Legislature(2007 - 2008)HOUSE FINANCE 519
03/27/2008 01:30 PM House FINANCE
| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| HB367 | |
| HB419 | |
| HB400 | |
| HB50 | |
| HJR37 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| + | HB 50 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | HB 314 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | HJR 37 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | TELECONFERENCED | ||
| += | HB 419 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| += | HB 367 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| += | HB 400 | TELECONFERENCED | |
HOUSE FINANCE COMMITTEE
March 27, 2008
1:49 P.M.
CALL TO ORDER
Co-Chair Meyer called the House Finance Committee meeting to
order at 1:49:15 PM.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Mike Chenault, Co-Chair
Representative Kevin Meyer, Co-Chair
Representative Bill Stoltze, Vice-Chair
Representative Harry Crawford
Representative Les Gara
Representative Mike Hawker
Representative Reggie Joule
Representative Mike Kelly
Representative Bill Thomas Jr.
MEMBERS ABSENT
Representative John Harris
Representative Mary Nelson
ALSO PRESENT
Representative Max Gruenberg; Representative Beth Kerttula;
Tom Wright, Staff, Representative Mike Chenault; Vern Jones,
Chief Procurement Officer, Department of Administration;
Aurora Hauke, Staff, Representative Beth Kerttula; Rynnieva
Moss, Staff, Representative John Coghill; Marsha Pickering,
Deputy Compact Administrator, Social Services Program
Coordinator, Office of Children's Services (OCS), Department
of Health and Social Services; Mike Lesmann, Community
Relations, Office of Children's Services (OCS), Department
of Health and Social Services
SUMMARY
HB 50 An Act relating to the Interstate Compact for the
Placement of Children; establishing an interstate
commission for the placement of children; amending
Rules 4 and 24, Alaska Rules of Civil Procedure;
and providing for an effective date.
CS HB 50 (JUD) was reported out of Committee with
a "do pass" recommendation and with zero note #1
by the Department of Administration and fiscal
note #2 by the Department of Health and Social
Services.
HB 367 An Act relating to the sale of raw milk and raw
milk products.
HB 367 was SCHEDULED but not HEARD.
HB 400 An Act relating to a person who seeks medical
assistance for a person experiencing a drug
overdose.
HB 400 was reported out of Committee with a "do
pass" recommendation and with zero note #1 by the
Department of Law.
HB 419 An Act prohibiting certain state leases and lease-
purchase agreements for equipment and other
personal property; and providing for an effective
date.
HB 419 was HEARD & HELD in Committee for further
consideration.
HJR 37 Proposing amendments to the Constitution of the
State of Alaska to correct obsolete references to
the office of secretary of state by substituting
references to the office of lieutenant governor
and to eliminate personal pronoun references in
the sections proposed to be amended.
CS HJR 37 (JUD) was reported out of Committee with
"individual recommendations" and with fiscal note
#1 by the Office of the Governor.
1:50:04 PM
HOUSE BILL NO. 419
An Act prohibiting certain state leases and lease-
purchase agreements for equipment and other personal
property; and providing for an effective date.
Co-Chair Chenault MOVED to ADOPT work draft 25-LS1567\K,
Cook, 3/26/08, as the version of the bill before the
Committee. There being NO OBJECTION, it was adopted.
1:50:46 PM
TOM WRIGHT, STAFF, REPRESENTATIVE MIKE CHENAULT, explained
that the work draft proposes a "kinder and gentler" version
of the original bill. He stated that HB 419 places into
statute, authorization for State departments and other
agencies such as the Supreme Court, the Board of Regents for
the University of Alaska and the Legislative Council to
enter into lease-purchase contracts for equipment and other
properties that are not considered real property.
In the past, there were no limitations on a department's
ability to enter into lease purchases for non-real property
purchases. The Administration interpreted an Attorney
General's opinion from 1987 to give them the power to enter
into the agreements. The new section of HB 419, AS
36.30.086, provides the explicit authorization for
departments to enter into lease-purchase agreements for
equipment to perform the duties and statutory functions of
the department.
Mr. Wright continued, the legislation requires that any
agency that enters into a lease-purchase contract that
exceeds $100 thousand dollars, provide written notice to the
House and Senate presiding officers and the Finance
Committee chairs. It also requires that the Office of
Management and Budget (OMB) submit a report containing each
lease-purchase agreement entered into by an agency during
the preceding fiscal year. The report will need to include
the purchase price, term payments, the amount of each
payment and the amount of interest or financing charges
paid.
He identified changes made to the bill:
· Section 1 designates in AS 36.30.085 as pertaining
to only real property. Previously, there were no
provisions addressing the legal definition of
personal property.
· AS 36.30.086, lease-purchase of personal property,
provides all departments ability to enter into
lease-purchase agreements.
· Additional reporting requirement was added,
th
indicating by January 15 of each year, all lease-
purchase agreements must be reported to the
Legislature.
1:53:29 PM
Co-Chair Meyer pointed out the testifiers available for
comment on the bill. Mr. Wright indicated his gratitude to
the many agencies that had assisted in preparation of the
bill. He understood that OMB has indicated concern with
some reporting requirements for the lease-purchase items &
that the Department of Administration might also have
concerns. He maintained, it is prudent for all lease-
purchase agreements to be reported.
1:54:36 PM
Representative Hawker inquired if there was a definition of
lease-purchase agreement in Statute. Mr. Wright did not
believe there was but noted there is a definition of real
property and non real property.
Representative Hawker questioned if the intent was to
provide an agreement at the end of the lease purchase title
to the State of Alaska and if that would be limited scope.
He wondered if a loophole was there, escaping reporting.
Mr. Wright deferred to the department. He pointed out that
AS 36.30.085 discusses lease-purchase agreements and does
relate to real property agreements and provides guidelines
to lease-purchase agreement concerns.
Representative Kelly asked if the bill would increase or
decrease the amount of lease-purchasing done by the State.
Mr. Wright did not think it would be affecting it one way or
the other and that the sponsor did not want to see the
system abused in the future.
1:57:45 PM
Co-Chair Chenault interjected, the intent is to determine if
there are abuses occurring in the programs. Presently, the
process indicates there are no abuses but certainly, large
amounts of money have gone out. It is the Legislature's
authorization to know how the departments are spending the
money and how loans are paid back. He wanted to present
legislation that provides a report and the details as to how
the funds will be used. He reiterated the issue of
appropriation power and tracking of money spent across
department lines.
1:59:30 PM
VERN JONES, CHIEF PROCUREMENT OFFICER, DEPARTMENT OF
ADMINISTRATION, responded to a previous query by
Representative Hawker regarding the difference between a
lease and a lease purchase, noting no statutory definition.
The difference is that at the end of a lease-purchase, the
State would own the asset and at the end of a lease, the
asset is returned to the party that it was leased from.
Representative Hawker questioned the terminology of those
concepts. He pointed out the principle regarding the title
transfer lessee; in other cases where the lease involves
substantial value of the asset, while it does not transfer
title, it is still required to be recognized as a
capitalized asset. He believed that it would be possible to
circumvent the intent of the Statute by terms of a lease-
purchase agreement, which could actually be a transfer title
risk of ownership. At the end of the lease term, the title
could remain with the leaser and would not require
disclosure. Mr. Jones agreed that if the State intends to
simply lease a piece of equipment with no option of
ownership, the bill does not apply.
Representative Hawker requested working with the Sponsor to
correct the loophole.
2:02:37 PM
Representative Crawford remembered that the bill had
initially been submitted in conjunction with Governor
Murkowski's jet purchase and asked if it was intended to
deter future actions such as that. Mr. Jones said if the
bill been in place, the Department would have been required
to make the transaction and report it to the Legislature and
would have shown up in the January report.
2:03:52 PM
Representative Thomas remembered that the press had
indicated that the Legislature allowed the Governor to
purchase the jet because of certain language in Statute. He
wanted to be guaranteed that would not happen again. Mr.
Wright said that the sponsors did discuss caps; however,
created complications in cases where the Legislature wants
to authorize or approve a lease-purchase by adding unwanted
steps. That option has created stumbling blocks by not
limiting the Legislature's ability to authorize.
Representative Joule inquired if it could be an option for
the Legislative Budget and Audit (LBA) Committee for
consideration of adding a cap exceeding the request. Mr.
Wright advised that LBA can not authorize exceeding the
caps; they do not have that approval authority.
2:05:59 PM
Representative Hawker observed that the work draft was
intended to be the "nicer" version of the bill; he suggested
consideration of the original version. Co-Chair Meyer
proposed the bill be held so that Co-Chair Chenault and
Representative Hawker could discuss the version to move
forward.
2:06:41 PM
HB 419 was HELD in Committee for further consideration.
2:07:13 PM
HOUSE BILL NO. 400
An Act relating to a person who seeks medical
assistance for a person experiencing a drug overdose.
REPRESENTATIVE BETH KERTTULA, SPONSOR, introduced the bill
because a constituent's daughter died from a drug overdose,
and out of that, she has put her grief to work to determine
a way to encourage reporting of someone having a drug
overdose. There have been nationwide studies undertaken
that address mitigating factors.
2:08:54 PM
AURORA HAUKE, STAFF, REPRESENTATIVE BETH KERTTULA, stated
that HB 400 is an attempt to save lives; approximately 85
Alaskans die each year from drug overdoses and that number
exceeds the national average. Many times, deaths from drug
overdoses may be preventable by a single 911 call. Often
those calls are not made because the people who are
witnessing the overdose are afraid of being arrested
themselves.
HB 400 identifies the problem by allowing a mitigating
factor in sentencing for crimes involving controlled
substances, if the defendant sought medical assistance for
another person, who was experiencing a drug overdoes.
2:09:56 PM
Representative Hawker asked the specific definition of a
drug overdose. Representative Kerttula viewed it as
anything threatening a person's health from the use of a
drug. Representative Hawker questioned if a single trip on
heroine could be considered a drug overdose. Representative
Kerttula offered to check into that, advising that what she
had seen had been more serious and life threatening.
2:10:59 PM
Vice-Chair Stoltze mentioned a case that happened in
Spenard. He thought that the definition was too ambiguous.
Representative Kerttula countered that the judge could make
the decision regarding whether it was appropriate or not and
that factual information is never taken lightly. Vice-Chair
Stoltze did not have the same confidence in the judicial
branch.
2:12:25 PM
Representative Gara took offense to comments regarding
judges, made by Vice-Chair Stoltze. Representative Gara
suggested that those type of comments are not in the
Committee's greatest use of time.
Representative Gara noted that these are not people who
have committed a crime and are going to get off sentencing.
Instead, it will be a person that has committed a crime and
convicted of committing that crime. It is a mitigater
indicating that in the circumstances where there is a crime
committed, during the commission of that crime, you place
the call for help for another person, that action would be
considered in the sentencing. If a crime is committed and
other awful things have been done also, there would be an
aggravator and the judge determines the sentence for those
people. There are more aggravators than there are
mitigaters in the sentencing statutes. Sentencing should be
determined by everything the person did. He summed up, a
person calling law enforcement to help another person,
should receive some favorable consideration.
Co-Chair Meyer agreed that if someone does a good deed,
there should be mitigating factors considered. He did not
know if people committing the crimes would know that by
calling 911, there would be a possibility of a lesser
sentence. Representative Kerttula replied that this kind of
information does get around and is known and could make a
difference. She noted she had looked into the statute and
could not determine if there was a criminal law definition
for overdose. She thought it might be a medical term.
2:15:33 PM
Representative Hawker commented that the legislation
proposes a "good Samaritan refuge". He wondered if there
was another way to look at the language to be more
inclusive. Representative Kerttula advised that the
information in HB 400 is specific about the actual problem
related to the overdose itself. Ms. Hauke added, last year,
the State of New Mexico, which also has a high rate of
deaths related to drug overdoses, passed similar
legislation.
2:17:48 PM
Representative Hawker advised that the bill proposes to
create a mitigater and asked if that could create a conflict
with presumptive sentencing already in Statute.
Representative Kerttula did not think so. She said that the
Department of Law had looked closely at it. It would only
happen after the person is convicted and the judge then
makes certain findings; it would be left to the judge's
discretion. Ms. Hauke added that the mitigating factor is
based on the presumptive sentences. The low-end of the
presumptive range is zero to four years; it could be reduced
to removing the sentence all together.
2:19:04 PM
Representative Gara believed that a court could interpret a
drug overdose. He pointed out that sentence hearings are
not long like trials can be. He pointed out #18, the need
to prove that mitigating factors, asking what "suffering"
from mental disease means. He thought that some terms just
do not need to be defined.
Representative Gara referenced the comment made by
Representative Hawker regarding the "Good Samaritan"
provision of the bill. To resolve the drug overdose
situation, it is a good thing for someone to call for
medical help during a crime and recommended that alternative
language be included.
Representative Kerttula thought those changes would reduce
the title, making is substantially broader. She did not
object to that if it were the will of the Committee. She
pointed out that New Mexico added immunity to their statute.
She had not offered the bill that way. HB 400 specifically
offers a mitigater. Co-Chair Meyer commented that those
changes should have been made in the House Judiciary
Committee.
2:22:30 PM
Vice-Chair Stoltze asked if references had been made to
legal or criminal immunity. Representative Kerttula
responded, it would be immunity from criminal prosecution.
The Committee chose not to do that.
Vice-Chair Stoltze disagreed with the term "Good Samaritan"
suggesting rather a "criminal accomplice with a lapse of
conscience". He asked if the legislation could include
alcohol abuse. Ms. Hauke stated it deals with AS 11.71, the
controlled substances statute. She did not believe that
drug overdose would also be considered alcohol overdose.
Representative Kerttula said arguably it could be, however,
wanted to check it with the Department of Law.
2:24:45 PM
Representative Joule thought that Representative Stoltze was
correct. He noted that he had served on the Alcohol Drug
and Advisory Board, referencing alcohol and other drugs. He
worried the bill would place a continued stress on the bed
space at the Department of Corrections. He wanted to see
responsibility in addressing people's choices. Co-Chair
Meyer agreed and thought that the bill could actually save
the State money. He did not know about sentencing and
mitigating factors. Representative Kerttula explained that
mitigating factors must be specifically requested, with
findings made and after the trial, during the sentencing.
Then there is a range of mitigating options and in the
higher sentencing, the judge can only reduce ½ of the
sentence. She added that these kind of defendants do know
the law and she thought it would have a beneficial result.
Representative Gara advised that the legislation would not
cover alcohol abuse; it is only for a conviction under AS
11.71, which he thought was only controlled substances, not
alcohol. He stated that part of the criminal system is
determining the right level of punishment. Representative
Kerttula clarified that the offense that the person is
convicted under is under AS 11.71; however, it is the other
person that is actually experiencing the drug overdose and
consequently, alcohol would be included under the
definition.
2:29:25 PM
PUBLIC TESTIMONY CLOSED
2:30:09 PM
Representative Gara thought that inclusion of the mitigater
could reduce jail time, which could zero out the fiscal
note. Co-Chair Meyer advised that the note is already zero.
Vice-Chair Stoltze MOVED to REPORT HB 400 out of Committee
with individual recommendations and with the accompanying
fiscal note. There being NO OBJECTION, it was so ordered.
HB 400 was reported out of Committee with a "do pass"
recommendation and with zero note #1 by the Department of
Law.
2:31:39 PM
HOUSE BILL NO. 50
An Act relating to the Interstate Compact for the
Placement of Children; establishing an interstate
commission for the placement of children; amending
Rules 4 and 24, Alaska Rules of Civil Procedure; and
providing for an effective date.
RYNNIEVA MOSS, STAFF, REPRESENTATIVE JOHN COGHILL, directed
her comments to Representative Coghill's involvement with
the legislation. She stated that HB 50 provides provisions
for adoption of a new Interstate Child Placement Compact
(ICPC). The current ICPC was drafted in 1959 to assure
that children placed across state lines were placed with the
same protections and services as children placed intrastate.
Through the years, it has become evident that the ICPC has
resulted in unnecessary delays in moving children across the
state lines, lack of accountability and an outdated
administrative process. The current ICPC applies to all
interstate placements such as placement with relatives and
residential treatment centers, not just placements involving
children in state custody.
Ms. Moss continued, the new compact would hold states to a
higher standard of duty, eliminating regulation of children
not in state custody, making provisions for private child
placement agencies and bringing the administrative process
into current times with home study incentives, definitions
for new terminology requiring consideration of interstate
placements, cooperation between member states in sharing
information and providing foster parents more participation
in the process.
Ms. Moss stated that HB 50 provides state child placement
agencies and courts, the tools to make faster interstate
placements and holds all parties accountable for providing a
safe, reliable home for children in out-of-state placement.
2:34:27 PM
MARSHA PICKERING, DEPUTY COMPACT ADMINISTRATOR, SOCIAL
SERVICES PROGRAM COORDINATOR, OFFICE OF CHILDREN'S SERVICES
(OCS), DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND SOCIAL SERVICES, addressed
the ICPC, which attempts to bring more uniformity to the
process because under the current compact, the rules and
regulations that have been developed were not drafted under
the Administrative rule process. The Department wanted to
determine accountability for the receiving state. The new
compact offers the opportunity to come up with rules &
regulations that all states follow and requirements will
include enforcement. There would also be a required
mediation structure, allowing for lawsuits in federal court.
The reprecosity element will be a continuation of current
practice with more uniform guidelines.
Ms. Pickering noted that the compact has been endorsed by
the National Council on State Human Services & the National
Association of Public Child Welfare Administration & other
agencies.
Ms. Pickering commented that another opportunity under the
ICPC will be uniform data collecting, sharing & guidelines
involving tribal governments. Under the new commission,
the State would have opportunities to actually work with the
tribes to determine a mechanism for the placements. The
legislation will provide for provisional approval. She
commented on the length of time it takes for placements.
The new compact provides the Division the opportunity to
offer provisional approvals based on local background
checks.
Ms. Pickering added that the new compact deletes the
requirement for parents to go through the compact to place
their children in residential treatment centers. It no
longer applies to foreign adoptions or families making
decisions among themselves regarding the placement with
someone that is not an actual relative but a part of the
family. The compact will require a State advisory committee
for oversight, which will be represented from each branch of
government.
2:40:09 PM
Representative Joule asked about the fiscal costs. Ms.
Pickering anticipated two years for all states to enact the
legislation; it will take approximately another year to
determine the rules and regulations. At that time, the
Department will be able to determine what is needed for
compliance and the associated costs.
Co-Chair Meyer asked if thirty-four other states would need
to approve before going into effect. Ms. Pickering said
yes.
Representative Gara asked if the proposed compact had the
same language as the one put before the other states. Ms.
Pickering said it was the same with the addition of statues
to support the provision to renumber. Ms. Moss interjected
that the provision that was renumbered was an indirect court
rule that applies only to the State of Alaska.
2:42:35 PM
PUBLIC TESTIMONY CLOSED
Ms. Moss noted that the sponsor decided to hold the first
draft of the compact as he wanted to be guaranteed that it
would not supersede State law and wanted to make sure that
any threat to State sovereignty was eliminated. Through
negotiations with the Division, language concerns were
removed.
2:43:40 PM
Representative Kelly asked if those comments had been
directed to Page 2, the Department of Health and Social
Services fiscal note reference to tribes. Ms. Moss said no;
however, the old version stated that regulations adopted by
the commission would supersede State law. She provided
examples of language that had been removed. Representative
Kelly asked assurance that was no longer a concern. Ms.
Moss agreed.
2:44:54 PM
Co-Chair Meyer referenced the Department of Health and
Social Services fiscal note.
MIKE LESMANN, COMMUNITY RELATIONS, OFFICE CHILDREN'S
SERVICES (OCS), DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND SOCIAL SERVICES,
explained the fiscal note, which does reflect that in the
first two fiscal years, OCS would not be requesting
additional resources; beginning in 2011, that would change
depending on ratification of the thirty-four other states.
Representative Kelly mentioned the size of the note and
asked what would happen if it was not passed. Ms. Moss
pointed out that the fiscal notes reflect the administration
of the commission. She did not believe that they "fairly
reflect" that and less expense would be incurred by OCS from
the quickness of placement, putting children with family
rather than into foster homes. She reiterated, the fiscal
note does not adequately reflect the real fiscal impact.
Representative Kelly asked if the sponsor believes the
actual cost would be lower. Ms. Moss said yes.
Representative Kelly advised that family should be taking
care of these concerns and that they should not be paid.
Ms. Moss responded that there are incidences where the State
does pay family in situations which the children have either
physical or mental problems that need medical attention and
Medicaid assistance.
2:48:03 PM
Representative Hawker MOVED to REPORT CS HB 50 (JUD) out of
Committee with individual recommendations and with the
accompanying fiscal notes. There being NO OBJECTION, it was
so ordered.
CS HB 50 (JUD) was reported out of Committee with a "do
pass" recommendation and with zero note #1 by the Department
of Administration and fiscal note #2 by the Department of
Health and Social Services.
2:48:48 PM
HOUSE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 37
Proposing amendments to the Constitution of the State
of Alaska to correct obsolete references to the office
of secretary of state by substituting references to the
office of lieutenant governor and to eliminate personal
pronoun references in the sections proposed to be
amended.
REPRESENTATIVE MAX GRUENBERG, SPONSOR, advised that in 1970,
the legislature proposed and the voters of Alaska approved a
series of amendments to the State Constitution that changed
the name of the Office of "Secretary of State" to the office
of "Lieutenant Governor". At that time, the drafting
attorneys did not catch all of the references to "Secretary
of State".
HJR 37 corrects the two remaining references to "Secretary
of State". The proposed amendments, if approved would place
it before the voters in the next general election. He
added, it also corrects personal pronouns referenced in
those sections.
2:50:27 PM
In response to Representative Gara's observation of changing
all pronouns to "he", Representative Gruenberg responded
that he wanted to take the path of least resistance and
controversy.
Representative Gara thought that since the bill intends to
be a "clean-up", all legislators should not be referenced as
"he". Representative Gruenberg noted that the original bill
could be adopted rather the House Judiciary draft.
Representative Gara asked why the House Judiciary Committee
changed the pronouns to "he". Representative Gruenberg
noted that the House Judiciary draft has attached a
memorandum addressing two subjects. For that reason, it was
determined safer to limit it to "Lt. Governor" and "he". He
noted that another bill HJR 7, adds additional language
clean-up.
2:53:41 PM
Vice-Chair Stoltze commented that incorrect gender reference
falls under obsolete but that the courts will do what they
want to in any case. He noted that he had not received any
complaints regarding the matter.
Representative Hawker questioned why an oversight from a
previous amendment, merits a process of putting it back in
front of the people for a vote. Representative Gruenberg
responded that it is important to keep the Alaska
Constitution correct and up to date, acknowledging, it is
not earth-shaking.
2:58:36 PM
Vice-Chair Stoltze stated that he would vote "do not pass"
the bill out of Committee if the sponsor intended to place
any amendments into it on the House floor. Representative
Gruenberg replied he had no intention of adding amendments.
Co-Chair Chenault MOVED to REPORT CS HJR 37 (JUD) out of
Committee with individual recommendations and with the
accompanying fiscal note. There being NO OBJECTION, it was
so ordered.
CS HJR 37 (JUD) was reported out of Committee with
"individual recommendations" and with fiscal note #1 by the
Office of the Governor.
3:01:00 PM
ADJOURNMENT
The meeting was adjourned at 3:03 P.M.
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