Legislature(1997 - 1998)

02/24/1997 05:00 PM FSH

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
txt
        HOUSE SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON FISHERIES                                   
                  February 24, 1997                                            
                      5:00 p.m.                                                
                                                                               
                                                                               
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                
                                                                               
Representative Alan Austerman, Chairman                                        
Representative Scott Ogan                                                      
Representative Mark Hodgins                                                    
Representative Gene Kubina                                                     
                                                                               
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                 
                                                                               
Representative Ivan Ivan                                                       
                                                                               
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                             
                                                                               
PRESENTATION: Commercial Fisheries Entry Commission regarding                  
              recent IRS seizures.                                             
                                                                               
*HOUSE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 23                                                 
Relating to the seizure and sale of Alaska commercial fishing entry            
permits by the United States Internal Revenue Service.                         
                                                                               
     - MOVED HJR 23 OUT OF COMMITTEE                                           
                                                                               
*HOUSE BILL NO. 123                                                            
"An Act relating to the repeal of the termination date of the                  
Federal Tax Obligation Loan Program under the Commercial Fishing               
Loan Act; and providing for an effective date."                                
                                                                               
     - MOVED HB 123 OUT OF COMMITTEE                                           
                                                                               
(* First public hearing)                                                       
                                                                               
PREVIOUS ACTION                                                                
                                                                               
BILL:  HJR 23                                                                  
SHORT TITLE: SALE OF LTD ENTRY PERMITS BY IRS                                  
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) HUDSON, Grussendorf, Ivan                        
                                                                               
JRN-DATE     JRN-PG             ACTION                                         
02/17/97       373    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)                  
02/17/97       373    (H)   FSH, RESOURCES                                     
02/18/97       388    (H)   COSPONSOR(S): IVAN                                 
02/24/97              (H)   FSH AT  5:00 PM CAPITOL 124                        
                                                                               
BILL:  HB 123                                                                  
SHORT TITLE: TAX OBLIGATION LOAN PROGRAM                                       
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) IVAN, Hudson                                     
                                                                               
JRN-DATE     JRN-PG             ACTION                                         
02/10/97       294    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)                  
02/10/97       294    (H)   FISHERIES, RESOURCES                               
02/24/97              (H)   FSH AT  5:00 PM CAPITOL 124                        
02/24/97       455    (H)   COSPONSOR(S): HUDSON                               
                                                                               
WITNESS REGISTER                                                               
                                                                               
BRUCE TWOMLEY, Chairman                                                        
Commercial Fisheries Entry Commission                                          
Department of Fish and Game                                                    
8800 Glacier Highway                                                           
Juneau, Alaska  99801                                                          
Telephone:  (907) 789-6160                                                     
POSITION STATEMENT:  Commercial Fisheries Entry Commission                     
                     Presentation.                                             
                                                                               
REPRESENTATIVE BILL HUDSON                                                     
Alaska State Legislature                                                       
Capitol Building, 108                                                          
Juneau, Alaska  99801                                                          
Telephone:  (907) 465-3744                                                     
POSITION STATEMENT:  Presented HJR 23.                                         
                                                                               
JERRY MCCUNE, President                                                        
United Fishermen of Alaska                                                     
211 Fourth Street, Suite 112                                                   
Juneau, Alaska  99801                                                          
Telephone:  (907) 586-2820                                                     
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of HJR 23.                           
                                                                               
BERNICE HEYANO                                                                 
Bristol Bay Economic Development Corporation                                   
   Permit Brokerage                                                            
P.O. Box 964                                                                   
Dillingham, Alaska  99576                                                      
Telephone:  (907) 842-1994                                                     
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified on HJR 23.                                      
                                                                               
JERRY LIBOFF, manager                                                          
Native Village Corporation                                                     
P.O. Box 646                                                                   
Dillingham, Alaska  99576                                                      
Telephone:  (907) 842-22512                                                    
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of HJR 23 and HB 123.                
                                                                               
HJALMAR OLSON, fisherman                                                       
P.O. Box 456                                                                   
Dillingham, Alaska  99576                                                      
Telephone:  (907) 842-5532                                                     
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of HJR 23 and HB 123.                
                                                                               
CHERI SHAW, Executive Director                                                 
Cordova District Fishermen United                                              
P.O. Box 939                                                                   
Cordova, Alaska  99574                                                         
Telephone:  (907) 424-3447                                                     
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of HJR 23 and HB 123.                
                                                                               
JEFF STEPHENS                                                                  
United Fishermen Marketing Association                                         
103 Marine Way                                                                 
Kodiak, Alaska  99615                                                          
Telephone:  (907) 486-3453                                                     
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of HJR 23 and HB 123.                
                                                                               
MELANIE GUNDERSEN                                                              
Peninsular Marketing Association                                               
P.O. Box 248                                                                   
Sand Point, Alaska  99661                                                      
Telephone:  (907) 383-3600                                                     
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of HJR 23 and HB 123.                
                                                                               
TOM WRIGHT, Legislative Assistant to Representative Ivan Ivan                  
Alaska State Legislature                                                       
Capitol Building, Room 418                                                     
Juneau, Alaska  99801                                                          
Telephone:  (907) 465-3882                                                     
POSITION STATEMENT:  Presented HB 123.                                         
                                                                               
GREG WINEGAR, Juneau Lending Branch Manager                                    
Division of Investments                                                        
Department of Commerce and Economic Development                                
P.O. Box 34159                                                                 
Juneau, Alaska  99803                                                          
Telephone:  (907) 465-2510                                                     
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified on HB 123.                                      
                                                                               
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                               
                                                                               
TAPE 97-6, SIDE A                                                              
Number 001                                                                     
                                                                               
CHAIRMAN ALAN AUSTERMAN called the House Special Committee on                  
Fisheries meeting to order at 5:00 p.m.  Members present at the                
call to order were Representatives Austerman, Ogan and Hodgins.                
Representative Kubina arrived at 5:03 p.m.  Representative Ivan was            
absent.                                                                        
                                                                               
Number 017                                                                     
                                                                               
CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN announced the first order of business would be              
a presentation by the Commercial Fisheries Entry Commission (CFEC)             
regarding recent IRS seizures.                                                 
                                                                               
Number 089                                                                     
                                                                               
BRUCE TWOMLEY, Chairman, Commercial Fisheries Entry Commission,                
Department of Fish and Game, stated that the committee had asked               
for an overview of the problems that the commission has faced with             
the IRS and their efforts to seize and force the sale of limited               
entry permits.  He stated that limited entry permits were created              
by the legislature as a privilege with the intent to be revocable              
or changeable by the state and the legislature.  He stated that                
permits were originally awarded based on need.  He stated that                 
permits were made transferrable by the legislature in order to                 
empower fishermen and their families.  Fishermen and their families            
would be able to maintain their traditional access to the fisheries            
they most depended upon.  He stated that this has happened in the              
rural areas.  He stated that 78 percent of limited entry permits               
are held by Alaskans and more than half of those are held by rural             
Alaskans.  He stated that the limited entry system is working, for             
the most part, the way the legislature intended it to.  It secures             
access to the fisheries by Alaskans and preserves the state's                  
ability to manage fisheries for the benefit of the fishermen.  He              
stated that it gives fishermen a long term stake in the fishery                
which provides an incentive for them to observe conservation laws.             
He stated that it was intended that third parties could not come               
along and take the privileges away.  He stated that in 1992 the                
legislature affirmed the commission's ability to say no to third               
parties who attempted to take the privilege away from the                      
fishermen.                                                                     
                                                                               
Number 378                                                                     
                                                                               
MR. TWOMLEY stated that the IRS has taken a different view, since              
1981 the IRS has made efforts to seize and force the sale of                   
limited entry permits.  He stated that as a result only three cases            
came to the commission for a decision.                                         
                                                                               
Number 460                                                                     
                                                                               
CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN asked if this has been occurring for a ten year             
period of time.                                                                
                                                                               
Number 469                                                                     
                                                                               
MR. TWOMLEY replied that was correct for at least the last decade.             
                                                                               
Number 474                                                                     
                                                                               
CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN asked what year was it when the IRS actually                
seized its first permit.                                                       
                                                                               
Number 483                                                                     
                                                                               
MR. TWOMLEY replied that it was in 1981.                                       
                                                                               
Number 496                                                                     
                                                                               
MR. TWOMLEY stated that in two of the three cases the buyers of the            
sale were not eligible to receive entry permits and were denied the            
sale.  He stated that the third case was not approved because the              
transfer was flawed.  He stated that the IRS has not challenged the            
decision.  The state has made an effort to cooperate with the IRS.             
The IRS realized it was having a difficult time collecting taxes               
from fishermen and the IRS asked the state for help.  Through 1993             
the state requested from the IRS statistics to see how extensive               
the problem was.  He stated that the statistics showed that the                
bulk of the people owed well under $30,000.  He stated that the                
legislature established the Tax Obligation Loan Program as a result            
of the statistics.  He stated that after 1988 things began to go               
downhill as world markets affected the price of our salmon.  He                
stated that up until 1988 there were a number of fishermen who                 
planned on paying their taxes with the bonuses that came from their            
fisheries after the first of the year.  He stated that others                  
planned to pay this year's taxes with next year's earnings and                 
would get extensions to make that possible.  In 1998 when the                  
bottom fell out from underneath salmon some individuals fell into              
a trap that they had a hard time getting out of.  He stated that               
there are people in the state coming into the tax system for the               
first time, 40 percent of the filings were rejected and turned back            
because of having no record of the individuals involved.  Many of              
these people came from isolated fishing communities where                      
commercial fishing is the primary if not the only source of cash               
income to those communities.  He stated that these individuals fall            
under the category of non-filers and when they do file it often                
turns out that they owe little or no money to the IRS.  He stated              
that having recognized this problem the state and the IRS are                  
creating programs to help these individuals, some of the community             
development quota organizations have financed help for individual              
tax payers.                                                                    
                                                                               
Number 1100                                                                    
                                                                               
MR. TWOMLEY stated that in 1992 the commission was served with a               
summons from the IRS with the 2,000 people who had not filed taxes             
in 1992.  He stated that in 1993 and 1994 the total who had not                
filed was 684.  He stated that the cooperative efforts with the IRS            
has turned this problem around.  He stated that it came as a shock             
to the commission when the IRS gave the state two days of notice               
and put two limited entry permits on the block.  He stated that the            
permits had a market value of $30,000 and the IRS was prepared to              
sell them for as little as $3,375.  He stated that they wondered               
why the IRS was doing this and why there was not a more serious                
attempt to raise revenue.  People were told that the sale is                   
between the IRS and the state, the price is reduced because the IRS            
would like the individual to sue the state but in any event the IRS            
is prepared to pursue this issue to a resolution satisfactory to               
the IRS.  He stated that the sale was approved by the highest                  
levels of the IRS both in Seattle and in D.C.  He stated that a                
member of the public was told by an IRS revenue officer that if one            
permit was approved it would open the flood gates on permit                    
seizures and transfers.  He stated that there is a clear dichotomy             
happening within the IRS.  He stated that the cooperative measures             
have produced $4.5 million in revenues to the IRS that they                    
wouldn't have been able to collect otherwise.  He stated that there            
is an effort within the IRS to undermine and disadvantage the                  
state.  He stated that unfortunately Alaska has made commercial                
fishermen an easy target for the IRS, due to the close track that              
is kept on everything the commercial fisherman makes and what it is            
worth.                                                                         
                                                                               
Number 1316                                                                    
                                                                               
CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN asked what communication has he had with the IRS            
since the sales took place and does he feel that same attitude is              
present.                                                                       
                                                                               
Number 1335                                                                    
                                                                               
MR. TWOMLEY replied that they had a meeting last week in Anchorage             
and the response was mixed.  He stated that he expressed, to the               
IRS, the importance of completing the cooperative projects and that            
it is in no one's interest to undermine these projects as was done             
with the pre-Christmas sales.  He stated that the meeting ended                
without an agreement on that point.                                            
                                                                               
Number 1424                                                                    
                                                                               
CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN asked what could we as legislators do.                      
                                                                               
Number 1430                                                                    
                                                                               
MR. TWOMLEY replied that the HJR 23 would be an important step to              
be taken by the legislature and HB 123 would be a helpful                      
provision.                                                                     
                                                                               
Number 1458                                                                    
                                                                               
REPRESENTATIVE MARK HODGINS asked if there was a record of how many            
of the loans actually get paid back.                                           
                                                                               
Number 1475                                                                    
                                                                               
MR. TWOMLEY replied that he believed the state has that and it will            
be addressed as HJR 23 is presented.                                           
HJR 23 - SALE OF LTD ENTRY PERMITS BY IRS                                      
                                                                               
Number 1480                                                                    
                                                                               
CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN announced the next order of business would be               
HJR 23, "Relating to the seizure and sale of Alaska commercial                 
fishing entry permits by the United States Internal Revenue                    
Service."                                                                      
                                                                               
REPRESENTATIVE BILL HUDSON stated that he introduced HJR 23 after              
talking to members of the CFEC and others in the fishing industry.             
He stated that HJR 23 requests that the Alaska Congressional                   
Delegation use any means available to assure that the IRS will                 
collect past dues from income generated from the sale of fish and              
voluntary sale of limited entry permits.  He stated that HJR 23 is             
to ensure that the IRS complies with Federal Law to avoid                      
inflicting economic hardship on the tax payers and to protect                  
fishing privileges and the right of Alaska fishermen to work.  HJR
23 compliments Governor Knowles effort of appeal to the                        
congressional delegation to bring the pertinent members of the IRS             
to work together with us.  He stated that the CFEC had good                    
cooperation with some members of the IRS and now without the                   
cooperation it seems that economic harm could be the result to the             
permit regime.  He stated that the state of Alaska has established             
the limited entry permits as a means to manage the fisheries from              
over-harvesting and over-entry.  He stated that for the IRS to sell            
a permit worth $30,000 for $5,000, with threats to seize an                    
additional seven entry permits in the Dillingham area, is not                  
right.  He stated that it does appear that the IRS' actions are                
calculated.  He stated that he has no intention to relieve any                 
taxpayer of the taxes that they owe.  He stated that he would urge             
the committee to adopt HJR 23 so Congress could take some action.              
                                                                               
Number 1726                                                                    
                                                                               
REPRESENTATIVE SCOTT OGAN stated that he agreed that people should             
not have their livelihood taken away and it violates the spirit of             
the U.S. Constitution.  He stated that he would support HJR 23.                
                                                                               
Number 1763                                                                    
                                                                               
JERRY MCCUNE, President, United Fishermen of Alaska, stated that               
United Fishermen of Alaska support HJR 23, to keep the permit                  
system intact.  He stated that the IRS wants to get a permit so                
they can go after other permits.  He stated that they will end up              
selling a $150,000 permit for a $10,000 tax obligation.  He stated             
that every fishermen he has talked to across the state supports HJR
23.                                                                            
                                                                               
Number 1816                                                                    
                                                                               
BERNICE HEYANO, Bristol Bay Economic Development Corporation Permit            
Brokerage, testified via teleconference from Dillingham, that this             
is not a program that hands out money to individuals who owe back              
taxes, it is a loan program where individuals have to have a permit            
in order to get the loan.  She stated that rural individuals are               
not able to get commercial loans to pay their back taxes because               
they lack collateral.  She stated that the loan program has                    
benefitted Bristol Bay in numerous ways by helping people if they              
can't pay their taxes.                                                         
                                                                               
JERRY LIBOFF, manager, Native Village Corporation, testified via               
teleconference from Dillingham, that he is a tax practitioner and              
a commercial fisherman.  He stated that he is in favor of HJR 23               
and HB 123.  Both of these will be positive tools toward getting               
the IRS problems worked out so the permits will remain in the                  
villages.  He stated that he has helped 100 people in Bristol Bay              
to save their permits from loss and helped 10 people obtain the tax            
obligation loan funds to get the IRS off their back.                           
                                                                               
Number 1963                                                                    
                                                                               
HJALMAR OLSON, fisherman, testified via teleconference from                    
Dillingham, in support of HJR 23 and HB 123.                                   
                                                                               
Number 2000                                                                    
                                                                               
CHERI SHAW, Executive Director, Cordova District Fishermen United,             
testified via teleconference from Cordova, in support of HJR 23 and            
HB 123.  She stated that since the Tax Obligation Loan Program came            
into being it has been successful in enabling commercial fishermen             
to pay tax obligations.  She stated that extending this program                
could only benefit the state and the commercial fishing industry.              
She stated that the CFEC will be able to continue in their efforts             
to bring commercial fishermen in compliance with their federal tax             
obligation.  She stated her husband was a recipient of the Federal             
Tax Obligation Loan Program and has been a fishermen representative            
at the Alaska Symposium with the IRS.  She stated that she was                 
appalled that the IRS had tried to seize and sell two permits prior            
to the Christmas holiday.  She stated that the symposium discussed             
the effort to avoid such drastic measures and to allow the CFEC to             
intervene to try and rectify the problem by suggesting solutions.              
She stated that it was reprehensible that the IRS could turn its               
back on the agreements that were made.                                         
                                                                               
Number 2112                                                                    
                                                                               
JEFF STEPHENS, United Fishermen Marketing Association, testified               
via teleconference from Kodiak, in support of HJR 23 and HB 123.               
He stated that it is important to reaffirm Alaska's intention to               
work with the IRS in a positive manner to help collect past taxes              
while at the same time allowing commercial harvesters to continue              
their commercial endeavors so they can continue in the commercial              
enterprize.                                                                    
                                                                               
Number 2207                                                                    
                                                                               
MELANIE GUNDERSEN, Peninsular Marketing Association, testified via             
teleconference from Sand Point, in support of HJR 23 and HB 123.               
She stated that it would be good if Halibut Individual Fish Quotas             
(IFQ) could be protected from seizure from the IRS.                            
                                                                               
Number 2250                                                                    
                                                                               
REPRESENTATIVE GENE KUBINA made a motion to move HJR 23, with                  
individual recommendations and zero fiscal notes.                              
                                                                               
Number 2259                                                                    
                                                                               
CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN asked if there was an objection, hearing none               
HJR 23 was moved out of the House Special Committee on Fisheries.              
HB 123 - TAX OBLIGATION LOAN PROGRAM                                           
                                                                               
Number 2263                                                                    
                                                                               
CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN announced the next order of business to be HB
123, "An Act relating to the repeal of the termination date of the             
Federal Tax Obligation Loan Program under the Commercial Fishing               
Loan Act; and providing for an effective date" and stated that Tom             
Wright will present the bill to the committee.                                 
                                                                               
Number 2272                                                                    
                                                                               
TOM WRIGHT, Legislative Assistant to Representative Ivan Ivan,                 
stated that Representative Ivan sent a letter to Senator Stevens,              
Senator Markowski and Representative Young, in December after the              
sale of the permit by the IRS, to protest the action.  He stated               
that HB 123 repeals Sections 2, 9, 10 of SB 251.  He stated that it            
repeals the termination date of the Tax Obligation Loan Program.               
                                                                               
Number 2386                                                                    
                                                                               
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN asked it there were representatives from the               
Division of Investments and if they could come forward.                        
                                                                               
Number 2394                                                                    
                                                                               
GREG WINEGAR, Juneau Lending Branch Manager, Division of                       
Investments, Department of Commerce and Economic Development,                  
stated that the division administers the Tax Obligation Loan                   
Program as a part of the commercial fishing revolving loan fund.               
He stated that the program came into existence because there were              
a lot of commercial fishermen having difficulties with the IRS.  He            
stated that the program has helped 220 individuals get squared away            
with the IRS and resulted in $4.7 million being collected.  He                 
stated that there continues to be a need for the program although              
to a lesser extent.  He stated that about one-third of the loans               
are delinquent at this time however, most of them have an extension            
and are secured loans.  He stated that it is a revolving fund that             
loans out the money and the fund has not recently received any                 
general fund money.  He stated that there is a zero fiscal note.               
                                                                               
TAPE 97-6, SIDE B                                                              
Number 010                                                                     
                                                                               
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN asked what the ratio of collateral is.                     
                                                                               
Number 022                                                                     
                                                                               
MR. WINEGAR replied that it varies depending on the tax bill and               
the amount that is borrowed but in no case would it exceed 90                  
percent, so there is always a 10 percent cushion and in many cases             
it is much greater than that.                                                  
                                                                               
Number 028                                                                     
                                                                               
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN asked it he could clarify that, 90 percent of              
what to get a 10 percent cushion.                                              
                                                                               
Number 041                                                                     
                                                                               
MR. WINEGAR replied if you had a $10,000 permit the most that we               
would be able to loan by law would be $9,000, so there would be a              
ten percent cushion.                                                           
                                                                               
Number 044                                                                     
                                                                               
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN stated that you are basically loaning by the               
value of the permit.  He asked if the permits are holding their                
value.                                                                         
                                                                               
Number 056                                                                     
                                                                               
MR. WINEGAR stated that most of them are holding their value while             
some of them are declining, but in many cases the amount of the                
taxes owed is far less then the value of the permit.                           
                                                                               
Number 067                                                                     
                                                                               
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN stated that 10 percent does not seem to be much            
of a cushion and wondered if this would undermine the value of the             
revolving fund.                                                                
                                                                               
Number 090                                                                     
                                                                               
MR. WINEGAR responded that in most of the cases there is plenty of             
collateral.                                                                    
                                                                               
Number 108                                                                     
                                                                               
REPRESENTATIVE MARK HODGINS asked what the loan portfolio size is.             
                                                                               
Number 118                                                                     
                                                                               
MR. WINEGAR responded that right now the total portfolio is about              
$75 million.  He stated that through the life of the program they              
have loaned out about $300 million.                                            
                                                                               
Number 125                                                                     
                                                                               
REPRESENTATIVE HODGINS asked if there was interest income that                 
helps to turn money for that fund.                                             
                                                                               
Number 138                                                                     
                                                                               
MR. WINEGAR stated that it is completely revolving and has been                
since 1985, so all of the funds that have been used to cover the               
program and to make loans have come out of those repayments to the             
fund.                                                                          
                                                                               
Number 143                                                                     
                                                                               
REPRESENTATIVE HODGINS asked if they would take a fishing permit if            
a loan was not paid back.                                                      
                                                                               
Number 152                                                                     
                                                                               
MR. WINEGAR responded that it could happen through this program,               
however, it is a very last resort.  He stated that there is a lot              
of latitude to work with individuals.                                          
                                                                               
Number 168                                                                     
                                                                               
REPRESENTATIVE HODGINS stated that it seems that we would be                   
transferring ownership, instead of the IRS getting the permits the             
state would be getting the permits.                                            
                                                                               
Number 173                                                                     
                                                                               
MR. WINEGAR stated that there could be that situation but the                  
division has a much different interest in how the program is run.              
                                                                               
Number 177                                                                     
                                                                               
CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN stated that the division has not had a default              
because they have always been able to work it out.  He stated that             
if there is a default he would rather it be the state of Alaska                
that winds up with the permit rather than the IRS.                             
                                                                               
Number 188                                                                     
                                                                               
REPRESENTATIVE KUBINA stated that he would like to echo that.  He              
stated that it is a program that is paying for itself, it has a                
zero fiscal note and the division would not loan money if they were            
going to lose it.  He stated that he was astounded with the way the            
IRS has worked with the state and with the people.                             
                                                                               
Number 227                                                                     
                                                                               
REPRESENTATIVE KUBINA made a motion to move HB 123, with individual            
recommendations and zero fiscal notes.                                         
                                                                               
Number 230                                                                     
                                                                               
CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN asked if there was an objection.                            
                                                                               
Number 234                                                                     
                                                                               
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN stated that he did not have an objection but he            
wanted to state that he is worried that we are further enabling                
people to not take care to pay their taxes because the state will              
help them out.                                                                 
                                                                               
Number 264                                                                     
                                                                               
REPRESENTATIVE HODGINS stated that there are a lot of people in the            
rural areas that do not realize there is an IRS so we need to help             
these people by continuing on with the program.                                
                                                                               
Number 305                                                                     
                                                                               
CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN stated that this program has been around for                
quite some time and we are not trying to create something new and              
the default rate is not high.                                                  
                                                                               
Number 330                                                                     
                                                                               
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN stated that there could be a high default rate             
but since they have deferred loans they are not calling defaults.              
                                                                               
Number 348                                                                     
                                                                               
CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN asked if there was an objection.  Hearing none              
HB 123 was moved out of the House Special Committee on Fisheries.              
ADJOURNMENT                                                                    
                                                                               
Number 359                                                                     
                                                                               
CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN adjourned the House Special Committee on                    
Fisheries at 5:56 p.m.                                                         

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