Legislature(2017 - 2018)HOUSE FINANCE 519

04/25/2017 04:00 PM FINANCE

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Audio Topic
04:03:46 PM Start
04:05:27 PM HB177
04:21:50 PM HB74 HOUSE BILL NO. 74
04:55:21 PM Public Testimony
06:38:30 PM Adjourn
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
-- Recessed to a Call of the Chair --
+ HB 177 AQUATIC INVASIVE SPECIES TELECONFERENCED
Heard & Held
-- Testimony <Invitation Only> --
+= HB 74 DRIVER'S LICENSE & ID CARDS & REAL ID ACT TELECONFERENCED
Heard & Held
-- Public Testimony <Time Limit 2 Minutes> --
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+ Bills Previously Heard/Scheduled TELECONFERENCED
                  HOUSE FINANCE COMMITTEE                                                                                       
                      April 25, 2017                                                                                            
                         4:03 p.m.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
4:03 :46 PM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CALL TO ORDER                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Seaton  called the House Finance  Committee meeting                                                                    
to order at 4:03 p.m.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Representative Neal Foster, Co-Chair                                                                                            
Representative Paul Seaton, Co-Chair                                                                                            
Representative Les Gara, Vice-Chair                                                                                             
Representative Jason Grenn                                                                                                      
Representative David Guttenberg                                                                                                 
Representative Dan Ortiz                                                                                                        
Representative Lance Pruitt                                                                                                     
Representative Steve Thompson                                                                                                   
Representative Cathy Tilton                                                                                                     
Representative Tammie Wilson                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Representative Scott Kawasaki                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
ALSO PRESENT                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Geran Tarr,  Sponsor; Don  Etheridge, Alaska                                                                    
AFL-CIO, Juneau; Jerri Roe, Self,  Juneau; John Sonin, Self,                                                                    
Juneau;  Barbara  Huff-Tuckness, Teamsters,  Juneau;  Leslie                                                                    
Ridle,  Deputy Commissioner,  Department of  Administration;                                                                    
Representative  Gary  Knopp; Representative  Lora  Reinbold;                                                                    
Representative   Jonathan   Kreiss-Tomkins;   Representative                                                                    
DeLena Johnson.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
PRESENT VIA TELECONFERENCE                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Edward  Hasbrouck, Consultant,  The  Identity Project;  Joan                                                                    
Priestley  M.D.,  Director,  Institute for  Health  Renewal,                                                                    
Anchorage;   William  Harrington,   Self,  Anchorage;   Matt                                                                    
Flanders,  Citizen Council  for  Health Freedom,  Minnesota;                                                                    
Vince  Beltrami,  Alaska  AFL-CIO, Anchorage;  Becca  Brado,                                                                    
Project    Manager,     Fairbanks    Economic    Development                                                                    
Corporation,  Fairbanks;  Aves   Thompson,  Alaska  Trucking                                                                    
Association,  Anchorage;   Patrice  Lee,   Self,  Fairbanks;                                                                    
Daniel   Lynch,  Self,   Soldotna;  William   Warren,  Self,                                                                    
Nikiski; Mike  Coons, Self, Palmer;  Paul D.  Kendall, Self,                                                                    
Anchorage;  Bob Murphy,  Self, Kodiak;  Ross Mullins,  Self,                                                                    
Cordova;  Pam Goode,  Self,  Rural  Deltana; James  Squares,                                                                    
Self, Rural Deltana.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
SUMMARY                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
HB 74     DRIVER'S LICENSE & ID CARDS & REAL ID ACT                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
          HB 74 was HEARD and HELD in committee for further                                                                     
          consideration.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
HB 177    AQUATIC INVASIVE SPECIES                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
          HB 177 was HEARD and HELD in committee for                                                                            
          further consideration.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Seaton reviewed the meeting agenda.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE BILL NO. 177                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     "An Act  relating to the  response to, and  control of,                                                                    
     aquatic  invasive  species;  establishing  the  aquatic                                                                    
     invasive  species response  fund; and  relating to  the                                                                    
     provision   of  information   about  aquatic   invasive                                                                    
     species to users of the Alaska marine highway system."                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
4:05:27 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GERAN TARR,  SPONSOR,  introduced the  bill.                                                                    
She  shared  the bill  would  create  an infrastructure  for                                                                    
rapid  response to  an  aquatic  invasive species  outbreak,                                                                    
would create a fund  for invasive species response, directed                                                                    
the  Alaska   Marine  Highway  to  provide   information  to                                                                    
passengers  bringing  boats  to  Alaska,  and  directed  the                                                                    
Department  of  Motor  Vehicles to  provide  information  to                                                                    
Alaskans when  they registered their  boats. She  provided a                                                                    
document titled  Appendix G  that included  various examples                                                                    
of invasive  species (copy on  file). The first  example was                                                                    
didemnum vexillum  (d-vex). The second example  was elodea -                                                                    
a  western   waterweed.  The   third  slide   pictured  Reed                                                                    
canarygrass, and Northern  Pike and the Norway  rat were the                                                                    
fourth  and  fifth examples.  One  of  the reasons  for  the                                                                    
discussion  was  related to  the  cost  associated with  the                                                                    
outbreaks. She  provided examples  from the  Capital Budgets                                                                    
passed   in   FY13   and    FY14,   which   each   contained                                                                    
appropriations  used to  address invasive  species outbreaks                                                                    
in the  state. She spoke to  the two provisions of  the bill                                                                    
that   pertained  to   communication  surrounding   invasive                                                                    
species hitchhiking  on boats and float  planes. She pointed                                                                    
to  the bottom  left  hand cornet  of  the document  titled,                                                                    
"Help  Stop  the  Spread of  Aquatic  Invasives!"  (copy  on                                                                    
file), which  illustrated watercraft checkpoints.  She spoke                                                                    
of a major project taking  place in the Columbia River basin                                                                    
for a type  of invasive mussel, which was  estimated to cost                                                                    
hundreds of millions of dollars to address the problem.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
4:12:34 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Tarr  continued  to address  the  bill.  She                                                                    
relayed  that  her  goal  with the  legislation  was  to  be                                                                    
preventative in nature and provide  a bit of funding for the                                                                    
issue. She  relayed that  the potential  for the  problem to                                                                    
become expensive to the state  was great. She suggested that                                                                    
one way to  raise funds for the issue was  a $1 surcharge on                                                                    
boat registration.  She said that the  fiscal note reflected                                                                    
$5,000 for  production of materials for  distribution, which                                                                    
could involve  signage as well  as brochures. She  said that                                                                    
any excess revenue  could be used for  future outbreaks. She                                                                    
shared  that the  state of  Montana had  vehicle checkpoints                                                                    
where boats  were checked  and properly  cleaned for  a fee.                                                                    
She  lamented  that  the international  borders  surrounding                                                                    
Alaska limited  the state's  jurisdiction. She  related that                                                                    
state law required the registration  of all motorized boats,                                                                    
which  could provide  the opportunity  to check  vessels for                                                                    
hitchhikers. She said  that both the marine  highway and the                                                                    
DMV had  the potential to  assess fees, and  the legislature                                                                    
might  think about  allowing those  entities to  implement a                                                                    
surcharge.  She  stressed   that  prevention  and  immediate                                                                    
response  was  the  low-cost  alternative  to  a  full-blown                                                                    
invasion,  which could  impact  salmon  fisheries and  other                                                                    
recreational opportunities for Alaskans.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
4:16:09 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Foster  noted there  were several  people available                                                                    
for questions.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Representative Thompson thought the  bill should include the                                                                    
northern region of the state  as well. He relayed there were                                                                    
areas  of the  Chena River  that were  experiencing problems                                                                    
with Elodea.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Tarr recalled  that mechanical  controls had                                                                    
been  attempted in  the  Chena River  slough,  but had  been                                                                    
unsuccessful.  She agreed  that the  norther regions  of the                                                                    
state should be included in the conversation.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Representative Wilson directed  the committee's attention to                                                                    
Page 2, lines 1 through 4:                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     (b)  In responding  under (a)  of this  section to  the                                                                    
     occurrence   of  an   aquatic  invasive   species,  the                                                                    
     department may  apply for suspension of,  or emergency,                                                                    
     quarantine, public health,  crisis, or other exemptions                                                                    
     to, applicable environmental laws and regulations.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Representative Wilson asked where  the public input could be                                                                    
found under the sub-section.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative Tarr  replied that  the intent was  that some                                                                    
of  the   standard  procedures  would   not  apply   in  the                                                                    
circumstances defined  in the bill  because of the  need for                                                                    
an  immediate response.  She stressed  that  not having  the                                                                    
infrastructure readily  available could delay a  response by                                                                    
a year, which  would make the problem worse.  She added that                                                                    
the  language was  intended to  empower  the departments  to                                                                    
side-step   the   typical   public  process   in   emergency                                                                    
situations.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Representative Wilson shared that  chemicals were being used                                                                    
to fight invasive species in  the North Pole area, which had                                                                    
spurred concern for  the shallow wells in  the vicinity. She                                                                    
requested   information  on   what  would   qualify  as   an                                                                    
emergency, and she  voiced concern at the  truncating of the                                                                    
public process.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Representative Tarr replied that she  would follow up on the                                                                    
matter. She  relayed that  the bill  highlighted the  use of                                                                    
the least toxic  means possible as the  number one priority.                                                                    
She  hopes  that  chemical  controls   could  be  used  when                                                                    
mechanical  controls  did not  work,  but  that the  default                                                                    
would be to do the least harmful method first.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
4:20:13 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Wilson rebutted  that  least  toxic  in  her                                                                    
drinking water well was not sufficient.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Gara referred to Page 2, lines 20 through 23:                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     (f)  In responding  under (a)  of this  section to  the                                                                    
     occurrence of freshwater  aquatic invasive species, the                                                                    
     department  shall respond  in  a  manner determined  to                                                                    
     cause the  least harm  to noninvasive  fish populations                                                                    
     that   are  used   for   recreational,  personal   use,                                                                    
     commercial, or subsistence purposes                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Gara related that he  supported the least harmful                                                                    
response possible.  He said  that chemicals  could sometimes                                                                    
do more  harm than  good when  it came  to human  health. He                                                                    
understood that  the section could  allow for a  "no action"                                                                    
alternative. He requested  clarification from the Department                                                                    
of Fish and Game.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Representative   Tarr  replied   in  the   affirmative.  She                                                                    
elaborated   if  drinking   water   were  involved,   direct                                                                    
application of an herbicide would not be applied.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
HB  177  was  HEARD  and   HELD  in  committee  for  further                                                                    
consideration.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE BILL NO. 74                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     "An Act  relating to the implementation  of the federal                                                                    
     REAL  ID  Act of  2005;  and  relating to  issuance  of                                                                    
     identification   cards  and   driver's  licenses;   and                                                                    
     providing for an effective date."                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
4:21:50 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
EDWARD  HASBROUCK,  CONSULTANT,  THE IDENTITY  PROJECT  (via                                                                    
teleconference), provided detail  about the organization. He                                                                    
testified in  opposition to the  legislation. He  noted that                                                                    
his  concerns had  been  outline  in a  letter  sent to  the                                                                    
committee  (copy  on  file.)  He   spoke  to  the  cost  for                                                                    
compliance  with the  REAL-ID Act,  which he  contended were                                                                    
not included  in the  current fiscal  notes attached  to the                                                                    
bill. He  stated that the  Department of  Administration and                                                                    
the  Department   of  Motor  Vehicles  had   testified  that                                                                    
participation in the act would  require uploading all Alaska                                                                    
driver's  licenses  and  state   ID  cards  into  the  SPEXS                                                                    
database,  which  had been  developed  to  enable states  to                                                                    
comply  with the  data-sharing requirements  of the  REAL-ID                                                                    
Act. No  other system  exists or  is under  development that                                                                    
would enable  any state to comply  and none of the  costs of                                                                    
SPEXS  participation was  included in  the fiscal  notes. He                                                                    
lamented that  the costs associated with  the SPEXS database                                                                    
were  unknown. He  detailed  more of  his  concern with  the                                                                    
SPEXS database.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
4:26:12 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Hasbrouck  addressed the  issue  of  whether a  Real-ID                                                                    
would  be needed  to  pass  through Transportation  Security                                                                    
Administration  (TSA) checkpoints  at  airports. He  related                                                                    
that documents  released to the  organization by  TSA showed                                                                    
that on  average, 77,000  people each year    more  than 200                                                                    
per  day    passed through  TSA checkpoints  without showing                                                                    
ID.  Ninety-eight  percent  of the  would-be  travelers  who                                                                    
showed   up  at   TSA  checkpoints   without   ID  or   with                                                                    
"acceptable"   ID   could   board   these   flights,   after                                                                    
questioning that took  an average of between  seven and none                                                                    
minutes.  He furthered  that threats  by  the Department  of                                                                    
Homeland  Security (DHS),  TSA,  and  state officials  about                                                                    
what  Congress  will  do to  impose  new  requirements  were                                                                    
speculation and not based on any current of proposed law.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
4:31:23 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Hasbrouck  discussed how a  passport card compared  to a                                                                    
compliant  driver's license.  He asserted  that it  would be                                                                    
harder to acquire a compliant  Real ID that it currently was                                                                    
to get a passport. Mr. Hasbrouck  stated that to apply for a                                                                    
passport  card  if you  did  not  already have  a  passport,                                                                    
residents must  go to a  designated Post Office,  in person,                                                                    
with only one or two of the following documents:                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
1. Birth or naturalization  certificate or other evidence of                                                                    
U.S. citizenship                                                                                                                
2. Evidence  of your identity  (which can be provided  by an                                                                    
identifying witness)                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
He explained that to apply  for a compliant driver's license                                                                    
or state ID,  residents must go to a DMV  office, in person,                                                                    
with original copies of four documents:                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     1. Birth or naturalization certificate or other                                                                            
     evidence of U.S. citizenship                                                                                               
     2. Evidence of your identity (which must be in the                                                                         
     form of an ID card or document)                                                                                            
     3. Evidence of your residence in Alaska                                                                                    
     4. Original Social Security card                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Hasbrouck stated that a  passport card could be used for                                                                    
everything  that a  REAL-ID  could be  used  for except  for                                                                    
driving.  He lamented  that the  people that  would be  most                                                                    
adversely affected  by REAL-ID  Act compliance  included the                                                                    
elderly,  people who  were  born at  home,  people who  have                                                                    
moved far  from their place  of birth, and people  who could                                                                    
not afford  to wait  months to  obtain documents  from other                                                                    
states.  He  hoped  that  the  committee  would  reject  the                                                                    
legislation.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
4:33:23 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative Thompson  asked about  the need for  the REAL                                                                    
ID to  access military bases.  He opined that  the increased                                                                    
desire  for  passport cards  had  contributed  to long  wait                                                                    
periods for obtaining the cards.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Hasbrouck answered  that typically  in other  states it                                                                    
took   substantially   longer   to   get   compliant   state                                                                    
identification. He  hoped that  the legislature could  get a                                                                    
discretionary extension  from DHS,  but he added  that would                                                                    
only  postponed the  problem. He  said that  if the  federal                                                                    
government  followed  through  on the  threats  to  restrict                                                                    
unescorted access  to military  bases, people would  have to                                                                    
get either a compliant state ID or a passport card.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
4:35:48 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative Ortiz  believed the  issues for  The Identity                                                                    
Project  concerning   the  act   were  related   to  privacy                                                                    
concerns. He suggested that the  information was already out                                                                    
there for  most Alaskans,  and that  going to  REAL-ID would                                                                    
not jeopardize the privacy of Alaskans.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Hasbrouck  responded that  if a  person was  required to                                                                    
give their  information to a  government agency it  would be                                                                    
protected by  a variety  of laws. He  said that  because the                                                                    
SPEXS database was  being run by a contractor  for a private                                                                    
non-profit organization,  it was not subject  to the federal                                                                    
privacy act,  and none of the  protections of accountability                                                                    
and  transparency  were  in place  that  would  normally  be                                                                    
associated with  a government database.   He warned  that it                                                                    
could be possible for the  government to secretly demand the                                                                    
information found on  the SPEXS database. He  added that the                                                                    
system  had  limited  capacity to  update  information  that                                                                    
would be shared between states.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair   Gara  asked   for  clarification   on  required                                                                    
identification for airline travel.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Hasbrouck  explained that 98  percent of people  with no                                                                    
ID at all were allowed on planes.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair  Gara asked  about  the  TSA website  information                                                                    
that stated  that a driver's  license would  be unacceptable                                                                    
after January 1, 2018.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Hasbrouck answered that  the information was speculation                                                                    
based on  what the TSA  believed Congress might do.  He said                                                                    
that he had  heard sworn testimony from TSA  agents in court                                                                    
that  had stated  that the  information  was not  completely                                                                    
accurate.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Representative Wilson asked which of  the 20 state that were                                                                    
still  working   under  a  waiver   had  decided   to  enact                                                                    
legislation on the issue.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Hasbrouck  answered  that   at  least  40  states  were                                                                    
noncompliant. He said  that only the small  number of states                                                                    
participating   in   the   SPEXS  system   were   considered                                                                    
compliant.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
4:40:21 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Wilson  spoke  to  states  on  a  waiver  at                                                                    
present. She  wondered how many  states that had  received a                                                                    
waiver were working toward compliance.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Hasbrouck  thought  that   many  states  were  pursuing                                                                    
waivers  because  that  process  was  easier  than  becoming                                                                    
compliant.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Pruitt spoke  to the  June 6,  2017 deadline                                                                    
for military  base access. He  asked if Alaska was  the only                                                                    
state  with that  deadline. He  wondered  what other  states                                                                    
were doing to ensure people had  access to air travel and to                                                                    
military bases.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Hasbrouck  referred to the  date as a "threat  date" and                                                                    
not  a  deadline.  He  lamented  that  the  dates  had  been                                                                    
arbitrary and should be  subject to constitutional challenge                                                                    
for  denying  equal  protection to  residents  of  different                                                                    
states.  He  relayed  that  most  people  working  on  bases                                                                    
already had federal ID.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Pruitt  expressed  concern  that  the  state                                                                    
could be  "playing chicken" with the  federal government. He                                                                    
worried  that Alaskans  might lose  access to  employment on                                                                    
military  bases and  that  the state  could  lose access  to                                                                    
federal dollars  for being  non-compliant. He  wondered what                                                                    
ramifications the state would face for non-compliance.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
4:44:43 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Hasbrouck did  not believe there had  been another state                                                                    
that  had experienced  as much  potential adverse  impact as                                                                    
Alaska feared. He  said that he was  not suggesting "playing                                                                    
chicken" with the federal government.  He stated that if the                                                                    
federal  government was  threatening to  interfere with  the                                                                    
rights  of  Alaskans  then  the  state  should  prepare  for                                                                    
litigation. He  thought that  the state  should hold  off on                                                                    
capitulation  until   the  courts  determined   whether  the                                                                    
federal  government's  demands  were  backed  by  any  legal                                                                    
force.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Representative Pruitt argued that  Alaska did not have money                                                                    
to  litigate. There  were many  other challenges  facing the                                                                    
state.  He asked  if litigation  was the  only mechanism  to                                                                    
challenge the  act and he  wondered how the state  should go                                                                    
about it. He recalled being told  by the ACLU the prior week                                                                    
that  it  would  not  necessarily have  strong  standing  in                                                                    
court. He wondered what alternative  tools were available as                                                                    
an alternative to litigation. He  queried legal actions that                                                                    
could be taken by residents who could not litigate.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
4:48:11 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Hasbrouck responded  that if the state  could not afford                                                                    
to litigate  then it  could also  not afford  the open-ended                                                                    
costs associated with compliance with  the act. He said that                                                                    
it was likely  that the state would have  better standing in                                                                    
court  than  individual   Alaskans  because  federal  courts                                                                    
accepted the  standing of states  to assert  their residents                                                                    
interest in travel  as the basis for  federal challenges. He                                                                    
asserted  that  litigation,  rather than  compliance,  would                                                                    
cost less in the long term.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Representative Pruitt asked whether  there were other states                                                                    
looking to litigate.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Hasbrouck replied  that the  issue was  speculative. He                                                                    
elaborated  that he  had spoken  to  legislators from  other                                                                    
states that were exploring alternatives to compliance.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
4:51:44 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative Guttenberg asked whether  any states had been                                                                    
successful  in challenging  the  federal  government on  the                                                                    
matter.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Hasbrouck  answered that the  issue was critical  to the                                                                    
state. He  said that residents  should have the right  to do                                                                    
their jobs and  to move about the state and  country as they                                                                    
wished.  He relayed  that  the REAL-ID  Act  had an  initial                                                                    
schedule  of 3  years for  implementation starting  in 2005,                                                                    
and that  states had be  threatened with sanctions  for non-                                                                    
compliance  by 2008.  He related  that the  reason that  the                                                                    
sanctions  had  not be  imposed  on  any state  was  because                                                                    
states  had continued  to  resist;  the deadlines  currently                                                                    
being given  by the  federal government were  merely threats                                                                    
without validity. He shared that  there had been states that                                                                    
had been successful in bringing  lawsuits on behalf of their                                                                    
residents that  had resulted in injunctions  against some of                                                                    
the executive orders restricting travel and immigration.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
4:55:01 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Guttenberg  expressed  dissatisfaction  with                                                                    
Mr. Hasbrouck's answer.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
^PUBLIC TESTIMONY                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
4:55:21 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
DON ETHERIDGE,  ALASKA AFL-CIO, JUNEAU, spoke  in support of                                                                    
HB 74. He  emphasized the importance of  worker's being able                                                                    
to travel to work.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
4:56:52 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative Grenn  queried the  number of members  of the                                                                    
AFL-CIO.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Ethridge responded  that  there  were approximately  55                                                                    
thousand members in the state.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
4:57:09 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Gara  wondered about the expressed  difficulty of                                                                    
acquiring  a  passport  card  by   those  that  opposed  the                                                                    
legislation.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Ethridge  stated that  the concerns had  to do  with the                                                                    
length of time  to get an original passport,  and the length                                                                    
of  time for  replacement if  lost. He  said that  a REAL-ID                                                                    
could be replaced in a timely manner.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
4:58:20 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Pruitt thought  it was  possible to  receive                                                                    
two passports.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Ethridge was  unaware of the possibility  of getting two                                                                    
passports.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Foster  offered several reminders  regarding public                                                                    
testimony.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
4:59:34 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
JERRI ROE,  SELF, JUNEAU, spoke in  opposition of opposition                                                                    
of HB  74. She  had read  that by  2020, passports  would no                                                                    
longer  be  sufficient  for  air  travel  or  military  base                                                                    
access.  She   expressed  concern   that  travel   would  be                                                                    
restricted.  She  contended   that  the  federal  government                                                                    
should  not be  allowed to  give her  private identity  to a                                                                    
private company.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
5:02:09 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
JOHN SONIN, SELF,  JUNEAU, spoke in opposition of  HB 74. He                                                                    
was concerned with the possible limitations on air travel.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
5:05:40 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
BARBARA  HUFF-TUCKNESS,  TEAMSTERS,   JUNEAU,  testified  in                                                                    
favor of  the legislation.  She reiterated that  the REAL-ID                                                                    
was optional  and that  alternative choices  were available.                                                                    
She  listed  that  members of  her  organization  that  were                                                                    
already  required  to  have a  federally  required  driver's                                                                    
license.  She  understood  that people  were  concerned  for                                                                    
their right  to privacy. She  said that many  Alaskans would                                                                    
be impacted by the legislation.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Representative Wilson  wondered what would stop  the federal                                                                    
government from issuing more identification requirements.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Ms.   Huff-Tuckness  reiterated   her  statement   that  the                                                                    
legislation offered residents a choice not to participate.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Wilson  asked  whether  she  had  encouraged                                                                    
workers to apply for passports.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Huff-Tuckness replied  that there  had been  discussion                                                                    
about  the   issue.  She   furthered  that   passports  were                                                                    
expensive and  time consuming  to acquire.  She felt  that a                                                                    
system should  be in place  that every Alaskan  could access                                                                    
to  get an  ID in  a timely  manner. She  believed that  the                                                                    
state could offer  residents an ID that  was less expensive,                                                                    
but allowed for the opportunity to travel for work.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
5:12:10 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
JOAN   PRIESTLEY  M.D.,   DIRECTOR,  INSTITUTE   FOR  HEALTH                                                                    
RENEWAL, ANCHORAGE  (via teleconference), spoke  against the                                                                    
bill. She  asserted that  it was  currently possible  to fly                                                                    
and gain  access to  military bases  without identification.                                                                    
She  elaborated on  her concerns  about privacy  rights. She                                                                    
opined the  expense to  the state  for a  federally unfunded                                                                    
mandate.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
5:17:15 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
WILLIAM  HARRINGTON, SELF,  ANCHORAGE (via  teleconference),                                                                    
testified  in opposition  to the  legislation. He  expressed                                                                    
concern for the right to privacy.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
5:19:08 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MATT   FLANDERS,  CITIZEN   COUNCIL   FOR  HEALTH   FREEDOM,                                                                    
MINNESOTA   (via   teleconference),    spoke   against   the                                                                    
legislation.   He  reiterated   the  concerns   of  previous                                                                    
testifiers.  He argued  that  the act  did  not protect  the                                                                    
country from  terrorism, but created  a new set  of problems                                                                    
surrounding data security. He  said that Alaska had received                                                                    
$684,000  in  2011  under   the  National  Driver's  License                                                                    
Security  Grants Program.  He  wondered what  had been  done                                                                    
with the funds.  He urged the committee to  vote against the                                                                    
bill.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
5:22:54 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Wilson requested  further information  about                                                                    
the grant.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Flanders said that he would provide the information.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
5:23:33 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
VINCE    BELTRAMI,    ALASKA   AFL-CIO,    ANCHORAGE    (via                                                                    
teleconference), spoke  in favor of the  bill. He understood                                                                    
that there  most states were working  toward compliance with                                                                    
the act. He  asserted that it was not up  to base commanders                                                                    
to  choose  which  identification  could be  used  to  enter                                                                    
military bases.  He thought that  those that  currently flew                                                                    
without  ID  were  subject  to  more  intense  screening  at                                                                    
airports, and that soon flying  without a compliant ID would                                                                    
not  be  allowed  beginning  2018.   He  worried  about  the                                                                    
civilians that needed to access  military bases for work. He                                                                    
believed that requiring Alaskans to  get a passport to go to                                                                    
work was cumbersome, expensive,  and ignored the possibility                                                                    
that  there  were  some  workers  who  could  not  obtain  a                                                                    
passport. He reiterated that  compliance was voluntary under                                                                    
the legislation.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
5:27:52 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
BECCA   BRADO,    PROJECT   MANAGER,    FAIRBANKS   ECONOMIC                                                                    
DEVELOPMENT  CORPORATION,  FAIRBANKS  (via  teleconference),                                                                    
testified in support of the  legislation. She stated that if                                                                    
people did  not have  REAL ID they  could be  accompanied on                                                                    
base; however,  the base had  5,000 visitors monthly  and it                                                                    
was unrealistic to think that  they would all be accompanied                                                                    
by an escort  with access. She spoke to the  lengthy time it                                                                    
took  to get  a passport.  She stressed  that the  state had                                                                    
worked  extremely  hard  to get  construction  contracts  on                                                                    
bases, and the funds  that accompanied them, and underscored                                                                    
that the state needed to live  up to its end of the bargain.                                                                    
She did not want to potentially deny people work.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Wilson noted  that the  committee had  heard                                                                    
about  Minnesota and  Missouri being  noncompliant and  that                                                                    
people were still able to gain access to military bases.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Brado  answered  she did  not  have  information  about                                                                    
Minnesota.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Representative Wilson  asked whether the  testifier believed                                                                    
that bases in Minnesota were breaking the federal law.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Brado  maintained that  she  could  not speak  to  that                                                                    
question.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Gara  referred to testimony from  opposition that                                                                    
it would be possible for a  person to obtain a passport card                                                                    
if  they  did not  want  a  REAL-ID.  He asked  whether  the                                                                    
testifier  knew if  it took  longer to  get a  passport card                                                                    
than a REAL-ID.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Brado answered that it was  a minimum of 4 weeks waiting                                                                    
time  for an  appointment in  Fairbanks,  and 6  to 8  weeks                                                                    
beyond that to receive the  passport card. She believed that                                                                    
REAL-ID card would be issued more quickly.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
5:32:09 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
AVES THOMPSON,  ALASKA TRUCKING ASSOCIATION,  ANCHORAGE (via                                                                    
teleconference), testified  in favor  of the bill.  He spoke                                                                    
to commercial  driver's license  requirements. He  said that                                                                    
military installations  were governed by federal  rules, and                                                                    
that  after  June  2017,  people   would  need  a  federally                                                                    
recognized  form   of  identification  to  gain   access  to                                                                    
military bases. He urged the committee to pass the bill.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
5:34:39 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
PATRICE   LEE,   SELF,   FAIRBANKS   (via   teleconference),                                                                    
testified in support of the bill.  She did not like the idea                                                                    
that a national organization that  she could not contact had                                                                    
her  personal  information.  She   shared  that  her  mother                                                                    
received  healthcare from  Joint Base  Elmendorf-Richardson,                                                                    
and expressed concern  that she might not be able  to get on                                                                    
the base quickly if her  mother had a medical emergency. She                                                                    
noted that the  bill offered a choice, and  thought the bill                                                                    
offered a good compromise to the issue.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
5:37:08 PM                                                                                                                    
DANIEL   LYNCH,   SELF,   SOLDOTNA   (via   teleconference),                                                                    
testified in opposition to the  bill, and stressed the right                                                                    
to  privacy under  the  constitution. He  said  that he  had                                                                    
worked  at Fort  Greely several  times, and  under different                                                                    
private employers.  He stated that the  employers had vetted                                                                    
him  upon  employment.  He   worried  about  the  unintended                                                                    
consequences of the legislation.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
5:39:39 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
WILLIAM  WARREN, SELF,  NIKISKI (via  teleconference), spoke                                                                    
against the bill.  He offered a personal  history of working                                                                    
travel in the state.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
5:41:32 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MIKE  COONS, SELF,  PALMER  (via teleconference),  testified                                                                    
against the bill.  He said that he understood  how access to                                                                    
military bases worked. He said  that any non-military person                                                                    
seeking  access  to  a  base would  not  be  granted  access                                                                    
without a sponsor. He stated  that commanders made policy as                                                                    
to access,  and if  the state  did not  comply with  the act                                                                    
commanders  would not  stop needed  workers from  getting to                                                                    
their  job sites.  He assumed  that if  airlines suffered  a                                                                    
loss of  passengers because  of the  state's non-compliance,                                                                    
the   airlines  would   urge  the   federal  government   to                                                                    
reconsider    its    actions     well    before    mandatory                                                                    
implementation.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
5:44:31 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
PAUL  D.  KENDALL,  SELF,  ANCHORAGE  (via  teleconference),                                                                    
spoke favor of the bill.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Foster  recognized Representative Lora  Reinbold in                                                                    
the audience.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
5:49:09 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
BOB MURPHY, SELF, KODIAK  (via teleconference), testified in                                                                    
support  of   the  legislation.   He  reiterated   that  the                                                                    
legislation offered Alaskans a choice.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
5:51:18 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
ROSS MULLINS, SELF,  CORDOVA (via teleconference), testified                                                                    
in  support of  the legislation.  He shared  that he  was no                                                                    
longer driving due to his  poor vision. He continued that he                                                                    
had  traveled  for  surgery  the prior  year  and  had  been                                                                    
required to  receive a state  ID. He wanted  the legislature                                                                    
to  ensure  state IDs  were  qualifying  under the  act.  He                                                                    
shared that he had no  fear his information would be misused                                                                    
any more than was already currently possible.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
5:55:08 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair  Gara  relayed  that  it  would  be  possible  to                                                                    
receive a REAL ID compliant state ID.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Seaton  referred to questions related  to Minnesota                                                                    
and  whether  the state  was  compliant.  He referred  to  a                                                                    
handout titled  "Current Status of  States/Territories" from                                                                    
the Department of Homeland Security  website (copy on file).                                                                    
He  said that  Minnesota currently  had an  enhanced ID  and                                                                    
federal  officials were  continuing  to  accept enhanced  ID                                                                    
from non-compliant states.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
5:56:19 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
PAM  GOODE,   SELF,  RURAL  DELTANA   (via  teleconference),                                                                    
testified against  the bill. She  believed that the  act was                                                                    
unconstitutional. She  said that the fiscal  impact would be                                                                    
detrimental to the state.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
5:59:26 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
JAMES  SQUYRES, SELF,  RURAL  DELTANA (via  teleconference),                                                                    
spoke against  the bill. He stated  the legislation violated                                                                    
the  state constitution  and carried  a $1.5  million fiscal                                                                    
note. He  felt that  most people  already had  passports and                                                                    
that requiring a REAL ID would be redundant.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Foster  recognized  that  Representative  Jonathan                                                                    
Kreiss-Tomkins had been present in the audience.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
6:02:47 PM                                                                                                                    
AT EASE                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
6:32:18 PM                                                                                                                    
RECONVENED                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Foster CLOSED public testimony.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Wilson stated  that she  had researched  the                                                                    
enhanced  ID   available  in   Minnesota,  which   had  been                                                                    
available prior to the REAL-ID  Act. She said that even with                                                                    
the enhanced Ids, the state  was considered non-compliant by                                                                    
the  federal   government.  She   felt  that   the  language                                                                    
concerning  necessary  changes  in state  statute  for  non-                                                                    
compliant IDs  had been clearer  in the  governor's original                                                                    
bill.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
LESLIE   RIDLE,    DEPUTY   COMMISSIONER,    DEPARTMENT   OF                                                                    
ADMINISTRATION, did  not believe  it was  the intent  of the                                                                    
House  State  Affairs  Committee  to  eliminate  the  choice                                                                    
between  a compliant  and  non-compliant  ID. She  explained                                                                    
that  all  DMV  regulations  had   to  be  approved  by  the                                                                    
legislature.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative Wilson said she  would submit her question to                                                                    
the sponsor in writing.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
6:36:27 PM                                                                                                                    
AT EASE                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
6:37:06 PM                                                                                                                    
RECONVENED                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
HB  74  was   HEARD  and  HELD  in   committee  for  further                                                                    
consideration.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Foster addressed housekeeping.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Seaton asked for clarification.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Foster noted  that amendments  to the  legislation                                                                    
were due  on Friday, April 28  at 5:00 p.m. He  recessed the                                                                    
meeting  to a  call of  the chair  [note: the  meeting never                                                                    
reconvened].                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
ADJOURNMENT                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
6:38:30 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
The meeting was adjourned at 6:38 p.m.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                

Document Name Date/Time Subjects
HB74_Support_042417.pdf HFIN 4/25/2017 4:00:00 PM
HB 74
HB 74 - Document in Support Joint Armed Services transcript.pdf HFIN 4/25/2017 4:00:00 PM
HB 74
HB 74 JBER Flier re base access. 4.25.17.pdf HFIN 4/25/2017 4:00:00 PM
HB 74
HB 74Alaska-REAL-ID-finance-25APR2017.pdf HFIN 4/25/2017 4:00:00 PM
HB 74
HB74_Amend_042517.pdf HFIN 4/25/2017 4:00:00 PM
HB 74
HB74_Oppose_042517.pdf HFIN 4/25/2017 4:00:00 PM
HB 74
HB74_Support_042517.pdf HFIN 4/25/2017 4:00:00 PM
HB 74
HB177 Supporting Document - Article Peninsula Clarion 4.25.17.pdf HFIN 4/25/2017 4:00:00 PM
HB 177
HB 177 Supporting Document.pdf HFIN 4/25/2017 4:00:00 PM
HB 177
HB 74 Supporting Document Current Status of States Homeland Security.pdf HFIN 4/25/2017 4:00:00 PM
HB 74
HB 74 Alaska S2S Verification Services Agreement.pdf HFIN 4/25/2017 4:00:00 PM
HB 74
HB 74 H FIN follow up re AAMVA 4.25.17.pdf HFIN 4/25/2017 4:00:00 PM
HB 74
CS HB 74 (STA) Summary of Changes.pdf HFIN 4/25/2017 4:00:00 PM
HB 74