Legislature(2005 - 2006)HOUSE FINANCE 519

03/15/2005 01:30 PM FINANCE


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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
-- Recessed to 5:00 --
HB 19 PESTICIDE & BROADCAST CHEMICALS
Heard & Held
HB 107 ATTY FEES: HUNTING/FISHING INTERFERENCE
Moved CSHB 107(FIN) Out of Committee
Bills Previously Heard/Scheduled
= HB 155 USE CRIMINAL FINES FOR YOUTH COURTS
Moved CSHB 155(JUD) Out of Committee
= SB 98 FAST TRACK SUPPLEMENTAL APPROPS/CBRF
Moved HCS CSSB 98(FIN) Out of Committee
= HB 66 APPROP: MENTAL HEALTH BUDGET
Heard & Held
= HB 67 APPROP: OPERATING BUDGET/LOANS/FUNDS/CBR
Heard & Held
                  HOUSE FINANCE COMMITTEE                                                                                       
                       March 15, 2005                                                                                           
                         1:54 P.M.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CALL TO ORDER                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Meyer called the House  Finance Committee meeting to                                                                   
order at 1:54:25 PM.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Representative Mike Chenault, Co-Chair                                                                                          
Representative Kevin Meyer, Co-Chair                                                                                            
Representative Bill Stoltze, Vice-Chair                                                                                         
Representative Eric Croft                                                                                                       
Representative Richard Foster                                                                                                   
Representative Mike Hawker                                                                                                      
Representative Mike Kelly                                                                                                       
Representative Carl Moses                                                                                                       
Representative Bruce Weyhrauch                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Representative Jim Holm                                                                                                         
Representative Reggie Joule                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
ALSO PRESENT                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Representative   Ralph   Samuels;   Sarah   Nielson,   Staff,                                                                   
Representative    Ralph    Samuels;   Jim    Pound,    Staff,                                                                   
Representative   Jay    Ramras;   Mike   Pawlowski,    Staff,                                                                   
Representative  Kevin  Meyer;  Anthony  Newman,  Division  of                                                                   
Juvenile  Justice, Department  of Health  & Social  Services;                                                                   
Kristin  Ryan, Director,  Division  of Environmental  Health,                                                                   
Department   of  Environmental   Conservation;  Senator   Ben                                                                   
Stevens;  Representative   Ethan  Berkowitz;   Nancy  Slagle,                                                                   
Director, Division of Administrative  Services, Department of                                                                   
Transportation  and Public Facilities;  Sharon Kelly,  Staff,                                                                   
Co-Chair  Chenault;  Cheryl  Frasca,  Director,  Division  of                                                                   
Management  & Budget,  Office  of the  Governor; Art  Chance,                                                                   
Labor  Relations  Director,  Division   of  Labor  Relations,                                                                   
Department   of   Administration,;   Pete   Ecklund,   Staff,                                                                   
Representative  Kevin  Meyer;  Joan  Brown,  Budget  Analyst,                                                                   
Office  of Management  and Budget  (OMB); Chris  Christensen,                                                                   
Staff Counsel,  Alaska Court System; Janet  Clarke, Assistant                                                                   
Commissioner,  Division of Finance  and Management  Services,                                                                   
Department of  Health and Social  Services; Nico  Bus, Acting                                                                   
Director, Division of Administrative  Services, Department of                                                                   
Natural  Resources;   Karen  Rehfeld,  Deputy   Commissioner,                                                                   
Department  of  Education  and   Early  Development;  Kathryn                                                                   
Daughhetee,  Director,   Administrative  Services   Division,                                                                   
Department of Law.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
PRESENT VIA TELECONFERENCE                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Jonathon Lack,  Attorney, Anchorage  Youth Court,  Anchorage;                                                                   
Jennifer Yuhas,  Executive Director, Alaska  Outdoor Council,                                                                   
Anchorage;  Virginia  Espenshade, Director,  Kenai  Peninsula                                                                   
Youth    Court,   Homer;    Lisa   Albert-Konecky,    Program                                                                   
Coordinator, Matsu Youth Court,  Matsu; Dr. Arndt Von Hippel,                                                                   
Anchorage;   Ken  Perry,   General   Manager,  Pest   Control                                                                   
Operators, Anchorage;  Emily Nenon, American  Cancer Society,                                                                   
Anchorage; Pam  Miller, Executive Director,  Alaska Community                                                                   
Action  on Toxics,  Anchorage;  Katie Aspen  Gavenus,  Homer;                                                                   
Dylan  Weiser,  Vice President,  Kachemak  Bay  Conservation,                                                                   
Homer.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
SUMMARY                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
HB 19     An Act relating to pesticides and broadcast                                                                           
          chemicals; and providing for an effective date.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
          HB 19 was HEARD and HELD for further consideration                                                                    
          on the fiscal notes.                                                                                                  
HB 66     An Act making appropriations  for the operating and                                                                   
          capital   expenses   of  the   state's   integrated                                                                   
          comprehensive mental  health program; and providing                                                                   
          for an effective date.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
          HB 66 was HEARD and HELD in Committee for further                                                                     
          consideration.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
HB 67     An Act making appropriations for the operating and                                                                    
          loan  program  expenses  of state  government,  for                                                                   
          certain programs,  and to capitalize  funds; making                                                                   
          appropriations   under   art.   IX,   sec.   17(c),                                                                   
          Constitution  of  the  State  of Alaska,  from  the                                                                   
          constitutional  budget reserve fund;  and providing                                                                   
          for an effective date.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
          HB 67  was HEARD and HELD in Committee  for further                                                                   
          consideration.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
HB 107    An  Act  providing for  the  award  of full  actual                                                                   
          attorney  fees and costs  to a person  aggrieved by                                                                   
          unlawful  obstruction   or  hindrance  of  hunting,                                                                   
          fishing,  or  viewing  of fish  or  game;  amending                                                                   
          Rules 79  and 82, Alaska Rules of  Civil Procedure;                                                                   
          and  amending Rule 508,  Alaska Rules  of Appellate                                                                   
          Procedure.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
          CS HB 107 (FIN) was reported out of Committee with                                                                    
          a "no recommendation"  and with zero note #1 by the                                                                   
          Department of  Fish & Game and zero note  #3 by the                                                                   
          Department of Law.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
HB 155    An  Act  relating  to   youth  courts  and  to  the                                                                   
          recommended  use  of  criminal  fines to  fund  the                                                                   
          activities   of  youth  courts;  and   relating  to                                                                   
          accounting for criminal fines.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
          CS HB 155 (JUD) was reported out of Committee with                                                                    
          a "do  pass" recommendation  and with zero  note #1                                                                   
          by  the Department of  Law and a  new zero  note by                                                                   
          the Department of Health & Social Services.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CS SB 98(FIN)  An  Act  making  supplemental  appropriations,                                                                   
          capital  appropriations, and other  appropriations;                                                                   
          amending  appropriations; making appropriations  to                                                                   
          capitalize funds; making  appropriations under art.                                                                   
          IX,  sec.  17(c),  Constitution  of  the  State  of                                                                   
          Alaska,  from  the  constitutional  budget  reserve                                                                   
          fund; and providing for an effective date.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
          HCS CSSB 98 (FIN) was REPORTED out of Committee                                                                       
          with a "do pass" recommendation.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
 1:54:51 PM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE BILL NO. 155                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     An Act relating to youth courts and to the recommended                                                                     
     use of criminal fines to fund the activities of youth                                                                      
     courts; and relating to accounting for criminal fines.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  RALPH  SAMUELS,  SPONSOR, offered  to  answer                                                                   
questions of the Committee.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair  Stoltze referenced  victim's  rights noting  that                                                                   
the only complaint  that he has heard about  the Youth Courts                                                                   
is that  victims do not always  know the dispensation  of the                                                                   
offender.     There   is  no   insurance   unless  there   is                                                                   
restitution.   He  asked  if there  was  anyway around  that.                                                                   
Representative  Samuels  deferred  the question  to  Attorney                                                                   
Lack.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
JONATHON  LACK,  (TESTIFIED  VIA  TELECONFERENCE),  ATTORNEY,                                                                   
VOLUNTEER   WITH  THE  ANCHORAGE   YOUTH  COURT,   ANCHORAGE,                                                                   
explained that  because these are juvenile  proceedings, they                                                                   
are confidential even to the victim.   If the victims come to                                                                   
court, they  find out what  the sentencing  is.  There  is no                                                                   
formal  way  to  inform  them  that  the  sentence  has  been                                                                   
completed.   However, if the  sentence is not  completed, the                                                                   
guilty  person is  referred back  to  the juvenile  probation                                                                   
officer, at which  point, they return to whatever  the normal                                                                   
process is for any offender not completing the program.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Stoltze inquired if  victims are allowed to attend                                                                   
the proceedings.  Mr. Lack replied that they are.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
1:59:51 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Stoltze  understood that in the Youth  Court, once                                                                   
guilt  has   been  admitted  to,   then  they   proceed  with                                                                   
sentencing.   He  asked  if there  could  be  action from  an                                                                   
adversarial  trial.   Mr. Lack  explained  that the  juvenile                                                                   
defenders are  not actually able  to plead guilty;  they have                                                                   
to plead "no contest" because  of the rules in State statute.                                                                   
In  most  cases  that  go to  trial,  it  is  an  adversarial                                                                   
proceeding, in  which the prosecution has to  call witnesses,                                                                   
often times  the victims.  He  added that State  Statute does                                                                   
allow the Courts to subpoena witnesses.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
2:01:35 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
ANTHONY NEWMAN,  DIVISION OF JUVENILE JUSTICE,  DEPARTMENT OF                                                                   
HEALTH & SOCIAL SERVICES, offered  to answer questions of the                                                                   
Committee.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
VIRGINIA   ESPENSHADE,   (TESTIFIED    VIA   TELECONFERENCE),                                                                   
DIRECTOR, KENAI  PENINSULA YOUTH  COURT, HOMER, testified  in                                                                   
support  of  the legislation.    She  pointed out  that  many                                                                   
times, a  written apology is required  to the victim.   Focus                                                                   
on the victim's involvement is  strong and often is mandated.                                                                   
The perception  that victims are  left out comes  from issues                                                                   
of confidentiality.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
2:03:30 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
LISA ALBERT-KONECKY, (TESTIFIED  VIA TELECONFERENCE), PROGRAM                                                                   
COORDINATOR, MATSU  YOUTH COURT, MATSU, testified  in support                                                                   
of the  legislation.  She explained  that in the  Matsu area,                                                                   
there  is  a victim's  justice  coordinator  who  provides  a                                                                   
victim   impact  statement.      She  stressed   that   early                                                                   
intervention really works.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
   ·    There have been over 1100 juvenile referrals since                                                                      
        1996 in the Matsu Valley Youth Court with a 92%                                                                         
        success rate over the last eight years;                                                                                 
   ·    $10,200 dollars in restitution payments for the                                                                         
        victims has been received;                                                                                              
   ·    There have been over 15,000 work service volunteer                                                                      
        hours.                                                                                                                  
   ·    She mentioned the educational classes offered in                                                                        
        Matsu.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
2:06:24 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative Hawker MOVED to  report CS HB 155 (JUD) out of                                                                   
Committee  with  individual  recommendations   and  with  the                                                                   
accompanying fiscal notes.  There  being NO OBJECTION, it was                                                                   
so ordered.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CS HB  155 (JUD)  was reported  out of  Committee with  a "do                                                                   
pass" recommendation and with  zero note #1 by the Department                                                                   
of Law  and a  new zero note  by the  Department of  Health &                                                                   
Social Services.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
2:07:55 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE BILL NO. 107                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     An Act providing  for the award of full  actual attorney                                                                   
     fees  and  costs  to  a  person  aggrieved  by  unlawful                                                                   
     obstruction  or   hindrance  of  hunting,   fishing,  or                                                                   
     viewing  of fish  or  game; amending  Rules  79 and  82,                                                                   
     Alaska Rules of Civil Procedure;  and amending Rule 508,                                                                   
     Alaska Rules of Appellate Procedure.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
JIM POUND,  STAFF, REPRESENTATIVE  JAY RAMRAS, reported  that                                                                   
HB 107 is a change to existing  statute regarding persons who                                                                   
hunt, fish, trap, or view wildlife  in Alaska.  Presently, if                                                                   
any  of those  people are  obstructed  from participating  in                                                                   
that experience, they  can seek relief in court.   The courts                                                                   
are  permitted to  grant  damages for  most  of the  expenses                                                                   
except  reasonable  actual  attorney  fees and  costs.    The                                                                   
legislation  would allow the  judge to  grant full  costs and                                                                   
reasonable and actual attorney fees.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Pound continued,  pointing  out  that there  is  growing                                                                   
sentiment across the country that  disturbing wildlife in any                                                                   
manner is unacceptable, however,  hunting, fishing, trapping,                                                                   
and viewing wildlife are considered  an important way of life                                                                   
in  Alaska.   The  individuals or  groups,  who could  hinder                                                                   
wildlife experience,  know that  most people  will not  go to                                                                   
court because of the attorney  fees and costs associated with                                                                   
that type of litigation.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
He added that  Alaskans and visitors should  not be subjected                                                                   
to pay because of interference,  obstruction, or hindrance of                                                                   
that right.   The  legislation allows  for an opportunity  of                                                                   
the prevailing  party to recoup actual costs  associated with                                                                   
hindering that type experience.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Representative Hawker  asked the basis used  to determine the                                                                   
90% attorney fee  amount.  Mr. Pound responded  that resulted                                                                   
from Representative  Gruenberg, who was concerned  leaving it                                                                   
at 100%.   He thought there could  be more of a  potential of                                                                   
false litigation and filing and requested the change.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Representative   Hawker  asked   if   there  was   precedence                                                                   
elsewhere for  the 90% number.    Mr. Pound replied  there is                                                                   
not and  that in  eminent domain  cases, it is  at 100%.   He                                                                   
reiterated that 90% was unique.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Hawker  asked if  the sponsor  would  welcome                                                                   
changing  it  back to  100%.    Mr. Pound  replied  that  the                                                                   
sponsor would not object.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
2:11:19 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative Weyhrauch  referenced Subsection  3, regarding                                                                   
a person physically interfering  or tampering with equipment.                                                                   
Mr. Pound commented that language  was inserted because there                                                                   
have  been   situations  where  an  individual   cut  another                                                                   
person's trap line.  That person  was caught and they entered                                                                   
into  the  criminal process.    The  guilty person  was  only                                                                   
charged with criminal mischief.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Weyhrauch thought  that was  a "narrow"  lead                                                                   
and proposed other hypothetical  situations.  Mr. Pound noted                                                                   
that other  situations could be  addressed under  language in                                                                   
Section 2.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Weyhrauch  grilled  the  point.    Mr.  Pound                                                                   
advised  that the  courts  had already  interpreted  existing                                                                   
language.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
2:14:35 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Weyhrauch   asked  who  would   be  entitled,                                                                   
outside  of   the  law  enforcement  officers,   to  instruct                                                                   
regarding hunting,  fishing, etc. and asked if  that could be                                                                   
a  property owner  if  someone was  trespassing.   Mr.  Pound                                                                   
noted  that AS  16.05.0790(e)  explains  the lawful  hunting,                                                                   
fishing and trapping practices  on private land given consent                                                                   
of the owner.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Weyhrauch  asked  if the  90%  payment  would                                                                   
require a  2/3 vote because of  the direct rule change.   Mr.                                                                   
Pound said yes.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair  Stoltze  inquired if  those  types  of cases  are                                                                   
difficult   to  prove.     Mr.  Pound   clarified  that   the                                                                   
legislation only deals with being  out in the field or on the                                                                   
water.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
2:16:34 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Stoltze pointed out  a letter in the file from the                                                                   
National  Rifle Association  (NRA).   Mr.  Pound stated  that                                                                   
there would be testimony from the Alaska Outdoor Council.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Representative Weyhrauch asked  if the legislation would only                                                                   
apply to "wild" fish and game.  Mr. Pound said yes.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
2:17:16 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
JENNIFER YUHAS,   (TESTIFIED  VIA TELECONFERENCE),  EXECUTIVE                                                                   
DIRECTOR, ALASKA  OUTDOOR COUNCIL, ANCHORAGE,  voiced support                                                                   
for  HB 107.    Current statute  does  not  guarantee that  a                                                                   
citizen  can   be  awarded   attorney  fees  for   litigating                                                                   
incidences  of obstruction  abuse  from  hunting, fishing  or                                                                   
trapping.   The  changes in  the  proposed legislation  would                                                                   
bring necessary corrections to the existing statute.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
2:18:32 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Weyhrauch asked  why  commercial fishing  had                                                                   
not been included to Section 3,  Page 2.  Mr. Pound responded                                                                   
that  in  Section 3,  Line  18,  it  had  been added  to  the                                                                   
previous version of the bill.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
2:20:03 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Weyhrauch commented  that  falling under  the                                                                   
exclusion  of  that  sentence,  a person  would  have  to  be                                                                   
actively  engaged  in  commercial  fishing  in  order  to  be                                                                   
exempt.   They could be traveling  to, from or be  on fishing                                                                   
grounds to be  exempt.  Mr. Pound understood  that they would                                                                   
have to be actively fishing.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
2:20:56 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Hawker MOVED  to  ADOPT conceptual  Amendment                                                                   
#1, changing  the two  instances of 90%  to full  recovery of                                                                   
legal fees  at 100%.  That change  would be on Page  2, Lines                                                                   
18 & 19, and Page 2, Line 24, deleting "90% of".                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Representative   Weyhrauch  OBJECTED   for  the  purpose   of                                                                   
discussion.    Representative  Hawker repeated  the  proposed                                                                   
change.  Representative Weyrauch  understood that there would                                                                   
continue to  be judicial  discretion.  Representative  Hawker                                                                   
thought so.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Representative Weyhrauch WITHDREW his OBJECTION.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Representative Hawker  noted that his staff  was distributing                                                                   
the written version of Amendment #1.  (Copy on File).                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Weyhrauch thought  that  the proposed  change                                                                   
would  return  the legislation  back  to the  House  Resource                                                                   
Committee version.  He questioned  why the change was needed.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Representative Hawker requested  that Mr. Pound respond.  Mr.                                                                   
Pound  explained  that the  indirect  court  rule change  was                                                                   
still a  discussion of  argument in the  courts and  that the                                                                   
Supreme Court has not yet made a decision.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
2:26:01 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative Hawker WITHDREW conceptual Amendment #1.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Hawker MOVED to  ADOPT written Amendment  #1.                                                                   
(Copy on File).                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Weyhrauch  OBJECTED.    He commented  on  the                                                                   
proposed language regarding suing  for the damages because of                                                                   
the action.   If the case goes  to trail, all costs  would be                                                                   
charged  plus  the  reasonable  attorney  fees.    Mr.  Pound                                                                   
acknowledged  that  was correct.    Representative  Weyhrauch                                                                   
commented on "full and actual" attorney fees.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
2:28:49 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Croft   referenced  Section   D(2)  regarding                                                                   
prosecution.  He asked the instance of "lawfully".                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Hawker inquired if  that was relative  to the                                                                   
Amendment #1.  Representative Croft responded it was not.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Representative Weyrauch  WITHDREW his OBJECTION  to Amendment                                                                   
#1.   There  being  NO further  OBJECTION,  Amendment #1  was                                                                   
adopted.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Pound responded to the question  by Representative Croft.                                                                   
He  noted  that  "lawful" would  address  combat  fishing  on                                                                   
rivers.    Representative  Weyhrauch noted  an  example  that                                                                   
occurred fishing  on the  Kenai River.   Mr. Pound  responded                                                                   
that situation would be classified  as "lawfully" interfering                                                                   
and would be listed as intentional vandalism.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Discussion followed between Representative  Weyhrauch and Mr.                                                                   
Pound regarding the example.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
2:32:15 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Weyhrauch interjected  that  with passage  of                                                                   
the bill; both  sport and commercial fishermen  would have to                                                                   
take a lawyer into account while fishing.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Representative Foster MOVED to  report CS HB 107 (FIN) out of                                                                   
Committee  with  individual  recommendations   and  with  the                                                                   
accompanying fiscal notes.  There  being NO OBJECTION, it was                                                                   
so ordered.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CS  HB 107  (FIN)  was reported  out  of Committee  with  "no                                                                   
recommendation" and  with zero note  #1 by the  Department of                                                                   
Fish & Game and zero note #3 by the Department of Law.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
2:32:58 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE BILL NO. 19                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     An Act relating to pesticides and broadcast chemicals;                                                                     
     and providing for an effective date.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MIKE PAWLOWSKI, STAFF, REPRESENTATIVE  KEVIN MEYER, explained                                                                   
that there  are three  parts to the  legislation and  that he                                                                   
would address each separately.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
The first four  sections provide Department  of Environmental                                                                   
Conservation authority  to charge a fee to  manufacturers who                                                                   
register  pesticides  and  broadcast chemicals  for  sale  or                                                                   
distribution in the State.  He  added that every state in the                                                                   
nation  requires   chemical  companies   to  register   their                                                                   
chemicals with  the appropriate state agency  and that Alaska                                                                   
is the only state that does not charge a registration fee.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Pawlowski  noted  that  HB  19  would  not  establish  a                                                                   
specific fee  in statute,  but rather sets  a ceiling  on the                                                                   
fee  that the  Department could  charge a  manufacturer.   By                                                                   
putting  the   fee  in  regulation   with  a   limit,  allows                                                                   
flexibility to  the Department to ensure that  chemicals that                                                                   
do not have a  large enough market in Alaska  to support that                                                                   
annual fee, not to bear it.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Pawlowski  pointed out  that  Section 6  contains  other                                                                   
important provisions.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
   ·    The first portion of Section 6 (Lines 29 through 31)                                                                    
        requires a  person applying  pesticides or  broadcast                                                                   
        chemicals  in   a  public  place,   be  licensed   or                                                                   
        authorized by the Department.                                                                                           
   ·    Classes and training required for certification are                                                                     
        free, but the legislation  provides a charged  fee of                                                                   
        up to $25  for the license.   Fees collected  through                                                                   
        registration   and  licensing   would   support   the                                                                   
        regulations and enforcement of the  State's pesticide                                                                   
        and  broadcast  chemicals.    At  present  time,  the                                                                   
        programs are supported largely with general funds.                                                                      
   ·    The final provision in legislation is also found in                                                                     
        Section 6,  Line 31,  Page 3.   That section  directs                                                                   
        the Department  to  promulgate  a  reasonable  public                                                                   
        notice  requirement  that  includes   written  notice                                                                   
        posted on the application site as  to when pesticides                                                                   
        are applied  in  a public  place.   He  noted that  a                                                                   
        large portion  of  the public  is  interested in  the                                                                   
        chemicals that  they are exposed  to.  Public  notice                                                                   
        gives the  public an  opportunity  to make  decisions                                                                   
        for themselves about what they expose themselves to.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Pawlowski  summarized  that   the  essential  underlying                                                                   
purpose of HB 19 is to create  a pesticide program in Alaska,                                                                   
which the public can have confidence  in and supported by the                                                                   
sector being regulated.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
2:39:01 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Meyer  advised that  Alaska is  the only state  that                                                                   
does not have a  registration fee to cover those  costs.  Mr.                                                                   
Pawlowski acknowledged  that was correct.  No  fee is charged                                                                   
for the  chemical registration and  that the costs  were bore                                                                   
by the General Fund.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Mr.   Pawlowski  asked   the   Department  of   Environmental                                                                   
Conservation to address  the fiscal note.  He  noted that the                                                                   
fee is based  largely on an assumption of how  many chemicals                                                                   
would be registered in the State.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Representative Weyhrauch  asked the definition  of "broadcast                                                                   
chemical".   Mr. Pawlowski stated  that it is defined  as any                                                                   
chemical under  a certain  class that  is broadcast  into the                                                                   
air.   It can  include chemicals  that are  used to  suppress                                                                   
fires and/or oil spills.  The definition is large.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Weyrauch  inquired   if  roadside  herbicides                                                                   
would be  included.   Mr. Pawlowski replied  they would.   In                                                                   
response  to further  questions  by Representative  Weyrauch,                                                                   
Mr.  Pawlowski explained  that  herbicides would  have to  be                                                                   
applied in a  public place.  He referenced  the definition of                                                                   
public place, Section 6, Page 4, Lines 3-8.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Representative Weyrauch  asked about applications  to bed and                                                                   
breakfasts;  discussion  followed.    He  asked  why  hotels,                                                                   
motels  and restaurants  would  be excluded.   Mr.  Pawlowski                                                                   
pointed  out   that  grouping  is  covered  largely   by  the                                                                   
Department of Environmental Conservation's food code.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
2:42:38 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
KRISTIN  RYAN, DIRECTOR,  DIVISION  OF ENVIRONMENTAL  HEALTH,                                                                   
DEPARTMENT   OF   ENVIRONMENTAL    CONSERVATION,   ANCHORAGE,                                                                   
responded  to concerns  voiced  by Representative  Weyhrauch.                                                                   
She advised  that setting  the fee rate  in statute  could be                                                                   
problematic  and that  the proposed fee  would be  sufficient                                                                   
based on current costs.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Weyhrauch   inquired  why  those   fees  were                                                                   
chosen.    Ms.  Ryan  responded   that  when  the  Department                                                                   
determined what  it would take  to do the work,  assuming 40%                                                                   
decide not  to register,  the Division  would need  to charge                                                                   
about  $105  dollars  per product  to  generate  the  revenue                                                                   
needed.   The  $120  dollar number  would  provide leeway  to                                                                   
change.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Weyhrauch  believed  that  the  base  of  the                                                                   
fiscal note was $125 dollars.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
2:46:10 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative Weyhrauch  asked at what point  does the State                                                                   
make money.   Ms. Ryan explained  that the fiscal  note would                                                                   
have the  general fund contribution  eliminated by FY08.   At                                                                   
that time, the State would no  longer be paying $119 thousand                                                                   
dollars   to   support  the   program.     In   response   to                                                                   
Representative Weyrauch,  Ms. Ryan indicated that  the entire                                                                   
cost of  the program  would be  $384 thousand  dollars.   The                                                                   
costs bore  by fees would be  $382 thousand dollars  and with                                                                   
the reductions  would  equal the $119  thousand general  fund                                                                   
dollars currently in the program.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Stoltze inquired which  industries, professions or                                                                   
"quasi-State"  agencies would  be  impacted the  most by  the                                                                   
legislation.  Ms. Ryan noted that  the fee would be generated                                                                   
by  outside chemical  manufacturers.   She  added that  other                                                                   
impacted  would  be the  outside  user.   She  related  which                                                                   
businesses  would be  exempt and  regulated  by other  means.                                                                   
There would no significant changes for farmers.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
2:50:09 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Meyer  referenced the  query made by  Representative                                                                   
Weyhrauch regarding bed and breakfasts.   Ms. Ryan offered to                                                                   
check with the  Department's attorney regarding  inclusion of                                                                   
that group.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Meyer  asked if  bars would be  included.   Ms. Ryan                                                                   
said that bars would be considered  a private area frequented                                                                   
by the  public and would be  included.  Co-Chair  Meyer asked                                                                   
how  they  would  be  notified.     Ms.  Ryan  discussed  the                                                                   
regulations  and  how  the public  process  and  notification                                                                   
process would be handled with signage posted, etc.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Meyer questioned a person's  right-of-way portion of                                                                   
their yard.  Ms. Ryan responded  that technically, it belongs                                                                   
to the municipality.  She did not know.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Kelly   inquired  if  "the   legislation  was                                                                   
attempting  to  tax  and  regulate".    He  thought  that  an                                                                   
attrition rate could  happen and if that would be  okay.  Ms.                                                                   
Ryan acknowledged  that there is public concern  and that the                                                                   
attrition  rate is  something  not intended.   She  explained                                                                   
that there is a waiver process for new chemicals.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
2:55:19 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative Kelly  asked if any other states  had found an                                                                   
effective  way  to  deal  with  the  issues  referred  to  by                                                                   
Representative  Weyhrauch.   Ms. Ryan  stated that Alaska  is                                                                   
not using  any other state  as a model as  they tend to  be a                                                                   
bit more extreme  than Alaska, however, by  exempting hotels,                                                                   
motels and restaurants, the Department  thought that they had                                                                   
eliminated  low exposure areas.   The  intent was to  address                                                                   
multi-family dwellings.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Kelly commented  that unintentional  problems                                                                   
were  being  created  and  the   costs  associated  with  the                                                                   
legislation appear high.  Ms.  Ryan noted that the Department                                                                   
is very cautious  about growth and that since  1992, only one                                                                   
position has been added to the Department.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
2:58:56 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Pawlowski  responded to concerns of  Representative Kelly                                                                   
in dealing with  the certificated applicators  and charging a                                                                   
fee.  He noted discussion with  the certified applicators and                                                                   
the agreement that  resulted.  Health concerns  are out there                                                                   
and the  right to  know is  important.   He addressed  fiscal                                                                   
concerns and  the level of service  needed.  The  language on                                                                   
Page 2, Section  3(a), addresses what can be  charged and how                                                                   
the Department can use those funds.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Representative Hawker  added to the discussion,  asking if HB                                                                   
19  was  a  public interest  bill  or  a  revenue  generating                                                                   
measure.    He  asked  if  the  sponsor  had  considered  the                                                                   
"elasticity in the market", which  could result in a dramatic                                                                   
loss of  revenue.  Ms. Ryan  acknowledged that there  is some                                                                   
truth in that possibility, noting  that some companies do not                                                                   
want  to  register in  Alaska.    She  pointed out  that  the                                                                   
Department  is committed  to establishing  a waiver  process.                                                                   
It is important  that research is not restricted  nor hinders                                                                   
the use  of new products.   Some new  products are  safer and                                                                   
better   for   the  environment.      Representative   Hawker                                                                   
acknowledged  that  he does  not  know  the answer  to  these                                                                   
questions  and recommended  adding language  to address  such                                                                   
concerns.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Hawker referred  to the  fiscal note  and the                                                                   
addition of new personnel.  He  asked if the new third person                                                                   
could be a position  not budgeted at present  time but funded                                                                   
later as the program develops and the needs the increase.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
3:05:40 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Meyer supported  the idea.   Representative  Hawker                                                                   
recommended  that the  Committee eliminate  the third  person                                                                   
from the Department's fiscal note.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
3:06:55 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
DR.  ARNDT   VON  HIPPEL,  (TESTIFIED  VIA   TELECONFERENCE),                                                                   
RETIRED  HEART SURGEON,  ANCHORAGE,  voiced  support for  the                                                                   
bill and  spoke to  public health  issues that it  addresses.                                                                   
He provided a personal situation  in which a neighbor sprayed                                                                   
aphids,  which  nearly  cost  Dr.  Von  Hippel's  life.    He                                                                   
reiterated strong support for the legislation.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Dr.  Van Hippel  advised  that  outdoor spray  of  pesticides                                                                   
violates label  warnings.  He  believed that those  who spray                                                                   
pesticides for  non-agricultural purposes should  loose their                                                                   
licenses.  He urged every victim sue.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Dr. Van  Hippel stressed that  he does not want  notification                                                                   
that  he  must  seal  or  leave  his  home  while  a  sprayer                                                                   
contaminates  everything.   He pointed  out that  there is  a                                                                   
constitutional  right  to  privacy.   Tons  of  poisons  have                                                                   
already been sprayed  in Alaska with no effect  on the spruce                                                                   
beetle  problem.   Dr. Van  Hippel encouraged  that soap  and                                                                   
water work  well on most concerns  and questioned any  use of                                                                   
pesticides.  It  is not known how long the chemicals  last in                                                                   
the environment.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
3:10:59 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
KEN PERRY,  (TESTIFIED VIA TELECONFERENCE),  GENERAL MANAGER,                                                                   
PEST  CONTROL  OPERATORS, ANCHORAGE,  testified  against  the                                                                   
legislation and urged  that the Committee not  pass the bill,                                                                   
by falling victim  to the environmental  extremists promoting                                                                   
it.   He stated that  the proposed  charge would  be punitive                                                                   
and dedicated  to anti-pesticide regulation.   He warned that                                                                   
an attempt  to make law in  an area already  closely governed                                                                   
by the  federal government is  dangerous.  Mr.  Perry pointed                                                                   
out that concerns  of exposure are addressed  on every label.                                                                   
He reiterated his opposition to the legislation.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
3:15:15 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
EMILY   NENON,   (TESTIFIED   VIA   TELECONFERENCE),   ALASKA                                                                   
GOVERNMENT  RELATIONS  DIRECTOR,   AMERICAN  CANCER  SOCIETY,                                                                   
ANCHORAGE,  pointed out  that  the legislation  addresses  an                                                                   
Alaskan health  issue.   She commented  on what other  states                                                                   
have  done  regarding   the  issue.    She   added  that  the                                                                   
education,  information and  public  notice process  required                                                                   
would be  a good step to  providing reasonable  public notice                                                                   
and that  the language in  the committee substitute  was well                                                                   
in line with that of other states.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
3:16:59 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
PAM  MILLER,   (TESTIFIED  VIA  TELECONFERENCE),   BIOLOGIST,                                                                   
EXECUTIVE  DIRECTOR,  ALASKA   COMMUNITY  ACTION  ON  TOXICS,                                                                   
ANCHORAGE,  stated that  Alaska  Community  Action on  Toxics                                                                   
(ACAT) strongly supports HB 19.   Enactment of the bill would                                                                   
be an important first step in  assuring the public's right to                                                                   
know  about   pesticide  applications.     Children,  elderly                                                                   
people,  and those  with chronic  illnesses are  particularly                                                                   
susceptible   to  adverse  health   effects  from   pesticide                                                                   
exposure.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Miller   continued,  pesticide  use  occurs   in  places                                                                   
frequented in  our daily lives,  such as parks,  public lands                                                                   
and buildings  and grounds, transportation and  utility right                                                                   
of way,  schools, etc.   Although there  are more  than 5,700                                                                   
pesticides registered in Alaska,  there is no reliable system                                                                   
to track the amounts and locations they are used.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Miller  noted that  ACAT has  done extensive research  on                                                                   
the  health   effects  of   pesticides  using   peer-reviewed                                                                   
scientific  and  medical literature.    Support  of the  bill                                                                   
stems  from research  and  experience  and working  with  the                                                                   
Anchorage School District (ASD).                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Miller  advised that Alaska  is the only state  that does                                                                   
not require a  fee for pesticide registration.   She stressed                                                                   
that   the  provisions   of  the   bill   require  a   modest                                                                   
registration fee.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Miller summarized what HB 19 would accomplish:                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
   ·    Protects public health, especially for children and                                                                     
        those more vulnerable to the harmful effects of                                                                         
        pesticides;                                                                                                             
  ·    Promotes good decisions about pest management; and                                                                       
   ·    Enhances community right to know and transparency                                                                       
        about pesticide use.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
3:22:28 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
KATIE   ASPEN  GAVENUS,   (TESTIFIED   VIA   TELECONFERENCE),                                                                   
STUDENT, HOMER,  noted that  she was a  senior at  Homer High                                                                   
School.   She testified in support  of the legislation.   She                                                                   
thought  that  teenagers  were   particularly  vulnerable  to                                                                   
pesticides,  as  they  can  disrupt  hormone  balance.    She                                                                   
reiterated her strong support for HB 19.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
DYLAN   WEISER,   (TESTIFIED    VIA   TELECONFERENCE),   VICE                                                                   
PRESIDENT,  KACHEMAK BAY CONSERVATION  SOCIETY, HOMER,  spoke                                                                   
in support  for the legislation  and strongly  urged passage,                                                                   
noting  that   pesticides  are  highly  toxic   to  fish  and                                                                   
wildlife.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
3:23:49 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Meyer  MOVED to ADOPT Amendment  #1, #24-LS0149\I.1,                                                                   
Bullock,  3/14/05.  (Copy  on File).   Representative  Hawker                                                                   
OBJECTED.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Pawlowski  explained  that Amendment  #1 was intended  to                                                                   
define  reasonable  fee  in Sections  8-10.    The  amendment                                                                   
addresses  concerns  resulting   from  discussions  with  the                                                                   
agricultural   community  regarding   public  notice.     The                                                                   
Department  has indicated  that they  do not  intent to  take                                                                   
chemicals "off  the table" but  rather cover the cost  of the                                                                   
program and not getting in the way of State commerce.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Hawker WITHDREW his  OBJECTION.   There being                                                                   
NO further OBJECTION, Amendment #1 was adopted.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Meyer  MOVED to  ADOPT Amendment #2,  #24-LS019\I.2,                                                                   
Bullock,  3/14/05.  (Copy  on File).   Representative  Hawker                                                                   
OBJECTED for purpose of discussion.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Pawlowski  commented  that Amendment  #2  clarifies  the                                                                   
definition of a multi-family dwelling.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
3:26:42 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Pawlowski  said the intent  is to move more  toward broad                                                                   
public   places  and   that  the   amendment  clarifies   the                                                                   
description  of common  areas  such as  public places  around                                                                   
apartment buildings.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Hawker WITHDREW  his  OBJECTION to  Amendment                                                                   
#2.   There  being  NO further  OBJECTION,  Amendment #2  was                                                                   
adopted.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
3:27:44 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Meyer  commented on the  importance of the  bill and                                                                   
noted that it would be held for  further consideration of the                                                                   
fiscal  impact.   He  thought  that  those that  profit  from                                                                   
chemicals sold  statewide should  pay.  Co-Chair  Meyer added                                                                   
that there  are public  health concerns  and that the  public                                                                   
has the right to know what chemicals  are being used and sold                                                                   
statewide.   He  pointed  out that  many  people have  severe                                                                   
allergies to these chemicals.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Ryan explained  that the  pesticide program  is a  four-                                                                   
person program,  which has  many statewide  responsibilities.                                                                   
Pesticides are  currently permitted for air,  water and land.                                                                   
The process  is extensive and that  it is not a  light matter                                                                   
regulating pesticide  use.  The last issued  permit took over                                                                   
a year to conduct.  Given the  additional requirements of the                                                                   
bill, the  Division believes that  three additional  staff is                                                                   
necessary to do  that work.  Ms. Ryan stressed  that the bill                                                                   
is  positive  for  funding  aspects   as  well  as  being  an                                                                   
important public health bill.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Meyer asked  if there was a specialty  chemical used                                                                   
for agriculture, would  the fee vary.  Ms.  Ryan advised that                                                                   
the fee could be  waived for chemicals not used  that much or                                                                   
that  are  new  to  the  State   and  that  have  never  been                                                                   
distributed.   She  added  that if  a  large percentage  were                                                                   
paying the fee, the fee could fluctuate.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair  Stoltze stated that  the bill  would be  held for                                                                   
further consideration of the fiscal note.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
HB 19 was HELD in Committee for further consideration.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
RECESS:        3:33:50 PM                                                                                                     
RECONVENE:     6:17:56 PM.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
6:18:09 PM                                                                                                                    
HOUSE BILL NO. 66                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     An  Act  making  appropriations for  the  operating  and                                                                   
     capital    expenses    of   the    state's    integrated                                                                   
     comprehensive mental  health program; and  providing for                                                                   
     an effective date.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair   Chenault  provided   members   with  a   committee                                                                   
substitute for HB 66. He noted  that the committee substitute                                                                   
would  be  available  on  the  Legislative  Finance  Division                                                                   
website along with spreadsheets (copy on file).                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Meyer  MOVED  to  ADOPT   work  draft  24-GH1075\G,                                                                   
Utermohle,  3/15/05, as  the  version before  the  Committee.                                                                   
There being NO OBJECTION, it was adopted.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
HB 66 was HELD in Committee for further consideration.                                                                          
6:20:00 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE BILL NO. 67                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     An Act making appropriations  for the operating and loan                                                                   
     program  expenses  of  state   government,  for  certain                                                                   
     programs,    and    to    capitalize    funds;    making                                                                   
     appropriations  under art. IX, sec.  17(c), Constitution                                                                   
     of the State  of Alaska, from the  constitutional budget                                                                   
     reserve fund; and providing for an effective date.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair   Chenault  provided   members   with  a   committee                                                                   
substitute for HB 67.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Meyer  MOVED  to  ADOPT   work  draft  24-GH1073\Y,                                                                   
Utermohle,  3/15/05, as the  version of  the bill before  the                                                                   
Committee.  There being NO OBJECTION, it was adopted.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
HB 67 was HELD in Committee for further consideration.                                                                          
6:20:35 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CS FOR SENATE BILL NO. 98(FIN)                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     An  Act  making  supplemental   appropriations,  capital                                                                   
     appropriations,   and  other  appropriations;   amending                                                                   
     appropriations;  making   appropriations  to  capitalize                                                                   
     funds; making appropriations  under art. IX, sec. 17(c),                                                                   
     Constitution of the State of Alaska, from the                                                                              
     constitutional budget reserve fund; and providing for                                                                      
     an effective date.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Section 14(a) Marine Vessel Operations                                                                                          
     $12,000.0 AMHS Fund                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
NANCY SLAGLE, DIRECTOR, DIVISION  OF ADMINISTRATIVE SERVICES,                                                                   
DEPARTMENT OF  TRANSPORTATION AND PUBLIC  FACILITIES observed                                                                   
that   there   were  no   changes   to  the   Department   of                                                                   
Transportation  and Public Facilities  requests as  submitted                                                                   
by the Governor. She reviewed  Section 14 (a). Section 14 (a)                                                                   
would cover fuel  cost increases associated with  new vessels                                                                   
Fairweather  and Lituya,  training  for bringing  on the  new                                                                   
vessel Chenega,  overhauls for  the LeConte and  Fairweather,                                                                   
increased risk management premiums  and costs associated with                                                                   
grounding of the LeConte, which cost $1.2 million.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Section 14 (b) Central Region Highways and Aviation                                                                             
     $44.5 general funds                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Slagle noted  that Section 14 (b) would  fund King Salmon                                                                   
air traffic control services.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
6:24:42 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Section 14(c)       Program Development                                                                                         
       $85.0 general funds                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Slagle  explained that Section  14 (c) would  cover legal                                                                   
costs for  defense of  SB 260,  which changed the  membership                                                                   
make  up  of  the  policy  board  for  metropolitan  planning                                                                   
organizations.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
6:26:28 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Section 15(a)       Capital                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     Airport Improvement Program increase of $14,550.0  in                                                                      
     federal funds                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Slagle observed  that the  request would  cover work  at                                                                   
five rural  airports. The funds  are either discretionary  or                                                                   
Federal Aviation  Administration (FAA)  funds that  came late                                                                   
in the year. The projects are  ready to go forward within the                                                                   
next two months.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Chenault asked  how the projects  were chosen.  Ms.                                                                   
Slagle  observed that  the  FAA looked  at  needs and  safety                                                                   
issues related to the airports for selection and review.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
6:28:31 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Sections 15 (1)-(11)                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Slagle  explained that these  Sections relate  to federal                                                                   
highway  fund  projects  and  would  cover  capital  requests                                                                   
specific  to  safety.  They  address   emergency  and  safety                                                                   
issues. Two projects  are needed due to timing:  Coffman Cove                                                                   
Terminal and South Mitkof Island Terminal.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
6:30:16 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Meyer  MOVED  to  ADOPT  work  draft  #24-GS1133\L,                                                                   
Utermohle,  3/15/05, as the  version of  the bill before  the                                                                   
Committee.  There being NO OBJECTION, it was adopted.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
6:32:02 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SHARON KELLY, STAFF, CO-CHAIR  CHENAULT provided members with                                                                   
spreadsheet demonstrating  the changes made in  the committee                                                                   
substitute  (copy on  file). She  observed  that the  funding                                                                   
year is not indicated.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Section 1                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Kelly observed  that intent language relating  to charge-                                                                   
backs to agencies for information  services capital costs was                                                                   
added.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
6:33:01 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Section 2                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Kelly  noted  that  the funding  for  the  Small  Energy                                                                   
Assistance  Program remained  the  same,  but the  population                                                                   
cutoff was changed to 2,499, which  adds two new communities.                                                                   
The amount was prorated among the communities.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
6:33:23 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Section 2 (b)                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Kelly observed  that Section 2 (b) contained  a technical                                                                   
change to statutory designated program receipts.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
6:33:30 PM                                                                                                                    
Section 3 (a)                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Kelly  observed that $50  thousand for the  Department of                                                                   
Corrections, recruitment effort was removed.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
6:33:41 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Section (3)(e)                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Kelly  noted that  the lapse amount  of $65 thousand  was                                                                   
changed to  a lapse amount  of $450 thousand.  The Department                                                                   
of Corrections  confirmed that the  lapse amount could  be as                                                                   
high as $698 thousand. Some money  was left for a transfer to                                                                   
the Department of Law, Therapeutic Courts.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
6:34:00 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Section 4 (a) - (g)                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Kelly explained that Section  4 (a) addresses funding for                                                                   
education. There  are three Sections. In Section  4 (f), $400                                                                   
million from the  FY05 windfall was used. Section  4 (d) uses                                                                   
$440,429,365  from FY06.  Section  4 (e)  contains  $14,145.6                                                                   
million  from FY05.  Section  4  (g) was  added  to take  any                                                                   
surplus FY05 funds into the Public Education Fund.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
6:34:50 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Section 6 (c)                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Kelly noted that the funding  source was changed from the                                                                   
master lease  line of credit to  the General Fund.  The state                                                                   
cannot charge interest on a line of credit.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
6:35:10 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Section 9                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Kelly  observed  that Section  9 (b) was  moved from  the                                                                   
fast  track to  the regular  supplemental. Medicaid  services                                                                   
spend  about $10 million  a month.  The money  is needed  for                                                                   
June.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
6:35:25 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Section 12                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Kelly noted  that  Section  12 was  added  to allow  the                                                                   
Fairbanks    detoxification     unit    expansion    to    be                                                                   
reappropriated.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
6:35:49 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Chenault   MOVED  to   ADOPT  Amendment   #1,  #24-                                                                   
GS1133\L.1, Utermohle, 3/15/05.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     Page 8, line 11:                                                                                                           
      Delete "$400,00"                                                                                                          
      Insert  "$600,00"                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     Page 9, following line 16:                                                                                                 
     Insert a new subsection to read:                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     (h)  The unexpended and unobligated balance of the                                                                         
     appropriation made by sec. 52(a), ch. 159, SLA 2004                                                                        
     (Office  of  the Governor  -  operating  costs), not  to                                                                   
     exceed $200,000, is reappropriated  to the Department of                                                                   
     Education and Early Development,  Mt. Edgecumbe boarding                                                                   
     school,  for increased residential  operating  costs for                                                                   
     the fiscal year ending June 30, 2005.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Meyer OBJECTED for the purpose of discussion.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Chenault explained that  Mt. Edgecumb has incurred a                                                                   
debt  of  $800  thousand.   The  other  body  added  in  $400                                                                   
thousand.  He observed  that $200 thousand  would be  general                                                                   
funds  and there  was an  understanding that  the other  $200                                                                   
thousand would come from the Office of the Governor.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CHERYL  FRASCA, DIRECTOR,  DIVISION OF  MANAGEMENT &  BUDGET,                                                                   
OFFICE  OF  THE GOVERNOR,  acknowledged  that  $200  thousand                                                                   
would come out  of the Contingency fund in the  Office of the                                                                   
Governor.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Chenault  noted  that  this would  fully  fund  the                                                                   
increase in students at Mt. Edgecumbe.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
There being NO OBJECTION, it was so ordered.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
6:39:53 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Meyer MOVED to ADOPT Amendment #2(a):                                                                                  
                                                                                                                              
     Sec. 6.  FUND TRANSFERS.  (a) The sum of $11,522,000 is                                                                  
     appropriated from the general fund to the Alaska marine                                                                    
     highway system fund (AS 19.65.060(a)).                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Kelly   explained  that  the  amendment   represents  an                                                                   
increase of  $1,517,800 for cost  of the recently  negotiated                                                                   
collective  bargaining  unit   agreements  for  International                                                                   
Organization  of  Master, Mates  and  Pilots  and the  Marine                                                                   
Engineers   Beneficial  Association.   She  noted   that  the                                                                   
negotiations  were concluded  after the  Sensate version  was                                                                   
received.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
ART  CHANCE,  LABOR RELATIONS  DIRECTOR,  DIVISION  OF  LABOR                                                                   
RELATIONS,  DEPARTMENT OF ADMINISTRATION,  observed  that the                                                                   
contracts were concluded March 8, 2005.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
6:41:01 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
PETE ECKLUND,  STAFF, REPRESENTATIVE  KEVIN MEYER,  suggested                                                                   
that Amendments 2(a), (b) and  (c) be considered together. He                                                                   
noted  that  Amendment  2(a)   appropriates  money  into  the                                                                   
General  Fund   for  Alaska  Marine  Highway   System  costs.                                                                   
Amendment 2(b) and (c) appropriate  the money out of the Fund                                                                   
to pay  the cost. Amendment 2  (d) is a technical  correction                                                                   
of $900.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Meyer WITHDREW his OBJECTION.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Representative Chenault MOVED to ADOPT Amendments 2(a), (b)                                                                     
and (c)                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     Amendment 2(b):                                                                                                            
     (f)  Contingent upon the  ratification of the collective                                                                   
     bargaining agreement  described in this  subsection, the                                                                   
     sum of $889,300  is appropriated from the  Alaska marine                                                                   
     highway system fund (AS 19.65.060(a))  to the Department                                                                   
     of Transportation  and Public Facilities,  marine vessel                                                                   
     operations, in order to implement  the monetary terms of                                                                   
     the  collective  bargaining  agreement  for  the  Marine                                                                   
     Engineers Beneficial Association,  representing licensed                                                                   
     engineers employed by the  Alaska marine highway system,                                                                   
     for the fiscal year ending June 30, 2005.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     Amendment 2 (c)                                                                                                            
     (e)  Contingent upon the  ratification of the collective                                                                   
     bargaining agreement  described in this  subsection, the                                                                   
     sum of $628,500  is appropriated from the  Alaska marine                                                                   
     highway system fund (AS 19.65.060(a))  to the Department                                                                   
     of Transportation  and Public Facilities,  marine vessel                                                                   
     operations, in order to implement  the monetary terms of                                                                   
     the    collective   bargaining    agreement   for    the                                                                   
     International   Organization  of  Masters,   Mates,  and                                                                   
     Pilots,  for the  masters, mates,  and pilots unit,  for                                                                   
     the fiscal year ending June 30, 2005.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
There being NO OBJECTION, it was so ordered.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
6:42:29 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Meyer MOVED to ADOPT Amendment #2(d):                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     (d)  Contingent upon the  ratification of the collective                                                                   
     bargaining agreement described   in this subsection, the                                                                   
     sum of $3,190,900 is appropriated from the Alaska                                                                          
     marine highway system fund  (AS 19.65.060(a)) to the                                                                       
     Department of Transportation  and Public Facilities,                                                                       
     marine vessel operations,  in order to implement the                                                                       
     monetary terms of the collective bargaining agreement                                                                      
     for the Inlandboatmen's Union of the Pacific,                                                                              
     representing the unlicensed  marine unit, for the fiscal                                                                   
     year ending June 30, 2005.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Ecklund explained that Amendment 2 (d) is a technical                                                                       
correction of $900.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
There being NO OBJECTION, it was so ordered.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
6:43:04 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Chenault MOVED to ADOPT Amendment #3:                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     The amendment would remove "the Legislative Budget and                                                                     
     Audit Committee for contracts with."                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Representative   Hawker   OBJECTED   for   the   purpose   of                                                                   
discussion.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Frasca  explained  that   the  amendment  requests  that                                                                   
appropriations  for  the  natural  gas  pipeline  go  to  the                                                                   
departments that  have the responsibility  and accountability                                                                   
to do the work. She stressed that  the Stranded Gas Act gives                                                                   
the   executive   branch   tremendous    responsibility   for                                                                   
negotiating  contracts. She maintained  that the  Legislature                                                                   
is  involved and  is kept  informed  through the  Legislative                                                                   
Budget  and Audit  Committee: Senator  Therriault, Chair  and                                                                   
Representative  Samuels, Vice-Chair.  She  asserted that  the                                                                   
dollars   ought   to  go   to   the  departments   with   the                                                                   
responsibility and accountability  so that the Administration                                                                   
can follow the appropriation.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Representative Croft  noted that the request  is $28 million.                                                                   
He felt that the backup was insufficient  and questioned what                                                                   
problems  would   occur  by  having   a  check   through  the                                                                   
Legislative Budget and Audit Committee.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Frasca   observed  that   the  Committee  has   had  the                                                                   
opportunity to  ask questions  about the appropriations.  The                                                                   
Legislative   Budget   and   Audit   Committee   Chair   have                                                                   
participated  in  the  negotiations  and  have  been  briefed                                                                   
weekly.  She   emphasized  the  separation  of   powers:  the                                                                   
legislature has  the power to  appropriate and  the executive                                                                   
branch has  the responsibility  to manage.  She did  not feel                                                                   
that  an   intermediary  was   necessary.  She   acknowledged                                                                   
concerns,  but   pointed  out   that  the  negotiations   are                                                                   
confidential.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
6:47:01 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative Croft recognized the importance of the gas-                                                                      
line, but questioned if all $28  million would go to the gas-                                                                   
line associated work.  Ms. Frasca noted that  some other work                                                                   
would be done regarding TAPS and other issues.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Croft spoke  in opposition  to the  amendment                                                                   
and in support of a legislative  check. He maintained that an                                                                   
appropriation  of this  size, with  little documentation  and                                                                   
importance should have a legislative check.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
6:48:26 PM.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Hawker stressed  that the Administration  has                                                                   
stated  its  desire  to  be guided  by  the  Legislature.  He                                                                   
questioned if  failure of the amendment would  compromise the                                                                   
Administration's  ability  to   do  the  work  and  move  the                                                                   
pipeline forward. Ms. Frasca recalled  that requests from the                                                                   
Legislature have  been in terms  of policy guidance  and have                                                                   
centered around  statutes on  eligibility for formula  driven                                                                   
programs. The  Administration has asked for  clarification on                                                                   
how the  statutes would be amended  or the practice  in place                                                                   
changed, when  the Legislature has indicated  its desire that                                                                   
the  Administration   discontinue   the  delivery   of  these                                                                   
services. She stated that the  current Administration has not                                                                   
been held  to this type  of surveillance by the  Legislature.                                                                   
She pointed out that the Administration  administers about $7                                                                   
billion  dollars   in  the  budget  and  questioned   if  the                                                                   
Legislature  wanted  to assert  itself  over  $28 million  on                                                                   
"probably the most  important project we are going  to see in                                                                   
our lifetime."                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Representative Hawker  again questioned whether  the exercise                                                                   
of  the  legislative  prerogative would  interfere  with  the                                                                   
Administration's  ability  to  go  forward  and  conduct  the                                                                   
necessary work needed to move gas pipeline forward.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Frasca responded  that there  is a  potential [that  the                                                                   
Administration  would  not  have  the  ability  to  move  the                                                                   
project forward].  She observed that the  Administration does                                                                   
not  know what  documentation  would  be required,  what  the                                                                   
process would  be for LBA  approval, what the  repeal process                                                                   
would   be   [for   rejected    requests],   the   level   of                                                                   
confidentiality   in  the  billings,   and  to   what  degree                                                                   
appropriations  would be  subject to  the Legislative  Budget                                                                   
and Audit Committee or other legislators.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Frasca stated  that she had talked to  Senator Therriault                                                                   
and  had  been  told  that  the   confidentiality  under  the                                                                   
Stranded Gas  Act would apply  to the Legislative  Budget and                                                                   
Audit Committee's review. She reiterated concerns.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
6:51:24 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Weyhrauch  wondered if  there  was a  certain                                                                   
amount  of economy  in providing  LBA  as a  conduit for  the                                                                   
funds and instilling  the trust through the  process, so that                                                                   
the  [Legislature]  is not  suspect  about the  end  product.                                                                   
There  would be  full  involvement  and participation  by  at                                                                   
least some  committee of the  Legislature that can  help ease                                                                   
any  issues,  such  as  mistrust  or  bad  communication.  He                                                                   
pointed out  that the Legislature  wants the gas  pipeline as                                                                   
much or more than the Administration,  and wants to make sure                                                                   
that it is  done as fast as  is reasonably possible  and in a                                                                   
prudent  manner.   He  did  not   anticipate  a   "bunch"  of                                                                   
loggerheads.  He maintained  that there  would be a  rational                                                                   
basis of  appropriations for the  type of works  contained in                                                                   
the bill. He  did not think the Legislative  Budget and Audit                                                                   
Committee would be an impediment.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Frasca stated  that  the  dilemma is  that  it has  been                                                                   
suggestion  that  the  Committee  would be  involved  in  the                                                                   
process.   She   noted  that   Senator   Therriault,   Chair,                                                                   
Legislative  Budget and  Audit  Committee  indicated that  it                                                                   
would  just   be  him  and/or  Representative   Samuels.  She                                                                   
expressed concern that, if it  is going to go before the full                                                                   
committee, that  there would be issues of  confidentiality of                                                                   
the documentation. There is concern  that the Committee would                                                                   
have to meet and pointed out that  the Committee doesn't meet                                                                   
frequently,  or at least  it hasn't  to date. She  reiterated                                                                   
that there  are four legislators  involved in  the briefings:                                                                   
Senator Therriault,  Representative Samuels,  Senator Stevens                                                                   
and   Speaker  Harris.   She  expressed   concern  that   the                                                                   
Administration doesn't  know how well the process  would work                                                                   
and  that  they  are concerned  that  participation  [of  the                                                                   
Legislative  Budget and  Audit  Committee]  might bog  things                                                                   
down. The negotiations are intense and important.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
6:54:02 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Croft recalled  testimony  before the  Senate                                                                   
Finance Committee  that [the Administration]  did not  have a                                                                   
particular problem with the provisions [for LBA approval].                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Frasca didn't recall if she  testified on this section of                                                                   
the bill.  She stated  that the  Administration did  not know                                                                   
what the section  would mean at that time. She  noted that as                                                                   
"we've asked questions, we haven't  gotten any more answers."                                                                   
They  are therefore  concerned  with uncertainty  surrounding                                                                   
the  process.   She  stressed   that   it  is  a   tremendous                                                                   
responsibility and serious undertaking.  She noted that it is                                                                   
"not like  an invoice you get  for staples at the end  of the                                                                   
month."  She   reiterated  that   the  Administration   would                                                                   
answered the  questions of the  four legislators  involved at                                                                   
any time  about anything  the Administration  does and  would                                                                   
encourage  other   legislators  to   speak  with   them.  She                                                                   
emphasized   that   the  Administration   doesn't   want   to                                                                   
jeopardize the ability to act as quickly as necessary.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
6:55:27 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative Croft  stated that he would not  insist on the                                                                   
language if  it were a requisition  for staples.  He stressed                                                                   
that the difference in size is  the very reason the amendment                                                                   
should be there.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
A roll call vote  was taken on the motion to  adopt Amendment                                                                   
3.                                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
IN FAVOR: Kelly, Chenault, Meyer                                                                                                
OPPOSED: Hawker, Moses, Stoltze, Weyrauch, Croft, Foster                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Representatives Holm and Joule were absent from the vote.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
The MOTION FAILED (3-6).                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
6:56:45 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Croft MOVED  to ADOPT  New Amendment  #4. Co-                                                                   
Chair Chenault OBJECTED.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Croft  explained  that  the  amendment  would                                                                   
remove all  permanent fund revenues  as a funding  source and                                                                   
another  $4  million  in  general funds  to  reduce  the  $28                                                                   
million   proposed  appropriation   [for   the  natural   gas                                                                   
pipeline] in the  fast track supplemental by  $11 million. He                                                                   
acknowledged  that  the state  would  have  to write  "a  big                                                                   
check", but  argued against a  "blank check". He  pointed out                                                                   
that there  would be  appropriate times for  the rest  of the                                                                   
money to  be brought up. There  would still be a  $17 million                                                                   
appropriation.  The amendment  deletes the  $1.2 million  for                                                                   
the AOGCC,  which they chose not  to do as a charge  out. The                                                                   
intent would  be for the work to  be done as a charge  out to                                                                   
the appropriate  individual companies. The Department  of Law                                                                   
has  asked for  $9 million  dollars. He  maintained that  the                                                                   
"fast track" should not contain  appropriations for FY06. The                                                                   
Department of  Law needs  at least $5  million for  FY05. The                                                                   
rest can be discussed later.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Croft noted that  the amendment  also removes                                                                   
the right  away permitting for  Bullen Point Road. This  is a                                                                   
connection to Point Thompson.  He felt that it may eventually                                                                   
be important, but the primary  source of gas would be Prudhoe                                                                   
Bay at the  beginning. He stated  that he had not  been shown                                                                   
enough  to  know  if the  Bullen  Point  Road  right-away  is                                                                   
appropriate  in the "fast  track" and  whether the  amount is                                                                   
justified.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Representative   Croft   noted   that  there   were   partial                                                                   
reductions to the allocation to  the Department of Revenue to                                                                   
equal $11 million.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Croft noted  that  Amendment #4  appropriates                                                                   
the  same   amount  to  the   Alaska  Natural   Gas  Pipeline                                                                   
Development Authority (ANGDA).  Under the amendment the money                                                                   
would go directly  to ANGDA. He stressed the  independence of                                                                   
the Alaska  Natural Gas  Pipeline Development Authority.  The                                                                   
current  proposal would  spend a  total of  $28 million:  $21                                                                   
million  GF  and  $7  million  in  permanent  fund  receipts.                                                                   
Amendment #4  would save  $11 million. There  would be  a $17                                                                   
million  in General Fund  and no  Permanent Fund  Corporation                                                                   
appropriations.  He  felt  the  reductions  would  allow  the                                                                   
departments  to  finish FY05  without  funding  FY06 or  FY07                                                                   
appropriations or items without sufficient documentation.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
7:01:10 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Hawker noted that  the legislature  maintains                                                                   
significant  control with  the rejection  of Amendment  3. He                                                                   
questioned  if  the  concerns  remain.  Representative  Croft                                                                   
noted that  it was appropriate  to maintain oversight  by the                                                                   
Legislative  Budget and  Audit Committee.  He noted  that the                                                                   
amendment  would  reduce the  oversight  to  $17 million.  He                                                                   
questioned whether the appropriation  should stay in the fast                                                                   
track. He  noted that oversight  does not justify  items that                                                                   
are unnecessary  or don't  have sufficient documentation.  He                                                                   
noted that  some items  have five-year  capital lapse  dates,                                                                   
which would  be more  appropriate in  a capital or  operating                                                                   
budget. He  did not think it  was appropriate to  spend money                                                                   
five years in the future in fast track legislation.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
7:03:40 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Hawker spoke against  the amendment.  He felt                                                                   
that the additional  oversight is an appropriate  arbitration                                                                   
of the question  on amounts and the need for  the legislature                                                                   
to be  concerned with how  the money  is spent. He  felt that                                                                   
the best balance had been reached.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair  Stoltze  questioned  if the  amendment  could  be                                                                   
divided.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
7:04:40 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative Croft concluded  that it would be difficult to                                                                   
divide the amendment.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
A  roll call  vote  was  taken on  the  motion  to adopt  New                                                                   
Amendment #4.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
IN FAVOR: Croft,                                                                                                                
OPPOSED:  Kelly,  Hawker, Moses,  Stoltze, Weyrauch,  Foster,                                                                   
          Meyer, Chenault                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
7:05:55 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Croft MOVED to  ADOPT Amendment  #5. Co-Chair                                                                   
Chenault OBJECTED.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
     Delete lines 26 - 28 on page 22.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Croft  explained  that  the  amendment  would                                                                   
delete the $85  thousand in legal fees for  the Department of                                                                   
Transportation  and Public  Facilities.  The Municipality  of                                                                   
Anchorage  is  handling the  issue  without an  increase  and                                                                   
Representative Croft  felt that the  state could as  well. He                                                                   
maintained that it is not an emergency.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Slagle spoke  to  Amendment 5.  She  explained that  the                                                                   
Department  of  Law,  Civil Section  receives  all  of  their                                                                   
funding from the agencies that  receive services. The request                                                                   
is for Division's  program development, which  is a federally                                                                   
funded portion of the agency, with no general funds.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Croft  clarified  that  the agency  is  being                                                                   
charged  for the amount  and there  are no  general funds  to                                                                   
cover it.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Representative Croft WITHDREW Amendment 5.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
7:08:53 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Croft MOVED to  ADOPT Amendment #6.  He noted                                                                   
that Amendment  6 would appropriate $500 thousand  in general                                                                   
funds for breast and cervical  cancer prevention. He stressed                                                                   
the importance  of the appropriation  and maintained  that it                                                                   
would  save money  in the long  run. The  fund source  change                                                                   
would allow services  to 1,600 enrolled women  that otherwise                                                                   
would not be served due to federal  funding reductions. Funds                                                                   
would be  required by late March  or early April  to continue                                                                   
the program.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
7:10:16 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Chenault expressed  support for  the services,  but                                                                   
questioned  where  the  line should  be  drawn.  He  stressed                                                                   
fiscal accountability.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
A roll call vote was taken on the motion.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
IN FAVOR: Moses, Weyrauch, Croft                                                                                                
OPPOSED: Stoltze, Foster, Hawker, Kelly, Chenault, Meyer                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Representatives Holm and Joule were absent from the vote.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
The MOTION FAILED (3-6).                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
7:12:26 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Croft  MOVED   to  ADOPT  Amendment  #7.  The                                                                   
amendment  would  add $108,377  for  the Yukon  Flats  School                                                                   
District.  He  requested  that  the  leadership  address  the                                                                   
amendment before the floor decision.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Representative Croft WITHDREW Amendment #7.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
AT EASE:       7:18:07 PM                                                                                                     
RECONVENE:     7:22:41 PM                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Representative Chenault  noted that the committee  substitute                                                                   
as amended was before the Committee.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Representative Kelly spoke against  the use of permanent fund                                                                   
expenditures  in items  7 a  - f.  He indicated  that he  was                                                                   
uncomfortable with  the use of permanent fund.  He maintained                                                                   
that the use of permanent fund  receipts for capital projects                                                                   
should have a "higher test than  it has in this document". He                                                                   
spoke against the $6 million appropriation  for energy grants                                                                   
to small  communities. He  noted that he  would not  hold the                                                                   
bill.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
7:25:31 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Meyer spoke in support  of the committee substitute.                                                                   
He explained that the committee  substitute would appropriate                                                                   
$400 million  of the $500  million estimated windfall  to the                                                                   
Education Fund.  He noted that  $854 million, which is  a $70                                                                   
million  increase, would  go to  education. The  rest of  the                                                                   
funding  needed  to fund  education  would consist  of:  $440                                                                   
million FY06 general  funds and $14 million  in lapsed funds.                                                                   
The amount could change. He observed  that the windfall would                                                                   
go the number one priority of  education. If the surplus were                                                                   
greater,  the  additional  amount   would  be  swept  to  the                                                                   
Education Fund.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
7:27:25 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Croft  spoke on  the  use of  permanent  fund                                                                   
earnings.  He  noted  that the  Permanent  Fund  receives  15                                                                   
percent of the  oil lease funding. He expressed  concern with                                                                   
the use  of permanent  fund earnings  without  a vote of  the                                                                   
people. He referred  to the 1989 vote [to use  permanent fund                                                                   
earnings].                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Representative Croft spoke to  education funding, which would                                                                   
park some of the FY05 money in  the Education Fund. He stated                                                                   
that  he supports  getting the  money to  the classrooms  and                                                                   
noted  that it  needs to  move from  the sub  account to  the                                                                   
schools. He questioned if the  bill provides adequate funding                                                                   
for education.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
7:30:44 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Chenault  acknowledged that education is  one of the                                                                   
biggest  issues  before the  Legislature.  The  intent is  to                                                                   
early  fund  and  to attempt  to  fully  fund  education.  He                                                                   
observed that the legislation  is the first step toward those                                                                   
goals.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
7:31:41 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Meyer  noted that permanent fund earnings  have been                                                                   
used since  1989. The justification  has been that  they have                                                                   
only been used for natural resource  projects, which is where                                                                   
the money  comes from.  He stressed that  there is  no better                                                                   
natural resource  project than  the natural gas  pipeline. He                                                                   
observed  that the  precedent  has been  set and  that he  is                                                                   
comfortable with the appropriation.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
7:32:39 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Hawker endorsed  the  sentiments of  Co-Chair                                                                   
Meyer. He  pointed out  that the  Permanent Fund was  created                                                                   
for  a time  when  oil and  gas  revenues have  declined.  He                                                                   
questioned  if  there was  a  more  appropriate use  than  to                                                                   
reinvest  in the  development  of the  resource, which  would                                                                   
continue to perpetuate the fund.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
7:33:45 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative Foster MOVED to report HCS CSSB 98 (FIN) out                                                                     
of Committee. There being NO OBJECTION, it was so ordered.                                                                      
ADJOURNMENT                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
The meeting was adjourned at 7:34 PM                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                

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