Legislature(2017 - 2018)HOUSE FINANCE 519

03/28/2017 01:30 PM FINANCE

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01:36:15 PM Start
01:37:02 PM HB115
02:29:56 PM Adjourn
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
Heard & Held
+ Bills Previously Heard/Scheduled TELECONFERENCED
Dept. of Revenue Fiscal Notes by Brandon Spanos,
Deputy Director, Tax Div., Dept. of Revenue
                  HOUSE FINANCE COMMITTEE                                                                                       
                      March 28, 2017                                                                                            
                         1:36 p.m.                                                                                              
1:36:15 PM                                                                                                                    
CALL TO ORDER                                                                                                                 
Co-Chair Foster called the House Finance Committee meeting                                                                      
to order at 1:36 p.m.                                                                                                           
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
Representative Neal Foster, Co-Chair                                                                                            
Representative Paul Seaton, Co-Chair                                                                                            
Representative Les Gara, Vice-Chair                                                                                             
Representative Jason Grenn                                                                                                      
Representative David Guttenberg                                                                                                 
Representative Scott Kawasaki                                                                                                   
Representative Dan Ortiz                                                                                                        
Representative Lance Pruitt                                                                                                     
Representative Cathy Tilton                                                                                                     
Representative Tammie Wilson                                                                                                    
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
Representative Steve Thompson                                                                                                   
ALSO PRESENT                                                                                                                  
Brandon S. Spanos, Deputy Director, Tax Division,                                                                               
Department of Revenue; Representative Chris Birch.                                                                              
PRESENT VIA TELECONFERENCE                                                                                                    
HB 115    INCOME TAX; PFD CREDIT; PERM FUND INCOME                                                                              
          HB 115 was HEARD and HELD in committee for                                                                            
          further consideration.                                                                                                
Co-Chair Foster reviewed the agenda for the day.                                                                                
HOUSE BILL NO. 115                                                                                                            
     "An  Act  relating  to  the  permanent  fund  dividend;                                                                    
     relating  to the  appropriation of  certain amounts  of                                                                    
     the earnings reserve account;  relating to the taxation                                                                    
     of  income  of  individuals;   relating  to  a  payment                                                                    
     against the  individual income  tax from  the permanent                                                                    
     fund  dividend  disbursement;   repealing  tax  credits                                                                    
     applied  against  the  tax  on  individuals  under  the                                                                    
     Alaska  Net  Income  Tax  Act;  and  providing  for  an                                                                    
     effective date."                                                                                                           
1:37:02 PM                                                                                                                    
BRANDON   S.   SPANOS,   DEPUTY  DIRECTOR,   TAX   DIVISION,                                                                    
DEPARTMENT  OF REVENUE,  addressed  two  questions from  the                                                                    
previous day.                                                                                                                   
Co-Chair  Foster   interjected  that   Representative  Birch                                                                    
joined the meeting.                                                                                                             
Mr. Spanos  continued that the  first question was  posed by                                                                    
Representative   Pruitt   regarding   S   Corporations.   He                                                                    
indicated that  there was  no change in  the treatment  of S                                                                    
Corporations. He noted that S  Corporations were taxed under                                                                    
the previous  version, however, the  current version  of the                                                                    
bill provided more clarity on  how to identify the source of                                                                    
its income.  He identified AS  43.19 and AS  43.20 regarding                                                                    
the  multi  state  tax  compact referenced  in  HB  115  and                                                                    
delineated  that  the  sections  identified  how  to  source                                                                    
Alaskan  income.   He  added  that   the  bill  put   the  S                                                                    
Corporations "on the same playing  field as any corporation"                                                                    
in  the  state.  For most  corporations,  Alaskan  property,                                                                    
payroll,  and  sales,  were  accounted  for  over  property,                                                                    
payroll,  and   sales  in  other   places  and   created  an                                                                    
apportioned  formula  that  determined  Alaskan  income.  He                                                                    
likened the process  to the state taking a slice  of a large                                                                    
pie. He offered  that income from S  Corporations was passed                                                                    
through to the  individual and the same  formula was applied                                                                    
to  determine the  Alaskan slice  of the  income. Otherwise,                                                                    
"there were  many games corporations could  play" to exclude                                                                    
income the  state would tax  as Alaskan under  C Corporation                                                                    
Co-Chair Foster  relayed that Mr. Spanos  would be reviewing                                                                    
the fiscal notes on Thursday.                                                                                                   
Mr. Spanos concluded  that the current version of  HB 115 in                                                                    
relation  to  S  Corporations  and  Partnerships  identified                                                                    
Alaska  sourced income  from  multi  state or  multinational                                                                    
corporations   or   partnerships.   Without   the   specific                                                                    
language,  litigation could  result  and  the Department  of                                                                    
Revenue  (DOR) would  have difficulty  in administering  the                                                                    
1:41:55 PM                                                                                                                    
Representative Pruitt  asked whether an S  Corporation would                                                                    
pay tax  on all its  earning or only the  amount distributed                                                                    
to individuals.  Mr. Spanos  relayed that  ultimately paying                                                                    
the  tax was  the individual's  responsibility. A  provision                                                                    
allowed the S Corporation to  pay on the individuals behalf.                                                                    
He detailed  that the  S Corporation  provided the  K-1 form                                                                    
that   identified  the   shareholders  distributive   share.                                                                    
Representative Pruitt  was trying  to understand what  the S                                                                    
Corporation  would  have to  file  since  the income  was  a                                                                    
"passthrough." He  wondered why the state  would mandate the                                                                    
S  Corporation to  file a  return if  the shareholders  were                                                                    
filing. Mr. Spanos did not see  a provision in the bill that                                                                    
required   a    separate   filing   for    S   Corporations.                                                                    
Representative   Pruitt  related   that   he  had   received                                                                    
questions from constituents  regarding S Corporation filing.                                                                    
He  concluded from  Mr. Spanos'  answer that  S Corporations                                                                    
would  not  be  required  under  the  bill  to  do  anything                                                                    
different or  additional than  currently required.  He asked                                                                    
for  reassurance. Mr.  Spanos indicated  that Representative                                                                    
Pruitt was correct.                                                                                                             
1:45:23 PM                                                                                                                    
Co-Chair Seaton clarified that if  an S Corporation retained                                                                    
money rather  than distributing it to  shareholders it would                                                                    
not  be liable  to pay  a  tax or  file a  form. Mr.  Spanos                                                                    
confirmed Co-Chair Seaton was correct.                                                                                          
Representative Wilson  wanted to  better understand  how the                                                                    
tax affected  an Alaskan trust  versus a  nonresident trust.                                                                    
Mr.  Spanos   informed  the   committee  that   trusts  were                                                                    
complicated.  He  delineated  that  a  trust  created  by  a                                                                    
resident would  not be different  than a trust created  by a                                                                    
nonresident.  Representative Wilson  believed that  the bill                                                                    
taxed   residential   trusts   and   nonresidential   trusts                                                                    
differently. She reported that the  state had "done a lot of                                                                    
work in the  last few years" trying  to attract out-of-state                                                                    
trusts  to boost  Alaskan banks.  She  ascertained that  the                                                                    
lack of an income tax  and the state's flexible banking laws                                                                    
were the  major attractants for nonresident  trusts. She was                                                                    
trying  to  figure  out how  out-of-state  trusts  would  be                                                                    
affected by the  proposed tax and whether  the earning would                                                                    
be taxed. Mr. Spanos responded  that at a "very basic level"                                                                    
an individual resident could simply  place assets in a trust                                                                    
to avoid  paying a  tax if resident  trusts were  not taxed.                                                                    
The  department's consultant  recommended taxing  all trusts                                                                    
"to avoid  any games"  by broadening  the base  and lowering                                                                    
the  rate. The  administration had  heard feedback  favoring                                                                    
the state's  treatment of  trusts that  provided protections                                                                    
from creditors and  other protections as well  as offering a                                                                    
tax haven  due to the repeal  of the income tax.  He relayed                                                                    
that the protections were still  in place under the proposed                                                                    
income  tax. He  interpreted that  the bill  would only  tax                                                                    
Alaskan  sourced income  on  nonresident  trusts and  trusts                                                                    
managed outside the state would not be a resident trust.                                                                        
1:50:16 PM                                                                                                                    
Representative  Wilson   asked  how  much  money   had  been                                                                    
invested in  trusts in  the state. Mr.  Spanos did  not know                                                                    
the answer to her question.  He added that trusts received a                                                                    
deduction for  the amount it distributed;  if it distributed                                                                    
all its  income it  owed zero tax.  He concluded  that trust                                                                    
tax was based  not on its assets but how  much earned income                                                                    
that remained after  distributions each year. Representative                                                                    
Wilson provided a hypothetical scenario  of being a resident                                                                    
of Alabama with a trust  in Alaska. She inquired whether the                                                                    
trust paid the proposed state  income tax on its earnings if                                                                    
the trust made  money in the state. Mr.  Spanos responded in                                                                    
the  negative but  clarified the  trust would  pay a  tax on                                                                    
earnings  from assets  held in  the  state. He  communicated                                                                    
that the  earnings were not subject  to a tax if  the income                                                                    
was earned through  securities or some other  asset that was                                                                    
not  held   in  Alaska  but   was  managed  it   the  state.                                                                    
Representative Wilson  asked whether  she would be  taxed on                                                                    
earnings if she had a  trust comprised of only securities in                                                                    
the  state.  Mr.  Spanos  replied  in  the  affirmative  and                                                                    
offered  that  as  a  resident  any  income  from  a  trust,                                                                    
regardless  of   where  it  was  located   would  be  taxed.                                                                    
Representative  Wilson deduced  that "it  would be  smarter"                                                                    
for  a resident  to maintain  a  trust in  another state  to                                                                    
avoid  taxes. Mr.  Spanos answered  that distributions  from                                                                    
the  trust  would still  be  taxed  regardless of  location.                                                                    
However,  if the  trust held  the  distributions income  tax                                                                    
would not be  owed. He furthered that Alaska  was a "current                                                                    
destination" for trusts  because of the lack  of income tax.                                                                    
Representative  Wilson asked  whether the  trust was  liable                                                                    
for state  income tax if  the trust was profitable,  but the                                                                    
income was  not distributed.  Mr. Spanos responded  that the                                                                    
answer  depended  on where  the  assets  in the  trust  were                                                                    
located. He  indicated that if  the trust  was "non-Alaskan"                                                                    
without  any Alaskan  assets the  trust would  not be  taxed                                                                    
under  the proposed  income  tax  and if  it  was housed  in                                                                    
another state without an income tax.                                                                                            
1:53:35 PM                                                                                                                    
Representative Wilson  discerned that the earnings  from the                                                                    
original income forming the trust  would be taxed in Alaska,                                                                    
but if she  subsequently moved the trust to  a place without                                                                    
an income tax and did not  take a distribution she would not                                                                    
owe any tax. Mr. Spanos  thought that a trust attorney would                                                                    
advise  her to  do so  but whether  the move  was beneficial                                                                    
depended  on other  factors. Representative  Wilson remarked                                                                    
that it seemed  that Alaskans would be  penalized for having                                                                    
a trust in  the state because the  bill favored out-of-state                                                                    
trusts. She  thought that Alaskans  would move  their trusts                                                                    
to more  favorable tax regimes.  She had a problem  with the                                                                    
provision.   She  thought   it   was  not   fair  to   treat                                                                    
nonresidents more favorably than residents.                                                                                     
Co-Chair Seaton  interjected that an Alaskan  resident would                                                                    
pay a tax on income no  matter where it was derived from. He                                                                    
emphasized   that  an   Alaskan   resident   would  pay   an                                                                    
apportionment of taxes  to another state with  an income tax                                                                    
on income  earned or assets held  in the other state.  If an                                                                    
Alaskan earned  money in a  state without an income  tax the                                                                    
earnings  were only  taxable in  Alaska  under the  proposed                                                                    
income tax. He  offered that if an Alaskan  earned income in                                                                    
a state  with an income  tax a  credit was earned  under the                                                                    
multi-state compact  for the taxes  paid to the  state where                                                                    
the income was derived from.                                                                                                    
Representative   Wilson  expressed   confusion  and   wanted                                                                    
clarification. She  provided the  example of  establishing a                                                                    
trust  with a  stock  and  bond portfolio  in  the State  of                                                                    
Delaware;  a state  without an  income tax  and she  did not                                                                    
take a distribution.  She understood that since  she did not                                                                    
take a  distribution she was  not subject to tax  in Alaska.                                                                    
She furthered  that if  she maintained  the trust  in Alaska                                                                    
she would be  taxed even if she did not  take a distribution                                                                    
under  HB  115.  Mr. Spanos  responded  that  Representative                                                                    
Wilson would not  be taxed but the trust would  be taxed. He                                                                    
agreed that if there were  no Alaskan assets in her Delaware                                                                    
trust,   the  trust   was   "a  form   of   a  tax   haven."                                                                    
Representative Wilson reiterated  her concerns regarding the                                                                    
legislation   maintaining  the   favorable  tax   haven  for                                                                    
nonresidents  while  taxing  resident trusts.  She  believed                                                                    
that  it would  now be  more advantageous  for residents  to                                                                    
take trusts out of state  while the state was simultaneously                                                                    
encouraging nonresident trusts.                                                                                                 
1:59:13 PM                                                                                                                    
Representative   Pruitt   conveyed    questions   from   his                                                                    
constituents. He  asked whether expenses related  to a small                                                                    
business  were  a write  off.  Mr.  Spanos answered  in  the                                                                    
affirmative and  explained that it  was similar to  filing a                                                                    
federal  return. Representative  Pruitt asked  about taxable                                                                    
amounts on  IRA distributions and pensions.  He wondered how                                                                    
Mr. Spanos thought the provisions  regarding the items would                                                                    
drive  the  decisions  of senior  residents  on  whether  to                                                                    
reside  in  the  state  or  to leave.  He  spoke  to  taxing                                                                    
pensions and IRAs and asked "how  big of a burden" the taxes                                                                    
would  place on  seniors. Mr.  Spanos could  not answer  the                                                                    
question and  added that  the department  did not  obtain an                                                                    
economic study on  the issue. He indicated  that some states                                                                    
had an exemption  or credits for seniors  or other measures.                                                                    
Representative Pruitt  was interested how  taxing retirement                                                                    
income would  affect some of  the seniors under  the poverty                                                                    
line. He  reported that  according to  the Council  on Aging                                                                    
the state  had the fastest  growing rate of  senior citizens                                                                    
in  the  country  and  wanted  to  understand  the  economic                                                                    
impacts  of a  tax.  He also  asked  about medical  expenses                                                                    
being "under  the AGI (adjusted  gross income) line"  on the                                                                    
proposed state  income tax.  He understood  that significant                                                                    
medical expenses were not deductible  under the state income                                                                    
tax. Mr. Spanos replied in the affirmative.                                                                                     
2:03:08 PM                                                                                                                    
Vice-Chair  Gara  referred  to the  comments  regarding  low                                                                    
income  seniors. He  reminded  the committee  that the  bill                                                                    
exempted  income below  $14.3 thousand  per individual.  Mr.                                                                    
Spanos agreed with the  statement. Vice-Chair Gara indicated                                                                    
that for each $1 thousand dollars  of income the tax was 2.5                                                                    
percent.  He asked  whether the  statement was  correct. Mr.                                                                    
Spanos  indicated Vice-Chair  Gara  was correct.  Vice-Chair                                                                    
Gara asked whether  and Alaskan who wanted to  remain in the                                                                    
state but  avoid a  tax on their  trust would  "locate their                                                                    
trust in one of the nine  states without an income tax." Mr.                                                                    
Spanos  replied in  the affirmative  and qualified  that the                                                                    
trust could  also be in one  of the states that  did not tax                                                                    
trusts  and  in  both  instances the  trust  could  only  be                                                                    
comprised of  "non-sourcable assets" such as  securities and                                                                    
bonds. Vice-Chair Gara voiced that  "he had no idea what the                                                                    
trust industry was in the  state" and never received a clear                                                                    
explanation. He  supposed that whoever  "made money"  on the                                                                    
trust  industry  in  the  state would  pay  taxes  on  their                                                                    
income. Mr. Spanos responded  in the affirmative. Vice-Chair                                                                    
Gara inquired whether  the bill would tax the  income from a                                                                    
New York  resident who  had their  trust managed  in Alaska.                                                                    
Mr. Spanos indicated that was the intent of the bill.                                                                           
2:05:50 PM                                                                                                                    
Vice-Chair  Gara  noted that  historically  in  the state  S                                                                    
Corporations,   Limited  Liability   Companies  (LLC),   and                                                                    
Partnerships   were    taxed   through    distributions   to                                                                    
individuals.  He queried  whether when  the state  abolished                                                                    
its  income tax,  these types  of businesses  were currently                                                                    
not taxed  except for C  Corporations. Mr.  Spanos responded                                                                    
Co-Chair  Seaton  clarified  that a  married  couple  filing                                                                    
jointly would  not pay a tax  if their income was  under $30                                                                    
thousand.  Mr.  Spanos   responded  affirmatively.  Co-Chair                                                                    
Seaton asked  how administering the  state income  tax would                                                                    
burden the department in relation  "to the earlier version."                                                                    
Mr. Spanos  relayed that "the burden  was significant either                                                                    
way."  The newest  version was  more specific  and directive                                                                    
than the  previous version that  was based on  a progressive                                                                    
tax.  He delineated  that the  current version  of the  bill                                                                    
identified  Alaska sourced  income  for non-residents  which                                                                    
provided  clarity   and  specified  how  to   apportion  and                                                                    
allocate  the income.  The previous  version  was vague  and                                                                    
would  have forced  the  department  to develop  regulations                                                                    
which  were  out of  the  scope  of  DOR's authority  or  to                                                                    
rebuild  the individual's  federal return  to determine  the                                                                    
tax.  The current  version  was  "significantly simpler"  to                                                                    
administer. He  specified that the information  necessary to                                                                    
determine the tax on Alaska  sourced income used the federal                                                                    
AGI and  the Alaska sourced  income and applied  the defined                                                                    
factor to  a tax bracket that  was the same as  a resident's                                                                    
tax bracket. The formula, called  the "Cal Method of Taxing"                                                                    
was   developed   in   California.  The   method   withstood                                                                    
substantial litigation and was  deemed valid. He favored the                                                                    
new version that "made many issues black and white."                                                                            
2:10:19 PM                                                                                                                    
Co-Chair  Seaton wondered  about audits.  He suggested  that                                                                    
since the tax  was based on the AGI the  state could rely on                                                                    
federal  Internal Revenue  Service  (IRS)  audits. He  asked                                                                    
whether he  was correct. Mr.  Spanos replied that  using the                                                                    
AGI  enabled DOR  to rely  on the  IRS return,  even if  the                                                                    
return  was not  audited. He  noted  that the  state or  IRS                                                                    
could  perform an  audit. He  shared that  the chance  of an                                                                    
audit incentivized correct self-reporting  and for those who                                                                    
were  audited, DOR  was highly  confident  that the  returns                                                                    
would  be accurate.  He indicated  that a  provision in  the                                                                    
bill required an individual to file  a new return if the IRS                                                                    
altered  their  tax  return.   The  state  currently  shared                                                                    
information  with the  IRS regarding  C Corporations,  which                                                                    
could easily include individual  tax payers. Co-Chair Seaton                                                                    
noted  the difficulty  for the  state to  hire auditors.  He                                                                    
wondered  whether more  auditors  would be  available to  do                                                                    
individual income tax audits versus  oil and gas tax audits.                                                                    
Mr. Spanos answered  that the topic was  under discussion by                                                                    
the  department.  He  reported  that there  were  many  more                                                                    
people  that had  experience in  the  individual income  tax                                                                    
realm.  However, if  the income  tax was  instituted, income                                                                    
tax preparers  would make more  money in the  private sector                                                                    
with the  increased business in  the state. He  guessed that                                                                    
the scenario  might make it  challenging for  the department                                                                    
to find  qualified individuals. He conjectured  that out-of-                                                                    
state  individual  income  tax  preparers,  accountants,  or                                                                    
auditors  would be  easier to  recruit than  oil and  gas or                                                                    
corporate auditors.                                                                                                             
2:14:11 PM                                                                                                                    
Co-Chair Seaton  was attempting to determine  the difficulty                                                                    
of filing  the forms. He  wondered about the burden  for the                                                                    
individuals or businesses  to file a return  compared to the                                                                    
federal returns.  Mr. Spanos hoped that  everyone would file                                                                    
online. He communicated that  currently the department's web                                                                    
portal  for corporations  made filing  easy  and guided  the                                                                    
user through the  process by choosing the  simplest form and                                                                    
offered  the least  options. He  suggested  that the  online                                                                    
system  for individuals  would require  W-2 information  and                                                                    
only  ask several  more questions  pertaining to  the state.                                                                    
Commercial  software  was  adapted to  include  the  state's                                                                    
income  tax forms  added on  as an  option with  federal tax                                                                    
forms. He indicated that if  an individual was using a paper                                                                    
form  a  separate  income schedule  would  be  included.  He                                                                    
anticipated a two-page form for paper filers.                                                                                   
2:16:47 PM                                                                                                                    
Representative  Wilson wondered  whether native  corporation                                                                    
dividends would  be taxed or exempted.  Mr. Spanos responded                                                                    
that  the dividends  were  taxed at  the  federal level  and                                                                    
would  be taxed  at the  state level.  Representative Wilson                                                                    
cited statistics that oil and  gas job wages were 11 percent                                                                    
of the total state wages  amounting to $2 billion, more than                                                                    
2.5 times the  overall average as of June 2016  and that the                                                                    
industry lost  3,000 jobs. She asked  whether the statistics                                                                    
were incorporated into the calculations  of how much revenue                                                                    
the  state  would  gain  from  an  income  tax.  Mr.  Spanos                                                                    
responded that  the department had  used the  2015 available                                                                    
data from the IRS.  Representative Wilson asked whether more                                                                    
current  data  was  available that  included  the  job  loss                                                                    
figures.  Mr.  Spanos  was  not  certain  current  data  was                                                                    
available and  would consult with  DOR economists.  He would                                                                    
provide  the information  to  the committee.  Representative                                                                    
Wilson thought "true numbers" were necessary going forward.                                                                     
2:19:02 PM                                                                                                                    
Co-Chair  Foster   related  that  many   native  corporation                                                                    
shareholders  in  "northwest"  Alaska did  not  pay  federal                                                                    
taxes on  their taxes  due to loss  carry forwards  or other                                                                    
exemptions. He  asked Mr. Spanos  to expand on  the subject.                                                                    
Mr.  Spanos wanted  to  address  native corporation's  taxes                                                                    
first.  He indicated  that Alaska  Native Corporations  were                                                                    
for-profit businesses and were  "definitely" taxed. A native                                                                    
corporation with net operating losses  would not pay tax due                                                                    
to loss carry forwards.  The dividends to shareholders would                                                                    
be taxed in  the same way as they were  taxed at the federal                                                                    
level. Co-Chair  Foster informed the committee  that many of                                                                    
the  native corporations  were formed  in 1971  or 1972.  He                                                                    
relayed  that  native  corporations  recently  informed  its                                                                    
shareholders that they  were required to pay  taxes on their                                                                    
dividends  because  the   corporations  were  becoming  more                                                                    
2:21:24 PM                                                                                                                    
Representative Pruitt  asked if the fiscal  notes were based                                                                    
on the 2015 data. Mr.  Spanos replied that if the department                                                                    
determined  that  "significant"  information  was  available                                                                    
that would  improve the fiscal  note, the  information would                                                                    
be  included. He  added that  DOR had  previously determined                                                                    
that the 2015  IRS data was the  best information available.                                                                    
Representative  Pruitt   assumed  better  data   meant  more                                                                    
accurate.  Mr. Spanos  responded that  the fiscal  note data                                                                    
was a  best estimate  of future tax  revenue. Representative                                                                    
Pruitt wanted to ensure the  fiscal notes were "not going to                                                                    
make  a statement."  He could  not find  information in  the                                                                    
bill  about  penalties  and interest  for  non-payment.  Mr.                                                                    
Spanos  conveyed  that  the  division  had  identified  many                                                                    
administrative  sections  that  were  not  included  in  the                                                                    
legislation but was  aware that the desired  level of detail                                                                    
took a substantial amount of  work to develop. The specifics                                                                    
of  the  tax  itself  was  most  important.  The  state  had                                                                    
existing  tax statutes  relating  to  penalties in  AS.42.05                                                                    
dealing  with  late  payments for  filing,  negligence,  and                                                                    
fraud. The  division wanted to include  penalties related to                                                                    
substantial understatement  for individual  taxpayers. There                                                                    
were  several  other   administrative  sections  that  other                                                                    
states  utilized   the  division  would  like   to  "mimic."                                                                    
Representative Pruitt  asked whether the penalties  were the                                                                    
same or  different than  the penalties  for other  taxes the                                                                    
state currently  administered. Mr. Spanos answered  that the                                                                    
division incorporated the  same penalties as the  IRS in the                                                                    
state's corporate  income tax statutes and  noted the income                                                                    
tax would  also incorporate the IRS  penalties. He suggested                                                                    
that the  penalty section  in AS.42.05  could be  applied to                                                                    
all tax types.                                                                                                                  
2:26:22 PM                                                                                                                    
Representative   Pruitt   asked   about   the   departments'                                                                    
timeframe  for  offering  amendments to  the  administrative                                                                    
sections.  Mr. Spanos  answered that  the timeframe  was the                                                                    
same  as the  members' amendment  deadline. He  thought that                                                                    
the  timeframe  was  short  and  noted  the  division  would                                                                    
include   a  few   administrative  provisions   they  deemed                                                                    
necessary. He  mentioned the difficulty of  proving fraud in                                                                    
income tax cases  related to the inclusion  of penalties for                                                                    
substantial understatement.                                                                                                     
Co-Chair  Foster interjected  that  amendments  were due  by                                                                    
4:00 pm on Friday of the current week.                                                                                          
Representative   Pruitt  wondered   whether  the   committee                                                                    
"should be moving  a piece of legislation that  did not have                                                                    
all of the  pieces in it." Mr. Spanos thought  that the bill                                                                    
was sufficient in its current  form but expressed his desire                                                                    
for  more administrative  sections  that made  administering                                                                    
the  tax simpler.  Representative Pruitt  believed that  the                                                                    
committee   process  was   responsible  for   including  all                                                                    
necessary provisions in legislation.                                                                                            
HB  115  was  HEARD  and   HELD  in  committee  for  further                                                                    
Co-Chair Foster  reviewed the agenda for  the following day.                                                                    
Public testimony would be heard the following day.                                                                              
2:29:56 PM                                                                                                                    
The meeting was adjourned at 2:30 p.m.                                                                                          

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