Legislature(2001 - 2002)
05/20/2002 04:45 PM House FIN
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| = | SB2001 | ||
| SB2009 | |||
HOUSE FINANCE COMMITTEE
May 20, 2002
4:45 P.M.
TAPE HFC 02 - 5, Side A
TAPE HFC 02 - 5, Side B
CALL TO ORDER
Co-Chair Mulder called the House Finance Committee meeting
to order at 4:45 P.M.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Eldon Mulder, Co-Chair
Representative Bill Williams, Co-Chair
Representative Con Bunde, Vice-Chair
Representative Eric Croft
Representative Richard Foster
Representative John Harris
Representative Bill Hudson
Representative Ken Lancaster
Representative Jim Whitaker
MEMBERS ABSENT
Representative John Davies
Representative Carl Moses
ALSO PRESENT
Representative Ethan Berkowitz; Representative Lisa
Murkowski; Representative Beth Kerttula; Representative
Jeannette James; Jim Duncan, Commissioner, Department of
Administration; Alison Elgee, Deputy Commissioner,
Department of Administration; Denny Dewitt, Staff,
Representative Eldon Mulder; Pat Carothers, Chair, Alaska
Veterans Advisory Council (AVAC), Juneau; Adjutant General
BG Phil Oates, Commissioner, Department of Military and
Veterans Affairs
PRESENT VIA TELECONFERENCE
Ed Willis, Anchorage; Gordon Severson, Anchorage; Stan
Nelson, Anchorage; Montafay Lane, President, Alaska Assisted
Living Home Association, North Pole; Leslie Orebaugh,
Secretary, Assisted Living Association for Alaska
SUMMARY
SB 2001 An Act changing the name of the Alaska Pioneers'
Home to the Alaska Pioneers' and Veterans' Home
and of the Alaska Pioneers' Homes Advisory Board
to the Alaska Pioneers' and Veterans' Home
Advisory Board; relating to housing and services
for veterans; relating to the advisory board for
the home; making other amendments to the statutes
relating to the home; and providing for an
effective date.
HCS CS SB 2001 (FIN) was reported out of Committee
with a "do pass" recommendation and with a new
zero fiscal note by the House Finance Committee.
SB 2009 An Act establishing the Alaska Veterans Advisory
Council; and providing for an effective date.
HCS CS SB 2009 (FIN) was reported out of Committee
with a "do pass" recommendation and with new zero
fiscal note by the House Finance Committee.
#SB2009
SENATE BILL NO. 2009
An Act establishing the Alaska Veterans Advisory
Council; and providing for an effective date.
Co-Chair Mulder stated that SB 2009 would establish an
eleven member Veterans Advisory Council within the
Department of Military & Veterans Affairs. The Council
would make recommendations to the Governor and the
Department concerning the needs and concerns of veterans.
The Governor would appoint members of the Council for a
three-year term. Appointments would include members of
veterans' organization, State programs that serve veterans,
and other citizens who are familiar with veterans' issues.
The new Council would succeed the Council established in
Executive Order No. 164. The old council would terminate on
January 1, 2003 at which time the new Council, established
by this Legislature, through SB 2009, would become
effective.
Co-Chair Williams MOVED to ADOPT the committee substitute
work draft, #22-GS2109\C, Lauterbach, 5/20/02, as the
version of the legislation before the Committee for
consideration. There being NO OBJECTION, it was so adopted.
Representative Croft asked what changes had been made in the
draft before the Committee.
Co-Chair Mulder explained the two changes:
· The Board would decrease from twenty members
to eleven members; and
· The Council would take effect on January 1,
2003.
Representative Croft asked the reason for the changes made
to the composition of the board.
Co-Chair Mulder responded that all members would continue to
be appointed by the Governor.
Representative Hudson MOVED to report HCS CS SB 2009 (FIN)
out of Committee with individual recommendations and with
the accompanying fiscal note. There being NO OBJECTION, it
was so ordered.
HCS CS SB 2009 (FIN) was reported out of Committee with a
"do pass" recommendation and a new zero note by the House
Finance Committee.
#SB2001
SENATE BILL NO. 2001
An Act changing the name of the Alaska Pioneers' Home
to the Alaska Pioneers' and Veterans' Home and of the
Alaska Pioneers' Homes Advisory Board to the Alaska
Pioneers' and Veterans' Home Advisory Board; relating
to housing and services for veterans; relating to the
advisory board for the home; making other amendments to
the statutes relating to the home; and providing for an
effective date.
Vice-Chair Bunde MOVED to ADOPT committee substitute, #22-
LS1816\J, Lauterbach, 5/20/02, as the version of the bill
before the Committee. There being NO OBJECTION, it was
adopted.
DENNY DEWITT, STAFF, REPRESENTATIVE ELDON MULDER,
highlighted the changes made to the committee substitute:
· Section 1 would change the composition of the
Pioneers Advisory Board by replacing a non-
specified appointment by a specified appointment.
· Sub-section 2 would replace a general person with
the Chairman of the Alaska Veteran's Advisory
Council, created by SB 2009.
· Section 3 would change the duties of the
Department of Administration and would require
them to work with the federal government for
matters pertaining to the welfare of the Alaska
pioneers and veterans.
· Sub-section 4 requires that the Pioneer Homes meet
the same general standards as the assisted living
homes, as listed under AS 47.33.
· Section 5 provides a process for the Pioneer Homes
to designate a specified number of beds for the
pilot project. It would limit that no more than
30% of the beds in a single institution could be
reserved for veterans.
· A sub-section of Section 5 provides a process,
whereby, the Pioneer Homes have the option to
consider people that are either veterans or not,
depending on the availability of beds. No beds
would be closed off.
· Section 6 conforms to litigation from twelve years
ago, changing the residency from fifteen years to
one year.
· Section 7 consists of a compilation of corrected
references to the federal statutes.
· Section 8 addresses trust funds, and allows those
funds to be used by the Alaska Pioneer Homes so
that there is no loss of use for the funds.
· Section 10 creates a pilot project and allows the
Department of Administration to negotiate with the
Veterans' Administration. That section requires
the Department to report back to the Legislature
in 2005, to determine if it would be appropriate
to extend the pilot program.
· Section 11 deals with uncodified law, and changes
the name of the Pioneer Homes to the Pioneer and
Veterans' Homes.
· Section 12 creates contingent effective dates for
Sections 1, 5, & 11, dependant upon the pilot
program moving forward.
· Sections 14 & 15 establish the effective dates.
Representative Croft referenced Page 3, Section 5, noting
that the original bill recommended that 30% of the beds in
the same institution could be used or 21% of the beds in the
entire system could be occupied. He asked how that
corresponded to the current committee substitute.
Mr. DeWitt explained that the decision was to use veterans
currently in those homes, to provide the base number.
Representative Croft understood that currently, there are 95
veterans in the homes, pointing out that there are
approximately 100 empty beds.
Co-Chair Mulder interjected that the intent was to retain
the same percentage that currently exists. He pointed out
that the Pioneers of Alaska do oppose the legislation. The
concern was to retain the ability to provide for a "dual
track access" to the Pioneer Homes.
JIM DUNCAN, COMMISSIONER, DEPARTMENT OF ADMINISTRATION,
responded that it is currently 19%.
Co-Chair Mulder stated that the Senate version provided for
21% veteran beds. He thought that the proposed legislation
was more acceptable to the pioneers.
Representative Hudson referenced Page 4, Line 15, and the
conversion of the 15-year requirement to 1 year. He asked
if that had been an arbitrary selection.
Mr. DeWitt replied that number was from the Administration's
original draft.
Representative Hudson asked if one year could provide a good
policy. He inquired if there were legal rights toward more
than one year, noting that one-year would not be long
enough.
Mr. DeWitt reiterated, the language came from the original
draft. He advised that the State of Alaska lost the
residency Court case for legal rights to more than one year.
The option to correct the legislation was not taken, so it
must be a one-year residency rule.
Representative Croft pointed out that most of the people on
the Pioneer Home wait list are long time residents of the
State. He added that for any person to qualify, they would
have to live in the State for one year before applying.
Commissioner Duncan outlined the important principles:
· A commitment to the veterans of the State of
Alaska;
· Thus the name change is critical; and
· There should be a preference on the number of beds
for veterans.
Commissioner Duncan noted that there is a difference between
the Administration's approach and the legislative approach.
The approach proposed on Page 3, does bring the State to 19%
of the funded beds, however, that number would float and
change. The Administration recommends that there are 21%.
The Administration feels strongly that, in addition to
making a commitment to change and a preference, more beds
should be opened up for the veterans. He recommended that
there be a floating percentage and added that if the
Legislature provides the Department more money, they could
work with the proposed preference.
Commissioner Duncan requested additional funding to better
serve the pioneers of the State to be able to add more beds.
Commissioner Duncan addressed the sunset provision. He
noted that the original bill did not have a sunset
provision. Having a sunset causes concern for the
Administration. The Administration requests that the
legislation pass without the sunset. He maintained that it
is appropriate to make a strong commitment to veterans now
and in the future. There is an additional change from the
Senate version that authorizes the Department of
Administration, in consultation with Department of Military
& Veterans Affairs, to conduct an Alaskan veterans needs
study. The proposed committee substitute does not contain
that authority or the money to fund that study. He
requested that action be reconsidered.
ADJUTANT GENERAL BG PHIL OATES, COMMISSIONER, DEPARTMENT OF
MILITARY AND VETERANS AFFAIRS, agreed with the comments of
Commissioner Duncan. He added that the committee substitute
does take a small and important step, however, it could take
a "bigger step". The legislation would open up the
opportunity to change federal laws and procedures to start
flowing money and benefits to the veterans. He added that
the Pioneers Homes is a high quality system. The intent of
the legislation is to recognize veterans and then open up
the opportunity to the six regional pioneer homes.
Commissioner Oates suggested that the State could take a
"larger step" by allowing a percentage to float up as the
money increases, so to give more beds into that system. He
hoped that the test would be successful and would meet the
needs of the veterans in the State of Alaska.
Co-Chair Mulder referenced the "study money", indicating
that money currently flows through the Legislative Budget
and Audit (LBA) Committee. He said that it was his intent
to work with that Committee to get the money for the
Department of Administration.
Co-Chair Mulder referenced the handout distributed by the
Department: "Veterans Residing in the Alaska Pioneers' Home
System". (Copy on File). The column labeled LOC references
the level of care. The level of care determines how much
each person would need to pay. If the person pays out-of-
pocket the full load, the remaining federal money would go
into "their pocket". Each of the listed 49 are subsidized
by the State at some level.
Commissioner Duncan walked members through the chart
containing the name, level of care, monthly rate, monthly
subsidy, the amount that the VA reimburses, the balance and
the added revenue for the State of Alaska. Commissioner
Duncan highlighted various participants listed on the chart.
It is anticipated that the State would receive increased
revenue through the Pioneer Home receipts, however, that
idea is not firm. If the State starts to receive Pioneer
Home receipts in FY03, the Department of Administration does
not have the authorization to expend them. That
authorization was not provided in the budget or in the
legislation. It would be subject to action taken by the
Legislative Budget and Audit Committee.
Co-Chair Mulder stated that once the agreement is in place,
it is anticipated that the Department will be able to
receive authority to access those funds through the fast
track supplemental.
Commissioner General Oates advised that veterans feel
strongly that they have "earned" these benefits rather than
that they are "receiving" the benefits. The veterans are
willing to use their benefits for their cost of care. He
added that the more veterans that there are in the homes,
the greater chance there is to bring income into the State.
Representative Hudson assumed that the added revenue that
the veterans receive would go dollar for dollar toward their
care. He asked if that language was included.
Commissioner Duncan advised that the amount that an
individual pays is recorded in statute and is based upon
income. Right now, the veterans who pay full cost of care
keep their benefits; however, the individuals not paying for
the full cost, their benefits are contributed toward the
State's system.
Vice-Chair Bunde pointed out that the sheet indicates a
continuum between nearly $6,000 a month to less than $500
dollars a month subsidy. He asked how that information
tracks with the pioneers currently in the Homes.
Commissioner Duncan replied that it would similar.
Vice-Chair Bunde are if the veterans tended to be better off
with more subsidies than most of the other pioneers.
General Oates replied that would depend on the veteran's
rank.
Commissioner Duncan stated that about 50% of the current
pioneer residents are on assistance, similar track to the
veterans.
Representative Hudson asked if there was any discrimination
against the veterans at present time.
Commissioner Duncan replied there is not to his knowledge.
General Oates pointed out that Alaska is the only State that
does not have a veterans home. He believed that was because
of the size of this State and because of the existing
Pioneer Home infrastructure. To build a single veterans
home, would cost $4 million dollars. The State would have
to contribute the land, the federal government would provide
$8 million dollars to build, and the federal government
would require the State to fully operate it. That facility
would provide approximately 100 beds, located in one area of
the State. It would cost about $8 million dollars to run
the facility. Most veterans would have to live away from
their families.
Commissioner General Oates commented that there are no other
states where the military has had be bigger impact. The
State of Alaska has the second largest per capita number of
veterans. He emphasized the need for full funding.
Co-Chair Mulder questioned where the reference for $40
dollars a day came from.
Commissioner Duncan affirmed the number was reasonable. He
observed that there are rates for aspects but not the entire
match of services. The Pioneer Homes would be providing a
different level of care than in veterans' homes in other
areas. There would be no skilled nursing. The goal is to
have a pilot program and negotiate a rate. The lower end
rate is $24 dollars a day and the higher end rate is $53
dollars a day. He claimed that the assisted living rate
would fall somewhere in the middle of that, thus the $40
dollar figure.
Co-Chair Mulder questioned if the statutes would need to be
changed.
Commissioner Duncan acknowledged that it would be important
to change State regulations if the Veterans' Administration
was going to move in. The federal level needs to know that
the State of Alaska is supportive and committed to the goal
for the veterans.
In response to a question by Co-Chair Mulder, Commissioner
Duncan explained that the Department's plan is for a
demonstration project. He clarified that the intent was not
to include a sunset to the program.
Co-Chair Mulder acknowledged that there have been questions
regarding the need for statutory change.
Commissioner Duncan replied that the Department has been
negotiating with the Veterans' Administration to determine
what is essential.
Commissioner General Oates reassured the Committee that
there is a federal commitment to solve the situation in
Alaska.
Representative Croft observed that the sunset provision of
the bill would make it more difficult to negotiate with the
federal government with regard to Alaska's effort.
Commissioner Duncan noted that the bill would sunset in
three years. He added that the name change and the
preference are the tools that the State needs to negotiate
with the Veterans' Administration (VA). He urged that the
sunset be withdrawn.
Representative Croft asked the criteria used regarding how
veteran's homes work in other states.
Commissioner General Oates explained that each would is a
"state" veteran's home and that the full responsibility of
operating the home would rest on that state.
TAPE HFC 02 - 5, Side B
Commissioner General Oates continued, the intent is to use
existing resources to meet the needs of the veterans that
are pioneer eligible. Additionally, it is intended to
conduct the study to determine needs, then using a bond
process meet those needs. Other states have a single
veterans' facility, which meet all the needs.
Representative Hudson pointed out that in the other states,
most of the federal up-front costs go into the construction
of the homes.
General Oates stressed that the only way to begin a
solution, would be to make use of the existing resources.
Representative Croft questioned if there would exist a
supplanting problem. He pointed out that in other federal
programs it would be considered a "supplanting" problem.
The State is requesting federal funds without promising to
add any veterans.
General Oates acknowledged that concern and pointed out that
the Veterans Administration is looking for new solutions to
solve veteran's care concerns. The proposed bill is a step
forward in that process.
Co-Chair Mulder believed that the proposal could be an
augmentation rather than a supplantation.
Representative Croft pointed out that the committee
substitute did not raise the number of beds.
Commissioner Duncan explained that [pioneers] have
understood that they would be supplanting some general
funds. He questioned if the Department would have the
authority to add more beds. Language on Page 3, does not
provide the Department the ability to add more beds. He
recommended a "friendly amendment" to Line 29, inserting
"funded". That would allow the State to receive more money
and have more beds funded.
Co-Chair Mulder noted that he had anticipated that concern.
The legal drafters recommend inserting "occupied" beds to
address the concern.
Commissioner General Oates understood that the percentage
would be what it was at that point in time and not the
projected filled spaces.
Co-Chair Mulder questioned why Medicaid funding was not
being utilized.
Commissioner Duncan noted that it would require major
changes in the Pioneer Home statutes. It would require
doing away with the residency requirement and the 65-year-
old age requirement.
ED WILLIS, (TESTIFIED VIA TELECONFERENCE), ANCHORAGE,
stressed the importance of the legislation to the veterans
of the State. He expressed a preference for the Senate
version and asked that the committee substitute be amended
to fund the beds and remove the sunset provision. He noted
the number of veterans that live in the Eagle River area.
GORDON SEVERSON, (TESTIFIED VIA TELECONFERENCE), ANCHORAGE,
endorsed the comments made by Mr. Willis in support of
funding for additional beds. He thought that the proposed
committee substitute would maintain the status quo. He
spoke against the sunset provision. He thought that the VA
would be influenced to do more if the State of Alaska
indicated that more beds would be opened for veterans and
pioneers. Mr. Severson emphasized that additional beds would
help both groups.
STAN NELSON, (TESTIFIED VIA TELECONFERENCE), ANCHORAGE,
agreed with testimony given by the previous speakers. He
spoke against the sunset provision and pointed out that it
would take at least a year to gather statistics. He did not
think that the three-year sunset was sufficient.
MONTAFAY LANE, (TESTIFIED VIA TELECONFERENCE), PRESIDENT,
ALASKA ASSISTED LIVING HOME ASSOCIATION, NORTH POLE, asked
if disabled veterans could live in the Pioneer Home. She
questioned the definition of the "quality of care" and
"comprehensive care".
ALISON ELGEE, DEPUTY COMMISSIONER, DEPARTMENT OF
ADMINISTRATION, observed that skilled nursing is not
provided at the Pioneer Homes. If the veteran does not need
invasive procedures such as feeding tubes, they could be
cared for in assisted living, which is available at the
Pioneer Homes. The level of care would have to be assessed.
Ms. Lane asked if that would fall under the comprehensive or
enhanced care classification.
Ms. Elgee replied that determination would be made once
there was a full assessment of each individual.
Co-Chair Mulder asked if Ms. Lane had any recommendations
for the legislation before the Committee.
Ms. Lane asked to see that the definition for the Pioneer
Home is the same definition of care given for an assisted
living home. She urged that everyone be on the "same sheet
of paper".
Co-Chair Mulder advised that in Section 4, an amendment had
been made which provides that the level of care be the same.
Ms. Lane pointed out that under SB 73, assisted living homes
received a rate increase of $70 dollars a day for GR
indigent care. She asked if that amount were cut by 60%,
would the Pioneer Homes also receive the cut.
Representative Hudson recommended that Ms. Lane outline her
concerns and submit them to the Committee.
Ms. Lane offered to provide that information.
PAT CAROTHERS, CHAIR, ALASKA VETERANS ADVISORY COUNCIL
(AVAC), JUNEAU, agreed with the reduction of personnel on
the Council and agreed with the change of membership.
Co-Chair Mulder asked if there was a qualatative difference
between 11 or 13 members.
Mr. Carothers replied that many of the private sector
members are out fishing at the time the meetings happen so
the reduced number would be more workable.
Co-Chair Mulder MOVED to ADOPT Amendment 1, Page 3, Line 29,
insert "occupied" before "beds". There being NO OBJECTION,
it was adopted.
Representative Croft MOVED to ADOPT a conceptual Amendment
2, which would delete the sunset date. He spoke in support
of the amendment.
Co-Chair Mulder OBJECTED. He thought that the three-year
window would be sufficient and would allow the program to go
away if the federal support was not forthcoming.
A roll call vote was taken on the motion.
IN FAVOR: Croft, Foster
OPPOSED: Lancaster, Whitaker, Bunde, Harris, Hudson,
Williams, Mulder
Representative J. Davies and Representative Moses were not
present for the vote.
The MOTION FAILED (2-7).
LESLIE OREBAUGH, (TESTIFIED VIA TELECONFERENCE), SECRETARY,
ASSISTED LIVING ASSOCIATION FOR ALASKA, questioned if the
name change should be made permanent while the program is a
pilot program. Ms. Orebaugh agreed that the legislation
should contain a sunset provision.
Representative Hudson MOVED to report HCS CS SB 2001 (FIN)
out of Committee with individual recommendations and with
the accompanying fiscal note. There being NO OBJECTION, it
was so ordered.
HCS CS SB 2001 (FIN) was reported out of Committee with a
"do pass" recommendation and a new zero note by the House
Finance Committee.
ADJOURNMENT
The meeting was adjourned at 6:07 P.M.
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