Legislature(1997 - 1998)
04/21/1997 02:05 PM House FIN
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
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+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HOUSE FINANCE COMMITTEE
APRIL 21, 1997
2:05 P.M.
TAPE HFC 97 - 108, Side 1, #000 - end.
TAPE HFC 97 - 108, Side 2, #000 - end.
TAPE HFC 97 - 109, Side 1, #000 - end.
TAPE HFC 97 - 109, Side 2, #000 - #210.
CALL TO ORDER
Co-Chair Gene Therriault called the House Finance Committee
meeting to order at 2:05 P.M.
PRESENT
Co-Chair Hanley Representative Kelly
Co-Chair Therriault Representative Kohring
Representative Davies Representative Martin
Representative Davis Representative Moses
Representative Foster Representative Mulder
Representative Grussendorf
ALSO PRESENT
Representative William Williams; Jay Lively, Deputy
Commissioner, Department of Health and Social Services;
Kristen Bomengen, Assistant Attorney General, Department of
Law; John Sherwood, Director, Division of Medical
Assistance, Department of Health Social Services; Frank
Homan, Former Commissioner, Limited Entry Commission; Geron
Bruce, Legislative Liaison, Department of Fish and Game;
Suzanne Goodrich, (Testified via teleconference), Executive
Director, Catholic Social Services, Anchorage; Robin Brown,
(Testified via teleconference), Catholic Social Services,
Anchorage; Sylvia Carvajal, (Testified via teleconference),
Disability Law Center, Anchorage.
SUMMARY
HB 153 An Act relating to the eligibility of aliens for
state public assistance and medical assistance
programs affected by federal welfare reform
legislation; and providing for an effective date.
CS HB 153 (FIN) was reported out of Committee with
"do pass" recommendation and with four fiscal
notes by the Department of Health of Social
Services dated 2/24/97.
HB 198 An Act relating to regional dive fishery
development associations and to dive fishery
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management assessments; and providing for an
effective date.
CS HB 198 (FIN) was reported out of Committee with
"individual recommendations" with fiscal notes by
the Department of Fish and Game dated 4/10/97, the
Department of Revenue dated 4/10/97 and Commission
Fisheries (Limited) Entry Commission dated
4/10/97.
HOUSE BILL 153
"An Act relating to the eligibility of aliens for state
public assistance and medical assistance programs
affected by federal welfare reform legislation; and
providing for an effective date."
JAY LIVELY, DEPUTY COMMISSIONER, DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND
SOCIAL SERVICES, explained the differences between legal
immigrants and qualified aliens under Public Law 104-193.
Regarding a definition for a "legal immigrant", there are
two issues to consider. The definition of a legal immigrant
before the passage of P.L. 104-193 and the definition of a
"qualified alien" under P.L. 104-193.
Prior to passage of P.L. 104-193, an immigrant was
considered eligible for state and federal welfare benefits
if they met the definition of a legal immigrant. For this
purpose, a "legal immigrant" included all immigrants
lawfully admitted for permanent residence, and immigrants
permanently residing under color of law (PRUCOL). Prucol
aliens are considered legal permanent residents of the U.S.
even though they did not go through the process of applying
for and being admitted for permanent residence. Prucol
aliens are aliens living in the country with the knowledge
and permission of the Immigration and Naturalization Service
(INS) whose departure the INS does not contemplate
enforcing.
For public assistance purposes, P.L. 104-193 created a new
category of immigrants called "qualified aliens". Most
"qualified aliens" are ineligible for public assistance or
are only eligible if the state opts to cover them.
Immigrants who are not "qualified aliens" are immigrants
lawfully admitted for permanent residence, refugees,
individuals paroled into the U.S. for a least one year,
immigrants whose deportation is being withheld, certain
immigrants granted conditional entry, and certain battered
spouses and children.
Mr. Lively continued, under P.L. 104-193, certain categories
of "qualified aliens" remain eligible for public assistance
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regardless of their immigrant status. The exception
categories are: refugees and certain persons whose
deportation is being withheld for their first five years in
the U.S., individuals who have 40 quarters of coverage under
the Social Security system, and veterans and members of the
armed forces and their spouses and dependent children.
Immigrants who become U.S. citizens are not subject to
immigrant restrictions on public assistance eligibility.
Mr. Lively pointed out the Work Opportunity Reconciliation
Act (WORA) of 1996, significantly impacted immigrant
eligibility for public assistance. Recent federal changes
reduce or deny benefits to many legal aliens already in the
country as well as new arrivals. Alaska has the option of
continuing federal state assistance programs for aliens who
were in the United States before August 22, 1996.
Co-Chair Therriault explained the effect of Amendment #1
provided by the Governor. [Copy on file]. The amendment
would include certain battered aliens as qualified aliens.
The illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility
Act of 1996 contains a provision that amended the "qualified
alien" definition to include certain battered aliens by
adding a new subsection, 8 U.S.C. 164(c). The amendment
would incorporate the additional provision and avoid
inconsistencies with federal guidelines.
KRISTEN BOMENGEN, ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL, DEPARTMENT OF
LAW, stated that the 1996 Act included a provision that
added another group to be considered as qualified aliens in
a separate subsection (c). The amendment would incorporate
that language with federal law. She added that currently,
there is a pending technical amendment on the federal level
which is being considered.
Co-Chair Therriault asked if the Governor's amendment would
affect the fiscal note. Mr. Lively replied that the
Department does not know how many current aliens there are
in the program that have been victims of domestic violence.
The Department can not make that prediction as this time.
Mr. Lively noted that each members packet includes a
demographic chart indicating the alien population and age
break down. He explained that a legal alien was a person
who resides in the country legally and has arrived in the
U.S. through some kind of status.
(Tape Change HFC 97-108, Side 2).
Ms. Bomengen added that there is a group residing in the
United States under a "color of law", existing in a gray
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zone. They do not have a green card, although, these people
are U.S. citizens.
Co-Chair Hanley disclosed that his sister-in-law is a legal
alien. He understood that legal aliens would not be
eligible for benefits for five years. After that time, they
would be eligible. To become a legal alien, one must have a
sponsor who will certify that the person is able to get a
job or is willing to provide the job. He suggested that If
a person had a sponsor, they would not be on a welfare
program. The proposed legislation will grand-father in
those persons who arrived in the country before August 22,
1996.
Mr. Lively explained the chart which had been prepared by
the Department for the Committee meeting. The chart
identified fiscal impacts with passage of the legislation
and its' affect to the Adult Public Assistance (APA) portion
of the program. As of August, there were 800 legal
immigrants in that program. With passage of the bill, those
persons would be grand-fathered in. In future fiscal years,
there would be attrition with that group and the costs for
the APA program will decline. Without passage of the
legislation, the Alaska State Statutes would not exclude
legal aliens from Adult Public Assistance. The Department
would remain responsible for covering those individuals.
The effect to the Alaska Temporary Assistance Program (ATAP)
would be the same as the net effect to the APA program.
There are currently 820 people on that program. Without
passage the legislation, legal immigrants would still be
eligible for the program. Because of the federal five year
ban, there exists a complicating factor which would increase
the general fund expenditure. The federal government will
not participate for five years.
Mr. Lively spoke to the Medicaid program. State law
statutes work conversely for Medicaid than they do for the
other two programs. In Medicaid, a person needs to be
written into the statute to be eligible. State law
currently does not have legal immigrants written into
statute. These people have always been eligible because of
their relationship to the federal program. The federal
government, through the immigration laws has severed that
relationship. If HB 153 passes, the State would continue to
cover legal immigrants who arrived in the country before
August 22, 1996.
JOHN SHERWOOD, DIRECTOR, DIVISION OF MEDICAL ASSISTANCE,
DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND SOCIAL SERVICES, commented that the
Department's budget currently includes the spending for
legal immigrants. If the bill passes, the Department would
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continue to cover qualified aliens. There will be some case
load reductions over- time with that group as people newly
arriving in this country will experience a period of
ineligibility time. Because of the way in which State law
is written, this would occur whether or not the bill passes
due to the change in federal law.
If a choice is made to not cover qualified legal aliens, the
State would be required to continue to provide emergency
services through the Medicaid program. In addition, certain
aliens with specific health care needs would be eligible for
general medical assistance, State General Funds, an action
which would create a cost shift from a 50/50 program to a
general fund program.
(Tape Change HFC 97-109, Side 1).
Mr. Lively noted that if the bill does not pass, the
Department would quit serving all the aliens being
administered by Medicaid. There would be a savings off-set
indicated in the fiscal note. The State would continue to
serve the legal immigrants for emergency services. He
concluded that it is important that bills already accrued be
paid for services rendered.
Mr. Sherwood explained that the legal aliens would be
subject to the same five year bar in receiving Medicaid
benefits. The exception with Medicaid would be that those
persons who were not eligible for regular Medicaid benefits,
may still qualify for coverage of emergency medical
services. The legal aliens arrived before the date will
continue to receive benefits as they previously had.
Co-Chair Hanley asked if the federal government would
continue to provide matching funds for these people. Mr.
Lively stated that the federal government would continue to
pay their share of that cost for all those in this country
before August 22, 1996.
Co-Chair Hanley asked why there would be an attrition rate
in the Medicaid portion of the proposed bill, observing that
there had not been a reduction in the general fund for
Medicaid. Mr. Sherwood advised that the reduction was not
indicated on the fiscal note and would not be related to the
passage of the legislation. State Statute stipulates that
money for new immigrants can not be spent through the
regular Medicaid program.
Mr. Sherwood continued, because of timing uncertainties,
there are questions as to when the provisions would take
affect. The fact that the Department will continue to
experience substantial costs in providing emergency
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services, the decision was made to include that data in the
low growth assumptions developed. Mr. Lively pointed out
that thirty-five states have opted into a similar welfare
program that Alaska created with the welfare reform.
SUZANNE GOODRICH, (TESTIFIED VIA TELECONFERENCE), EXECUTIVE
DIRECTOR, CATHOLIC SOCIAL SERVICES, ANCHORAGE, shared
observations of the effect on immigrants with welfare
reform. She noted that there are two different groups that
would be affected. The first group are those that are
currently receiving some form of public assistance and whose
benefits will be cut off. The second are those who enter
the country after August 22nd, and would not qualify to
receive any assistance for five years.
She emphasized that it is important to know that the
immigrants being cut off of assistance are full-time
permanent residents. They are in the country lawfully and
have paid into social security but are not yet citizens.
Ms. Goodrich emphasized that citizenship is an emotional,
lengthy and difficult process, especially for someone with a
language barrier, disability or other challenges.
Currently, there are 3,105 individuals who will be affected
because they are receiving assistance. Within that group,
430 are children under the age of eighteen and 631 are over
the age of sixty-four. There are 801 needy people who are
aged, blind or disabled. Catholic Community Services has
been assisting the municipality in providing a survey of
immigrants who will be loosing their assistance. She
stressed that when considering legislation that will affect
immigrants, it is also critical to consider the impact of
welfare reform. She stressed that the local communities can
not do all the work and urged Committee members to consider
passage of HB 153 and the full impact of welfare reform on
the Alaskan immigrants.
Co-Chair Hanley asked if a person had been residing in the
United States for seventeen years, would they then qualify
under the five year federal guideline. Ms. Goodrich replied
that would depend upon if they had worked. Mr. Lively
stated that if you were an alien who had been in the states
and had exemptions from being excluded, and if that person
had been a veteran, or worked for forty quarters, then they
would continue to receive benefits even if the five year ban
was imposed.
ROBIN BROWN, (TESTIFIED VIA TELECONFERENCE), DIRECTOR,
CATHOLIC SOCIAL SERVICES, ANCHORAGE, added, that there was
an initial five year ban which would prohibit lawful
permanent residents from receiving public assistance. After
the first five years, an additional provision would apply
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and the sponsor's income would then be taken into
consideration. If that income was above the established
income standard, the immigrant would not be eligible for
public assistance.
She pointed out that a new affidavit of support form will
create a contract between the sponsor, the immigrant and the
government. If the immigrant seeks to apply for public
assistance, the government would then pursue collection from
the sponsor.
Co-Chair Hanley asked if someone who has been in the country
for twenty years would be able to continue to receive
benefits with this legislation. Ms. Brown replied that it
would depend on whether or not they had worked for the
specified amount of time. Mr. Sherwood clarified, that
should the legislation not pass, that alien would need to
fall into one of the exempt categories.
SYLVIA CARVAJAL, (TESTIFIED VIA TELECONFERENCE), PROJECT
COORDINATOR, DISABILITY LAW CENTER, ANCHORAGE, stated that
her firm was attempting to identify individuals who would be
loosing their federal benefits. The firm was also providing
assistance for those that qualify for naturalization. The
time frame for naturalization exceeds six months. She urged
Committee members to move the bill from Committee.
Co-Chair Therriault MOVED to adopt Amendment #1. There
being NO OBJECTION, it was adopted.
Co-Chair Hanley MOVED to report CS HB 153 (FIN) out of
Committee with individual recommendations and with the
accompanying fiscal notes. There being NO OBJECTION, it was
so ordered.
CS HB 153 (FIN) was reported out of Committee with a "do
pass" recommendation and with four fiscal notes by the
Department of Health of Social Services dated 2/24/97.
HOUSE BILL 198
"An Act relating to regional dive fishery development
associations and to dive fishery management
assessments; and providing for an effective date."
Representative G. Davis MOVED that work draft, CS HB 198
(FIN), #0-LS0415\C, Utermohle, 4/21/97, be the version
before the Committee. There being NO OBJECTION, it was
adopted.
REPRESENTATIVE WILLIAM WILLIAMS stated that the Southeast
Alaska dive fishermen have been attempting for the past
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decade to establish orderly, consistent and stable fisheries
capable of providing dependable economic opportunity for
themselves, their families and the communities. The urgency
to create an economically viable fishery is highlighted by
the recent closure of the regions largest employer and other
related negative economic effects on the economy.
Substantial untapped dive fishery resources have been
identified through diver and underwater activities for over
a decade. The dive fishery resources appear to be abundant
and diverse throughout the region. The potential for future
jobs for harvesters, processors and support industries is
considerable. The temporary fishery opening is based on a
one time source of funding that will expire June 30, 1997.
In order to continue the fishery and to develop the other
dive fishery resources, a stable source of funding would be
necessary.
Representative Williams pointed out that HB 198 would not
mandate but allow the creation of regional dive fishery
development associations for the purpose of developing dive
fisheries and would create a working relationship between
the divers and the Alaska Department of Fish and Game
(ADF&G) to develop annual operating plans. The legislation
is permissive and once a regional association is formed,
divers can hold a ballot election of all interim-use permit
holders to answer questions.
If approved by election, divers would be assessed, the State
would collect and the Legislature may appropriate the
assessment back to ADF&G. The appropriation would be based
on the mutually developed annual operating budget and plan.
ADF&G would then fund the specific purposes outlined in the
legislation for the regional dive fishery development
association and ADF&G.
Representative Williams concluded that HB 198 would be a
positive step forward by the private sector to support
economic development and diversification without seeking a
general fund appropriation. He urged the Committee's
support of the bill.
GERON BRUCE, LEGISLATIVE LIAISON, DEPARTMENT OF FISH AND
GAME, testified on the proposed legislation. He noted that
the Department does appreciate the divers coming forward
requesting the creation of a new fishery, however, the
Department is concerned that expectations for increased
funding are being created by this business which might not
materialize. The development of the new fisheries will come
at the expense of existing fisheries.
Mr. Bruce continued, it does not appear that the program
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will qualify for the designated program receipt funding as
it currently is written in the bill. Without such
designation, these expenditures will appear as additional
general fund expenditures. Without it being an increment,
funding for the new fisheries will have to come from the
existing fisheries.
He added, the bill would establish a close relationship
between a particular group of harvesters and the Department
of Fish and Game. There are a number of concerns which the
public may have on developing resources. The bill would
establish a special relationship, and the Department is
concerned with maintaining the balance of managing public
resources for a broad cross section of public interests.
Mr. Bruce suggested that the Committee consider a sunset
being added to the legislation which would force later
reconsideration of the issue. Co-Chair Therriault asked if
the Department was in support of the legislation. Mr. Bruce
advised that would depend on how some other bills moved
through the Legislature this year, and specifically, how
program receipt authority would be addressed.
Representative Williams noted that he would not support a
sunset clause being added to the legislation.
Co-Chair Therriault questioned if the legislation would
gradually move into a limited entry permit system.
Representative Williams stated that he did not know until
all the information regarding need had been received. This
is the first year of the moratorium.
Co-Chair Therriault questioned why language had been
included specifying interim-use permits. He recommended
that language be held for future legislatures to determine
if it should be transferred to that kind of system.
Representative Williams recommended that inclusion would
save a step in repeating the process.
Representative G. Davis believed that a rough estimate could
be provided regarding the resource cost of management. Mr.
Bruce commented that the Department estimates at this time,
the expenditures will be about $250 thousand dollars per
year.
Representative J. Davies voiced concern with the way the
money is budgeted. He suggested that people supporting the
legislation should follow it closely and support program
receipts being used. He MOVED a conceptual amendment that
revenues containing various percentages within the bill be
classified as program receipts. Co-Chair Therriault
OBJECTED.
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Representative J. Davies noted that he would be amenable to
changing the concept by adding that language to the intent.
Co-Chair Therriault suggested that Representative J. Davies
offer a Letter of Intent. He pointed out that currently,
the Senate has been drawing the line on program receipts
that are contractual, recommending more one-time items
rather than on-going functions.
A roll call vote was taken on the MOTION to adopt the
conceptual amendment.
IN FAVOR: Moses, J. Davies, Grussendorf
OPPOSED: G. Davis, Foster, Kelly, Kohring,
Therriault
Representatives Martin, Mulder and Hanley were not present
for the vote.
The MOTION FAILED (3-5).
(Tape Change HFC 97-109, Side 2).
Representative Williams provided a brief synopsis of the sea
urchin history in Alaska. Today there are 500 sea urchin
divers in Southeast Alaska. Co-Chair Therriault noted that
over the next few years, there may be more people who want
to enter into that fishery and that those persons would be
precluded unless they buy one of the existing permits.
Representative Grussendorf informed Committee members that
in creating a moratorium, there becomes a block of time to
assess and analyze what stock is available and if that stock
could sustain a certain level of fisheries. Then the
determination can be made regarding how many people should
be involved in that fishery. The interim permit increases
the number of persons becoming involved, although, the
moratorium would be approaching in three or four years. A
point system would be established to determine how many
people be allowed in the fishery in order to keep it
healthy.
Co-Chair Therriault asked if the limited entry process would
be identical to that used in the salmon fishery.
Representative G. Davis spoke to his concerns with ownership
of the resource. Representative Williams stressed that HB
198 does not address limited entry. Co-Chair Therriault
reiterated concern with removing the Legislature from
deliberation cycle in deciding whether a limited entry
permit should be granted.
FRANK HOMAN, FORMER COMMISSIONER, LIMITED ENTRY COMMISSION,
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advised that the moratorium passed last year requires the
Commissioner to provide a thorough study of the dive
fishery, with a provision that they look at a non-
transferable type arrangement. Those things will be studied
for the next three years.
Representative G. Davis MOVED to report CS HB 198 (FIN) out
of Committee with individual recommendations and with the
accompanying fiscal notes. There being NO OBJECTION, it was
so ordered.
CS HB 198 (FIN) was reported out of Committee with
"individual recommendations" and with a fiscal note by the
Department of Fish and Game dated 4/10/97, and zero fiscal
notes by the Department of Revenue dated 4/10/97 and the
Commercial Fish Entry Commission dated 4/10/97.
ADJOURNMENT
The meeting adjourned at 3:30 P.M.
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