Legislature(2011 - 2012)HOUSE FINANCE 519

03/19/2012 01:30 PM FINANCE


Download Mp3. <- Right click and save file as

* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
-- Delayed to 2:00 p.m. Today --
+ HB 258 NATURALLY OCCURRING ASBESTOS TELECONFERENCED
Heard & Held
+ HB 337 BD OF ARCHITECTS, ENGINEERS, SURVEYORS TELECONFERENCED
Scheduled But Not Heard
+ Bills Previously Heard/Scheduled TELECONFERENCED
+= HB 245 SNOW CLASSIC TELECONFERENCED
Moved CSHB 245(FIN) Out of Committee
                  HOUSE FINANCE COMMITTEE                                                                                       
                      March 19, 2012                                                                                            
                         2:09 p.m.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
2:09:09 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CALL TO ORDER                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Stoltze called the  House Finance Committee meeting                                                                    
to order at 2:09 p.m.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Representative Bill Stoltze, Co-Chair                                                                                           
Representative Bill Thomas Jr., Co-Chair                                                                                        
Representative Anna Fairclough, Vice-Chair                                                                                      
Representative Mia Costello                                                                                                     
Representative Mike Doogan                                                                                                      
Representative Bryce Edgmon                                                                                                     
Representative Les Gara                                                                                                         
Representative David Guttenberg                                                                                                 
Representative Reggie Joule                                                                                                     
Representative Mark Neuman                                                                                                      
Representative Tammie Wilson                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
None                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
ALSO PRESENT                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Joe  Michel,   Staff,  Representative  Bill   Stoltze;  Jeff                                                                    
Prather, Supervisor, Gaming  Group, Tax Division, Department                                                                    
of  Revenue; Brody  Anderson,  Staff, Representative  Reggie                                                                    
Joule;   Paul  Anderson,   Staff  Physician,   Epidemiology,                                                                    
Division of  Public Health, Department of  Health and Social                                                                    
Services;   Roger  Healy,   Chief   Engineer,  Division   of                                                                    
Statewide  Design and  Engineering  Services, Department  of                                                                    
Transportation and Public Facilities.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
PRESENT VIA TELECONFERENCE                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Juli  Lucky, Staff,  Representative  Mike Hawker;  Elizabeth                                                                    
Hensley, Corporate and Public  Policy Liaison, Nana Regional                                                                    
Corporation,  Kotzebue;  Lance  Miller,  Vice  President  of                                                                    
Natural Resources Nana Regional Corporation, Kotzebue.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
SUMMARY                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
HB 245    SNOW CLASSIC                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
          CSHB 245(FIN) was REPORTED out of committee with                                                                      
          a "do pass" recommendation and with a previously                                                                      
          published zero fiscal note: FN1 (REV).                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
HB 258    NATURALLY OCCURRING ASBESTOS                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
          HB 258 was HEARD and HELD in Committee for                                                                            
          further consideration.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
HB 337    BD OF ARCHITECTS, ENGINEERS, SURVEYORS                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
          HB 337 was SCHEDULED but not HEARD.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE BILL NO. 245                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     "An Act establishing a snow classic as an authorized                                                                       
     form of charitable gaming."                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
2:10:52 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Stoltze discussed housekeeping.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Vice-chair  Fairclough  MOVED  to ADOPT  proposed  committee                                                                    
substitute for  HB 245,  Work Draft  27-LS0862\E (Luckhaupt,                                                                    
3/19/12). There being NO OBJECTION, it was so ordered.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
JOE  MICHEL, STAFF,  REPRESENTATIVE BILL  STOLTZE, explained                                                                    
the  changes in  the  CS.  He stated  that  the first  three                                                                    
Sections  of  the legislation  remained  the  same. He  drew                                                                    
committee attention to Section 4,  which had been amended to                                                                    
include the internet or an internet communication.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Costello  clarified  that  the  use  of  the                                                                    
internet was  for informational purposes  only and  that the                                                                    
sale of tickets through the internet was prohibited.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Michel replied  in the affirmative. He  added that rules                                                                    
on  the federal  level  related to  interstate commerce  had                                                                    
necessitated the prohibition.                                                                                                   
Co-Chair  Stoltze noted  that  the CS  had  been drafted  in                                                                    
concurrence  with the  bill sponsor.  He furthered  that the                                                                    
internet had  been included in  the legislation in  order to                                                                    
address the increase of internet advertising.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
JULI   LUCKY,  STAFF,   REPRESENTATIVE   MIKE  HAWKER   (via                                                                    
teleconference),   testified  that   the   sponsor  had   no                                                                    
objection to the changes in the CS.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Stoltze  noted there  was  not  an updated  fiscal                                                                    
note.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Vice-chair Fairclough wondered whether  there was a limit on                                                                    
the cost of raffle tickets.  She reported that the state had                                                                    
limited the  price of  raffle tickets  to $10.  She believed                                                                    
the number  was very low.  She added that under  current law                                                                    
any  non-profit organization  that sold  tickets at  a price                                                                    
higher than $10 was in violation.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
2:14:56 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Stoltze  relayed  that  he  had  purchased  raffle                                                                    
tickets  that   were  over  $10.   He  requested   that  the                                                                    
Department   of  Revenue   (DOR)  speak   to  the   specific                                                                    
regulations.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
JEFF  PRATHER,  SUPERVISOR,   GAMING  GROUP,  TAX  DIVISION,                                                                    
DEPARTMENT OF  REVENUE, clarified that  there was a  $10 per                                                                    
ticket limit on special draw  raffles. There was no limit on                                                                    
any other type of raffle ticket.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Stoltze  asked for a  definition of a  special draw                                                                    
raffle.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Prather  explained that  the special  draw raffle  was a                                                                    
raffle where the  winner was determined by  means other than                                                                    
a drawing.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Vice-chair Fairclough felt that  the law was currently being                                                                    
interpreted incorrectly.  She asked if there  were limits on                                                                    
balloon or ring draw sales.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Prather replied that the  special draw permit capped the                                                                    
price at $10.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Stoltze  believed  there  needed to  be  a  better                                                                    
education  process  among  the  non-profits  conducting  the                                                                    
raffle events.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Vice-chair  Fairclough shared  that the  issue had  troubled                                                                    
her for years. She stated  that she had repeatedly asked DOR                                                                    
why the price  was set at $10 but had  received no response.                                                                    
She furthered that charities attempting  to raise money were                                                                    
limited by the low price.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
2:20:18 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Vice-chair Fairclough  MOVED to report CSHB  245(FIN) out of                                                                    
committee   with   individual    recommendations   and   the                                                                    
accompanying fiscal  note. There being NO  OBJECTION, it was                                                                    
so ordered.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CSHB  245(FIN) was  REPORTED  out of  committee  with a  "do                                                                    
pass" recommendation  and with  a previously  published zero                                                                    
fiscal note: FN1 (REV).                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
2:20:54 PM                                                                                                                    
AT EASE                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
2:23:31 PM                                                                                                                    
RECONVENED                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE BILL NO. 258                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     "An Act directing the  Department of Transportation and                                                                    
     Public  Facilities to  develop and  implement standards                                                                    
     and operating  procedures allowing  for the use  in the                                                                    
     construction   and    maintenance   of   transportation                                                                    
     projects and public facilities  and in the construction                                                                    
     of projects  by public  and private entities  of gravel                                                                    
     or aggregate  materials that  contain a  limited amount                                                                    
     of  naturally occurring  asbestos, and  authorizing use                                                                    
     on  an interim  basis  of those  materials for  certain                                                                    
     transportation   projects    and   public   facilities;                                                                    
     relating  to  certain  claims  arising  out  of  or  in                                                                    
     connection  with   the  use  of  gravel   or  aggregate                                                                    
     materials  containing  a  limited amount  of  naturally                                                                    
     occurring  asbestos;  and  providing for  an  effective                                                                    
     date."                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
2:23:50 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Vice-chair  Fairclough  MOVED  to ADOPT  proposed  committee                                                                    
substitute  for  HB  258, Work  Draft  27-LS0400\S  (Nauman,                                                                    
3/16/12).                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Stoltze OBJECTED for discussion.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
JOE  MICHEL, STAFF,  REPRESENTATIVE BILL  STOLTZE, explained                                                                    
that there were  14 changes in the CS  before the committee.                                                                    
He pointed to a list of  changes in members packets (copy on                                                                    
file).   He  relayed   that  after   moving  out   of  House                                                                    
Transportation  Committee the  legislation  was reviewed  by                                                                    
the Department  of Law  (LAW), Department  of Transportation                                                                    
and  Public Facilities  (DOT&PF), and  Department of  Health                                                                    
and    Social   Services    (DHSS).    The   CS    reflected                                                                    
recommendations made by the departments.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Michel pointed  to a change on page 3,  lines 14-16. The                                                                    
change  had  been  requested  by LAW  in  order  to  protect                                                                    
agencies,  officers,  and  state employees  against  certain                                                                    
liability. He  relayed that on  page 3, lines  21-31 through                                                                    
page 4, lines 1-4  included intent language that established                                                                    
an analytical  threshold at  .25 percent  by mass  volume as                                                                    
naturally  occurring   asbestos  (NOA)  gravel   and  intent                                                                    
language  offered by  DHSS  on exposure  to  NAO and  public                                                                    
health. Page  4, lines  8-13 had been  suggested by  LAW and                                                                    
clarified  the scope  of immunity  provided under  the bill,                                                                    
additionally at  the bottom of  section A, line 13;  as well                                                                    
as  page  5,  lines   4-5,  reflected  that  state  immunity                                                                    
included agencies,  officers and employees. Page  5, line 16                                                                    
and  line  21  provided  separate immunity  for  gravel  pit                                                                    
landowners while  removing them  from the  immunity provided                                                                    
by  the   adherence  to  the   site-specific  plan   by  the                                                                    
contractors of the construction projects.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair   Stoltze   noted   that   the   departments   made                                                                    
recommendations; it was  the job of the  legislature to make                                                                    
actual policy changes.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Michel continued  to page 6, lines  12-13 which included                                                                    
DNR  in the  coordination  of the  database  on mineral  and                                                                    
gravel sources.  Page 9, line  29 reflected a  suggestion by                                                                    
LAW  to  include  the  word  "approved."  Page  10,  line  9                                                                    
included the  word "may"  in order to  allow for  the option                                                                    
for DOT&PF  to send the  copies of certain  material instead                                                                    
of  requiring DOT&PF  to  send material.  Page  10, line  31                                                                    
through  page 11,  line 7,  provided  DOT&PF the  regulatory                                                                    
authority  to  write   administrative  regulations  for  the                                                                    
implementation  of the  bill.  Page 11,  line  25 added  the                                                                    
requirement  for   DOT&PF  to  establish   regulations  that                                                                    
included specific  components of the site-specific  plan. He                                                                    
relayed that  the final change  on page 12, line  28 changed                                                                    
the  expiration date  for the  interim projects  to December                                                                    
31,  2013;  this would  allow  DOT&PF  enough time  for  the                                                                    
regulatory process.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
2:29:32 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
BRODY   ANDERSON,   STAFF,  REPRESENTATIVE   REGGIE   JOULE,                                                                    
expressed  that  Mr.  Michel   had  done  an  excellent  job                                                                    
explaining the changes.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
2:30:06 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Stoltze WITHDREW  his  OBJECTION.  There being  NO                                                                    
further OBJECTION, Work Draft 27-LS0400\S was ADOPTED.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   REGGIE   JOULE,   SPONSOR,   informed   the                                                                    
committee  several resource  rich communities  in the  state                                                                    
had  experienced  delays  in  capital  projects  because  of                                                                    
naturally  occurring  asbestos   (NOA).  He  explained  that                                                                    
projects  that  had  been  put   on  hold  included  airport                                                                    
extensions, bridge  replacements, water  and sewer  work and                                                                    
homebuilding. He opined that several  failed attempts by the                                                                    
legislature and  state departments to address  the issue had                                                                    
occurred over the last 10 years.  He warned that as Roads to                                                                    
Resources   projects  reached   the   Upper  Kobuk   Mineral                                                                    
District,   the  price   of  capping   NOA  would   increase                                                                    
substantially.  He hoped  that the  rural communities  could                                                                    
have the benefit of necessary economic growth.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
2:33:48 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Vice-chair    Fairclough   queried    the   health    issues                                                                    
surrounding, and the methods used to effectively cap NOA.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Anderson deferred the question to DHSS.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
2:36:28 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
PAUL  ANDERSON, STAFF  PHYSICIAN, EPIDEMIOLOGY,  DIVISION OF                                                                    
PUBLIC  HEALTH, DEPARTMENT  OF HEALTH  AND SOCIAL  SERVICES,                                                                    
explained  that  undisturbed,  non-airborne NOA  was  not  a                                                                    
health risk. Natural weathering  and human disturbance could                                                                    
break down NOA  to the microscopic fibers  that would become                                                                    
suspended in the air and damaging if inhaled.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Vice-chair  Fairclough   wondered  how   workers  extracting                                                                    
gravel  would be  protected from  airborne NOA.  She queried                                                                    
the  grade of  asbestos; she  understood that  some asbestos                                                                    
types were more harmful than others.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Dr.  Anderson  responded  that   there  were  two  different                                                                    
classes of  asbestos fibers. The  serpentine fibers  had the                                                                    
common  name  chrysotile,  and   appeared  as  a  snake-like                                                                    
asbestos  mineral under  a microscope.  The other  class was                                                                    
known  as   amphibole  fibers,   which  were   straight  and                                                                    
needlelike. He  listed the six different  types of amphibole                                                                    
fibers: amosite,  crocidolite, tremolite,  anthophyllite and                                                                    
actinolite. He explained that the  Ambler area contained the                                                                    
serpentine   fibers.  He   shared  that   asbestos  occurred                                                                    
naturally in  the environment throughout  the world  and was                                                                    
most commonly found  in ultramafic and mafic  rocks. He said                                                                    
that there was  no acceptable exposure level  for humans but                                                                    
that established  measures, like threshold limits,  had been                                                                    
established to minimalize workers exposure.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Vice-chair Fairclough  pointed out that the  legislation did                                                                    
not  distinguish   between  the  serpentine   and  amphibole                                                                    
fibers. Dr.  Anderson replied in  the affirmative.  He added                                                                    
that all varieties of asbestos  fibers were considered to be                                                                    
harmful; particularly crocidolite fibers.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Vice-chair Fairclough  asked about  any steps that  could be                                                                    
taken  to make  the  NOA extraction  safer  for workers  and                                                                    
community members.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
2:40:34 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Dr.  Anderson replied  that there  were regulations  for the                                                                    
exposure  of  workers.  An  analytical  threshold  had  been                                                                    
established in the  bill; a test used to  examine samples in                                                                    
order to establish harmful fiber  content. He shared that if                                                                    
no fibers  were visible the  best that could  be established                                                                    
would  be  that  the  asbestos content  was  less  than  .25                                                                    
percent by weight. If there  was a higher amount of asbestos                                                                    
found  then mitigation,  plans would  be  employed to  limit                                                                    
exposure.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Vice-chair  Fairclough  noted that  the  bill  dealt with  a                                                                    
content equal or greater than the 0.25 percent NOA mass.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Anderson  responded in the affirmative.  He relayed that                                                                    
the components of the site-specific  plan and the mitigation                                                                    
of  the monitoring  plan would  begin  at the  point of  the                                                                    
desire to use the gravel that was .25 percent or greater.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Vice-chair   Fairclough   maintained  her   concerns   about                                                                    
worker's health.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Gara echoed  the health  concerns raised  by                                                                    
the  Vice-Chair. He  wondered  whether workers  compensation                                                                    
was  available  for  people who  were  diagnosed  with  lung                                                                    
cancer as a result of NOA exposure.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Anderson replied that LAW  had been contacted concerning                                                                    
worker's compensation and would follow up with an answer.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Gara  understood that  workers  compensation                                                                    
would help exposed  workers but not the people  who lived in                                                                    
the areas where the work  was being performed. He probed the                                                                    
health concerns associated with NOA.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Dr.  Anderson  replied  that   asbestos  exposure  was  most                                                                    
commonly  associated   with  mesothelioma,  a   cancer  that                                                                    
occurred  in  the  lining  of   the  lungs.  He  added  that                                                                    
asbestosis was a non-cancerous,  chronic lung condition that                                                                    
caused scar  tissue to  build on the  lungs, which  could be                                                                    
caused by long-term exposure to NOA.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Representative Gara understood that  one of the difficulties                                                                    
of treating mesothelioma was that  if often went undiagnosed                                                                    
until it was terminal.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
2:46:27 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Dr. Anderson  replied that the lengthy  latency period after                                                                    
exposure  to  NOA  before   a  diagnosis  made  mesothelioma                                                                    
difficult  to   study.  Often  the  disease   would  have  a                                                                    
substantial  amount  of  time   to  develop  before  it  was                                                                    
diagnosed.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Representative Gara understood that  the legislation did not                                                                    
regulate  NOA that  was below  .25 percent  by weight;  only                                                                    
higher  percentages by  weight  triggered the  site-specific                                                                    
plans.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Anderson replied in the affirmative.                                                                                        
Representative Gara asked whether  there was any established                                                                    
safe level of asbestos exposure.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Anderson referred members to  a handout from DHSS titled                                                                    
"Asbestos Exposure  - Ambler, Public Health  and Assessment,                                                                    
Interim Report,  May 20, 2005"  He stated that NOA  had been                                                                    
found  in  Ambler   for  100s  of  years.   He  shared  that                                                                    
riverbanks in Ambler  showed levels as low as  .2 percent by                                                                    
weight;  other   portions  of  the  town   had  showed  full                                                                    
percentages.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
2:49:04 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Dr. Anderson  offered a brief  synopsis of the  DHSS report.                                                                    
He stated  that there  was a  long history  of investigation                                                                    
into  Ambler and  public health.  He said  that no  cases of                                                                    
malignant mesothelioma  had been documented in  the area. He                                                                    
communicated  that the  cases  that had  been  found in  the                                                                    
state could be attributed to occupational exposure.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Representative   Gara  restated   the  question   concerning                                                                    
acceptable levels of NOA exposure.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Dr. Anderson  reiterated that there was  no acceptable level                                                                    
of exposure for human health.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Representative Gara expressed concern  that allowing the use                                                                    
of the  gravel in one area  could lead to its  use in other,                                                                    
unnecessary areas.  He wondered  if signs  could be  used to                                                                    
warn people of asbestos levels in areas.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Representative Joule  responded that signage would  not be a                                                                    
problem. He reminded the committee  that residents of Ambler                                                                    
were  acutely aware  of the  asbestos issue  because it  was                                                                    
hindering  any   infrastructure  projects   from  occurring,                                                                    
including the building of homes  in the area. He shared that                                                                    
the  legislation  was the  result  of  efforts made  by  the                                                                    
Ambler community. He  clarified that he had  no intention of                                                                    
forwarding  legislation that  would put  people's health  at                                                                    
risk. He shared that there  had been an extensive search for                                                                    
clean  sites near  the area  and  that there  had been  some                                                                    
success  in locating  clean sources  of gravel;  however, it                                                                    
would take  the installation of  roads to access  the areas.                                                                    
He stressed that  clean sources of gravel  would continue to                                                                    
be sought out.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
2:53:02 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Anderson added  that regulation  authority  had been  a                                                                    
reoccurring  issue  in   constructing  the  legislation.  He                                                                    
explained that  public notification  had been  a reoccurring                                                                    
issue.  Discussions had  included  what  should be  directly                                                                    
spelled out  in statute, versus  what should be  included in                                                                    
regulations. He said that the conversation was ongoing.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Representative Gara  thought it could be  possible to follow                                                                    
a site-specific  plan without  allowing punitive  damages or                                                                    
class  action  lawsuits;  however,   he  believed  that  the                                                                    
possibility  for  workers  compensation  should  remain.  He                                                                    
contended  that if  the Ambler  area was  safe enough  there                                                                    
would never be a lawsuit.  He stated that the signage should                                                                    
be  for area  residents  as  well as  workers.  He asked  if                                                                    
sealing of  the ground would  be required in areas  that had                                                                    
levels below .25 percent NOA by weight.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Anderson responded  that the  site-specific plan  would                                                                    
require  the determination  the  most economically  feasible                                                                    
plan for the project to  move forward. If clean gravel could                                                                    
be found it had to be  used; however, if it was economically                                                                    
unreasonable for  clean gravel to  be found then  the gravel                                                                    
containing  NOA  could be  used  but  had  to be  sealed  or                                                                    
buried. The final  solution would be to leave  the gravel on                                                                    
top as top surface material.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Gara asked  whether  the  asbestos would  be                                                                    
loose if left on top, or would it need to be sealed.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Anderson deferred the question to DOT.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
2:57:22 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
ROGER HEALY,  CHIEF ENGINEER,  DIVISION OF  STATEWIDE DESIGN                                                                    
AND ENGINEERING  SERVICES, DEPARTMENT OF  TRANSPORTATION AND                                                                    
PUBLIC FACILITIES  responded that  under the  regulations in                                                                    
the bill the  layer exposed to the public  could not contain                                                                    
NOA  that  could  become  airborne.  He  said  that  if  the                                                                    
economically  reasonable material  proved to  be the  gravel                                                                    
containing NOA some form of cap  would be needed to seal the                                                                    
material. Some cap alternatives  included 12 inches of clean                                                                    
gravel,  a pavement  layer, a  chip seal,  or other  project                                                                    
dependent  alternative.  He  stated that  an  operation  and                                                                    
maintenance  plan  would  be required  to  ensure  that  the                                                                    
surface was maintained.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
3:00:24 PM                                                                                                                    
Representative  Edgmon wondered  would  the  problem of  NOA                                                                    
become  a   larger  issue  as  development   and  extraction                                                                    
throughout the state increased                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Healy replied that the state  was large and that maps of                                                                    
Alaska were  not as  detailed as those  of other  states. He                                                                    
relayed that it  had been documented that  NOA was typically                                                                    
present   in  ultramafic   rocks,  which   could  be   found                                                                    
throughout the  state. He believed  that the issue  would be                                                                    
faced by many Roads to Resources projects.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Edgmon understood  that the  issue had  been                                                                    
highly important in Ambler for many years.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Joule  replied  that   the  issue  had  been                                                                    
ongoing for many years.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Representative Edgmon  wondered if Juneau projects  would be                                                                    
impacted by the legislation.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Healy offered  that one  project  could potentially  be                                                                    
impacted.  He explained  that NOA  had been  found in  small                                                                    
veins out  near the ferry  terminal in Juneau.  He explained                                                                    
that  the  site  had  been   contained.  He  said  that  the                                                                    
operators    were    working   within    workplace    safety                                                                    
requirements.  He  stated  that  he  did  not  know  if  the                                                                    
material  at the  site had  tested  below or  above the  .25                                                                    
percent limit.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
3:04:37 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Costello  wondered  whether the  bill  could                                                                    
include  exemptions  for  specific communities  rather  than                                                                    
putting the provisions in state statute.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Mr.   Anderson   referred   to  a   bill   that   had   been                                                                    
unsuccessfully introduced in a  prior session. He understood                                                                    
that DOT  needed certain statutory requirements  in order to                                                                    
move forward on the issue.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Costello wondered  whether  the sponsor  had                                                                    
considered providing a sunset date for the legislation.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Anderson replied that the idea had not been discussed.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Costello discussed  the  possibility of  the                                                                    
state  working  with  the  Federal  Aviation  Administration                                                                    
(FAA) to post notices of possible NOA exposure at airports.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Healy  answered that the  bill would cover  new projects                                                                    
and would  provide a mechanism  to do  the work in  areas of                                                                    
NOA.  He  reiterated that  the  final  top layer  could  not                                                                    
exceed  .25 percent  NOA mass  per the  analytical measuring                                                                    
method written into the bill.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Costello  stated  that her  concern  was  to                                                                    
protect  air  carriers  should they  come  in  contact  with                                                                    
contaminated areas.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
3:09:49 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Neuman cited  page 3,  lines 23  and 24.  He                                                                    
noted that  California had the most  restrictive regulations                                                                    
in the  country and wondered  if those regulations  had been                                                                    
considered when drafting the bill.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Anderson  replied that Virginia and  California were the                                                                    
two states with viable working  NOA programs. He stated that                                                                    
many   examples  had   been   taken   from  the   California                                                                    
regulations  and statute.  He detailed  that California  had                                                                    
started out  with a 5  percent threshold in 1996,  which was                                                                    
reduced to  3 percent, and in  2002 and it had  been reduced                                                                    
to .25  percent. He added  that the method of  testing under                                                                    
discussion had been developed for California.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Neuman  discussed   signage.  He  looked  at                                                                    
Section 1,  page 3  and asked if  it was  standard operating                                                                    
procedure for DOT  to post warning signs  for employees. Mr.                                                                    
Healy responded in the affirmative.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
3:13:34 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative Neuman  wondered how it would  be possible to                                                                    
determine whether a  certain lung cancer had  been caused by                                                                    
asbestos that could be traced to a specific area.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Anderson deferred the question to DHSS.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Representative Neuman  quoted page 9. He  wondered whom "the                                                                    
party" referred to in the language of the bill.                                                                                 
Mr. Anderson  replied that "the  party" was the  person that                                                                    
would be  submitting the site-specific plan,  which could be                                                                    
the state or a third party private contractor.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Representative Neuman  queried how  the air safety  would be                                                                    
ensured for  individuals working  in gravel  pits containing                                                                    
freshly ground rock dust.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Healy pointed  out  to the  committee  that there  were                                                                    
existing  regulations under  the  Mining  Safety and  Health                                                                    
Administration  (MSHA) and  Occupational  Safety and  Health                                                                    
Administration  (OSHA)  regarding airborne  asbestos.  There                                                                    
were requirements  for dust mass  or air particle  mass that                                                                    
should be part  of the daily regimen for  the contractor. He                                                                    
continued that  the bill would require  airborne testing for                                                                    
existing  regulation requirements.  He referred  to a  daily                                                                    
monitoring program  that would ensure that  the asbestos was                                                                    
not exposing workers hazardous levels of asbestos.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Neuman  asked  whether  regulations  on  the                                                                    
federal level would increase for future projects.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
3:18:57 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Healy  responded   that  the  Environmental  Protection                                                                    
Agency  (EPA) had  not  provided  additional specific  rules                                                                    
other than  those existing  in OSHA  and MSHA.  He furthered                                                                    
that there  was an airborne  level for asbestos in  terms of                                                                    
workers safety.  He shared that the  California model, which                                                                    
Alaska was  using as  a guideline, tested  the soil  with an                                                                    
assumption of  what was safe  by airborne standard.  The EPA                                                                    
had  not yet  come out  with a  guideline of  what could  be                                                                    
considered safe soil asbestos levels.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Guttenberg wondered  whether there  had been                                                                    
any encapsulation studies conducted.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Healy replied  that many  variables were  considered in                                                                    
determining   how  to   encapsulate  individual   areas.  He                                                                    
explained  that the  objective would  be  to prevent  public                                                                    
inhalation of NOA by the best means available.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Representative Guttenberg  suggested that  most construction                                                                    
projects required  subsequent work.  He understood  that the                                                                    
OSHA standards would protect workers,  but the goal was also                                                                    
to protect the  public. He pointed out that  most roads were                                                                    
manufactured.  He  understood  that the  term  "soil"  meant                                                                    
"fill" for the purpose of discussion.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
3:24:09 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Healy responded in the affirmative.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Anderson directed  attention to  page 10  of the  bill,                                                                    
which  listed  a  requirement  that  the  contractor  submit                                                                    
documentation that NOA gravel had  been used on the property                                                                    
upon completion of a project. A  marker would be placed as a                                                                    
warning for any future digging.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Guttenberg   discussed  the   efficiency  of                                                                    
stockpiling  of  material.  He expressed  concern  that  the                                                                    
public could liberate quantities  of stockpiled material. He                                                                    
wondered outside  of signage what  would be done  to protect                                                                    
the public.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Healy  replied that  the specifics  had not  been worked                                                                    
out  at the  present  time. He  said that  in  terms of  the                                                                    
construction process there  were established best management                                                                    
practices  that  California  had  adopted  on  its  projects                                                                    
related to  laying down asbestos material  while keeping the                                                                    
dust level down.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
3:27:49 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
ELIZABETH  HENSLEY,  CORPORATE  AND PUBLIC  POLICY  LIAISON,                                                                    
NANA  REGIONAL CORPORATION,  KOTZEBUE (via  teleconference),                                                                    
thanked  the sponsor  for introducing  the legislation.  She                                                                    
testified that  there were numerous  projects that  had been                                                                    
put on hold in the  affected communities. She added that the                                                                    
entire Northwest Arctic Leadership Team  was in favor of the                                                                    
legislation.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
LANCE  MILLER,  VICE  PRESIDENT OF  NATURAL  RESOURCES  NANA                                                                    
REGIONAL   CORPORATION,   KOTZEBUE   (via   teleconference),                                                                    
supported the  legislation. He relayed that  the gravel bars                                                                    
below  Ambler  were  made  from  eroded  rock  from  various                                                                    
ultramafic rock. He  stated that some of  the highest levels                                                                    
of asbestos could found in  naturally occurring gravel bars.                                                                    
He pointed out  to the committee that area  residents in the                                                                    
region had been  living with the substance  for thousands of                                                                    
years.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Stoltze interjected that in  the Knik Arm area fine                                                                    
gravel clay,  blown in on  the wind, sometimes made  its way                                                                    
indoors. He  wondered whether particles carried  on the wind                                                                    
was an issue in the Ambler and Kotzebue area.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Miller  replied that the  dust in the Kotzebue  area was                                                                    
different than  in the Knik Arm  area. Much of the  area was                                                                    
covered  in snow  for  most  of the  year,  which offered  a                                                                    
natural sealant.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
3:33:35 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Stoltze CLOSED public  testimony with the intent to                                                                    
reopen it if necessary.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Vice-chair  Fairclough wondered  whether  the extraction  or                                                                    
storage of NOA gravel would occur on privately owned land.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Representative Joule responded that  most villages that were                                                                    
part of the Alaska  National Interest Lands Conservation Act                                                                    
(ANILCA) had either subsurface or  surface issues. He stated                                                                    
that the land was native allotments or privately owned.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Vice-chair   Fairclough   referred   to  language   in   the                                                                    
legislation that DOT  would map out where  projects would be                                                                    
placed inside  the communities, and  would keep  a recording                                                                    
of the specific projects.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Anderson responded in the affirmative.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Vice-chair  Fairclough  expounded  on  the  hazards  of  not                                                                    
making public  where all NOA  lands were  located throughout                                                                    
the state.  She thought mapping  could help to  identify the                                                                    
areas for future users.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
3:38:19 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Healy explained that once  NOA levels were determined on                                                                    
a  private site  it would  be  incumbent upon  the owner  to                                                                    
inform the public.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Vice-chair  Fairclough maintained  that  a  mined pit  still                                                                    
posed a  health risk, and  that the  bill did not  require a                                                                    
plat  note  to  protect   against  future  remediation.  She                                                                    
wondered what  responsibility the  private owner had  to the                                                                    
protection of the public health.  She added that bidding for                                                                    
projects could be skewed due  to an imbalance of information                                                                    
concerning areas containing NOA.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
3:42:38 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Healy answered that bill  would cover existing projects.                                                                    
Requirements  to  the public  health  could  be found  under                                                                    
current DNR  Statute 27 requirements.  If the site  was new,                                                                    
the  issue of  notification  to users  would  be covered  in                                                                    
regulation. In order to seek  immunity under the legislation                                                                    
the owner or contractor would  need to submit plan approval.                                                                    
The  plan approval  was incumbent  upon  the material  being                                                                    
sealed.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Vice-chair Fairclough  maintained that there was  nothing in                                                                    
the bill  that required  the mapping of  the NOA  areas. She                                                                    
argued  that there  could  be corridors  or  pits that  were                                                                    
already  established that  the  public was  unaware of.  She                                                                    
requested   a   description    of   the   term   "reasonably                                                                    
uneconomical".                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Healy answered  that the  equation  involved the  type,                                                                    
size,  and final  usage  of  the land  were  all factors  in                                                                    
deciding whether  a project was uneconomic.  He believed the                                                                    
bill  provided the  ground rules  for  the determination  in                                                                    
statute.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
HB  258  was  HEARD  and   HELD  in  Committee  for  further                                                                    
consideration.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Stoltze discussed housekeeping.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE BILL NO. 337                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     "An  Act  relating to  the  Board  of Registration  for                                                                    
     Architects, Engineers,  and Land  Surveyors and  to the                                                                    
     Department   of  Commerce,   Community,  and   Economic                                                                    
     Development."                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
HB 337 was SCHEDULED but not HEARD.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
ADJOURNMENT                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
3:49:38 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
The meeting was adjourned at 3:49 PM.                                                                                           

Document Name Date/Time Subjects
HB258.Trans.Sectional.vTpdf.pdf HFIN 3/19/2012 1:30:00 PM
HB 258
HB258.Trans.Sectional.vT.docx HFIN 3/19/2012 1:30:00 PM
HB 258
HB258.NWALT.Support.LTR.pdf HFIN 3/19/2012 1:30:00 PM
HB 258
HB258.Nana.Support.LTR.pdf HFIN 3/19/2012 1:30:00 PM
HB 258
HB258.Ambler.Exposure.Report.2005.pdf HFIN 3/19/2012 1:30:00 PM
HB 258
HB258 Sponsor Statement pdf.pdf HFIN 3/19/2012 1:30:00 PM
HB 258
HB 258 INE study.pdf HFIN 3/19/2012 1:30:00 PM
HB 258
27th.2nd.SS.HB258.docx HFIN 3/19/2012 1:30:00 PM
HB 258
HB337 Supporting Documents- Written Testimony D Hale Public 02-24-2012.pdf HFIN 3/19/2012 1:30:00 PM
HB 337
HB337 Supporting Documents- Letter Harley Hightower- Public 02-24-2012.pdf HFIN 3/19/2012 1:30:00 PM
HB 337
HB 337 -Supporting Document-Letter-AELS Position Paper-Harley Hightower 02-29-2012.pdf HFIN 3/19/2012 1:30:00 PM
HB 337
HB 337 Supporting Document- Letter- Richard Rearick 03-01-2012.pdf HFIN 3/19/2012 1:30:00 PM
HB 337
HB 337 Supporting Document- Letter of Support- Cliff Baker- 3-1-2012.pdf HFIN 3/19/2012 1:30:00 PM
HB 337
HB 337 Supporting Document- Letter- Burdett Lent 03-01-2012.pdf HFIN 3/19/2012 1:30:00 PM
HB 337
HB 337 Sponsor Statement.pdf HFIN 3/19/2012 1:30:00 PM
HB 337
HB258 CSWORKDRAFT 27-LS0400S.pdf HFIN 3/19/2012 1:30:00 PM
HB 258
HB258.Ambler.NOAIssues.Priority.pdf HFIN 3/19/2012 1:30:00 PM
HB 258
HB258.Changes. versionT.VersionS.pdf HFIN 3/19/2012 1:30:00 PM
HB 258
HB 245 CS WORKDRAFT 27-LS0862-E.pdf HFIN 3/19/2012 1:30:00 PM
HB 245