Legislature(2005 - 2006)CAPITOL 106
03/14/2006 11:00 AM House EDUCATION
| Audio | Topic |
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| HB247 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| += | HB 247 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | TELECONFERENCED |
ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE
HOUSE SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON EDUCATION
March 14, 2006
11:10 a.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Mark Neuman, Chair
Representative Carl Gatto
Representative Bob Lynn
Representative Bill Thomas
Representative Peggy Wilson
Representative Les Gara
MEMBERS ABSENT
Representative Woodie Salmon
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
HOUSE BILL NO. 247
"An Act establishing a grant program to support voluntary class
size reduction."
- HEARD AND HELD
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION
BILL: HB 247
SHORT TITLE: CLASS SIZE REDUCTION GRANTS
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) CROFT
04/04/05 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
04/04/05 (H) EDU, HES, FIN
05/03/05 (H) EDU AT 11:00 AM CAPITOL 106
05/03/05 (H) -- Meeting Canceled --
03/14/06 (H) EDU AT 11:00 AM CAPITOL 106
WITNESS REGISTER
REPRESENTATIVE ERIC CROFT
Alaska State Legislature
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified as the sponsor of HB 247.
CAROL COMEAU, Superintendent
Anchorage School District
Anchorage, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Discussed the pros and cons of HB 247.
ACTION NARRATIVE
CHAIR MARK NEUMAN called the House Special Committee on
Education meeting to order at 11:10:40 AM. Representatives
Neuman, Wilson, Gatto, and Lynn were present at the call to
order. Representatives Thomas and Gara arrived as the meeting
was in progress.
HB 247-CLASS SIZE REDUCTION GRANTS
[Contains brief mention of HB 228.]
11:10:57 AM
CHAIR NEUMAN announced that the only order of business would be
HOUSE BILL NO. 247, "An Act establishing a grant program to
support voluntary class size reduction." He informed the
committee that it was his intent to hold the bill because he
would like the committee to first hear and compare similar
proposed legislation, HB 228, sponsored by Representative Jim
Holm.
11:11:36 AM
REPRESENTATIVE ERIC CROFT, Alaska State Legislature, as sponsor
of HB 247, opined that given a small enough class size, teachers
are allowed sufficient time to teach which is one of the most
important aspects of public education. He highlighted that data
has shown that a class size of 30 pupils makes it difficult to
effectively teach. Furthermore, he relayed that reductions in
class size to 15 to 18 students has shown "dramatic results in
terms of student achievement." He then directed the committee's
attention to the attached fiscal note of $120 million. He
expressed his belief that this amount and more is well worth the
improvement it will make to education. He explained that this
is not a "typical" class size [reduction] bill because unlike
other state mandates, this one would provide the needed funding.
He then referred to the [Tennessee Department of Education
Student Teacher Achievement Ratio study (Project STAR)] on class
size reduction. He said 6,000 Tennessee students were placed in
three different classes: a reduced class of 17 or 18 students,
a "normal" class size, and a normal class size with a teacher
aide.
11:17:36 AM
CHAIR NEUMAN inquired as to the cost per student in Tennessee
and how it compares to the amount Alaska spends per student.
REPRESENTATIVE CROFT replied that he did not have this
information but would find out. He said that although Project
STAR was implemented as a study and determined that class size
reduction made significant improvements to education, he was not
certain whether the study went any further than that. He
suggested that "the cost to implement this may have scared
Tennessee off." A class size reduction study was done in
Florida as well, he relayed, however funding any changes to
class sizes was determined too costly. He suggested that this
committee first "prove to ourselves ... that it has significant
results and then let's talk about whether we're willing to spend
the money to achieve those results."
11:19:13 AM
REPRESENTATIVE LYNN opined that it would be like "going to lot
of trouble to prove the obvious" and that one could even say
having a private tutor would be ideal. He referred to his
former years as a teacher for a class of 43 students with no
teacher aides and expressed his belief that effective education
is more a matter of the kinds of students in a class than the
total number.
REPRESENTATIVE WILSON offered her belief that lowering numbers
of classroom students might be "a nightmare for schools." She
asked what would happen to the extra kids per classroom, or with
the kids in combined-grade classrooms, and whether there would
be enough classrooms to accommodate the change.
REPRESENTATIVE CROFT, returning to the statement made by
Representative Lynn, said he agreed that the benefits to class
size reduction is "proving the obvious" yet how much of a
reduction or how big an effect is information he would like to
share with the committee. Additionally, he expressed his hope
that HB 247 provides "the maximum flexibility and incentive for
districts to [implement class size reduction] without mandating
exactly how they do it ...." He returned to the Project STAR
study and highlighted that dramatic results were seen for those
class sizes reduced to 15 to 18 students. Other studies have
shown that solely lowering class size closer to 20 students is
not as effective. He said that "there's a magic sort of sweet
spot around the 15 to 18 [students per classroom]" where the
disruptive influence of unruly students is dramatically reduced,
where time spent with the teacher is dramatically increased, and
when the "feedback loop" is shortened. This latter, he
explained, is the time it takes for a student to learn from the
teacher whether his or her answer is correct or not. He relayed
that "it's vital to have that [feedback loop] be a fairly quick
turnaround - the more they sit with the wrong answer, or right
answer they don't know is right, the less they're learning." He
directed the committee's attention to the chart on page 154 of
the report on Project Star entitled, "The Enduring Effects of
Small Classes," showing the "SAT grade equivalents" from
kindergarten through third grade. He noted that those
kindergartners participating in Project STAR tested .5 months
ahead in reading and word skills, and over 1.5 months ahead in
math skills by the end of the year. These results, he said, are
"significant but fairly modest gains" compared to the third
grade students who tested 4.5 months ahead of those students in
a class size of 25 students, 5.5 months ahead in word study
skills, and 2.6 months ahead in math skills. He then directed
the committee's attention to the graphs on page [156] which show
the increased benefit to those students enrolled more years in
the smaller class sizes. He noted an example of the gains for
second graders up to 5.8, or "essentially half a year ahead of
[those students in fuller classes]."
11:28:19 AM
REPRESENTATIVE THOMAS inquired as to whether there are any
comparative studies on those students who are home schooled
versus those taught in a large classroom setting.
REPRESENTATIVE CROFT said that the superintendent of
Delta/Greeley School District conveyed to him that those who
home school and follow a curriculum tend to do very well. He
opined that "home schooling can be tremendously effective if the
parents are truly involved in teaching and not very effective if
they're not doing much."
REPRESENTATIVE THOMAS expressed his belief that the attached
fiscal note is lacking in that it does not include capital
construction. This expense, he explained, would derive from the
need to build more classrooms to house the overflow of students
resulting from decreasing the number of students per classroom.
11:30:22 AM
REPRESENTATIVE CROFT announced that before he addressed how to
implement smaller class sizes, he had one additional benefit to
highlight for the committee. He relayed that not only were
[Project STAR] students tested in earlier grades, but also in
later grades to determine whether the benefits of being in
smaller class sizes "fade away" upon returning to larger class
sizes. "The short answer is 'no'," he said.
REPRESENTATIVE GARA inquired as to whether reducing the class
size could be limited to core classes in order to help lower the
expense.
REPRESENTATIVE CROFT relayed that in some states, limits have
been applied to Title I schools. He then turned the discussion
to the failed attempts by other states to reduce class size. He
referred to the State of Georgia which mandated that class sizes
be reduced statewide until it was realized there were not
sufficient funds to back the project. He explained that [HB
247] is a voluntary grant program and not mandated. "No school
district in the state has to reduce [its] class size if [it]
doesn't want to," he said. He relayed that those schools which
choose to participate would receive financial assistance.
CHAIR NEUMAN interjected that he could "not imagine why any
school district in the state would not say, 'You bet I'll take
that money' ...." He then sought confirmation of this from
Carol Comeau, superintendent of the Anchorage School District.
11:33:58 AM
CAROL COMEAU, Superintendent, Anchorage School District (ASD),
expressed her belief that school districts would take advantage
of the program if assured of high-quality teachers.
Additionally, she opined that having an [adequate number] of
facilities is a real concern and that a school might be faced
with the question of where to place a possible sixteenth student
when its class sizes are set at a maximum of 15 students. She
opined that establishing a 5-year period for the project is a
good commitment. However, she remarked that the language in the
bill regarding the possibility of a parent "going to court ...
to compel a district to honor their commitment" is unclear to
her. She repeated her concern in how a very mobile, transient
district like ASD would deal with "the sixteenth or even the
seventeenth student" once committed to a 15:1 class size
[ratio].
11:35:33 AM
REPRESENTATIVE GATTO, in regard to building new space, suggested
there may not be a need to do so by simply dividing the space
with a curtain. [The real expense], he opined, might be the
need to hire additional teachers. He noted that smaller size
classes already exist in the bush and larger class sizes in
urban areas.
MS. COMEAU explained that depending on the school and the
mobility factor, ASD does have classroom sizes of 15 to 16
students through the aid of federal, class-size reduction funds.
Given that these classes are taught by highly qualified
teachers, she expressed the effectiveness of having a [smaller
class size].
REPRESENTATIVE THOMAS, in regard to possible abuse of the
program, asked whether those rural schools that currently have
smaller class sizes of 15 students wouldn't already qualify to
receive the $8,000 [per student].
REPRESENTATIVE CROFT added that many of these rural classrooms
contain mixed grades. However, he explained that regardless of
the existing mix or number, whether a rural or urban school, any
school with kindergarten through third grade students enrolled
in a small class size, and furthermore guarantees they will
maintain that small class size, would receive the additional
funding. He said that although capital construction may be
significant, he suggested that decisions regarding construction
might be ones the districts would prefer to make themselves
[rather than at the state level]. He relayed that given the way
the bill is structured, there will likely be as many different
"solutions to this" as there are school districts.
CHAIR NEUMAN informed the committee that all 53 Alaska school
districts were invited to participate in this discussion.
11:40:50 AM
REPRESENTATIVE WILSON remarked that although this is a fantastic
bill, she wondered how school districts could tackle the project
given all the existing challenges they face: increased heating
costs, teacher turnover, increased insurance rates, and the
funding of retirement benefits. She expressed her belief that
the districts "would like [the funding] to come in a different
way." She relayed that the primary concern of the schools in
her district are the school cost-differentials.
11:42:10 AM
CHAIR NEUMAN referred to earlier presentations on early
childhood education opportunities and the cost of running such
programs. He noted the similar goals to providing earlier
education and creating smaller class sizes: "teaching kids to
learn how to learn." Determining the best means to accomplish
this goal is an on-going question among the school districts, he
said, and a challenge given all the other obligations districts
face.
REPRESENTATIVE CROFT relayed that he has been "fighting for
increases in the foundation formula for 10 years" and opined
that "nothing significant" has happened in regard to increasing
education funding. He suggested that simply announcing possible
monetary increases is not sufficient and that a new approach is
needed to convey how to achieve the goals to improve education.
He expressed his belief that his goal of reducing class size is
tangible, understandable, and one to which Alaskans would be
willing to commit.
CHAIR NEUMAN asked Ms. Comeau where she believed "we get the
best bang for our buck": funding early childhood education or
[reducing class size] from kindergarten through third grade.
MS. COMEAU expressed her belief that more should be invested in
prekindergarten (Pre-K) through third grade. In response to
Chair Neuman, she said she could not [easily] make the
distinction as to which age group, Pre-K or grades K-3, should
be addressed first. She relayed that if she had to choose one
over the other, it "would be grades K-3 because it's in the
system already." However, she remarked that in addressing K-3
alone "we would be missing the boat" because many of the kids
entering kindergarten are not ready to learn. "Lower class size
will help them immeasurably ... but they would do so much better
if they'd had some help before [entering school]," she said.
She highlighted that what she likes most about HB 247 is that it
gives the local school districts the power to decide whether or
not they wish to participate in the class size reduction
program.
11:50:27 AM
REPRESENTATIVE GARA referred to the different amounts of oil
revenue that would be generated at the 25 percent tax rate [as
opposed to the 20 percent rate] and suggested this as a possible
source for funding early childhood education. He then said that
every year the implementation of small class sizes is delayed,
more schools are built that cannot accommodate this change. He
asked Representative Croft how he would feel about adding a
provision that requires new school construction be done in such
a way as to ensure it can accommodate the change to small class
sizes.
REPRESENTATIVE CROFT said that he agreed with this idea. He
informed the committee that he has already approached Eddy
Jeans, the director of School Finance at the Department of
Education and Early Development and that an amendment to the
facility specs addresses this. Returning to questions regarding
"what do you do with that 16th kid," he relayed that he had
considered including waiver language that would allow more than
15 students "for a brief period of time" yet decided against it.
He explained that he wanted parents to have the guarantee that
their child would be in a classroom of no more than 15 students.
He opined that the grant would provide sufficient funds to shift
class numbers as needed without exceeding 15 students. However,
he suggested the committee include waiver language if it wished.
CHAIR NEUMAN stated his preference that Representative Croft
provide the committee with suggestions on how to word this.
11:55:03 AM
REPRESENTATIVE THOMAS, referring to the large number of school
districts he represents, opined that the rural students are the
ones being "choked in by school sizes and money not being
there." He expressed his belief that the [focus should be] on
fixing the cost-differential and that Senate Bill 36 [from the
Twentieth Alaska State Legislature] "was wrong."
REPRESENTATIVE CROFT informed the committee that he was the only
legislator from Anchorage or Fairbanks to vote against Senate
Bill 36 and relayed that his concerns were similar to those of
Representative Thomas's.
CHAIR NEUMAN said that through conversations he's had with rural
school districts, it was conveyed to him that they don't believe
they will benefit from [HB 247] because they don't have the
required class sizes. He relayed that these districts think the
money would be better spent on increasing the base student
allocation (BSA).
REPRESENTATIVE CROFT expressed his belief that the opposite is
true. According to the information he has received, he said
that there are a "fair amount of rural schools that ... have
already made the sacrifices to have [smaller class sizes], so
they would qualify already."
REPRESENTATIVE WILSON opined that the rural schools have been
underfunded for so long that "they would love to apply for
something like this," however, would not be able to do so
because they are financially so far behind.
11:58:14 AM
CHAIR NEUMAN remarked on the variety of education issues
requiring funding: early education, smaller class sizes, cost-
differential studies, and different educational delivery
systems. He announced that HB 247 would be held over.
11:58:59 AM
ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business before the committee, the House
Special Committee on Education meeting was adjourned at 11:58
a.m.
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