Legislature(2019 - 2020)ADAMS ROOM 519

04/04/2019 09:00 AM FINANCE

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Audio Topic
09:22:55 AM Start
09:23:46 AM HB39 || HB40
09:24:23 AM Amendments
10:56:00 PM Adjourn
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
-- Recessed to 6:30 pm --
+= HB 39 APPROP: OPERATING BUDGET/LOANS/FUNDS TELECONFERENCED
Heard & Held
+= HB 40 APPROP: MENTAL HEALTH BUDGET TELECONFERENCED
Heard & Held
Amendments
+ Bills Previously Heard/Scheduled TELECONFERENCED
                  HOUSE FINANCE COMMITTEE                                                                                       
                       April 4, 2019                                                                                            
                         9:22 a.m.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
9:22:55 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CALL TO ORDER                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Foster called the House Finance Committee meeting                                                                      
to order at 9:22 a.m.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Representative Neal Foster, Co-Chair                                                                                            
Representative Tammie Wilson, Co-Chair                                                                                          
Representative Jennifer Johnston, Vice-Chair                                                                                    
Representative Dan Ortiz, Vice-Chair                                                                                            
Representative Ben Carpenter                                                                                                    
Representative Andy Josephson                                                                                                   
Representative Gary Knopp                                                                                                       
Representative Bart LeBon                                                                                                       
Representative Kelly Merrick                                                                                                    
Representative Colleen Sullivan-Leonard                                                                                         
Representative Cathy Tilton                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
None                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
ALSO PRESENT                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Representative Lance  Pruitt; Representative  Louise Stutes;                                                                    
Representative Bryce  Edgmon, Representative  Grier Hopkins;                                                                    
Representative  Matt   Claman;  Representative   Adam  Wool;                                                                    
Representative Sarah Rasmussen.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
SUMMARY                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
HB 39     APPROP: OPERATING BUDGET/LOANS/FUNDS                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
          HB 39 was HEARD and HELD in committee for further                                                                     
          consideration.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
HB 40     APPROP: MENTAL HEALTH BUDGET                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
          HB 40 was HEARD and HELD in committee for further                                                                     
          consideration.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Foster reviewed the meeting agenda.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE BILL NO. 39                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     "An  Act making  appropriations for  the operating  and                                                                    
     loan  program  expenses  of state  government  and  for                                                                    
     certain   programs;    capitalizing   funds;   amending                                                                    
     appropriations;  making appropriations  under art.  IX,                                                                    
     sec. 17(c),  Constitution of the State  of Alaska, from                                                                    
     the constitutional  budget reserve fund;  and providing                                                                    
     for an effective date."                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE BILL NO. 40                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     "An  Act making  appropriations for  the operating  and                                                                    
     capital    expenses   of    the   state's    integrated                                                                    
     comprehensive   mental    health   program,   including                                                                    
     supplemental  appropriations;  and   providing  for  an                                                                    
     effective date."                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
9:23:46 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair   Foster  relayed   the  committee   was  currently                                                                    
addressing   the  numbers   section  of   amendments  [note:                                                                    
language section  and additional numbers  section amendments                                                                    
were considered during the April  3, 2019, 9:30 a.m. meeting                                                                    
-see separate minutes for detail].                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
^AMENDMENTS                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
9:24:23 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative Carpenter MOVED to ADOPT Amendment H DOE 4                                                                       
(copy on file):                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     Early Learning Coordination                                                                                                
     Best Beginnings, and Pre-K Grants                                                                                          
     H  DOE   4  -  Eliminate  Parents   as  Teachers,  Best                                                                    
     Beginnings, and Pre-K Grants                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     This  would  eliminate  all   funding  for  Parents  as                                                                    
     Teachers, Best Beginnings, and Pre-K Grants.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     1004 Gen Fund {UGF) -2.231.7                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Ortiz OBJECTED.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Representative Carpenter  reviewed the amendment  that would                                                                    
eliminate  the Parents  As  Teachers,  Best Beginnings,  and                                                                    
Pre-K grants for  a total of $2.2 million.  He detailed that                                                                    
Parents As Teachers was about  $711,000, Best Beginnings was                                                                    
approximately  $320,000, and  the  remainder was  associated                                                                    
with  Pre-K  grants.  He  elaborated  that  the  Parents  As                                                                    
Teachers program served about  50 families, which equated to                                                                    
approximately  $4,700 per  family.  He did  not believe  the                                                                    
funds  were  fairly  distributed throughout  the  state.  He                                                                    
opined  early  learning  coordination  was an  area  of  the                                                                    
budget that needed  to be reduced in order for  the state to                                                                    
be fiscally  responsible. He noted  it was not  a reflection                                                                    
on the value of the programs.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Sullivan-Leonard  supported  the  amendment.                                                                    
She  acknowledged  that the  programs  were  vital, but  she                                                                    
believed there were private  sector organizations that could                                                                    
step  up and  fund the  services. She  wanted to  remove the                                                                    
programs  from government  oversight  and  to encourage  the                                                                    
private sector to provide funding.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Representative Josephson strongly  opposed the amendment. He                                                                    
stated  it   was  unfair   to  say   that  Alaska   was  not                                                                    
accomplishing what  was needed compared to  other states and                                                                    
then  eliminate  Pre-K (when  other  states  had Pre-K).  He                                                                    
remarked   that   much  of   the   issue   was  related   to                                                                    
socioeconomics,   which  he   believed   was  an   important                                                                    
consideration  when looking  at  achievement. He  referenced                                                                    
the National  Assessment of Educational Progress  Scores and                                                                    
explained  that students  scored well  in the  eighth grade,                                                                    
which was  a reflection  of catching  up. He  continued that                                                                    
students scored poorly at the  fourth grade level, which was                                                                    
a  reflection  of the  state's  need  for the  programs.  He                                                                    
believed the funds were a great investment.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Ortiz  expressed opposition to the  amendment. He                                                                    
underscored the  value of Pre-K  programs. He  reported that                                                                    
90 percent  of a  child's brain development  occurred before                                                                    
age  five.   He  expounded  that  for   a  relatively  small                                                                    
investment,  huge  benefits  were   gained  such  as  school                                                                    
readiness,  stronger  social skills,  parental  involvement,                                                                    
and  identification  and  early  intervention  for  at  risk                                                                    
behaviors. The  immediate economic  impact for  parents with                                                                    
access to  care for  their children  earned an  increased $2                                                                    
billion in  wages. He elaborated that  studies showed access                                                                    
to  Pre-K  could deliver  a  7  percent increase  in  future                                                                    
economic earnings;  the figure jumped  up to 13  percent for                                                                    
at-risk  children. He  believed the  value and  benefit from                                                                    
the  investment  was apparent.  He  stated  that as  funding                                                                    
adjustments were made, the issue  was about where priorities                                                                    
resided. He  reported he  could stand  up for  education all                                                                    
day long.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
9:28:56 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Foster opposed the amendment.  He noted that he had                                                                    
supported   the  previous   amendment   the  committee   had                                                                    
considered  [on 4/3/19]  to increase  spending to  flat fund                                                                    
Parents   As  Teachers.   He  did   not  support   the  full                                                                    
elimination of funding.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Ortiz MAINTAINED his OBJECTION.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Representative Carpenter provided wrap  up on the amendment.                                                                    
He thought the committee was  faced with a false dilemma. He                                                                    
believed  it was  a personal  responsibility for  parents to                                                                    
provide early education  to their kids. He  stated that part                                                                    
of the problem he heard from  teachers was about the lack of                                                                    
parent  participation in  the  education  system. He  stated                                                                    
there  was not  a constitutional  responsibility to  educate                                                                    
Pre-K. He stressed the  constitutional responsibility was to                                                                    
provide  education   for  K-12.  He  underscored   that  the                                                                    
responsibility  to educate  children  prior to  Kindergarten                                                                    
resided with parents.  He reasoned that the  state could not                                                                    
afford  to  do  everything  it  wanted;  therefore,  it  was                                                                    
necessary  to pare  spending  down to  what  was needed.  He                                                                    
recognized the  importance of Pre-K education.  He suggested                                                                    
that people could continue to  educate their Pre-K children,                                                                    
but the method would look different than in the past.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
9:31:16 AM                                                                                                                    
AT EASE                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
9:31:42 AM                                                                                                                    
RECONVENED                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Foster  reported there was  a technical  issue with                                                                    
the amendment.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilson  MOVED to ADOPT  Amendment 1 to  Amendment H                                                                    
DOE  4.  She  explained   the  amendment  would  delete  the                                                                    
$2,231,700  and  insert  a   reduction  of  $1,994,700.  The                                                                    
amendment  reflected  the   $237,000  decrease  adopted  the                                                                    
previous day.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Foster  stated his  understanding that  Amendment H                                                                    
DOE  4 in  its original  form would  remove more  funds than                                                                    
actually   existed  for   the   increment.   He  asked   for                                                                    
verification that the proposed  amendment to Amendment H DOE                                                                    
4 would fix the error.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilson affirmed  that Amendment H DOE  4 would take                                                                    
out  money that  did  not exist  because  the committee  had                                                                    
previously  removed $237,000.  The  amendment reflected  the                                                                    
sponsor's intention with Amendment H DOE 4.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
There being NO  OBJECTION, Amendment 1 to Amendment  H DOE 4                                                                    
was ADOPTED.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
9:32:48 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Ortiz  MAINTAINED his  OBJECTION to  the adoption                                                                    
of Amendment H DOE 4 as AMENDED.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
A roll call vote was taken on the motion.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
IN  FAVOR:  Merrick,  Tilton,  Carpenter,  Sullivan-Leonard,                                                                    
Wilson                                                                                                                          
OPPOSED: Josephson, Knopp, LeBon, Johnston, Ortiz, Foster                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
The  MOTION to  adopt Amendment  H DOE  4 as  amended FAILED                                                                    
(5/6).                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
9:33:48 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative Carpenter  MOVED to  ADOPT Amendment H  DOE 5                                                                    
(copy on file):                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     Education    Support   and    Administrative   Services                                                                    
     (continued) Pre-Kindergarten Grants                                                                                        
     H DOE 5 - Pre-Kindergarten Grants Deleted                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     Eliminates Pre-K Grants.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
     1004 Gen Fund (UGF) -2,000.0                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Ortiz OBJECTED.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Representative   Carpenter  reviewed   the  amendment.   The                                                                    
amendment would  eliminate Pre-K  grants for  a total  of $2                                                                    
million.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Ortiz MAINTAINED his OBJECTION.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
A roll call vote was taken on the motion.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
IN   FAVOR:   LeBon,  Merrick,   Sullivan-Leonard,   Tilton,                                                                    
Carpenter, Wilson                                                                                                               
OPPOSED: Knopp, Josephson, Ortiz, Johnston, Foster                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
The MOTION  PASSED (6/5). There being  NO further OBJECTION,                                                                    
Amendment H DOE 5 was  ADOPTED. [Note: Action on Amendment H                                                                    
DOE 5  was later  rescinded and  failed to  be adopted  on a                                                                    
vote of (4/7). See 2:15 p.m. for detail.]                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
9:35:32 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative Carpenter  MOVED to  ADOPT Amendment H  DOE 6                                                                    
(copy on file):                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     Alaska State Council on the Arts                                                                                           
     H DOE 6 - Eliminate the State Council on the Arts                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     This would delete all funding for the Alaska State                                                                         
     Council on the Arts for the purposes of outsourcing or                                                                     
     privatizing the agency.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     1002 Fed Rcpts (Fed)     ?806.6                                                                                            
     1003 GF/Match (UGF)      ?693.5                                                                                            
     1005 GF/Prgm(OGF)        ?10.9                                                                                             
     1007 I/A Rcpts (Other)   ?7.0                                                                                              
     11OB Stat Desig (Other) ?2,321.6                                                                                           
     1145 AIPP  Fund (Other) ?30.0                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Representative Josephson OBJECTED.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Representative   Carpenter   reviewed  the   amendment.   He                                                                    
appreciated the  conversation that  occurred on  the subject                                                                    
in  subcommittee.  He  believed  the  council  was  a  great                                                                    
success  story  for  the  state. He  pointed  out  that  the                                                                    
council  had  done  a good  job  finding  alternate  private                                                                    
funding  resources  throughout  the   state  over  time.  He                                                                    
elaborated  that private  donations  currently exceeded  the                                                                    
amounts of  state and federal  funding from  previous years.                                                                    
He  believed  that  in a  time  when  fiscal  responsibility                                                                    
mattered and  the state was faced  with difficult decisions,                                                                    
the organization  could stand on  its own via  donations. He                                                                    
thought it made sense to reduce state funding.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair   Wilson  addressed   the  program's   success  and                                                                    
discussed   the  opportunity   it  provided   students.  She                                                                    
detailed that the program brought  in specialists to educate                                                                    
students about  culture in Alaska  in addition to  the arts.                                                                    
She  pointed out  that  for  the $693,500  -  she hoped  the                                                                    
department  could consider  looking  at other  funds in  the                                                                    
future  - the  state  received about  $3.2  million to  help                                                                    
students improve.  She reasoned  that not all  students were                                                                    
academic,  and  the  state had  cut  back  opportunities  in                                                                    
schools. She  encouraged the department  to look at  ways to                                                                    
increase funds  from other sources  in the coming  year. She                                                                    
suggested asking  schools to potentially  put some  funds in                                                                    
as well in the future. She supported the program.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
9:38:01 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Josephson opposed  the amendment.  He shared                                                                    
that  in the  1960s President  Johnson created  the National                                                                    
Endowment  of the  Arts to  form  what he  called the  Great                                                                    
Society. He believed the  legislature occasionally needed to                                                                    
have a "city  on the hill" concept in its  mind. He spoke to                                                                    
the importance of thinking about the greater good.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Representative  LeBon  was  opposed  to  the  amendment.  He                                                                    
supported  the  program.  He informed  members  the  federal                                                                    
component was conditional on state  support and leveraged $9                                                                    
for  every  $2  in  unrestricted general  funds  (UGF).  The                                                                    
program had existed  for over 30 years  and had consistently                                                                    
grown  its  funding  by  securing  money  from  the  private                                                                    
sector. He  stated the  program was an  example of  what was                                                                    
working.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Sullivan-Leonard  supported  the  amendment.                                                                    
She believed there  had been many years  for the legislature                                                                    
to discuss  which programs  funded by  the state  worked and                                                                    
which did not.  She stated the program was  an example where                                                                    
philanthropy  (e.g.  the  Rasmussen Foundation)  could  help                                                                    
support the  State Council  on the Arts.  She stated  it was                                                                    
not  the time  to say  the issue  had not  been sufficiently                                                                    
discussed. She  emphasized that the  budget had  been talked                                                                    
about  repeatedly. She  thought the  council was  an example                                                                    
where  a reduction  could be  made, and  the private  sector                                                                    
could  assist with  funding. She  believed there  were other                                                                    
sources  in the  private  sector to  fund  the program.  She                                                                    
wanted to make  clear reductions to areas  where the private                                                                    
sector could fill in.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Knopp  appreciated members  recognizing  the                                                                    
value of a  program that was working. He was  opposed to the                                                                    
amendment.  He   noted  it  was   rare  to  see   the  state                                                                    
contributing  one-third to  a program  that was  funded two-                                                                    
thirds from  other funding  sources. He  noted that  the act                                                                    
passed in  1965 [National  Endowment of the  Arts] specified                                                                    
that federal  funding participation was contingent  on state                                                                    
funding participation.  He explained that without  state and                                                                    
federal  participation,   foundations  contributing  funding                                                                    
(over $2  million in the case  of the Alaska Council  on the                                                                    
Arts) were disinclined to participate.  He stressed that the                                                                    
council  was  one  of  the  few  programs  that  had  worked                                                                    
extremely well.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
9:41:49 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Johnston noted  that Representative Carpenter was                                                                    
on  the education  subcommittee and  believed he  understood                                                                    
the level of  contributions the council had  brought in. She                                                                    
detailed that  the council had  received private  funds from                                                                    
sources mentioned by  Representative Sullivan-Leonard. There                                                                    
had been active  engagement by the council to  bring in non-                                                                    
governmental funds. She appreciated the council's efforts.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Foster expressed  his support  for the  Council on                                                                    
the  Arts and  the  outreach  work it  did  in rural  Alaska                                                                    
related to suicide prevention.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Carpenter  stated  that the  council's  good                                                                    
work could  continue, but in  a different form.  He reasoned                                                                    
that just because  it had been done one way  did not mean it                                                                    
could  not be  done another  way. He  understood there  were                                                                    
state  funds tied  with federal  funds; however,  he pointed                                                                    
out that  the federal government  was $23 trillion  in debt.                                                                    
He stated that  the state's spending habits  were carried on                                                                    
the  backs  of  the  children. He  stressed  the  state  was                                                                    
addicted to  looking to  state and  federal entities  to pay                                                                    
for its programs.  He believed the private  sector was fully                                                                    
capable of  meeting the  mission on  its own.  He emphasized                                                                    
there was a price to be paid to continue state spending.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
9:44:11 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Ortiz MAINTAINED the OBJECTION.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
A roll call vote was taken on the motion.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
IN FAVOR: Merrick, Tilton, Carpenter, Sullivan-Leonard                                                                          
OPPOSED: LeBon,  Ortiz, Knopp, Josephson,  Johnston, Wilson,                                                                    
Foster                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
The MOTION to adopt Amendment H DOE 6 FAILED (4/7).                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
9:44:55 AM                                                                                                                    
AT EASE                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
9:45:27 AM                                                                                                                    
RECONVENED                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilson WITHDREW  Amendment H DOE 7  (copy on file).                                                                    
She explained  the amendment  pertained to  [the elimination                                                                    
of] funding for  the aquatic center at  Mount Edgecumbe. She                                                                    
detailed that  the increment was receipt  authority allowing                                                                    
Mount Edgecumbe to charge community  members to use the pool                                                                    
to help  fund operating  costs; therefore, she  withdrew the                                                                    
amendment.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
9:46:05 AM                                                                                                                    
AT EASE                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
9:54:09 AM                                                                                                                    
RECONVENED                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Representative Carpenter  WITHDREW Amendment  H DOE  8 (copy                                                                    
on file).                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Representative Carpenter  MOVED to  ADOPT Amendment H  DOE 9                                                                    
(copy on file):                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     Alaska State Libraries, Archives and Museums                                                                               
     Library Operations                                                                                                         
     H DOE 9 - Facility Operations and Maintenance Support                                                                      
     Reduction                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     Reduce appropriation for facilities maintenance,                                                                           
     support and operations.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     1004 Gen Fund (UGF) -215.1                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Ortiz OBJECTED.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Representative Carpenter  reviewed the amendment  that would                                                                    
reduce  funding  for  facility  operations  and  maintenance                                                                    
support  for  the  Alaska   State  Libraries,  Archives  and                                                                    
Museums in Juneau for a total of $215,000.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Ortiz  opposed the amendment. He  shared that the                                                                    
museum had been an  investment made by previous legislatures                                                                    
and  had become  a primary  element in  the presentation  of                                                                    
Alaskan  culture and  identity to  the millions  of tourists                                                                    
who  visit Juneau.  He underscored  that the  investment was                                                                    
one of the community's main  attractions. He stressed it was                                                                    
paramount to  continue funding in  the museum that  had been                                                                    
invested in by  the state. He explained  the reduced funding                                                                    
would  greatly reduce  the state's  ability to  maintain its                                                                    
own investment.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Wilson  asked  the   amendment  sponsor  how  much                                                                    
revenue was  raised by the  library entrance fee.  She asked                                                                    
how  much  the state  funds  offset  the visitor  fees.  She                                                                    
explained that  often fees  went into  state UGF,  making it                                                                    
difficult for legislators to understand the fund source.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
9:57:49 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Josephson  stated  that  he  would  consider                                                                    
supporting the  amendment if the  sponsor could  describe in                                                                    
detail why  the facility could  survive the cut,  what would                                                                    
not  happen  as  a  result  of the  cut,  and  why  facility                                                                    
operations   and   maintenance   support   would   be   okay                                                                    
notwithstanding the cut.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Johnston asked where  the funds were coming from.                                                                    
She  looked  at  the  budget   and  observed  the  different                                                                    
allocations   for  library   operations,  archives,   museum                                                                    
operations, and  the library  facilities and  maintenance in                                                                    
Juneau.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Ortiz added  that the request for  the money came                                                                    
from  the administration  on the  last day  the subcommittee                                                                    
met. The  monies were essential  to "keep the lights  on" in                                                                    
the facility.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
9:59:32 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Carpenter   was  not  surprised   about  the                                                                    
discussion to  maintain a library  with state  funds because                                                                    
that was  the way the  things had  always been paid  for. He                                                                    
appreciated the point that 1  million tourists came through.                                                                    
He pointed out the increment under discussion was $215,000.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Ortiz  interjected that  the state had  1 million                                                                    
tourists.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Representative Carpenter believed it  was a false dilemma to                                                                    
say there  was an important  museum that could only  be kept                                                                    
open  by  spending  state  money.  He  stated  that  in  the                                                                    
business world, the method was  not appropriate. He believed                                                                    
there were  other ways  to pay for  a museum  including user                                                                    
fees. He  stated the amendment  was not a reflection  on the                                                                    
museum or  its importance. He  stressed there was  a deficit                                                                    
of $1.6 billion that would  be taken from individuals in the                                                                    
form of  taxes or  by reducing the  PFD. He  emphasized that                                                                    
was not what the people  wanted. He believed it was possible                                                                    
to determine a different way to do business.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Ortiz MAINTAINED his OBJECTION.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
A roll call vote was taken on the motion.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
IN FAVOR: Merrick, Tilton, Carpenter, Sullivan-Leonard                                                                          
OPPOSED: Ortiz,  Josephson, Johnston, Knopp,  LeBon, Wilson,                                                                    
Foster                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
The MOTION to adopt Amendment H DOE 9 FAILED (4/7).                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
10:01:41 AM                                                                                                                   
AT EASE                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
10:10:35 AM                                                                                                                   
RECONVENED                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Ortiz MOVED to ADOPT  Amendment H DOE 10 (copy on                                                                    
file):                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     Education Support and Administrative Services Child                                                                        
     Nutrition                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     GA 3/27 Additional Federal Receipts for Donated                                                                            
     Commodity Fee Fund                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     This request  increases the  authority for  the donated                                                                    
     commodity  fee fund,  fund  1014. This  fund  is not  a                                                                    
     sweepable fund and was created  per 7CFR section 250.17                                                                    
     specifically to collect and  track receipts from school                                                                    
     districts  for  administrative  costs. Any  funds  that                                                                    
     were unobligated in previous  years remain in the fund.                                                                    
     In  previous years,  the  Department  of Education  and                                                                    
     Early Development  has not needed  additional authority                                                                    
     in the  fund because total expenditures  did not exceed                                                                    
     revenues.  The department  anticipates expenditures  to                                                                    
     increase  by  approximately  $100.0  due  to  increased                                                                    
     shipments  resulting  from  the U.S.  Trade  Mitigation                                                                    
     Program. Increasing budget authority  in this fund will                                                                    
     allow  the department  to properly  spend  out of  this                                                                    
     fund to offset these increased expenditures.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     1014 Donat Comm (Fed)    100.0                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilson OBJECTED for discussion.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Ortiz  reviewed the  amendment that was  a result                                                                    
of  a  request from  the  governor  (after the  subcommittee                                                                    
concluded)  for  a  $100,000  increase  in  federal  receipt                                                                    
authority to support child nutrition.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Tilton  asked  what fund  code  1014  "Donat                                                                    
Comm" stood for in the amendment explanation.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
10:11:46 AM                                                                                                                   
AT EASE                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
10:12:17 AM                                                                                                                   
RECONVENED                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair  Ortiz  replied  that   "Donat  Comm"  stood  for                                                                    
donated commodities.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Representative   Carpenter  addressed   the  importance   of                                                                    
ensuring  children had  food. However,  he highlighted  that                                                                    
the  country was  paying  $500 billion  in  interest in  the                                                                    
current year on its federal  debt. He believed the situation                                                                    
was due  to good ideas  requiring increased spending  at the                                                                    
federal  level for  myriad programs.  He elaborated  that it                                                                    
resulted  from every  community in  the country  deciding it                                                                    
was  a good  idea to  spend $100,000  on various  things. He                                                                    
believed at  some point it  was necessary to say  enough was                                                                    
enough. He  wanted the  state to live  within its  means and                                                                    
quit looking  to the federal  and state governments  for the                                                                    
funds. He stated that the money  came from taxes, not out of                                                                    
thin air. He  opposed the amendment because  he believed the                                                                    
state should wean itself from federal funds.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative Josephson stated he  could not fix Washington                                                                    
D.C.'s problems.  He pointed out  that no one  in Washington                                                                    
would take note  of Alaska choosing not  to accept $100,000.                                                                    
He reasoned  if the logic  was taken to the  extreme, Alaska                                                                    
would choose  not to accept  any highway money.  He stressed                                                                    
that  former U.S.  Senator Ted  Stevens would  have accepted                                                                    
the money for the state. He agreed with that philosophy.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Wilson read  from the  amendment explanation  [see                                                                    
indented explanation  above]. She  was trying to  figure out                                                                    
if there was any food provided  by the funds. She thought it                                                                    
sounded  like  the  state  may  need the  funds  to  meet  a                                                                    
tracking obligation required by  the federal government. She                                                                    
had  originally believed  the amendment  related to  donated                                                                    
food  similar  to  the  Food Bank.  She  asked  whether  the                                                                    
increment provided  food for  children or  represented funds                                                                    
for administrative costs for  certain requirements the state                                                                    
was  forced  to comply  with  in  order to  receive  federal                                                                    
funds.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
10:16:45 AM                                                                                                                   
AT EASE                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
10:18:46 AM                                                                                                                   
RECONVENED                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair   Foster   stated   his  understanding   that   the                                                                    
subcommittee  did not  have a  chance to  vet the  increment                                                                    
because the administration had  submitted the amendment very                                                                    
recently. He  asked for  verification that  Vice-Chair Ortiz                                                                    
was   carrying  the   amendment  as   a  courtesy   for  the                                                                    
administration.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair  Ortiz   responded  affirmatively.   He  provided                                                                    
follow up to previous  questions. He explained the increment                                                                    
was a federal block  grant that provided commodities funding                                                                    
for food  and nutrition  programs such as  school breakfast,                                                                    
national school  lunch, special milk,  child and  adult care                                                                    
food  programs, summer  food  services, education  training,                                                                    
and emergency food assistance. The  particular item was cash                                                                    
in  lieu  of  donated  food  from  the  U.S.  Department  of                                                                    
Agriculture (USDA) to help distribute food donated by the                                                                       
USDA.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilson WITHDREW her OBJECTION.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
There being NO further OBJECTION, Amendment H DOE 10 was                                                                        
ADOPTED.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
10:20:36 AM                                                                                                                   
AT EASE                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
10:20:49 AM                                                                                                                   
RECONVENED                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Representative Merrick MOVED to ADOPT Amendments H DEC 1,                                                                       
3, 5, and 9 (copy on file):                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     Administration                                                                                                             
     Administrative Services                                                                                                    
     H DEC 1 - Replace Ocean Ranger Fees with Commercial                                                                        
     Passenger Vessel Environmental Compliance Fund                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     A fund source change is required to maintain programs                                                                      
     while deleting the Ocean Ranger Program.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
     1166 Vessel Com (Other) 19.6                                                                                               
     1205 Oen Ranger (Other) -19.6                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     Administration                                                                                                             
     State Support Services                                                                                                     
     H DEC 3 - Replace Ocean Ranger Fees with Commercial                                                                        
     Passenger Vessel Environmental Compliance Fund                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     A fund source change is required to maintain programs                                                                      
     while deleting the Ocean Ranger Program.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
     1166 Vessel Com (Other) 87.1                                                                                               
     1205 Oen Ranger (Other) -87.1                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     Environmental Health                                                                                                       
     H DEC 5 - Replace Ocean Ranger Fees with Commercial                                                                        
     Passenger Vessel Environmental Compliance Fund                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     A fund source change is required to maintain programs                                                                      
     while deleting the Ocean Ranger Program.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
     1166 Vessel Com (Other) 314.l                                                                                              
     1205 Oen Ranger (Other) -314.1                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     Water                                                                                                                      
     Water Quality, Infrastructure Support & Financing                                                                          
     H DEC 9 - Repeal Ocean Ranger Program                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     Repeal the Ocean Ranger Program.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     1205 Oen Ranger (Other) -3,426.0                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Ortiz OBJECTED.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilson asked if the  objection was to combining the                                                                    
amendments or to the content of the amendments.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
10:21:27 AM                                                                                                                   
AT EASE                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
10:21:59 AM                                                                                                                   
RECONVENED                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Foster   asked  for   a  clarification   from  the                                                                    
amendment sponsor on her motion.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Representative Merrick explained her  motion was to hear the                                                                    
amendments  as a  bundle, given  they all  pertained to  the                                                                    
Ocean Ranger  Program. She detailed  that Amendment H  DEC 1                                                                    
would  eliminate the  program and  the others  [Amendments H                                                                    
DEC 3, 5, and 9] were fund source changes.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
There being NO OBJECTION, it  was so ordered; the amendments                                                                    
would be considered together.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
10:22:48 AM                                                                                                                   
AT EASE                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
10:23:58 AM                                                                                                                   
RECONVENED                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Foster  clarified that  in the  future if  a member                                                                    
wanted  to bundle  amendments they  did not  need to  make a                                                                    
motion to do so.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Merrick  Representative   Merrick  MOVED  to                                                                    
ADOPT  Amendments  H  DEC  1,  3, 5,  and  9  [see  indented                                                                    
amendments above for detail].                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Ortiz OBJECTED.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Merrick explained  that  Amendment  H DEC  1                                                                    
would eliminate  the Ocean Ranger  Program. She read  from a                                                                    
statement:                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     The  Ocean  Ranger  Program was  created  by  a  ballot                                                                    
     initiative in 2006 and is funded  by a $4 per berth fee                                                                    
     on all  commercial passenger vessels  with 250  or more                                                                    
     berths. While  this initiative  was well  intended, the                                                                    
     program has  proven to be ineffective.  Eliminating the                                                                    
     ocean  rangers will  not  have  significant impacts  on                                                                    
     regulation  of cruise  ships in  Alaskan waters.  Using                                                                    
     funds    from   the    Commercial   Passenger    Vessel                                                                    
     Environmental    Compliance   Fund,    permitting   and                                                                    
     compliance staff  will still  monitor cruise  ships for                                                                    
     compliance  with  state   wastewater  and  air  quality                                                                    
     permits,  as  well   as,  regulations  through  records                                                                    
     reviews, in-port  inspections, opacity  monitoring, and                                                                    
     vessel tracking.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Ortiz  spoke to his objection.  He confirmed that                                                                    
the  program  had  started  as   a  result  of  a  citizens'                                                                    
initiative in  2006. He  referenced the  amendment sponsor's                                                                    
statement that the program was  proven to be ineffective. He                                                                    
wanted to see  statistics backing up the  statement that the                                                                    
program was  ineffective. He knew  that few issues  had been                                                                    
identified when  ships carrying ocean rangers  were boarded.                                                                    
He addressed  the issue with  an example of a  state trooper                                                                    
riding in  a person's  car. He  considered whether  a driver                                                                    
would be more likely to  follow rules and regulations when a                                                                    
state trooper was  in their car versus when  a state trooper                                                                    
was  not around.  He believed  logically  drivers would  all                                                                    
follow  the rules  more  regularly if  a  state trooper  was                                                                    
accompanying  them. He  believed the  fact that  the rangers                                                                    
had  not  identified  many  issues over  the  years  was  an                                                                    
indication the program was working.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair  Ortiz addressed  issues  facing  the oceans.  He                                                                    
detailed that  ocean temperatures had been  rising and there                                                                    
was research into  the impact of the  temperature changes in                                                                    
relation to fish  and game resources. There  had been issues                                                                    
of illegal dumping  by cruise ships in the past.  He did not                                                                    
believe there  was evidence  to back  up the  statement that                                                                    
the program was ineffective.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
10:28:08 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Representative   Josephson   remarked   on   the   sponsor's                                                                    
statement  that the  amendment would  end  the Ocean  Ranger                                                                    
Program. He believed statute was  necessary was necessary to                                                                    
eliminate  a  program. He  noted  that  the amendment  would                                                                    
defund the program, but not eliminate it.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Representative Merrick  agreed and  noted that  the governor                                                                    
had a bill that would eliminate the program.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative Josephson noted that  the program was part of                                                                    
a 2006  initiative and was  one of the only  remaining parts                                                                    
of the  initiative. He  detailed that  previous legislatures                                                                    
and legislators had  seen fit to maintain  the program since                                                                    
2006. His primary concern was  that as with many industries,                                                                    
even  though  there were  good  actors  contributing to  the                                                                    
economy,   they  generally   respond   to  enforcement   and                                                                    
regulation. He  noted that industry  did not  necessarily do                                                                    
the  right thing  without  regulation  and enforcement.  For                                                                    
example, the  Juneau Empire reported on  September 13 [2018]                                                                    
that the cruise  ship industry had been fined  for eight air                                                                    
violations.  He   elaborated  that  two  months   back,  the                                                                    
national  media  reported  studies  that  air  pollution  on                                                                    
cruise  ship  decks  rivaled  that  of  Chinese  cities.  He                                                                    
believed it  was incumbent on  the state to have  someone on                                                                    
the ships instead of relying only on remote enforcement.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Representative Josephson  shared that he was  most disturbed                                                                    
by  the  past  release   of  photochemicals  into  Southeast                                                                    
Alaskan  waters. He  detailed that  the industry  had fought                                                                    
the  Environmental  Protection  Agency on  emission  control                                                                    
areas  (a 200-mile  zone  where heavy  fuels  should not  be                                                                    
used). He underscored  that the industry would  push as hard                                                                    
as it  could. He believed it  was likely to push  harder and                                                                    
get  away with  more without  an observer  on ships.  He was                                                                    
opposed to the amendment.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
10:30:27 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Representative Sullivan-Leonard  looked at the  action items                                                                    
from the subcommittee and did  not see an elimination of the                                                                    
program but  a transfer  to the Commercial  Passenger Vessel                                                                    
Environmental Compliance Fund.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Representative Merrick  replied that rather than  going into                                                                    
the fund for the Ocean Ranger  Program the money would go to                                                                    
the  Commercial  Passenger Vessel  Environmental  Compliance                                                                    
Fund to facilitate monitoring  by the department [Department                                                                    
of Environmental Conservation] that  the ocean rangers would                                                                    
have done.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Sullivan-Leonard  supported  the  amendment.                                                                    
She explained that cruise ship  oversight would not go away.                                                                    
She stated that  there may not be an ocean  ranger going out                                                                    
to  ensure  cruise  ships were  under  compliance,  but  she                                                                    
believed  monitoring  would always  be  in  place under  the                                                                    
Department of  Environmental Conservation (DEC)  and through                                                                    
federal regulations.  She remarked that cruise  ships paid a                                                                    
high tax in Alaska, in  addition to numerous regulations and                                                                    
rules the industry was required to follow.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Representative Tilton supported  the amendment. She reported                                                                    
the  committee had  heard from  DEC that  in 2018  there had                                                                    
been 1,579 inspections conducted  on cruise ships in Alaskan                                                                    
waters  and  out of  those  inspections,  ocean rangers  had                                                                    
identified 66  potential noncompliant items that  fell under                                                                    
the  jurisdiction of  the state's  cruise ship  program. She                                                                    
reported  that if  the  program was  repealed  it would  not                                                                    
eliminate  cruise  ship  inspections.  She  elaborated  that                                                                    
permitting and  compliance staff  would still  be monitoring                                                                    
cruise ships for compliance with  wastewater and air quality                                                                    
permitting and  regulations through the records  review, in-                                                                    
port inspections, and vessel tracking.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
10:33:44 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Representative Carpenter supported  the amendment. He stated                                                                    
the  program  put  one  person on  vessels  to  prevent  bad                                                                    
behavior  on large  ships. He  remarked that  the state  was                                                                    
spending  money   and  requiring  companies  to   adhere  to                                                                    
regulation that burdened their ability  to do business. At a                                                                    
time when the state was crunched  for money and it wanted to                                                                    
encourage economic  growth, he  thought it was  necessary to                                                                    
look  for things  that hindered  the growth  of the  private                                                                    
sector. He  stated the program was  marginally effective and                                                                    
not  necessary to  prevent pollution  and adhere  to federal                                                                    
and state  regulations. He supported the  elimination of the                                                                    
program to allow businesses to thrive.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Johnston stated that from  a hearing in the other                                                                    
body [the  Senate] she had  the impression that  the rangers                                                                    
were not  necessarily Alaskan residents.  She asked  for the                                                                    
breakdown of Alaskan  residents versus non-residents working                                                                    
as ocean rangers in 2018.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Merrick  replied  she   had  been  told  the                                                                    
rangers were all from out of state.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
10:35:43 AM                                                                                                                   
AT EASE                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
10:46:39 AM                                                                                                                   
RECONVENED                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair  Ortiz  recognized  there  had  been  significant                                                                    
discussion   about  the   Ocean  Ranger   Program  and   the                                                                    
amendment. He  reminded members that  they were  not talking                                                                    
about any impact  on state finances. The  program was funded                                                                    
by  the  $4  per  passenger fee.  He  underscored  that  the                                                                    
amendment  would   not  reduce  the  funds   collected  from                                                                    
passengers. He stated  it was not a valid  argument to claim                                                                    
that  the  program's  elimination  would  make  things  more                                                                    
competitive for  private enterprise because the  money would                                                                    
be  collected  one  way  or  the  other.  He  addressed  the                                                                    
previous  question  about who  the  ocean  rangers were  and                                                                    
whether they were all from  out-of-state. He clarified there                                                                    
were at least four individuals  living in Ketchikan who were                                                                    
employed by the program.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair  Ortiz addressed  the  value of  the program.  He                                                                    
stated  that  the  number  of  issues  identified  by  ocean                                                                    
rangers  reflected success.  He explained  that if  a person                                                                    
was  on board  a  ship monitoring  its  activities, it  made                                                                    
sense there were not many  problems on that particular ship.                                                                    
He  acknowledged  there  would  continue  to  be  regulatory                                                                    
activities by  DEC, but  only in port.  He stressed  that no                                                                    
one knew  what a ship was  doing when it was  away from port                                                                    
unless someone  was onboard monitoring. The  program was not                                                                    
perfect, but  there was a  deterrent effect by  the presence                                                                    
of  the  ocean  rangers.  He emphasized  that  adopting  the                                                                    
amendment  would   not  save  the   state  or   cruise  ship                                                                    
passengers funds.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
10:50:51 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair  Johnston highlighted  her concern  about how  to                                                                    
factor  in  bills  that  were   pending  during  the  budget                                                                    
process.  She   understood  from  the   Legislative  Finance                                                                    
Division that if the decrement  was passed there would still                                                                    
be enough funds in the fund  for the program to continue for                                                                    
the remainder of  the year. She continued that  if the issue                                                                    
was not  addressed in the  bill form  before the end  of the                                                                    
[fiscal]   year,   the   situation  where   the   bill   had                                                                    
independence from the budget system would still exist.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Wilson thought  they  needed to  be careful  about                                                                    
talking about industry. She  appreciated the cruise industry                                                                    
and  did not  believe that  it  tried to  dirty the  state's                                                                    
waters in  any way. She  believed businesses did not  try to                                                                    
break the  law or go  around the  law. She believed  some of                                                                    
the  potential  violations  had probably  related  to  paper                                                                    
documentation or other things.  She explained that DEC would                                                                    
still have to  monitor the industry (as required  by the EPA                                                                    
and  Alaskans). She  believed the  passage of  the amendment                                                                    
would force the  state to determine the good  and bad things                                                                    
about the  program and  to learn how  DEC would  continue to                                                                    
monitor in  a different  fashion and what  it would  mean to                                                                    
industry. She  voiced her appreciation  for the  cruise ship                                                                    
industry  that  was  responsible for  bringing  millions  of                                                                    
travelers to Alaska in a safe way.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
10:53:26 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Ortiz MAINTAINED his OBJECTION.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Representative Merrick  provided wrap up on  the amendments.                                                                    
She  acknowledged  that she  had  been  born and  raised  in                                                                    
Southeast  and cared  deeply about  the  Alaskan waters  and                                                                    
marine resources.  She emphasized that amendments  would not                                                                    
change  the overall  compliance  the  cruise industry  would                                                                    
have to abide by. She stated  that DEC was doing a fantastic                                                                    
job   at  monitoring   the  cruise   ships  for   regulation                                                                    
compliance.  She   believed  the  amendments   would  reduce                                                                    
administrative burden  on the department. She  had faith the                                                                    
department would continue to do an excellent job.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
A  roll  call  vote  was   taken  on  the  motion  to  adopt                                                                    
Amendments H DEC 1, 3, 5, and 9.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
IN  FAVOR:  Sullivan-Leonard, Tilton,  Carpenter,  Johnston,                                                                    
Knopp, LeBon, Merrick, Wilson                                                                                                   
OPPOSED: Ortiz, Josephson, Foster                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
The MOTION  PASSED (8/3). There being  NO further OBJECTION,                                                                    
Amendments H DEC 1, 3, 5, and 9 were ADOPTED.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
10:55:20 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Merrick MOVED  to  ADOPT Amendment  H DEC  2                                                                    
(copy on file):                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     Administration                                                                                                             
     Administrative Services                                                                                                    
     H DEC 2 - Economist III Position Reduction                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     Delete  Economist  III:   PCN  18-7857  and  associated                                                                    
     funding.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
     1003 GF/Match (UGF) -124.3                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Representative Merrick explained  the amendment would reduce                                                                    
an  economist   III  position   within  the   Department  of                                                                    
Environmental  Conservation.  She  provided details  with  a                                                                    
statement:                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     This position  was created by  a bill in 2014,  HB 140.                                                                    
     The  legislature   defunded  that  position   in  2017;                                                                    
     therefore,  it's an  unfunded  mandate. The  department                                                                    
     was  required  to  maintain the  position  and  perform                                                                    
     economic analysis  as required  by law.  The department                                                                    
     proposes to cease economic  analysis of new regulation,                                                                    
     delete  the position,  and  suspend  any contracts  for                                                                    
     economic analysis.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilson OBJECTED for discussion.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Representative Knopp  recognized that the position  had been                                                                    
defunded.  He  referenced  the  $124,000  decrement  in  the                                                                    
personal services  line. He  wondered if  there had  been no                                                                    
funds  expended,  where  the funding  decrement  was  coming                                                                    
from.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
10:57:20 AM                                                                                                                   
AT EASE                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
10:59:04 AM                                                                                                                   
RECONVENED                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Merrick replied  that the  personal services                                                                    
detail   referenced   by   Representative  Knopp   was   the                                                                    
governor's budget  - it  had been  deleted from  the section                                                                    
and showed as zeros. The additional $124,000 came from UGF.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Ortiz  reported that the budget  subcommittee had                                                                    
looked  at  the  proposal  to eliminate  the  economist  III                                                                    
position   and  unanimously   rejected   the  proposal.   He                                                                    
explained that  the economist position was  in place because                                                                    
statute  currently required  public  notice  to include  the                                                                    
economic analysis  of new regulations. The  department would                                                                    
still  have to  perform the  functions if  the position  was                                                                    
eliminated.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Josephson recalled  that the  bill [HB  140]                                                                    
may  have  been  sponsored  by  former  Representative  Lora                                                                    
Reinbold.  He  pointed   out  that  the  bill   had  been  a                                                                    
conservative  measure  designed  force  the  departments  to                                                                    
explain why they  were doing regulations. He  stated that in                                                                    
a sense  it had  been an  anti-regulatory measure.  He noted                                                                    
that the amendment would repeal  a position designed to have                                                                    
a conservative bent.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair   Wilson   asked   if   the   position   was   new.                                                                    
Additionally, she  wondered if there was  only one economist                                                                    
in the department. She thought  there was more than one. She                                                                    
wondered  how  many  economists were  available  to  do  the                                                                    
department's work.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
11:01:28 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Merrick replied  she did  not know  how many                                                                    
positions there were. She  reported the department supported                                                                    
the amendment  and it had  already absorbed the loss  of the                                                                    
economist III position. The  department was already handling                                                                    
the work without the position.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Ortiz  reported that  the economist  III position                                                                    
had  resulted from  past legislation  (HB 140)  sponsored by                                                                    
former  Representative  Lora Reinbold  in  2014.  He read  a                                                                    
description of the purpose of the legislation:                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     To  provide better  information about  regulations that                                                                    
     may    significantly   affect    private   individuals,                                                                    
     businesses,   and  other   state   agencies  in   local                                                                    
     governments.  House Bill  140  required the  regulation                                                                    
     notices include information about estimated costs                                                                          
     beyond those to the agency.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair  Ortiz  explained  that  the  bill  had  been  in                                                                    
support  of private  businesses  and  individuals and  their                                                                    
relationship with DEC.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Sullivan-Leonard  supported  the  amendment.                                                                    
She  reasoned an  economist had  many  different roles.  She                                                                    
thought that if an economist  was looking into how DEC could                                                                    
better  serve  the  private  sector,  there  were  different                                                                    
avenues they could  take in other divisions  and through the                                                                    
Division   of   Legislative    Audit.   She   believed   the                                                                    
administration felt DEC did not need the position.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Ortiz noted the position was currently filled.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Representative Tilton  reasoned that  there was no  need for                                                                    
the position if the department  was no longer doing the job.                                                                    
She noted that the department  had already absorbed the work                                                                    
and was able to operate without the position.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Representative Merrick  provided wrap  up on  the amendment.                                                                    
She reiterated  that DEC had absorbed  the position already.                                                                    
Additionally,  the department  was discontinuing  conducting                                                                    
analysis of new regulation  and was suspending any contracts                                                                    
for economic analysis.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Ortiz MAINTAINED the OBJECTION.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
A roll call vote was taken on the motion.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
IN  FAVOR:  Sullivan-Leonard, Tilton,  Carpenter,  Johnston,                                                                    
Knopp, LeBon, Merrick, Wilson                                                                                                   
OPPOSED: Ortiz, Josephson, Foster                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
The MOTION  PASSED (8/3). There being  NO further OBJECTION,                                                                    
Amendment H DEC 2 was ADOPTED.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
11:05:50 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Merrick MOVED  to  ADOPT Amendment  H DEC  4                                                                    
(copy on file):                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     Environmental Health                                                                                                       
     H DEC 4 - Delete Dairy Program                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     Delete Dairy Program                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     1004 Gen Fund (UGF) -179.6                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Ortiz OBJECTED.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Merrick explained  that the  amendment would                                                                    
eliminate the  dairy inspection  program and  one associated                                                                    
position. She read from a statement:                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     This  position currently  acts as  the statewide  dairy                                                                    
     program coordinating  expert. They are  responsible for                                                                    
     permitting,  inspecting  farms  and  manufacturing  and                                                                    
     processing facilities. Any  non-dairy related work will                                                                    
     be  shifted to  other  staff. The  elimination of  this                                                                    
     position will  not increase the  risk to  public health                                                                    
     as  unregulated  milk  won't  enter  the  market.  This                                                                    
     amendment  still allows  dairies  to  operate and  sell                                                                    
     their products  to Alaskans  wishing to  purchase local                                                                    
     milk through  a cow-share program. The  number of state                                                                    
     dairies has declined  over time from 65  to 1 operating                                                                    
     bovine  farm today.  With only  one  farm operating  in                                                                    
     Alaska,  it  seems  unreasonable to  continue  spending                                                                    
     $180,000  of   state  funds   to  subsidize   this  one                                                                    
     business. There  are no other businesses  that get that                                                                    
     kind of treatment.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
11:07:08 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair  Ortiz opposed  the  amendment. The  subcommittee                                                                    
had  unanimously  rejected  cutting the  dairy  program.  He                                                                    
reported  that the  issue  did not  directly  relate to  his                                                                    
district;  however,   in  the  name  of   opportunities  for                                                                    
economic development  it had been  brought to  his attention                                                                    
there were  at least two  or three businesses in  the Mat-Su                                                                    
Valley area  looking to enter  into the dairy  industry. The                                                                    
elimination  of the  program would  be  detrimental to  that                                                                    
ability. He  opposed the amendment  in the name  of economic                                                                    
development and  support for small  business in  the private                                                                    
sector.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair  Johnston  referred to  Representative  Merrick's                                                                    
statement that some of the  position duties could be assumed                                                                    
by others in the division.  She wondered if that meant dairy                                                                    
farms could  continue because  they could  become part  of a                                                                    
coop. She  stated her  understanding there  could not  be an                                                                    
exchange of raw milk. She wondered  if there was any way for                                                                    
the dairy industry to grow  and flourish if the position was                                                                    
eliminated.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair  Johnston  recalled  when there  had  been  farms                                                                    
around the state.  She remarked that the  dairy industry was                                                                    
very labor intensive requiring attention  24/7. The only way                                                                    
to  really make  a dairy  farm operate  successfully was  to                                                                    
have  a large  farm  and sell  commercially. She  understood                                                                    
there  were two  or three  dairies that  were about  to come                                                                    
online. She thought  perhaps one of the  dairies was located                                                                    
in Kodiak. She did not  believe the dairy program made sense                                                                    
for  one dairy,  but she  believed  it made  sense to  start                                                                    
supporting the  industry. She spoke  to the importance  of a                                                                    
local source of  food. Unless the dairies  could continue to                                                                    
open and grow without the  position, she did not support the                                                                    
amendment.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
11:10:36 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Knopp  was   glad  Vice-Chair  Johnston  had                                                                    
mentioned  the   dairies  coming  online.  He   shared  that                                                                    
representatives  from  the   agricultural  farm  bureau  had                                                                    
visited his  office recently  and had  reported there  was a                                                                    
dairy in  Kodiak getting ready  to come online.  He believed                                                                    
another  was located  in Mat-Su.  He  noted that  Vice-Chair                                                                    
Johnston  had  highlighted  that   raw  milk  could  not  be                                                                    
exchanged.  He believed  the  position  was responsible  for                                                                    
more  than  dairy  services.  He  remarked  that  the  state                                                                    
government touted  being open for  business. He  referred to                                                                    
state  and federal  mandates and  that the  program was  the                                                                    
only way to  certify the milk. He did not  believe the state                                                                    
should  go down  the  path of  eliminating  the program  and                                                                    
closing all doors. He opposed the amendment.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Carpenter  stated   the  decision  was  very                                                                    
difficult for  him. He  highlighted that  the state  sent $2                                                                    
billion  of  its money  out  of  state annually  because  it                                                                    
imported up  to 98 percent  of its food. He  addressed spoke                                                                    
to the  goal of weathering the  economic fluctuations within                                                                    
the oil industry and noted  that increasing reliance on food                                                                    
grown in Alaska would either  stimulate the economy or leave                                                                    
more  money in  residents' pockets  as a  result of  growing                                                                    
their  own food.  He stressed  that Alaska  used to  grow 50                                                                    
percent of  its own food  and had dairies producing  milk in                                                                    
the state,  which kept the  wealth in the state.  He pointed                                                                    
to a  problem with  government regulations that  required an                                                                    
inspector to stamp milk before it could be sold.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Carpenter shared  that his  family had  been                                                                    
purchasing  milk  from  a cow-share  program  and  they  had                                                                    
probably been  healthier for it.  He noted there was  also a                                                                    
produce inspector  required in the agriculture  industry for                                                                    
produce leaving state to be  sold. He believed the inspector                                                                    
could  also inspect  milk  prior to  its  sale. He  believed                                                                    
there was room  for improvement in the area.  He pointed out                                                                    
that adding  regulations added cost.  He did not  believe it                                                                    
was  fiscally   responsible  to  subsidize   one  particular                                                                    
business,  but  he  recognized  that "we  have  done  it  to                                                                    
ourselves."                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
11:14:12 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair  Ortiz added  that the  House member  from Sutton                                                                    
was not in support of the amendment.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Sullivan-Leonard  remarked  that  the  dairy                                                                    
industry  had been  an  emotional topic  for  many over  the                                                                    
years.  She  shared that  she  had  grown up  drinking  only                                                                    
Matanuska Maid milk.  She expounded that an  extra dairy had                                                                    
been necessary in her home  district. She reported the dairy                                                                    
was owned by an incredible  family who had worked tirelessly                                                                    
to continue  operating. The difficult question  was how much                                                                    
the state would  subsidize one or two dairies.  She asked if                                                                    
it was  fair to other industries  that would love to  have a                                                                    
subsidy  to keep  their industry  going. She  referenced the                                                                    
amendment sponsor's mentioning of  a coop that could provide                                                                    
oversight for  what the position would  do (possibly through                                                                    
the USDA or a private group).  She found it necessary to put                                                                    
the emotional aspect aside and  determine how much the state                                                                    
was subsidizing,  if it was  affordable, and whether  a coop                                                                    
could take it on more effectively.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilson stated there  had been slaughterhouses, fish                                                                    
processing  plants, and  other industry,  much of  which had                                                                    
probably  closed due  to  regulation  that made  businesses'                                                                    
bottom line  ineffective. She noted the  only remaining fish                                                                    
processing  plant  in  the  Interior   was  located  in  her                                                                    
district  and  it was  close  to  shutting down  because  of                                                                    
regulation.  She   wondered  whether  the   legislature  was                                                                    
willing to give money to  other industries if it was willing                                                                    
to  give   money  to  another  [the   dairy  industry].  She                                                                    
elaborated  that if  the business  closed, locals  would not                                                                    
have the  ability to  get their  fish smoked  or a  place to                                                                    
have  their  game  processed.  She   reasoned  that  if  the                                                                    
business closed  people would smoke  their fish  and process                                                                    
game  on their  own, but  it would  still be  a loss  to the                                                                    
community.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilson  considered whether the state  would look at                                                                    
starting  a program  for other  food  product industries  to                                                                    
help when  they were negatively impacted  by regulation. She                                                                    
remarked  on the  local food  industry constantly  competing                                                                    
against  food   that  was  shipped   into  the   state  from                                                                    
elsewhere.   She  elaborated   that  unfortunately   it  was                                                                    
possible to  ship food  from the  Lower 48  at a  much lower                                                                    
price,  which put  local farmers  and food  processors at  a                                                                    
disadvantage. She did  not want to see the  dairy close, but                                                                    
she could not go to her  fish processing plant and tell them                                                                    
that they did  not rise to the same level  as the dairy. She                                                                    
thought the state needed to  address its overzealousness and                                                                    
consider whether all of its  regulations were necessary. She                                                                    
pointed out that  the state did not have  dairies any longer                                                                    
because their bottom line had  not penciled out. She did not                                                                    
know  how  long the  subsidy  had  existed. She  thought  it                                                                    
should be concerning  to the legislature that  the state was                                                                    
no longer able to produce as it had in the past.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
11:19:04 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Carpenter  did  not  view  the  money  as  a                                                                    
subsidy. He detailed  it was a regulation  requiring milk to                                                                    
be  inspected by  a  state agency  or  government agency  to                                                                    
certify  it  as healthy  for  commercial  sale. He  remarked                                                                    
there  were other  products requiring  that  state stamp  of                                                                    
approval. He  explained that  the state's  need to  have the                                                                    
regulation, required  paying for  a state worker  to provide                                                                    
the stamp  of approval.  He underscored  it was  possible to                                                                    
have healthy  milk without stamping it;  however, government                                                                    
regulations required the stamp. He  reasoned the crux of the                                                                    
problem was that the business would  not be able to sell its                                                                    
milk because the government agent did not provide a stamp.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair   Foster   acknowledged   Representative   Jonathan                                                                    
Kreiss-Tompkins in the audience.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Knopp  underscored  the  funds  were  not  a                                                                    
subsidy.  He  explained  that  the  inspections  took  place                                                                    
because it was  a public health issue. He  reasoned that the                                                                    
state  did not  want  manufacturers putting  product on  the                                                                    
shelves without  testing. He pointed  out it was  the reason                                                                    
regulations  had started  to begin  with.  He reasoned  that                                                                    
going down that  road meant that the state would  need to do                                                                    
away with food inspectors and  close all of the restaurants.                                                                    
He  provided  weights  and measures  employees  at  gasoline                                                                    
stations  or  in  the  meat  department.  He  stressed  that                                                                    
consumer protection and public  health issues was the reason                                                                    
for  the regulation.  He  reiterated the  funds  were not  a                                                                    
subsidy.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Representative  LeBon  echoed   comments  by  Representative                                                                    
Knopp  and Representative  Carpenter.  He  agreed the  funds                                                                    
were  not  a  subsidy  where   funds  went  directly  to  an                                                                    
industry.  The funding  went to  verifying  a healthy,  safe                                                                    
product was being sold on the market.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilson clarified  that the industry had  to pay for                                                                    
the same  stamps for approval  for the product it  sold. She                                                                    
explained the  difference was those businesses  paid fees to                                                                    
have  DEC  inspect their  products.  She  detailed that  the                                                                    
[dairy]  organization did  not  have to  pay  the same  fees                                                                    
because the  state paid for  the inspector. She  believed it                                                                    
was an  apples-to-apples comparison. She furthered  that the                                                                    
department  was making  sure the  [dairy]  industry had  the                                                                    
same stamp  for the product  it was selling,  whereas, other                                                                    
industries were  paying the  DEC inspection  fee themselves.                                                                    
The  question was  who  would pay  for  the inspection.  She                                                                    
believed it was  an issue of fairness.  She underscored that                                                                    
private businesses were paying in  fees. She wanted to treat                                                                    
fish, milk, and all other producers equally.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
11:23:08 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Foster  acknowledged Representatives  Louise Stutes                                                                    
and Bryce Edgmon in the audience.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Representative Merrick referenced  a statement by Vice-Chair                                                                    
Ortiz and noted that the  representative from Sutton was not                                                                    
on  the committee.  She remarked  that there  was no  public                                                                    
health issue;  the milk  would only  be available  through a                                                                    
coop and not commercially.  She believed the $180,000 should                                                                    
be  built into  the  dairy's business  model. She  suggested                                                                    
that  if it  were economically  feasible to  operate at  the                                                                    
cost  of doing  business,  perhaps the  business should  not                                                                    
have opened.  She reasoned  that 64  dairies would  not have                                                                    
closed if it was economically  viable for dairies to operate                                                                    
in Alaska.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Ortiz MAINTAINED his OBJECTION.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
A roll call vote was taken on the motion.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
IN FAVOR: Tilton, Carpenter, Merrick, LeBon, Sullivan-                                                                          
Leonard, Wilson                                                                                                                 
OPPOSED: Josephson, Johnston, Knopp, Ortiz, Foster                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
The MOTION PASSED (6/5). There being NO further OBJECTION,                                                                      
Amendment H DEC 4 was ADOPTED.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
11:25:20 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Representative Merrick MOVED to ADOPT Amendments H DEC 6                                                                        
and 7 (copy on file):                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     Environmental Health                                                                                                       
     H DEC 6 - Fund Source Change for                                                                                           
   Shellfish Biotoxin and Growing Water Testing Program                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     Fund source  change to allow the  Department to collect                                                                    
     the  fees  from  shellfish growers  and  harvesters  as                                                                    
     required in regulation.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     1005 GF/Prgm (DGF)       91.0                                                                                              
     1166 Vessel Com (Other) -91.0                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     Environmental Health                                                                                                       
     H  DEC 7  - Increase  Fees for  Shellfish Biotoxin  and                                                                    
     Growing Water Testing Program                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
     It  is   the  intent   of  the  Legislature   that  the                                                                    
     Department of Environmental  Conservation increase fees                                                                    
     for the  Shellfish Biotoxin  and Growing  Water Testing                                                                    
    Program as necessary to support program functions.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilson OBJECTED for discussion.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Representative Merrick explained the amendments related to                                                                      
shellfish growers and harvesters with a prepared statement:                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     Shellfish growers and harvesters  are required to pay a                                                                    
     per  sample  fee  to  cover   the  cost  of  laboratory                                                                    
     testing; however, the state has  been paying these fees                                                                    
     on  their  behalf,  meaning that  the  program  is  100                                                                    
     percent  subsidized by  the  state.  This industry  has                                                                    
     grown significantly and should  now be able to shoulder                                                                    
     the  responsibility  of  the   cost  of  this  required                                                                    
     testing. The environmental  health laboratory processes                                                                    
     approximately  650  samples   per  year  for  paralytic                                                                    
     shellfish toxin,  24 samples per year  for domoic acid,                                                                    
     and 450  samples per  year of  water growing  for fecal                                                                    
     coliform  bacteria. The  department estimates  that the                                                                    
     total revenue from fees would be $91,000.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     The first  of these amendments shifts  the $91,000 from                                                                    
     the    Commercial   Passenger    Vessel   Environmental                                                                    
     Compliance  Fund  to  program  receipts  to  allow  the                                                                    
     department to  collect fees from shellfish  growers and                                                                    
     harvesters. The  second amendment adds  intent language                                                                    
     directing the department to raise  fees as necessary to                                                                    
     support this program.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair  Ortiz was  opposed to  the amendments.  He noted                                                                    
that the  discussion had similarities  to the  discussion on                                                                    
the  previous  amendment.  He  explained  that  the  testing                                                                    
occurring  in  the  Anchorage  facility  was  for  shellfish                                                                    
poisoning. The  shellfish harvesters paid for  their product                                                                    
to  be shipped  to the  Anchorage facility  for testing.  He                                                                    
agreed that the state paid  for the actual tests. He thought                                                                    
it was  important to consider  whether there was a  role for                                                                    
government to  play in protecting  the health and  safety of                                                                    
its  residents. Historically  the  answer had  been yes.  He                                                                    
noted  that  the  amendments  veered  from  that  historical                                                                    
stance. He read from a statement:                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     The   Southeast   Alaska    Regional   Dive   Fisheries                                                                    
     Association  (SARDFA), while  it doesn't  pay for  this                                                                    
     particular testing  facility and their  activities, was                                                                    
     the  only   association  in  the   state  to   pay  for                                                                    
     management of  its fisheries by the  Department of Fish                                                                    
     and Game  via a self-assessment on  the ex-vessel value                                                                    
     of the fishery.  Right now, they assess  themselves a 7                                                                    
     percent tax on geoducks in  addition to a 3 percent raw                                                                    
     fish tax  that the state  requests in order to  pay for                                                                    
     the  management duties  provided by  the Department  of                                                                    
     Fish  and Game.  Geoducks  alone  average an  ex-vessel                                                                    
     value of  $4.4 million  annually. The  raw fish  tax is                                                                    
     assessed  on this,  and while  that may  not seem  like                                                                    
     much, that  money is dumped  into the UGF  pot. Because                                                                    
     testing is  required in statute,  SARDFA must  not only                                                                    
     pay divers to  collect samples, but they  also must pay                                                                    
     for  the samples  to be  GoldStreaked to  Anchorage for                                                                    
     testing.  Not  to mention,  the  PSP  levels have  been                                                                    
     higher over the years, so  the frequency of testing has                                                                    
     increased.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     As  of right  now,  SARDFA has  sent approximately  100                                                                    
     samples made up  of 15 to 18 geoducks  since the season                                                                    
     opened  October 1.  SARDFA pays  approximately $160,000                                                                    
     out of the dive fisheries'  pockets to collect and ship                                                                    
     these samples for them to  harvest geoducks. If we were                                                                    
     to  adopt   this  amendment  it  would   be  in  direct                                                                    
     opposition to  all of our  goals here, which is  to try                                                                    
     to support economic  development and increased economic                                                                    
     activity within the State of Alaska.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
11:30:47 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilson noted she did  not know a significant amount                                                                    
about  the   vessel  compliance  fund.  She   asked  whether                                                                    
organizations taxed themselves and  put the funding into the                                                                    
compliance  fund. She  asked if  any  UGF was  used for  the                                                                    
increment. She  noted the  previous amendment  had pertained                                                                    
to UGF. She  wanted to verify the money was  coming from the                                                                    
industry.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair  Ortiz  answered  that the  shellfish  harvesters                                                                    
represented  by SARDFA  paid for  all of  the Department  of                                                                    
Fish and Game expenses for  the management and monitoring of                                                                    
the  fishery.  He explained  it  was  different than  salmon                                                                    
seiners or trollers  that paid a 3 percent  landing tax that                                                                    
went 50 percent to communities  and 50 percent to the state.                                                                    
He referenced  the amendment sponsor's discussion  about the                                                                    
ability of industry  to carry its own weight.  He agreed the                                                                    
actual  testing process  in Anchorage  was paid  for by  the                                                                    
state.  However,  the  particular   industry  paid  for  the                                                                    
management  of  their  fishery through  a  7  percent  self-                                                                    
assessment that went into the  Department of Fish and Game's                                                                    
ability to monitor.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Wilson  asked if  any  UGF  went into  the  vessel                                                                    
compliance fund.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Ortiz replied that he did not know.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair  Johnston asked  about the  size of  the industry                                                                    
and  any growth  that had  occurred  in the  past couple  of                                                                    
years. She considered whether the  industry was showing some                                                                    
strength and  growth versus the previous  industry discussed                                                                    
that had gone  back to almost zero and was  starting to grow                                                                    
again.  She   wondered  if  the  industry   could  withstand                                                                    
additional fees.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
11:34:18 AM                                                                                                                   
AT EASE                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
11:44:20 AM                                                                                                                   
RECONVENED                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair  Ortiz  responded  to a  question  by  Vice-Chair                                                                    
Johnston  about   whether  the   industry  was   growing  or                                                                    
declining.  He   reported  that   the  industry   had  great                                                                    
potential;  currently the  fishing  industry  brought in  $6                                                                    
billion  annually  in economic  activity  in  the state.  He                                                                    
noted  the  fishing industry  was  the  second largest  jobs                                                                    
provider  in the  state. There  was hope  that with  further                                                                    
development in  shellfish and mariculture that  the industry                                                                    
would  continue to  grow. He  cited the  Hump Island  oyster                                                                    
farm in Ketchikan as long  standing, up and coming business.                                                                    
He explained  that the amendment  would directly  impact the                                                                    
oyster farm.  He detailed that  the farm was one  example of                                                                    
businesses  that  sent  their   product  for  inspection  to                                                                    
protect the  health of  the public.  The industry  had great                                                                    
potential and adopting the amendment would hinder it.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Representative Merrick  provided wrap  up on  the amendment.                                                                    
She elucidated  there were no  general funds that  went into                                                                    
the  Commercial  Passenger Vessel  Environmental  Compliance                                                                    
Fund.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
11:46:46 AM                                                                                                                   
AT EASE                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
11:46:57 AM                                                                                                                   
RECONVENED                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Merrick   emphasized  the  desire   to  have                                                                    
shellfish  testing  to  ensure   its  safety;  however,  she                                                                    
believed businesses  should pay for the  testing. She stated                                                                    
it  was another  example of  considering whether  a business                                                                    
was  economically viable.  She  remarked  that the  industry                                                                    
paid for  shipping [for testing],  but most  businesses paid                                                                    
all of their  fees. She stated the  regulations were already                                                                    
in place.  She continued  that the businesses  were supposed                                                                    
to be paying  the fees, but the state had  been covering the                                                                    
cost instead. She  concluded that the state  could no longer                                                                    
afford to subsidize businesses; businesses should be                                                                            
economically viable on their own.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Ortiz OBJECTED.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
A roll call vote was taken on the motion.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
IN FAVOR: Carpenter, LeBon, Merrick, Sullivan-Leonard,                                                                          
Tilton, Johnston                                                                                                                
OPPOSED: Ortiz, Josephson, Knopp, Wilson, Foster                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
The MOTION  PASSED (6/5). There being  NO further OBJECTION,                                                                    
Amendments H DEC 6 and 7  were ADOPTED. [Note: The action on                                                                    
Amendments H  DEC 6 and 7  was later rescinded by  a vote of                                                                    
(7/4). See page 140 for details.]                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
11:49:03 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilson MOVED to ADOPT Amendment DEC 8 (copy on                                                                         
file):                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     Air Quality                                                                                                                
     H DEC 8 - Delete FNSB Air Quality Intent Language                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     Wordage:                                                                                                                   
     Delete "It is the intent  of the legislature that, with                                                                    
     regards to  the Air Quality situation  in the Fairbanks                                                                    
     North  Star Borough,  the  Department of  Environmental                                                                    
     Conservation   shall:  1.   Submit   a  Serious   State                                                                    
     Implementation Plan  (SIP) as quickly as  possible that                                                                    
     includes sufficiently stringent  Best Available Control                                                                    
     Technologies   (BACT)   and  Best   Available   Control                                                                    
     Measures   (BACM)   to   be  legally   defensible   and                                                                    
     approvable  by  the   Environmental  Protection  Agency                                                                    
     (EPA). 2. Maintain adequate DEC  staff in the Fairbanks                                                                    
     North  Star  Borough  and   streamline  the  Notice  of                                                                    
     Violation  (NOV)  process  to  ensure  compliance  with                                                                    
     current   regulations    in   place    and   additional                                                                    
     regulations implemented  under the  Serious SIP  3. DEC                                                                    
     shall  coordinate with  local  governments impacted  by                                                                    
     PM2.5 non-attainment  to best utilize  municipal powers                                                                    
     for  mitigation,  monitoring  and  enforcement  to  the                                                                    
    maximum extent possible under state and local law."                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     Explanation:                                                                                                               
     This   wordage  can   negatively  impact   DEC  as   it                                                                    
     negotiates with the  EPA on what should  and should not                                                                    
     be in  the SIP. If  this process is not  done correctly                                                                    
     energy costs could  rise at such a level  that it would                                                                    
     actually cause  more people to  turn to  utilizing wood                                                                    
     heat.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Representative Josephson OBJECTED for discussion.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilson reviewed the amendment.  She shared that the                                                                    
maker  of the  intent  language  was another  representative                                                                    
from  the Fairbanks  North Star  Borough. She  reported that                                                                    
the borough [air quality] had  been designated as serious by                                                                    
the Environmental Protection Agency  (EPA) due to inversions                                                                    
and  lack of  wind.  She  was concerned  that  DEC could  be                                                                    
negatively impacted  as it negotiated  with the EPA  on what                                                                    
should   and   should  not   be   included   in  the   state                                                                    
implementation  plan (SIP).  She  communicated  that if  the                                                                    
process was not  done correctly, energy costs  could rise to                                                                    
a level that  would cause more people to  utilize wood heat.                                                                    
Part  of  the  SIP  included  looking  at  power  plans  and                                                                    
implementing more pollution control  devices, albeit she did                                                                    
not believe that was part of the issue.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Wilson  was  impressed  by  the  DEC  commissioner                                                                    
designee  who was  addressing the  sensitive  issue of  wood                                                                    
stoves -  considering how  to maintain a  way of  live while                                                                    
dealing  with  the EPA's  stringent  rules.  She noted  that                                                                    
there had  been improvement  in recent years.  She continued                                                                    
that  the commissioner  was taking  the approach  to involve                                                                    
the  community in  the  process and  to  communicate how  to                                                                    
comment to  show how  the EPA what  the community  could and                                                                    
could  not  do  economically.  She  cautioned  that  if  the                                                                    
process was not  done correctly, it would  have the opposite                                                                    
effect (wood burning  would not be reduced)  if energy costs                                                                    
increased  to  due  EPA  regulations.  She  appreciated  the                                                                    
amendment  language,  but  she  did  not  want  to  tie  the                                                                    
commissioner's  hands  as  he   was  navigating  a  delicate                                                                    
situation  between  meeting  the  EPA  regulations  and  not                                                                    
fining residents trying to heat  their homes. She elaborated                                                                    
that in many  cases it came down to food,  medicine, or heat                                                                    
as things got tighter and tighter for residents.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
11:51:54 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Representative   Tilton  shared   that  her   community  was                                                                    
starting to have  air quality issues as  well. She supported                                                                    
the deletion of  the language as proposed  by the amendment.                                                                    
She believed  setting a  precedent could  be harmful  to her                                                                    
district.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Foster  referenced the sponsor's mention  of having                                                                    
spoken with the maker of  the intent language that was added                                                                    
in subcommittee. He asked if  the individual was amenable to                                                                    
the amendment.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilson replied that she  had asked the subcommittee                                                                    
chair who shared the Senate district  she was a part of. She                                                                    
detailed that  the representative understood why  she wanted                                                                    
the language  removed and  was amenable  to the  change. She                                                                    
understood   why  the   representative   had  included   the                                                                    
language.  She  explained  that  the  representative's  area                                                                    
(unlike hers)  was located  in the  most affected  area. She                                                                    
quoted  from  the  intent   language:  "enforcement  to  the                                                                    
maximum  extent possible,  under state  and local  law." She                                                                    
highlighted that  the language could  result in fines  up to                                                                    
$500,000. Currently,  the agency and borough  were trying to                                                                    
work with residents to make  things better instead of merely                                                                    
fining individuals automatically.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Sullivan-Leonard asked  for  clarity on  the                                                                    
amendment  language. She  wondered  if  the entire  language                                                                    
would be removed.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilson stated there should  be quotes at the end of                                                                    
the  statement.  She  confirmed  that  the  amendment  would                                                                    
remove the entirety of the intent language.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
11:54:16 AM                                                                                                                   
AT EASE                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
11:56:15 AM                                                                                                                   
RECONVENED                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Josephson discussed  that the  maker of  the                                                                    
amendment  in  the subcommittee  had  wanted  to tackle  the                                                                    
existing   nonattainment   problem.   He   understood   that                                                                    
Fairbanks  had been  unable  to build  out  its natural  gas                                                                    
system (the  issue was  being worked on)  and that  the area                                                                    
was spread  out. He clarified  that Fairbanks was  not being                                                                    
picked on  or blamed for  its circumstance. He asked  if the                                                                    
[amendment's] goal was to put  Fairbanks in a position where                                                                    
perhaps its air  quality did not have to improve  as much as                                                                    
it might.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilson  clarified that the  community would  not be                                                                    
in the  situation if it  had affordable gas  like Anchorage.                                                                    
She  added that  the Fairbanks  area had  a lot  of [natural                                                                    
gas] pipe  with nothing in  it. She explained that  once the                                                                    
SIP was  put out, it would  require substantial coordination                                                                    
to  make sure  there  was ample  interaction with  residents                                                                    
regarding  potential   impacts  and   bringing  stakeholders                                                                    
together  to discuss  impacts on  utilities. She  questioned                                                                    
the  meaning  of  the following  sentence  included  in  the                                                                    
intent  language:  "Submit  a Serious  State  Implementation                                                                    
Plan   (SIP)   as   quickly  as   possible   that   includes                                                                    
sufficiently     stringent     Best    Available     Control                                                                    
Technologies."  She   was  concerned  it  would   push  more                                                                    
stringent regulations  on the district.  She noted  that the                                                                    
borough  was  large, but  North  Pole  was experiencing  the                                                                    
issues  due to  its  geographic location  in  a valley.  She                                                                    
elaborated that  the population was larger  than its airshed                                                                    
could handle. She  questioned how to handle  the problem and                                                                    
wondered   if  the   community   should  use   electrostatic                                                                    
precipitators that  removed 85  percent of  the PM  2.5. She                                                                    
stressed there were numerous factors involved.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair   Wilson  believed   the   intent  language   would                                                                    
micromanage  the department  - she  believed the  department                                                                    
was doing  all it  could. She understood  the representative                                                                    
who had  included the intent  language was not  intending to                                                                    
do harm.  She characterized her  portion of the  district as                                                                    
the "triangle of death" in regard to air quality issues.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
11:59:34 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair   Johnston   remarked    on   Fairbanks'   unique                                                                    
environment   and  the   substantial  influx   of  [federal]                                                                    
Department  of Defense  (DOD) funding.  She elaborated  that                                                                    
DOD's  investment depended  a lot  on the  air quality.  She                                                                    
believed Fairbanks would work hard  to avoid the loss of DOD                                                                    
influx.  She thought  the amendment  would allow  Fairbanks,                                                                    
the state,  and the federal government  to develop alignment                                                                    
in order for  DOD to expand in Fairbanks to  improve the air                                                                    
quality.  She  furthered  that   the  work  would  mean  the                                                                    
economic impact would not be  driven to a crisis point where                                                                    
everything  fell apart.  She trusted  the community  for the                                                                    
greater good.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
12:00:59 PM                                                                                                                   
AT EASE                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
12:01:55 PM                                                                                                                   
RECONVENED                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Representative  LeBon stated  that his  district was  in the                                                                    
center  of Fairbanks  and did  not have  quite as  many wood                                                                    
burners as  other areas  in surrounding  districts; however,                                                                    
the issue  was the top  priority in the  community. Everyone                                                                    
in  Fairbanks was  concerned with  the need  to improve  the                                                                    
community's air  quality. He  emphasized that  residents all                                                                    
wanted to  breathe clean  air. He  elaborated that  DEC, the                                                                    
Fairbanks North  Star Borough, the  City of North  Pole, and                                                                    
the  EPA were  all together  at  the table  and were  making                                                                    
material progress. He supported the amendment.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
12:02:48 PM                                                                                                                   
AT EASE                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
12:02:57 PM                                                                                                                   
RECONVENED                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Wilson communicated  she  had erroneously  thought                                                                    
the  maker  of  the  intent language  [inserted  during  the                                                                    
subcommittee   process]   supported   her   amendment;   she                                                                    
clarified the  maker of  the intent  language wanted  to see                                                                    
the language maintained.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Wilson  provided wrap  up  on  the amendment.  She                                                                    
shared that  she had  been working with  the issue  for nine                                                                    
years  and  was  extremely  proud   of  the  community.  She                                                                    
disputed claims that her district  was the dirtiest place on                                                                    
Earth. She  spoke to the successes  of community cooperation                                                                    
and  education on  the  subject. She  recalled  in the  past                                                                    
residents  chopping wood  in September/October  to burn  the                                                                    
following month.  She clarified  that it  could take  a year                                                                    
for wood  to dry out  for burning.  Since work on  the issue                                                                    
had begun,  woodsheds had sprung up  throughout the district                                                                    
to store wood for the following year.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Wilson believed  the  intent  language could  mean                                                                    
pushing DEC  in a  way that would  prevent it  from bringing                                                                    
the  community  along.  She  was  concerned  that  when  the                                                                    
borough  had started  fining residents  $500  for trying  to                                                                    
heat  their homes,  people  had begun  losing  faith in  the                                                                    
community.  She  emphasized  the  worst  scenario  would  be                                                                    
residents losing faith in the  situation and starting to cut                                                                    
wood  just  beforehand  (and burning  things  they  probably                                                                    
should not burn) as they had  in the past. The community had                                                                    
been  blessed  that oil  prices  had  been lower  than  ever                                                                    
before.  She continued  that  the  community may  eventually                                                                    
have natural gas, which was  part of the solution. The other                                                                    
part of  the solution was  wind, but  she did not  want wind                                                                    
when temperatures were negative 44 degrees [Fahrenheit].                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilson  communicated her support for  her community                                                                    
and  the desire  for  a community  solution.  She wanted  to                                                                    
ensure DEC moved forward with  a realistic, attainable plan.                                                                    
She  did not  support  a  plan that  did  not  work or  that                                                                    
involved pollution  control devices  by GVEA  [Golden Valley                                                                    
Electric  Association]   or  Aurora  [Energy,   LLC],  which                                                                    
increased the  cost of electricity. Additionally,  food cost                                                                    
would increase  because private industry would  have to pass                                                                    
electricity costs off  to someone. She stressed  that if the                                                                    
solution  was not  done right,  it would  mean people  would                                                                    
burn more  wood and put  more stoves in. She  explained that                                                                    
if  oil  prices  increased  to past  prices  (above  $3  per                                                                    
gallon) the issue  came down to whether a  family could feed                                                                    
their children,  purchase needed medication, and  heat their                                                                    
home.  She  underscored that  it  was  very beneficial  when                                                                    
electricity went  off that residents could  continue to keep                                                                    
their homes warm.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilson  was frustrated that  the EPA put  stoves on                                                                    
the market  that hurt the community  from meeting standards.                                                                    
She  explained that  the  EPA did  not  understand that  the                                                                    
region only had Birch and  Spruce available for burning. She                                                                    
emphasized  the community  was underneath  a cloud  that was                                                                    
not the  fault of Fairbanks  residents. She did not  want to                                                                    
send  a  message  that  the  legislature  could  micromanage                                                                    
better than the organizations  in the community working with                                                                    
DEC.  She  appreciated  her counterpart's  action,  but  she                                                                    
thought  it  implied  that  all  of the  work  done  by  her                                                                    
constituents  would never  be enough.  She could  not afford                                                                    
the   message  to   go  forward   because  she   needed  the                                                                    
cooperation  of  residents  to move  ahead.  She  asked  the                                                                    
committee to have faith in the department.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
12:08:27 PM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Ortiz WITHDREW his OBJECTION.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Representative Josephson  recognized he knew less  about the                                                                    
issue  than   Fairbanks  residents.  He  pointed   out  that                                                                    
sometimes  things  were  just  exceptionally  difficult.  He                                                                    
understood  they were  difficult at  present. He  thought is                                                                    
colleague  from Gold  Stream Valley  had written  the intent                                                                    
language for  a reason,  but he  could see  the will  of the                                                                    
committee and would not object.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
There  being NO  further OBJECTION,  Amendment H  DEC 8  was                                                                    
ADOPTED.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Foster relayed the committee  would take a one-hour                                                                    
lunch and begin  with the Department of Fish  and Game (DFG)                                                                    
amendments upon resuming.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
12:09:53 PM                                                                                                                   
RECESSED                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
1:35:35 PM                                                                                                                    
RECONVENED                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Foster  explained that  the committee  would return                                                                    
to items that had been set aside the previous day.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Wilson  WITHDREW  Amendment LS  1,  31-GH1905\R.11                                                                    
(Bruce 3/30/19)  (copy on file).  She explained it  had come                                                                    
to  her  attention  that  although  students  were  able  to                                                                    
utilize  the  pool,  there were  still  safety  issues  that                                                                    
needed to  be addressed before  the pool could be  opened to                                                                    
the  public.  She elaborated  that  without  opening to  the                                                                    
public, the pool  would not be able to get  the General Fund                                                                    
program  [receipts] that  had been  previously discussed  by                                                                    
the committee.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
1:36:49 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilson asked to hear Amendment H DOC 7.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Foster directed  members to  the appropriate  page                                                                    
number. He noted that the  previous day questions had arisen                                                                    
related to the amendment and they had held it.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Representative Josephson  MOVED to  ADOPT Amendment H  DOC 7                                                                    
(copy on file):                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     DEPARTMENT:    Corrections                                                                                                 
     APPROPRIATION: Population Management                                                                                       
     ALLOCATION:    Institution Director's Office                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     ADD:           $13,551.5 UGF (1004), Services                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
     EXPLANATION:  Partially  restore Population  Management                                                                    
     to allow  department to  absorb cuts  on a  glide path.                                                                    
     This amount  is 50% of  the indirect costs  included in                                                                    
     the   House   Finance   Subcommittee's   reduction   to                                                                    
     Population Management.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilson OBJECTED for discussion.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Representative Josephson  reviewed the amendment.  He shared                                                                    
that he had  not sat on the Department  of Corrections (DOC)                                                                    
subcommittee  and was  new to  the DOC  budget. He  detailed                                                                    
that  the governor  had proposed  a $30  million unallocated                                                                    
cut  to  DOC   and  was  planning  to   close  the  Wildwood                                                                    
Correctional Center  located in the Kenai/Soldotna  area. He                                                                    
had been told  that Wildwood functioned well and  was one of                                                                    
the better prisons. The governor's  proposal would also move                                                                    
500  inmates out  of  state,  which was  a  policy that  had                                                                    
changed in  the past under  the theory that  Alaskans should                                                                    
take  care of  their  own  business and  it  was better  for                                                                    
prisoners  to  be closer  to  family  and their  own  social                                                                    
structure.  The subcommittee  had  elected to  substantially                                                                    
cut the  population management  appropriation and  put funds                                                                    
into new  appropriations for electronic monitoring  (EM) and                                                                    
community  residential centers  (CRC).  He did  not want  to                                                                    
rush  people out  of confinement  into CRCs  and onto  EM if                                                                    
they  were not  ready. He  thought  it was  necessary to  be                                                                    
careful  about EM  because individuals  received day-for-day                                                                    
credit.  He pointed  to  the Schneider  case  as an  example                                                                    
where   the  EM   credit  had   been   given  pretrial   and                                                                    
presentencing.  He  detailed  that  Mr.  Schneider  received                                                                    
credit for time  served presentencing under a  bill in 2015,                                                                    
which he  opposed (he  noted he  had been  one of  the three                                                                    
opponents  of  the bill).  He  thought  the judge  had  been                                                                    
unfairly  treated in  the [Schneider]  case  because he  had                                                                    
limited options.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Josephson had  concerns about  CRCs and  EM,                                                                    
unless DOC, in  its wisdom, using Title  22 (regulations) or                                                                    
Title 33  (statutes) makes wise  decisions. He  believed the                                                                    
regulations   and   statutes  constrained   the   department                                                                    
relatively wisely. He agreed with  the subcommittee that the                                                                    
proposal  by  the  governor  to   close  Wildwood  and  send                                                                    
prisoners out of state, was  not good policy. He noted there                                                                    
was  some belief  that if  part  of the  cuts to  population                                                                    
management  were   restored  that  "those  things   may  not                                                                    
happen."  He had  concerns  there was  a  lack of  certainty                                                                    
about  the impact.  He could  not  guarantee that  prisoners                                                                    
would  not be  transferred  and that  prisons  would not  be                                                                    
shuttered.  The  calculation  of   $13.5  million  had  been                                                                    
reached  by looking  at  the average  daily  rate and  fixed                                                                    
costs. He elaborated that the  calculation used a multiplier                                                                    
and  divided  by  2  to  reach a  midrange  value  of  $13.5                                                                    
million.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
1:43:01 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilson clarified that the  Schneider case was under                                                                    
pretrial. She  explained it was  not a  part of EM  that was                                                                    
being  spoken to;  the  rules were  different  for those  on                                                                    
probation and parole.  She did not want  to confuse pretrial                                                                    
with those on probation and  parole after they had completed                                                                    
their sentence.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Representative Knopp  MOVED to ADOPT Conceptual  Amendment 1                                                                    
to Amendment H DOC 7.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilson OBJECTED for discussion.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Knopp explained  the amendment  would remove                                                                    
out  of  state  contractual allocations  from  the  property                                                                    
management component  and would create  a new line  item for                                                                    
appropriation.  He detailed  that  the same  money would  be                                                                    
transferred  to the  appropriation. The  amendment addressed                                                                    
Representative  Josephson's  concerns  about how  the  state                                                                    
managed  its   populations.  He   elaborated  that   if  the                                                                    
administration  decided to  move prisoners  out of  state it                                                                    
would  be  required  to  come  to  the  legislature  for  an                                                                    
appropriation.  He   reported  it  would   address  Co-Chair                                                                    
Wilson's concerns  about contracts  the legislature  had not                                                                    
seen but was asked to  ratify. The administration would have                                                                    
to come to the legislature to  explain the details of an RFQ                                                                    
[request for quotation] or RFP  [request for proposal] for a                                                                    
supplemental appropriation if necessary.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Knopp  explained  that the  amendment  would                                                                    
help   manage  the   [prison]   population   and  gave   the                                                                    
legislature input  on whether  it was  wise to  move inmates                                                                    
out of  state or not.  The goal of the  conceptual amendment                                                                    
was  to  remove  the   contractual  language,  services  and                                                                    
allocation  to  population  management,  and  create  a  new                                                                    
appropriation  $300,000. The  amendment  would transfer  the                                                                    
money  already allocated  to the  line  item. The  amendment                                                                    
aligned with and  enforced intent language on page  7 of the                                                                    
budget  document  specifying  the legislature's  intent  for                                                                    
inmates to be housed in-state.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
1:45:32 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Carpenter asked  for clarification  on where                                                                    
money was coming from.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Representative Knopp replied the  money was already in DOC's                                                                    
budget  under  the  population  management  allocation.  The                                                                    
conceptual  amendment would  leave the  money in  the budget                                                                    
but moved  it to an  appropriation. He explained  the change                                                                    
meant  the  department  would  have to  use  the  money  for                                                                    
contractual  services.  The  amendment  would  not  add  any                                                                    
additional money  and would not  take anything  from general                                                                    
funds.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilson WITHDREW her OBJECTION.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
There being NO further  OBJECTION, Conceptual Amendment 1 to                                                                    
Amendment H DOC 7 was ADOPTED.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
1:47:01 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Wilson thanked  Representative  Josephson for  his                                                                    
work on  the amendment.  She remarked  on the  difficulty of                                                                    
the work without having all  of the needed numbers; however,                                                                    
she believed the  compromise made would send  a good message                                                                    
to the administration that it  was not only the subcommittee                                                                    
that  was  against  sending  Alaskans   out  of  state.  She                                                                    
believed  the   lesson  had  been  learned   the  last  time                                                                    
[prisoners had been sent out  of state]. She appreciated the                                                                    
conceptual  amendment offered  by Representative  Knopp. She                                                                    
reiterated  her  thanks   to  Representative  Josephson  and                                                                    
stressed it was  a compromise. She did not want  to rush the                                                                    
program - she  wanted to make sure that if  inmates could go                                                                    
to halfway  houses and then onto  EM, that it would  be done                                                                    
with   thoughtfulness  and   by  following   regulation  and                                                                    
statute.  The  goal  was  to ensure  a  step-down  mode  for                                                                    
Alaskans that  would help  Alaskans get  back on  their feet                                                                    
after being  released from jail.  She hoped  that recidivism                                                                    
would not revert  back to 67 percent [as it  had been in the                                                                    
past].  She  did  not  want more  Alaskans  to  be  violated                                                                    
because  the  legislature/state  could  not  get  their  act                                                                    
together.  She  believed  the amendment  provided  a  strong                                                                    
message  to the  department  that the  way  things had  been                                                                    
going was not  working. When prisoners had been  sent out of                                                                    
state in  the past, they had  come back worse off  than when                                                                    
they left. She expressed appreciation for the work.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Representative Carpenter  stated it  was no surprise  to any                                                                    
Alaskan the  state's criminal justice system  was broken. He                                                                    
elaborated  that  the   criminal  justice  process  involved                                                                    
multiple  departments  including  the Department  of  Public                                                                    
Safety, the  Alaska Court System,  the Department  of Health                                                                    
and Social Services, and DOC.  He spoke to the difficulty of                                                                    
addressing the  problem. One  of the  things that  the state                                                                    
needed  to do  was  to keep  people who  needed  to stay  in                                                                    
prison, in prison.  He clarified that the intent  was not to                                                                    
move people  into CRCs or EM  through political shenanigans.                                                                    
He   stated  that   only  the   individuals  who   by  their                                                                    
constitutional right to reformation  were choosing to reform                                                                    
themselves based on a list  of requirements specified by the                                                                    
prison   system.  He   believed   that   only  under   those                                                                    
circumstances did people warrant going  to a CRC or onto EM.                                                                    
He furthered it had been the  intent, but due to politics it                                                                    
had  not happened.  He explained  that  the legislature  was                                                                    
trying to fix the problem.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Representative Carpenter understood  that the amendment tied                                                                    
the  administration's hands  in  some ways,  but the  people                                                                    
were  tired  of having  criminals  only  get "slaps  on  the                                                                    
hand." He believed most of  the pain being felt derived from                                                                    
presentenced people  being released.  The amendment  did not                                                                    
pertain to that  group. He continued that it  would still be                                                                    
a  problem  that  the legislature  needed  to  work  towards                                                                    
solving. The amendment addressed  one component of the issue                                                                    
and he believed the fix was worthwhile.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
1:51:04 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative Sullivan-Leonard  appreciated the compromise.                                                                    
Her  hopes  had  been  that   funding  would  go  back  into                                                                    
population  management.  She  believed  that  SB  91  [crime                                                                    
reform  legislation   passed  in   2016]  had   proven  that                                                                    
criminals needed to be behind  bars. She continued there was                                                                    
a failed  system under  SB 91  with the  CRC and  EM system;                                                                    
even though  a certain amount  of money was going  back into                                                                    
population management,  she hoped  the funds  in CRC  and EM                                                                    
would be a  key piece in helping  former inmates reintegrate                                                                    
into  society  as  rehabilitated, productive  citizens.  She                                                                    
appreciated  the compromise  and  emphasized that  criminals                                                                    
who offended would be put behind bars.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilson WITHDREW her OBJECTION  to Amendment H DOC 7                                                                    
as AMENDED.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Representative Josephson clarified there  had been a comment                                                                    
that the  individuals the amendment  applied to would  be on                                                                    
parole and probation. He did  not believe that was accurate.                                                                    
He explained  that individuals on  parole or  probation were                                                                    
not typically  in a  halfway house. He  supposed being  in a                                                                    
halfway house could  be a condition of  probation or parole.                                                                    
He  stated that  typically the  individuals were  in custody                                                                    
for  credit  for  time  served.  He  wanted  to  ensure  the                                                                    
legislature was making the changes  soberly. He took comfort                                                                    
there would  be some custodial  time before the  movement to                                                                    
CRCs and halfway houses. He  noted that if an individual did                                                                    
not qualify,  they did  not qualify, and  he would  ask that                                                                    
the  department   come  back   to  the  legislature   for  a                                                                    
supplemental.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
1:53:51 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Wilson  clarified  there were  two  programs.  The                                                                    
pretrial  program  (under   its  own  allocation)  involving                                                                    
unsentenced  individuals  was   not  under  discussion.  The                                                                    
amendment applied  to individuals who had  been sentenced to                                                                    
jailtime. She  elaborated that if  an individual  got within                                                                    
two to three  years of release, they would normally  go to a                                                                    
halfway  house  as  part of  the  transition  towards  their                                                                    
release date.  She explained that  the courts  could require                                                                    
an  individual  to  go  on   EM  if  they  were  unsure  the                                                                    
individual needed  continued supervision.  The point  of the                                                                    
amendment  was   to  keep   Alaskans  in-state,   to  punish                                                                    
individuals who committed crimes,  and once individuals were                                                                    
released  there would  be programs  available to  make their                                                                    
reentry successful and reduce the number of victims.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
There  being NO  further OBJECTION,  Amendment H  DOC 7  was                                                                    
ADOPTED as AMENDED.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
1:55:53 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilson  MOVED to  RESCIND the adoption  of H  DOE 5                                                                    
related to Pre-K  grants totaling $2 million  [see 9:33 a.m.                                                                    
for detail].                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative Carpenter OBJECTED.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Wilson  stated  that  during  the  break  she  had                                                                    
learned more information about where  the grants were going.                                                                    
She relayed that the grants  were going to Pre-K programs 4-                                                                    
5-year-olds in areas that were  part of the Moore settlement                                                                    
in  order  for  kids  to  get a  head  start  in  life.  She                                                                    
elaborated  that the  communities receiving  the grants  did                                                                    
not have  the Head  Start program or  other types  of Pre-K.                                                                    
She stated  that the grants under  discussion were different                                                                    
than Pre-K  grants because 4-5-year-olds were  receiving the                                                                    
services in areas with challenging test scores.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Foster  clarified the  motion before  the committee                                                                    
was  to rescind  action taken  on Amendment  H DOE  5, which                                                                    
would remove $2 million from Pre-K grants.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Carpenter noted  there had  been a  thorough                                                                    
discussion on the issue earlier  in the day. He stated there                                                                    
had been agreement to prioritize  things that were necessary                                                                    
and required, given the current  fiscal climate. He believed                                                                    
the item was not necessary or  required. He thought it was a                                                                    
false  statement 4-5-year-olds  would only  get educated  if                                                                    
the  $2 million  was spent.  He opined  it was  necessary to                                                                    
learn not  to look to the  state for the funds  to solve the                                                                    
problem of educating  kids. He stated using  the funds meant                                                                    
taking the PFDs from other kids to pay for it.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
1:59:20 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair  Johnston  shared  she  had  been  on  the  House                                                                    
Education  Committee the  previous year.  She remarked  that                                                                    
the committee had passed legislation  [in 2018] to implement                                                                    
more measured outcomes that had  not been there in the past.                                                                    
As a result,  she felt better about the grants  than she had                                                                    
in the past. She supported the motion.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Representative Sullivan-Leonard  was curious about  what the                                                                    
grants were.  She stated  the committee  had decided  on the                                                                    
issue previously.  She wondered where the  legislature would                                                                    
be at  the end of the  operating budget process if  it could                                                                    
not  even  reduce  the  budget by  barely  $2  million.  She                                                                    
stressed the legislature could not  continue to consider the                                                                    
grants for  passage. She believed people  were approving the                                                                    
funds based on  emotion, not fact. She opined  there were no                                                                    
facts  that  the  grants would  help  prepare  children  for                                                                    
school. She did not support the motion.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Representative Knopp  asked if  the committee  was currently                                                                    
debating the motion to rescind [Amendment H DOE 5].                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Foster  clarified the committee was  addressing the                                                                    
motion to rescind [its earlier action].                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
2:01:06 PM                                                                                                                    
AT EASE                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
2:02:22 PM                                                                                                                    
RECONVENED                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Foster  requested a vote  on the motion  to rescind                                                                    
action on Amendment H DOE 5.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative Carpenter MAINTAINED his OBJECTION.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
A roll call vote was taken on the motion.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
IN FAVOR: Josephson, Johnston, Knopp,  LeBon, Ortiz, Wilson,                                                                    
Foster                                                                                                                          
OPPOSED: Merrick, Sullivan-Leonard, Tilton, Carpenter                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
The MOTION  to RESCIND  action on Amendment  H DOE  5 PASSED                                                                    
(7/4). There being NO further OBJECTION, it was so ordered.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilson  addressed Amendment  H DOE 5.  She reported                                                                    
that  during  the  [lunch]  break   she  had  been  able  to                                                                    
determine where some of the  grants went. She disagreed with                                                                    
the sentiment that  children who received the  PFD would not                                                                    
want to  give to  children who were  less fortunate  and may                                                                    
not have  as much  opportunity. Additionally,  she disagreed                                                                    
with the statement that all  programs were treated the same.                                                                    
She underscored  that all  programs were  not the  same. She                                                                    
reported  there was  another program  for $1.2  million. The                                                                    
program under discussion (costing  $2 million) had been done                                                                    
as a  pilot project  approximately eight years  earlier. She                                                                    
elaborated it had  been kept as a pilot  program because the                                                                    
legislature  was not  receiving the  answers on  whether the                                                                    
children were getting anything out of the program.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilson clarified she was  not going to speak to all                                                                    
Pre-K  programs because  each program  was done  differently                                                                    
with different  types of resources. She  emphasized that the                                                                    
grants under  discussion were monitored -  the children were                                                                    
tested before,  during, and after  the program (all  the way                                                                    
into Kindergarten)  to determine the program's  success. She                                                                    
explained it was a competitive  grant program; therefore, if                                                                    
a  program was  not getting  the results  the Department  of                                                                    
Education  and Early  Development  (DEED)  expected, it  was                                                                    
likely the program would not  continue to receive the grant.                                                                    
The funding was not automatic  - testing and parameters were                                                                    
in place. She detailed that  the information was recorded by                                                                    
DEED to  determine results. She  reiterated that  the grants                                                                    
went to  some of  the state's  less fortunate  areas without                                                                    
the  same  resources  as some  urban  areas.  She  cautioned                                                                    
against teaching children it was  not important to take care                                                                    
of  those who  may need  a little  extra that  unfortunately                                                                    
they did not have.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
2:05:30 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Foster believed  the $2  million had  been in  the                                                                    
prior year's budget; if the  funds were not removed it would                                                                    
be flat funding of the grants.  He pointed out they were not                                                                    
increasing funds to the program.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Carpenter  stated  that   in  a  year  where                                                                    
revenues  did not  match expenditures,  it was  necessary to                                                                    
make  tough decisions.  He  appreciated  the opportunity  to                                                                    
contrast  what  could  be  done  with  additional  resources                                                                    
coming from  the pockets of  residents. He stated  that "our                                                                    
children will not  have the opportunity to give  to the less                                                                    
fortunate"  because  the  current generation  would  already                                                                    
have  made the  decision for  them by  taking their  PFD. He                                                                    
furthered that in doing so,  it implied that current leaders                                                                    
knew best how to spend  the money coming from the investment                                                                    
earnings  of  the  Permanent  Fund. He  believed  it  was  a                                                                    
fundamental problem. He reasoned  they were teaching kids to                                                                    
look  to the  state to  solve "our  problems." He  continued                                                                    
that the lesson being taught was to grow the state.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Representative  LeBon  shared  that based  upon  information                                                                    
provided by  Co-Chair Wilson  he would  reverse his  vote on                                                                    
Amendment H DOE 5. He supported the Pre-K grant program.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Representative Knopp  gave kudos to Co-Chair  Wilson for the                                                                    
information she had  provided on the program.  He pointed to                                                                    
the value  of the information  on the competitive  nature of                                                                    
the  prescreening process  [by  the  department]. He  stated                                                                    
that  the  more  information  the committee  had  about  how                                                                    
programs  worked  made  it  easier   to  support  or  oppose                                                                    
something.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Sullivan-Leonard did  not believe  there was                                                                    
sufficient information on  the grant program to  vote on the                                                                    
issue.  She furthered  it was  a $2  million grant  going to                                                                    
particular Pre-K programs throughout  the state, but she had                                                                    
no  indication  who  the  recipients  were.  She  questioned                                                                    
whether  the  grants  went through  Head  Start  or  another                                                                    
educational program.  She did not  believe the  state should                                                                    
currently be  giving $2  million grants  given its  state of                                                                    
fiscal crisis. She did not support the funding.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Representative Josephson  countered that he did  not believe                                                                    
the state  was in  fiscal crisis. He  believed Alaska  was a                                                                    
very fortunate state  and people. He detailed  the state had                                                                    
no broad-based  tax and provided  a Permanent  Fund Dividend                                                                    
to residents.  While the  state had a  deficit on  paper, it                                                                    
was imperative  to have  revenue to  cover its  expenses. He                                                                    
stated it  was guaranteed  there would  be revenue  to cover                                                                    
the state's  expenses. He addressed the  topic of children's                                                                    
choices  and believed  it was  counterintuitive  to say  the                                                                    
amendment to  restore [Pre-K] funds  somehow ran  counter to                                                                    
helping children and their choices.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Representative Tilton  understood the program  was important                                                                    
to  someone  and  clarified  the   amendment  did  not  pass                                                                    
judgement on  the program. She  highlighted that  the grants                                                                    
had  been created  eight years  earlier when  the state  had                                                                    
been in  a different fiscal  situation. She believed  it was                                                                    
necessary  to reduce  the budget  given the  state's budget.                                                                    
She  considered that  despite the  good the  program may  be                                                                    
doing, it was necessary to  look at the fiscal situation and                                                                    
make hard decisions.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilson clarified that the  money was not affiliated                                                                    
with  Head  Start. She  detailed  that  the grant  recipient                                                                    
information was available online  - the funding moved around                                                                    
depending  on  the  need.  She  referred  to  comments  that                                                                    
providing the  funds was not the  state's responsibility and                                                                    
that government  should not be  doing education.  She stated                                                                    
that it  was in  the Alaska Constitution  for a  reason. She                                                                    
continued  that   not  all  things  were   included  in  the                                                                    
constitution [as  funding requirements]. The funds  would go                                                                    
towards  4-5-year-olds going  to school.  She stressed  that                                                                    
sometimes there were  programs that rose to the  top as long                                                                    
as  parameters were  applied. She  detailed  that the  funds                                                                    
went towards providing a service  to less fortunate children                                                                    
with fewer resources.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilson continued it  was the state's responsibility                                                                    
to ensure  the children  were getting  the help  they needed                                                                    
and that  outcomes could be  measured. She  highlighted that                                                                    
when the program  had been implemented eight  years back, it                                                                    
was  supposed  to grow  from  $2  million  per year  to  $10                                                                    
million per  year over time. She  noted it had not  grown to                                                                    
$10  million.  She  believed  it  showed  the  legislature's                                                                    
diligence  to  work  with  the program  and  ensure  it  was                                                                    
working.  She  noted  that  instead  of  making  communities                                                                    
dependent  on the  funds,  the grants  moved  from place  to                                                                    
place to help locations get started.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
2:12:41 PM                                                                                                                    
AT EASE                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
2:13:01 PM                                                                                                                    
RECONVENED                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Foster clarified  the motion  being considered  by                                                                    
the committee. The amendment would  cut $2 million from Pre-                                                                    
K.                                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
A roll call vote was taken on the motion.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
IN FAVOR: Merrick, Sullivan-Leonard, Tilton, Carpenter                                                                          
OPPOSED: Johnston,  Knopp, LeBon, Ortiz,  Josephson, Wilson,                                                                    
Foster                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
The MOTION to  adopt Amendment H DOE 5  FAILED (4/7). [Note:                                                                    
this roll  call was voided  at 2:15  p.m. and a  second roll                                                                    
call was taken for clarity.]                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
2:14:47 PM                                                                                                                    
AT EASE                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
2:15:22 PM                                                                                                                    
RECONVENED                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Foster VOIDED previous action.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
A roll call vote was taken  on the motion to adopt Amendment                                                                    
H DOE 5.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
IN FAVOR: Merrick, Sullivan-Leonard, Tilton, Carpenter                                                                          
OPPOSED: Knopp,  LeBon, Ortiz, Josephson,  Johnston, Wilson,                                                                    
Foster                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
The MOTION to adopt Amendment H DOE 5 FAILED (4/7).                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Merrick asked  if a  committee member  could                                                                    
move  to rescind  a previous  vote  at any  time during  the                                                                    
amendment process.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Wilson replied  in the  affirmative and  clarified                                                                    
that  action on  an amendment  could only  be rescinded  one                                                                    
time.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Representative     Josephson    Representative     Josephson                                                                    
communicated that  he did  not intend  to offer  Amendment H                                                                    
DOC 5 (copy on file).                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
2:16:55 PM                                                                                                                    
AT EASE                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
2:19:27 PM                                                                                                                    
RECONVENED                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Representative Carpenter  MOVED to  ADOPT Amendment H  DFG 1                                                                    
(copy on file):                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     Commercial Fisheries                                                                                                       
     Southeast Region Fisheries Management                                                                                      
     H DFG 1 - 50% reduction to travel                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     Restores FY20 GOV Amend reduction to travel.                                                                               
     1002 Fed Rcpts (Fed)     -26.9                                                                                             
     1003 GF/Match (UGF)      -1.5                                                                                              
     1004 Gen Fund (UGF}      -51.5                                                                                             
     1007 I/A Rcpts (Other)   -1.5                                                                                              
     1024 Fish/Game (Other)   -3.3                                                                                              
     1108 Stat Oesig (Other)  -7.4                                                                                              
     1109 Test Fish (DGF)     -7.2                                                                                              
     1201 CFEC Rcpts (DGF)    -2.4                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Ortiz OBJECTED.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Representative   Carpenter  reviewed   the  amendment.   The                                                                    
amendment  reflected   a  reduction   of  $101,000   to  the                                                                    
Department of Fish and Game  (DFG) travel budget as proposed                                                                    
in the  governor's budget. He elaborated  the department was                                                                    
taking a  hard look  at how it  organized and  developed its                                                                    
travel budget. He communicated DFG  believed it could reduce                                                                    
its travel footprint and have  the flexibility to move other                                                                    
line items if needed.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Representative Knopp  thought the amendment should  be taken                                                                    
up  after the  other Amendments  H DFG  2, 3,  4, and  5. He                                                                    
explained  that   if  those  amendments  were   adopted  the                                                                    
fisheries  management would  be eliminated  and Amendment  H                                                                    
DFG 1 would be unnecessary.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilson OBJECTED.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
2:20:59 PM                                                                                                                    
AT EASE                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
2:25:18 PM                                                                                                                    
RECONVENED                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Representative Carpenter WITHDREW Amendment  H DFG 1 pending                                                                    
several other  amendments [note:  the amendment  was offered                                                                    
again at 2:40 p.m.].                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Representative Carpenter MOVED to  ADOPT Amendments H DFG 2,                                                                    
3, 4, and 5 (copy on file):                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     Commercial Fisheries                                                                                                       
     H DFG 2 - Reduce Funding for Southeast                                                                                     
     Region Fisheries Management                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     Reduce funding for surveys and assessments in the                                                                          
     Southeast Region Fisheries Management.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     1004 Gen Fund (UGF) -257.8                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     Commercial Fisheries                                                                                                       
     Central Region Fisheries Management                                                                                        
     H DFG 3 - Central Region Fisheries Management                                                                              
     Reduction                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     Delete   funding    for   Central    Region   Fisheries                                                                    
     Management.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     1004 Gen Fund (UGF) -239.2                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     Commercial Fisheries                                                                                                       
     AYK Region Fisheries Management                                                                                            
    H DFG 4 - AYK Region Fisheries Management Reduction                                                                         
     Reduce Funding for Fisheries Management                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     1004 Gen Fund (UGF) -300.0                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     Commercial Fisheries                                                                                                       
     Westward Region Fisheries Management                                                                                       
     H DFG 5 - Westward Region Fisheries Management                                                                             
     Reduction                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     Reduce funding for surveys and assessments.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     1004 Gen Fund (UGF) -200.00                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilson OBJECTED for discussion.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Representative Carpenter reviewed  the amendments that would                                                                    
cut  approximately  $1 million  from  the  General Fund.  He                                                                    
reported  that  the previous  fiscal  year  funding for  the                                                                    
select projects  had been added  as an increment  during the                                                                    
budget  process. He  elaborated that  the projects  had been                                                                    
funded with the Charter Revolving  Loan Fund. He stated that                                                                    
the   fund  source   was  not   sustainable  and   had  been                                                                    
decremented from  the governor's amended budget.  He relayed                                                                    
the funding had  been added by the  finance subcommittee. He                                                                    
did not believe  the projects rose to a  priority level that                                                                    
warranted continuation.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Carpenter  shared  that the  four  fisheries                                                                    
management components  that received  an increment  were the                                                                    
Southeast region,  Central region, AYK region,  and Westward                                                                    
region.  The  amendment  would  result  in  a  decrement  of                                                                    
$239,000 for  the Central region, $257,000  to the Southeast                                                                    
region,  $300,000 to  the AYK  region, and  $200,000 to  the                                                                    
Westward region.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Ortiz spoke to his  opposition to the amendments.                                                                    
He detailed  that when he  had started with  the legislature                                                                    
the Department of Fish and  Game had the reputation of being                                                                    
the best  at developing policies  that resulted in  the best                                                                    
overall  management of  fisheries  resources. He  elaborated                                                                    
that  the success  required investment.  He  pointed to  the                                                                    
vast  Alaska coastline  and  explained it  was  not a  cheap                                                                    
venture  to conduct  the management.  He  stressed that  UGF                                                                    
resources going  into fish and  game management was  down 35                                                                    
percent  since  2015, which  did  not  include the  proposed                                                                    
amendments. He explained a reduction  in resources meant the                                                                    
department  could not  move  forward  with projects,  aerial                                                                    
surveys, and projects used to  promote the management of the                                                                    
state's resources.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair  Ortiz  reported  that DFG  was  constitutionally                                                                    
mandated  to manage  the state's  resources  to the  maximum                                                                    
sustainable  yield.   He  elaborated  that   fishermen  were                                                                    
allowed  to  catch  the   maximum  amount  possible  without                                                                    
endangering  the  future  fish  resource.  He  stressed  the                                                                    
importance  of  the task.  The  fishing  industry was  a  $6                                                                    
billion per  year industry  and was  the second  leading job                                                                    
provider in  the state. He underscored  the fishing industry                                                                    
was  the number  one  economic driver  in  his district.  He                                                                    
spoke to the importance of  fisheries management in terms of                                                                    
future sustainability  of the resource.  When the  funds for                                                                    
management  were  reduced it  meant  DFG  could not  conduct                                                                    
surveys or  assessments. If the  department did not  get the                                                                    
information it had  to manage on a  more conservative basis,                                                                    
meaning it had to reduce  the allowable catch for fishermen.                                                                    
The projects had been added  in the subcommittee in the past                                                                    
session  and were  all intended  to create  more opportunity                                                                    
for  fishermen statewide  in order  to produce  more revenue                                                                    
for themselves, crew, and the economy.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
2:33:16 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair  Ortiz continued  to address  the reason  for the                                                                    
projects. The funds had been put  forward as UGF in the past                                                                    
legislative  session  and  the other  legislative  body  had                                                                    
changed  the fund  source  to a  one-time  payment from  the                                                                    
Commercial  Charter   Fisheries  Revolving  Loan   Fund.  He                                                                    
explained the  fund source had  been expended.  He explained                                                                    
that putting  the funds  in the budget  was not  an addition                                                                    
from  the House  side  to UGF  resources.  He stressed  that                                                                    
adopting the  amendments would  prevent the  department from                                                                    
conducting  valuable   projects  and   potentially  disallow                                                                    
fishermen from  catching the  maximum sustainable  yield. He                                                                    
provided an example with a written statement:                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
     If these  funds were cut, the  otolith program measures                                                                    
     stock harvest composition of  hatchery and wild salmon.                                                                    
     It's an  invaluable tool  for in-season  management and                                                                    
     research. The Commercial  Fisheries Division receives a                                                                    
     positive   return  on   investment  in   funding  these                                                                    
     projects that  will lead directly to  increased revenue                                                                    
     for our  fishermen, local  communities, and  the state.                                                                    
     Conversely,  without  this  data  the  department  will                                                                    
     manage  more  conservatively,  resulting  in  decreased                                                                    
     revenue for our fishermen, local communities, and the                                                                      
     state.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Ortiz  explained the information was  one example                                                                    
of  one project.  He  noted  that the  otolith  came from  a                                                                    
fish's  ear and  provided information  about where  the fish                                                                    
came  from, whether  it was  a  hatchery or  wild fish,  and                                                                    
other detail.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Knopp agreed  with  sentiments expressed  by                                                                    
Vice-Chair Ortiz.  He stressed there was  no greater natural                                                                    
resource for  the state [than fisheries].  He referenced the                                                                    
constitutionality of having to  manage the state's fisheries                                                                    
for  greater sustainable  yield. He  found the  idea of  not                                                                    
managing   the   state's    fisheries   unconscionable.   He                                                                    
specifically  addressed Amendment  H DFG  3 and  pointed out                                                                    
that  funding would  be deleted  entirely for  the [Central]                                                                    
region,  whereas funding  was reduced  for other  regions in                                                                    
the  separate amendments.  He stressed  there was  likely no                                                                    
more important region to manage.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Representative Knopp  referenced the coded wire  tag program                                                                    
that allowed  the department to distinguish  hatchery versus                                                                    
wild  wish. He  highlighted  that the  hatchery pink  salmon                                                                    
return  had saved  commercial  fishermen  in Prince  William                                                                    
Sound  the  previous  season. Additionally,  the  amendments                                                                    
would cut out the weir  operational times. He explained that                                                                    
weirs  were perhaps  the most  critical  tool for  assessing                                                                    
escapement  for  in-season   management.  He  stressed  that                                                                    
without the tools  the department would have  to manage more                                                                    
conservatively, and great opportunities  would be missed for                                                                    
commercial and sport fishing. He  questioned how it would be                                                                    
possible to not manage  fisheries across the state including                                                                    
Unalaska,  Bristol  Bay,  Cook  Inlet,  and  Prince  William                                                                    
Sound. He found the  amendments unsettling, particularly due                                                                    
to  the importance  of the  fishing industry  in Alaska.  He                                                                    
remarked the state  spent more on the  Department of Natural                                                                    
Resources and oil and gas surveys.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
2:37:50 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Ortiz MAINTAINED his OBJECTION.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Representative   Carpenter   provided   wrap   up   on   the                                                                    
amendments. He  noted the legislature  had a  reputation for                                                                    
being unable to  control state spending. He  stressed it was                                                                    
one  of the  big  factors responsible  for slowing  Alaska's                                                                    
economic growth. He believed the  reduction was necessary to                                                                    
avoid putting  the state's future fiscal  condition at risk.                                                                    
He noted an  argument could be made for  keeping every state                                                                    
funded  program. He  underscored the  importance of  keeping                                                                    
the bigger  picture in  mind. He stated  that if  the budget                                                                    
was  not  cut to  an  affordable  level and  Permanent  Fund                                                                    
savings  were used,  the  state would  be  left to  increase                                                                    
taxes.  He  made  a distinction  between  funding  what  was                                                                    
necessary  versus  funding  what was  wanted.  He  supported                                                                    
funding what was necessary.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
A roll call vote was taken on the motion.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
IN FAVOR: Merrick, Sullivan-Leonard, Tilton, Carpenter                                                                          
OPPOSED: LeBon,  Ortiz, Josephson, Johnston,  Knopp, Wilson,                                                                    
Foster                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
The MOTION to  adopt Amendments H DFG 2, 3,  4, and 5 FAILED                                                                    
(4/7).                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
2:40:06 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative Carpenter  MOVED to  ADOPT Amendment H  DFG 1                                                                    
(copy on file):                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     Commercial Fisheries                                                                                                       
     Southeast Region Fisheries Management                                                                                      
     H DFG 1 - 50% reduction to travel                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     Restores FY20 GOV Amend reduction to travel.                                                                               
     1002 Fed Rcpts (Fed)     -26.9                                                                                             
     1003 GF/Match (UGF)      -1.5                                                                                              
     1004 Gen Fund (UGF}      -51.5                                                                                             
     1007 I/A Rcpts (Other)   -1.5                                                                                              
     1024 Fish/Game (Other)   -3.3                                                                                              
     1108 Stat Oesig (Other)  -7.4                                                                                              
     1109 Test Fish (DGF)     -7.2                                                                                              
     1201 CFEC Rcpts (DGF)    -2.4                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilson OBJECTED for discussion.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Carpenter  stated  the amendment  was  a  50                                                                    
percent  travel reduction  [to DFG],  which he  believed was                                                                    
necessary.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Representative Knopp opposed the  amendment. He reported the                                                                    
proposal had been made to  the DFG subcommittee and had been                                                                    
rejected.  He  remarked  on   the  committee's  decision  to                                                                    
support   fisheries   management   and   believed   it   was                                                                    
appropriate to leave the funding for travel in place.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Wilson clarified  that a  50 percent  reduction to                                                                    
travel was not a 50  percent reduction to each division; the                                                                    
reduction  was  50 percent  to  the  entire department.  She                                                                    
requested a breakout of the reduction per division.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Ortiz  asked for clarification. He  stated the 50                                                                    
percent  travel   reduction  fell  under  the   category  of                                                                    
Southeast region  fisheries management.  He asked if  the 50                                                                    
percent reduction was specific to the Southeast region.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
2:41:47 PM                                                                                                                    
AT EASE                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
2:46:16 PM                                                                                                                    
RECONVENED                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Representative Carpenter replied  the reduction was specific                                                                    
to the  Southeast region fisheries management.  He clarified                                                                    
it  had not  been  his  intent to  single  out the  specific                                                                    
region. He  detailed that the  subcommittee did  not approve                                                                    
any of the  travel reductions. He explained it  was an error                                                                    
to   only  focus   on  one   fisheries  management   region;                                                                    
therefore, he WITHDREW Amendment H DFG 1.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
2:47:16 PM                                                                                                                    
AT EASE                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
2:47:54 PM                                                                                                                    
RECONVENED                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Ortiz  MOVED to  ADOPT Amendment  DFG 6  (copy on                                                                    
file):                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     Wildlife Conservation                                                                                                      
     H DFG 6 - Add Fish and Game Fund Authority to Provide                                                                      
     Match for Pittman-Robertson Funds                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     Fish and  Game fund  authority is  provided exclusively                                                                    
     for the  purpose of matching  Federal Pittman-Robertson                                                                    
     (P-R) funds  and establishing sufficient  safety margin                                                                    
     for  the department  so as  to avoid  reversion of  P-R                                                                    
     funds in future years.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     1024 Fish/Game (Other)   200.0                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilson OBJECTED for discussion.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair  Ortiz reviewed  the amendment  that would  allow                                                                    
DFG  to  take  better  advantage of  full  federal  Pittman-                                                                    
Robertson  funds for  wildlife management  and conservation.                                                                    
He read from a prepared statement:                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
     Fish and Game's fund  authority is provided exclusively                                                                    
     for the  purpose of matching  federal Pittman-Robertson                                                                    
     funds and  establishing a sufficient safety  margin for                                                                    
     the  department so  as to  avoid reversion  of Pittman-                                                                    
     Robertson   funds  in   future   years.  Providing   an                                                                    
     additional  $200,000 brings  the total  match up  to $1                                                                    
     million fish  and game, which allows  the department to                                                                    
     leverage  $3 million  in Pittman-Robertson  funds. This                                                                    
     means that the department will  not be turning away any                                                                    
     money  this year  and will  establish a  small $200,000                                                                    
     safety margin. While this  prevents the department from                                                                    
     turning away  federal fiscal year  19 funds  that would                                                                    
     have otherwise expired in fiscal  year FY 20, they have                                                                    
     two  years to  obligate  funds. Fiscal  year runs  from                                                                    
     October 1 through September 30.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Representative   Sullivan-Leonard   asked  for   detail   on                                                                    
Pittman-Robertson funds.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Ortiz replied that he  was not the best person to                                                                    
explain the funds. He  detailed that Pittman-Robertson funds                                                                    
were used to help DFG  manage the state's wildlife resources                                                                    
more effectively throughout the state.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
2:50:44 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair  Johnston recalled  that the  federal funds  were                                                                    
derived  from a  fee  charged on  ammunition purchases.  She                                                                    
believed the  money went back  to the  state - she  noted it                                                                    
was not  a UGF  fund. The  funds were  used for  things like                                                                    
hunting  safety and  bear management.  She stated  it was  a                                                                    
shame to leave federal receipts on the table.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair  Ortiz added  that accessing  the  funds had  the                                                                    
full support of  the guiding and hunting  lodge industry. He                                                                    
noted  the issue  was  more relevant  to  the Interior  than                                                                    
Southeast.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilson WITHDREW her OBJECTION.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
There  being NO  further OBJECTION,  Amendment H  DFG 6  was                                                                    
ADOPTED.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
2:52:29 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Ortiz  MOVED to  ADOPT Amendment  DFG 7  (copy on                                                                    
file):                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     STRUCTURAL CHANGE:                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     New Structure:                                                                                                             
     DEPARTMENT: Fish and Game                                                                                                  
     APPROPRIATION: Habitat                                                                                                     
     ALLOCATION: Habitat                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     Existing Structure:                                                                                                        
     DEPARTMENT: Fish and Game                                                                                                  
     APPROPRIATION: Statewide Support Services                                                                                  
     ALLOCATION: Habitat                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     EXPLANATION:  The Division of Habitat is moved into                                                                        
     its own appropriation to prevent funds from being                                                                          
     moved outside of this program.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilson OBJECTED for discussion.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Ortiz reported that  currently the DFG budget was                                                                    
set  up   with  four  appropriations   including  commercial                                                                    
fisheries, sport fish,  wildlife conservation, and statewide                                                                    
support  services.   He  explained  that  the   Division  of                                                                    
Subsistence  Research  and  the  Division  of  Habitat  were                                                                    
housed as  allocations under  the statewide  support service                                                                    
appropriation.  The amendment  had no  fiscal impact  on the                                                                    
budget.  He  elaborated  that  the  amendment  would  create                                                                    
appropriations instead  of allocations  for the  Division of                                                                    
Subsistence Research  and the Division of  Habitat just like                                                                    
the other DFG divisions.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Representative Josephson asked what  concern the sponsor had                                                                    
that  monies  could  be  moved   from  the  allocations  for                                                                    
programs outside their purpose.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair  Ortiz answered  that as  funding adjustments  to                                                                    
all agencies moved forward the  amendment was to ensure that                                                                    
there would be no move  away from subsistence management and                                                                    
wildlife conservation.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Representative Tilton asked if  the issue had been discussed                                                                    
in the subcommittee process.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair  Ortiz  explained   there  had  been  significant                                                                    
discussion  about  a  variety   of  other  things,  but  the                                                                    
subcommittee had  spoken about the particular  topic at some                                                                    
level.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
2:55:07 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative Sullivan-Leonard  asked if the  amendment was                                                                    
in response to  a request by the  administration for habitat                                                                    
to have its own division.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair   Ortiz   answered   that  he   could   not   say                                                                    
definitively  that  the  amendment  was  a  request  of  the                                                                    
administration. The amendment was  in response to the intent                                                                    
of the subcommittee to ensure  that the state did not ignore                                                                    
the  issue  of  subsistence and  wildlife  conservation.  He                                                                    
added  that subsistence  was a  substantial issue  for rural                                                                    
communities throughout the state.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilson WITHDREW her OBJECTION.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
There  being NO  further OBJECTION,  Amendment H  DFG 7  was                                                                    
ADOPTED.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
2:56:21 PM                                                                                                                    
AT EASE                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
3:01:02 PM                                                                                                                    
RECONVENED                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Ortiz  MOVED to  ADOPT Amendment  DFG 8  (copy on                                                                    
file):                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     STRUCTURAL CHANGE:                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     New Structure:                                                                                                             
     DEPARTMENT: Fish and Game                                                                                                  
     APPROPRIATION: State Subsistence Research                                                                                  
     ALLOCATION: State Subsistence Research                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     Existing Structure:                                                                                                        
     DEPARTMENT: Fish and Game                                                                                                  
     APPROPRIATION: Statewide Support Services                                                                                  
     ALLOCATION: State Subsistence Research                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     EXPLANATION:   The Subsistence  Division is  moved into                                                                    
     its  own  appropriation  to prevent  funds  from  being                                                                    
     moved outside of this program.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilson OBJECTED for discussion.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair  Ortiz   noted  that   he  should   have  bundled                                                                    
Amendments  7  and  8.  He  detailed  that  the  subsistence                                                                    
portion of his explanation for  Amendment H DFG 7 applied to                                                                    
Amendment  H DFG  8; the  arguments were  the same  for both                                                                    
amendments.   The   amendment   would  create   a   separate                                                                    
appropriation for the Division of Subsistence Research.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Wilson  WITHDREW  her OBJECTION.  There  being  NO                                                                    
further OBJECTION, Amendment H DFG 8 was ADOPTED.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
3:02:15 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Ortiz  MOVED to ADOPT  Amendments H DFG 9  and 10                                                                    
(copy on file):                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     Commercial Fisheries                                                                                                       
     Southeast Region Fisheries Management                                                                                      
     Amendment H DFG 9                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     GA 3/27 United States and Canada Pacific Salmon Treaty                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     Increased federal receipt  authority will cover funding                                                                    
     coming  to Alaska  due  to  financial commitments  made                                                                    
     between  the US  and  Canada as  part  of the  recently                                                                    
     renegotiated US and Canada  Pacific Salmon Treaty Annex                                                                    
     which  establishes  catch  sharing  agreements  in  the                                                                    
     salmon fisheries  off of the coasts  of Alaska, British                                                                    
     Columbia and the  Pacific Northwest states (Washington,                                                                    
     Oregon,  and  California).   Alaska  is  a  significant                                                                    
     harvester of these fish.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
     The department is a party  to this international treaty                                                                    
     to  ensure conservation  and  access  to this  valuable                                                                    
     resource  that is  vitally  important  to the  regional                                                                    
     economy  of  Southeast  Alaska.  Increased  funding  to                                                                    
     Alaska  is   intended  to  support   several  in-person                                                                    
     meetings  of Treaty  stakeholder  panels and  technical                                                                    
     committees  which  occur  annually  to  establish  pre-                                                                    
     season    harvest    limits   and    harvest    sharing                                                                    
     arrangements,  provide  for  interagency  coordination,                                                                    
     assessment   of  stock   status,   and  evaluation   of                                                                    
     postseason  fishery  performance   in  accordance  with                                                                    
     Treaty  provisions. The  incoming grant  increment also                                                                    
     pays  for  fishery   stock  assessment  and  management                                                                    
     programs  needed to  implement the  Treaty, as  well as                                                                    
     meeting participation and all travel costs.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     1002 Fed Rcpts (Fed)     500.0                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     Sport Fisheries Sport Fisheries                                                                                            
     GA 3/27 United States and Canada Pacific Salmon Treaty                                                                     
     Amendment H DFG 10                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     Increased federal receipt  authority will cover funding                                                                    
     coming  to Alaska  due  to  financial commitments  made                                                                    
     between  the US  and  Canada as  part  of the  recently                                                                    
     renegotiated US and Canada  Pacific Salmon Treaty Annex                                                                    
     which  establishes  catch  sharing  agreements  in  the                                                                    
     salmon fisheries  off of the coasts  of Alaska, British                                                                    
     Columbia and the  Pacific Northwest states (Washington,                                                                    
     Oregon,  and  California).   Alaska  is  a  significant                                                                    
     harvester of these fish.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
     The department is a party  to this international treaty                                                                    
     to  ensure conservation  and  access  to this  valuable                                                                    
     resource  that is  vitally  important  to the  regional                                                                    
     economy  of  Southeast  Alaska.  Increased  funding  to                                                                    
     Alaska  is   intended  to  support   several  in-person                                                                    
     meetings  of Treaty  stakeholder  panels and  technical                                                                    
     committees  which  occur  annually  to  establish  pre-                                                                    
     season    harvest    limits   and    harvest    sharing                                                                    
     arrangements,  provide  for  interagency  coordination,                                                                    
     assessment   of  stock   status,   and  evaluation   of                                                                    
     postseason  fishery  performance   in  accordance  with                                                                    
     Treaty  provisions. The  incoming grant  increment also                                                                    
     pays  for  fishery   stock  assessment  and  management                                                                    
     programs  needed to  implement the  Treaty, as  well as                                                                    
     meeting participation and all travel costs.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     1002 Fed Rcpts (Fed)     500.0                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilson OBJECTED for discussion.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair  Ortiz  reviewed  the amendments  that  had  been                                                                    
requested by  the governor. The  amendments would  include a                                                                    
$500,000   increment  in   federal  receipt   authority  for                                                                    
Southeast  commercial fisheries  management and  $500,000 in                                                                    
federal  receipt authority  for sports  fish management.  He                                                                    
elaborated  the money  was from  the  federal government  to                                                                    
meet the Pacific Salmon Treaty obligations.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Foster surmised the amendments  were at the request                                                                    
of the governor.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Ortiz agreed.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilson WITHDREW her OBJECTION.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
There being NO further OBJECTION,  Amendments H DFG 9 and 10                                                                    
were ADOPTED.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
3:03:28 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilson  MOVED to ADOPT  Amendment H GOV 1  (copy on                                                                    
file):                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
    Commissions/Special Offices Human Rights Commission                                                                         
     Agency: Office of the Governor                                                                                             
     H GOV 1 - Reduce Field Representatives                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     The Human Rights Commission currently has 9 Field                                                                          
     Representatives. This would decrease 3 of 9 positions                                                                      
     all located in Anchorage.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     1004 Gen Fund (UGF) -371.2                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Representative Josephson OBJECTED.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilson  reviewed the  amendment. The  amendment was                                                                    
in response to her frustration  about a recent incident. She                                                                    
explained  that   an  individual   from  the   Human  Rights                                                                    
Commission  had put  their  business card  on  a vehicle  in                                                                    
response to  a bumper sticker  they opposed. She  thought if                                                                    
the individual  had that much  time to take such  an action,                                                                    
perhaps  the commission  did not  need all  of the  money it                                                                    
had.  She hoped  there  was further  investigation going  on                                                                    
within  the commission  to take  care of  the incident.  She                                                                    
WITHDREW Amendment H GOV 1.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilson  MOVED to ADOPT  Amendment H GOV 2  (copy on                                                                    
file):                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     Office of Management and Budget Office of Management                                                                       
     and Budget                                                                                                                 
     H GOV 2 - Delete two full-time positions.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     Delete two new positions in the Office of Management                                                                       
     and Budget.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     1004 Gen Fund (UGF) -398.3                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Ortiz OBJECTED for discussion.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilson  reviewed the amendment. She  explained that                                                                    
the  two full-time  positions were  originally  going to  be                                                                    
moved from DFG and put into  the Office of the Governor. She                                                                    
noted the  positions would have  nothing to do  with fishing                                                                    
and  would be  under  the Office  of  Management and  Budget                                                                    
(OMB) within the  Office of the Governor.  She detailed that                                                                    
the   Legislative  Finance   Division   had  specified   the                                                                    
positions could not  be moved because they would  have to be                                                                    
related to  fishing. She elaborated that  instead there were                                                                    
now two  new positions and  new funding in OMB  [proposed by                                                                    
the administration].  The legislature had been  told the new                                                                    
positions were  to create efficiency.  She did not  know how                                                                    
adding two new positions to  a growing budget would increase                                                                    
efficiency. The subcommittee had  asked if OMB had vacancies                                                                    
and the  answer had been yes.  She did not know  why two new                                                                    
positions would be added when one person could do the job.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
3:05:46 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Sullivan-Leonard asked  for  more detail  on                                                                    
the positions.  She noted  that the  administrative services                                                                    
director (ASD)  positions had been  moved to OMB.  She asked                                                                    
if the positions were part of the ASD move to OMB.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilson answered  that the positions were  a part of                                                                    
the ASD move from agencies  to OMB. She stated the positions                                                                    
would be directors not tied to any agency.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Representative Sullivan-Leonard  noted that  previously, the                                                                    
ASDs had  been housed  within departments and  had performed                                                                    
operations and  accounting work  with the  commissioner. She                                                                    
asked if the positions were part  of that group that was now                                                                    
within  OMB  and  their  work  would be  on  behalf  of  the                                                                    
division. She wondered if they  were taking away a component                                                                    
that would help DFG.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Wilson clarified  that the  ASD positions  now had                                                                    
two  offices -  one  located in  OMB and  one  in their  own                                                                    
agency. She  elaborated that  there had  been one  person in                                                                    
charge of ASDs  and now three positions  were being proposed                                                                    
for some reason.  She explained that two  positions had been                                                                    
added to provide  oversight to the ASDs.  She emphasized the                                                                    
addition created budget growth.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Carpenter wondered  how  they were  creating                                                                    
two new  administrative directors if no  new departments had                                                                    
been created. He did not understand the shift.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Wilson agreed.  She questioned  why two  positions                                                                    
were being  added when one  person had  done the job  in the                                                                    
past. She  did not  think it  was efficient  to add  two new                                                                    
positions and  she did not  think there had  been discussion                                                                    
showing  the  positions  were   needed.  She  asked  whether                                                                    
members wanted to  give part of the  Permanent Fund Dividend                                                                    
to grow two new positions in the governor's office.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
3:08:42 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Foster  had been  under  the  impression that  two                                                                    
positions  were supposed  to have  been taken  from DFG  and                                                                    
added to  the governor's  office, which  would have  been an                                                                    
offset,  but he  thought  the request  had  been denied.  He                                                                    
believed the two  positions had remained in DFG  and two new                                                                    
positions were proposed for OMB.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilson affirmed. She explained  that taking the DFG                                                                    
positions related  to subsistence and hatcheries  would have                                                                    
required  a connection  to be  maintained to  fisheries. She                                                                    
was glad there were  parameters that prevented grabbing PCNs                                                                    
[position  control numbers]  from somewhere.  She reiterated                                                                    
the  positions  were brand  new  and  would mean  additional                                                                    
funding going into the budget.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Ortiz WITHDREW his OBJECTION.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
There  being NO  further OBJECTION,  Amendment H  GOV 2  was                                                                    
ADOPTED.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
3:10:21 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative Knopp  MOVED to  ADOPT Amendment GOV  3 (copy                                                                    
on file):                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     Office of Management and Budget                                                                                            
     H  GOV 3  - Add  intent that  OMB remove  all AOMs  and                                                                    
     Division Op Managers                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     Wordage:                                                                                                                   
     It is the intent of  the legislature that the Office of                                                                    
     Management  and  Budget  submit the  FY21  Budget  with                                                                    
     decrements that  reflect cost-savings  and efficiencies                                                                    
     related   to   the   work   and   operations   of   all                                                                    
     Administrative   Operations   Managers   and   Division                                                                    
     Operations     Managers     throughout    all     State                                                                    
     Departments/Agencies;  up  to  the elimination  of  all                                                                    
     positions identified.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     Explanation:                                                                                                               
     Through  review of  all  Organization  Charts and  PCNs                                                                    
     under  the title  of Administrative  Operations Manager                                                                    
     and Division  Operations Manager,  there appears  to be                                                                    
     redundancies in responsibilities  and operations. It is                                                                    
     the  intent of  this  amendment to  hear  from the  all                                                                    
     departments/divisions as  to why they will  or will not                                                                    
     seek to retain these positions.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Representative Sullivan-Leonard OBJECTED for discussion.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Knopp  reviewed  the  amendment  that  would                                                                    
insert   intent  language   into  the   budget  asking   the                                                                    
administration to  look at the positions.  He explained that                                                                    
at the start  of the budget process he had  seen attempts by                                                                    
the administration  to cost-shift  and pull in  revenue from                                                                    
fisheries  and  oil and  gas  taxes  to achieve  a  balanced                                                                    
budget.  He had  not  seen any  attempts  at looking  within                                                                    
organizations for  reductions. He noted that  the public had                                                                    
been asking for  a reduction in government.  He had reviewed                                                                    
organizational charts and had  found operations and division                                                                    
managers in the  low 70s range across  departments. He noted                                                                    
that   in  some   cases   the   positions  were   redundant.                                                                    
Additionally, in  some cases there  were no  employees below                                                                    
the  managers on  the organizational  charts. The  intent of                                                                    
the language  was to ask  the administration to look  at the                                                                    
positions  in the  next budget  cycle  to determine  whether                                                                    
reductions could be made.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Representative Knopp  recalled that during the  past [Frank]                                                                    
Murkowski administration  the deputy director  positions had                                                                    
been eliminated.  He explained that much  of those positions                                                                    
had been hired back  later in operational manager positions.                                                                    
He  noted that  since that  time, deputy  director positions                                                                    
had been  reinstated. When accounting  for the  74 positions                                                                    
the cost was approximately $13 million to $14 million.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Representative Sullivan-Leonard WITHDREW her OBJECTION.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
There  being NO  further OBJECTION,  Amendment H  GOV 3  was                                                                    
ADOPTED.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
3:12:51 PM                                                                                                                    
AT EASE                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
3:27:25 PM                                                                                                                    
RECONVENED                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Foster gave  members a  few moments  to come  back                                                                    
into the room.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Johnston MOVED to ADOPT  Amendment HSS A (copy on                                                                    
file):                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     DEPARTMENT: Health and Social Services                                                                                     
     APPROPRIATION: Medicaid Services                                                                                           
     ALLOCATION: (new) Medicaid Services                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     STRUCTURE  CHANGE  TO   CONSOLIDATE  MEDICAID  SERVICES                                                                    
     APPROPRIATION:  This  amendment adopts  the  Governor's                                                                    
     proposed  structure  change  to the  Medicaid  Services                                                                    
     appropriation   creating   a  new   Medicaid   Services                                                                    
     allocation.   This   structure  change   includes   the                                                                    
     transfer  of  the   following  three  allocations  with                                                                    
     funding into this new, single allocation:                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
        1. Health Care Medicaid Services                                                                                      
        2. Behavioral Health Medicaid Services                                                                                
        3. Senior and Disabilities Medicaid Services                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     EXPLANATION:  This   action  reflects   the  Governor's                                                                    
     proposal to  consolidate all Medicaid  allocations into                                                                    
     one  allocation  for administrative  efficiencies.  The                                                                    
     Adult Preventative Dental  Medicaid Services allocation                                                                    
     is not included.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilson OBJECTED for discussion.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Johnston  reviewed the amendment that  would mean                                                                    
a  consolidation  of  services,   which  was  something  the                                                                    
Department  of Health  and Social  Services (DHSS)  had been                                                                    
considering   for  some   time.  She   noted  the   previous                                                                    
administration had also discussed  the idea. She highlighted                                                                    
a  concern  that one  of  the  three  services would  be  in                                                                    
jeopardy if  consolidation occurred.  She explained  that in                                                                    
discussions  with  the  department and  OMB,  the  amendment                                                                    
reflected  more of  an efficiency  measure between  DHSS and                                                                    
OMB and  less of a  consolidation of services.  She detailed                                                                    
it was a consolidation of the budget process.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Johnston elaborated that  in the coming year, the                                                                    
subcommittees  would still  be  able to  determine how  much                                                                    
each of  the three services (Health  Care Medicaid Services,                                                                    
Behavioral    Health   Medicaid    Services,   Senior    and                                                                    
Disabilities  Medicaid Services)  cost.  She furthered  that                                                                    
none of  the services  could be  cut; they  had to  be fully                                                                    
paid according to  law and the state's  management plan. She                                                                    
explained  that the  only way  to  cut any  of the  services                                                                    
would  be  if  the  state management  plan  changed  in  the                                                                    
Medicaid reform process.  The one other concern  was that in                                                                    
the past there were a  couple of years where the legislature                                                                    
short-funded Medicaid.  The services had not  received a cut                                                                    
at  that  time,  but  they   had  been  paid  late  via  the                                                                    
supplemental budget. She underscored  that the services were                                                                    
legally  required to  be paid  according  to the  management                                                                    
plan. The  amendment did not include  the adult preventative                                                                    
dental  Medicaid  services  because it  had  been  allocated                                                                    
differently in the subcommittee report.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Tilton  thanked  the amendment  sponsor  for                                                                    
putting the  amendment forward.  She reported  the amendment                                                                    
would save  the department  about 2,000 hours  annually that                                                                    
were spent moving transactions back  and forth to do cleanup                                                                    
work. She supported the amendment.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilson WITHDREW her OBJECTION.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Josephson  OBJECTED.  He stated  there  were                                                                    
individuals   in  the   senior  and   disabilities  Medicaid                                                                    
services stakeholder group who  had opposed being commingled                                                                    
-  that  it was  unnecessary  and  would be  detrimental  to                                                                    
individuals. He  asked the sponsor  to explain why  that was                                                                    
untrue.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair  Johnston replied  the state  legally had  to pay                                                                    
what the  state management  plan designated the  state would                                                                    
pay. She understood  their angst because the  last couple of                                                                    
years the  payments had  been delayed  for all  three groups                                                                    
due to  legislative issues. She  emphasized that  the groups                                                                    
all  had  to  be  made   whole.  She  underscored  that  the                                                                    
amendment  was not  an  effort  to "pull  a  fast one."  She                                                                    
explained  the amendment  would result  in allowing  DHSS to                                                                    
work  more efficiently  with OMB  and would  save money  and                                                                    
time.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Representative Josephson WITHDREW his OBJECTION.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
There  being  NO  further OBJECTION,  Amendment  HSS  A  was                                                                    
ADOPTED.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
3:33:26 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Johnston MOVED to ADOPT  Amendment HSS B (copy on                                                                    
file):                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     DEPARTMENT: Health and Social Services                                                                                     
     APPROPRIATION: Medicaid Services                                                                                           
     ALLOCATION: (new, consolidated) Medicaid Services                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     DELETE:  $58,009.6 GF Match/code 1003, grants line                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     EXPLANATION: This action deletes partial funding                                                                           
     associated with the Governor's proposed Medicaid Phase                                                                     
     One Reductions ($90,907.1 UGF).                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilson OBJECTED for discussion.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Johnston  reviewed the amendment. She  noted that                                                                    
the committee  had previously been  given a  Medicaid reform                                                                    
presentation  highlighting the  process  DHSS was  currently                                                                    
involved  in.  She  explained  that DHSS  had  come  to  the                                                                    
subcommittee  hoping to  find $103  million in  savings, but                                                                    
the  number had  been  reduced to  $91  million because  the                                                                    
original  figure  had  included  a  $12  million  Behavioral                                                                    
Health grant,  which was not  part of Medicaid  savings. The                                                                    
co-chairs  of  the  subcommittee   policy  group  had  spent                                                                    
significant  time  determining  what they  were  comfortable                                                                    
with.  She  explained  that  the  reduction  was  either  an                                                                    
unallocated cut or  an advisory vote because  the items were                                                                    
all   things   the   department   could   do   without   the                                                                    
legislature's authorization.  She elaborated that  the items                                                                    
were  under regulation  and involved  negotiations with  the                                                                    
federal government with the state management plan.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Johnston reported  the amendment represented what                                                                    
the subcommittee  chairs felt comfortable  with in  terms of                                                                    
Medicaid  adjustments. The  list  included  a 915K  enhanced                                                                    
federal  match for  $123,000, electronic  visit verification                                                                    
for $440,000, end stage renal  disease rate with methodology                                                                    
for  $1 million,  expand lock-in  program for  $210 million,                                                                    
high-cost drug  reimbursement for $2.1  million, implemented                                                                    
hospital  diagnosis  related  groups  for  $  $4.5  million,                                                                    
implement  nurses' hotline  for $500,000,  implement nurses'                                                                    
home  acuity   levels  for  $2  million,   limited  physical                                                                    
occupational speech  therapy visits  to 12  per year  for $1                                                                    
million,  reduce  timely  filing  for  $10  million,  travel                                                                    
reclaiming for $6.7 million,  tribal reclaiming for Medicare                                                                    
part A  and B for  $1.95 million, withholding  inflation for                                                                    
healthcare services for  $4.5 million, withholding inflation                                                                    
for the Division of Behavioral  Health for $1.5 million, and                                                                    
withholding  inflation for  Senior  and Disability  Services                                                                    
for $4.9 million, for a total cut of $58.96 million.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
3:37:21 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Tilton   MOVED  to  ADOPT  Amendment   1  to                                                                    
Amendment HSS B. The amendment  would bring the total cut up                                                                    
to  the  $102,907,000 that  had  been  brought to  the  full                                                                    
committee in  a DHSS  presentation. She elaborated  that the                                                                    
committee  had been  told by  the department  that it  could                                                                    
handle cuts to the items to  reduce the Medicaid cost to the                                                                    
state.  She highlighted  the department  could move  forward                                                                    
with  cuts  without  the  legislature's  authorization.  She                                                                    
thought the  legislature should believe the  department when                                                                    
it was trying to find ways to help save money.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilson OBJECTED.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair   Johnston  asked   for  verification   that  the                                                                    
proposed amendment to Amendment HSS  B would include the $12                                                                    
million  Behavioral  Health  grant  that  was  not  part  of                                                                    
Medicaid.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Representative Tilton replied affirmatively.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Foster  stated the amendment would  reduce Medicaid                                                                    
by $102 million.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Representative Sullivan-Leonard  supported the  amendment to                                                                    
the amendment.  She recalled the  department had  been clear                                                                    
it could handle the reduction  from the Medicaid budget. She                                                                    
noted  that  in  a  time  of  fiscal  crisis,  the  proposed                                                                    
amendment by  Representative Tilton  was a small  portion of                                                                    
the DHSS and Medicaid  budgets. She believed the legislature                                                                    
needed  to  continue  reducing costs.  She  appreciated  the                                                                    
original amendment  but did  not believe  the cuts  went far                                                                    
enough. She reiterated  that DHSS had told  the committee it                                                                    
could  withstand the  cuts. She  reported  that David  Teal,                                                                    
Director of  the Legislative Finance Division  had also told                                                                    
the committee the cuts could be made without repercussions.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilson MAINTAINED her OBJECTION.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
A roll call vote was taken on the motion.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
IN FAVOR: Merrick, Sullivan-Leonard, Tilton, Carpenter                                                                          
OPPOSED: Ortiz,  Josephson, Johnston, Knopp,  LeBon, Wilson,                                                                    
Foster                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
The MOTION  to adopt Amendment  1 to Amendment HSS  B FAILED                                                                    
(4/7).                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
3:41:15 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Tilton   MOVED  to  ADOPT  Amendment   2  to                                                                    
Amendment HSS B. The amendment  would remove the $12 million                                                                    
Behavioral Health grant from the $102 million.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilson OBJECTED for discussion.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Wilson  asked if  the  amendment  would be  a  $90                                                                    
million reduction.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Tilton   replied  the  reduction   would  be                                                                    
$90.907 million.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Ortiz asked about the  impact of the amendment to                                                                    
Amendment HSS B.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Representative   Tilton  answered   that   Amendment  2   to                                                                    
Amendment  HSS B  would remove  the $12  million piece  [for                                                                    
Behavioral  Health grants].  The  total  reduction would  be                                                                    
$90.907 million.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilson MAINTAINED her OBJECTION.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
A roll call vote was taken on the motion.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
IN FAVOR: Sullivan-Leonard, Tilton, Carpenter, Merrick                                                                          
OPPOSED: Josephson,  Johnston, Knopp, LeBon,  Ortiz, Wilson,                                                                    
Foster                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
The MOTION  to adopt Amendment  2 to Amendment HSS  B FAILED                                                                    
(4/7).                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
3:43:51 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Tilton   MOVED  to  ADOPT  Amendment   3  to                                                                    
Amendment HSS  B. The amendment would  increase the proposed                                                                    
reduction to $82,633,400.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilson OBJECTED.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Representative Tilton  explained the amendment  would remove                                                                    
the  $8  million for  adult  preventative  dental care  from                                                                    
Medicaid Services.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Johnston  opposed the amendment to  Amendment HSS                                                                    
B.  She  reported  that  in the  past  the  legislature  had                                                                    
underfunded  Medicaid.  She  had  hopeful  anticipation  the                                                                    
department  and  administration   could  find  the  savings.                                                                    
However, she felt the legislature  would have some liability                                                                    
if it  took an unallocated cut  that was too large.  She was                                                                    
concerned   about   a   scenario   where   the   legislature                                                                    
underfunded Medicaid  and the administration could  not meet                                                                    
its goal. She  did not want the situation to  result in late                                                                    
payments  to   the  three   groups  [Health   Care  Medicaid                                                                    
Services,  Behavioral Health  Medicaid Services,  and Senior                                                                    
and Disabilities  Medicaid Services] as had  occurred in the                                                                    
past.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
3:45:41 PM                                                                                                                    
AT EASE                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
3:46:20 PM                                                                                                                    
RECONVENED                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilson MAINTAINED her OBJECTION.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Tilton provided  wrap up  on the  amendment.                                                                    
She recalled  that Mr. Teal  had testified to  the committee                                                                    
that the  department could make  reductions on its  own. She                                                                    
noted the  department had also  told the committee  it could                                                                    
withstand the  cut. She did  not want to communicate  to the                                                                    
department  that   the  legislature  did  not   believe  its                                                                    
information was accurate.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
A roll call vote was taken on the motion.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
IN FAVOR: Sullivan-Leonard, Tilton, Carpenter, Merrick                                                                          
OPPOSED: Josephson,  Johnston, Knopp, LeBon,  Ortiz, Wilson,                                                                    
Foster                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
The MOTION  to adopt Amendment  3 to Amendment HSS  B FAILED                                                                    
(4/7).                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
3:48:15 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative Tilton  addressed the original  Amendment HSS                                                                    
B that would  reduce Medicaid by $58 million  as proposed by                                                                    
the subcommittee chairs. She  was disappointed the committee                                                                    
would not  move forward with the  department's proposed cut.                                                                    
She reiterated her earlier statement  that Mr. Teal had told                                                                    
the committee the department would  have the ability to make                                                                    
the reduction  without the legislature's  authorization. She                                                                    
supported the $58  million cut that she  believed was moving                                                                    
in the right direction.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Foster explained  that  the [subcommittee]  policy                                                                    
co-chairs  represented  urban  and  rural  Alaska.  He  felt                                                                    
confident the  proposed number was appropriate  and could be                                                                    
tolerated by his district. He supported the amendment.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Sullivan-Leonard  appreciated the  amendment                                                                    
sponsor's efforts  to reduce the  DHSS budget.  She remarked                                                                    
that the  department had  a two to  three-year plan  to make                                                                    
reductions of  hundreds of millions  of dollars.  She stated                                                                    
that  when a  department's  budget was  in  the billions  of                                                                    
dollars, it was necessary  to determine how reductions could                                                                    
be made.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Representative Josephson  thanked the amendment  sponsor for                                                                    
reaching  the compromise  amendment.  He  relayed there  had                                                                    
been  word earlier  in  the  day that  the  director of  the                                                                    
Health Care  Services Division had  stepped down,  which was                                                                    
giving him pause about  the administration's position moving                                                                    
forward. He  believed there were  some reforms  contained in                                                                    
the amendment that may work,  but he was concerned about the                                                                    
withholding of inflation  component for acuity-based nursing                                                                    
and the  timely filing  allowance. He appreciated  that much                                                                    
work had  gone into  the amendment and  that Medicaid  was a                                                                    
very expensive part of the budget.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Wilson shared  that she  had just  found out  that                                                                    
Margaret Brodie was no longer  with Medicaid Services within                                                                    
DHSS. She  stressed it would be  a huge loss for  the state.                                                                    
She  thanked Ms.  Brodie  for her  excellent  work during  a                                                                    
difficult time.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilson WITHDREW her OBJECTION.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
There  being  NO  further OBJECTION,  Amendment  HSS  B  was                                                                    
ADOPTED.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
3:51:50 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Foster  reported his intention  to get  through the                                                                    
amendments during the current day.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Representative Tilton WITHDREW HSS C (copy on file).                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Tilton  MOVED to  ADOPT  Amendment  H HSS  1                                                                    
(copy on file):                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     Alaska Psychiatric Institute                                                                                               
     H HSS 1 - Remove Intent Language due pending                                                                               
     legislation                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     Remove the following intent language:                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     It  is   the  intent   of  the  legislature   that  the                                                                    
     Department of  Health and Social Services  abide by all                                                                    
     provisions  of  collective  bargaining  agreements  and                                                                    
     adhere to the  laws of the State  Procurement. Code (AS                                                                    
     36.30.005-36.30.995)  in  the contracting  of  services                                                                    
     for the Alaska Psychiatric Institute.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilson OBJECTED for discussion.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Tilton  reviewed  the amendment  that  would                                                                    
remove  intent   language  added  during   the  subcommittee                                                                    
process.  She explained  there was  pending legislation  (HB                                                                    
86) that would speak to the issue.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Representative Josephson  opposed the amendment.  He thought                                                                    
the  intent language  was of  vital importance.  He reasoned                                                                    
that they  did not know  what was  going to happen  with the                                                                    
legislation   [mentioned  by   Representative  Tilton].   He                                                                    
detailed  that  a  number  of  House  members  were  working                                                                    
tirelessly  to  find  out  the  virtue  of  an  out-of-state                                                                    
company  taking   over  management   of  the   state's  only                                                                    
psychiatric   hospital   that   was  caring   for   Alaskans                                                                    
struggling  with  mental  health concerns.  He  thought  the                                                                    
investigation  should  be given  a  chance  to continue.  He                                                                    
referenced a recent joint hearing  on the topic and believed                                                                    
the   group  had   unearthed  some   concerns  relative   to                                                                    
procurement  (the   amendment  addressed   procurement).  He                                                                    
continued  that  the  group   had  worked  mightily  in  the                                                                    
interest  of Alaskans.  He considered  it was  possible that                                                                    
things   were  so   damaged  at   the   hospital  that   the                                                                    
administration's path  was the proper one.  He explained the                                                                    
intent  language merely  stated that  the law  needed to  be                                                                    
followed  and  it  highlighted  some  concerns  of  numerous                                                                    
members in the legislature.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
3:54:52 PM                                                                                                                    
AT EASE                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
3:58:39 PM                                                                                                                    
RECONVENED                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilson WITHDREW her OBJECTION.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Ortiz and Representative Josephson OBJECTED.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Representative Josephson noted he  had already spoken to his                                                                    
objection.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Tilton provided  wrap up  on the  amendment.                                                                    
She read from  the intent language [see  above]. She relayed                                                                    
HB 86  covered the topics  included in the  intent language.                                                                    
She elaborated that  the bill stated that  mental health was                                                                    
a public  trust that  should remain  rightfully the  duty of                                                                    
the  state  to exercise  care  over  mental health  when  it                                                                    
involved  involuntary admittance.  The  bill would  continue                                                                    
public management  of the state's  mental health  system and                                                                    
would ensure the interests of  the patient were paramount in                                                                    
a   public  process.   She  believed   departments  followed                                                                    
procurement  law. She  asked to  remove the  intent language                                                                    
from the budget.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
A roll call vote was taken on the motion.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
IN  FAVOR:  Tilton, Carpenter,  Sullivan-Leonard,  Johnston,                                                                    
LeBon, Knopp, Wilson                                                                                                            
OPPOSED: Josephson, Merrick, Ortiz, Foster                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
The MOTION PASSED (7/4). There  being NO  further OBJECTION,                                                                    
Amendment HSS 1 was ADOPTED.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
4:01:46 PM                                                                                                                    
AT EASE                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
4:02:11 PM                                                                                                                    
RECONVENED                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Tilton  MOVED to  ADOPT  Amendment  H HSS  2                                                                    
(copy on file):                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     Juvenile Justice                                                                                                           
     Nome Youth Facility                                                                                                        
     H HSS  2 - Eliminate  Youth Detention and  Treatment in                                                                    
     Nome Youth Facility                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     The Division  of Juvenile Justice will  eliminate Youth                                                                    
     Detention and Treatment in the  Nome Youth Facility and                                                                    
     provide   escorted   transportation  to   a   detention                                                                    
     facility  in  Anchorage,   Bethel,  or  Fairbanks.  The                                                                    
     facility  has  historically   been  underutilized  with                                                                    
     youth  detained   64  times   in  FY2018.   This  would                                                                    
     eliminate  16 full-time  and  two part-time  positions.                                                                    
     The  facility  would   continue  to  provide  probation                                                                    
     services  and retain  two permanent  full-time and  one                                                                    
     temporary position.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     1004 Gen Fund (UGF) -2,000.0                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilson OBJECTED.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Tilton  reviewed  the amendment  that  would                                                                    
eliminate  detention   and  treatment  in  the   Nome  Youth                                                                    
Facility.  She  detailed  that the  facility  would  provide                                                                    
escorted  transportation  to  the  detention  facilities  in                                                                    
Anchorage, Bethel, and Fairbanks.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilson spoke to her  opposition. She was frustrated                                                                    
by the situation  that had been before the  committee in the                                                                    
past. She believed  there were options, but  for some reason                                                                    
the  department had  not utilized  them. She  furthered that                                                                    
being in detention  could be the result of a  minor to major                                                                    
crime, but she  was opposed to taking youth  away from their                                                                    
home [town]  and putting them  in a position where  they had                                                                    
potential to learn  more bad behavior. She did  not know how                                                                    
to better  get the point  to the department that  there were                                                                    
better options available. She wanted  to be able to vote for                                                                    
the  amendment  because  she did  not  believe  funding  the                                                                    
facility was  utilizing the funds  in the best way,  but she                                                                    
also  did not  agree with  sending  youth out  of Nome.  She                                                                    
believed sending youth out of  Nome to Anchorage was akin to                                                                    
sending  adult   prisoner's  out   of  state.   She  thought                                                                    
providing  services within  the community  and family  would                                                                    
mean  youth  would   be  more  likely  to   learn  from  the                                                                    
experience. She did not know  whether intent language should                                                                    
be  included,  but  she  hoped  to  have  a  plan  from  the                                                                    
department the  following year  on how  to better  serve the                                                                    
youth more efficiently and cost-effectively.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair  Johnston noted  she  had  some good  discussions                                                                    
with the  department and commissioner  about the  topic. She                                                                    
reported   the   department    would   be   looking   rather                                                                    
aggressively  at how  best to  approach  the situation.  She                                                                    
agreed   there   were   other   alternatives   -   including                                                                    
partnerships  that  could  be developed  -  without  sending                                                                    
youth to  Anchorage or  Fairbanks where  they could  pick up                                                                    
undesirable habits.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
4:05:07 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative Sullivan-Leonard shared that  in the past she                                                                    
had  served  on  the  board  of  juvenile  justice  advisory                                                                    
commission  within DHSS.  She reported  that the  Nome Youth                                                                    
Facility  had  been  discussed   many  times.  Some  of  the                                                                    
discussion in  the past  was there were  fewer youth  in the                                                                    
facility because  they were doing  such a good job  in Nome.                                                                    
She believed  it had been  part of the recent  discussion as                                                                    
well.  She  shared  that the  board  had  toured  facilities                                                                    
across  the  state, and  she  had  been surprised  how  many                                                                    
family  members were  spread  between Fairbanks,  Anchorage,                                                                    
Nome,  and other  areas.  She had  learned  there were  many                                                                    
support families  nearby. She  supported the  amendment. She                                                                    
thought   that  youth   could  be   moved  to   other  areas                                                                    
efficiently. She thought the facility  in Nome could be used                                                                    
for  something else  like a  behavioral or  treatment center                                                                    
for the community.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Foster opposed the amendment.  He was not asking to                                                                    
increase funds, but was requesting  to flat fund the item at                                                                    
the FY 19  level. He detailed that the  amendment would shut                                                                    
down the  Nome Youth  Facility and cut  $2 million  from the                                                                    
budget. He reported that in the  past couple of years he had                                                                    
looked at another scenario that  involved the closure of the                                                                    
Mat-Su Youth Facility.  He reasoned it would  be much easier                                                                    
to  drive Mat-Su  youth  to a  facility  like McLaughlin  in                                                                    
Anchorage. He  elaborated that the  youth would be  close to                                                                    
their families  and the court  of jurisdiction.  The closure                                                                    
of the Nome facility meant youths  would have to be flown to                                                                    
McLaughlin; the youths would be  far away from their support                                                                    
groups. For  the same reason that  he did not want  to close                                                                    
Wildwood  or  send 500  inmates  out  of  state he  did  not                                                                    
support sending Nome  youth to other areas in  the state. He                                                                    
did not  support the  closure of the  Nome facility.  He had                                                                    
not pursued  the closure of  the Mat-Su facility  because he                                                                    
felt  both  facilities   were  important  to  rehabilitating                                                                    
youth.   He   pointed   out   that   the   legislature   and                                                                    
administration had  both made public  safety a  priority. He                                                                    
reasoned   closing    the   facility   would    weaken   the                                                                    
legislature's arguments it had prioritized public safety.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Representative Carpenter  supported the amendment.  He spoke                                                                    
to  the   importance  of  mentorship  for   youth  who  were                                                                    
struggling with  many different issues  - issues  he thought                                                                    
probably primarily  stemmed problems  in their  families. He                                                                    
understood that  due to the  distance it would  be difficult                                                                    
for children  to be moved  from Nome to other  locations. He                                                                    
stated  there were  16 full-time  and 2  part-time positions                                                                    
dedicated  to 64  youth in  the past  year at  a cost  of $2                                                                    
million. He  understood that things  were more  expensive in                                                                    
rural  areas.  He did  not  know  whether there  were  other                                                                    
facilities to  provide care for  individuals in  distress in                                                                    
Nome. He  thought the  expenditure was  irresponsible fiscal                                                                    
policy.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
4:10:22 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilson MAINTAINED her OBJECTION.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Tilton provided  wrap up  on the  amendment.                                                                    
She agreed  it was  difficult when  thinking about  youth in                                                                    
the situation.  She believed sometimes  punishment prevented                                                                    
youths  from being  offenders  in the  future.  The idea  of                                                                    
closing the facility did not  make her happy but she thought                                                                    
it  was  necessary to  look  at  the budget  situation.  She                                                                    
pointed   out    the   facility   had    historically   been                                                                    
underutilized. She relayed  that in 2018, 64  youth had been                                                                    
detained at  a cost of  $2 million. She understood  the look                                                                    
the  co-chair  had  taken at  closing  the  Mat-Su  facility                                                                    
because  it   was  on  the   road  system  and   would  make                                                                    
transportation to  and from  Anchorage easier;  however, the                                                                    
closure  would be  an  increase  in the  budget  due to  the                                                                    
number of  employees it would  take. She explained  that the                                                                    
Mat-Su facility was over capacity;  the number of additional                                                                    
employees  that would  be needed  at  McLaughlin would  cost                                                                    
more.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
A roll call vote was taken on the motion.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
IN FAVOR: Carpenter, Merrick, Sullivan-Leonard, Tilton                                                                          
OPPOSED: Josephson,  Johnston, Knopp, LeBon,  Ortiz, Wilson,                                                                    
Foster                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
The MOTION to adopt Amendment H HSS 2 FAILED (4/7).                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
4:13:30 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Foster  noted that Amendment  H HSS 3 would  not be                                                                    
offered (copy on file).                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Tilton  MOVED to  ADOPT  Amendment  H HSS  4                                                                    
(copy on file):                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     Public Assistance                                                                                                          
     General Relief Assistance                                                                                                  
     H HSS 4 - Reduce General Relief Assistance Payment                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     This  amendment  caps  the  General  Relief  Assistance                                                                    
     burial   payment    to   $1000.00    per   application.                                                                    
     Previously, there  was not  a cap  on this  benefit. In                                                                    
    FY18, there were 294 applications for this program.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     1004 Gen Fund (UGF) -600.0                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilson OBJECTED for discussion.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Representative Tilton reviewed the  amendment that would cap                                                                    
the General  Relief Burial Assistance Program  to $1,000 per                                                                    
applicant.  She explained  there previously  had not  been a                                                                    
cap  on   the  benefit.  In   FY  18  there  had   been  294                                                                    
applications for the program, which  was down from 440 in FY                                                                    
17 (a decrease of over 33 percent).                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Representative   Josephson  stated   the  issue   was  about                                                                    
exceptionally poor  people who  had died.  He asked  what it                                                                    
cost to bury a person.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Tilton answered  that she  did not  have the                                                                    
number. The  amendment would cap the  program, not eliminate                                                                    
it.                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Representative  LeBon  asked about  the  average  cost of  a                                                                    
burial.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Tilton answered  that  an average  cremation                                                                    
was about $1,500.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
4:15:43 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative Knopp  reported that  he had paid  $1,000 for                                                                    
the burial of  a homeless person a couple of  years back. He                                                                    
detailed the  cost could  range from  $1,000 to  $10,000. He                                                                    
had found  the mortuaries and funeral  homes were negotiable                                                                    
in the  types of services  offered. He speculated  there was                                                                    
probably no limit to what a person could spend.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Representative LeBon MOVED to ADOPT  Amendment 1 to HSS 4 to                                                                    
increase the cap to $1,500.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilson OBJECTED for discussion.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Representative Sullivan-Leonard  asked for  verification the                                                                    
motion was to increase the cap to $1,500.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Representative  LeBon replied  he  was moving  to raise  the                                                                    
amount to $1,500 based on the information.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Ortiz asked for the  average amount of assistance                                                                    
given per application.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Tilton replied  that  she did  not have  the                                                                    
information  on hand.  The  number  in FY  18  had been  294                                                                    
applicants  with no  cap. She  stated a  burial could  range                                                                    
from simple to more elaborate.  She added that the number of                                                                    
applicants had decreased from 440 in FY 17.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
4:18:35 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair  Johnston clarified  that  because  there was  no                                                                    
cap,  the  menu  of  free   burial  services  had  expanded;                                                                    
therefore, the  department felt a  cap was  necessary. There                                                                    
were  opportunities for  providing  less expensive  services                                                                    
for  individuals who  may need  them versus  individuals who                                                                    
may have insurance to carry  the full cost. The industry had                                                                    
a range of prices and the cap allowed some structure.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair   Wilson   asked   if    the   department   had   a                                                                    
recommendation for the cap.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Johnston replied $1,000.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilson noted she knew  nothing about the issue. She                                                                    
considered who was  responsible for a burial  if someone was                                                                    
homeless and  had no  family. She did  not know  whether the                                                                    
state had some type of  responsibility. She surmised that if                                                                    
the  department thought  $1,000  was the  right amount,  she                                                                    
would go with that amount.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Representative LeBon found both  numbers [$1,000 and $1,500]                                                                    
to be very  low. He thought if the average  cost was $1,500,                                                                    
it should probably  be the cap. He pointed out  that in time                                                                    
the  figure  would  have  to   be  increased.  He  suggested                                                                    
starting at $1,500 to get a few years' time out of it.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilson MAINTAINED her OBJECTION.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
4:21:08 PM                                                                                                                    
AT EASE                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
4:25:05 PM                                                                                                                    
RECONVENED                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Representative LeBon replied that  based on an increase from                                                                    
a cap  of $1,000 to $1,500  an adjustment to the  UGF number                                                                    
was needed. He asked to  reduce the UGF number from $600,000                                                                    
to $463,000.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Foster  asked  Representative  LeBon  to  withdraw                                                                    
Amendment 1 and offer Amendment 2 for clarification.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Representative Knopp replied that  thought the cap needed to                                                                    
remain [Amendment 1 was not withdrawn].                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Wilson WITHDREW  her OBJECTION  to Amendment  1 to                                                                    
Amendment  H  HSS  4.  There  being  NO  further  OBJECTION,                                                                    
Amendment 1 to HSS 4 was ADOPTED.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair   Foster  asked   Representative   LeBon  to   move                                                                    
Amendment 2.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative LeBon  explained that Amendment 2  would line                                                                    
up the  cap number  with the number  of applications  in the                                                                    
prior fiscal  year. He detailed  that if every  service cost                                                                    
was $1,500  and there  were approximately  294 applications,                                                                    
the fiscal note would be $463,000 [UGF].                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Wilson  noted  that  the amendment  needed  to  be                                                                    
offered. She MOVED  to ADOPT Amendment 2 to  Amendment H HSS                                                                    
4.  The amendment  would delete  the $600,000  reduction and                                                                    
replace it with a reduction of $463,000 UGF.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
4:26:55 PM                                                                                                                    
AT EASE                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
4:27:41 PM                                                                                                                    
RECONVENED                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Wilson restated  her  motion. She  MOVED to  ADOPT                                                                    
Amendment  2  to Amendment  H  HSS  4. The  amendment  would                                                                    
delete  the  $600,000  reduction   and  replace  it  with  a                                                                    
reduction  of  $453,000  UGF  to   reflect  the  $1,500  cap                                                                    
included in Amendment 1.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Tilton  OBJECTED.  She believed  the  figure                                                                    
provided  by Representative  LeBon was  $463,000 instead  of                                                                    
$453,000.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Wilson WITHDREW  Amendment 2.  She MOVED  to ADOPT                                                                    
Amendment  3  to Amendment  H  HSS  4. The  amendment  would                                                                    
delete  the  $600,000  reduction   and  replace  it  with  a                                                                    
reduction  of  $463,000  UGF  to   reflect  the  $1,500  cap                                                                    
included in Amendment 1.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
There being NO  OBJECTION, Amendment 3 to Amendment  H HSS 4                                                                    
was ADOPTED.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilson WITHDREW her OBJECTION  to Amendment H HSS 4                                                                    
as AMENDED.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
There  being NO  further OBJECTION,  Amendment H  HSS 4  was                                                                    
ADOPTED as AMENDED.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
4:29:38 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Josephson MOVED  to  ADOPT  Amendment HSS  5                                                                    
(copy on file):                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     Public Health Nursing                                                                                                      
     H HSS 5 - Increase Public Health Nursing Services                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     Public Health Nursing has been  the target of many cuts                                                                    
     over the  past few years taking  a hit of more  than $4                                                                    
     million  from FY16  to FY19.  This increment  will help                                                                    
     the Public Health  Nursing allocation increase services                                                                    
     to  meet  increasing  incidence of  flu  and  STDS  and                                                                    
     decreased immunization rates.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
     1004 Gen Fund (UGF) 1,000.0                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilson OBJECTED for discussion.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Representative Josephson  reviewed the amendment.  He shared                                                                    
that he had  attended about four town hall  meetings (one or                                                                    
two  in Juneau,  two in  Anchorage, and  one in  Bethel). He                                                                    
discussed that  typically the legislature  heard generalized                                                                    
commentary about  need or  want - to  cut the  budget, raise                                                                    
the budget,  protect schools, etcetera. He  remarked that it                                                                    
was  all important.  He  highlighted  public testimony  from                                                                    
March 25 [2019] Jane Andreen,  a Juneau nurse who provided a                                                                    
specific  case about  the need  to grow  public nursing.  He                                                                    
reported the amendment was his  only amendment to add funds.                                                                    
He noted that  currently public health nursing  had fees set                                                                    
on  a sliding  scale based  on  family income  and size.  He                                                                    
stated  that no  one was  ever refused;  however, there  had                                                                    
been a cut  of 40 positions since  FY 16 in the  range of $5                                                                    
million. He  elaborated that the  hope had been to  fill the                                                                    
cut with DGF funds, but that had not materialized.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Josephson provided  the figures  reported by                                                                    
Ms. Andreen during public testimony:  27 percent of existing                                                                    
public health  centers had  been closed,  staff was  down 21                                                                    
percent, flu cases rose 1,955  to 6,515 in Alaska, there had                                                                    
been a reduction in immunizations  from 33,000 to 16,000. He                                                                    
believed  Alaska  was  the worst  state  for  gonorrhea  and                                                                    
syphilis. He thought Ms. Andreen  had made an air-tight case                                                                    
for  a  funding increment.  He  felt  that when  a  concrete                                                                    
example was proposed,  it would be negligent for  him to not                                                                    
bring  it before  the whole  committee. He  highlighted that                                                                    
health was a constitutional  obligation. The amendment would                                                                    
spend  an extra  $1  million  on the  public  health of  the                                                                    
Alaskan people.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Representative Sullivan-Leonard  asked if  there had  been a                                                                    
discussion  about the  public health  nursing budget  in the                                                                    
HSS  subcommittee. She  asked if  the particular  allocation                                                                    
had been reduced.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Representative Josephson  replied that  he did not  know. He                                                                    
believed  it   was  a  status   quo  budget.  He   noted  an                                                                    
affirmative response from  Vice-Chair Johnston. He explained                                                                    
that Ms. Andreen had testified  about previous cuts and what                                                                    
she viewed as the impact of those cuts.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
4:33:21 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Sullivan-Leonard  asked Vice-Chair  Johnston                                                                    
for history on public health nursing.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair  Johnston replied  that Representative  Josephson                                                                    
had accurately  listed the  cuts that had  been made  to the                                                                    
division  from  FY 14  to  FY  19.  She explained  that  the                                                                    
subcommittee had not  accepted a proposed cut  of $2 million                                                                    
and  had  thus maintained  status  quo.  She recognized  the                                                                    
importance of public health nursing  and reported great work                                                                    
had been done  to find efficiencies. She  detailed that much                                                                    
of  public health  nursing involved  education -  nurses had                                                                    
been able  to reach  out through  education other  than only                                                                    
doing  personal visits.  She acknowledged  that centers  had                                                                    
been closed, which she recognized  was not ideal. She stated                                                                    
public  health  nursing was  doing  a  heroic job  providing                                                                    
services,  which was  the reason  the  subcommittee had  not                                                                    
proposed any additional cuts.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Tilton  shared that  in  FY  18 actuals  the                                                                    
public health  budget had been $26,504,300  and was proposed                                                                    
to  increase  to $29,953,900  in  FY  20  - an  increase  of                                                                    
$3,449,600, which  was $2,389,500  above the  consumer price                                                                    
index (CPI) of 4 percent.  She explained that even if public                                                                    
health nursing was reduced, it  would be maintained at FY 18                                                                    
levels adjusted for CPI.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
4:35:39 PM                                                                                                                    
AT EASE                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
4:36:29 PM                                                                                                                    
RECONVENED                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Johnston  read the  decrements to  the department                                                                    
as follows:  $1.4 million  and $0.4 million  in FY  16; $3.7                                                                    
million in FY 17; and over  $1.1 million in FY 18. There had                                                                    
been an  increment in  FY 18  for the  amount that  had been                                                                    
removed for over $1.1 million;  the funds had been temporary                                                                    
for a  three-year plan.  There had  been an  increment again                                                                    
for the three-year  plan for $757,000 in FY  19 and $379,000                                                                    
in  FY 20.  She  noted  a $2  million  [reduction] had  been                                                                    
proposed in the FY 20 budget.  The total base change from FY                                                                    
16 to  FY 19  was $4.8  million. She  explained that  if the                                                                    
legislature  accepted the  suggested  $2 million  decrement,                                                                    
the total reduction since FY 16 would be $6.8 million.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Tilton added  that  the  Division of  Public                                                                    
Health and  Nursing had  come before  the committee  and had                                                                    
testified  it was  confident the  budget  could be  reduced,                                                                    
while  maintaining   needed  services.  She   reported  that                                                                    
consolidating  the  regions   would  reduce  the  division's                                                                    
administrative  cost by  25 percent.  She detailed  that the                                                                    
division could  reduce its leasing  facilities and  cost and                                                                    
could  contract with  community  centers.  The division  was                                                                    
looking  at developing  innovative  service delivery  models                                                                    
with different partners.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Ortiz  supported the amendment. He  reported that                                                                    
the island community of Wrangell  had lost its public health                                                                    
nurse  and center  due  to  the cuts.  He  pointed out  that                                                                    
residents could not drive to access services elsewhere.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilson MAINTAINED her OBJECTION.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Representative Josephson provided wrap  up. He addressed the                                                                    
consolidation and  efficiencies discussed  by Representative                                                                    
Tilton and  noted the  state had  a top-down  government. He                                                                    
countered  that   public  health   nurses  were   telling  a                                                                    
different story. He stated that  no one had controverted the                                                                    
statistics  provided. For  example, gonorrhea  had increased                                                                    
31  percent between  2015  and 2017.  He  stressed that  the                                                                    
state was not  going in the right  direction on fundamental,                                                                    
basic healthcare in Alaska. He  believed the state would pay                                                                    
for  it in  other ways.  He  underscored that  the data  was                                                                    
defensible.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
A roll call vote was taken on the motion.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
IN FAVOR: Josephson, Ortiz, Foster                                                                                              
OPPOSED:   Johnston,   LeBon,   Merrick,   Sullivan-Leonard,                                                                    
Tilton, Carpenter, Knopp, Wilson                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
The MOTION to adopt Amendment H HSS 5 FAILED (3/8).                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Tilton  MOVED to  ADOPT  Amendment  H HSS  6                                                                    
(copy on file):                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     Public Health Nursing                                                                                                      
     H HSS 6 - Reduce Public Health Nursing                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     Reduce Public Health Nursing                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     1003 GF/Match (UGF) -2,000.0                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilson OBJECTED for discussion.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Tilton  reviewed  the amendment  that  would                                                                    
reduce  public health  nursing by  $2 million.  She reported                                                                    
the division  had told  the committee  it was  confident the                                                                    
reduction  could  be  made   through  the  consolidation  of                                                                    
regions. She  noted it was an  administrative reduction, not                                                                    
a  reduction to  services. She  detailed the  division could                                                                    
reduce  leasing  and  contract  with  community  centers  to                                                                    
develop  innovative service  delivery models  with different                                                                    
partners. She  added that within  DHSS, 163 months  had been                                                                    
allocated  for  public  health  nurse  positions  that  were                                                                    
vacant, which totaled $1.6 million UGF-only.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
4:42:33 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair  Johnston   relayed  the  subcommittee   had  not                                                                    
accepted the  [$2 million] decrement due  to decrements made                                                                    
over the years. She did not support the amendment.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilson MAINTAINED her OBJECTION.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
A roll call vote was taken on the motion.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
IN FAVOR: Sullivan-Leonard, Tilton, Carpenter                                                                                   
OPPOSED: Knopp, LeBon,  Merrick, Ortiz, Josephson, Johnston,                                                                    
Wilson, Foster                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
The MOTION to adopt Amendment H HSS 6 FAILED (3/8).                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
4:43:40 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Tilton  MOVED to  ADOPT  Amendment  H HSS  7                                                                    
(copy on file):                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     Human Services Community Matching Grant                                                                                    
     H HSS 7 - Eliminate Human Services Community Matching                                                                      
     Grants                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     Eliminate Human Services Community Matching Grants                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     1004 Gen Fund (UGF) -1.387.0                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Representative Josephson and Co-Chair Wilson OBJECTED.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Tilton  reviewed  the amendment  that  would                                                                    
eliminate $1.4 million in  human services community matching                                                                    
grants outlined  in AS 29.60.600. She  reported that funding                                                                    
the  grant  annually  was   not  statutorily  required.  She                                                                    
explained  the statute  outlined the  requirements if  funds                                                                    
were appropriated. She  remarked that in the  past, when the                                                                    
state had money, numerous programs  had been created without                                                                    
thinking about the ability to  fund the items in the future.                                                                    
She emphasized the importance  of prioritizing spending. She                                                                    
encouraged grant recipients to look for outside funding.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Representative  LeBon   spoke  against  the   amendment.  He                                                                    
relayed the  human services matching grant  program had been                                                                    
in  place since  1992.  The program  required  a 30  percent                                                                    
matching  participation  by   the  community  receiving  the                                                                    
grant. He reported  that Fairbanks was happy  to provide its                                                                    
30  percent match.  He elaborated  that grant  recipients in                                                                    
Fairbanks included  the Fairbanks Community Food  Bank; Love                                                                    
Inc,  provided  emergency  support to  clients;  North  Star                                                                    
Council  on  Aging  supported the  senior  Meals  on  Wheels                                                                    
program; and  the Interior Community Health  Center provided                                                                    
basic   primary   healthcare   services   for   low   income                                                                    
individuals.  He  reported  the   program  was  working  and                                                                    
deserved support.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Sullivan-Leonard  supported  the  amendment.                                                                    
She  had  seen  good  work provided  by  the  Mat-Su  Health                                                                    
Foundation and  other community groups such  as chambers and                                                                    
rotary programs rising  to help those in  need including the                                                                    
local food bank  and Meals on Wheels  program. She supported                                                                    
the reduction,  which she believed  was needed.  She thought                                                                    
it was  important to move  more towards private  entities to                                                                    
pick up where the state had been in the past.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Representative Josephson  opposed the amendment.  He thought                                                                    
the food banks were doing  well due to state matching funds.                                                                    
Additionally, he  did not believe  it was viable to  ask the                                                                    
private sector to  pick up the load for  myriad items unless                                                                    
there was  a tracking  system to make  sure it  happened. He                                                                    
had received  an email earlier  in the  day from a  woman in                                                                    
Ketchikan working for Women in  Safe Homes (WISH). The woman                                                                    
had reported a  domestic violence clinic aided  by the grant                                                                    
had saved a  woman's life. He elaborated that  the woman had                                                                    
been provided  emergency transportation  utilizing community                                                                    
initiative  matching grants.  He  supported maintaining  the                                                                    
grant.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilson MAINTAINED her OBJECTION.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Tilton provided  wrap  up. She  acknowledged                                                                    
that all programs were good  to someone. She highlighted the                                                                    
state's budgetary  challenges and  was concerned  about what                                                                    
would happen  when the  state was  not available  to provide                                                                    
the funds.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
A roll call vote was taken on the motion.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
IN  FAVOR:  Merrick,  Sullivan-Leonard,  Tilton,  Carpenter,                                                                    
Wilson                                                                                                                          
OPPOSED: LeBon, Ortiz, Josephson, Johnston, Knopp, Foster                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
The MOTION to adopt Amendment H HSS 7 FAILED (5/6).                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
4:49:54 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Tilton  MOVED to  ADOPT  Amendment  H HSS  8                                                                    
(copy on file):                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     Community Initiative Matching Grants (non-statutory                                                                        
     grants)                                                                                                                    
     H HSS  8 - Eliminate Community Initiative Matching                                                                         
     Grants                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     Eliminate Community Initiative Matching Grants                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     1004 Gen Fund (UGF) -861.0                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilson OBJECTED for discussion.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Tilton reviewed  the amendment  that applied                                                                    
to  the  rural piece  of  the  grants. The  amendment  would                                                                    
eliminate  funding  for  the community  initiative  matching                                                                    
grants.  She  reported  the   funding  was  not  statutorily                                                                    
required. She elaborated that the  funds could be eliminated                                                                    
while keeping the program in place.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilson asked  if the program had the  same match as                                                                    
the  previous  program  discussed by  the  committee  [human                                                                    
services community matching grants].                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Representative Tilton did  not believe so. She  did not have                                                                    
the information on hand.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Ortiz  asked if the  sponsor had said it  was the                                                                    
rural side of the matching grant program.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Tilton  answered  that  the  human  services                                                                    
community  matching  grant  was  the  urban  grant  and  the                                                                    
community   initiative   matching   grant  was   the   rural                                                                    
counterpart.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative LeBon asked if  there was a match requirement                                                                    
for a rural community to access the funds.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
4:51:49 PM                                                                                                                    
AT EASE                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
4:56:12 PM                                                                                                                    
RECONVENED                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Tilton   reported  she  had   been  provided                                                                    
information showing there was no match requirement.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilson WITHDREW her OBJECTION.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Ortiz OBJECTED.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
A roll call vote was taken on the motion.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
IN  FAVOR:  Merrick,  Sullivan-Leonard,  Tilton,  Carpenter,                                                                    
Wilson                                                                                                                          
OPPOSED: Ortiz, Josephson, Johnston, Knopp, LeBon, Foster                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
The MOTION to adopt Amendment H HSS 8 FAILED (5/6).                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
4:57:32 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Foster  asked when  members  wanted  to break  for                                                                    
dinner.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Wilson  requested  to   finish  the  remainder  of                                                                    
Department  of Health  and Social  Services before  a dinner                                                                    
break.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Representative Knopp thought that would take some time.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Foster thought it could  take a while. He suggested                                                                    
taking a break in an hour.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
4:59:11 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Johnston MOVED  to ADOPT Amendment H  HSS 9 (copy                                                                    
on file):                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     Medicaid Services                                                                                                          
     H HSS 9 - Intent Language                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     Wordage:                                                                                                                   
     It  is   the  intent   of  the  legislature   that  the                                                                    
     department   work  with   the  statewide   professional                                                                    
     hospital   association   to  develop   strategies   and                                                                    
     methodologies for implementation  of hospital diagnosis                                                                    
     related groups,  acuity-based skilled  nursing facility                                                                    
     rates,  rate reductions,  and timely  filing provisions                                                                    
     to mitigate unintended consequences.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     The department shall  submit quarterly progress reports                                                                    
     on  cost containment  efforts to  the co-chairs  of the                                                                    
     House   and   Senate   Finance   Committees   and   the                                                                    
     Legislative Finance Division.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
     Explanation:                                                                                                               
     This  amendment  gives  the  department  direction  and                                                                    
     expectations  for   cost  containment   strategies  and                                                                    
     requires quarterly updates.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Representative Josephson OBJECTED for discussion.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Johnston explained the  intent language would let                                                                    
the  department   know  the   legislature  would   like  the                                                                    
providers via  the state hospital  association to be  at the                                                                    
table helping to inform the  department on implementation of                                                                    
the Medicaid intent  language. The other part  of the intent                                                                    
language included progress  reporting requirements to inform                                                                    
the  legislature   whether  the  department   was  achieving                                                                    
savings or if a supplemental should be anticipated.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Representative Josephson asked if  the amendment would allow                                                                    
the statewide  professional hospital  association to  say it                                                                    
could  not  make   the  reduction  due  to   too  many  rate                                                                    
reductions.  He surmised  the association  would be  free to                                                                    
speak its  piece with  regards to reforms.  He asked  if his                                                                    
statements were accurate.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Johnston  replied it  was partially  correct. She                                                                    
explained  the issue  was more  that  legislators knew  cuts                                                                    
needed to  be made. The  association had some ideas  to save                                                                    
money. The  intent language would  bring the  association to                                                                    
the table  to work  with all parties  and determine  if cost                                                                    
savings could be made.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Sullivan-Leonard  understood  the  amendment                                                                    
pertained  to   Alaska  State  Hospital  and   Nursing  Home                                                                    
Association  (ASHNHA). She  thought the  entity was  already                                                                    
part  of  the  discussion.   She  wondered  why  the  intent                                                                    
language  was   necessary.  She  thought  it   would  set  a                                                                    
precedent where  association groups would be  an active part                                                                    
of the division as a mandate.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair  Johnston  replied  the intent  language  was  in                                                                    
response to  poor communication between health  services and                                                                    
the department. She explained the  parties could do whatever                                                                    
they   wanted   with   the  communication.   The   amendment                                                                    
encouraged  the  department  to bring  healthcare  providers                                                                    
into the  discussion to see  if there were  efficiencies. At                                                                    
the end of  the day the department could do  what it wanted,                                                                    
but the intent  language suggested there could  be some cost                                                                    
savings by bringing the providers  to the table or including                                                                    
them in conversations.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
5:02:09 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Sullivan-Leonard  felt  there  were  already                                                                    
ongoing  discussions  between  the  department  and  various                                                                    
hospitals  across the  state.  She did  not  believe it  was                                                                    
necessary.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Josephson  supported   the  intent  language                                                                    
because it  was balanced. He  detailed that on the  one hand                                                                    
it  talked about  being mindful  for the  state to  mitigate                                                                    
unintended consequences  to providers, on the  other hand it                                                                    
talked about the need for cost containment.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Representative    Tilton    considered    the    amendment's                                                                    
requirement for the department  to submit quarterly progress                                                                    
reports.  She agreed  reporting  was needed,  but she  noted                                                                    
costs  that came  with producing  reports.  She wondered  if                                                                    
quarterly reporting was the right number.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair  Johnston cited  separate legislation  - SB  74 -                                                                    
and explained  it was her understanding  quarterly reporting                                                                    
had  been  used in  that  bill.  She pointed  out  quarterly                                                                    
figures  provided trend  lines.  She reasoned  it should  be                                                                    
fairly easy to query if data was available.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Representative Knopp  spoke in support of  the amendment. He                                                                    
thought  it   seemed  appropriate  with  the   expansion  of                                                                    
Medicaid and  the Affordable Care Act  hospitals and skilled                                                                    
nursing  homes had  become  more reliant  on  "that type  of                                                                    
revenue source." He elaborated  that although the department                                                                    
administered  healthcare,  it  was not  necessarily  in  the                                                                    
healthcare  business. He  was not  sure  the department  was                                                                    
completely aware of the consequences  or changes it made. He                                                                    
believed consulting with providers was a good idea.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
5:04:14 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Carpenter  asked  if the  amendment  was  an                                                                    
attempt to improve organizational processes.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Johnston replied in the affirmative.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Carpenter  asked  if the  amendment  sponsor                                                                    
would be open to an  amendment that focused the department's                                                                    
attention  on a  way  to think  through process  improvement                                                                    
rather  than pulling  more people  into a  group ad  hoc. He                                                                    
argued  there  were  existing business  models  for  process                                                                    
improvement that  may or may  not be being used  at present.                                                                    
He  reasoned  if  the   legislature  directed  a  particular                                                                    
process improvement  model it could force  the department to                                                                    
do its process improvement.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Johnston appreciated the  intent but thought that                                                                    
approach  [suggested  by   Representative  Carpenter]  would                                                                    
micromanage  the department.  She did  not want  to be  that                                                                    
prescriptive.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Josephson  WITHDREW  his  OBJECTION  to  the                                                                    
amendment.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
There  being NO  further OBJECTION,  Amendment H  HSS 9  was                                                                    
ADOPTED.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
5:06:05 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Knopp  MOVED to  ADOPT  Amendment  H HSS  10                                                                    
(copy on file):                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     Medicaid Services                                                                                                          
     H HSS 10 - Exclude long term care facilities from                                                                          
     Medicaid provider rate reductions                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     It is the intent of the legislature that long-term                                                                         
     care facilities are exempt from Medicaid provider rate                                                                     
     reductions.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     Explanation:                                                                                                               
     This amendment would exclude long term care (skilled                                                                       
     nursing) facilities from proposed Medicaid provider                                                                        
     rate reductions.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilson OBJECTED for discussion.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Knopp  reviewed  the  amendment  that  would                                                                    
include intent language to  exempt long-term care facilities                                                                    
from the  Medicaid provider rate  reductions - at  least for                                                                    
the current  budget cycle. He explained  that some long-term                                                                    
skilled  nursing  facilities  were  very  dependent  on  the                                                                    
Medicaid system.   He reported the following  figures from a                                                                    
study  provided by  ASHNA: Wildflower  Court was  91 percent                                                                    
dependent;  Petersburg   Medical  Center  was   100  percent                                                                    
dependent;   Heritage  Place   was  85   percent  dependent;                                                                    
Wrangell Medical Center was 99  percent dependent; and South                                                                    
Penn Hospital  was 93 percent  dependent. Any  reductions to                                                                    
the  services would  put the  entities out  of business.  He                                                                    
requested no  changes made to  Medicaid for  skilled nursing                                                                    
facilities.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
5:07:39 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilson asked for clarification.  She noted that the                                                                    
wordage provided a suggestion to  the department, but it did                                                                    
not  prevent the  department from  excluding long-term  care                                                                    
facilities.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Representative Knopp  agreed. The amendment  included intent                                                                    
language.  He  had corresponded  with  ASHNA  and ASHNA  had                                                                    
corresponded  with   the  department.  The   department  had                                                                    
recommended  the intent  language  and  had communicated  it                                                                    
would more  than likely comply. He  explained the department                                                                    
recognized the need for the skilled nursing facilities.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Representative Carpenter thought there  was a fine line with                                                                    
the  intent language  being offered.  He considered  that if                                                                    
the  legislature  could  not prescribe  process  improvement                                                                    
methodology  to help  organizations improve  their thinking,                                                                    
he  thought telling  the department  it should  not consider                                                                    
rate  reductions  for a  particular  portion  would also  be                                                                    
prescriptive and micromanaging. He  did not understand where                                                                    
the  committee was  going  if it  was  picking and  choosing                                                                    
which  prescriptive  suggestion  moved forward.  He  thought                                                                    
they were micromanaging in one area and not another.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilson WITHDREW her OBJECTION.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Representative Carpenter OBJECTED.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
A roll call vote was taken on the motion.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
IN FAVOR: Ortiz, Josephson,  Johnston, Knopp, LeBon, Wilson,                                                                    
Foster                                                                                                                          
OPPOSED: Sullivan-Leonard, Tilton, Carpenter, Merrick                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
The MOTION  PASSED (7/4). There being  NO further OBJECTION,                                                                    
Amendment H HSS 10 was ADOPTED.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
5:10:36 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  LeBon  MOVED to  ADOPT  Amendment  H HSS  11                                                                    
(copy on file):                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     Medicaid Services                                                                                                          
     H HSS 11 - Medicaid - Hospital Rate Reduction                                                                              
     Exemption                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     Wordage:                                                                                                                   
     It  is   the  intent  of  the   legislature  to  exempt                                                                    
     hospitals  with the  dual federal  designation of  Sole                                                                    
     Community  Hospital   and  Rural  Referral   Center  in                                                                    
     addition  to  Critical  Access Hospitals  from  the  5%                                                                    
     Medicaid rate reduction.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
     Explanation:                                                                                                               
     Fairbanks  Memorial Hospital  (FMH)  is  the only  Sole                                                                    
     Community  Hospital  and  Rural  Referral  Center  dual                                                                    
     federally designated  hospital in the state  as well as                                                                    
     only one of 133 in  the country. Given its proximity to                                                                    
     other  communities,  FMH  is often  utilized  by  rural                                                                    
     areas since the nearest  like hospital is approximately                                                                    
     400 miles  away; the requirement  to be  considered SCH                                                                    
     is  only 35  miles. FMH  has a  high case-mix  and high                                                                    
     discharge volume.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilson OBJECTED for discussion.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Representative  LeBon  reviewed  the  amendment  that  would                                                                    
clarify the status of the  Fairbanks Memorial Hospital (FMH)                                                                    
as being  worthy of "critical access"  hospital designation.                                                                    
He explained FMH was the only  hospital in Alaska that had a                                                                    
designation  of  a  sole  community  hospital  and  a  rural                                                                    
referral center.  He detailed  there were  only 133  (out of                                                                    
4,700) of  such hospitals  in the  country. He  believed the                                                                    
designation was worthy  given the remote location  of FMH in                                                                    
relationship to the rest of the state.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
5:11:32 PM                                                                                                                    
AT EASE                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
5:21:22 PM                                                                                                                    
RECONVENED                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Representative   LeBon   reiterated   his   explanation   of                                                                    
Amendment H HSS 11. The  amendment would publicly the status                                                                    
of  FMH  as  the  only sole  community  hospital  and  rural                                                                    
referral  center  in  Alaska. The  amendment  clarified  the                                                                    
hospital  should  be  entitled   to  the  designation  of  a                                                                    
critical  access   hospital.  He  acknowledged   the  budget                                                                    
adopted by the committee  had retained the Medicaid funding;                                                                    
however, he wanted the information  in Amendment H HSS 11 to                                                                    
be  on  the  record  because   he  did  not  know  what  the                                                                    
department may do.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilson WITHDREW her OBJECTION.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
There being  NO further  OBJECTION, Amendment  H HSS  11 was                                                                    
ADOPTED.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
5:22:40 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Tilton MOVED  to  ADOPT Amendment  H HSS  12                                                                    
(copy on file):                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     Medicaid Services (continued)                                                                                              
     H  HSS  12  -  Remove   Department  level  $30  million                                                                    
     transfer   wordage    between   non-Medicaid   Services                                                                    
     appropriations                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     This transfer  authority is unnecessary and  is counter                                                                    
     to truth in budgeting.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilson OBJECTED for discussion.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Tilton  reviewed  the amendment  that  would                                                                    
remove  departmental   intent  language  that  was   at  the                                                                    
commissioner's  discretion to  transfer  up  to $30  million                                                                    
between  appropriation lines  within  the  DHSS budget.  She                                                                    
noted  there  was  a  caveat   that  the  Medicaid  Services                                                                    
appropriation could  not be removed.  The language  had been                                                                    
first incorporated in FY 14  as a temporary measure when the                                                                    
legislature had  made the first  reductions to  the Medicaid                                                                    
budget. She shared  that she had been staff  when the intent                                                                    
language came forward  and recalled it had  been intended as                                                                    
very temporary. She  cautioned to be careful  what was asked                                                                    
because it  could keep coming  back in the future.  She read                                                                    
from  a  legal opinion  she  had  received from  Legislative                                                                    
Legal Services:                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     Allowing  the commissioner  to  transfer funds  between                                                                    
     appropriations  is most  likely unlawful  delegation of                                                                    
     the legislature's  appropriation power. A  violation of                                                                    
     the separation  of powers doctrine, a  violation of the                                                                    
     prohibition on  transfers between  appropriations under                                                                    
     AS  37.07.080,  and  a  violation  of  the  confinement                                                                    
     clause   under   Article   2,   Section   13   of   the                                                                    
     constitution.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Wilson  supported   the  amendment.  She  reminded                                                                    
subcommittee  chairs  that  they  had  all  removed  similar                                                                    
language out  of their agencies.  She noted that it  was not                                                                    
the  agency's purview  to  transfer between  appropriations.                                                                    
She added  that the  legislature had  divided appropriations                                                                    
even  more for  many agencies  because it  wanted to  ensure                                                                    
funds  were  spent on  what  the  legislature intended.  She                                                                    
noted  that the  language  was no  different  than what  had                                                                    
already been  removed. She had been  frustrated the previous                                                                    
year when  the legislature  had been told  departments could                                                                    
spend money wherever they wanted.  She stressed that was not                                                                    
her intent.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Josephson  mentioned  Vice-Chair  Johnston's                                                                    
amendment  to collapse  appropriations.  He  asked how  that                                                                    
interplayed with the current amendment.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair  Johnston replied  it was  her amendment  because                                                                    
she was concerned about how  aggressively the department was                                                                    
trying to  make changes. She realized  the process addressed                                                                    
in Amendment  H HSS 12 was  not legal and should  not occur.                                                                    
She supported the amendment.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
5:26:23 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Sullivan-Leonard noted  the  issue had  been                                                                    
discussed the previous  year. She had been  concerned to see                                                                    
that money could be moved  as the department deemed fit. She                                                                    
noted she had offered a  $25 million reduction amendment the                                                                    
prior year. She supported the amendment.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilson WITHDREW her OBJECTION.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
There being  NO further  OBJECTION, Amendment  H HSS  12 was                                                                    
ADOPTED.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
5:27:09 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative Josephson  MOVED to ADOPT Amendment  H HSS 13                                                                    
(copy on file):                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     Adult Preventative Dental Medicaid Services                                                                                
     H HSS 13 - Maintain Full Funding for Adult                                                                                 
     Preventative Medicaid Dental Services                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     Wordage:                                                                                                                   
     It  is   the  intent   of  the  legislature   that  the                                                                    
     Department of Health and  Social Services maintain full                                                                    
     funding   for   adult  preventative   dental   Medicaid                                                                    
     services                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
     Explanation:                                                                                                               
     Ensures the adult preventative Medicaid dental program                                                                     
     will be maintained                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilson OBJECTED for discussion.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Josephson referenced  an amendment  by Vice-                                                                    
Chair Johnston  that her amendment cutting  $58 million kept                                                                    
adult dental  intact. He offered  the amendment in  the same                                                                    
vein  that  Representative  LeBon  had  offered  his  recent                                                                    
amendment. He  could not know without  great expertise, what                                                                    
the  department would  do; however,  the committee  had been                                                                    
told  that the  department may  respond to  intent language.                                                                    
The committee had heard that  an $8 million investment would                                                                    
bring   $18  million   from  the   federal  government.   He                                                                    
underscored that  if the  department cut  adult preventative                                                                    
dental, Alaska  would join  only three  states that  did not                                                                    
offer  the  service. He  emphasized  the  importance of  the                                                                    
service.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Representative   Sullivan-Leonard  recalled   from  a   DHSS                                                                    
presentation  that  individuals  needing dental  care  would                                                                    
receive it  if the situation  was an emergency. She  did not                                                                    
recall that the dental program would go away.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair  Johnston clarified  there  were  two programs  -                                                                    
emergency   dental  and   adult  preventative   dental.  The                                                                    
emergency   dental   program   more   than   likely   caused                                                                    
hospitalization and  was for individuals in  trauma who were                                                                    
losing  teeth.  Whereas,  the  preventative  dental  program                                                                    
caught numerous  systemic issues. She cited  diabetes as one                                                                    
of the  most important  things that  could be  identified by                                                                    
preventative   dental   services.   Additionally,   systemic                                                                    
infections could  be identified. For those  reasons, she had                                                                    
not included  preventative dental  in the Medicaid  cuts [in                                                                    
Amendment HSS B].                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilson MAINTAINED her OBJECTION.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
A roll call vote was taken on the motion.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
IN FAVOR: Josephson, Johnston,  Knopp, LeBon, Ortiz, Wilson,                                                                    
Foster                                                                                                                          
OPPOSED: Sullivan-Leonard, Tilton, Carpenter, Merrick                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
The MOTION  PASSED (7/4). There being  NO further OBJECTION,                                                                    
Amendment H HSS 13 was ADOPTED.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
5:30:34 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative Josephson  WITHDREW Amendment H HSS  14 (copy                                                                    
on file) related to Medicaid reductions.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Representative Sullivan-Leonard asked  why the amendment was                                                                    
not being offered.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair  Johnston  replied  the amendment  would  not  be                                                                    
offered  because the  committee had  already approved  a $58                                                                    
million reduction to Medicaid Services.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
5:31:15 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative Josephson WITHDREW Amendments  H HSS 15 and H                                                                    
HSS 16 (copy on file).                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Representative Josephson  MOVED to ADOPT Amendment  H HSS 17                                                                    
(copy on file):                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     Medicaid Services                                                                                                          
     H HSS 17 - Honor the Small Facilities                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     Wordage:                                                                                                                   
     It  is   the  intent   of  the  legislature   that  the                                                                    
     department  of Health  and  social  services honor  the                                                                    
     terms, conditions,  and rate  schedules set out  in the                                                                    
     already  signed "Small  Facility Medicaid  Payment Rate                                                                    
     Agreements" with all facilities.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilson OBJECTED for discussion.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Representative Josephson  reviewed the amendment  that would                                                                    
honor small  facilities contracts.  He read from  a prepared                                                                    
statement:                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     This  amendment again  deals  with  Medicaid rates  and                                                                    
     directs  DHSS to  honor the  contracts  it has  already                                                                    
     signed with  critical access hospitals.  The department                                                                    
     told  us  that  critical   access  hospitals  would  be                                                                    
     protected under  the drastic  Medicaid proposal  that -                                                                    
     in my  view it was  drastic, and we've scaled  it back.                                                                    
     According to several  experts who have come  to us, the                                                                    
     department  may   be  able  to  hold   critical  access                                                                    
     hospitals harmless from outpatient  rate cuts, but they                                                                    
     can not guarantee with any  level of comfort that these                                                                    
   hospitals will not be impacted by the proposed cuts.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     Critical access  hospitals operate both acute  care and                                                                    
     long-term  care   services  under   one  administrative                                                                    
     structure.  The fact  that DHSS  has  signed one  small                                                                    
     facility agreement  that includes rates for  both acute                                                                    
     care  and long  term  care  demonstrates an  integrated                                                                    
     facility.  A  cut to  one  part  of the  facility  will                                                                    
     certainly impact the other part  of the facility. Since                                                                    
     the department has no  way of confidently articulating,                                                                    
     in  my  opinion,  the  harm that  might  be  caused  to                                                                    
     critical access  hospitals through rate cuts,  the best                                                                    
     way to  protect critical  access hospitals is  to honor                                                                    
    the small facility agreements that DHSS has signed.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Josephson  noted  that  the  contracts  were                                                                    
referred to  in 7  AAC 150.190. He  explained that  DHSS had                                                                    
come  to the  hospitals and  asked  them to  enter into  the                                                                    
agreements. He  did not want  Medicaid reforms  to interfere                                                                    
with  the  agreements.  He   detailed  that  the  agreements                                                                    
outlined  the payment  rate  and  inflationary adjustment  a                                                                    
facility would receive annually  for the four-year period of                                                                    
the  agreement, which  would provide  the  hospitals with  a                                                                    
stable payment environment to meet community needs.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
5:33:48 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair  Johnston   asked  if  the   amendment  precluded                                                                    
reopening an agreement  from both parties in the  event of a                                                                    
new rate structure or block grant.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Representative Josephson replied it  was a good question. He                                                                    
stated the four-year contracts should  be abided by; if both                                                                    
parties agreed to renew the  contract, they could enter into                                                                    
such a discussion.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Carpenter opposed  the amendment.  He stated                                                                    
the  committee   had  not  wanted   to  take  many   of  the                                                                    
administration's  recommendations on  budget  cuts, but  the                                                                    
committee  was willing  to pass  intent  language on  policy                                                                    
matters.  He   thought  the   committee  should   focus  its                                                                    
attention on fiscal matters and  have the courage to address                                                                    
the  budget  deficit with  meaningful  cuts.  He stated  the                                                                    
committee  had  cut  approximately  $59 million  from  a  $3                                                                    
billion budget.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilson MAINTAINED her OBJECTION.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Representative Josephson provided wrap  up on the amendment.                                                                    
He clarified that  the committee had cut much  more than $59                                                                    
million.  He pointed  out the  committee had  cut more  than                                                                    
that in  the cut  to school  bond debt  reimbursement alone.                                                                    
The committee had heard from  the department about hospitals                                                                    
covering two  functions. He noted that  Representative Knopp                                                                    
had spoken  about long-term care functions,  which were also                                                                    
functions  of critical  access hospitals.  He stressed  that                                                                    
the department  had approached the entities  and had entered                                                                    
into  the   contracts  in  good   faith.  He   believed  the                                                                    
department should be required to comply with the contracts.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
A roll call vote was taken on the motion.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
IN  FAVOR:  Josephson,   Johnston,  Knopp,  LeBon,  Merrick,                                                                    
Ortiz, Wilson, Foster                                                                                                           
OPPOSED: Tilton, Carpenter, Sullivan-Leonard                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
The MOTION  PASSED (8/3). There being  NO further OBJECTION,                                                                    
Amendment H HSS 17 was ADOPTED.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
5:37:17 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative Tilton  WITHDREW Amendment H HSS  18 (copy on                                                                    
file).                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Tilton MOVED  to ADOPT  Amendments H  HSS 19                                                                    
and H HSS 20 (copy on file):                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     Medicaid Services                                                                                                          
     H  HSS   19  -  Limitation  on   Medicaid  funding  for                                                                    
     abortions.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     Wordage:                                                                                                                   
     No  money appropriated  in  this  appropriation may  be                                                                    
     expended  for  an  abortion that  is  not  a  mandatory                                                                    
     service  required  under  AS  47.07.030(a).  The  money                                                                    
     appropriated  for Health  and  Social  Services may  be                                                                    
     expended  only for  mandatory  services required  under                                                                    
     Title XIX of  the Social Security Act  and for optional                                                                    
     services offered by the state  under the state plan for                                                                    
     medical  assistance  that  has  been  approved  by  the                                                                    
     United States Department of Health and Human Services.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     Explanation:                                                                                                               
     Leg. Legal Memo 31-GH1905R.5 attached                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     Medicaid Services                                                                                                          
     H HSS 20 - Decrement the UGF amount expended on                                                                            
     abortions in FY18                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     In FY2018 the Alaska Medicaid program paid for                                                                             
     abortions for 805 women at a cost of $334,669.11(per                                                                       
     the Department of Health and Social Services).                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     1004 Gen Fund {UGF) -334.7                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilson OBJECTED for discussion.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Representative   Tilton   reviewed   the   amendments.   The                                                                    
amendments would add intent language  into the budget to put                                                                    
limitations   on  Medicaid   spending  for   abortions.  The                                                                    
amendments would also remove $334,000  that had been paid as                                                                    
the  state portion  for abortions  that  were not  medically                                                                    
necessary.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Representative Merrick supported  the amendments. She shared                                                                    
that she had  been adopted at birth from  an unwed teenager.                                                                    
She stated  that it broke her  heart the state had  paid for                                                                    
805 babies  to not get the  chance she had. She  shared that                                                                    
her  father and  mother had  passed away  and she  could not                                                                    
think  of  a  better  way  to honor  their  legacy  than  to                                                                    
advocate for  those babies. She  believed using  state funds                                                                    
for abortions was morally and ethically wrong.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
5:39:08 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative Carpenter was in  favor of the amendments. He                                                                    
shared  that two  days back  marked the  anniversary of  his                                                                    
family losing  its first grandbaby. He  expressed his belief                                                                    
that abortion was  wrong. He thought there was  a better way                                                                    
to  deal with  the  problems in  people's  lives. He  stated                                                                    
people had a choice and could choose to adopt.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
5:40:48 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Sullivan-Leonard  supported the  amendments.                                                                    
She recalled Alaskans testifying they  wanted to see a moral                                                                    
budget. She  argued that the  state's budget was  not moral.                                                                    
She believed the amendments were  moral. She did not support                                                                    
using state funds for abortions.  She spoke about people who                                                                    
would have  loved to  adopt a baby.  She questioned  when it                                                                    
was the government's role to be involved with moral issues.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Representative Knopp  expressed support for  the amendments.                                                                    
He  shared  that  as  a  Catholic he  was  prolife,  but  he                                                                    
characterized  his  views  as "prolife  with  a  slant."  He                                                                    
thought there  was substantial value  in a women's  right to                                                                    
choose.  However,  his  preference  was there  would  be  no                                                                    
abortions. He thought  the use of public  funds and Medicaid                                                                    
services made it almost too  convenient to have an abortion.                                                                    
He  would  not  oppose  abortions and  believed  there  were                                                                    
different  circumstances for  everyone. However,  he thought                                                                    
the use of public funds may cause abortions to run rampant.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
5:43:12 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Ortiz agreed  on the difficulty of  the topic. He                                                                    
associated    his   comments    with   comments    made   by                                                                    
Representative  Knopp.  He  shared   that  he  came  from  a                                                                    
Catholic family  and was pro-life.  He pointed out  that the                                                                    
particular amendments  were not about ending  abortions, but                                                                    
about reducing access  to abortions for those  who were less                                                                    
advantaged.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilson  discussed that  a few  years ago  there had                                                                    
been a  bill before  the legislature,  and she  recalled the                                                                    
same argument  had been made  - that passing the  bill would                                                                    
prevent   individuals  from   finding  the   resources.  She                                                                    
disputed that claim. She pointed  to Planned Parenthood as a                                                                    
resource. She thought the organization  made it too easy for                                                                    
people, but  it was the organization's  choice. She believed                                                                    
the amendments were not about  whether a woman had a choice.                                                                    
She  would  vote  for  the   amendments  because  she  liked                                                                    
Representative  Merrick  and  because it  was  public  money                                                                    
going to  something that was  not medically necessary.   She                                                                    
believed  that sometimes  if the  choice was  made a  little                                                                    
harder,  people had  to  think more  about  a decision.  She                                                                    
stated it  did not necessarily  mean someone could  not find                                                                    
the service. She believed there  should be parameters around                                                                    
the subject. She thanked  Representative Merrick for sharing                                                                    
her story.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
5:45:40 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair  Johnston  stated  her  only  concern  was  about                                                                    
whether the amendment would survive a legal challenge.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Tilton answered  that the  dollars had  been                                                                    
decreased  from  the  budget   for  several  years  and  the                                                                    
decreases had survived.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Johnston had seen it  the last two years. She was                                                                    
concerned "it has  yet to pass and be signed."  She asked if                                                                    
she was accurate.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Representative Tilton  answered that the increment  had been                                                                    
included in the budget and the budget had been reduced.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Johnston  observed that in  FY 18 there  had been                                                                    
805 [abortions via  the Medicaid program]. She  asked if the                                                                    
item passed the prior year.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Representative Tilton  replied the  funding had been  in the                                                                    
budget for FY 19, "not, the  dollar amount was reduced in FY                                                                    
19."                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Johnston  shared that she would  never personally                                                                    
have  an abortion.  She believed  the best  thing the  state                                                                    
could do  was to  always offer birth  control. There  was an                                                                    
aspect of  having public funds  used for abortions  that she                                                                    
found concerning.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Representative LeBon  thanked the  sponsor for  bringing the                                                                    
amendments forward. He expressed his support.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilson  WITHDREW her OBJECTION to  Amendments H HSS                                                                    
19 and H HSS 20.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Representative Josephson OBJECTED.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
5:48:29 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Josephson  recognized  the validity  of  the                                                                    
positions espoused  by other members and  would never engage                                                                    
in  a debate  about those  positions. However,  the language                                                                    
had  been tested  and found  unconstitutional. He  clarified                                                                    
that did  not mean  he believed  members should  not support                                                                    
the amendment.  He needed  a roll  call to  be taken  on the                                                                    
amendments.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Tilton  thanked  members for  sharing  their                                                                    
personal stories. She asked for members' support.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
A roll call vote was taken on the motion.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
IN  FAVOR:  Carpenter,   Johnston,  Knopp,  LeBon,  Merrick,                                                                    
Ortiz, Sullivan-Leonard, Tilton, Wilson                                                                                         
OPPOSED: Josephson, Foster                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
The MOTION  PASSED (9/2). There being  NO further OBJECTION,                                                                    
Amendments H HSS 19 and H HSS 20 were ADOPTED.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
5:50:25 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Johnston MOVED to ADOPT  Amendment H HSS 21 (copy                                                                    
on file):                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     Alaska Pioneer Homes Pioneer Homes                                                                                         
     GA 3/27 Implement Alaska Pioneer Homes Rate Increase                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     This  fund  source  adjustment  decreases  the  federal                                                                    
     receipt  authority in  the Pioneer  Homes to  align the                                                                    
     amount requested  with what the Department  believes is                                                                    
     realizable.   There  are   also   adjustments  to   the                                                                    
     interagency   receipt  authority   in  recognition   of                                                                    
     initiatives  to increase  Medicaid reimbursement  rates                                                                    
     in tandem with private-pay  rate increases reflected as                                                                    
     general  fund   program  receipts.  This   fund  change                                                                    
     reverses  a  portion  fund   change  reflected  in  the                                                                    
     original FY2020 Governor's Amended request.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     1002 Fed Rcpts (Fed)     -3,741.0                                                                                          
     1005 GF/Prgm (DGF)       -5,855.4                                                                                          
     10071/A Rcpts (Other)    9,596.4                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilson OBJECTED for discussion.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair  Johnston  reviewed   the  amendment  related  to                                                                    
interagency  receipt authority  of $9,596,400  to anticipate                                                                    
increased Medicaid reimbursement and private pay receipts.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilson  understood it  was a  governor's amendment.                                                                    
She assumed  the Medicaid portion  would be [paid  with] the                                                                    
federal  receipts. She  asked if  the  General Fund  program                                                                    
funds were related to insurance.  She asked for verification                                                                    
the amendment  would not  do anything  for those  people who                                                                    
did not have the funds.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Johnston agreed.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Josephson asked  Co-Chair  Wilson to  repeat                                                                    
her question.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Wilson complied.  She  believed  the General  Fund                                                                    
program must be receipts for  the anticipation of those with                                                                    
long  care  insurance.  She  assumed  the  federal  receipts                                                                    
related to Medicaid  for the increase to  the Pioneer Homes.                                                                    
She wanted  to make sure  "that what we weren't  looking at,                                                                    
with people  who didn't  have the  funds, that  this somehow                                                                    
was an  increase on  those individuals."  She had  been told                                                                    
the  amendment  would  not   affect  those  individuals  who                                                                    
currently did not have insurance and were not on Medicaid.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
5:52:30 PM                                                                                                                    
AT EASE                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
5:55:33 PM                                                                                                                    
RECONVENED                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Josephson  reported  his question  had  been                                                                    
answered.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilson WITHDREW her OBJECTION to the amendment.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
There being NO further OBJECTION, H HSS 21 was ADOPTED.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Representative Tilton WITHDREW H HSS 22 (copy on file).                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
5:57:07 PM                                                                                                                    
RECESSED                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
6:46:34 PM                                                                                                                    
RECONVENED                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Foster  explained  the   committee  would  hear  a                                                                    
language section amendment.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Carpenter MOVED  to  ADOPT Language  Section                                                                    
Amendment  16,  31-GH1905\R.32   (Bruce,  4/1/19)  (copy  on                                                                    
file):                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     Agency: Education & Early Dev                                                                                              
     Appropriation: K-12 Aid to School Districts                                                                                
     Allocation: Additional Foundation Funding                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     Transaction Details                                                                                                        
     Title: Delete $30 Million Outside BSA                                                                                      
     Section: Language                                                                                                          
     Type: Dec                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     Grants: -30,000.0                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     Funding                                                                                                                    
     1004 Gen Fund -30,000.0                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     Delete additional $30 million outside of the BSA.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     Page 76, line 27:                                                                                                          
     Delete all material and insert:                                                                                            
     "* Sec. 30. Section 4, ch. 6, SLA 2018, and sec.                                                                           
     27(c), ch. 19, SLA 2018, are repealed."                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilson OBJECTED.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Carpenter  explained  the  amendment  was  a                                                                    
repeal of the  $30 million funding outside  the Base Student                                                                    
Allocation (BSA) from the previous session.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Josephson  explained  that the  funding  was                                                                    
part of  a settlement  of the legislative  session in  FY 18                                                                    
that  included  passage of  SB  287  (curriculum monies  and                                                                    
other features). The BSA had not  been raised in a number of                                                                    
years  and instead  of fighting  over  the BSA  (due to  the                                                                    
perceived  permanency   it  created   in  the   budget)  the                                                                    
legislature had added the money.  He opposed changing course                                                                    
and believed the money was necessary.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
6:49:25 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Knopp   spoke  against  the   amendment.  He                                                                    
relayed  he   had  crafted  the   same  amendment   and  had                                                                    
considered introducing it.  He noted that he  did not expect                                                                    
the state's fiscal  situation to improve in  the next couple                                                                    
of years  and he  had been concerned  about the  $20 million                                                                    
for the FY  18 and FY 19  and the $30 million for  FY 20. He                                                                    
did not  want schools to start  to count on the  funds going                                                                    
forward. He  reasoned that because  the budget needed  to be                                                                    
reduced and the  increment had not yet  been appropriated or                                                                    
spent  by districts,  he thought  making  the reduction  was                                                                    
appropriate.   However,   since   the   school   bond   debt                                                                    
reimbursement had  been repealed,  he would not  support the                                                                    
amendment. He  explained that  his district's  percentage of                                                                    
the [$30 million] amount was  around $1 million. He believed                                                                    
districts would  feel the impact in  the local contributions                                                                    
that the borough provided the  school district. He hoped the                                                                    
[$30  million]  increment  would offset  the  reduction  [to                                                                    
school bond debt reimbursement].                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Sullivan-Leonard  directed   a  question  to                                                                    
Vice-Chair  Ortiz, the  DEED subcommittee  chair, and  asked                                                                    
what the education budget had been  for FY 18, FY 19, and FY                                                                    
20.                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Wilson replied  that in  FY 18  there had  been no                                                                    
additional  funds outside  of the  BSA. The  total had  been                                                                    
about  $1.3  billion. An  additional  $20  million had  been                                                                    
added  for FY  19, although  it had  not yet  been given  to                                                                    
districts -  she remarked the  funds were "still  being held                                                                    
hostage."  The  last figure  she  had  seen was  about  $1.3                                                                    
billion  to education  - the  total amount  fluctuated. They                                                                    
had  kept the  BSA to  the same  amount for  FY 20  with the                                                                    
addition of  the $30 million [one-time]  funding outside the                                                                    
BSA.                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Representative Sullivan-Leonard was  trying to determine how                                                                    
much  education funding  had increased  over the  past three                                                                    
years  or whether  funding had  remained stable.  She stated                                                                    
she was interested in total cost.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilson assumed  Representative Sullivan-Leonard was                                                                    
interested in  funds going to  school districts and  not the                                                                    
budget for the department.  She referenced the approximately                                                                    
$1.2 billion for the BSA  and explained that student numbers                                                                    
had decreased  but special  needs had  increased; therefore,                                                                    
the cost had been fairly  steady from year-to-year. The only                                                                    
increases to districts had been in the BSA.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
6:53:14 PM                                                                                                                    
AT EASE                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
6:55:48 PM                                                                                                                    
RECONVENED                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Sullivan-Leonard reported  her question  had                                                                    
been answered.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilson would not support  the amendment at present.                                                                    
She  saw  the $30  million  as  an opportunity.  She  stated                                                                    
currently  there was  $20 million  going in.  She considered                                                                    
that perhaps  the money could  be split. She  wondered about                                                                    
incentivizing behavior the legislature  may want to see. She                                                                    
believed  there was  an opportunity  to do  so with  the $30                                                                    
million. She  did not know  what that  incentivization would                                                                    
look like  at present;  therefore, she  was not  prepared to                                                                    
offer an amendment  related to the subject.  She thought the                                                                    
legislature needed  to address  the situation with  the DEED                                                                    
commissioner. She noted the commissioner  had a plan and was                                                                    
looking for  ways to  incentivize things  such as  3rd grade                                                                    
reading.  She continued  it would  not be  ongoing operating                                                                    
items, but  things that may  need some capital help  such as                                                                    
curriculum, testing,  or other.  She stated  the legislature                                                                    
had done  the same thing in  the past with security  - items                                                                    
that were capital projects.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilson considered whether  there was an opportunity                                                                    
to step  down from the $20  million that was already  in the                                                                    
school budgets and  get some better data in  the next couple                                                                    
of  years for  things like  3rd grade  reading, high  school                                                                    
outcomes,  graduation rates,  and other.  She stated  it was                                                                    
tied  to  SB 26  [Permanent  Fund  percent of  market  value                                                                    
(POMV) legislation that passed  the legislature in 2018] and                                                                    
she had not  voted for the bill because of  the $30 million.                                                                    
She clarified  it was not  because she did not  want schools                                                                    
to  have  money. She  recalled  listening  to everyone  talk                                                                    
about  wanting different  outcomes. She  thought perhaps  it                                                                    
was a good way to utilize  the funds to jump start something                                                                    
that schools did  not have the opportunity to  do because of                                                                    
a lack of  funds. She reasoned there was still  more time in                                                                    
the process to consider those avenues.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
6:58:12 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative Carpenter provided wrap  up on the amendment.                                                                    
He spoke to  the need to address the  state's budget deficit                                                                    
through  spending   cuts.  He  understood  the   concept  of                                                                    
incentivizing  one action  for another.  He stated  that "we                                                                    
get the POMV  and the reduction of  Permanent Fund Dividends                                                                    
to  give $30  million  to schools."  He  continued the  past                                                                    
legislative  body had  opted against  the difficult  task of                                                                    
fixing the BSA. He added he  had not been in the legislature                                                                    
at  the time  and  it  was hard  to  criticize action  taken                                                                    
before he was in the  legislature. He pointed out the action                                                                    
tied the  hands of a  future legislature. He  thought budget                                                                    
items needed to  be within an election  cycle, but currently                                                                    
the legislature's hands were tied  with forward funding by a                                                                    
past  legislature. He  stated that  conditions had  changed,                                                                    
and the  legislature needed to  have the ability  to address                                                                    
the  budget deficit.  He had  a  philosophical problem  with                                                                    
incentivizing schools to do something they should be doing                                                                      
already. He was opposed to tying better results to more                                                                         
money, but he was open to creative solutions.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilson MAINTAINED her OBJECTION.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
A roll call vote was taken on the motion.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
IN FAVOR: Sullivan-Leonard, Tilton, Carpenter                                                                                   
OPPOSED: Josephson, Johnston, Knopp, LeBon, Merrick, Ortiz,                                                                     
Wilson, Foster                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
The MOTION to adopt Amendment LS 16 FAILED (3/8).                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
7:00:44 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilson MOVED to ADOPT Amendments H LAW 1, 2, 3, 4,                                                                     
5, and 6 (copy on file):                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     Criminal   Division                                                                                                        
     First Judicial District                                                                                                    
     H LAW 1 - First Judicial District Reduction                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     Remove one prosecutor and one support staff in Juneau,                                                                     
     and one support staff in Ketchikan.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     1004 Gen Fund (UGF) -337.8                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     Second Judicial District                                                                                                   
     H LAW 2 - Delete one support staff in Nome                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     Delete one support staff (97.8)                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     1004 Gen Fund (UGF) -97.8                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     Third Judicial District: Anchorage                                                                                         
     H LAW 3 - Delete two prosecutors and one support staff                                                                     
     in Anchorage                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     Delete two prosecutors and one support staff in the                                                                        
     Third Judicial District.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
     1004 Gen Fund (UGF) -426.9                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     Third Judicial District: Outside Anchorage                                                                                 
     H LAW 4 - Delete Positions from Third Judicial                                                                             
     District                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
     Delete two support staff from the Third Judicial                                                                           
     District.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     1004 Gen Fund (UGF) -183.9                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     Fourth Judicial District                                                                                                   
     H LAW 5 - Delete one prosecutor and one support staff                                                                      
     in Fairbanks and one support staff in Bethel                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     Delete one prosecutor and one support staff in                                                                             
     Fairbanks and one support staff in Bethel.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     1004 Gen Fund (UGF) -260.1                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     Criminal Appeals/Special Litigation                                                                                        
     H LAW 6 - Delete one prosecutor and two support staff                                                                      
     in Anchorage                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     Delete one prosecutor and two support staff in                                                                             
     Anchorage.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     1004 Gen Fund (UGF) -292.0                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Representative Josephson OBJECTED.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilson  reviewed the amendments. She  explained the                                                                    
amendments pertained to additions that  had been made to the                                                                    
Department  of  Law (DOL)  with  the  anticipation they  may                                                                    
never  see the  light of  day  "because of  where the  crime                                                                    
bills  currently are."  She had  committed  to working  with                                                                    
Representative Josephson  on looking  at the  positions when                                                                    
the committee received  the crime bill. She  stated that the                                                                    
committee  had  never  added positions  in  anticipation  of                                                                    
seeing or not seeing a  bill. She was concerned about adding                                                                    
positions to  one department, but  not another.  She thought                                                                    
adding the positions to one  department may be nice for that                                                                    
department,  but  harder for  others.  She  wanted to  begin                                                                    
looking at  things outside of  silos. She believed  the best                                                                    
way  to  do so  would  be  when a  crime  bill  came to  the                                                                    
committee. She  was asking to  remove the positions  for the                                                                    
aforementioned reasons. She planned  to revisit the issue in                                                                    
the near future, hopefully prior to May 15.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Representative Josephson  explained that  the funds  had not                                                                    
been  designed to  supplant or  replace anything  that would                                                                    
come  from the  crime bills  (either SB  32 or  HB 49  - the                                                                    
bills  that carried  larger fiscal  notes  due to  increased                                                                    
sentencing  that would  result).  He stressed  that even  if                                                                    
there were no  crime bills, the individuals  impacted by the                                                                    
amendments were  needed, due to "absurdly  great" caseloads.                                                                    
Additionally,  the  U.S.  Department of  Justice  had  taken                                                                    
(with  $10,000  incentives)  prosecutors from  the  district                                                                    
attorney's office.  He read  from a  recent letter  from the                                                                    
Department of  Law addressed to  Senator Bert  Stedman: "The                                                                    
overall  turnover  rate  in for  the  Criminal  Division  in                                                                    
calendar year  2018 -  93 of  213 positions."  He emphasized                                                                    
that the  number reflected  a 44  percent turnover  rate (37                                                                    
percent  of prosecutors,  41 percent  of paralegals,  and 66                                                                    
percent of  legal support staff).  He pointed out  that two-                                                                    
thirds of  the support  staff wanted  out because  they were                                                                    
given an  impossible task. He  had never seen  anything like                                                                    
it. He  reported the subcommittee  had heard that in  FY 14,                                                                    
the  Criminal  Division  had  245  budgeted  positions;  the                                                                    
division currently had 212 budgeted positions.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
7:04:43 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative   Josephson   read   an  excerpt   from   the                                                                    
governor's proposed operating budget DOL agency narrative:                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     "With fewer  staff, the  Criminal Division  must screen                                                                    
     case  referrals to  focus on  the most  serious crimes,                                                                    
     with an  emphasis on sexual  assault and  other violent                                                                    
     crimes and  taking fewer  cases to  trial. At  the same                                                                    
     time  that the  Criminal  Division's  budget was  being                                                                    
     reduced, the Criminal Division  saw a dramatic increase                                                                    
     in the  number of  felony prosecutions filed  in court.                                                                    
     Felony  filings have  increased by  18 percent  between                                                                    
     2017  and  2018.  While  all  types  of  felonies  have                                                                    
     increased, the largest increases  have been in the more                                                                    
     serious   types  of   crime  -   felony  assaults   and                                                                    
     robberies.  In addition  to an  increase in  the felony                                                                    
     workload, the  number of  misdemeanors being  filed has                                                                    
     also  increased.   With  such  dramatic   increases  in                                                                    
     workload,  combined   with  staffing   reductions,  the                                                                    
     Criminal  Division has  been  forced  to resolve  cases                                                                    
     short of trial and often at a lower level than                                                                             
     originally charged."                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Josephson  noted  the DOL  agency  narrative                                                                    
also  talked about  morale issues  and  reductions in  plea,                                                                    
which  he  recognized  was  a  way to  resolve  a  case.  He                                                                    
submitted that the department was  in a state of crisis. The                                                                    
positions were  not connected to  a bill but  were connected                                                                    
to the  budget. He  stated the positions  were part  of what                                                                    
the previous administration  had said was needed  as part of                                                                    
the Public  Safety Action Plan. The  action plan recommended                                                                    
five prosecutor positions per year  for a three-year period.                                                                    
The amendment would impact those five positions.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
7:06:20 PM                                                                                                                    
AT EASE                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
7:08:01 PM                                                                                                                    
RECONVENED                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Representative LeBon  asked if  the positions  were proposed                                                                    
or filled.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilson answered the positions  were new and had not                                                                    
yet been filled.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Representative   Sullivan-Leonard   had   heard   from   the                                                                    
administration  that  it  wanted   to  repeal  SB  91,  that                                                                    
prosecutors  were  needed,  and  that the  state  needed  to                                                                    
prosecute criminals.  She wanted to know  how the amendments                                                                    
helped  the cause  to get  criminals  prosecuted and  behind                                                                    
bars.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilson  replied that was  exactly her point  - that                                                                    
the issue  did not  only involve  one agency.  She discussed                                                                    
that part of  the current governor's public  safety plan was                                                                    
to address  the concerns  within whatever [crime]  bills may                                                                    
come before the committee.  She elaborated the concerns were                                                                    
addressed  and  considered  multiple   needs  such  as  more                                                                    
prosecutors  and  conflict  attorneys,  and  whether  courts                                                                    
should stay open on Fridays.  She emphasized it could not be                                                                    
a  silo  issue. She  thought  the  positions the  amendments                                                                    
would  eliminate   addressed  the  issue  in   a  silo.  She                                                                    
clarified   she  was   not  claiming   the  positions   were                                                                    
unnecessary, but she thought taking  care of only one agency                                                                    
would not make things work any quicker.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
7:10:02 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative Sullivan-Leonard  wondered why  the positions                                                                    
would be  removed if they  were connected to  the governor's                                                                    
crime bills.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilson  answered that was  not the way  the process                                                                    
worked. She clarified the committee  needed to wait until it                                                                    
had the bills to know exactly  what the bills would do (i.e.                                                                    
if the  bills would increase  jail sentences or  change more                                                                    
penalties from misdemeanors to  felonies). She explained the                                                                    
changes would all fall into  the fiscal notes. She continued                                                                    
that if  the committee decided  to pass a crime  bill, there                                                                    
would be  discussion about the number  of prosecutors needed                                                                    
and other.  There would  be a  discussion with  all involved                                                                    
agencies present  to ensure they  had the desired  number of                                                                    
positions.  She   highlighted  that   the  bills   were  not                                                                    
currently in the committee's possession.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Representative   Carpenter  found   it  difficult   to  have                                                                    
conversations  about  future  things.   He  pointed  to  the                                                                    
Department  of  Corrections   problem  the  legislature  was                                                                    
trying  to  solve -  contingent  on  future action.  He  was                                                                    
frustrated   that   the   current  political   climate   was                                                                    
indicating that  most of the governor's  requests were being                                                                    
challenged by  the [House]  majority. He  questioned whether                                                                    
the  committee  would  see  crime  bills  come  forward.  He                                                                    
wondered  where  the  issues   would  be  addressed  if  the                                                                    
committee did not address them  in the budget. He feared the                                                                    
public would  be left scratching  their heads at the  end of                                                                    
session as to why the legislature failed to act.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
7:12:24 PM