Legislature(2009 - 2010)HOUSE FINANCE 519
04/05/2010 09:00 AM House FINANCE
| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| HB190 | |
| HB361 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| + | HB 190 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | HB 361 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | TELECONFERENCED |
HOUSE FINANCE COMMITTEE
April 5, 2010
9:05 a.m.
9:05:36 AM
CALL TO ORDER
Co-Chair Stoltze called the House Finance Committee meeting
to order at 9:05 a.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Mike Hawker, Co-Chair
Representative Bill Stoltze, Co-Chair
Representative Bill Thomas Jr., Vice-Chair
Representative Allan Austerman
Representative Mike Doogan
Representative Anna Fairclough
Representative Neal Foster
Representative Mike Kelly
Representative Woodie Salmon
MEMBERS ABSENT
Representative Les Gara
Representative Reggie Joule
ALSO PRESENT
Kim Skipper, Staff, Representative Anna Fairclough,
Sponsor; Mike Barnhill, Senior Assistant Attorney General,
Department of Law; George W. Brown, Pediatrician, Juneau;
Panu Lucier, Executive Director, Alaska Children's
Trust/Friends of Alaska Children's Trust; Alison Elgee,
Assistant Commissioner, Finance and Management Services,
Department of Health and Social Services; Crystal Koeneman,
Staff, Representative Anna Fairclough, Sponsor; Sue
Stancliff, Special Assistant, Office of the Commissioner,
Department of Public Safety; Audie Holloway, Director,
Division of Alaska State Troopers, Department of Public
Safety.
PRESENT VIA TELECONFERENCE
Diane Kaplan, Member, Alaska Children's Trust Board and
President, Rasmuson Foundation, Anchorage; Mike O'Hare,
Deputy Director, Division of Homeland Security/Emergency
Management, Department of Military and Veterans Affairs;
Chris Sherwin, Vice-President of Advocacy, Pacific Mountain
Affiliate, American Heart Association.
SUMMARY
HB 190 CHILDREN'S TRUST GRANT FOR ENDOWMENT
CSHB 190(FIN) was REPORTED out of Committee with
a "do pass" recommendation and with new zero note
by the Department of Commerce, Community and
Economic Development, new zero note by Department
of Revenue, and new zero note by the House
Finance Committee for the Department of Health
and Social Services.
HB 361 CPR TRAINING FOR 911 DISPATCHERS
HB 361 was HEARD and HELD in Committee for
further consideration.
HOUSE BILL NO. 190
"An Act privatizing the Alaska children's trust as a
separate endowment fund; providing for an
administrator for the assets of the former trust;
establishing conditions for a grant of the balance of
the former Alaska children's trust; designating
certain receipts as available for grants to the
trust's successor; and providing for an effective
date."
9:05:51 AM
Representative Fairclough MOVED to ADOPT Work Draft CSHB
190 (FIN), (26-LS0502\N, Mischel, 4/2/10, copy on file) as
a working document before the committee.
Co-Chair Stoltze OBJECTED for DISCUSSION.
Representative Fairclough provided history of the
legislation. The Alaska Children's Trust (ACT) and the
Friends of the Alaska Children's Trust (FACT) boards had
come to her office 18 months prior with challenges they had
been having, including the inability to track private
donations and difficulty drawing matching money to the
trust. The boards resolved to privatize the trust and
brought the idea to the legislature. In the middle of the
2009 legislative session, the Alaska Supreme Court ruled in
the University Land Grant case that the state had given
appropriation powers away to the university. The
administration decided to oppose the bill because of the
ruling. Attorneys hired by FACT as well as Legislative
Legal Services had been asked to interpret the ruling.
9:09:17 AM
Representative Fairclough continued that in mid-March
[2010], the administration finalized its interpretation of
the ruling and drafted HB 190. She emphasized that the
legislation would not privatize the trust, but would create
a grant account within the general fund. She stated that
the proposal would accomplish approximately 70 percent of
the original request by the trust, but leaves the
legislature's power of appropriation. It would also require
the state to account for private donations.
Representative Fairclough concluded that the trust board
believed HB 190 would help them do the work of preventing
child abuse. She stated that she had relied extensively on
legal counsel and was confident that the provision could be
legally defended.
KIM SKIPPER, STAFF, REPRESENTATIVE ANNA FAIRCLOUGH,
SPONSOR, reviewed the sectional analysis (copy on file):
· Section 1, 2, 3. Amends AS 18.50.225(d); 18.50.272(e);
28.10.421(d)(14). Allows the legislature to
appropriate funds generated from birth certificates
and heirloom marriage certificates suitable for
display; and Alaska children's trust license plates to
the Alaska children's trust grant account.
· Section 4. Amends AS 36.30.990(1). Exempts the Alaska
children's trust and the Alaska Children's Trust Board
from the State Procurement Code.
· Section 5. Amends AS 37.14.200(b). Defines the assets
of the trust to include appropriations, donations to
the trust, and income earned on investments of trust
assets.
· Section 6. Repeals and reenacted AS 37.14.200(c).
Provides for the commissioner of revenue to manage the
trust as an endowment.
· Section 7. Amends AS 37.14.200 by adding new
subsections AS 37.14.200(d)(e)(f)(g). The commissioner
of revenue shall provide reports to the board on
condition and investment of the trust. Allows the
legislature to annually appropriate 5% of the market
value, as calculated on a three year average, of the
Alaska Children's Trust to the grant account. Allows
the legislature to appropriate from the principal of
the trust up to $150,000 for administrative expenses
of the board; and appropriate expenses related to the
commissioner of revenue's management of trust assets.
Explains that this section does not create a dedicated
fund.
· Section 8. Amends AS 37.14 by adding new section AS
37.14.205. Creates an Alaska children's trust grant
account as an account in the general fund and allows
the legislature to appropriate funds from the trust to
the grant account. Defines uses of the grant account
to include making grants; obtaining private and
federal donations; solicit contributions, gifts and
bequests for the trust and grant accounts; and expend
private restricted-use donations from the grant
account without further appropriation.
· Section 9. Amends AS 37.14.225. Defines the membership
of the ACT board, and their qualifications.
· Section 10. Amends AS 37.14.230. Describes the powers
and duties of the ACT board, to include awarding
grants, maintaining records of all donations to the
trust and grant account; apply for and use funds from
grant account to obtain private and federal grants for
child abuse & neglect prevention programs; solicit
donations to the grant account; account for interest
earned on private restricted donations not fully
expended.
· Section 11. Amends AS 37.14.230 by adding new
subsection AS 37.14.230(b). Allows the Alaska
Children's Trust Board to enter into joint arrangement
with a private non-profit entity or entities for
grant-making and fundraising without delegating its
duties or authority.
· Section 12. Amends AS 37.14 by adding new section AS
37.14.235. Provides support staff from the Department
of Health & Social Services.
· Section 13. Amends AS 37.14 by adding new section AS
37.14.245. Allows the Alaska Children's Trust Board to
adopt regulations not subject to the requirements of
the Administrative Procedures Act.
· Section 14. Amends AS 37.14.270 is repealed and
reenacted. Defines board, grant account, private
restricted-use donation, and trust.
· Section 15. Amends AS 37.14.210, 37.14.240, 37.14.250,
and 37.14.260 are repealed.
9:14:48 AM
Representative Doogan referenced Sections 1, 2, and 3 and
asked how much money the legislature would appropriate in
an average year. Representative Fairclough replied around
$40,000.
Representative Doogan referenced Section 4 and asked why
the state would be exempted from the State Procurement
Code. Representative Fairclough answered that part of the
problem has been limited grants; the procurement code has
caused money donated for child abuse prevention to be spent
to meet federal requirements. The provision would
streamline an accountability process consistent with state
law but not necessarily matching federal requirements.
Representative Doogan turned to Section 9 and asked whether
in the past the board had more private citizens and fewer
commissioners. Ms. Skipper responded that the board would
stay the same at seven members. Representative Doogan asked
whether the ratio of private members and commissioners
would be the same as before. Ms. Skipper replied in the
affirmative.
Representative Doogan queried changes related to adopting
regulations not subject to the Administrative Procedures
Act (APA) proposed in Section 13. Representative Fairclough
replied that federal requirements had set a high bar
through the APA, which was not necessary for smaller
amounts.
Representative Doogan asked for details about what HB 160
would repeal [Section 15].
9:18:59 AM
MIKE BARNHILL, SENIOR ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL,
DEPARTMENT OF LAW, responded to the question of exempting
the trust from the APA. He explained that the context was
that the people from ACT and Representative Fairclough's
office had requested legal opinion about possible
solutions. He stated that short of fully privatizing the
trust, the Department of Law (DOL) had offered various
solutions already existing in statute for other entities,
such as full exemption from the Alaska Procurement Code and
the APA. He opined that it was purely a policy call. The
proposal was an attempt to free the trust from bureaucratic
obstacles to fulfilling its mission. He added that the
language came from statute related to the Permanent Fund.
Mr. Barnhill provided an overview of the the sections that
would be repealed by HB 190:
· AS 37.14.210 - Sets out the powers and duties of the
Commissioner of Revenue. The section would be replaced
with language in Sections 6 and 7. The commissioner's
investment duties would be aligned with the investment
duties spelled out in AS 37.10.071, the fall provision
for management of state funds.
· AS 37.14.240 - A provision governing fund utilization.
The section would be replaced with language about an
annual appropriation of 5 percent to the grant account
to be expended by the board for child abuse and
neglect prevention programs.
· AS 37.14.250 - Existing grant statute. The section was
viewed as particularly burdensome by the board; it
would be replaced by board authority to expend from
the grant account for purposes of grant-making in the
area of child abuse and neglect prevention, as well as
for additional fund-raising.
· AS 37.14.260 - Eligibility section. There would be no
corresponding section in the CS; eligibility would be
determined by the board.
9:23:05 AM
Representative Doogan questioned whether the privatization
route did not work because state funds could not be
privatized. Mr. Barnhill responded in the affirmative; in
the wake of the university land case, the department
believed that the Alaska Supreme Court would disapprove of
any attempt to privatize state funds.
Co-Chair Hawker thought "privatize" was a vague word; he
asked whether there would be a problem with the legislature
deciding to appropriate the money currently in the account
to another organization as a named recipient grant. Mr.
Barnhill replied that the last versions of the bill had
done that by appropriating the entire balance of the trust
account to a private entity. He stressed that a critical
distinction made by DOL was between appropriating for
expenditure and appropriating for management as a private
endowment. He detailed that the Alaska Supreme Court
identified two objectives as the purpose of the prohibition
against dedicated funds. One objective is to preserve the
flexibility of the legislature to appropriate funds. The
second objective is to prevent the legislature from
abdicating its responsibility for appropriating funds. The
department thought that both objectives would be defeated
by taking a pot of money and putting it into private hands.
For that reason, even though the legislature would be
appropriating to a named recipient and exercising
appropriation power, DOL thought that ultimately the
legislature's flexibility to further designate where the
funds should go would be defeated, and recommended against
it.
Co-Chair Hawker asked whether the legislature would be able
to appropriate all or part of the state funds to a named
recipient grant for whatever purpose without the
constraints. Mr. Barnhill responded that the legislature
would be able to do that as long as the funds would be
expended for the purpose of child abuse and neglect
prevention. However, they did not recommend doing so for
the purpose of managing an endowment.
9:26:48 AM
DIANE KAPLAN, MEMBER, ALASKA CHILDREN'S TRUST BOARD and
PRESIDENT, RASMUSON FOUNDATION, ANCHORAGE (via
teleconference) testified in support of HB 190. She noted
that she was also a former member of the FACT board. She
emphasized the importance of the issue of child abuse and
neglect in Alaska; ACT and FACT wanted Alaska to be the
safest place for children to grow up, not the least safe
place. She believed that the current structure of the trust
made it difficult for ACT or FACT to be effective in their
work. In particular, there were issues around raising money
when the fundraisers could not ensure that the intent of
donors would be met, the inability to raise money for
current initiatives and projects because of the structure
of the legislation, and the considerable administrative
burden related to being subject to Department of Health and
Social Services regulations. She noted that the
commissioners of the Departments of Education and Early
Development and Health and Social Services sit as two of
the seven members of the [ACT] board; the commissioners
have consistently been in favor of moving towards a
public/private partnership to operate the program.
Ms. Kaplan referred to varied legal opinions, including the
possibility of lawsuits regarding the constitutionality of
moving the assets. She believed HB 190 took a mid-way
approach of dealing with the most pressing issues. She
listed examples of fund-raising efforts that had been
thwarted because donors could not be assured that donations
were going where they intended them to go. She noted that
when the Attorney General's Office investigated (in
reviewing the legislation), they found that no records of
any previous donations to the trust could be located
anywhere in state government. She pointed out that the five
fund-raisers on the FACT board take an oath to not engage
in unethical fund-raising; she noted that the fund-raisers
supported the legislation.
Ms. Kaplan testified that the trustees have been successful
in receiving federal grant money in certain years because
of the way the fund was structured; those are the only
monies that have been available to give out in the form of
grants. The grant-making process as it exists in the
department makes it impossible to fund the small,
neighborhood grass-roots organizations that are doing the
day-to-day work of addressing the issues on a community
level. She noted that currently, the chance of obtaining a
grant is almost nothing, which is not what the trust
intended. She emphasized that the legislation would set up
a private partnership with assets managed by a governor-
appointed private board that would deal with current
challenges around fundraising and grant-making.
9:33:03 AM
Co-Chair Hawker referred to earlier conversations regarding
the trust's inability to raise money from the public
because the money would go to the state. He talked about
earlier versions of the legislation that were structured so
that receipt of public funds would be outside the state. He
stated concerns about creating a grant account within state
funds and asking the public to contribute into a state-
managed account. He questioned her feeling about the
situation. Ms. Kaplan responded that ACT had been hoping
for more; she called the proposal "half a loaf," but felt
the legislation would be better than the current situation.
She stated that the trustees were very frustrated. At the
February 2010 meeting, the trustees had no idea of how much
money was available for 2010 grants. She opined that the
state has not been a diligent steward of the funds.
Ms. Kaplan admitted that trust would rather move the assets
out of the state. She opined that she would do it anyway
and let it be challenged. However, given the threat of a
constitutional challenge, the trust felt the legislation
would improve the situation greatly in terms of being able
to segregate the funds in a grant account, moving more to a
percent of market value structure, and allowing donations
to be received for current activities and no go directly
into the corpus where they cannot be tracked. She suggested
trying out the proposal. She believed the intent of those
involved was good.
9:37:11 AM
Co-Chair Hawker agreed with acting and allowing settlement
through litigation. He was not comfortable that the
provision would accomplish as much as he wanted. Ms. Kaplan
responded that FACT had exhausted resources on lobbyists
for the past three years to get previous versions of the
legislation passed. She commended Representative
Fairclough's efforts to get some positive change through.
Representative Doogan asked whether there would be more
flexibility and ability to fund-raise if the trust were
privatized. Ms. Kaplan answered that the situation varies
from year to year; the trustees have no idea how much money
will be available because only the income [interest on the
principal] is available to be spent. There is no current
percent of market value. She emphasized that year-by-year
grants were not a dependable way to address the serious
problems of child abuse in the state. However, the
legislation would provide some level of regular funding for
multi-year sustained initiatives that were working. Having
a grants account would free the trustees to be a lot more
pro-active and sensible in administration of the funds. She
pointed out that most children's trusts get funding from
the state, but that is not the case in Alaska. Most other
children's trusts get federal funding available to every
state for child abuse prevention; in Alaska, every dollar
going into the trust annually is contributed by
individuals. The legislation would at least free up the
grants account to be managed more flexibly.
9:42:20 AM
Representative Doogan was concerned that there might be a
small annual stream of funding, but that the trust would be
locked into the state system. He wondered whether the trust
could be set up on its own with the currently available
assets so that it could raise its own money. Ms. Kaplan
responded that the trustees had requested just that.
However, possible constitutional issues have continued to
kill legislation [attempting to do so]. The trust did not
want to go through that yet another year and hoped the bill
would provide some partial relief. She stated that there
would be strong support from the trustees to do what
Representative Doogan described.
Representative Fairclough noted that there was currently
$10 million in the Alaska Children's Trust; Ms. Kaplan had
been referring to any interest off that account as the
amount available to be spent. The amount fluctuates based
on earnings and costs. As an example, she referred to a
document from the trust showing that in FY 08, the trustees
had awarded $550,000 in grants. In FY 2009, the trust was
only able to award $186,799. She emphasized that the large
variance in available funds made it difficult to plan.
Representative Fairclough referred to a $170,000 Department
of Health and Social Services (DHSS) fiscal note for
management of the trust. She noted that Ms. Kaplan had
testified that the state contributes nothing. She queried
current administrative support levels for ACT and FACT. Ms.
Kaplan responded that at one time, the department had one
full-time employee (that later turned into a half-time
employee) to administer the trust; for a period of time
there was no staff. She referred to a meeting at which
there was no staff to provide the information the trust
needed to make decisions. The trust had attempted to hire
someone through state government, but was unable to do so;
they then requested hiring a staff member outside of state
government, which was finally allowed. An annual operating
grant is made out of principal of the trust (allowed under
law for amounts under $150,000) to the Foraker Group to
employ a person (Panu Lucier) as the executive director of
both ACT and FACT. There are grant administrators within
the departments who issue grant agreements and receive
reports. She was not aware of any employee of the
department that was connected with the trust other than the
commissioner.
9:48:27 AM
Ms. Kaplan referenced the $550,000 awarded [in FY 08]; she
believed the vast majority of the funds were federal
earmarks from Senator Stevens. The funds would end in June,
so there was no expectation of having them in the next
year.
Representative Fairclough noted that DHSS was asking for
two staff for grant support for the trust. She queried the
support needed from the state. Ms. Kaplan responded that
administration would take up 40 percent of available
funding. She pointed out that a typical expectation for
administration would be 8 or 10 percent.
Representative Kelly had concerns about the two additional
state employees.
GEORGE W. BROWN, PEDIATRICIAN, JUNEAU, spoke in support of
HB 190 as going in the direction of providing more
protection for children. He did not think child abuse in
Alaska was as bad as it had been 40 years ago. For example,
deaths due to neglect and abuse have been reduced 9 or 10
times. He felt there was still a long way to go. He thought
the situation was complicated by talk about money and who
controls it. He stressed that prevention is also is at
least that complicated, and requires a change in attitude
on the part of society. He believed there should be respect
for all children. He thought the bill was good because it
placed responsibility on both the public and the private
sectors.
Dr. Brown spoke of a conversation with the director of the
children's trust fund in Wisconsin, which has had a public
and private partnership that has worked well for some time.
He commended work done and encouraged staying the course.
PANU LUCIER, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, ALASKA CHILDREN'S
TRUST/FRIENDS OF ALASKA CHILDREN'S TRUST, spoke in support
of HB 190. She reported professional experience. She
believed the legislation was a good compromise that would
allow the trust to get out of the state procurement
process. She described challenges due to caps and irregular
grant funding.
9:56:48 AM
Ms. Lucier emphasized that for the second year in a row,
the trust had only $75,000 available for requests for
proposals (RFPs). She reported the difficultly of operating
with such a small amount, especially since ACT had the goal
of making Alaska the safest state for children by 2030. She
emphasized that the goal could not be reached at the
current rate of funding. She referred to programs for
families and stressed that changes needed to take place at
the family and community level. She stated concerns about
state agencies and about using general funds. She hoped
that the funds would not be used by the legislature for
other purposes.
Co-Chair Stoltze noted that the greater fear would be the
administration spending the funds.
Representative Austerman asked how the executive director
position was funded. Ms. Lucier responded that she was not
a state employee; the position was funded by the the
Foraker Group, but she reports to the ACT and FACT boards.
Vice-Chair Thomas queried the ultimate goal of the bill and
what would make it work fully. He wanted to understand the
compromises made.
10:01:15 AM
Ms. Lucier responded that the goal of HB 190 was to address
constitutionality concerns. The compromise bill would allow
the trust to accomplish many of the things it hoped to do.
She added that privatization was the ultimate goal.
ALISON ELGEE, ASSISTANT COMMISSIONER, FINANCE AND
MANAGEMENT SERVICES, DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND SOCIAL
SERVICES, reviewed the thinking behind the fiscal note. She
explained that the fiscal note developed by the department
anticipated that the full management of the activities of
ACT would revert to DHSS. Therefore, the $150,000 grant
currently made from the principal to the Foraker Group for
support of the trust would be replaced with in-house staff.
She stated that the department did not pre-suppose the
legislature's desire in terms of funding the personnel with
the principal grant (although that is allowed in the
legislation); it has been represented as general funds,
recognizing the limitations of the trust and the options
available to the committee as to how it should be funded.
Representative Kelly queried the role of the department
related to the executive director position. Ms. Elgee
responded that the fiscal note would [fund the position].
Co-Chair Hawker noted that the fiscal note was sponsored by
the Rules Committee at the request of the governor, which
needed to be corrected. Ms. Elgee agreed.
Co-Chair Hawker asked whether the other money was soon to
be appropriated in the FY 11 operating budget. Ms. Elgee
answered that the department would appropriate the trust
revenue available for grant funding; she did not know the
status of the principal funding of the grant to the Foraker
Group. She offered to check.
Co-Chair Hawker referred to a previous fiscal note that
zeroed out the allocation within Children's Services and
Children's Trust Programs ($13,000 in travel, $100,000 in
services and commodities, and $435,000 in grants). He asked
where the $150,000 to the Foraker Group came from. Ms.
Elgee offered to get more information.
Co-Chair Hawker believed there needed to be an offset
somewhere. He thought there should be a way to do it
without adding the two employees. Ms. Elgee reported that
DHSS misunderstood the intent in Section 12, which stated
that the department would provide staff to the board.
10:06:58 AM AT EASE
10:07:15 AM RECONVENED
Co-Chair Stoltze WITHDREW his OBJECTION to adopting the
work draft. There being NO further OBJECTION, CSHB 190
(FIN), (26-LS0502\N, Mischel, 4/2/10, copy on file) was
ADOPTED.
Representative Fairclough asked whether eliminating Section
12 would create any technical difficulty. Mr. Barnhill
responded that it would not.
Representative Fairclough informed the committee that the
intent was not to name DHSS as the source of staff support;
the intent was to allow the executive director to maintain
the relationship with the Foraker Group. She recommended
eliminating the section.
Representative Fairclough addressed questions regarding the
bill being only half an answer to the challenges faced by
the trust. She stated that HB 190 was the best compromise
given battling legal opinions and would enable the state of
Alaska to defend its position should an action be brought
against it. She acknowledged that the bill was not full
privatization, but she intended to propose that the
committee move a portion of the fund (as much as $10
million or as little as zero). The money could be attached
to the bill; it could be brought up through the capital
budget. She wanted the full amount to be privatized in
order to help children. She emphasized that HB 190 was the
best way to take a first step and encouraged support.
Representative Fairclough summarized the challenges:
· The trust and people who have tried to provide
additional funding for the trust have received
unpredictable funding from the grant line.
· The Department of Revenue has sometimes placed the
assets in more risky investments (from the Alaska
Children's Trust perspective) inside the the Permanent
Fund allocation; the trust gets lost in the mix.
· There are multi-faceted accounting problems, including
being unable to account for donations in the private
sector; the bill would fix that. The bill would not
fix unworkable and antiquated records; the Foraker
Group, DHSS, and the ACT and FACT boards also continue
to have problems with the issue.
· Local communities cannot compete for smaller grants.
· ACT and FACT boards want multi-year initiative
strategies in local communities to reduce child abuse;
state bureaucracy is holding this up.
Representative Fairclough argued that HB 190 would be a
"gigantic" step towards relieving the problems with access
to funds.
10:13:11 AM
Representative Fairclough MOVED to ADOPT conceptual
Amendment 1:
Page 6, lines 19-21:
Section 12: Delete whole section
Co-Chair Stoltze OBJECTED for discussion. He noted that
eliminating the section would not eliminate the department
from assisting the effort.
Representative Doogan summarized his understanding that the
proposal would eliminate the two state employee positions;
there would then be one employee working through a grant
that would go through the Foraker Group. He asked how
accounting problems described would be solved by the
amendment. Representative Fairclough replied that a grant
fund would be created that would move money directly to
FACT; in the end the ACT board could establish what
previous versions have had: a singular appropriation so
they know where the money goes to. All the money would be
spent out and gone from the state.
Representative Doogan stated concerns because as it was
currently set up, the money was still state money. He
thought that there should be a way for accounting for the
money if it was going to go through the described process.
10:16:28 AM
Representative Kelly pointed to page 3, lines 13 and
continuing, related to the Commissioner of Revenue solving
the discussion about poor investment practices and so on.
He asked whether that would stay in and whether there would
a zero fiscal note for the management of the program.
Representative Fairclough responded yes.
Co-Chair Stoltze WITHDREW his OBJECTION. There being NO
further OBJECTION, conceptual Amendment 1 was ADOPTED.
Co-Chair Hawker directed the committee aide to prepare a
zero fiscal note for the bill in lieu of the DHSS fiscal
note.
Representative Austerman queried the status of the negative
fiscal note by DHSS. Co-Chair Stoltze replied that the note
was for a previous version of the bill that was not
adopted.
Representative Fairclough MOVED to report CSHB 190(FIN) out
of Committee with individual recommendations and the
accompanying fiscal notes.
CSHB 190(FIN) was REPORTED out of Committee with a "do
pass" recommendation and with new zero note by the
Department of Commerce, Community and Economic Development,
new zero note by Department of Revenue, and new zero note
by the House Finance Committee for the Department of Health
and Social Services.
HOUSE BILL NO. 361
"An Act requiring 911 dispatchers to be trained in
cardiopulmonary resuscitation; and providing for an
effective date."
10:20:06 AM
Representative Fairclough informed the committee that
Alaska was one of the few states that do not require
Cardiopulmonary Resuscitation (CPR) training through
statute for all 911 dispatchers. She believed the training
should be required. She noted that the issue was complex.
CRYSTAL KOENEMAN, STAFF, REPRESENTATIVE ANNA FAIRCLOUGH,
SPONSOR, explained that HB 361 (version A) would request a
911 coordinator to monitor and facilitate the training of
emergency dispatchers in CPR and require that dispatchers
be trained in CPR. Alaska is one of 18 states that do not
mandate the training.
Ms. Koeneman reviewed background regarding the location of
the 911 coordinator. In 2004, there was an omnibus bill
stipulating that the coordinator be housed within the
Department of Military and Veterans Affairs (DMVA) because
federal grant money was anticipated that required a 911
coordinator within the state. There has been debate about
whether DMVA or the Department of Public Safety (DPS)
should house the position.
Representative Fairclough added that the committee could
choose under the proposed CS to include CPR training, which
would put into state statute a standard already required
through regulation in other forms of training throughout
the state. She noted that DMVA had asked to move the
coordinator position over to DPS and it was discovered that
little had been done in coordinating, monitoring, and
training dispatchers of emergency medical services
throughout the state. The department provided a fiscal
note. Ms. Koeneman interjected that there was no fiscal
note for the new CS. The House Heath, Education, and Social
Services Committee (HES) had adopted a blank CS that moved
the position to DPS.
Co-Chair Hawker queried the version of the bill being
discussed. Ms. Koeneman replied that she was referring to
Version R (blank CS) that was adopted in HES; that version
did not move from committee because they were unable to get
a fiscal note from the department even after the CS was
adopted. The HES committee did not feel comfortable
bringing the bill to the Finance Committee with an unknown
fiscal note. Version A moved out of HES.
Co-Chair Hawker summarized that the bill introduced to the
committee was Version A; the differentiation was the
housing location of the coordinator. He queried the
language being proposed for amendment in the A version. The
language was put into statute some years ago to establish
the coordinator in DMVA. He asked whether there was a
person filling the position at DMVA currently.
MIKE O'HARE, DEPUTY DIRECTOR, DIVISION OF HOMELAND
SECURITY/EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT, DEPARTMENT OF MILITARY AND
VETERANS AFFAIRS (via teleconference), responded that there
was not a person filling the position. He provided
background. In 2004, a Senate bill was brought before the
House Rules Committee that included the additional duties
of the 911 coordinator to the DMVA Division of Homeland
Security and Emergency Management in an effort to secure
potential federal grant dollars for 911 enhancements. A
prerequisite for receiving the grant funding was having a
coordinator designation in place; the responsibilities were
to coordinate 911 communications in communities around the
state, set uniform standards for 911, look for federal
grant monies for 911, and enhance capabilities. The
position was an "other duties as assigned" position with no
funding. The federal grants did not materialize.
10:27:45 AM
Co-Chair Hawker summarized that the legislature had
provided for the position in the 2004 legislation but had
not funded the position with a fiscal note, and that the
position has never been funded by the legislature; there
was only the hope that federal grant money would be
available. Mr. O'Hare agreed.
Co-Chair Hawker summarized that the position existed, was
not funded, and was not filled. He thought the next
question proposed in the legislation was moving the
coordinator to DPS and securing funding for it. The funding
question in HES had resulted in reverting to the A version.
He queried the perspective of DPS.
SUE STANCLIFF, SPECIAL ASSISTANT, OFFICE OF THE
COMMISSIONER, DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SAFETY, was uneasy about
referring to a CS that had not yet been adopted by the
Finance Committee. Co-Chair Hawker said she could answer
the questions under the hypothetical that the position was
moved from DMVA to DPS.
Ms. Stancliff replied that DPS had worked with the bill
sponsor and was willing to take the responsibility on. The
department believed a real coordinator would be needed and
had prepared a fiscal note to that effect.
Co-Chair Hawker asked how much funding the agency would
request. Ms. Stancliff replied that the fiscal note would
require one full-time person to act as the 911 coordinator;
the initial cost to set up the position for FY 11 would be
$162,700; future years would require $151,000, which
included the required CPA training.
10:31:45 AM
Co-Chair Hawker asked whether the committee wanted more
information about the coordinator position.
Representative Kelly summarized that another state employee
would be added at significant cost. He commented that most
areas already had the certification and asked whether the
issue was a local one.
AUDIE HOLLOWAY, DIRECTOR, DIVISION OF ALASKA STATE
TROOPERS, DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SAFETY, testified in support
of the CPR qualifications, which the department thought
were very important. He added that state troopers and about
several thousand eighth-graders would be working with the
American Heart Association to get more CPR training out to
everyone.
Mr. Holloway stated that the issue was the disparity
between what is available in urban and rural areas.
Currently, nearly any person with a cell phone or land line
thinks they can call 911 and reach a live person; that is
not the case in many Alaskan rural villages. He reported
that the department had not been doing as much as they
should with 911 because the coordinator position was
expected to address the issue.
Mr. Holloway informed the committee that the department had
discovered that over 60 percent of business and 911 calls
were made from cell phones. Most of the state trooper 911
centers are subcontracted through local agencies; they have
a good working relationship that they want to maintain.
Many of the 911 calls were going to many different places
and not necessarily to a Public Safety Answering Point
(PSAP) qualified to provide 911 services. Some of the calls
were going to business offices within a village or city
that could be closed, a village public safety officer's
phone, or a recorder saying "call 911." He did not think
the public was being served as well as it should be.
10:36:20 AM
Mr. Holloway referenced changing technology and believed
the department should be prepared to collect information
from more than just a phone call. He thought the 911
coordinator position was needed to set up the policies,
procedures, education, and training necessary to meet the
public's expectation of what services should be available.
For instance, the public should be able to send text
messages and photographs and be able to use a cell phone to
call 911 and get somewhere productive. Currently, there are
places in the state where it is not clear where the 911
call would end up, causing delays while the call is moved
to the appropriate place.
Mr. Holloway hoped for collaboration with local personnel
so that when they could not provide a response there would
be an ultimate PSAP number that would be able to offer
assistance. He also hoped to know more about developing
technology and work with communication providers (such as
the Alaska Telephone Association) interested in helping the
state with the issue. Providers are mandated by law to send
911 calls to someplace where the calls will be answered;
there currently is a lot of confusion about where to send
the calls.
Mr. Holloway stressed that the priority was that a person
dialing 911 would get an answer from a person.
10:39:11 AM
Co-Chair Hawker queried funding sources for the position.
He asked whether there was a way to access 911 surcharges.
Mr. Holloway believed that the state did not get the
surcharges; local organizations did.
Co-Chair Hawker thought something was missing regarding the
funding source.
Representative Fairclough supported the fiscal note. She
noted that the 911 system needed structure and that the
lack of structure was putting communities at risk. She
pointed out that requiring CPR could be put on statute, and
that communities need to develop procedures for local
protocol standards. The CS could allow the state to work
with individual communities to set up a 911 structure and
standardize training.
Representative Kelly acknowledged that the idea was good,
but pointed out differences in services in different areas
of the state. He referred to law enforcement positions that
had already been approved and stated concerns about another
state employee position. He did not want to promise 911
services immediately, though he wanted that to be a goal.
He also wanted to know how to get a person trained in any
given remote location and what could happen if there was
not such a person. He was concerned about liability as well
as increased costs.
10:43:26 AM
Mr. Holloway responded that the state troopers were
expected to respond as quickly as possible to the calls,
wherever they originated. He thought the choices were
continuing the current practice of letting the system grow
organically and chaotically, or acquiring a coordinator to
organize a set of rules to provide statewide standards for
at least minimal response. He acknowledged that it could
take time to answer calls from remote areas, but thought it
would be faster than the current system. He believed the
state did well getting assistance to people in emergency
situations in difficult circumstances. He pointed out that
there were over 700 search-and-rescue calls each year; the
process could go faster with a more organized system.
Representative Kelly acknowledged the work already being
done. He was concerned about giving the state troopers
another set of conditions and wondered whether the task was
more appropriately left with individual communities. He
reiterated concerns with the fiscal note and an added
employee.
Representative Salmon spoke to challenges in rural
communities. He provided an example of a woman in a village
whose life was saved by a person trained in CPR. He wanted
the system related to CPR training and 911 capability to be
developed further. He stated that he supported the
legislation.
10:48:05 AM
Vice-Chair Thomas stated that he represented what he called
"urban villages," with troopers in Haines, Hoonah, Cordova,
and Craig. He asked who the dispatcher was for the
locations. Mr. Holloway responded that calls for Southeast
usually went through Ketchikan and then local
municipalities.
Vice-Chair Thomas asked how the positions and training
would be funded in the smaller locations. He wondered
whether the burden would be placed back on the
municipalities. Mr. Holloway replied that he shared the
concerns. He pointed out that most communities require CPR
and that the training could be done effectively online. He
hoped that the proposed coordinator position would be able
to access grant funds to train people around the state. He
believed that the state should assist [financially] if it
requires standards. He noted that funds are available.
Vice-Chair Thomas pointed out that volunteer fire
departments in many smaller communities offer CPR training.
He noted that 911 calls do not always go through trooper
dispatch. Mr. Holloway agreed; the state troopers are the
recipient of other people's initial 911 calls through
locals, subcontractors, fire departments, and other local
entities.
Vice-Chair Thomas noted that most commercial fishermen's
calls go through the Coast Guard.
Representative Austerman commented that he wanted a more
in-depth discussion regarding the larger policy issue of a
state-wide 911 system.
10:52:00 AM
CHRIS SHERWIN, VICE-PRESIDENT OF ADVOCACY, PACIFIC MOUNTAIN
AFFILIATE, AMERICAN HEART ASSOCIATION (via teleconference),
testified in support of HB 361. He reported that the
American Heart Association (AHA) was strongly supportive of
efforts to improve the state's 911 system and of filling
the 911 coordinator position. He agreed that there were a
lot of issues to be worked out and felt that the
coordinator could oversee the process and work with
entities like the AHA. The association specifically
supported putting a system in place that would assure that
a caller could reach a person trained in CPR and able to
walk the caller through until help arrived.
Mr. Sherwin spoke to concerns and possible improvements for
the legislation. The association would like the CPR
training provided to be based on science and have a hands-
on practice component. He pointed out differences between a
person trained in giving CPR and a person trained in how to
provide the instruction to someone else over the phone
(pre-arrival instruction). A standard part of training for
a certified emergency medical dispatcher usually includes
how to provide pre-arrival training over the phone. A
person who is only trained in giving CPR may not be able to
provide the information over the phone. He referred to
screen protocol that can help a person walk a caller
through the process.
10:57:05 AM
Co-Chair Hawker closed public testimony.
Co-Chair Hawker noted that the bill before the committee
was still the original HES version.
HB 361 was HEARD and HELD in Committee for further
consideration.
10:59:26 AM
ADJOURNMENT
The meeting was adjourned at 10:59 AM.
| Document Name | Date/Time | Subjects |
|---|---|---|
| HB 190 CS Work Draft N Version 040210 HB190.pdf |
HFIN 4/5/2010 9:00:00 AM |
HB 190 |
| House Bill 190 SS - 4-2-10.doc |
HFIN 4/5/2010 9:00:00 AM |
HB 190 |
| HB190 Sectional Analysis - FIN - 4-2-10.doc |
HFIN 4/5/2010 9:00:00 AM |
HB 190 |
| HB 361 Sponsor Statement - Electronic.doc |
HFIN 4/5/2010 9:00:00 AM |
HB 361 |
| HB 361 Article.pdf |
HFIN 4/5/2010 9:00:00 AM |
HB 361 |
| HB 361 - Kenai Pen. Borough LTR[1].pdf |
HFIN 4/5/2010 9:00:00 AM |
HB 361 |
| CPRToday_Certification[1].pdf |
HFIN 4/5/2010 9:00:00 AM |
HB 361 |
| Carson City dispatcher helps save a life.pdf |
HFIN 4/5/2010 9:00:00 AM |
HB 361 |
| Brookline 911 dispatcher helps save a life.pdf |
HFIN 4/5/2010 9:00:00 AM |
HB 361 |
| AdultCPRCourse[1].pdf |
HFIN 4/5/2010 9:00:00 AM |
HB 361 |
| Visitor Industry Impacts 3_30.pdf |
HFIN 4/5/2010 9:00:00 AM |
HB 361 |
| HB 361 CS WORK DRAFT 26 LS 1478 R.pdf |
HFIN 4/5/2010 9:00:00 AM |
HB 361 |
| HB 190 Letter Rasmuson Foundation.pdf |
HFIN 4/5/2010 9:00:00 AM |
HB 190 |
| HB 190 NEW FISCAL NOTE HSS.pdf |
HFIN 4/5/2010 9:00:00 AM |
HB 190 |