Legislature(1993 - 1994)
04/25/1993 12:10 PM House FIN
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HOUSE FINANCE COMMITTEE
April 25, 1993
12:10 p.m.
TAPE HFC 93-124, Side 2, #000 - end.
TAPE HFC 93-125, Side 1, #000 - end.
TAPE HFC 93-125, Side 2, #000 - end.
TAPE HFC 93-126, Side 1, #000 - end.
CALL TO ORDER
Co-Chair Larson called the House Finance Committee to order
at 12:10 p.m.
PRESENT
Co-Chair Larson
Co-Chair MacLean Representative Martin
Vice-Chair Hanley Representative Navarre
Representative Brown Representative Parnell
Representative Foster Representative Therriault
Representative Grussendorf
Representative Hoffman was absent from the meeting.
ALSO PRESENT
Mike Greany, Director, Legislative Finance Division; Jack
Fargnoli, Office of Budget and Management; Shelby Stastny,
Director, Office of Budget and Management; Kent Swisher,
Alaska Municipal League; Dean Guaneli, Chief, Assistant
Attorney General, Department of Law; Charles Cole, Attorney
General, Department of Law; Ken Erickson, Staff, Senator
Pearce; Lieutenant Chris Stockard, Department of Public
Safety.
SUMMARY INFORMATION
SB 97 "An Act relating to enhanced 911 emergency
reporting systems; and providing for an effective
date."
HCS CSSB 97 (FIN) was reported out of Committee
with a "no recommendation" and with a zero fiscal
note by the Department of Commerce and Economic
Development, dated 2/24/93.
SB 100 "An Act making supplemental and special
appropriations for the expenses of state
government; making, amending, and repealing
capital and operating appropriations; and
providing for an effective date."
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SB 100 was HELD in Committee.
HB 124 "An Act relating to grants to municipalities,
named recipients, and unincorporated communities;
establishing capital project matching grant
programs for municipalities and unincorporated
communities; establishing a local share
requirement for capital project grants to
municipalities, named recipients, and
unincorporated communities; and providing for an
effective date."
CSHB 124 (FIN) was reported out of Committee with
"no recommendation" and with a zero fiscal note by
the House Finance Committee and with two fiscal
impact notes by the House Finance Committee.
HB 125 "An Act making appropriations for capital project
matching grant programs; and providing for an
effective date."
CSHB 125 (FIN) was reported out of Committee with
"no recommendation".
HB 187 "An Act authorizing the interception of private
communications related to the commission of
certain criminal offenses; making related
amendments to statutes relating to eavesdropping
and wiretapping; relating to the penalty for
violation of statutes relating to eavesdropping
and unauthorized interception, publication, or use
of private communications; and providing for an
effective date."
CSHB 187 (FIN) was reported out of Committee with
"no recommendation" and with a zero fiscal note by
the Department of Law, dated 3/1/93; a zero fiscal
note by the Department of Administration, dated
3/1/93; a fiscal impact note by the Alaska Court
System; a fiscal impact note by the Department of
Public Safety, dated 4/2/93; and with a fiscal
impact note by the Department of Administration,
dated 3/1/93.
HB 188 "An Act relating to forfeiture of certain
property; and providing for an effective date."
HB 188 was HELD in Committee.
SENATE BILL NO. 100
"An Act making supplemental and special appropriations
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for the expenses of state government; making, amending,
and repealing capital and operating appropriations; and
providing for an effective date."
Co-Chair Larson reviewed sections held open in SB 100.
SB 100 was held in committee.
HOUSE BILL NO. 124
"An Act relating to grants to municipalities, named
recipients, and unincorporated communities;
establishing capital project matching grant programs
for municipalities and unincorporated communities;
establishing a local share requirement for capital
project grants to municipalities, named recipients, and
unincorporated communities; and providing for an
effective date."
Co-Chair MacLean provided members a with work draft for HB
124 (FIN), 8-GH1018\O (copy on file). Co-Chair MacLean
provided members with AMENDMENT 1 (Attachment 1). She
explained that Amendment 1 would create a sliding scale and
change 8 percent to 7 percent. Co-Chair MacLean MOVED to
ADOPT AMENDMENT 1. There being NO OBJECTION, it was so
ordered.
Representative Brown presented members with AMENDMENT 2
(Attachment 2). Amendment 2 would define "capital project"
as a project with a cost exceeding $10.0 thousand dollars...
with an anticipated life exceeding one year..." She
suggested that the Amendment be amended to $5.0 thousand
dollars a year over two years.
SHELBY STASTNY, DIRECTOR, OFFICE OF BUDGET AND MANAGEMENT
did not have objections to Representative Brown's amendment
or amendment to the Amendment. Co-Chair Larson expressed
concern that school districts and municipalities would use
the matching grant for deferred maintenance. Representative
Martin expressed concern that the $5.0 thousand dollar
eligibility requirement would result in more administrative
costs.
Representative Parnell asked if the Internal Revenue Code
definition of capital project would apply. Mr. Stastny
replied that the Internal Revenue Code defines "capital
project" as any expenditure that is expected to last more
than a year and/or extend the life of an asset.
Representative Grussendorf noted that the definition of
capital project contained in Amendment 2 would only apply to
the Capital Matching Program.
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Co-Chair Larson stressed that municipalities can handle
smaller maintenance projects. Representative Brown asserted
that small communities need flexibility.
Representative Brown MOVED to AMEND Amendment 2 to insert
"$5.0" and delete "$10.0" and delete "one" and insert "two"
years. Representative Martin OBJECTED. A roll call vote
was taken on the motion.
IN FAVOR: Parnell, Brown
OPPOSED: Grussendorf, Foster, Hanley, Martin, Parnell,
Therriault, MacLean, Larson
Representatives Hoffman and Navarre were not present for the
vote.
The MOTION FAILED (2-8).
Representative Brown MOVED to ADOPT AMENDMENT 2.
Representative Martin OBJECTED. A roll call vote was taken
on the motion.
IN FAVOR: Therriault, Brown, Foster, Grussendorf, MacLean
OPPOSED: Martin, Parnell, Hanley, Larson
Representatives Hoffman and Navarre were not present for the
vote.
The MOTION PASSED (5-4).
Representative Brown provided members with AMENDMENT 3
(Attachment 3). She explained that the Amendment would
acknowledge that the state is not responsible for operation
of projects. She discussed Amendment 3. Members discussed
the affect of the amendment on CSHB 82 (FIN).
Representative Brown WITHDREW AMENDMENT 3.
Co-Chair MacLean expressed concern that page 4, line 20 and
23 needs further clarification to identify money spent as
capital matching money.
JACK FARGNOLI, OFFICE OF MANAGEMENT AND BUDGET, OFFICE OF
THE GOVERNOR observed that language should be adopted to
define that "10 percent of the total amount of money spent
on land acquisition" applies to the appropriation or grant.
Representative Brown provided members with AMENDMENT 4
(Attachment 4). She explained that Amendment 4 will clarify
that no more than 10 percent of state money will go to the
administrative cost for the whole project. Representative
Brown MOVED to ADOPT AMENDMENT 4. There being NO OBJECTION,
it was so ordered.
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Representative Brown provided members with AMENDMENT 5
(Attachment 5). She explained that Amendment 5 will forward
fund the program. The Office of Management and Budget would
have the summer months to establish regulations.
Representative Brown MOVED to ADOPT AMENDMENT 5. Co-Chair
MacLean OBJECTED. A roll call vote was taken on the motion.
IN FAVOR: Brown
OPPOSED: Grussendorf, Navarre, Hanley, Martin, Parnell,
Therriault, MacLean, Larson
The MOTION FAILED (8-1).
Representatives Foster and Hoffman were not present for the
vote.
Representative Brown MOVED to ADOPT AMENDMENT 6 (Attachment
6). She MOVED to AMEND the Amendment to delete "originally"
and "insert or other assets". She stated that the amendment
to Amendment 5 would allow equipment obtained through state
grants to be sold. There being NO OBJECTION, it was so
ordered. Representative Brown MOVED to ADOPT AMENDMENT 5 as
amended. Co-Chair Larson spoke in support of the amendment.
There being NO OBJECTION, it was so ordered.
Co-Chair MacLean provided members with AMENDMENT 7
(Attachment 7).
(Tape Change, HFC 93-125, Side 1)
Mr. Fargnoli explained that Amendment 7 is a "housekeeping"
amendment which clarifies the definition of "local share".
Co-Chair MacLean MOVED to ADOPT AMENDMENT 7.
Co-Chair Larson asked who would be responsible for cost
overruns. Mr. Stastny stressed that each community has the
option of investing from their pool of funds. If a
community has money in their account the state would provide
a match at the same ratios.
Co-Chair MacLean referred to fiscal notes accompanying HB
124. Mr. Fargnoli discussed fiscal notes for the Department
of Community and Regional Affairs, Department of
Administration and municipal impact. He noted that matching
requirements will add to administrative costs in the
Department of Community and Regional Affairs.
Representative Navarre express concern that the departments
will not have sufficient personnel to administrator the
grants efficiently. He asked if Davis Bacon laws regarding
pay scale cause difficulties. Mr. Fargnoli assured him that
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Davis Bacon laws will not cause problems.
Representative Grussendorf asked if the Department of
Transportation and Public Facilities would be involved in
projects. Mr Fargnoli agreed that the Department of
Transportation and Public Facilities could be affected by
projects but did not anticipate increased budget needs.
Representative Foster MOVED to ADOPT the fiscal notes
associated with CSSB 88 (FIN) for as House Finance Committee
fiscal notes for HB 124. There being NO OBJECTION, it was
so ordered.
Representative Martin MOVED to report CSHB 124 (FIN) out of
Committee with individual recommendations and with the
accompanying fiscal notes. There being NO OBJECTION, it was
so ordered.
CSHB 124 (FIN) was reported out of Committee with "no
recommendation" and with a zero fiscal note by the House
Finance Committee and with two fiscal impact notes by the
House Finance Committee.
Representative Hanley expressed his desire to see
administrative costs deducted from the grant. Mr. Stastny
observed that overhead costs for the capital matching grants
are absorbed in the affected agencies' budget. Co-Chair
Larson agreed that increased agency costs should be included
in the grant process. He stressed that it is the
Committee's intent that costs be born by the grant program.
There being NO OBJECTION, CSHB 124 (FIN) was moved from the
Committee.
HOUSE BILL NO. 187
"An Act authorizing the interception of private
communications related to the commission of certain
criminal offenses; making related amendments to
statutes relating to eavesdropping and wiretapping;
relating to the penalty for violation of statutes
relating to eavesdropping and unauthorized
interception, publication, or use of private
communications; and providing for an effective date."
DEAN GUANELI, CHIEF ASSISTANT ATTORNEY, DEPARTMENT OF LAW
discussed HB 187. He explained that federal wire tapping
law would not cover all occasions that the Department wants
to pursue. He noted that the federal government will not
get involved with murder cases unless interstate
jurisdiction is involved. He observed that before a wire
tap is established someone from the Department of Law must
be involved. He emphasized that the standards apply as in
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issuing a search warrant. He maintained that wire tapping
will be the last resort employed in an investigation.
CHARLES COLE, ATTORNEY GENERAL, DEPARTMENT OF LAW pointed
out that wire tapping is allowed only in cases of murder in
the first or second degree, kidnapping or a class A or
unclassified felony drug offense. He noted that detailed
requirements are contained on pages 2 - 4. He reviewed
requirements and limitations of wire taps. He assured
members that adequate safeguards exist.
Representative Brown referred to page 11, line 25. She
asked what procedures will be followed prior to interception
of communications in electronic storage. She pointed out
that the electronic storage could mean voice mail and
bulletin board communications. She expressed concern that
the legislation is being broadened to included computers.
Mr. Guaneli stated that the procedures applying to paper
storage would apply to computer storage.
Representative Brown referred to page 9, line 20. She asked
the meaning of "nonconstitutional violation". Mr. Guaneli
stated that the intent is that the misapplication of one of
the specific provisions required in the issuing of the
warrant will not give rise to a lawsuit for damages unless
there is a violation of an individual's constitutional
rights. He noted that the provisions are detailed.
Evidence collected improperly would not be admissable in
trial.
(Tape Change, HFC 93-125, Side 2)
Representative Grussendorf asked what would happen if an
investigation uncovered a crime which is not covered by the
wire tapping warrant. Attorney General Cole noted that page
8, line 19 covers unanticipated interceptions.
Representative Brown provided members with AMENDMENT 1
(Attachment 8). She explained that the amendment would make
available to the Governor and the Legislature information
regarding the use of wire tapping. She pointed out that
confidential information would not be involved. Attorney
General Cole did not object to the amendment.
Representative Parnell MOVED to AMEND the Amendment to
delete "for the Governor and the Legislature" and insert
"and make available to the public." Representative Martin
OBJECTED. A roll call vote was taken on the motion.
IN FAVOR: Grussendorf, Brown, Foster, Hanley, Parnell,
Therriault, MacLean, Larson
OPPOSED: Martin
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Representatives Hoffman and Navarre were not present for the
vote.
The MOTION PASSED (8-1).
Representative Brown MOVED to ADOPT AMENDMENT 1 as amended.
Co-Chair Larson OBJECTED. A roll call vote was taken on the
motion.
IN FAVOR: Grussendorf, Brown, Foster, Hanley, Parnell,
Therriault
OPPOSED: Martin, MacLean, Larson
Representatives Hoffman and Navarre were not present for the
vote.
The MOTION PASSED (6-3).
Representative Brown MOVED to ADOPT AMENDMENT 2 (Attachment
9). She stated that the amendment would clarify that
cellular telephone communications be included. Attorney
General Cole spoke against the amendment. He maintained
that cellular phones would already be included.
Representative Brown replied that page 16, line 6 excludes
"any communication that is readily accessible to the general
public." She noted that cellular phones are accessible to
the general public. She asserted that the amendment is
needed to prevent exclusion of cellular phones. Attorney
General Cole disagreed that cellular phone transmissions are
"readily" accessible. Representative Parnell spoke in
support of Amendment 2. There being NO OBJECTION, Amendment
2 was adopted.
Representative Brown MOVED to ADOPT AMENDMENT 3 (Attachment
10). She explained that Amendment 3 would include cordless
phones. She maintained that cordless phones are excluded on
page 15, line 29. She stressed that private phone calls
should be kept private unless procedures are followed to
obtain a wire tap warrant. Attorney General Cole spoke
against Amendment 3. Representative Martin OBJECTED. A
roll call vote was taken on the motion.
IN FAVOR: Brown, Grussendorf, Foster, Parnell, MacLean
OPPOSED: Hanley, Martin, Therriault, Larson
Representatives Hoffman and Navarre were not present for the
vote.
The MOTION PASSED (5-4).
Representative Brown MOVED to ADOPT AMENDMENT 4 to insert
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"Except for a party to a private conversation." Attorney
General Cole agreed that the amendment clarifies existing
statutes. There being NO OBJECTION, it was so ordered.
Representative Parnell referred to page 11, line 14. He
asked if the requirement to file reports would endanger
officers. Attorney General Cole replied that the Alaska
State Troopers have no objection to the requirement.
Representative Foster asked for further clarification of
unanticipated interception. Mr. Guaneli noted that officers
are required to minimize interceptions not directly related
to the investigation.
Representative Brown referred to page 8, line 22. She
suggested that approval for unanticipated interceptions be
limited to crimes covered by AS 12.37.010. Representative
Hanley argued for a broader interpretation. Representative
Grussendorf noted that search warrants are harder to obtain
and that evidence is more tangible. Attorney General Cole
suggested that "felony" be inserted on page 8, line 22. Co-
Chair Larson MOVED to AMEND Amendment 4 to insert "a
felony". There being NO OBJECTION, it was so ordered.
Co-Chair Larson MOVED to ADOPT AMENDMENT 4 as amended.
There being NO OBJECTION, it was so ordered.
Representative Martin MOVED to report CSHB 187 (FIN) out of
Committee with individual recommendations and with the
accompanying fiscal notes. There being NO OBJECTION, it was
so ordered.
CSHB 187 (FIN) was reported out of Committee with "no
recommendation" and with a zero fiscal note by the
Department of Law, dated 3/1/93; a zero fiscal note by the
Department of Administration, dated 3/1/93; a fiscal impact
note by the Alaska Court System; a fiscal impact note by the
Department of Public Safety, dated 4/2/93; and with a fiscal
impact note by the Department of Administration, dated
3/1/93.
HOUSE BILL NO. 188
"An Act relating to forfeiture of certain property; and
providing for an effective date."
Co-Chair Larson noted that HB 188 would utilize asset
forfeiture as a tool for combating drugs and violent crimes.
Attorney General Cole suggested that page 7, line 2 be
amended to read, "did not know before parting with the
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property that the property would be used in the manner that
resulted in it being subject to forfeiture." He noted that
present law does not allow for the forfeiture of "real"
property. He emphasized that drugs are produced and grown
on "real" property. He clarified, in response to a question
by Co-Chair MacLean, that the amendment would prevent the
owner from forfeiture of rental property if they did not
have knowledge of the crime. Representative Grussendorf
pointed out that the property can still be seized until the
owner proves his innocence.
Attorney General Cole asserted that the legislation will
curtail drug activity. Co-Chair MacLean suggested that on
page 3, line 16 "indictment" be deleted and "conviction"
inserted. Mr. Guaneli observed that other states do not
require convictions. He noted that conviction is not
dependent on whether an act took place.
(Tape Change, HFC 93-126, Side 1).
Attorney General Cole continued to discuss the forfeiture of
property for use in drug crimes.
Co-Chair MacLean referred to page 6, lines 11 - 18. She
noted that up to 90 percent of the net value of seized
property could be transferred to one or more agencies or
political subdivisions of the state for use in furtherance
of the administration of justice. Representative
Grussendorf expressed concern that transfers would be under
the jurisdiction of the commissioner of the Department of
Public Safety. Mr. Guaneli discussed procedures used by
federal law enforcement agencies. Attorney General Cole
that the federal government currently takes real property
seized in state cases.
Representative Brown referred to testimony by Shelley Owens
before the House Judiciary Committee. She noted that
forfeiture of a persons bank account after indictment could
eliminate the defendants ability to obtain independent
defense counsel which would increase the burden on the
Public Defender. Representative Brown quoted Ms. Shelley as
saying, "one-half of people who lose property under
forfeiture laws have not been charged with a crime, and 80
percent of people who lose their property don't or can't
contest the forfeitures."
Attorney General Cole emphasized that, if HB 188 is adopted,
the state would initiate proceedings rather than deferring
all drug forfeitures to the federal government.
Co-Chair MacLean referred to page 1, lines 8 - 10, CSHB 188
(JUD). Attorney General Cole stressed that before property
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is forfeited the owner must know that the property is being
used in an illegal drug activity. Representative Brown
argued that the burden of proof is on the person whose
property is being seized. Mr. Guaneli clarified that
property can be seized before guilt is ascertained.
Representative Foster asked if HB 188 would go beyond
federal forfeiture laws. He noted that grand juries
generally support indictments. He did not support seizure
on indictment.
Representative Brown noted the difficulty of evicting
tenants that may be involved in drug traffic.
Co-Chair Larson MOVED to ADOPT language amending page 7,
line 2 to read, "did not know before parting with the
property that the property would be used in the manner that
resulted in it being subject to forfeiture." Representative
Brown noted that the amendment would include property from
which the owner is not yet parted. There being NO
OBJECTION, it was so ordered.
Co-Chair MacLean MOVED to AMEND on page 3, line 16, to
delete "indictment" and insert "conviction". Representative
Hanley observed that the grand jury does not convict. Co-
Chair MacLean MOVED to AMEND the motion to a conceptual
amendment to make the legislation applicable after
conviction not indictment. Representative Martin maintained
that a criminal would have time to hide assets. Attorney
General Cole stated that the amendment would make the
legislation ineffectual. Representative Martin OBJECTED to
the motion. Co-Chair MacLean asked that HB 188 be HELD in
committee. Co-Chair MacLean WITHDREW HER AMENDMENT.
HB 188 was HELD in Committee.
SENATE BILL NO. 97
"An Act relating to enhanced 911 emergency reporting
systems; and providing for an effective date."
SB 97 was in a subcommittee consisting of chair
Representative Parnell with members Representatives Brown
and Foster. Representative Parnell provided members with
work draft for HCS CSSB 97(FIN), #8-LS029\I, dated 4/22/93
(Attachment 11).
KEN ERICKSON, LEGISLATIVE STAFF, SENATOR PEARCE stated that
SB 97 would provide:
1) Immediate visual display of the location and
telephone number of the caller.
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2) Automatic routing to the appropriate emergency
response unit.
3) Faster response time.
4) Curtailment of abuses of the emergency system by
documenting callers.
Mr. Erickson stated that Senator Pearce is in support of the
work draft for HCS CSSB 97(FIN), #8-LS029\I, dated 4/22/93.
Representative Parnell noted that the Subcommittee addressed
the 911 surcharge imposed by municipalities to pay for
enhanced 911 service. Mr. Erickson noted that page 5, line
4 the work draft defines village as containing 25 or more
inhabitants.
Representative Parnell explained that the work draft sunsets
the surcharge after 3 years. He added that "may include the
extraterritorial jurisdiction of a municipality in
accordance with AS 29.35.020" was added on page 3, line 25.
He explained that the amendment would allow statewide
planning by the Telecommunications Information Council to
continue.
Representative Parnell MOVED to ADOPT work draft for HCS
CSSB 97(FIN), #8-LS029\I, dated 4/22/93. There being NO
OBJECTION, it was so ordered.
Representative Brown provided members with AMENDMENT 1
(Attachment 12). She explained that the amendment would
create an advisory committee to ascertain the feasibility of
a statewide enhanced 911 system. Mr. Erickson noted the
sponsor's concern that the amendment would result in a
fiscal impact note.
LIEUTENANT CHRIS STOCKARD, DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SAFETY
testified that the Department does not anticipate that the
amendment would result in additional cost to the Department.
He stated that the Department is proceeding with statewide
planning.
Representative Parnell spoke in opposition to the amendment.
He stated that the amendment would be redundant. A roll
call vote was taken on the motion.
IN FAVOR: Brown
OPPOSED: Foster, Grussendorf, Hanley, Martin, Parnell,
Therriault, MacLean, Larson
Representatives Hoffman and Navarre were not present for the
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vote.
The MOTION FAILED (1-9).
Representative Parnell MOVED to report HCS CSSB 97 (FIN) out
of Committee with individual recommendations and with the
accompanying fiscal notes. Representative Brown maintained
that the legislation will work against the creation of a
statewide 911 enhanced system. There being NO OBJECTION, it
was so ordered.
HCS CSSB 97 (FIN) was reported out of Committee with "no
recommendation" and with a zero fiscal note by the
Department of Commerce and Economic Development, dated
2/24/93.
ADJOURNMENT
The meeting adjourned at 4:05 p.m.
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