Legislature(1997 - 1998)

05/07/1997 02:15 PM FIN

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
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                     HOUSE FINANCE COMMITTEE                                   
                           MAY 7, 1997                                         
                            2:15 P.M.                                          
                                                                               
  TAPE HFC 97 - 127, Side 1, #000 - end.                                       
  TAPE HFC 97 - 127, Side 2, #000 - end.                                       
  TAPE HFC 97 - 128, Side 1, #000 - end.                                       
  TAPE HFC 97 - 128, Side 2, #000 - #156.                                      
                                                                               
  CALL TO ORDER                                                                
                                                                               
  Co-Chair Gene Therriault called  the House Finance Committee                 
  meeting to order at 2:15 P.M.                                                
                                                                               
  PRESENT                                                                      
                                                                               
  Co-Chair Hanley               R e p r e s e n t a t i v e                    
  Grussendorf                                                                  
  Co-Chair Therriault           Representative Kohring                         
  Representative Davies         Representative Martin                          
  Representative Davis          Representative Moses                           
  Representative Foster         Representative Mulder                          
                                                                               
  Representative Kelly was not present for the meeting.                        
                                                                               
  ALSO PRESENT                                                                 
                                                                               
  Representative  Alan  Kemplen;  Tuckerman   Babcock,  Staff,                 
  Senator  Lyda  Green;  Art  Chance,  Counsel to  the  Senate                 
  Finance  Committee,  Labor  Issues,  Juneau;  Cynthia  Hora,                 
  Deputy Attorney  General, Criminal  Division, Department  of                 
  Law;   Mike  McMullen,   Personnel   Manager,  Division   of                 
  Personnel,  Department  of   Administration;  Bill   Church,                 
  Supervisor, Division of Retirement  and Benefits, Department                 
  of Administration;  John Cyr, President,  National Education                 
  Association,  Juneau;  Geron  Bruce,   Legislative  Liaison,                 
  Department of Fish and Game.                                                 
                                                                               
  SUMMARY                                                                      
                                                                               
  HB 47     An Act relating  to authorizing the  Department of                 
            Corrections   to   provide  an   automated  victim                 
            notification and prisoner information system.                      
                                                                               
            HB   47  was   HELD  in   Committee  for   further                 
            consideration.                                                     
                                                                               
  HB 159    An  Act relating to sale, possession, and purchase                 
            of tobacco  and tobacco  products; amending  Rules                 
            603  and   611(d),  Alaska   Rules  of   Appellate                 
            Procedure; and providing for an effective date.                    
                                                                               
                                                                               
                                1                                              
                                                                               
                                                                               
            CS HB 159 (FIN) was reported out of Committee with                 
            a "no recommendation" and with fiscal notes by the                 
            Department of Administration one new and one dated                 
            4/17/97, the Department of Law dated 4/17/97,  the                 
            Department   of   Revenue   dated   4/17/97,   the                 
            Department  of Public  Safety  dated 4/17/97,  the                 
            Alaska  Court   System  dated   4/17/97  and   the                 
            Department  of  Commerce and  Economic Development                 
            dated 4/17/97.                                                     
                                                                               
  SB 141    An  Act relating  to  permits to  carry  concealed                 
            handguns;  and  relating   to  the  possession  of                 
            firearms.                                                          
                                                                               
            HCS CS SB 141 (FIN)  was reported out of Committee                 
            with  individual  recommendations  and with  three                 
            fiscal notes  by the  Department of  Public Safety                 
            two dated 3/26/97 and one dated 4/3/97.                            
                                                                               
  SB 150    An  Act  relating  to  moving  expenses  of  state                 
            employees,   to   compensatory   time  for   state                 
            employees, and to calculation  of compensation for                 
            the public employees' retirement system.                           
                                                                               
            HCS CS SB 150 (FIN) was  reported out of Committee                 
            with individual  recommendations and  with a  zero                 
            fiscal note for all departments dated 4/4/97.                      
  SENATE BILL 141                                                              
                                                                               
       "An  Act   relating  to  permits  to   carry  concealed                 
       handguns; and relating to the possession of firearms."                  
                                                                               
  Representative Kohring recommended  "lumping" the  remaining                 
  amendments  #3,  #4,  #5, #6,  #8  &  #9  together into  one                 
  amendment.  Co-Chair  Therriault replied  that to date,  the                 
  Committee has not cut-off members debate, noting that action                 
  would not be taken.                                                          
                                                                               
  Representative J. Davies MOVED to adopt Amendment #3.  [Copy                 
  on file].  Co-Chair Therriault OBJECTED.                                     
                                                                               
  Representative J.  Davies explained that the amendment would                 
  add include a stipulation clarifying  that the applicant not                 
  have  been convicted of  a domestic violence  crime within a                 
  six year period.                                                             
                                                                               
  TUCKERMAN BABCOCK, STAFF,  SENATOR LYDA  GREEN, spoke to  AS                 
  11.61.200(a)(8) & (9)  which prohibits  the possession of  a                 
  fire arm  while a  person is  committing a  trespass in  the                 
  first or second degree  while in violation of a  court order                 
  or  communicating  with  another person  in  violation  of a                 
                                                                               
                                2                                              
                                                                               
                                                                               
  domestic violence order.   Representative J. Davies  pointed                 
  out  that the referenced  standards were  specific, whereas,                 
  the amendment stipulates the six year historical standard.                   
                                                                               
  A roll call vote was taken on the MOTION.                                    
                                                                               
       IN FAVOR:      Grussendorf, J. Davies                                   
       OPPOSED:       Kohring,  Martin,   G.  Davis,   Foster,                 
                      Therriault, Hanley                                       
                                                                               
  Representatives Kelly, Moses and Mulder were not present for                 
  the vote.                                                                    
                                                                               
  The MOTION FAILED (2-6).                                                     
                                                                               
  Representative J. Davies MOVED to adopt Amendment #4.  [Copy                 
  on file].  Co-Chair Therriault OBJECTED.                                     
                                                                               
  Representative J.  Davies explained that Amendment  #4 would                 
  add  further clarification  of  when a  person  would be  in                 
  violation  of  a notice  as provided  in  section (c).   Mr.                 
  Babcock  commented that  section would  change  the criminal                 
  trespass statutes for  all criminal  trespass in Alaska  and                 
  would not  be limited  to addressing  permits or  related to                 
  firearms.                                                                    
                                                                               
  A roll call vote was taken on the MOTION.                                    
                                                                               
       IN FAVOR:      J. Davies, Grussendorf                                   
       OPPOSED:       Kohring,  Martin,   G.  Davis,   Foster,                 
  Therriault                                                                   
                                                                               
  Representatives  Kelly, Moses,  Mulder and  Hanley were  not                 
  present for the vote.                                                        
                                                                               
  The MOTION FAILED (2-5).                                                     
                                                                               
  Representative J. Davies MOVED to adopt Amendment #5.  [Copy                 
  on file].  Co-Chair Therriault OBJECTED.                                     
                                                                               
  Representative J. Davies  explained that Amendment  #5 would                 
  require  that  an  applicant not  be  suffering  from mental                 
  illness  as  defined in  AS  47.30.915 within  the  past six                 
  years.  Mr. Babcock commented that under federal law, anyone                 
  who  has  been   adjudicated  or   committed  to  a   mental                 
  institution would be prohibited from possessing any firearm.                 
                                                                               
                                                                               
  Representative  Grussendorf  questioned  how   thorough  the                 
  background  checks  were.   Mr.  Babcock responded  that the                 
  Department of  Public  Safety (DPS)  provides  a  background                 
  check requiring that a set of finger prints be taken.  It is                 
                                                                               
                                3                                              
                                                                               
                                                                               
  important when denying  someone a privilege under  state law                 
  that  there  be  a  demarkation point  rather  than  just  a                 
  doctor's  recommendation.   He stressed  that Senator  Green                 
  would be more comfortable dealing with a set standard.                       
                                                                               
  A roll call vote was taken on the MOTION.                                    
                                                                               
       IN FAVOR:      J. Davies, Grussendorf                                   
       OPPOSED:       Kohring,  Martin,   G.  Davis,   Foster,                 
  Therriault                                                                   
                                                                               
  Representatives  Moses, Mulder,  Kelly and  Hanley were  not                 
  present for the vote.                                                        
                                                                               
  The MOTION FAILED (2-5).                                                     
                                                                               
  Representative J. Davies MOVED to adopt Amendment #6.  [Copy                 
  on file].  Co-Chair Therriault OBJECTED.                                     
                                                                               
  Representative J.  Davies  noted  that  Amendment  #6  would                 
  provide that  a person  ordered by  a court  to complete  an                 
  alcohol treatment program or substance abuse program, not be                 
  allowed to apply for three years following the completion of                 
  the program.   Mr. Babcock responded that  current law would                 
  only affect certain persons already banned under federal law                 
  from carrying a  firearm.  The  only people affected by  the                 
  proposed  amendment  would be  people  who had  successfully                 
  completed an alcohol or drug abuse program.                                  
  Representative J.  Davies argued that  if a person  had been                 
  ordered by a court to complete an alcohol treatment program,                 
  would suggest  that person has evidence of  abuse of alcohol                 
  or drugs.                                                                    
                                                                               
  A roll call vote was taken on the MOTION.                                    
                                                                               
       IN FAVOR:      J. Davies, Grussendorf                                   
       OPPOSED:       Martin,  G.   Davis,  Foster,   Kohring,                 
                      Therriault                                               
                                                                               
  Representatives Moses,  Mulder, Kelly,  and Hanley  were not                 
  present for the vote.                                                        
                                                                               
  The MOTION FAILED (2-5).                                                     
                                                                               
  Representative J. Davies MOVED to adopt Amendment #8.  [Copy                 
  on file].  Co-Chair Therriault OBJECTED.                                     
                                                                               
  Representative J. Davies  explained that Amendment  #8 would                 
  specify  that  victims of  domestic  violence,  employees or                 
  volunteers  of domestic  violence  shelters,  would  not  be                 
  liable  for any  injury caused  in the  course of  defending                 
  themselves or others in the shelter against attack.                          
                                                                               
                                4                                              
                                                                               
                                                                               
  Mr. Babcock stated that would be  limited to a conceal carry                 
  permit statute as opposed to limiting the  liability for the                 
  employee.  He suggested that it  would apply only to Section                 
  18.65 involving concealed permits.  Representative J. Davies                 
  noted that shelter  operators have requested  that concealed                 
  carried weapons be specifically excluded  from shelters.  If                 
  a person is carrying openly, the shelter operators  would be                 
  more  comfortable.   If  the  State  makes  a public  policy                 
  decision for those in the shelter, inclusion of the proposed                 
  language would address  the potential threats.   Mr. Babcock                 
  made no comment.                                                             
                                                                               
  Representative  Martin  suggested  that  inclusion  of   the                 
  language could  make the shelters  much safer.   Mr. Babcock                 
  noted  that  Senator Green  would have  no objection  to the                 
  concept, although,  how it would  apply and  what the  legal                 
  ramifications would be have not been considered.                             
                                                                               
  A roll call vote was taken on the MOTION.                                    
                                                                               
       IN FAVOR:      J. Davies, Grussendorf, Martin                           
       OPPOSED:       G. Davis, Foster, Kohring, Therriault                    
                                                                               
  Representatives Moses,  Mulder, Kelly, and  Hanley were  not                 
  present for the vote.                                                        
                                                                               
  The MOTION FAILED (3-4).                                                     
                                                                               
  Representative J. Davies MOVED to adopt Amendment #9.  [Copy                 
  on file].   He explained that  the amendment would  prohibit                 
  the use of  a handgun on a  school bus or  school sanctioned                 
  event.                                                                       
                                                                               
  Representative   Kohring  OBJECTED   for   the  purpose   of                 
  discussion.                                                                  
                                                                               
  Mr. Babcock commented that Senator  Green suggested that the                 
  prohibition  would be  better  placed in  AS 11.61.210(a)(7)                 
  along  with   the  language  limiting  firearms   on  school                 
  property.  He suggested  that information was clear that  it                 
  would be prohibitive  without the authorization of  a school                 
  administrator.                                                               
                                                                               
  Representative J. Davies WITHDREW  the original Amendment #9                 
  and MOVED a new Amendment #9.  [Copy on file].  He explained                 
  that the new  amendment would use  the language that was  in                 
  the original Amendment #9 and  would be added to  subsection                 
  (7) & (8).  There being NO OBJECTION, it was adopted.                        
                                                                               
  CYNTHIA  HORA, DEPUTY  ATTORNEY GENERAL,  CRIMINAL DIVISION,                 
  DEPARTMENT OF LAW, spoke to whether  posting signs in public                 
                                                                               
                                5                                              
                                                                               
                                                                               
  places  would  create  a  sufficient  basis for  a  criminal                 
  trespass charge.   She pointed  out that even if  a sign was                 
  posted, the individual would have to be  confronted before a                 
  criminal trespass conviction could be  brought forward.  She                 
  advised  that Amendment  #4 would  address the  Department's                 
  recommended coverage.                                                        
                                                                               
  Mr. Babcock  commented that the  amendment is not  a concern                 
  with regard to evidence of misconduct  on either the part of                 
  the concealed weapon  holder or anyone  who wishes to  carry                 
  openly in a  public building.   He stated  that the  primary                 
  concern which the amendment would address would be to make a                 
  major  revision in  the criminal trespass  statute regarding                 
  access to public buildings.  He reiterated that all concerns                 
  of the Department of  Public Safety have been address  in SB
  141.                                                                         
                                                                               
  (Tape Change HFC 97-127, Side 2).                                            
                                                                               
  Co-Chair Hanley MOVED to  report HCS CS SB 141  (FIN) out of                 
  Committee  with  individual  recommendations  and  with  the                 
  accompanying fiscal notes.                                                   
                                                                               
  Representative  Grussendorf  OBJECTED   to  ask  a  question                 
  regarding the fiscal notes.  He pointed out that the initial                 
  bill  operated  from  program  receipts,  and had  an  added                 
  supplemental request.  Representative Grussendorf noted that                 
  the fees had once again been reduced.                                        
                                                                               
  Mr. Babcock commented  that the Department of  Public Safety                 
  has expressed concern  that without  an increase in  volume,                 
  there would be  a deficit in  program receipts.  The  Alaska                 
  Peace  Officers Association  objects to  lowering the  fees.                 
  Following   discussion   regarding   the    fiscal   impact,                 
  Representative Grussendorf WITHDREW the OBJECTION to  moving                 
  the  bill from Committee.  There being no further objection,                 
  it was so moved.                                                             
                                                                               
  HCS  CS  SB 141  (FIN) was  reported  out of  Committee with                 
  "individual recommendations"  and with  fiscal notes  by the                 
  Department of Public Safety, two dated 3/26/97 and one dated                 
  4/3/97.                                                                      
  HOUSE BILL 159                                                               
                                                                               
       "An Act relating  to sale, possession, and  purchase of                 
       tobacco and  tobacco products;  amending Rules  603 and                 
       611(d),  Alaska  Rules   of  Appellate  Procedure;  and                 
       providing for an effective date."                                       
                                                                               
  Co-Chair Therriault  MOVED to  report CS  HB 159  (FIN) from                 
  Committee  with  individual  recommendations  and  with  the                 
                                                                               
                                6                                              
                                                                               
                                                                               
  accompanying fiscal notes.  There being NO OBJECTION, it was                 
  so ordered.                                                                  
                                                                               
  CS  HB 159  (FIN) was reported  out of Committee  with a "no                 
  recommendation" and with  fiscal notes  by the Alaska  Court                 
  System   dated  4/17/97,  the  Department  of  Commerce  and                 
  Economic Development dated 4/17/97, the Department of Public                 
  Safety  dated  4/17/97,  the  Department  of  Revenue  dated                 
  4/17/97, the Department  of Law dated 4/17/97, and  two zero                 
  fiscal notes by the Department  of Administration, one dated                 
  4/17/97 and one new.                                                         
  SENATE BILL 150                                                              
                                                                               
       "An Act relating to moving expenses of state employees,                 
       to  compensatory  time  for  state  employees,  and  to                 
       calculation of  compensation for the  public employees'                 
       retirement system."                                                     
                                                                               
  ART CHANCE, COUNSEL  TO THE SENATE FINANCE  COMMITTEE, LABOR                 
  ISSUES,  JUNEAU,  provided  a  sectional   analysis  of  the                 
  proposed  legislation.   Section  #1  would  remove  certain                 
  provisions for coverage under the collective  bargaining act                 
  and the Public Employment Relations  Act (PERA).  Section #2                 
  would  require  an  employee  who  voluntarily  transfers to                 
  another location commit to five years at the location or pay                 
  the State all costs  incurred with that move.  He noted that                 
  Section  39.24.60 of the bill  was intended to eliminate any                 
  informal   compensatory   retirement   arrangements  between                 
  employees and supervisors.  Mr. Chance continued, Section #3                 
  would remove  overtime compensation  from the  definition of                 
  compensation for the purpose of calculating Public Employees                 
  Retirement System (PERS) benefits as a cost savings measure.                 
  This section would only effect new employees.  Any change to                 
  PERS  eligibility  must   be  prospective  because  of   the                 
  relationship  that PERS has with employees based on the time                 
  they entered into the system.                                                
                                                                               
  Representative J. Davies inquired if  adoption of Section #3                 
  would create  an additional  tier  within the  system.   Mr.                 
  Chance stated  that there  would be  an  additional kind  of                 
  calculation of eligibility for PERS.                                         
                                                                               
  Representative  Grussendorf  referenced  the moving  expense                 
  component  regarding  "voluntary"   transfer.    Mr.  Chance                 
  replied  that  there  are  provisions   in  both  the  labor                 
  agreement and  personnel rules regarding an  employee making                 
  their self  available  to  transfer  for  another  position.                 
  There are other  provisions for  an "involuntary"  transfer.                 
  If a person voluntarily offers to move to a new location, at                 
  that time they must  commit to five years or  be financially                 
  responsible  for  paying  the   moving  costs.    Discussion                 
                                                                               
                                7                                              
                                                                               
                                                                               
  followed regarding moving expenses.  Mr. Chance spoke to the                 
  pay  scale  differential  provided  in  moving   to  certain                 
  locations in  the State.   He added  that the  State is  not                 
  obligated to pay the moving expenses on a new hire.                          
                                                                               
  Representative  J. Davies observed that the proposed changes                 
  would not save  the State money,  but instead would  prevent                 
  people who currently work for the State to be able  to apply                 
  for  the  positions  that are  opening.    Consequently, two                 
  classes of people would be created;  those that work for the                 
  State and those  that do not.  Those that work for the State                 
  would be penalized for applying for the new positions.                       
                                                                               
  Representative Martin asked  if the proposition would  apply                 
  to teachers also.   Mr. Chance  replied that it would  apply                 
  only to the PERS employees.  Any teaching employees would be                 
  in the Teacher's Retirement System (TERS).                                   
                                                                               
  MIKE  MCMULLEN,  PERSONNEL MANAGER,  DIVISION  OF PERSONNEL,                 
  DEPARTMENT OF ADMINISTRATION,  noted that Section #2  of the                 
  proposed legislation would add two  new provisions.  Section                 
  39.24.50 would require  employees to repay with  interest if                 
  they leave within five years.  He  noted that Tier 2, passed                 
  in 1986, addresses that issue.  Since 1986, the employees in                 
  Tier 2 must have a geographic  differential covering half of                 
  the  credited   service  in   order  for   the  geographical                 
  differential to count  towards retirement.   That issue  has                 
  been solved.                                                                 
                                                                               
  The new provisions  in PERS would  apply only to new  hires.                 
  People in PERS before 1986 have the opportunity to be phased                 
  out.  He  stressed that this  section applies only to  State                 
  employees.  It would create a significant difference between                 
  the  travel  for a  new hire  and the  travel for  a current                 
  employee.   Current regulations provide  that a new  hire is                 
  required to  pay-back the  full amount  without interest  if                 
  they leave within two years.  For each six months of service                 
  which they  complete, 25% of  the charge would  be forgiven.                 
  The proposed legislation  would create a five  year required                 
  commitment for those people already in the system.                           
                                                                               
  Section #2 also  adds section  39.24.60 which would  require                 
  that  compound  payments be  in writing.   He  believed that                 
  those  problems would continue to exist.   The employees who                 
  currently violate, will continue to  violate if the proposed                 
  law passes.                                                                  
                                                                               
  Mr. McMullen spoke to Section #3 which  would stipulate that                 
  the employee not be covered in the contribution on  overtime                 
  or the  calculation of  benefits from  the overtime,  except                 
  those employees   who  are part of  PERS.   He spoke  to the                 
  number of  PERS employees  where overtime  is normal;  snow-                 
                                                                               
                                8                                              
                                                                               
                                                                               
  removal,  fire-fighting, fisheries  and forestry.    Tier #4                 
  will require that the State  decide whether the employee and                 
  employer will contribute into over-time compensation.                        
                                                                               
  Representative   Martin   questioned  the   compensation  of                 
  overtime hours.   Mr. McMullen explained that  at this time,                 
  the  employee  and   employer  contribute  based  on   total                 
  compensation.    Mr.  McMullen  thought  that  it  would  be                 
  complicated to try to adjust service instead of earnings.  A                 
  full  time  employee receives  credit  for the  actual years                 
  service.                                                                     
                                                                               
  Representative Grussendorf asked if the proposed legislation                 
  would save the State money.                                                  
                                                                               
  BILL  CHURCH,   SUPERVISOR,  DIVISION   OF  RETIREMENT   AND                 
  BENEFITS, DEPARTMENT  OF ADMINISTRATION, responded  that the                 
  Division has estimated that the bill will save approximately                 
  a  $6   million  dollar  decrease  from   required  employee                 
  contributions at  the end of  twenty-five years.   He agreed                 
  that there would be some savings resulting  from the portion                 
  contributed and  now paid on overtime by  the employer which                 
  would not be made in the future.                                             
                                                                               
  Representative    Grussendorf    pointed   out    that   the                 
  Administration is currently reviewing concerns of  over-time                 
  compensation.  He suggested  that  considering the  proposed                 
  savings, it would be in the State's best interest to address                 
  the  concerns.   Mr. Church  explained that  there are  many                 
  considerations   to  be  made   regarding  the  question  of                 
  overtime.  One would be voluntary over-time; the other would                 
  be required  overtime and  the added  costs associated  with                 
  additional employees hired.  He believed that overtime could                 
  end in saving  the employer  money and  could be  used as  a                 
  management  tool.  The bill does  not adequately address the                 
  overtime concern; people will continue to work over-time.                    
                                                                               
  (Tape Change HFC 97-128, Side 1).                                            
                                                                               
  In  response  to  Representative  J.  Davies,  Mr.  McMullen                 
  explained  that   there  are   many  departmental   seasonal                 
  operations.   The State  overtime level  is under  3%.   The                 
  retirement system estimate  is slightly over 4%  in overtime                 
  pay.  For  those persons  who get paid  for overtime,  their                 
  work  is  beyond their  control  and  that work  can  not be                 
  managed  in terms of more  bodies; overtime will continue to                 
  be needed and paid.                                                          
                                                                               
  Mr.  McMullen  noted   that  the   SBS  contributions   were                 
  calculated on  the total earnings  were based on  the social                 
  security cap.  Employees currently  receive credit up to the                 
  cap.                                                                         
                                                                               
                                9                                              
                                                                               
                                                                               
  JOHN CYR,  PRESIDENT, NATIONAL EDUCATION  ASSOCIATION (NEA),                 
  JUNEAU,  spoke  to Page  3,  Section  #3, Lines  22-23.   He                 
  explained   that   the  bill   originally   addressed  State                 
  employees, then the PERS  section was added.  In  the school                 
  districts,  there are  some non-certified employees  who are                 
  under the PERS  retirement system.   Over the course of  the                 
  last eight  years, many of  the employees  have found  their                 
  salary and their work year reduced.  These people do not get                 
  a  full  year's credit  toward the  PERS  system.   They are                 
  required by their supervisors to  be available for overtime.                 
  He suggested that  the proposed legislation was  designed to                 
  trap these employees particularly in the rural areas.   They                 
  are not eligible for unemployment.                                           
                                                                               
  GERON   BRUCE,   LEGISLATIVE   LIAISON,    OFFICE   OF   THE                 
  COMMISSIONER,  DEPARTMENT  OF FISH  AND  GAME, spoke  to the                 
  Department's  concerns  with  Section  #2  of  the  proposed                 
  legislation.  The  Department maintains forty-eight  offices                 
  throughout  the  State.   Not all  of  them are  manned year                 
  round.  Section #2 would impact placing employees into those                 
  communities and could act as a deterrent to someone  willing                 
  to accept an assignment to a remote community.  These people                 
  often work  without supervision  and the  Department is  not                 
  inclined to send new State workers to those locations.                       
                                                                               
  Mr.  Bruce added  that a  number  of situations  could occur                 
  within  a persons family which  could affect their five year                 
  commitment to a rural area.   Currently, it is required that                 
  a person make  a two year  commitment when moving to  a bush                 
  area.  An additional  concern, would be placing a  person in                 
  an place which was not working  out for either themselves or                 
  the community.   In  that instance,  it would  be better  to                 
  reassign them.  The  Department is not comfortable  with the                 
  five year recommended stay requirement.                                      
                                                                               
  Mr.  Bruce  added  that the  Department  uses  many seasonal                 
  employees in fishery  management.   Many of these  employees                 
  are  people  who  have  some  training  in biology  and  are                 
  permanent seasonal employees and make valuable contributions                 
  to the Department.  They are required to work overtime.   He                 
  stressed that  it would be  more expensive to  replace those                 
  people with a permanent employee  than paying them overtime.                 
                                                                               
                                                                               
  Representative   Mulder   commented   that    the   overtime                 
  compensation was  most likely not  the reason that  a person                 
  signed onto  a job, but rather, because the job was one they                 
  wanted  to  do.     He  agreed   that  overtime  should   be                 
  compensated, although, for purposes of retirement, it should                 
  not be calculated.   Mr.  Bruce replied that  some of  these                 
  workers look at the  work they do as their career.   They do                 
                                                                               
                               10                                              
                                                                               
                                                                               
  not  plan  to move  into  a different  position,  making the                 
  retirement  aspect   an  important  consideration.     Their                 
  experience is a valuable asset.                                              
                                                                               
  Representative J. Davies understood that the time of service                 
  was calculated by the number of  days worked, not the number                 
  of  hours.    The  consideration  is whether  your  overtime                 
  compensation would be  used in determining your  three years                 
  of highest compensation.                                                     
                                                                               
  Mr. Chance  clarified that  many seasonal  employees in  the                 
  general  government unit  already have  an arrangement  that                 
  their overtime is often treated  as compensatory time during                 
  the period  that they  would overwise  be laid  off.   Those                 
  people  are  taking   their  overtime  as  comp-time.     He                 
  continued, under the  Fair Labor  Standards Act,  it is  not                 
  "cast in stone" that the amount  paid the seasonal people is                 
  a low  hourly wage and a great deal  of overtime.  For those                 
  that  are not overtime eligible,  there are numerous ways to                 
  arrange a schedule so that the work demands can be met.                      
                                                                               
  Representative J. Davies MOVED to adopt Amendment #1.  [Copy                 
  on file].  Representative Mulder OBJECTED.                                   
                                                                               
  Representative J.  Davies explained that  Amendment #1 would                 
  change the time  period for  the moving expense  calculation                 
  from five years to three years.                                              
                                                                               
  Mr. Chance stated  there is an aging  and stable work-force.                 
  He agreed that anyone who had their initial PERS appointment                 
  would be subsequent to the 1986 changes.  A large percentage                 
  of the State employees  are Tier I employees, which  will be                 
  true for the next twenty years.                                              
                                                                               
  Co-Chair Therriault  questioned if the  proposed legislation                 
  would  impact past  employees.   Mr.  Chance stated  that it                 
  would,  although,  it  would  not  impact their  retirement.                 
  Representative J. Davies stated that  inclusion of five year                 
  stipulation  would create a  penalty clause to  a few within                 
  the system.                                                                  
                                                                               
  A roll call vote was taken on the MOTION.                                    
                                                                               
       IN FAVOR:      J. Davies, Grussendorf                                   
       OPPOSED:       G.  Davis,   Foster,  Kohring,   Martin,                 
                      Mulder, Therriault                                       
                                                                               
  Representatives Kelly, Moses and Hanley were not present for                 
  the vote.                                                                    
                                                                               
  The MOTION FAILED (2-6).                                                     
                                                                               
                                                                               
                               11                                              
                                                                               
                                                                               
  Representative J. Davies MOVED to adopt Amendment #2.  [Copy                 
  on file].  Representative Mulder OBJECTED.                                   
                                                                               
  Representative J.  Davies explained that  Amendment #2 would                 
  develop  a  pro  rated reduction  of  the  amount  of moving                 
  expenses  that  the   employee  would  be   responsible  for                 
  repaying.  Representative  Mulder stated  that the point  of                 
  the legislation suggests that if a person accepts a position                 
  in  the remote areas of  the State, they  must be willing to                 
  commit for a  specified amount of  time.  He suggested  that                 
  "implants" were taking jobs away from local hire.                            
                                                                               
  A roll call vote was taken on the MOTION.                                    
                                                                               
       IN FAVOR:      G.   Davis,   Grussendorf,   J.  Davies,                 
                      Therriault                                               
       OPPOSED:       Foster, Kohring, Martin, Mulder                          
                                                                               
  Representatives Kelly,  Moses, and  Hanley were  not present                 
  for the vote.                                                                
                                                                               
  The MOTION FAILED (4-4).                                                     
                                                                               
  Representative J. Davies MOVED to adopt Amendment #3.  [Copy                 
  on file].  There being NO OBJECTION, it was adopted.                         
                                                                               
  Representative J. Davies MOVED to adopt Amendment #4.  [Copy                 
  on file].  Representative Mulder OBJECTED.                                   
                                                                               
  Representative  J. Davies explained  that Amendment #4 would                 
  eliminate the purpose  of Section #3, defining  overtime pay                 
  as part of compensation  and then eliminating it.   He noted                 
  that  the   seasonal  workers   expect  that   their  annual                 
  compensation  will  be an  average  calculated over  all the                 
  months.                                                                      
                                                                               
  Representative  G. Davis disagreed,  pointing out that these                 
  employees have been rewarded for more  than their base pay.                  
                                                                               
                                                                               
  A roll call vote was taken on the MOTION.                                    
                                                                               
       IN FAVOR:      Grussendorf, J. Davies                                   
       OPPOSED:       Foster,  Kohring,  Martin,   Mulder,  G.                 
  Davis,                   Hanley, Therriault                                  
                                                                               
  Representatives Kelly  and Moses  were not  present for  the                 
  vote.                                                                        
                                                                               
  The MOTION FAILED (2-7).                                                     
                                                                               
  Representative J. Davies MOVED to adopt Amendment #5.  [Copy                 
                                                                               
                               12                                              
                                                                               
                                                                               
  on file].  Representative Mulder OBJECTED.                                   
                                                                               
  Representative J.  Davies explained that Amendment  #5 would                 
  place a limit on the total amount of compensation that could                 
  be credited for the retirement system.                                       
                                                                               
  (Tape Change HFC 97-128, Side 2).                                            
                                                                               
  A roll call vote was taken on the MOTION.                                    
                                                                               
       IN FAVOR:      Grussendorf, J. Davies                                   
       OPPOSED:       Kohring,  Martin,   Mulder,  G.   Davis,                 
                      Foster, Therriault, Hanley                               
                                                                               
  Representatives Kelly  and Moses  were not  present for  the                 
  vote.                                                                        
                                                                               
  The MOTION FAILED (2-7).                                                     
                                                                               
  Representative Mulder MOVED to report HCS CSSB 150 (FIN) out                 
  of Committee with  individual recommendations  and with  the                 
  accompanying  fiscal  note.     Representative   Grussendorf                 
  OBJECTED to make a  statement.  He noted that  the Committee                 
  had not  spent enough time  in addressing major  concerns of                 
  the legislation.  He WITHDREW the OBJECTION.  There being NO                 
  further OBJECTION, it was adopted.                                           
                                                                               
  HCS CSSB  150  (FIN)  was reported  out  of  Committee  with                 
  individual recommendations and  with a  zero fiscal note  by                 
  all departments dated 4/4/97.                                                
  ADJOURNMENT                                                                  
                                                                               
  The meeting adjourned at 4:45 P.M.                                           
                                                                               
                                                                               
                               13                                              
**FIN128AM                                                                     

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