Legislature(2011 - 2012)HOUSE FINANCE 519

02/13/2012 01:30 PM FINANCE


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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
-- Delayed to 15 min. after Session --
+ HB 246 NAMING CERTAIN BRIDGES TELECONFERENCED
Moved CSHB 246(FIN) Out of Committee
+ HB 248 AL WRIGHT AIRPORT AT MINTO TELECONFERENCED
Heard & Held
+ HB 249 KOYUKUK STATION VETERANS' AIRPORT TELECONFERENCED
Heard & Held
+= HB 118 RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT TAX CREDIT TELECONFERENCED
Moved CSHB 118(FIN) Out of Committee
+ Bills Previously Heard/Scheduled TELECONFERENCED
                  HOUSE FINANCE COMMITTEE                                                                                       
                     February 13, 2012                                                                                          
                         2:11 p.m.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
2:11:05 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CALL TO ORDER                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Stoltze called the House Finance Committee meeting                                                                     
to order at 2:11 p.m.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Representative Bill Stoltze, Co-Chair                                                                                           
Representative Bill Thomas Jr., Co-Chair                                                                                        
Representative Mia Costello                                                                                                     
Representative Mike Doogan                                                                                                      
Representative Bryce Edgmon                                                                                                     
Representative Les Gara                                                                                                         
Representative David Guttenberg                                                                                                 
Representative Mark Neuman                                                                                                      
Representative Tammie Wilson                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Representative Anna Fairclough, Vice-Chair                                                                                      
Representative Reggie Joule                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
ALSO PRESENT                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Kaci  Schroeder-Hotch,  Staff, Representative  Bill  Thomas;                                                                    
Cynthia Erickson,  Staff, Representative Alan  Dick; Annette                                                                    
Kreitzer,  Staff, Representative  Alan Dick;  Curtis Thayer,                                                                    
Deputy Commissioner,  Department of Commerce,  Community and                                                                    
Economic Development;  Bruce Tangeman,  Deputy Commissioner,                                                                    
Tax Division, Department of Revenue.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
SUMMARY                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
HB 246    NAMING CERTAIN BRIDGES                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
          CSHB 246(FIN)  was REPORTED out of  committee with                                                                    
          a "do  pass" recommendation and with  a new fiscal                                                                    
          impact note from  the Department of Transportation                                                                    
          and Public Facilities.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
HB 248    AL WRIGHT AIRPORT AT MINTO                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
          HB 248 was HEARD and HELD in Committee.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
HB 249    KOYUKUK STATION VETERANS' AIRPORT                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
          HB 248 was HEARD and HELD in Committee.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
HB 118    RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT TAX CREDIT                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
          CSHB 118(L&C)  was REPORTED out of  committee with                                                                    
          "no  recommendation"  and  with  accompanying  new                                                                    
          indeterminate fiscal  note from the  Department of                                                                    
          Revenue  and   new  zero  fiscal  note   from  the                                                                    
          Department  of  Labor and  Workforce  Development.                                                                    
          [Note:  The  committee  rescinded  its  action  to                                                                    
          report  out  CSHB  118(L&C) on  2/15/12  and  took                                                                    
          corrective action to report out CSHB 118(FIN).]                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE BILL NO. 246                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     "An Act naming certain bridges."                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE BILL NO. 248                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     "An Act naming the Al Wright Airport at Minto."                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE BILL NO. 249                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     "An Act naming the Koyukuk Station Veterans' Airport                                                                       
     at Koyukuk."                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
2:12:25 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Stoltze explained that HB 248 and HB 249 would be                                                                      
merged into HB 246.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Thomas MOVED to ADOPT the proposed committee                                                                           
substitute for HB 246, Work Draft 27-LS0921\B (Wayne,                                                                           
2/10/12). There being NO OBJECTION it was so ordered.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
KACI  SCHROEDER-HOTCH,  STAFF, REPRESENTATIVE  BILL  THOMAS,                                                                    
explained that  HB 246  named 15 bridges  and 2  airports in                                                                    
the city of  Cordova. The city had requested that  15 of its                                                                    
bridges  be  named after  some  of  its "finest"  residents.                                                                    
First,  the city  requested that  the bridge  over the  Eyak                                                                    
River  be named  after Marie  Smith  Jones; she  had been  a                                                                    
community  elder who  worked to  preserve the  Eyak language                                                                    
and had  left one of  the most comprehensive records  of any                                                                    
aboriginal language upon her death.  Second, fourteen of the                                                                    
city's bridges  would be named  after each of the  young men                                                                    
that  had been  lost  in  World War  I,  World  War II,  and                                                                    
Vietnam. The names were as follows:                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     World  War I:  James  Bennet, William  M. Jones,  Steve                                                                    
     Green, Lucian Platt, Matthew  Anderson, W.H. Mumby, and                                                                    
     John W. Jones                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
     World War II: Patrick  B. Burchett, Norman D. Osbourne,                                                                    
     and Leonard F. Olson                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     Vietnam:  David  Henry   Elisovky,  David  Allen  Lape,                                                                    
     Warren Allen Paulsen, and Michael Dean Banta                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Schroeder-Hotch  elaborated  that  naming  the  bridges                                                                    
after  the residents  was the  least  the city  could do  to                                                                    
thank them for their service and sacrifice.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CYNTHIA  ERICKSON,  STAFF,  REPRESENTATIVE ALAN  DICK,  read                                                                    
from the HB 248 Sponsor Statement (copy on file):                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     Al  Wright was  born at  Tanana Crossing  on April  26,                                                                    
     1925 to  Arthur and Myrtle Wright,  missionaries in the                                                                    
     Minto Flats  area. Arthur Wright was  Athabascan Indian                                                                    
     and Myrtle was white. Mrs.  Wright was one of the first                                                                    
     nurses in  the villages.  In 1930  the family  moved to                                                                    
     Minto.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     The  Wright family  lived a  subsistence lifestyle.  In                                                                    
     Minto his  dad tried to start  a school. He had  a hard                                                                    
     time  because  the kids  had  to  go back  to  seasonal                                                                    
     subsistence camps.  Each child  would bring a  stick of                                                                    
     wood as tuition.  When the wood ran out  that ended the                                                                    
     school day.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     When  Al  was nine,  they  moved  to Nenana  where  his                                                                    
     father started  work in the  shipyard. His  family also                                                                    
     cut   and  sold   wood  for   $8.00  a   cord  with   a                                                                    
     Sears&Roebuck wood  saw. They  dragged the wood  with a                                                                    
     model-T vehicle back to the village to sell.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     Al was  15 when he  started in construction  on defense                                                                    
     projects  all over  Interior Alaska.  He had  no formal                                                                    
     training and learned as he  went along. His skills were                                                                    
     in  high demand  on  the defense  projects; however  he                                                                    
     wanted to  join the Army.  The only way he  could leave                                                                    
     his  job was  to  quit the  construction  work and  get                                                                    
     drafted. When he  got out of the Army, he  found out he                                                                    
     could get  his pilot's license  with the G.I.  bill. He                                                                    
     originally  started for  fun, but  never got  away from                                                                    
     flying.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     His first  plane was  a 65 Taylorcraft.  One day  a man                                                                    
     asked to  charter him to  pick up furs. He  said, "boy,                                                                    
     this  is  the way  to  make  money."  From then  on  he                                                                    
     started  hauling trappers  and  developing a  business.                                                                    
     His first charter  was $20.00 an hour  with fuel, plane                                                                    
     and pilot. He  taught himself to fly  with floats. With                                                                    
     no formal training,  his first flight was to  pick up a                                                                    
     dying  man in  a Minto  fish  camp. He  flew about  200                                                                    
     hours before  he was  forced to  get an  official float                                                                    
     rating. He  had trouble  getting ratings  and licenses,                                                                    
     because  he  had  little education.  He  struggled  his                                                                    
     whole life because  he never learned how  to read well,                                                                    
     write or  spell. He quit  school after the  sixth grade                                                                    
     as he took on more seasonal work with the family.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     Al  started   Wright's  Air   Service  in   1950  which                                                                    
     continued to grow in Interior  Alaska. His focus was on                                                                    
     maintaining  high standards  with maintenance  and with                                                                    
     his employees.  He was the critical  link for scheduled                                                                    
     mail  and   charter  flights  to  about   20  villages.                                                                    
     Wright's Air  today is  a well-known  charter operation                                                                    
     in   the  Interior,   supporting  government   surveys,                                                                    
     seasonal  camps,   firefighting,  land   surveying  and                                                                    
     hunting  expeditions. In  1983 Al  sold his  airline to                                                                    
     long-time friend and pilot,  Bob Burcell. Bob continues                                                                    
     to  run the  airline  with the  same  old time  values,                                                                    
     kindness  and  respect  Al  had   for  his  people  and                                                                    
     villages.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
2:18:01 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Stoltze appreciated having information about the                                                                       
individuals on the record. He noted that the bridges were                                                                       
all currently either unnamed or had generic designations.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Thomas agreed.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Representative Gara wondered whether  the names moved with a                                                                    
bridge when it was moved as a result of a washout.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Thomas replied  often times  bridges were  rebuilt                                                                    
and not  moved. He added  that Cordova was currently  in the                                                                    
middle of a disaster conference;  therefore it was unable to                                                                    
call in to testify.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Stoltze had  been moved  by  the participation  of                                                                    
Cordova residents  in 2006 when the  Vietnam Veterans Moving                                                                    
Wall had come  to town. He believed that Cordova  was one of                                                                    
the  communities that  had  paid the  highest  price in  its                                                                    
contribution to war.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Erickson  read from the  HB 249 Sponsor  Statement (copy                                                                    
on file):                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     The original village of  Koyukuk, primarily all Koyukon                                                                    
     Athabascan  Indians, was  established  around 1867.  It                                                                    
     used to  be called Koyukuk Station,  because a military                                                                    
     telegraph line was constructed along  the North side of                                                                    
     the  Yukon,   and  Koyukuk  became  the   site  of  the                                                                    
     telegraph   station.  In   naming   the  airport,   the                                                                    
     residents also  wish to honor the  many Native military                                                                    
     veterans who have served their country.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     Koyukuk is  located on the  Yukon River, 30  miles west                                                                    
     of  Galena and  290  air miles  from  Fairbanks. It  is                                                                    
     adjacent to the Koyukuk and Innoko River Refuges.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     The Russian traders were a  big influence in this area,                                                                    
     opening  a trading  post  around  1880. Roman  Catholic                                                                    
     Missionaries   also  had   a   major   impact  on   the                                                                    
     Athabascans. The first school  was constructed in 1939,                                                                    
     this  resulted  in the  Koyukon  people  living in  the                                                                    
     village year around.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     Up  until   then,  the  Koyukon  Athabascans   lived  a                                                                    
     subsistence lifestyle,  moving among seasonal  fish and                                                                    
     game  camps.  They moved  as  the  wild game  migrated.                                                                    
     Most of  the people who  settled here were from  up the                                                                    
     Koyukuk  River, as  far as  the Dolbi  River, which  is                                                                    
     close to  Huslia. Even when  people settled  in Koyukuk                                                                    
     they  continued  to travel  up  the  Koyukuk to  winter                                                                    
     trapping camps and returned in the spring.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     The  Native name  for Koyukuk  is, Meneelghaadze  T'oh.                                                                    
     Meneelghaadze is  the name of the  mountain at Koyukuk.                                                                    
     Madeline Solomon, now deceased  Elder from Koyukuk, had                                                                    
     said  the  mountain  was named  Meneelghaadze,  because                                                                    
     long ago,  the Koyukon  people used to  go get  clay at                                                                    
     the mountain  and mix with  bird feathers to  make clay                                                                    
     pots. Eliza  Jones an Elder  from Koyukuk said  that in                                                                    
     Athabascan, "T'oh"  would be  added on, meaning  at the                                                                    
     base  of the  mountain. Meneelghaadze  T'oh means,  "at                                                                    
     the base of the Koyukuk Mountain."                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     Today  Koyukuk people  are still  living a  subsistence                                                                    
     lifestyle.   The   main   employment   is   the   local                                                                    
     government, clinic, school,  store and any firefighting                                                                    
     and construction seasonal jobs.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
2:23:38 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative Guttenberg  remembered Al  Wright and  told a                                                                    
story related to the individual.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Stoltze referred  to a  proclamation from  Cordova                                                                    
that supported  the bill  (copy on  file). He  asked whether                                                                    
there  was  support  from other  communities.  Ms.  Erickson                                                                    
replied  in  the affirmative.  Minto  and  Koyukuk had  both                                                                    
vocalized support for the legislation.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Stoltze requested that  the communities' support be                                                                    
officially  added to  the record.  Ms.  Erickson noted  that                                                                    
Minto had already created a sign with the new name.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
ANNETTE  KREITZER, STAFF,  REPRESENTATIVE  ALAN DICK,  noted                                                                    
that Al  Wright was not the  Wright brother who had  run for                                                                    
office.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
2:26:27 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Stoltze  understood how  important  it  was for  a                                                                    
community to  publicly appreciate  a member  who had  made a                                                                    
significant contribution.  He referred to street  names that                                                                    
had been named for members of his family.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Thomas MOVED to ADOPT Amendment 1:                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     Page 2, Line 23                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     Before Al Wright                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     Insert Minto -                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Stoltze OBJECTED for discussion.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Thomas  explained that  the amendment  inserted the                                                                    
word "Minto"  before "Al Wright"  on page 2, line  23. There                                                                    
being NO further OBJECTION, Amendment 1 was ADOPTED.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Thomas  spoke  to the  names  included  under  the                                                                    
legislation. He  explained that Marie  Smith Jones  had been                                                                    
the  last  fluent Eyak  speaker  and  deserved the  tribute.                                                                    
David  Henry  Elisovky,  David   Allen  Lape,  Warren  Allen                                                                    
Paulsen,  and Michael  Dean  Banta had  all  been killed  in                                                                    
Vietnam;  Cordova  had  experienced the  highest  per-capita                                                                    
loss in the  state. He discussed the  soldiers' families and                                                                    
told a story about the  involvement of other soldiers in the                                                                    
Vietnam War.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
2:32:24 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Thomas  MOVED  to  report  CSHB  246(FIN)  out  of                                                                    
committee   with   individual    recommendations   and   the                                                                    
accompanying fiscal  note. There being NO  OBJECTION, it was                                                                    
so ordered.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Stoltze referred the fiscal impact note.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
CSHB  246(FIN) was  REPORTED  out of  committee  with a  "do                                                                    
pass" recommendation and with a  new fiscal impact note from                                                                    
the Department of Transportation and Public Facilities.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
HB 248 was HEARD and HELD in Committee.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
HB 249 was HEARD and HELD in Committee.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
2:34:09 PM                                                                                                                    
AT EASE                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
2:35:58 PM                                                                                                                    
RECONVENED                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE BILL NO. 118                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     "An Act relating to a tax credit for corporate income                                                                      
     taxes paid for qualified research and development                                                                          
    expenditures; and providing for an effective date."                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
2:36:09 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair   Stoltze  referred   to  the   previously  adopted                                                                    
proposed committee substitute for HB 118.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CURTIS THAYER, DEPUTY  COMMISSIONER, DEPARTMENT OF COMMERCE,                                                                    
COMMUNITY  AND  ECONOMIC   DEVELOPMENT,  was  available  for                                                                    
questions.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Representative Gara  asked for  confirmation that  the state                                                                    
resource and  development (R&D) tax  credit would be  on top                                                                    
of the federal tax credit  and a person's ability to receive                                                                    
a the federal credit would  not be prejudiced by the state's                                                                    
adoption of a state R&D credit.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
BRUCE   TANGEMAN,   DEPUTY   COMMISSIONER,   TAX   DIVISION,                                                                    
DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE (DOR), responded in the affirmative.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Gara referred  to a  recent letter  from Mr.                                                                    
Tangeman clarifying  that the  R&D tax  credit could  not be                                                                    
stacked on  top of  any other  Alaska's Clear  and Equitable                                                                    
Share  (ACES) deductions  or credits.  The letter  specified                                                                    
that R&D  was excluded  by a regulation  under ACES.  He was                                                                    
concerned  that  the regulation  could  be  changed at  some                                                                    
point by the department;  he wondered whether the department                                                                    
had  an  objection  to putting  the  exclusion  language  in                                                                    
statute.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Tangeman  replied  that  AS  43.55.165  addressed  that                                                                    
exploration,  development,  or  the production  of  oil  was                                                                    
allowable under  the oil and gas  production tax. Regulation                                                                    
55.250  was  addressed  under  the  statute  and  explicitly                                                                    
stated  that   R&D  was   not  applicable;   therefore,  the                                                                    
department  believed  the  exclusion  was  clearly  included                                                                    
under current statute.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Gara  was in  agreement  with  DOR that  the                                                                    
credits should  not be stackable.  He was troubled  that the                                                                    
DOR regulation could  change in the future  and could result                                                                    
in  the  ability to  receive  R&D  credits  on top  of  ACES                                                                    
credits. Without  the regulation  he thought a  person could                                                                    
argue  that money  put into  R&D for  exploring, developing,                                                                    
and producing should be covered.                                                                                                
Mr. Tangeman  replied that  he did not  read the  statute in                                                                    
the  same way.  He noted  that the  regulation was  there to                                                                    
clarify  the statute;  it was  clear  what was  and was  not                                                                    
allowed. He thought  that any additions to  statute would be                                                                    
superfluous.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Gara was  uncomfortable  that the  exclusion                                                                    
only existed in regulation.  He wondered whether information                                                                    
indicating who received the tax credits would be public.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Tangeman  responded that  the  R&D  credits would  fall                                                                    
under  the  same  confidentiality statutes  that  other  tax                                                                    
payers did.  The department would  be able to  aggregate and                                                                    
provide information for up to three or more taxpayers.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Stoltze asked  whether the statute was  the same as                                                                    
the one that  applied to film credits.  Mr. Tangeman replied                                                                    
in the affirmative.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Gara asked  whether  the way  the money  was                                                                    
spent would  be made public.  Mr. Tangeman responded  in the                                                                    
affirmative; DOR  was currently working on  a report related                                                                    
to oil  and gas  tax credits.  The department  could provide                                                                    
the types of expenses that the credits were used on.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Representative   Gara   understood   that  the   state   was                                                                    
comfortable giving  out $30  million or  $40 million  in R&D                                                                    
tax credits;  however, he wondered  whether the  state would                                                                    
be  able to  afford  to  give out  hundreds  of millions  of                                                                    
dollars  if  the demand  was  there.  He asked  whether  the                                                                    
department  had a  problem putting  a cap  on the  amount of                                                                    
money the  state would spend  or putting a  sunset provision                                                                    
on the  legislation to  determine how  well the  program was                                                                    
working.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Tangeman answered  that the department did  not know how                                                                    
long it would take for a  company to begin work, realize the                                                                    
credit, and realize the tax that  would allow it to take the                                                                    
tax credit again  in the future. He believed  that setting a                                                                    
sunset date may discourage  a company that could potentially                                                                    
need  a  longer  period  to realize  the  credit.  The  bill                                                                    
currently  allowed a  company to  carry  forward an  expense                                                                    
from year to year.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
2:43:54 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative Doogan believed that  the bill implemented an                                                                    
unlimited  number  of  cost  and   credits  without  a  good                                                                    
definition of what  the credits were and what  they could be                                                                    
used for. He wondered whether  the effect of the legislation                                                                    
would  create a  situation  in which  an  unknown number  of                                                                    
applicants were eligible for an unknown amount of money.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Tangeman responded  that the  purpose  was to  increase                                                                    
expenditures  in  the state.  The  goal  was for  Alaska  to                                                                    
receive  a larger  portion  of the  R&D  that was  occurring                                                                    
throughout the  U.S.; there would  need to be  companies and                                                                    
plants driving  the state's economy  in order to  realize an                                                                    
expenditure  and tax  credit. He  hoped the  credits were  a                                                                    
tremendous success because it  would mean that a significant                                                                    
amount of  money was  spent on  R&D in  the state.  He added                                                                    
that the R&D  could be used later for  a project exclusively                                                                    
in Alaska  or for a location  outside of the state,  but the                                                                    
point was  to encourage  upfront expenditures to  take place                                                                    
in the state.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Doogan surmised  that the  legislation would                                                                    
open  a window  into the  current tax  structure that  would                                                                    
decrease  the amount  of money  available for  the state  to                                                                    
designate to  programs. Based on DOR  testimony, he believed                                                                    
there was no  way to examine the impact or  to determine the                                                                    
potential expense  to the  state. As  he understood  it, the                                                                    
bill represented  a blank check  for anything called  R&D in                                                                    
the state.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Tangeman noted  that the under the  legislation, the tax                                                                    
credit  was taken  against  the tax  liability  for new  R&D                                                                    
only. He  hoped the incentive would  encourage a significant                                                                    
amount of  R&D and  an abundance  of new  tax payers  in the                                                                    
state.  The  carry  forward had  been  included  because  it                                                                    
allowed companies that  may not have a tax  liability in the                                                                    
first couple  of years to  carry expenditures  forward. Once                                                                    
the  companies began  realizing a  tax liability  they would                                                                    
realize  the credits  and subsequently  there  would be  new                                                                    
money for the state.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Representative Doogan  recounted that  the credits  were not                                                                    
saleable  or  transferable,  they   were  strictly  for  R&D                                                                    
conducted in Alaska,  and they were limited by  tax payer or                                                                    
tax  project; however,  the actual  financial liability  was                                                                    
currently unknown. Mr. Tangeman replied in the affirmative.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Costello asked  for  an  explanation of  the                                                                    
indeterminate  fiscal note  from DOR.  Mr. Tangeman  replied                                                                    
that the  fiscal note was  indeterminate because  the credit                                                                    
was for  new R&D that had  not taken place. The  goal was to                                                                    
drive new  activity, but the  new R&D could be  conducted by                                                                    
current taxpayers.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
2:50:28 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative Costello asked for  verification that DOR was                                                                    
not  currently collecting  information  from companies  that                                                                    
had a  corporate tax liability  and the kinds  of activities                                                                    
they were  conducting; therefore,  the current level  of R&D                                                                    
occurring in the state was not known.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Tangeman  answered that DOR was  collecting the specific                                                                    
type of information.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Costello surmised  that currently  there was                                                                    
not any R&D occurring and  that the legislation was intended                                                                    
to attract the  activity. Mr. Tangeman replied  that R&D was                                                                    
currently underway, but not at the desired level.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Representative Neuman  gathered that  "new" R&D  referred to                                                                    
new  innovative development  technology  (e.g.  new ways  to                                                                    
produce oil or smelt minerals) and  did not just mean new to                                                                    
the state. Mr. Tangeman replied in the affirmative.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Gara thought  new ways  to produce  oil were                                                                    
excluded  from the  legislation. Mr.  Tangeman replied  that                                                                    
R&D  on  oil  production  that   had  not  taken  place  was                                                                    
available to  be taken against a  company's corporate income                                                                    
tax, but not  production tax. He expounded that  R&D was not                                                                    
an acceptable qualified capital  expenditure against a lease                                                                    
expenditure under the production tax.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Gara opined  that some  companies that  were                                                                    
currently using the  20 percent federal tax  credit would be                                                                    
given  an additional  20  percent tax  credit  for R&D  they                                                                    
would have done anyway.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Tangeman  responded  that  companies  currently  taking                                                                    
advantage  of  the R&D  would  only  receive credit  on  the                                                                    
amount above their last three-year  average. For example, if                                                                    
a  company spent  $1 million  annually for  three years  and                                                                    
then spent  $2 million, the  additional $1 million  would be                                                                    
eligible for the credit.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Representative   Gara  did   not  feel   that  the   current                                                                    
information  made public  related to  ACES and  film credits                                                                    
was substantial; it  was hard to evaluate  whether money was                                                                    
being  spent well  because  the  way it  was  spent was  not                                                                    
divulged. He wondered whether the  R&D tax credit would fall                                                                    
into the same category.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Tangeman  responded that DOR was  currently presenting a                                                                    
five-year look-back  to another  House committee;  the look-                                                                    
back shed light  on the type of expenditures  that had taken                                                                    
place.  He  explained  that taxpayer  information  was  held                                                                    
confidential; current statute specified  that a DOR employee                                                                    
could  be fined  $5000  and could  receive  a two-year  jail                                                                    
sentence  for releasing  inappropriate information.  He felt                                                                    
that it  was his responsibility to  err on the side  of over                                                                    
protection  of confidential  information; tax  payers had  a                                                                    
right  to keep  their information  confidential. There  were                                                                    
statutes that  allowed the department to  aggregate and make                                                                    
information  public. The  Revenue Source  Book included  the                                                                    
DOR  annual   report  and  contained  the   information.  He                                                                    
continued  that  the  department  was  available  to  answer                                                                    
questions related  to the issue,  but followed  statute very                                                                    
strictly.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
2:56:13 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Guttenberg had  never  felt  that there  had                                                                    
been  enough   of  an  understanding  of   what  the  taxes,                                                                    
deductions,  and credits  actually were.  He pointed  to Mr.                                                                    
Tangeman's  explanation  of  how   strongly  he  felt  about                                                                    
protecting taxpayer's  confidentiality. He stressed  that he                                                                    
felt even stronger that he  needed all of the information he                                                                    
could get in  order to make decisions; he  pointed to Alaska                                                                    
State Review  Board criticism of the  department for keeping                                                                    
public  items confidential.  He had  heard the  "McDonald's"                                                                    
analogy that  if a tax payer  stamped something confidential                                                                    
that DOR  was not able to  release it. He wondered  how much                                                                    
the department could release that  would help legislators to                                                                    
understand what  was in  some of the  reports. He  asked how                                                                    
far the department needed to go related to confidentiality.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Tangeman  believed  the  reference  was  related  to  a                                                                    
legislative hearing that  had taken place in  the Senate. He                                                                    
did  not feel  that  it  was appropriate  for  the state  to                                                                    
comment on  an ongoing  case; additionally,  the information                                                                    
was only related to one  side of the litigation. He believed                                                                    
the McDonald's analogy was ridiculous.  He explained that if                                                                    
someone   provided   the   department  with   a   piece   of                                                                    
confidential information on a  taxpayer and then released it                                                                    
in a  public forum, DOR  would still  not have the  right to                                                                    
release  the information.  He reiterated  that DOR  was very                                                                    
careful about the information that it was provided.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Guttenberg had  been referring  to documents                                                                    
in  a court  case. He  noted that  after the  Alaska Supreme                                                                    
Court  ruled   on  the  case   it  was  possible   that  the                                                                    
legislature would  gain a better understanding  of documents                                                                    
that  it should  have been  granted access  to. He  had been                                                                    
very  concerned  about  taxpayers' ability  to  confuse  the                                                                    
issue.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Neuman  communicated   that  developing  and                                                                    
applying  for patents  qualified  under the  confidentiality                                                                    
clause.  He  asked  for verification  that  the  release  of                                                                    
information  related to  applications for  patents would  be                                                                    
illegal in  a variety of  ways. Mr. Tangeman replied  in the                                                                    
affirmative.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
3:00:21 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Doogan  asked  for   a  description  of  the                                                                    
evaluation  process involved  in awarding  the tax  credits.                                                                    
Mr. Tangeman replied that it  was not an evaluation process.                                                                    
Eligibility was determined through an  audit of a tax return                                                                    
in  which  a  company  claimed a  R&D  expense;  there  were                                                                    
statutes in both  state and federal law  that explained what                                                                    
qualified as R&D.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Representative Doogan asked whether  the state would have to                                                                    
battle with  the federal  government on  the meaning  of R&D                                                                    
when the credits were applied  for in the state. He wondered                                                                    
whether the  state and federal processes  would be separate.                                                                    
Mr. Tangeman  replied that  the legislation  piggy-backed on                                                                    
federal statute.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Stoltze asked  members  to  provide amendments  in                                                                    
advance.  He   asked  whether  Amendments   1  and   4  from                                                                    
Representative  Gara were  identical.  He suggested  keeping                                                                    
Amendment   1   and  getting   rid   of   Amendment  4   for                                                                    
clarification purposes.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
3:04:21 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Stoltze clarified that  Amendments 1 through 3 were                                                                    
in member's packets and would potentially be offered.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Gara   MOVED  to   ADOPT  Amendment   1  27-                                                                    
GH1951\B.4 (Bullock, 2/9/12):                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
     Page 1, line 9:                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     Delete "the taxable year"                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     Insert "a taxable year ending before January 1, 2017,"                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     Page 2, line 13, following "report":                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     Insert "to the legislature"                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     Page 2, line 16, following "year,":                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     Insert "a description of the research and development                                                                      
     projects for which the credit was granted,"                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     Page 2, following line 24:                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     Insert a new bill section to read:                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     "*Sec. 2. AS 43.20.047 is repealed January 1, 2017."                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     Renumber the following bill section accordingly.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Stoltze OBJECTED.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Representative Gara  discussed that the bill  included a new                                                                    
tax credit system; the state did  not know how much it would                                                                    
cost  and the  R&D  was different  than  what was  occurring                                                                    
under  the  federal  tax  credit.  He  opined  that  it  was                                                                    
possible  the  state would  receive  what  it was  currently                                                                    
getting under the  federal tax credit; on  the other extreme                                                                    
it may cost the state so  much money that at a certain level                                                                    
it would  need to reduce  the percentage. He  explained that                                                                    
Amendment 1 specified that the  credit would be revisited in                                                                    
2017.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Stoltze asked  whether  the  amendment provided  a                                                                    
sunset.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Representative   Gara  replied   in   the  affirmative.   He                                                                    
communicated  that the  amendment would  allow companies  to                                                                    
use  the  credit  through  January   1,  2017  and  required                                                                    
companies  to provide  a description  of R&D  projects using                                                                    
the  credit.  He noted  that  the  law would  not  supersede                                                                    
federal patent  laws related  to confidentiality.  He opined                                                                    
that the  legislature should have a  better understanding on                                                                    
how the state's  money was spent in comparison  to other tax                                                                    
credits currently offered.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Neuman did  not  support  the amendment.  He                                                                    
referenced the proposed sunset provision  and noted that the                                                                    
bill  allowed companies  to  take credits  for  up to  seven                                                                    
years. He  thought there was  a compatibility  issue between                                                                    
the  two items.  He cited  page 2,  lines 4  through 7  "the                                                                    
expenditure is incurred,  the excess of the  tax credit over                                                                    
the  liability  may  be  carried forward  for  up  to  seven                                                                    
years."  He  thought the  length  of  time was  appropriate,                                                                    
given the goal of increased  development; the time allowed a                                                                    
company to carry-forward credits  until it began production.                                                                    
Additionally,  it  would  be  difficult  for  new  companies                                                                    
working  to develop  new  industry and  new  oil to  operate                                                                    
under the sunset  timeline. He added that he did  not have a                                                                    
problem with  the segment of  the amendment that  dealt with                                                                    
reporting information to the legislature.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Stoltze thought the  amendment was divisible, given                                                                    
that the policy debate was  on the sunset language. He asked                                                                    
Representative Gara  whether he  would object to  a division                                                                    
of the amendment.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Representative Gara  was not  opposed to  a division  of the                                                                    
amendment.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Stoltze clarified  that Amendment  1 27-GH1951\B.4                                                                    
would be  divided into  1a and  1b as  follows and  would be                                                                    
renumbered accordingly:                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     Amendment 1a (lines 5 through 11)                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     Page 2, line 13, following "report":                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     Insert "to the legislature"                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     Page 2, line 16, following "year,":                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     Insert "a description of the research and development                                                                      
     projects for which the credit was granted,"                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
    Amendment 1b (lines 1 through 4 and 12 through 16)                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     Page 1, line 9:                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     Delete "the taxable year"                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     Insert "a taxable year ending before January 1, 2017,"                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     Page 2, following line 24:                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     Insert a new bill section to read:                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     "*Sec. 2. AS 43.20.047 is repealed January 1, 2017."                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     Renumber the following bill section accordingly.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
3:11:45 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative   Neuman   pointed   to   the   language   "a                                                                    
description  of the  research and  development projects  for                                                                    
which the credit was granted"  and noted that developing and                                                                    
applying for  patents qualified. He thought  the state could                                                                    
run into  problems when  looking for  a description  of work                                                                    
conducted if patents were involved.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Tangeman  agreed that there  could be a  potential issue                                                                    
when patents  were involved;  a description  of the  type of                                                                    
work would shed  light on the type of  business and expenses                                                                    
the company was attempting to incur.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Neuman was  not  comfortable with  Amendment                                                                    
1a.  He explained  that developing  prototypes, models,  and                                                                    
potentially software  technology qualified. He  believed the                                                                    
information  could be  highly confidential.  He opined  that                                                                    
the word "report" in Amendment 1a was too open-ended.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Tangeman  answered that the  purpose of R&D was  to look                                                                    
for new ways to improve. He  agreed that it was important to                                                                    
be  careful with  information  that  was divulged  publicly,                                                                    
given  that it  might discourage  a company  from conducting                                                                    
its research in Alaska.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Neuman  noted  that DOR  currently  provided                                                                    
reports  to the  legislature that  indicated how  much money                                                                    
would be  spent on  similar items such  as film  credits. He                                                                    
did  not  believe  the legislation  included  any  different                                                                    
report  requirements that  were  beyond standard  reporting.                                                                    
Mr.  Tangeman replied  that Amendment  1a would  add another                                                                    
level of  reporting that went above  and beyond requirements                                                                    
for similar tax credits.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Representative Edgmon  supported Amendment 1a.  He explained                                                                    
that it was  possible to provide a description  that did not                                                                    
contain specific  detail. He opined  that the  amendment was                                                                    
general  enough  that  it  would   be  possible  to  provide                                                                    
categories  of   information  that  did  not   compromise  a                                                                    
company's  proprietary material.  He clarified  that he  did                                                                    
not support Amendment 1b.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
3:15:49 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Thayer pointed  to a document that had  been provided to                                                                    
the  committee on  February  8, 2012.  He  relayed that  the                                                                    
federal  government had  a 2008  list  of corporations  that                                                                    
paid R&D tax credits; it  included broad categories such as,                                                                    
manufacturing information,  professional scientific, mining,                                                                    
transportation   warehousing,   real  estate,   agriculture,                                                                    
forestry, and seafood. He furthered  that the categories may                                                                    
have been broad enough for the state's purposes.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Representative   Gara  was   not   concerned  about   patent                                                                    
information, given  that it  was already  confidential under                                                                    
federal law. Mr. Tangeman did  not have a comment related to                                                                    
the legal issue.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Costello  MOVED  to AMEND  Amendment  1a  to                                                                    
insert "type  of" before  "research" on  line 9.  The intent                                                                    
was that the  R&D category could be reported  similar to the                                                                    
way categories were reported by the federal government.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Representative Gara thought that  the amendment to Amendment                                                                    
1a was  too general.  He was happy  to exclude  patents from                                                                    
the  reporting requirement.  He noted  his objection  to the                                                                    
amendment to Amendment 1a.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
A roll call vote was taken  on the motion to amend Amendment                                                                    
1a.                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
IN FAVOR: Wilson, Costello, Thomas, Stolze                                                                                      
OPPOSED: Doogan, Edgmon, Gara, Guttenberg, Neuman                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
The MOTION FAILED (5-4).                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Representatives Fairclough  and Joule  were absent  from the                                                                    
vote.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
A roll call vote was taken on Amendment 1a.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
IN FAVOR: Doogan, Edgmon, Gara, Guttenberg, Stolze                                                                              
OPPOSED: Costello, Wilson, Neuman, Thomas                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
The MOTION PASSED (5-4).                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Representatives Fairclough  and Joule  were absent  from the                                                                    
vote.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
3:20:47 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative Gara MOVED to ADOPT Amendment 1b.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Guttenberg noted  his potential  conflict of                                                                    
interest on the  research credits, given his  ownership of a                                                                    
cut flower business. He explained  that he could potentially                                                                    
benefit from  the credit if  he turned his business  into an                                                                    
experimental farm.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Representative Costello  did not  support Amendment  1b. She                                                                    
thought the  amendment would add to  the existing complexity                                                                    
of  the Alaska  tax system.  She explained  that the  sunset                                                                    
provision would  take place prior  to the end of  the seven-                                                                    
year  carry-forward that  was included  in the  legislation.                                                                    
She believed  the amendment would essentially  gut the bill,                                                                    
but she understood that the  intent was to review the impact                                                                    
of the legislation. She opined  that the intent was achieved                                                                    
in the  bill under the  provision that would require  DOR to                                                                    
report on credit activity.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Representative Gara  understood the  concern related  to the                                                                    
carry-forward provision. He spoke  on a conceptual amendment                                                                    
that  would  allow  the carry-forward  portion  to  continue                                                                    
through 2024.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Stoltze would not accept a conceptual amendment.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
3:24:23 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative Gara  WITHDREW Amendment  1b with  the intent                                                                    
to incorporate input  from members into an  amendment on the                                                                    
House floor.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Gara   MOVED  to   ADOPT  Amendment   2  27-                                                                    
GH1951\B.1 (Bullock, 2/6/12):                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
     Page 2, line 10, following "AS 43.20.011(e)":                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
          Insert "or AS 43.55,"                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Stoltze OBJECTED.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Gara referred  to a  letter he  had received                                                                    
from Mr.  Tangeman. He  noted that  DOR staff  had testified                                                                    
that under  ACES the department had  a regulation specifying                                                                    
that R&D expenditures could not  be deducted or credited. He                                                                    
stressed that  the regulation could be  changed and surmised                                                                    
that DOR must have  thought its implementation was necessary                                                                    
to clarify  existing statute. Amendment 2  inserted language                                                                    
into the  legislation that would  prohibit the use of  a R&D                                                                    
credit on top of a credit or deduction allowed under ACES.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Tangeman  explained  that there  were  three  statutory                                                                    
tests that applied under AS 43.55.165(a), subsection (B):                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     (i) the costs must be incurred upstream of the point                                                                       
     of production of oil and gas                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     (ii) the costs must be ordinary and necessary costs of                                                                     
     exploring   for,    developing,   or    producing,   as                                                                    
     applicable, oil or gas deposits                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     (iii) the costs must be direct costs of exploring for,                                                                     
     developing, or producing, as applicable, oil or gas                                                                        
     deposits                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Tangeman  believed that the  R&D costs failed  all three                                                                    
of the  tests and that  the regulation was very  explicit in                                                                    
backing  up the  statute. He  opined that  the inability  to                                                                    
stack credits was thoroughly covered.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Stoltze asked  whether  Mr. Tangeman  had a  value                                                                    
judgment  recommendation on  Amendment 2.  Mr. Tangeman  did                                                                    
not believe Amendment 2 was required.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
3:27:51 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Neuman did  not  support  the amendment.  He                                                                    
provided an example  of a new mining  company conducting R&D                                                                    
that did  not yet pay  production tax. He noted  that owners                                                                    
may decide to sell the company  or its patents and may never                                                                    
pay the  production tax.  He pointed  to many  new companies                                                                    
coming to  the state in search  of new oil and  gas with new                                                                    
innovative techniques and noted  some companies may not make                                                                    
it seven years.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Representative Costello voiced  opposition to the amendment.                                                                    
She thought  the statute was  clear and that  adding another                                                                    
statute to the  bill would potentially clutter  the law. She                                                                    
thought  the statute  clearly  dealt  with corporate  income                                                                    
tax; there were no R&D  projects that were attributed to the                                                                    
state's production  tax. She believed  a history  of clarity                                                                    
had been established  on the issue. She  pointed to frequent                                                                    
discussions  on  ACES  and  opined  that  it  was  sometimes                                                                    
forgotten that many companies paid corporate income taxes.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
A roll call vote was taken on Amendment 2.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
IN FAVOR: Gara, Guttenberg                                                                                                      
OPPOSED: Neuman,  Wilson, Costello, Doogan,  Edgmon, Thomas,                                                                    
Stoltze                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
The MOTION FAILED (7-2).                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Representatives Fairclough  and Joule  were absent  from the                                                                    
vote.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
3:31:25 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Gara   MOVED  to   ADOPT  Amendment   3  27-                                                                    
GH1951\B.2 (Bullock, 2/6/12):                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
     Page 2, following line 17:                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     Insert a new subsection to read:                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     "(f) The  total amount  of the credit  authorized under                                                                    
     this  section   for  all   taxpayers  may   not  exceed                                                                    
     $50,000,000  in a  calendar  year.  The department  may                                                                    
     adopt  regulations  that   provide  the  standards  and                                                                    
     procedures to  allocate the amount of  credit available                                                                    
     to each taxpayer  when the total amount  of tax credits                                                                    
     claimed  by  all taxpayers  under  this  section for  a                                                                    
     calendar year exceeds $50,000,000."                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     Reletter the following subsection accordingly.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Stoltze OBJECTED.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Gara  cited  his  preference  for  a  sunset                                                                    
provision,  but in  its absence  he  pointed to  a need  for                                                                    
fiscal responsibility and to see  how the credits were used.                                                                    
Amendment 3  would impose an  annual $50 million cap  on the                                                                    
expenditure  of state  funds; credits  would be  prorated if                                                                    
more than  $50 million  were applied  for. He  discussed the                                                                    
likelihood  of dwindling  state revenues  in the  future and                                                                    
stressed  that  spending state  money  to  fund millions  of                                                                    
dollars  of tax  credits would  put  a large  strain on  the                                                                    
state's ability to operate.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Stoltze commented  that DOR could cut  off the list                                                                    
at  $50  million and  could  chose  to prorate  credits.  He                                                                    
clarified  that the  department had  not weighed  in on  the                                                                    
issue of prorating.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Tangeman replied  that DOR was opposed  to the amendment                                                                    
and a cap.  He explained that the tax credit  would be taken                                                                    
against new money brought into  the state; therefore, if the                                                                    
$50 million level was reached  the state would be generating                                                                    
revenues well beyond the number.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
3:34:56 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative Neuman  vocalized opposition to  Amendment 3.                                                                    
He  pointed  to  page  1,  line 7  of  the  legislation  and                                                                    
surmised that  individual tax payers  were limited to  a $10                                                                    
million tax  liability, which was  prorated per  company. He                                                                    
did not know why the state would  put a limit on its goal to                                                                    
incentivize investment from new companies.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Costello was  not in  favor of  Amendment 3.                                                                    
She  was  concerned  that the  amendment  would  create  two                                                                    
groups of people;  once the $50 million cap  was reached the                                                                    
department would need  to craft new regulation  to deal with                                                                    
additional companies interested in  the credit. She believed                                                                    
it  was a  bad precedent  to change  the rules  of the  game                                                                    
after  a  certain  cost  was  reached.  She  understood  the                                                                    
rationale  and believed  it was  addressed in  the reporting                                                                    
requirement that  would allow  the legislature  to determine                                                                    
whether it wanted to continue with the program.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Doogan was  supportive  of  Amendment 3.  He                                                                    
relayed  that the  legislature had  handed out  "tax credits                                                                    
like they  were lollypops"  during his  time in  office. The                                                                    
R&D  tax  credit  was unlimited  and  was  potentially  very                                                                    
expensive  for  the state.  He  did  not believe  that  what                                                                    
companies  would  be  required  to pay  the  state  if  they                                                                    
received the credit was definitive.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Guttenberg asked  whether an  expenditure of                                                                    
$50  million would  be 20  percent of  what taxpayers  would                                                                    
pay. Mr. Tangeman  replied that the amount  would be against                                                                    
a taxpayer's tax liability.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Representative Guttenberg  thought the  $50 million  cap was                                                                    
appropriate. He  was very supportive of  research, but would                                                                    
be suspicious  of a  program that would  allow a  company to                                                                    
spend such a high amount in  one year. He believed the state                                                                    
should spend a  couple of years watching the  tax credit use                                                                    
prior  to  spending over  $50  million.  He understood  that                                                                    
research up  north could be  extensive, but having  a better                                                                    
understanding of  "what we're doing  at the end of  the day"                                                                    
was also very important.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
3:39:00 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Stoltze  echoed prior concerns about  not including                                                                    
a  cap on  tax credits.  He believed  the legislature  could                                                                    
reexamine  the  credits several  years  later  if they  were                                                                    
successful.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Representative Gara  MOVED to AMEND  Amendment 3, line  5 to                                                                    
replace the  word "allocate" with "prorate."  There being NO                                                                    
OBJECTION, it was so ordered.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Wilson opposed  the amendment.  She believed                                                                    
the  goal of  the legislation  was  to bring  the "best  and                                                                    
brightest" to the state to  conduct R&D. The companies would                                                                    
need to hire  employees to undergo the research  and only if                                                                    
they were successful  and had a tax liability  would they be                                                                    
eligible to  receive the  credit. She  hoped the  credit was                                                                    
very successful.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
A roll call vote was taken on Amendment 3.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
IN FAVOR: Guttenberg, Doogan, Gara, Stoltze                                                                                     
OPPOSED: Neuman, Wilson, Costello, Edgmon, Thomas                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
The MOTION FAILED (5-4).                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Representatives Fairclough  and Joule  were absent  from the                                                                    
vote.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
3:42:59 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Stoltze referenced  the indeterminate  fiscal note                                                                    
from DOR.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Thomas  MOVED  to  report  CSHB  118(L&C)  out  of                                                                    
committee   with   individual    recommendations   and   the                                                                    
accompanying fiscal notes.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CSHB  118(L&C)  was  REPORTED  out  of  committee  with  "no                                                                    
recommendation"  and  with  accompanying  new  indeterminate                                                                    
fiscal  note from  the Department  of Revenue  and new  zero                                                                    
fiscal  note  from the  Department  of  Labor and  Workforce                                                                    
Development. [Note:  The committee  rescinded its  action to                                                                    
report  out CSHB  118(L&C) on  2/15/12  and took  corrective                                                                    
action to report out CSHB 118(FIN).]                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Stoltze  discussed the  schedule for  the following                                                                    
day.                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
ADJOURNMENT                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
3:44:34 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
The meeting was adjourned at 3:44 PM.                                                                                           

Document Name Date/Time Subjects
HB 246 Sponsor Statement.pdf HFIN 2/13/2012 1:30:00 PM
HB 246
HB 246 Supporting Docs Leonard Olson.pdf HFIN 2/13/2012 1:30:00 PM
HB 246
HB 246 Supporting Docs Cordova Resolution.pdf HFIN 2/13/2012 1:30:00 PM
HB 246
HB 246 Supporting Docs Short Bios.pdf HFIN 2/13/2012 1:30:00 PM
HB 246
HB 246 Supporting Docs Veterans Memorial.pdf HFIN 2/13/2012 1:30:00 PM
HB 246
HB 248 Al Wright Minto Airport Sponsor statement.docx HFIN 2/13/2012 1:30:00 PM
HB 248
HB 249 Sponsor Statement.docx HFIN 2/13/2012 1:30:00 PM
HB 249
HB118 CS FIN Workdraft B Amendment Gara.pdf HFIN 2/13/2012 1:30:00 PM
HB 118
HB118 Other jursidiction RD Tax Credit updated 02-10-12.pdf HFIN 2/13/2012 1:30:00 PM
HB 118
HB246 Amendment 1- Thomas.pdf HFIN 2/13/2012 1:30:00 PM
HB 246
HB 246 CS WORKDRAFT FIN 27LS0921-B.pdf HFIN 2/13/2012 1:30:00 PM
HB 246
CSHB246-NEW FN-DOT-NRHA-2-13-12.pdf HFIN 2/13/2012 1:30:00 PM
HB 246
HB118 Amendments 2-3 Gara.pdf HFIN 2/13/2012 1:30:00 PM
HB 118