Legislature(2017 - 2018)ADAMS ROOM 519

04/27/2018 09:00 AM FINANCE

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Audio Topic
09:06:33 AM Start
09:07:22 AM HB331
09:08:11 AM Amendments
05:31:31 PM Adjourn
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
-- Recessed to a Call of the Chair --
+= HB 331 TAX CREDIT CERT. BOND CORP; ROYALTIES TELECONFERENCED
Heard & Held
+ Bills Previously Heard/Scheduled TELECONFERENCED
                  HOUSE FINANCE COMMITTEE                                                                                       
                      April 27, 2018                                                                                            
                         9:06 a.m.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
9:06:33 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CALL TO ORDER                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Foster called the House Finance Committee meeting                                                                      
to order at 9:06 a.m.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Representative Neal Foster, Co-Chair                                                                                            
Representative Paul Seaton, Co-Chair                                                                                            
Representative Les Gara, Vice-Chair                                                                                             
Representative Jason Grenn                                                                                                      
Representative David Guttenberg                                                                                                 
Representative Scott Kawasaki                                                                                                   
Representative Dan Ortiz                                                                                                        
Representative Lance Pruitt                                                                                                     
Representative Louise Stutes (alternate)                                                                                        
Representative Steve Thompson                                                                                                   
Representative Cathy Tilton                                                                                                     
Representative Tammie Wilson                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
None                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
ALSO PRESENT                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Mike Barnhill,  Deputy Commissioner, Department  of Revenue;                                                                    
Ken Alper,  Director, Tax  Division, Department  of Revenue;                                                                    
Bill  Milks, Department  of  Law;  Mary Gramling,  Assistant                                                                    
Attorney   General,   Department  of   Law;   Representative                                                                    
Charisse Millett.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
PRESENT VIA TELECONFERENCE                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Jim Beckham, Deputy Director, Division of Oil and Gas,                                                                          
Department of Natural Resources                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
SUMMARY                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
HB 331    TAX CREDIT CERT. BOND CORP; ROYALTIES                                                                                 
          HB 331 was HEARD and HELD in committee for                                                                            
          further consideration.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Foster reviewed the agenda for the meeting.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
[Note: Representative Grenn was absent for a portion of the                                                                     
morning segment of the meeting. During that time                                                                                
Representative Louise Stutes served as alternate.]                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE BILL NO. 331                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     "An Act establishing the  Alaska Tax Credit Certificate                                                                    
     Bond Corporation;  relating to purchases of  tax credit                                                                    
     certificates; relating  to overriding  royalty interest                                                                    
     agreements; and providing for an effective date."                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
9:07:22 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
^AMENDMENTS                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
9:08:11 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Seaton MOVED to ADOPT Amendment 30-GH2863\A.11                                                                         
(Nauman, 4/24/18) (copy on file):                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     Page 9, following line 14:                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     Insert a new bill section to read:                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     "*Sec. 6. AS 43.55.028(b) is amended to read:                                                                              
          (b) The oil and gas tax credit fund consists of                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
               (1)   money   appropriated   to   the   fund,                                                                    
               including    any    appropriation   of    the                                                                    
               percentage   provided  under   (c)  of   this                                                                    
               section of  all revenue from taxes  levied by                                                                    
               AS 43.55.011  that  is  not  required  to  be                                                                    
               deposited   in   the  constitutional   budget                                                                    
               reserve  fund established  in  art. IX,  sec.                                                                    
               17(a), Constitution  of the State  of Alaska,                                                                    
               less  the amount  described  in  (o) in  this                                                                    
               section; and                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
               (2) earnings on the fund."                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     Renumber the following bill sections accordingly.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     Page 14, following line 26:                                                                                                
     Insert a new subsection to read:                                                                                           
     "(o) The  legislature may reduce an  appropriation made                                                                    
     under (b)(l) of this section  by an amount equal to the                                                                    
     amount   appropriated   to   the  Alaska   Tax   Credit                                                                    
     Certificate  Bond Corporation  for  maintenance of  the                                                                    
     required debt service reserve in  the Alaska Tax Credit                                                                    
     Certificate   Bond   Corporation   reserve   fund,   as                                                                    
     calculated under AS 37.18.040(g)."                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Representative Wilson OBJECTED for discussion.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Seaton explained  the  amendment  with a  prepared                                                                    
statement.  He  explained  the  amendment  would  prevent  a                                                                    
double appropriation. He shared  that currently, if the bill                                                                    
were  to pass,  the statutory  formula for  appropriation to                                                                    
the  Oil  and  Gas   Tax  Credit  Fund  remained  unchanged.                                                                    
Therefore, the  legislature would be directed  by statute to                                                                    
make a  statutory appropriation  to the  fund, and  the debt                                                                    
service  obligation  payment  to the  new  Bond  Corporation                                                                    
Reserve Fund. He stated that  the amendment would change the                                                                    
current  Oil  and  Gas  Tax  Credit  Fund  statute,  so  any                                                                    
payments  made  under  debt service  to  the  newly  created                                                                    
Alaska  Tax Credit  Certificate  Bond  Corporation would  be                                                                    
subtracted from  an appropriation  made to  the Oil  and Gas                                                                    
Tax Credit Fund.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Foster  invited the Department of  Revenue (DOR) to                                                                    
the table for questions.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MIKE BARNHILL,  DEPUTY COMMISSIONER, DEPARTMENT  OF REVENUE,                                                                    
introduced himself.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Representative Wilson spoke to  her objection. She felt that                                                                    
they  did not  know who  would  be taking  advantage of  the                                                                    
program. She maintained her objection.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Representative   Pruitt   wondered  whether   the   language                                                                    
prevented the  state from at least  paying those individuals                                                                    
who may not participate in the program.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Seaton replied  that  he  believed those  payments                                                                    
would  be made.  He explained  that  there would  only be  a                                                                    
subtraction of the amount that was made to the bond.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Foster asked to hear from the department.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
9:12:31 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
KEN ALPER,  DIRECTOR, TAX  DIVISION, DEPARTMENT  OF REVENUE,                                                                    
agreed  the  amendment  was  meant  to  be  subtractive.  He                                                                    
explained    that   one    must   examine    the   statutory                                                                    
appropriation. The  guidance from  the legislature  would be                                                                    
to  take the  statutory appropriation  number, and  subtract                                                                    
the number  that was, per  the actuarial chart,  directed to                                                                    
the debt  service and bond payback  formula. Therefore, only                                                                    
the  difference should  be appropriated  to  the Tax  Credit                                                                    
Fund. He noted that it would  be a smaller number, but still                                                                    
a positive number, and used for  those who may choose not to                                                                    
participate in the program.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Representative Pruitt  wondered whether the  amount required                                                                    
for the  bonds be larger  than one of the  two calculations,                                                                    
should there be a change in the out years.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Barnhill  responded that  there were  multiple meetings,                                                                    
and  an  attempt  to provide  assurance  of  preserving  the                                                                    
option to not  participate. He stated that if  one chose not                                                                    
to participate,  they would be  able to present  for payment                                                                    
their   tax  credits   under  the   statutory  schedule   as                                                                    
interpreted  by  DOR.  He  stressed  that,  no  matter  what                                                                    
occurred  in  the  bill  and   to  be  consistent  with  the                                                                    
optionality,  the administration  would present  the numbers                                                                    
in  the budget  for those  tax credit  holders that  did not                                                                    
participate   in  the   program.   He   restated  that   the                                                                    
legislature had the appropriation  option. He stressed that,                                                                    
because of  the way  that the bill  was constructed,  he had                                                                    
not heard from any tax  credit holder that they intended not                                                                    
to participate.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Foster   wished  Mr.  Alper  happy   birthday.  He                                                                    
recognized Representative Charisse Millett in the audience.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Representative Pruitt stated that  he had received an answer                                                                    
to his question.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
9:17:31 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Alper believed there was  another amendment later in the                                                                    
packet,  but  stated  that  DOR  was  comfortable  with  the                                                                    
amendment language.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Representative Wilson  asked if the program  was supposed to                                                                    
be voluntary.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Barnhill replied in the affirmative.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Wilson  wondered  whether  a  company  would                                                                    
still consider a program "voluntary"  if the legislature was                                                                    
still finding ways to "screw" them.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Mr.   Barnhill   would   not  speak   for   the   companies'                                                                    
perspective. The  goal was  getting to  a balanced  and fair                                                                    
situation.  He stressed  that the  intent was  to administer                                                                    
for the opt-out as if the bill had never passed.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Representative Wilson  remarked that currently, there  was a                                                                    
schedule  on when  a company  could anticipate  payment. She                                                                    
wondered whether  an increase in  oil price would  allow for                                                                    
everyone to be paid sooner,  because people would be removed                                                                    
from the formula.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Alper answered  that if  the  appropriation was  higher                                                                    
than the statutory formula, everyone  would receive more for                                                                    
the  pro-rata,  and receive  a  higher  percentage of  their                                                                    
credit paid. He  stated that the number built  into the bill                                                                    
itself would not change, because  it was tied to the formula                                                                    
change and forecasted numbers.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Representative   Wilson   stressed   that  she   wanted   to                                                                    
understand  how  the  bill  would  currently  function.  She                                                                    
remarked that there  was not a set time  for credit payment,                                                                    
because it  still depended on  the amount of money  that was                                                                    
given. She  stressed that  it was  a voluntary  program, and                                                                    
the state  would not want to  make people to be  forced into                                                                    
the program.  She felt that  the company could not  make the                                                                    
final decision until the program was functioning properly.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair  Gara asked  about the  anticipation if  the bill                                                                    
passed  and  the bond  sale  was  successful. He  asked  how                                                                    
quickly the  companies applying for  funds would  have their                                                                    
debts paid.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Barnhill answered  that  it would  be  as immediate  as                                                                    
possible.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Gara stated that if  everything went smoothly and                                                                    
$600 million in  credits were bonded and  paid to companies.                                                                    
He stressed  that if the  amendment passed,  the legislature                                                                    
would  appropriate $600  million in  the first  year to  the                                                                    
bond payment .                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Alper answered  the  intent of  the  amendment was  not                                                                    
about  the $600  million,  but about  the  $200 million.  He                                                                    
stressed that DOR  was not looking to  screw anyone, because                                                                    
their pro rata  share would increase. He  explained that the                                                                    
amendment would  reduce the statutory appropriation  for the                                                                    
amount going to the bond debt service.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
9:24:13 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Gara surmised it was  not the full amount paid on                                                                    
the bonds, rather  the debt service reduced  the amount owed                                                                    
under the statutory formula.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Alper replied in the  affirmative. He explained that the                                                                    
amount going to the debt  service was defined, and could not                                                                    
be changed once there was  a bond obligation. He stated that                                                                    
the amount  would be subtracted  from the  statutory formula                                                                    
to reduce the amount that  would go to the non-participating                                                                    
companies.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Gara did  not think anyone was  being screwed. He                                                                    
felt that paying $600 million  in tax credits, and paying in                                                                    
addition the  remaining portion of the  statutory obligation                                                                    
would make  it seem it was  in excess of the  direction from                                                                    
the many years  prior. He felt that there would  be more tax                                                                    
credit payments than under the status quo.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Guttenberg   appreciated  hearing   from  an                                                                    
employee  of ING  in a  recent meeting  because there  was a                                                                    
unique conversation  about the  situation. He  remarked that                                                                    
ING  supported   the  program,  because  it   "answered  the                                                                    
problem." He queried  the influence of ING  on the companies                                                                    
that owed them money.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Barnhill  believed  ING  had  testified  to  the  exact                                                                    
question.  His recollection  was they  had answered  that it                                                                    
would  be a  joint decision.  He  could not  speak to  other                                                                    
creditors.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Representative Wilson  stated it was her  understanding that                                                                    
the bill had  been put before the legislature  to provide an                                                                    
option for  companies to get  their tax credits  sooner. She                                                                    
believed the  bill was supposed  to hold  harmless companies                                                                    
that  chose not  to participate.  She thought  the amendment                                                                    
appeared to penalize companies that decided not to                                                                              
participate. She focused on the original intent of the                                                                          
bill.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
9:30:46 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative Wilson MAINTAINED her OBJECTION.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
A roll call vote was taken on the motion.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
IN FAVOR: Gara,   Stutes,   Guttenberg,   Kawasaki,   Ortiz,                                                                    
Foster, Seaton                                                                                                                  
OPPOSED: Wilson, Pruitt, Thompson, Tilton                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
The MOTION PASSED (7/4). There being NO further OBJECTION,                                                                      
Amendment 1 was ADOPTED.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Foster moved Amendment 2 to the bottom of the                                                                          
list.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Seaton MOVED to ADOPT Amendment 3, 30-GH2863\A.25                                                                      
(Nauman, 4/25/18) (copy on file):                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     Page 1, line 2, following "certificates;":                                                                                 
     Insert "relating to the oil and gas tax credit fund;"                                                                      
     3                                                                                                                          
     4 Page 9, line 24, following "year.":                                                                                      
     5 Insert "The total amount of purchases made by the                                                                        
     department with money from                                                                                                 
     6 the oil and gas tax credit fund from a person in a                                                                       
     year may not exceed the assumed                                                                                            
     7 payment amount for each year, as calculated under CD                                                                     
     of this section without the                                                                                                
     8 discount provided in (m) of this section."                                                                               
     9                                                                                                                          
     10 Page 13, line 17, following the first occurrence of                                                                     
     "in":                                                                                                                      
     11 Insert "the"                                                                                                            
     12                                                                                                                         
     13 Page 13, line 24:                                                                                                       
     14 Delete "a year applies"                                                                                                 
    15 Insert "applies each year after the first year"                                                                          
     16                                                                                                                         
     17 Page 13, line 30, following "year":                                                                                     
     18 Insert "after the first year"                                                                                           
     19                                                                                                                         
     20 Page 14, line 4, following "year":                                                                                      
     21 Insert "after the first year"                                                                                           
     22                                                                                                                         
     23 Page 14, line 6:                                                                                                        
     L -1- Drafted by legal Services                                                                                            
     30-GH2863\A.25                                                                                                             
     Delete "was required to submit"                                                                                            
     2 Insert "submitted"                                                                                                       
     3                                                                                                                          
     4 Page 14, line 14, following "incur":                                                                                     
     5 Insert ".n                                                                                                               
     6                                                                                                                          
     7 Page 14, line 15:                                                                                                        
     8 Delete "or?                                                                                                              
     9 Insert"."                                                                                                                
     10                                                                                                                         
     I I Page 14, line 16:                                                                                                      
     12 Delete "provided"                                                                                                       
     13 Insert", and"                                                                                                           
     14                                                                                                                         
     15 Page 14, following line 26:                                                                                             
     16 Insert a new subsection to read:                                                                                        
     17 "(o) After bonds are first issued by the Alaska Tax                                                                     
     Credit Certificate Bond                                                                                                    
     18 Corporation established under AS 37.18.010, the                                                                         
     legislature may determine the                                                                                              
     19 amount of an appropriation under (b)(l) of this                                                                         
     section by multiplying the percentage                                                                                      
     20 under (c) of this section by the net revenue from                                                                       
     taxes levied by AS 43.55.011 ."                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Representative Wilson OBJECTED for discussion.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
9:32:04 AM                                                                                                                    
AT EASE                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
9:33:02 AM                                                                                                                    
RECONVENED                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Seaton  explained that the intent  of the amendment                                                                    
was that if  a company decided not to take  advantage of the                                                                    
bonding  corporation, the  company  would  not benefit  from                                                                    
other companies  taking the pay  out from the  bond company.                                                                    
The language  was suggested by the  department, and included                                                                    
language was  that after  the first  issuance of  bonds, the                                                                    
statutory  formula   for  determining  the   calculation  of                                                                    
appropriation to  the Oil and  Gas Tax Credit Fund  would be                                                                    
based  on  net  revenue.  He  stated  that  the  action  was                                                                    
included in  the House-approved  budget, which was  based on                                                                    
the Fall forecast number.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Foster asked for comments by the department.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Barnhill explained  that there  was an  intent to  take                                                                    
care of the  tax credit holders who did  not participate, as                                                                    
if the bill did not  exist - therefore receiving the payment                                                                    
that  that  would have  otherwise.  He  furthered that,  for                                                                    
those that did not  participate, the statutory formula would                                                                    
be on  a net  basis. He  stated that  he was  concerned with                                                                    
that  aspect of  the  amendment.  He recalled  conversations                                                                    
with the  tax credit holders  about the attempt  to preserve                                                                    
the  optionality. The  optionality  represented  to the  tax                                                                    
credit  holders would  be a  calculation  of their  payments                                                                    
under  the gross  formula. The  amendment  would change  the                                                                    
optionality going  forward to a  net formula,  and expressed                                                                    
concerns with  that change. He  recommended the  number that                                                                    
preserves the gross optionality.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
9:35:59 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative Wilson  spoke to her objection.  She surmised                                                                    
that the  amendment would "break everything  done thus far."                                                                    
She expressed  concern about holding  more money  out, which                                                                    
resulted in more liability for  a longer period of time. She                                                                    
felt that it was a precedence  going with the net revenue as                                                                    
a new norm. She felt that it sent the wrong message.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Representative Pruitt remarked that  there would still be an                                                                    
opportunity for  those who chose  to not participate  in the                                                                    
program to  result in  certain people  taking a  discount to                                                                    
receive  their credits  earlier.  He felt  that the  program                                                                    
would only  work if it were  "all or nothing." He  felt that                                                                    
there may be a compromise to  achieve the goal. He felt that                                                                    
payments  should be  based on  growth  revenue. He  restated                                                                    
that everyone should participate in the program.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
9:39:34 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Alper  pointed  that  there  were  a  number  of  small                                                                    
technical edits located  by the drafter, which  may clean up                                                                    
some  minor  points and  concerns.  He  stressed that  those                                                                    
middle sections were materially important.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Wilson MOVED  to ADOPT  conceptual Amendment                                                                    
1.  She explained  that the  conceptual amendment  would not                                                                    
set precedence, should the bill fail to pass.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Seaton  OBJECTED. He stated that  the amendment was                                                                    
consistent with the  House's passed budget. He  would not be                                                                    
in  favor  of  saying  its interpretation  of  drafting  the                                                                    
budget.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair  Gara understood  the  intent  of the  conceptual                                                                    
amendment, but did not believe it would work.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
9:43:50 AM                                                                                                                    
AT EASE                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
9:50:13 AM                                                                                                                    
RECONVENED                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Foster  noted that Representative Grenn  had joined                                                                    
the meeting online.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Seaton  MAINTAINED  his  OBJECTION  to  conceptual                                                                    
Amendment 1.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
A roll call vote was taken on the motion.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
IN FAVOR: Pruitt, Thompson, Tilton, Wilson                                                                                      
OPPOSED: Guttenberg,  Kawasaki, Ortiz, Gara,  Grenn, Foster,                                                                    
Seaton                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
The MOTION to adopt conceptual Amendment 1 FAILED (4/7).                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Representative Wilson MAINTAINED  her OBJECTION to Amendment                                                                    
3.                                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
A roll call vote was taken on the motion.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
IN FAVOR: Ortiz, Pruitt,  Thompson, Gara, Grenn, Guttenberg,                                                                    
Kawasaki, Foster, Seaton                                                                                                        
OPPOSED: Tilton, Wilson                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
The MOTION PASSED (9/2).                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Representative Guttenberg  MOVED to  ADOPT Amendment  4, 30-                                                                    
GH2863\A.32 (Nauman, 4/26/18) (copy on file):                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
     Page 14, lines 14 ~ 20:                                                                                                    
     Delete all material and insert:                                                                                            
     "(3)  that the  applicant commits  to incur,  not later                                                                    
     than 24 months after                                                                                                       
     the  purchase  of  the certificate,  qualified  capital                                                                    
     expenditures in an amount greater than                                                                                     
     or equal to the purchase amount, and                                                                                       
     (A) the  applicant provides to the  department evidence                                                                    
     of the                                                                                                                     
     commitment and a plan to                                                                                                   
     (i)  use the  qualified  capital  expenditures for  the                                                                    
     purpose                                                                                                                    
     of increasing production  of oil or gas  from leases or                                                                    
     properties in the                                                                                                          
     state; and                                                                                                                 
     (ii) maximize the hiring of state residents and use of                                                                     
     state   business    related   to    qualified   capital                                                                    
     expenditures;                                                                                                              
     (B)  the  applicant  agrees  in   writing  to  pay  the                                                                    
     department the                                                                                                             
     difference  between  the rate  paid  and  the rate  the                                                                    
     applicant would have paid had                                                                                              
     this  subsection  not  applied. plus  interest  on  the                                                                    
     amount that is consistent with                                                                                             
     the interest  rate provided for a  delinquent tax under                                                                    
     AS 43.05.225, if the                                                                                                       
     applicant    does   not    incur   qualified    capital                                                                    
     expenditures in an amount greater                                                                                          
     than or equal  to the purchase amount  within 24 months                                                                    
     after the purchase of                                                                                                      
     the certificate; and                                                                                                       
     (C) after  reviewing documents submitted under  (A) and                                                                    
     (B) of                                                                                                                     
     this  paragraph, the  commissioner  approves the  lower                                                                    
     discount rate for the                                                                                                      
     purchase."                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Representative Wilson OBJECTED for discussion.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Representative Guttenberg explained the amendment.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
9:55:25 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative Kawasaki asked to hear from the Department                                                                       
of Natural Resources (DNR).                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
JIM  BECKHAM,  DEPUTY DIRECTOR,  DIVISION  OF  OIL AND  GAS,                                                                    
DEPARTMENT  OF   NATURAL  RESOURCES   (via  teleconference),                                                                    
introduced himself.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Representative Kawasaki  understood that  the intent  was to                                                                    
ensure that  the money be spent  in the state. He  felt that                                                                    
the language in the current  bill was fairly vague, and only                                                                    
talked  about providing  evidence of  the commitment  to the                                                                    
department.  He remarked  that there  was an  amendment that                                                                    
addressed  qualified capital  expenditures  for purposes  of                                                                    
increasing  production.   He  wondered  whether   that  also                                                                    
included building a rig, but  not building the rig in state,                                                                    
but   still   obtaining   through  the   qualified   capital                                                                    
expenditures.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Beckham deferred  the capital  expenditure question  to                                                                    
Mr. Alper.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Alper asked to hear the question again.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Representative Kawasaki  pointed to  page 1,  subsection (i)                                                                    
of the  amendment, which stated  that the  qualified capital                                                                    
expenditure (QCE) would be for  increasing oil production on                                                                    
leases or  properties in  the state.  He wondered  whether a                                                                    
person could  use a  QCE to  build something  in Washington,                                                                    
bring it to Alaska, and  use it for increasing production of                                                                    
oil and gas leases.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Alper  replied in  the affirmative.  He stated  that the                                                                    
expenditure must  be upstream, and  on the lease  itself. He                                                                    
remarked that  it was  not unusual  to have  something built                                                                    
out of  state, shipped to  Alaska, and  used as part  of the                                                                    
oil production operations on the field.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Kawasaki wondered  how  DNR would  establish                                                                    
the focus  on hiring among  the state businesses  related to                                                                    
the QCE.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Beckham  replied  that, currently,  there  was  similar                                                                    
language  in leases  involving pipelines,  land leases,  and                                                                    
other  endeavors related  to  oil and  gas.  He shared  that                                                                    
several  companies provided  an  internal  policy guide  for                                                                    
employees  to  show  that   they  were  actively  recruiting                                                                    
Alaskans.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
9:59:25 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative Kawasaki wondered whether  there was an audit                                                                    
whether those efforts were followed through.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Beckham  replied that he  was not  aware of a  time when                                                                    
there was an audit of a company's hiring program.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Kawasaki asked  for verification  the answer                                                                    
was no.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Beckham affirmed.  He stated  that most  companies felt                                                                    
that it was good business to hire Alaskans.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Representative Kawasaki wanted to  ensure that the amendment                                                                    
was constructed narrowly to ensure  that Alaskan workers got                                                                    
back tot work.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Wilson  asked  if all  the  companies  under                                                                    
discussion were within two years of production.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Beckham answered  it would be difficult  to say, because                                                                    
were and some were not.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Wilson   asked  if   Mr.  Beckham   had  the                                                                    
amendment.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Beckham answered in the affirmative.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Representative Wilson  how else  they would measure  for the                                                                    
production of  oil and gas aside  from the amount of  oil in                                                                    
the pipe.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Beckham answered that he did  not know. He would have to                                                                    
follow up with the commercial section chief.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative Thompson asked if  the amendment would impact                                                                    
refineries or other non-producer companies.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Alper  replied  no.  He stated  that  there  were  four                                                                    
different  ways  to  obtain the  better  discount  rate.  He                                                                    
explained that  the refineries had  a different  method; the                                                                    
seismic  credit  holders also  had  a  different method.  He                                                                    
stated that  it was limited  to the option  of reinvestment,                                                                    
rather the idea  of reinvestment in an oil  field to attempt                                                                    
to  obtain the  lower rate.  He stressed  that the  existing                                                                    
bill required  that there be  proof that the money  be spent                                                                    
within  three  years. He  remarked  that  the maker  of  the                                                                    
amendment placed  three conditions to ensure  that the money                                                                    
be   used  toward   progressing   a   field  toward   actual                                                                    
development and increased production.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
10:03:50 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Representative Pruitt  felt that a follow  thru for ensuring                                                                    
hiring Alaskans may be difficult,  because there would be an                                                                    
attempt to find qualified  individuals; and passing drug and                                                                    
alcohol tests. He stressed that  the companies would need to                                                                    
focus  on the  best to  fill  the position.  He supported  a                                                                    
"plan", but felt  that there should not be  actions beyond a                                                                    
plan. He asserted that there  would be a movement to another                                                                    
rate plus interest on the whole amount.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Barnhill  answered  that  the  department  had  similar                                                                    
questions. He directed  members to a slide from  a prior DOR                                                                    
presentation [State of Alaska  Department of Revenue HB 331:                                                                    
Oil and  Gas Tax Credit  Bond Proposal dated April  21, 2018                                                                    
(copy  on file)].  He looked  at page  11, which  had a  tax                                                                    
credit holder with  $100 million in credits.  He noted that,                                                                    
under  the  10 percent  option,  with  a plan  of  qualified                                                                    
capital expenditures  to expend $91.5 million  over the next                                                                    
two year, then  they would receive the  lower discount rate.                                                                    
Otherwise,  they would  receive  the  higher discount  rate,                                                                    
with $84.7 million.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Alper  elaborated  that  the   company  would  need  to                                                                    
payback,  and  remarked that  there  could  be a  conceptual                                                                    
amendment to "square that circle."                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Representative Pruitt  did not  want to penalize  the entire                                                                    
amount, so he supported the  idea of a conceptual amendment.                                                                    
He stressed that delays would occur.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
10:09:30 AM                                                                                                                   
AT EASE                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
10:10:54 AM                                                                                                                   
RECONVENED                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Foster moved Amendment 4  to the bottom of the list                                                                    
to rewrite the amendment.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
10:11:28 AM                                                                                                                   
RECESSED                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
12:44:50 PM                                                                                                                   
RECONVENED                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Foster called the meeting back to order.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Representative Guttenberg reported that  the new Amendment 4                                                                    
was not available yet. He WITHDREW Amendment 4.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Seaton MOVED to ADOPT Amendment 5, 30-GH2863\A.29                                                                      
(Nauman, 4/25/18) (copy on file):                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     Page 16, lines 26 - 27:                                                                                                    
     2 Delete all material and insert:                                                                                          
     3 "(h) The department shall separately account for the                                                                     
     revenue collected from an                                                                                                  
     4 overriding royalty interest agreement that the                                                                           
     department deposits in the general fund.                                                                                   
     5 The legislature may appropriate the annual estimated                                                                     
     balance in the account to the                                                                                              
     6 Alaska tax credit certificate bond corporation                                                                           
     reserve fund established under                                                                                             
     7 AS 37.18.040."                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Representative Wilson OBJECTED for discussion.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Seaton explained the amendment.  He stated that the                                                                    
amendment would address the  overriding royalties. He stated                                                                    
that   overriding   royalty   interest,  coming   from   the                                                                    
agreements of the  section, may be appropriated  to the bond                                                                    
council reserve  fund to have  a revenue stream to  help pay                                                                    
off the bond.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Representative Wilson  asked for  a better  understanding of                                                                    
the overriding royalty interest agreements.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Barnhill responded that the  amendment would require the                                                                    
revenue  collected  be deposited  in  the  general fund  and                                                                    
separately accounted,  if the state  went into  an agreement                                                                    
with a  tax credit  holder through  which they  would access                                                                    
the  lower  discount  rate  through  proving  an  overriding                                                                    
royalty interest                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Representative Wilson queried the source of the money.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Alper replied that the  overriding royalty agreement was                                                                    
signed between the  producer and DNR, and would  be an extra                                                                    
payment. He  stated that,  because it was  a state  lease on                                                                    
state  land,  there  would  be  an  agreement  to  pay  some                                                                    
additional amount. He  furthered that the money  would be an                                                                    
additional revenue source.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Representative   Wilson  asked   about  the   constitutional                                                                    
concerns being addressed in the amendment.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Barnhill responded that it  was not clear to what degree                                                                    
it addressed  the constitutional  concerns expressed  to the                                                                    
committee from Legislative Legal Services. He stated that t                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Representative Wilson suggested the  committee hear from the                                                                    
Legislative Legal Services.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Foster asked  his  staff to  see  if someone  from                                                                    
Legislative Legal Services could get online.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
12:50:30 PM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Guttenberg wondered  whether there  were any                                                                    
situations where  the overriding  royalty interest  would be                                                                    
lower in the negotiation.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Alper responded  in the  negative. He  stated that  the                                                                    
concept of overriding royalty was  separate from the concept                                                                    
of  royalty. He  explained  that royalty  was  a land  owner                                                                    
share, and was a part of  the lease. The royalty was part of                                                                    
the  underlying  rules around  producing  oil  on land  that                                                                    
belonged  to somebody  else. He  stated that  the overriding                                                                    
royalty  was a  side deal  unrelated to  the land  ownership                                                                    
interest. The overriding  royalty was an agreement  to pay a                                                                    
third party  a fraction of  the value, for  whatever reason.                                                                    
He stated  that, in this case,  the state would also  be the                                                                    
third  party. He  remarked that  there may  be circumstances                                                                    
where DNR might  agree to a royalty relief  for the existing                                                                    
statute, it  would be separate  from any  overriding royalty                                                                    
or additional payment associated with the bond program.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Seaton  looked at  line 5  of the  amendment, which                                                                    
showed  that the  legislature "may  appropriate", which  was                                                                    
like many of the designated  funds. He noted that the direct                                                                    
question of  the constitutionality  problem was  not solved,                                                                    
but  established a  separate revenue  source  that would  be                                                                    
generated  from the  bonds. The  overriding royalty  was the                                                                    
side deal, which made up for the 5 percent drop.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Representative Wilson had her question answered.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Wilson WITHDREW  her OBJECTION.  There being                                                                    
NO OBJECTION, it was so ordered. Amendment 5 was ADOPTED.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Kawasaki MOVED  to  ADOPT  Amendment 6,  30-                                                                    
GH2863\A.27 (Nauman, 4/25/18) (copy on file):                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
     Page 2, line 12, following "administration.":                                                                              
     2 Insert "The Corporation may issue bonds under this                                                                       
     section only if it makes a finding                                                                                         
     3 that, both before and after the issuance of the                                                                          
     bonds, the state bond rating will be the                                                                                   
     4 equivalent of AA- or better."                                                                                            
     5                                                                                                                          
     6 Page 6, line 31, following "inhabitants":                                                                                
     7 Insert "and the state bond rating, both before and                                                                       
     after the issuance of refunding                                                                                            
     8 bonds, will be the equivalent of AA- or better"                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Representative Wilson OBJECTED for discussion.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Representative   Kawasaki   explained  the   amendment.   He                                                                    
remarked that the discussion of  the bill was related to the                                                                    
construction   of  the   Alaska   Pension  Obligation   Bond                                                                    
Corporation  formation.  He stated  that  he  had looked  at                                                                    
Section 37.16, and compared it  to the discussion in the Oil                                                                    
and Gas  Tax Credit  Corporation bond  scheme. He  felt that                                                                    
there   were   some   differences  related   to   the   bond                                                                    
authorization.  He noted  that,  in  the pension  obligation                                                                    
bond corporation,  the bond  authorization could  only occur                                                                    
if the  bond rating was an  equivalent of AA- or  better. He                                                                    
felt  that  the  amendment  was in  line  with  the  pension                                                                    
obligation bond. He wondered why it was removed.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
12:54:50 PM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Barnhill did  not know why it was removed.  He felt that                                                                    
it  was intended  to replicate  the pension  obligation bond                                                                    
corporation   statute  to   the  fullest   extent  possible.                                                                    
Currently, the  state's credit rating could  go down further                                                                    
over the  next 10 year.  The anticipation was that  the bond                                                                    
issuance would  not have a  problem with the  credit rating.                                                                    
However, the  state might  not be  able to  maintain bonding                                                                    
capacity for 10 years.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Kawasaki summarized  that the  credit rating                                                                    
would  remain in  place, and  recalled  that Devon  Mitchell                                                                    
asserted that the bond capacity  would be lower. He wondered                                                                    
why that would represent a lowering of the credit rating.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Barnhill did  not testify that there would  be an impact                                                                    
to the state's credit rating.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Representative Kawasaki restated his question.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Barnhill  clarified that, prior  to the issuance  of the                                                                    
bonds, it would be difficult for  DOR to make a finding that                                                                    
the state would maintain the  credit rating for the entirety                                                                    
of the  life of the bonds.  He noted that the  Department of                                                                    
Law may have comments related to the topic.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
12:59:41 PM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
BILL MILKS,  ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL, DEPARTMENT  OF LAW,                                                                    
looked  at AS  37.16.030, and  felt that  the representation                                                                    
regarding   the   state  bond   rating   did   not  have   a                                                                    
representation regarding after the  issuance of the bond. He                                                                    
stressed that it  was a representation that  the bonds would                                                                    
only be  issued if the  equivalent of  AA- or better  at the                                                                    
time of the issuance of the bonds.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Representative   Kawasaki  recalled   the  reason   for  the                                                                    
language at AA- was put in statute.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Barnhill  was with  the state  of the  time but  did not                                                                    
recall the reason for the language.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Representative Kawasaki  asked if there  was a reason  to be                                                                    
worries about jeopardizing the state's bonding.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Barnhill reiterated  that it  would impact  the state's                                                                    
debt   capacity  but   not   its   rating.  The   department                                                                    
anticipated that the state's credit  rating would remain the                                                                    
same after the bonds were issued.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Representative Kawasaki  queried the opposition  to language                                                                    
that required a AA- or higher  subsequent to the time of the                                                                    
issuance of the bond and afterward.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Barnhill   replied  he  could   never  make   the  bond                                                                    
statement.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Wilson  queried  what  would  occur,  should                                                                    
there be a sudden drop.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
1:04:04 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative Kawasaki  replied that the amendment  was the                                                                    
protection. He  stressed that there  was a hope to  keep the                                                                    
bond rating at  least AA- now and  immediately following the                                                                    
issuance of the  bond. He stated that, over  that life span,                                                                    
the state would also like  to maintain at least that rating.                                                                    
He also  wanted validation from the  bank and administration                                                                    
that those goals would be accomplished.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Representative   Wilson  remarked   that   there  would   be                                                                    
inability to go  after the bonds without  any substance. She                                                                    
did not support the amendment.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Seaton  felt that, looking  into the  future, there                                                                    
were  no guarantees.  He  did not  feel  that the  amendment                                                                    
would work within the bill.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair  Gara  would have  to  oppose  the amendment.  He                                                                    
thought the  temperature would be  raised with  the adoption                                                                    
of the amendment.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
1:08:41 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Kawasaki   clarified  that  the   focus  was                                                                    
related to a  subject to annual appropriation  bond, and the                                                                    
administration  stated that  it  was not  debt pledging  the                                                                    
full faith and  credit of the state. He  disagreed with that                                                                    
assertion.  He  felt  that the  amendment  would  allow  the                                                                    
corporation  to issue  the bonds,  only  with finding  that,                                                                    
both  before   and  after  issuance,  the   state  would  be                                                                    
protected  at AA-  or higher.  He felt  that it  was prudent                                                                    
investment  to  a  bond  authorization   that  could  be  $1                                                                    
billion.  He stressed  that he  was looking  to support  and                                                                    
protect future legislatures.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative Wilson MAINTAINED her OBJECTION.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
A roll call vote was taken on the motion.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
IN FAVOR: Kawasaki, Ortiz                                                                                                       
OPPOSED:  Pruitt,  Thompson,  Tilton, Wilson,  Gara,  Grenn,                                                                    
Guttenberg, Seaton, Foster                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
The MOTION MOVED to ADOPT Amendment 6 FAILED (2/9).                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
1:11:00 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative Kawasaki  MOVED to  ADOPT Amendment  7 30-Gl-                                                                    
12863 A.22 (Nauman, 4/25/18) (copy on file):                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     Page 5, line 12, following "variable":                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     Insert "A bond issued under this chapter must state on                                                                     
     its face that                                                                                                              
     (I) the legislature is not required to appropriate                                                                         
     money to the                                                                                                               
     corporation for any purpose;                                                                                               
     (2) the state is not liable if the legislature does                                                                        
     not appropriate to the                                                                                                     
     corporation the amount necessary) to maintain the                                                                          
     required debt service reserve; and                                                                                         
     (3) an appropriation of money to the corporation for                                                                       
     maintenance of                                                                                                             
     the required debt service reserve docs not obligate                                                                        
     the legislature to make a subsequent                                                                                       
     appropriation to the corporation."                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Representative Wilson OBJECTED for discussion.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Kawasaki shared  that  the amendment  showed                                                                    
the intent of how HB 331  was introduced by the governor. He                                                                    
stated that  it said  that a bond  issued under  the chapter                                                                    
did not require the legislature  to appropriate money to the                                                                    
corporation for  any purposes; the  state was not  liable if                                                                    
the legislature did not appropriate  the amount necessary to                                                                    
maintain  the   service;  and  it   did  not   obligate  the                                                                    
legislature  to  make  a  subsequent  appropriation  to  the                                                                    
corporation. The  testimony on HB 331  surrounding the legal                                                                    
aspect and  whether the bill incumbered  future legislatures                                                                    
was  an important  issue with  no resolution.  He understood                                                                    
that  there  may never  be  an  agreement about  the  bill's                                                                    
constitutionality  before  there  would  be a  vote  on  the                                                                    
legislation. He  stressed that he  did not want to  bind the                                                                    
legislature  to   make  subsequent  appropriations   in  the                                                                    
future.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Gara  felt that  he trusted  the administration's                                                                    
perspective on  the constitutionality.  He supposed  that an                                                                    
investor  would  know   that  it  would  be   a  subject  to                                                                    
appropriation bond.  He wondered  whether an  investor would                                                                    
know that without the amendment.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Barnhill replied in the affirmative.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
1:15:20 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair  Gara  indicated  that  there  was  a  number  of                                                                    
statements that  may denigrate the reputation  of the state.                                                                    
He  felt that  everyone would  honor the  obligation to  pay                                                                    
back  the  bonds,   even  though  the  may   be  subject  to                                                                    
appropriation.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Representative Wilson would not  be supporting the amendment                                                                    
because of the Department of  Law stated in its letter dated                                                                    
April  27, 2018  on  page 2,  that there  would  be a  clear                                                                    
statement. She  read, "bonds  were not  state debt,  and did                                                                    
not constitute a  general obligation of the  state, and that                                                                    
payment was subject to appropriation."                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Kawasaki thought  the  discussion was  about                                                                    
what  the  state was  going  to  do and  perhaps  obligating                                                                    
future  legislatures  without the  vote  of  the public.  He                                                                    
remarked that the legislature must  pay its debt in order to                                                                    
maintain its credit  rating. He stressed that  he wanted the                                                                    
legislature to consider the future.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Representative Wilson MAINTAINED her OBJECTION.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
A roll call vote was taken on the motion.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
IN FAVOR: Kawasaki, Ortiz, Guttenberg                                                                                           
OPPOSED:  Pruitt,  Thompson,  Tilton, Wilson,  Gara,  Grenn,                                                                    
Seaton, Foster                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
The MOTION FAILED (3/8).                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Representative Kawasaki would not be offering Amendment 8.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
1:19:49 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Kawasaki MOVED  to  ADOPT  Amendment 9,  30-                                                                    
GH2863\A.l8 (Nauman, 4/25/18) (copy on file):                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
     Page 2. lines 19 - 22:                                                                                                     
     2 Delete "The bonds do not constitute a general                                                                            
     obligation of the state and are not state                                                                                  
     3 debt within the meaning of art. IX. sec. 8.                                                                              
    Constitution of the State of Alaska. Authorization                                                                          
     4 by the voters of the state or the legislature is not                                                                     
     required."                                                                                                                 
     5 Insert "The bonds                                                                                                        
     6 (I) do not constitute a general obligation of the                                                                        
     state and are not state                                                                                                    
     7 debt within the meaning of art. IX. sec. 8.                                                                              
     Constitution of the State of Alaska:                                                                                       
     8 authorization by the voters of the state or the                                                                          
     legislature is not required; and                                                                                           
     9 (2) are not revenue bonds of a public corporation                                                                        
     within the meaning of art. IX, sec. II, Constitution                                                                       
     of the State of Alaska."                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Representative Wilson OBJECTED for discussion.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Representative Kawasaki  explained the amendment.  He stated                                                                    
that   the  amendment   did  not   constitute  the   general                                                                    
obligation  to the  state,  and was  not  state debt  within                                                                    
Article 9,  Section 8  of the  constitution. He  stated that                                                                    
the  intent of  the use  of  a public  corporation to  issue                                                                    
bonds within  HB 331  and SB  176 was not  to fall  into the                                                                    
exception  clause of  the  Alaska  constitution, Article  9,                                                                    
Section  11. Further,  item 2  discussed the  idea that  was                                                                    
also not a  revenue bond. He shared that a  revenue bond was                                                                    
a specific type of  instrumentality for financing. A revenue                                                                    
bond was a bond in which  the principal and interest were to                                                                    
be paid  solely from the  project they finance.  He stressed                                                                    
that they were common instruments.  He explained that it was                                                                    
a different instrument  planned to be used under  HB 331. He                                                                    
stated that  it was in  line with the other  amendments that                                                                    
he had sponsored that evening.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Foster invited comments from the department.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Barnhill felt  that  the language  was  already in  the                                                                    
bill. He  stressed that  the Department  of Law  had advised                                                                    
that the revenue bonds were  subject to appropriation bonds.                                                                    
There was not an attempt  to seek an exemption under Article                                                                    
9,  Section  11  of  the   constitution  by  constructing  a                                                                    
corporation  and  receiving  revenue.   He  noted  that  the                                                                    
committee   adopted  Amendment   5,  which   segregated  the                                                                    
revenue, which  was an  attempt to  provide revenue  back to                                                                    
the corporation in an attempt  to preserve the argument that                                                                    
the structure  fell within  Section 11 of  Article 9  of the                                                                    
constitution.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair  Gara  understood  Mr.  Barnhill's  argument.  He                                                                    
remarked  that   the  court   could  see   that  it   was  a                                                                    
constitutional issue.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Barnhill did not want to  say it was a tiny argument. He                                                                    
believed that  through advice and  decades of  practice that                                                                    
it would  not be an  issue. He remarked  that it was  now an                                                                    
issue,  and he  felt that  it was  an issue  that should  be                                                                    
resolved by  the Alaska  Supreme Court, so  there was  not a                                                                    
lack of  clarity. He remarked  that there would  be multiple                                                                    
opportunities for the legislature  to consider similar ideas                                                                    
on how  to advance  state interest  through the  issuance of                                                                    
debt.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
1:25:28 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Milks  thought Mr.  Barnhill  and  Vice-Chair Gara  had                                                                    
described the  Department of Law's viewpoint  accurately. He                                                                    
stated that the  issue was addressed on page 4  of the bill,                                                                    
and  the alternative.  He noted  that there  was a  possible                                                                    
notion  that  it would  be  considered  a revenue  bond.  He                                                                    
remarked that  Article 9, Section 11  critical condition was                                                                    
that a  public corporation issuing those  bonds provided the                                                                    
security from the corporation, not from the state.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Guttenberg  remarked  that  the  amendment's                                                                    
concerns  were   tied  to  Amendment   5.  He   queried  the                                                                    
percentage  of  a bond  revenue  would  make it  a  "revenue                                                                    
bond."  He  remarked  that Amendment  9  would  delete  that                                                                    
concern.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Milks  responded that the  primary position  was related                                                                    
to the subject of appropriation  bonds. He could not respond                                                                    
to the question of how  much revenue. He remarked that there                                                                    
was a memorandum that identified  some other states that had                                                                    
tackled that issue. He remarked  that the New Jersey Supreme                                                                    
Court had explicitly  stated that they would  not assess how                                                                    
much revenue  was behind a  revenue bond, because  there was                                                                    
the critical  factor of  whether the  state's full  faith in                                                                    
credit  was  pledged.  He remarked  that  under  Article  9,                                                                    
Section 11, the  requirement was when the  only security was                                                                    
from the corporation not the state.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
1:30:02 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Seaton expressed  concern regarding  the statement                                                                    
about lines  9 and 10,  and whether  they meant that  it did                                                                    
not fall into any exception  in Section 11. He remarked that                                                                    
Section 11 had  subsections that did not  apply to refunding                                                                    
indebtedness of the state or  its potential subdivisions. He                                                                    
felt that  the exceptions within  Section 11 did  not relate                                                                    
to the amendment.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Representative   Wilson   wondered  whether   the   language                                                                    
resulted  in the  state more  likely  to lose  in a  lawsuit                                                                    
versus the current language.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Milks  indicated that  the  amendment  did not  provide                                                                    
helpful language  for the purpose  in the bill.  He remarked                                                                    
that  there were  some who  felt that  the issues  should be                                                                    
analyzed under Article 9, Section 11.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Representative   Kawasaki   wondered    whether   a   public                                                                    
corporation  could be  created designed  to bond  revenue to                                                                    
help fund education in the future.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Barnhill replied that he  believed the answer was "yes."                                                                    
He   explained  that   the   difficulty   with  using   debt                                                                    
instruments  to fund  operating expenses  was that  the debt                                                                    
purchasing  market did  not look  upon those  instruments in                                                                    
very favorable  terms. He stated  that there  would probably                                                                    
be a  substantial premium  added to the  coupon in  order to                                                                    
attract interest  in purchasing  those bonds. He  noted that                                                                    
multiple states had  issued debt instruments to  be used for                                                                    
current year  revenues. He remarked  that those  states were                                                                    
roundly  criticized for  using  those  mechanisms, and  they                                                                    
payed  for that  activity with  additional debt  service and                                                                    
potential impacts to the credit rating.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Representative Kawasaki  argued that there were  states with                                                                    
different  constitutions  than  Alaska.  He  felt  that  the                                                                    
framers of the  constitution wanted to ensure  that debt was                                                                    
used very sparingly in all cases.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Representative Wilson MAINTAINED her OBJECTION.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
A roll call vote was taken on the motion.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
IN FAVOR: Guttenberg, Kawasaki                                                                                                  
OPPOSED:  Ortiz,  Pruitt,  Thompson, Tilton,  Wilson,  Gara,                                                                    
Grenn, Foster, Seaton                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
The MOTION FAILED (2/9).                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
1:35:47 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Seaton did not offer Amendment 10.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Foster asked Co-Chair Seaton if he wanted to offer                                                                     
Amendment 2.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Seaton responded that Legislative Legal Services                                                                       
were considering the language of the amendments.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Foster asked if corrected language for Amendment 4                                                                     
had been submitted by Legislative Legal Services.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Representative Guttenberg replied that did not believe so.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
1:37:31 PM                                                                                                                    
AT EASE                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
2:10:06 PM                                                                                                                    
RECONVENED                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Foster indicated there were 3 amendments to finish                                                                     
with.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Representative Guttenberg MOVED to ADOPT NEW Amendment 4,                                                                       
30-GH2863\A.33 (Nauman, 4/27/18) (copy on file):                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     Page 14, lines 14- 20:                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
          Delete all material and insert:                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
          "(3)  that the  applicant  commits  to incur,  not                                                                    
          later  than 24  months after  the purchase  of the                                                                    
          certificate, qualified capital  expenditures in an                                                                    
          amount  greater  than  or equal  to  the  purchase                                                                    
          amount, and                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
          (A) the applicant provides to the department                                                                          
         evidence of the commitment and a plan to                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
               (i)  use the  qualified capital  expenditures                                                                    
               for the purpose of  increasing  production of                                                                    
               oil or gas from leases  or properties  in the                                                                    
               state; and                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
                (ii)   maximize  the   hiring     of   state                                                                    
               residents    and  use   of  state  businesses                                                                    
               related to qualified capital expenditures;                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
          (B) the  applicant agrees in writing  that, if the                                                                    
          applicant   does  not   incur  qualified   capital                                                                    
          expenditures in  an amount  greater than  or equal                                                                    
          to the purchase  amount   within  24 months  after                                                                    
          the purchase  of the certificate,  the  applicant                                                                     
          shall pay the department the lesser of                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
               (i)  the  difference   between  the  purchase                                                                    
               amount  and the  amount  the applicant  would                                                                    
               have  been  paid   had  this  subsection  not                                                                    
               applied; or                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
               (ii)  the  difference  between  the  purchase                                                                    
               amount and the actual   amount   of                                                                              
               qualified capital expenditures incurred by                                                                       
               the applicant in the 24-month period; and                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
          (C) after reviewing  documents submitted under (A)                                                                    
          and (B)  of this   paragraph,   the   commissioner                                                                    
          approves   the  lower   discount   rate  for   the                                                                    
          purchase."                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     Page 14, following line 26:                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
          Insert a new subsection to read:                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
               "(o)  An agreement  under  (m)(3)(8) of  this                                                                    
               section may require the  applicant to pay the                                                                    
               department interest  on the amount  due under                                                                    
               (m)(3)_(B)  of  this  section.  The  interest                                                                    
               rate  must be  consistent  with the  interest                                                                    
               rate provided  for a delinquent tax  under AS                                                                    
               43.05.225."                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Representative Wilson OBJECTED.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Representative Guttenberg asked Mr. Alper to explain the                                                                        
amendment.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Alper remarked that there may be conceptual amendments                                                                      
required to move forward with an explanation of the                                                                             
amendment.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Representative Guttenberg indicated the  changes were in the                                                                    
new amendment.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Alper requested a copy of the amendment.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Foster  asked Representative Guttenberg  to explain                                                                    
the changes.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Guttenberg stated  that the  amendment would                                                                    
ensure  that  the  capital expenditures  would  be  for  the                                                                    
purpose of increased production.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Wilson  asked if  a  point  system would  be                                                                    
applied. She  indicated that with the  amendment there would                                                                    
be  additional   conditions.  She  was  wondering   how  the                                                                    
companies would measure progress.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
2:15:51 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Alper  responded that the original  amendment required a                                                                    
plan  to spend  the money.  He looked  at the  final clause,                                                                    
which said  that the commissioner  of DOR would  approve the                                                                    
plan. He  stated that there  had been added language  to put                                                                    
some  "meat" into  the plan.  The plan  must state  that the                                                                    
company would spend the money,  but would be spent on things                                                                    
that would move closer to production.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Representative Wilson asked if the commissioner was online.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Commissioner Fisher was available online.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Representative Wilson  wondered if  tangible items  would be                                                                    
required.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Commissioner  Fisher  explained  that  it  needed  to  be  a                                                                    
capital expenditure.  It was  appropriate to  capitalize the                                                                    
project  which   included  the  labor  necessary   to  bring                                                                    
production online.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Wilson asked  how  the  state would  measure                                                                    
hiring Alaskans.  He queried the detail  requirements of the                                                                    
reports.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Commissioner Fisher  replied that  there was  a conversation                                                                    
with DNR,  because they had  similar requirements  in place.                                                                    
He stated that it was the  intent to follow the lead of DNR.                                                                    
He  explained  that  DNR would  examine  how  the  companies                                                                    
hired,  where  the  ads were  posted,  and  the  recruitment                                                                    
policies.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
2:20:55 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Wilson referred  to the  2-year requirement.                                                                    
She asked when the 2-year period would begin.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Commissioner Fisher  indicated that the department  would be                                                                    
looking at  mid to late August   It would likely  take 90 to                                                                    
120 days  to issue the  bonds. The companies  were motivated                                                                    
to provide the plans in a timely matter.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Wilson   asked  the  commissioner   had  any                                                                    
concerns with the amendment.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Commissioner Fisher responded in the negative.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Alper wanted to further  clarify the timeline. He stated                                                                    
that  the  amendment  discussed application  for  the  lower                                                                    
discount rate. He looked at  the subsection (k) of the bill,                                                                    
which was the  location where companies would  say that they                                                                    
would  offer  their certificates  in  the  bond program.  He                                                                    
noted that there  was an examination of  whether the company                                                                    
sought  the better  discount rate.  He  remarked that  there                                                                    
would be  a process of  application before the  company went                                                                    
into production.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Guttenberg  added  that the  24  months  was                                                                    
outlined in the bill already.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Representative Kawasaki thanked the  maker of the amendment.                                                                    
He thought  it did  what the  committee wanted.  He wondered                                                                    
about the use of the QCEs.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
2:25:36 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Alper replied  that the department had  written the bill                                                                    
somewhat broadly, which showed  the indication of the intent                                                                    
to commit  the funds.  He remarked that  there was  a desire                                                                    
ensure knowing  the exact commitment.  He stressed  that the                                                                    
language seemed to meet the goal.  He did not have a problem                                                                    
with implementation.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Kawasaki wondered  whether there  was enough                                                                    
ability to provide production.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Alper relayed that the primary commitment that the                                                                          
company would reinvest the money.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Representative Wilson WITHDREW her OBJECTION.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
There being NO OBJECTION, NEW Amendment 4 was ADOPTED.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
2:28:27 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Seaton MOVED to ADOPT Amendment 2, 30-GH2863\A.31                                                                      
(Nauman, 4/27/18) (copy on file):                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     Page 6, line 12. following "them.":                                                                                        
          Insert "The corporation shall  publish a notice of                                                                    
          the adopted resolution."                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
     Page 7. following line 29:                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
          Insert a new section to read:                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
          "Sec. 37.18.110. Limitation  on judicial action. A                                                                    
          person may not bring  a judicial action to contest                                                                    
          the constitutionality or  validity of this chapter                                                                    
          or  the constitutionality  or validity  of a  bond                                                                    
          issued  and sold  under  this  chapter unless  the                                                                    
          action is  commenced in  a court  of the  state of                                                                    
          competent  jurisdiction within  45 days  after the                                                                    
          corporation    adopts     a    resolution    under                                                                    
          AS 37.18.060 authorizing the  issuance of bonds. A                                                                    
          person  that fails  to commence  an action  in the                                                                    
          time provided  under this  section is  barred from                                                                    
          commencing    an    action    to    contest    the                                                                    
          constitutionality  or validity  of  a bond  issued                                                                    
          and sold under this chapter."                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Representative Wilson OBJECTED.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Seaton reviewed the amendment.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Representative Wilson asked the attorney from the                                                                               
Department of Law to the table.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
2:30:05 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MARY GRAMLING, ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL, DEPARTMENT OF                                                                        
LAW, introduced herself.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Wilson  wondered  whether  the  state  could                                                                    
legally tell people that they could not sue.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Milks replied that, under  Article 2, Section 21, of the                                                                    
constitution,  referred  to  suits  against  the  state.  He                                                                    
deferred to Ms. Gramling.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Gramling furthered that she  had not found anything that                                                                    
would show that  it was not constitutional.  She shared that                                                                    
other states had similar structures  with dates ranging from                                                                    
30  to  60  days,  so  she felt  that  45  days  was  fairly                                                                    
reasonable.  She remarked  that there  were other  places in                                                                    
Alaska Statutes  that limited actions on  the legislature in                                                                    
the same manner.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Representative Wilson WITHDREW her OBJECTION.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair  Gara OBJECTED.  He  wondered  whether the  other                                                                    
states  had rulings  by the  highest  court that  determined                                                                    
that it was a valid exercise of state power.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Gramling replied that she  had not researched the extent                                                                    
of  other state  law,  but  stated that  a  number of  other                                                                    
states   had  similar   statutes  called   "bond  validation                                                                    
statutes."                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Gara  did not  hear Ms.  Gramling say  that there                                                                    
was a court precedent.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Gramling agreed, and stated  that she had not researched                                                                    
it extensively.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Gara  wanted the  amendment to  work. He  did not                                                                    
want to  double up the  concern that bonding costs  may have                                                                    
increased. He wondered whether there would be a problem.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Gramling had  not personally  read anything  that would                                                                    
give her pause on the issue.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
2:35:17 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair  Gara  asked  for   a  commitment  to  alert  the                                                                    
legislators of an increased bond cost.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Gramling responded  that it  was part  of her  job, and                                                                    
would let the sponsors know of an issue.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair  Gara wondered  whether  she  would research  the                                                                    
issue.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Gramling indicated  that she  would research  the issue                                                                    
and report if she saw a problem.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Gara WITHDREW his OBJECTION.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Representative Guttenberg asked if  the courts had heard the                                                                    
justification for waiting an extra 5 days.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Gramling responded that it  varied by case. She remarked                                                                    
that,  if  someone  missed  the  deadline,  there  would  be                                                                    
normally be an argument with justification.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Milks added  that in the context was  that another issue                                                                    
of the question of prospective rulings in a court decision.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
There being NO OBJECTION, Amendment 2 was ADOPTED.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Foster indicated a  conceptual amendment that would                                                                    
be forthcoming.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
2:40:17 PM                                                                                                                    
AT EASE                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
5:27:55 PM                                                                                                                    
RECONVENED                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Seaton MOVED to ADOPT Conceptual Amendment 11:                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     The intent of the amendment is that:                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     The  Corporation will  sunset on  the final  payment on                                                                    
     any  bond  or refunded  bond.  We  are going  to  allow                                                                    
     Legislative Legal  Services to determine where  it best                                                                    
     fits in the bill.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Representative Guttenberg queried the sunset time.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Representative Wilson replied  that it was at  the time when                                                                    
all the bonds were paid.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Seaton stated  that  they would  sunset after  the                                                                    
final payment on any bond or refunded bond.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
There  being  NO  OBJECTION,  Conceptual  Amendment  11  was                                                                    
ADOPTED.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Seaton  MOVED to  allow Legislative  Legal Services                                                                    
to  make technical  and conforming  adjustments  to HB  331.                                                                    
There being NO OBJECTION, it was so ordered.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Wilson   asked  when  the   committee  would                                                                    
convene to address the bill.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Foster  replied  that he  believed  the  committee                                                                    
would meet possibly on the upcoming Tuesday.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
5:30:05 PM                                                                                                                    
AT EASE                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
5:30:27 PM                                                                                                                    
RECONVENED                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Foster  stated that the  bill would be  drafted, so                                                                    
the earliest meeting would be Monday or Tuesday.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
HB  331  was  HEARD  and   HELD  in  committee  for  further                                                                    
consideration.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Foster acknowledged  Representative Dan  Sadler in                                                                    
the audience. He  indicated he would be  leaving the meeting                                                                    
open. He recessed the meeting to  a call of the chair [note:                                                                    
the meeting never reconvened].                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
ADJOURNMENT                                                                                                                   
5:31:31 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
The meeting was adjourned at 5:31 p.m.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                

Document Name Date/Time Subjects
HB 331 Amendment Packet.pdf HFIN 4/27/2018 9:00:00 AM
HB 331
HB 331 Letter re Alaska Tax Credit Certificate Bond Corporation Legislation.pdf HFIN 4/27/2018 9:00:00 AM
HB 331
HB 331 New Amendment.4.pdf HFIN 4/27/2018 9:00:00 AM
HB 331