Legislature(2009 - 2010)CAPITOL 106
04/01/2009 08:00 AM House EDUCATION
| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| Confirmation Hearing(s)|| Professional Teaching Practices Commission | |
| HB197 | |
| HB204 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| *+ | HB 197 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | TELECONFERENCED | ||
| + | TELECONFERENCED | ||
| += | HB 204 | TELECONFERENCED | |
ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE
HOUSE EDUCATION STANDING COMMITTEE
April 1, 2009
8:00 a.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Paul Seaton, Chair
Representative Cathy Engstrom Munoz, Vice Chair
Representative Bryce Edgmon
Representative Wes Keller
Representative Peggy Wilson
Representative Robert L. "Bob" Buch
Representative Berta Gardner
MEMBERS ABSENT
All members present
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
CONFIRMATION HEARING(S)
Professional Teaching Practices Commission
Linda Lee Gilliam Black - Anchorage
Louis Pondolfino - Anchorage
- CONFIRMATION(S) ADVANCED
HOUSE BILL NO. 197
"An Act establishing minimum standards for open enrollment
virtual charter schools; and relating to student count estimates
and facilities constituting a school."
- HEARD AND HELD
HOUSE BILL NO. 204
"An Act increasing the number of students pursuing a medical
education who are provided postsecondary educational services
and programs; and providing for an effective date."
- HEARD AND HELD
CONFIRMATION HEARING(S)
Board of Education
Carol Schaeffer - Kotzebue
- SCHEDULED BUT NOT HEARD
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION
BILL: HB 197
SHORT TITLE: VIRTUAL CHARTER SCHOOLS
SPONSOR(s): REPRESENTATIVE(s) KELLER
03/23/09 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
03/23/09 (H) EDC, FIN
04/01/09 (H) EDC AT 8:00 AM CAPITOL 106
BILL: HB 204
SHORT TITLE: POSTSECONDARY MEDICAL EDUC. PROG.
SPONSOR(s): REPRESENTATIVE(s) DAHLSTROM
03/23/09 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
03/23/09 (H) EDC, FIN
03/30/09 (H) EDC AT 8:00 AM CAPITOL 106
03/30/09 (H) Heard & Held
03/30/09 (H) MINUTE(EDC)
04/01/09 (H) EDC AT 8:00 AM CAPITOL 106
WITNESS REGISTER
LINDA LEE GILLAM BLACK, Appointee
Professional Teaching Practices Commission (PTCP)
Anchorage, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: As appointee to the Professional Teaching
Practices Commission (PTPC), provided background and answered
questions.
LOUIS PONDOLFINO, Appointee
Professional Teaching Practices Commission (PTPC)
Anchorage, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: As appointee to the Professional Teaching
Practices Commission (PTPC), provided background and answered
questions.
JIM POUND, Staff
Representative Wes Keller
Alaska State Legislature
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: During hearing on HB 197, answered
questions on behalf of the prime sponsor, Representative Keller.
EDDY JEANS, Director
School Finance
Department of Education and Early Development (EED)
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Provided testimony on HB 197.
NARDA BUTLER, Chair
Academic Policy Committee
Frontier Charter School
Anchorage, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Expressed concerns with HB 197.
TIM SCOTT, Principal
Frontier Charter School
Anchorage, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Expressed concerns with HB 197.
ALLISON POWELL
International Association for K-12 Online Learning (iNACOL)
POSITION STATEMENT: During the hearing of HB 197, offered
information about iNACOL.
KIKI ABRAHAMSON, President
Alaska Charter Schools Association (ACSA);
Fireweed Academy
Homer, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: During the hearing on HB 197, reminded the
committee of the equity issues related to funding that already
exist in Alaska's existing schools.
SAM DIX, Staff
Representative Nancy Dahlstrom
Alaska State Legislature
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Presented CSHB 204, Version R, on behalf of
the prime sponsor, Representative Dahlstrom.
ALICE RARIG, Planner IV
Department of Health and Social Services (HSS)
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Responded to questions on HB 204.
REPRESENTATIVE NANCY DAHLSTROM
Alaska State Legislature
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Spoke as the prime sponsor of HB 204.
ACTION NARRATIVE
8:00:57 AM
CHAIR PAUL SEATON called the House Education Standing Committee
meeting to order at 8:00 a.m. Representatives Seaton, Wilson,
Edgmon, Gardner, Buch, and Keller were present at the call to
order. Representative Munoz arrived as the meeting was in
progress.
^CONFIRMATION HEARING(S)
^Professional Teaching Practices Commission
8:01:39 AM
CHAIR SEATON announced that the first order of business would be
the confirmation hearing for the appointees to the Professional
Teaching Practices Commission.
8:02:22 AM
LINDA LEE GILLAM BLACK, Appointee, Professional Teaching
Practices Commission, informed the committee that she retired
after 30 years with the Anchorage School District and has been
teaching at the Alaska Pacific University for the past five
years. Ms. Black noted that she has served on the PTPC for
three years and this would be a reappointment. In response to
Representative Gardner, Ms. Black related that she was born in
Fairbanks.
8:03:48 AM
REPRESENTATIVE WILSON inquired as to why Ms. Black is interested
in serving on the PTPC.
MS. BLACK responded that the PTPC plays an important role with
regard to the ethics of the profession, including when a breach
of ethics has occurred. She opined that the aforementioned is
very critical in terms of teacher preparation.
8:04:50 AM
CHAIR SEATON asked if the PTPC has a role in promoting that
education be presented to students in a relevant way in order to
address the drop-out rate.
MS. BLACK responded that PTPC's primary focus is on professional
ethics, although she opined that everyone has a role to play
with regard to making education relevant to youth in order to
avoid dropouts. She characterized making education relevant to
youth as a more general professional obligation rather than
specific to PTPC.
CHAIR SEATON expressed his hope that the PTPC would promote the
general professional standards that would [make education
relevant to Alaska's youth]. He noted that the committee has
been trying to address [making education relevant to Alaska's
youth].
8:07:21 AM
LOUIS PONDOLFINO, Appointee, Professional Teaching Practices
Commission (PTPC), informed the committee that he is currently
the Service High School principal and has been for the last five
years. Prior to his existing position, he was the assistant
principal at East High School for three years and prior to that
a middle and high school teacher in the Anchorage School
District for ten years. Mr. Pondolfino related that he is
interested in serving on the PTPC because he wants to have a
positive influence on the teaching profession and represent
Alaskans on matters that concern the teaching profession.
8:08:53 AM
REPRESENTATIVE WILSON related her observation that classrooms
have an antiquated appearance. Furthermore, it seems that
children are being taught much the same way that they have been
for many years, she opined. Therefore, she inquired as to
whether Mr. Pondolfino believes some changes are necessary or
not.
MR. PONDOLFINO opined that there are many things that work well
and always have worked well. Interestingly, he related that
often those in the teaching profession have faced the criticism
that teachers don't teach like they once did and are asked why.
He said that teachers have to be progressive in their thinking
as they are preparing students for jobs that aren't even created
yet. At Service High School things do appear quite different
than when he was in school 30 years ago, particularly in the
area of technology. In terms of programs, the focus is on
relevance and trying to keep students engaged by showing them
what they do at school is relevant to life after graduation.
Every student at Service High School fills out post-graduation
plans each fall and teachers address them in the spring. Mr.
Pondolfino pointed out that although what's on the post-
graduation plan isn't so important since it may change, the fact
that there is a plan is important. Also, an effort is being
made to bring back career and technical education, which was
lost when funds were diverted to technology and computers in the
1980s. The monumental task before educators is to figure out
the job market in the next generation.
8:12:18 AM
REPRESENTATIVE WILSON said she was impressed, and expressed
interest in all high schools taking on efforts similar to those
at Service High School.
REPRESENTATIVE GARDNER recalled that her children attended East
High School when Mr. Pondolfino was there. She also recalled
that her family, the East High School staff, and the East High
School student body had a good opinion of Mr. Pondolfino.
8:13:30 AM
REPRESENTATIVE KELLER moved to advance the names of Linda Lee
Gilliam Black and Louis Pondolfino for confirmation to the
Professional Teaching Practices Commission to the full
legislature for consideration. There being no objection, it was
so ordered.
HB 197-VIRTUAL CHARTER SCHOOLS
8:13:57 AM
CHAIR SEATON announced that the next order of business would be
HOUSE BILL NO. 197, "An Act establishing minimum standards for
open enrollment virtual charter schools; and relating to student
count estimates and facilities constituting a school."
8:15:17 AM
REPRESENTATIVE KELLER, speaking as the prime sponsor of HB 197,
highlighted that Alaska has a challenge since 37 percent of the
state's schools have less than 100 students and are located in
rural remote settings. However, the solution of education
technology has been available for a number of years now, as
related in the 2006 Legislative Resolve 43. Legislative Resolve
43 served as the backdrop for HB 197. Technology, he opined,
mitigates the impact of distance and time. In fact, in the
Lower 48 there's a 47 percent increase in the use of on-line
courses by educators across the nation since 2006.
Representative Keller explained that the idea with HB 197 is to
create open enrollment virtual charter schools with standards
that raise the bar a bit, particularly for those in rural areas.
He stated that HB 197 won't change anything; it merely
establishes a standard for these virtual charter schools. He
noted that he has asked the Department of Education and Early
Development (EED) to help with the language in the last section
of HB 197, to which EED agreed. The legislation, which he
characterized as fairly simple, assures that there is open
enrollment for charter schools with on-line access to courses,
records, and individual learning plans. The school boards will
be consulted regarding how best to form these individual
learning plans, monitoring the process of the students, and the
assessment process. He characterized it as a charter contract.
Representative Keller expressed interest in the committee
helping him to refine the standards for virtual charter schools.
He then pointed out that there will be a conceptual amendment
necessary to address the portion of the legislation regarding
when student counts are performed due to the open enrollment of
these charter schools.
8:19:38 AM
REPRESENTATIVE KELLER, in response to Representative Wilson,
explained that typically most schools aren't open year round for
enrollment. Therefore, students may enroll at certain times of
the year when they wouldn't be counted in that schools student
count. In such cases, the enrolling school doesn't receive
funding for the student who enrolled after open enrollment.
REPRESENTATIVE WILSON opined that such happens in all schools.
She related that she knows of a school that received three
intensive needs students after the student count, and thus the
school never received funding for those students.
REPRESENTATIVE KELLER requested that discussion on that matter
be held once the conceptual amendment is offered.
8:21:13 AM
REPRESENTATIVE KELLER, completing his presentation of HB 197,
explained that the next to the last section of the legislation
specifies that part-time students in an open enrollment charter
school will not be counted in the districts average daily
membership (ADM). The very last section of HB 197 could be
deleted, he noted, and the legislation would still be very
valuable. He opined that a virtual open enrollment charter
school likely won't have as much difficulty reaching a minimum
size as would a smaller district. Representative Keller
explained that since standards for the open enrollment virtual
charter schools are going to be set higher than [existing
schools], perhaps then any school meeting these higher standards
could qualify with a smaller [ADM]. However, penning the
language to that effect became difficult, which is why he asked
EED for help.
8:23:01 AM
REPRESENTATIVE MUNOZ surmised then that one goal of HB 197 is to
allow existing schools to increase enrollment by providing on-
line services outside of the district.
REPRESENTATIVE KELLER clarified that is the intent of the first
section of HB 197, while the last section is to include any
charter or alternative school that would choose to meet the
standards of the open enrollment charter school.
8:23:37 AM
REPRESENTATIVE MUNOZ further surmised that HB 197 would allow
existing schools to provide their curriculum statewide as well
as new virtual charter schools.
REPRESENTATIVE KELLER further clarified that the legislation
would allow a district that forms an open enrollment virtual
charter school to offer those courses across the state, not just
any school.
8:24:20 AM
REPRESENTATIVE MUNOZ asked then whether existing schools would
be able to offer their existing curriculum on-line in a virtual
charter school.
REPRESENTATIVE KELLER answered that there is no restriction on
that.
8:24:42 AM
JIM POUND, Staff, Representative Wes Keller, Alaska State
Legislature, specified that essentially existing charter schools
would be able to expand into the virtual capability by meeting
the standards set out in HB 197.
8:25:14 AM
REPRESENTATIVE BUCH remarked that he believes the state is on
the cusp of some revelations, with [virtual education] being one
of them. He thanked the sponsor for his efforts. He then
directed attention to the sectional analysis for Section 1,
which specifies that the open enrollment virtual charter school
will exceed the minimum high school graduation requirements
through direct engagement with the student and the student's
parent to establish a learning plan. He inquired as to where in
the legislation it requires some sort of contact.
REPRESENTATIVE KELLER explained that in order to be an open
enrollment charter school, there has to be a plan or charter
with the school board. What the plan or charter has to include
is specified on page 2, lines 10-14, including: "if possible,
the student's parents, in the development of the student's
individualized learning plan".
8:27:31 AM
REPRESENTATIVE BUCH acknowledged that language, but opined that
it isn't direct contact, which he interpreted to mean face-to-
face or ear-to-ear. He further acknowledged that the idea is to
be in a virtual environment. However, he expressed his desire
for there to be assessment capabilities whereby there is a means
to assess the ongoing contact required.
REPRESENTATIVE KELLER stated that the intent is to try to avoid
micromanaging at the statutory level. The legislation is
written as it is because it's problematic to define what the
meeting consists of. The intent of the language, he specified,
is to charge the district with making a plan. He conceded that
perhaps it would be appropriate to include the term "direct" in
reference to the contact language.
8:29:24 AM
REPRESENTATIVE WILSON related her understanding that one of the
core principles of charter schools is parental involvement. If
the aforementioned is going to be changed, she expressed concern
that a parent who doesn't have time to be involved with his/her
children would decide to enroll his/her children in this type of
distance learning program. She expressed interest in
maintaining the core principles for charter schools.
REPRESENTATIVE KELLER said that isn't the intent. An open
enrollment virtual charter school is organized under the
existing charter school law, which includes an advisory panel of
parents that run the school. The aforementioned will remain.
This proposed legislation specifies that in order to qualify as
an open enrollment virtual charter school, the plan has to
include working with the student and his/her parents in order to
have a plan for graduation and post-graduation. This
legislation merely adds to what a charter school already is and
doesn't take anything away.
8:31:42 AM
REPRESENTATIVE GARDNER asked if it's possible for a group of
parents to form a school such as proposed in HB 197 and ask for
approval under existing charter school regulations.
REPRESENTATIVE KELLER answered absolutely. In further response
to Representative Gardner, Representative Keller explained that
HB 197 encourages the standards to be raised. He highlighted
the fact that under HB 197 open enrollment would occur year
round, which he characterized as an improvement.
8:32:33 AM
REPRESENTATIVE GARDNER surmised then that already parents could
come together to form a charter school and could decide that
it's going to be a year round, virtual school. She related that
she's confused as to why this legislation is necessary.
REPRESENTATIVE KELLER reiterated that 37 percent of the state's
schools are quite small and remote. There are parents in some
districts that have a vision that goes beyond their district and
rural school. Therefore, this legislation would establish a
parameter that would require a charter school that reaches
across the state to meet the standards set out in HB 197. He
echoed his earlier desire to raise the bar and set high
standards. He reminded the committee that in the last two-three
years alone there has been a 47 percent increase in the number
of on-line courses students are taking. Therefore, the intent
of HB 197 is to catch the wave of on-line courses and set high
standards.
8:35:04 AM
REPRESENTATIVE MUNOZ recalled that there's an on-line statewide
charter school operated out of Galena. Therefore, she, too,
questioned how HB 197 changes what's allowed under the current
law. Additionally, Representative Munoz recalled that existing
law has a cap that only allows 60 charter schools statewide.
She suggested that it would be helpful to have an idea of the
number of charter schools being contemplated under HB 197. She
then questioned whether the sponsor contemplated a minimum
enrollment.
REPRESENTATIVE KELLER clarified that the Galena School is a
correspondence program. This legislation proposes an open
enrollment virtual charter school that's not a correspondence
program. He pointed out that charter schools are the only type
of school that's well-defined in statute. This legislation
doesn't propose a home school support program, like the one in
Galena. Representative Keller said that he is comfortable with
the existing cap on the number of charter schools statewide.
With regard to the minimum number of students to constitute a
school, he opined that it's less of a problem for virtual
schools because the potential student base is much wider. The
last section of HB 197 includes the cap in order to benefit the
existing charter schools and alternative schools because it's
not really necessary for the open enrollment charter schools.
8:38:45 AM
REPRESENTATIVE BUCH inquired as to the availability of resources
to support the necessary technology for these virtual charter
schools.
REPRESENTATIVE KELLER pointed out that there are different ways
that technology can be utilized. For example, there could be a
situation in which a teacher is giving a lesson to students who
are on-line. The aforementioned would require a lot of
bandwidth. "We are not set up to do that across the state," he
acknowledged. However, all schools have Internet connections
and course downloads could be performed at night. According to
the 2000 census, 70 percent of Alaskans are already on-line. He
noted that the Yukon Kuskokwim Delta area schools have a
microwave system between schools, and therefore they could do
really exotic schools.
REPRESENTATIVE BUCH commented that he found it interesting since
the Yukon Kuskokwim Delta area schools have the worst reputation
in the state. He then commented that perhaps HB 197 may be the
answer.
8:40:40 AM
REPRESENTATIVE WILSON characterized what's proposed in HB 197 as
essentially a virtual correspondence school. She asked if this
proposed open enrollment charter school has to follow the same
rules as correspondence schools.
REPRESENTATIVE KELLER answered that any number of technological
approaches could be used, such as e-mail. Virtual means that
technology is used as the vehicle for the student's learning
plan. He stated that a virtual school won't be restricted by
the rules that apply to a correspondence school program. The
legislation proposes a charter school and those are the
regulations and rules under which it will operate. In further
response to Representative Wilson, Representative Keller
clarified that this legislation is for full-time students, not
part-time students. He said he would expect a student to enroll
in a virtual charter school, create a graduation plan and meet
the postsecondary training requirements, and follow through with
the specified class courses.
REPRESENTATIVE WILSON remarked that she understood that to be
what correspondence schools do. Therefore, she questioned how
what this legislation proposes is different from correspondence
schools. She then asked about Section 3 and whether it's at the
point at which it should even be discussed.
REPRESENTATIVE KELLER confirmed that Section 3 is not complete.
He related that although he has a conceptual amendment to fix
Section 3, he recommended waiting to hear EED's comments on
Section 3 as well as Section 1.
8:45:21 AM
MR. POUND, in response to earlier comments and questions, said
that the difference between the proposed virtual charter schools
and the existing virtual correspondence schools are that they
are specialized. He informed the committee that the Native
Culture Charter School in Anchorage spent several months
attempting to obtain enough students to make the school viable.
The proposed virtual charter school would provide an opportunity
for the Native Culture Charter School to reach out to the rural
areas and become viable. This legislation also provides an
opportunity for the Wrangell school system to use this proposed
model and avoid the ADM problems it has faced in the past.
Furthermore, schools such as those in Tenakee Springs, which is
advertising for students, could utilize this proposed virtual
program to satisfy ADM requirements. Those are communities that
aren't even that rural, he stressed. However, there are
communities in northern Alaska where there might be only three
students at a school, and those students don't have the
opportunity for a quality education. What's proposed in HB 197
will provide the aforementioned students the opportunity to
receive a quality education based on the specified graduation
standards.
8:47:35 AM
CHAIR SEATON suggested that it's much more likely that a virtual
charter school will be formed in Juneau or Anchorage rather than
Tenakee Springs, and thus the ADM of other schools will decrease
and perhaps even to the point of having to close the physical
school.
MR. POUND noted his agreement, but pointed out that the school
buildings likely won't close because they often also function as
the community centers. He then suggested that even under the
charter school system there will likely be a requirement for
some sort of educator to remain in the village in order to
maintain some kind of education level.
8:48:38 AM
CHAIR SEATON related his understanding that in Hope the school,
which is owned by the school district, will close if the ADM
drops below 10 for two years in a row. He reiterated his
concern that this proposal may close the main functioning part
of many small Alaskan communities.
MR. POUND said that he isn't familiar with the situation in
Hope, but is familiar with northern Alaska where most of the
schools are community centers.
8:50:06 AM
CHAIR SEATON posed a scenario in which the school is operated by
a single site school district and the ADM falls below 10
students. In such a scenario no funding will come from the
state to that school district. Therefore, he questioned what
will allow that school building to remain open without any state
funding coming to the school district. He expressed the need to
consider the aforementioned since the legislation has been
presented as a way in which to keep schools open.
MR. POUND acknowledged that the [legislation could result in
school closures, but opined that it could also keep schools
open]. For example, Galena and Nenana are two of the largest
operating correspondence schools in the state.
8:51:17 AM
MR. POUND, returning to earlier questions and comments, said
that from the perspective of the individual the technology is
capable [of fulfilling the needs of this proposal]. With regard
to the broadband capability that the companies advertise, it may
be a challenge to prove that they have the high speed technology
necessary. He related that his first exposure to virtual
classrooms was at the University of Alaska Southeast back in the
1990s. He imagined that the technology has advanced much since
that time. Furthermore, students today are very sophisticated
with technology and computers have the potential to be an
education enabler.
8:53:18 AM
REPRESENTATIVE EDGMON directed attention to the language in
Section 2 of HB 197 and asked if the terms "part-time" and
"enrolled" are clearly defined. He asked if a student taking
one virtual course would result in the student being enrolled in
the virtual school.
REPRESENTATIVE KELLER said that he would make note of that
question to which he would respond later.
8:54:32 AM
REPRESENTATIVE BUCH asked if a demonstration of equipment that
might be used in the virtual classroom, such as smart boards,
would be brought before the committee.
8:55:35 AM
CHAIR SEATON related his understanding that HB 197 doesn't apply
to a correspondence school, per the language on page 1, line 6.
However, he questioned whether that's the case if a
correspondence school developed an "individualized learning
plan" for each student as outlined on page 2, lines 3-6.
Therefore, he surmised, "Wouldn't that fit the exact bill and
wouldn't correspondence schools for the funding difference from
.8 to this funding all just convert over to being virtual
charter schools?"
REPRESENTATIVE KELLER related his belief that there is the
possibility that a correspondence school could reorganize to
become a charter school, and therefore could obtain more
funding. However, he reminded the committee that a
correspondence school is defined in regulation and relates to
the minimum number of face-to-face hours with the teacher and
thus would impact the aforementioned possibility. He noted that
the aforementioned wasn't the intent of HB 197.
8:57:18 AM
REPRESENTATIVE KELLER pledged to work further on HB 197.
8:57:46 AM
EDDY JEANS, Director, School Finance, Department of Education
and Early Development (EED), explained that under the current
structure for funding schools in Alaska, there are brick-and-
mortar schools and correspondence programs. He related his
understanding that the sponsor is attempting to create a virtual
charter school with higher standards than those for the existing
correspondence programs. The current standards for
correspondence programs are established in regulation. The
higher standards for the proposed virtual charter school include
the individual learning plan and twice monthly contact with the
family. Furthermore, correspondence programs allow part-time
enrollment whereas the sponsor has said that the proposed
program would not include a part-time component. As mentioned
earlier, the sponsor and the commissioner of EED are to meet
tomorrow to flesh this idea out more. He pointed out that the
department submitted a fiscal note to the original legislation,
although he acknowledged that it's not appropriate for the
legislation. Therefore, there will be a revised fiscal note
once the details are determined.
8:59:49 AM
CHAIR SEATON requested that the department compare the two
existing types of funding structures for schools as well as the
proposed virtual charter school. He also requested review of
the implications and results of changing from one type of school
to another.
MR. JEANS agreed to do so.
9:01:05 AM
REPRESENTATIVE GARDNER noted that the committee packet includes
the 2006 Legislative Resolve No. 43, which directs school boards
and administrators to apply for grants available under AS
14.14.115. The aforementioned statute addresses educational
technology. She asked if districts have been applying for
grants under the aforementioned statute and whether there are
adequate funds available.
MR. JEANS said he would be happy to gather that information.
9:01:53 AM
CHAIR SEATON requested that Mr. Jeans also review for the
committee the issues of correspondence schools developed with a
statewide mission, which then drew membership from various
districts in the state by offering things such as free
computers. The aforementioned resulted in problems with ADM in
other districts. He recalled that changes were made that
required correspondence schools to draw upon the membership
within the district that they are located. He inquired as to
whether similar difficulties could result from HB 197.
9:03:12 AM
REPRESENTATIVE MUNOZ requested that Mr. Jeans provide
information to the committee regarding the charter school
funding disparity in which schools are counted with the largest
school in the district. She questioned whether HB 197 could
address the aforementioned problem.
MR. JEANS agreed to do so.
9:04:32 AM
CHAIR SEATON noted that this is the first discussion of HB 197,
and then opened public testimony.
9:04:48 AM
NARDA BUTLER, Chair, Academic Policy Committee, Frontier Charter
School, informed the committee that she has been involved with
both the charter school and correspondence school programs for
about nine years. She noted that she is also a certified
science teacher and teaches mid-distance education in which she
provides most of the curriculum and homework assignments on-
line. She further noted that her children are educated at home
and through part-time enrollment at a local brick-and-mortar
school as well as via some virtual instruction. Ms. Butler
applauded Representative Keller's efforts to provide greater
options and introduce technology at a greater level. However,
she expressed concern that existing charter school law doesn't
allow out-of-district students. Furthermore, Ms. Butler opined
that the proposed virtual school in HB 197 seems to fit under
the definitions of a correspondence school, which don't have
lower limits for face-to-face interaction with teachers. Ms.
Butler related her belief that the objective sought by the
sponsor could be accomplished by allowing districts to contract
with vendors for virtual classes. To be sure the standards are
met it can be made clear that districts allowing virtual classes
meet the state's standards. She also expressed concern that
this legislation may allow or perhaps encourage correspondence
schools to reopen as charter schools, and therefore wouldn't
fall within the 80 percent funding the state offers brick-and-
mortar schools. Districts, she opined, need to maintain local
control of their educational systems through the use of virtual
vendors. Furthermore, caution must be taken with regard to
opening unintentional doors while trying to achieve a good
objective.
9:07:57 AM
REPRESENTATIVE GARDNER surmised then that Ms. Butler is saying
that if correspondence schools are allowed to reorganize charter
schools and accept out-of-district students, then these newly
formed charter schools would simply access more funding.
MS. BUTLER replied yes. In further response to Representative
Gardner, Ms. Butler confirmed that vendors of [various
curriculums] are a whole industry. Any vendor, in- or out-of-
state, must meet state standards to ensure the district that the
students are striving to meet established standards. She
informed the committee that her daughter attends a school in
Washington, D.C., that enrolls students worldwide.
9:10:12 AM
CHAIR SEATON said that the committee would review whether the
legislation should be modified to address the fact that charter
schools can't accept out-of-district students.
9:10:45 AM
TIM SCOTT, Principal, Frontier Charter School, expressed concern
with the vagueness of some of the terms in the legislation. For
example, the terms "open enrollment" and "virtual" may need to
be clearly defined. He informed the committee that he was part
of a group that brought a lawsuit against the Alaska Board of
Education regarding the meaning of the term "correspondence."
He related that he spent about three years of his life trying to
help define the term "correspondence." In his opinion, this
proposed virtual charter school would be a correspondence
school. This legislation, he opined, would allow schools to
reorganize for funding purposes. Furthermore, the law already
allows for the existence of virtual schools within other
schools. He then directed attention to AS 14.14.110, which is
the cooperation between districts law. Mr. Scott said that he
would only be in favor of what HB 197 proposes if the
cooperation between districts law was invoked. Mr. Scott then
opined that there hasn't been any resolution to the situation in
which districts have raided other districts for students for
money.
9:13:55 AM
MR. SCOTT, in response to Representative Gardner, confirmed his
belief that there is an issue of districts raiding other
districts for money. One of the largest incentives to enroll
students into a statewide correspondence school is the ADM. He
suggested that such schools don't necessarily return all the
funds received back into the students. In fact, he charged that
two years ago $6.7 million was placed in the operating budget of
a local school district rather than returned to the
correspondence school students.
9:14:39 AM
REPRESENTATIVE KELLER said that there is another perspective.
There is a danger of creating a monopoly where the revenue
source is defined by the children in a district. If the
aforementioned is protected, there's less pressure on raising
the standards. Competition produces good results, as
illustrated across the state with the correspondence programs.
Representative Keller acknowledged the need to proceed slowly,
but maintained that being able to enroll statewide doesn't
necessarily make it bad.
9:15:48 AM
REPRESENTATIVE WILSON inquired as to how the terms "open
enrollment" and "virtual" could be defined now.
MR. SCOTT responded that the term "open enrollment" is currently
considered the timeframe in which students are enrolled
throughout the year, not necessarily boundaries. He reiterated
the need in HB 197 to clarify the term "open enrollment," which
he interpreted to mean that boundaries can be crossed to enroll
students into the proposed virtual charter school. With regard
to the definition of "virtual charter school," Mr. Scott pointed
out that although the state has defined "correspondence school,"
correspondence schools are hybrids. He opined that he would
include an on-line synchronous course as a virtual school as
that's typically to what the literature refers.
9:18:27 AM
CHAIR SEATON noted his agreement that the aforementioned terms
will definitely need to be defined.
9:19:16 AM
ALLISON POWELL, International Association for K-12 Online
Learning (iNACOL), informed the committee that iNACOL is a
nonprofit organization that supports virtual schools, both
supplemental and full-time online schools all over the world.
The goal of iNACOL is to ensure that every student has access to
the best education, regardless of the student's geographic
location, income, or background. In response to Chair Seaton,
Ms. Powell explained that the North American Council for Online
Learning (NACOL) is the same organization as iNACOL; NACOL
recently changed its name to reflect that the organization is
dealing with more international clients. Therefore, the iNACOL
paper in the committee packet is relevant to NACOL.
9:20:34 AM
REPRESENTATIVE WILSON inquired as to iNACOL's definition of
"virtual."
MS. POWELL answered that iNACOL has several definitions of
"virtual." Currently, there are various ways in which to setup
a virtual school. There are cyber charter schools, which are
online full-time programs in which the majority of the program
is performed online with both asynchronous and synchronous
[courses]. These cyber charter schools often require contact
with the teacher, which is accomplished through synchronous
schools. She further explained that it's a situation in which
students meet with the teacher online. During this meeting
online, the teacher and student can do practically everything
that's done in a typical face-to-face classroom. Currently,
there are 173 cyber charter schools in the nation. Ms. Powell
noted that there are other online programs that are supplemental
in which a student can attend a face-to-face school and take one
class online. The aforementioned can be done in both an
asynchronous and synchronous manner.
9:22:21 AM
REPRESENTATIVE GARDNER inquired as to the membership of iNACOL.
MS. POWELL related that iNACOL has about 2,500 members which
include virtual schools and programs to universities with
teacher training programs. The membership also includes many
nonprofit groups that are running virtual schools, researchers,
online teachers and administrators, and corporations that
provide the online content and technology. In further response
to Representative Gardner, Ms. Powell specified that
corporations are probably the smallest group of members. She
explained that the organization receives funds from its members
as well as from an annual conference. The organization receives
about one third of its funding from each of the following
sources: membership, the annual conference, and grants. She
noted that the organization intends to seek some federal grants
as well. In response to Chair Seaton, Ms. Powell informed the
committee of iNACOL's web site, www.inacol.org.
9:24:18 AM
REPRESENTATIVE GARDNER inquired about the board of iNACOL.
MS. POWELL explained that the board is comprised of an
individual who operates a state-led virtual school with
supplementals, another individual who operates a district-run
program, while another individual is a corporate member, a
researcher, a representative from a full-time corporate cyber-
charter school program, and a private consultant who works with
education technology throughout the country. In response to
Chair Seaton, Ms. Powell confirmed that iNACOL's membership and
board membership is listed on the organization's web site. In
further response to Representative Gardner, Ms. Powell specified
that the statewide virtual school, the supplemental school, and
the district run programs are publicly funded through the
government.
9:26:15 AM
KIKI ABRAHAMSON, President, Alaska Charter Schools Association;
Fireweed Academy, began by thanking the committee for providing
the opportunity for in-depth discussion about providing
alternatives for students in Alaska. She recalled that during
the education summit held November 13-14, 2008, it was brought
up multiple times that some of the most important things that
can be addressed in education in Alaska is creating innovation
and providing equity. Although she applauded the committee for
the work it's doing, she reminded the committee that there are
equity issues regarding funding for students in schools that
already exist.
9:27:31 AM
CHAIR SEATON, upon determining no one else wished to testify,
closed public testimony.
9:27:52 AM
REPRESENTATIVE WILSON asked if the funding for the virtual
students is the same as that for the brick-and-mortar students.
She noted that the funding for correspondence schools differs.
REPRESENTATIVE KELLER stated that the intent of HB 197 is to
allow for the interaction between districts to cover both
academics and supervision of the child. He noted that it allows
for contracting between school districts. Districts would be
encouraged to work together, but it has been left open and on
the table.
9:30:13 AM
CHAIR SEATON suggested that the committee should review AS
14.14.110, which already allows participation between districts,
and determine whether the existing statute is different than
what's proposed in HB 197.
9:30:41 AM
REPRESENTATIVE WILSON requested clarification regarding whether
part-time students will be allowed because although the sponsor
has said that there won't be part-time students, Section 2
addresses part-time students.
9:31:20 AM
CHAIR SEATON suggested then that when this legislation is heard
again, the sponsor can review what constitutes a full-time
student in this proposed open enrollment virtual setting and
whether there will be part-time students.
REPRESENTATIVE KELLER agreed to do so.
9:32:12 AM
REPRESENTATIVE EDGMON pointed out that there is over $7 billion
in federal stimulus funds for broadband and related
infrastructure services. Therefore, he suggested that it would
be enlightening to have some sort of discussion regarding the
broadband capabilities and how that ties in with educational
services in Alaska.
9:32:50 AM
CHAIR SEATON announced that today at noon, there will be various
presentations and demonstrations regarding various aspects of
technology in education in Alaska.
9:33:51 AM
REPRESENTATIVE GARDNER pointed out that students in Bethel could
all have laptops, but they cannot necessarily access the
Internet.
9:34:22 AM
REPRESENTATIVE KELLER related that the department will discuss
the stimulus funds as they relate to HB 197.
CHAIR SEATON announced that HB 197 would be held over.
HB 204-POSTSECONDARY MEDICAL EDUC. PROG.
9:34:41 AM
CHAIR SEATON announced that the final order of business would be
HOUSE BILL NO. 204, "An Act increasing the number of students
pursuing a medical education who are provided postsecondary
educational services and programs; and providing for an
effective date."
9:35:22 AM
REPRESENTATIVE WILSON moved to adopt CSHB 204, Version 26-
LS0778\R, Mischel, 3/31/09, as the working document.
CHAIR SEATON objected for discussion purposes.
9:35:51 AM
SAM DIX, Staff, Representative Nancy Dahlstrom, Alaska State
Legislature, explained that Version R continues to increase the
number of students pursuing a medical education to 24, although
the language now specifies "24" not "up to and including 24".
The legislation, Version R, now includes provisions that would
allow student loan forgiveness to Alaska residents who
participate in the Washington, Wyoming, Alaska, Montana, Idaho
Medical Education Program (WWAMI), receive a medical education
degree, and provide qualified practice in the state. The loan
forgiveness is detailed in Section 2 of Version R. Section 3 of
Version R states that those who received a degree from the WWAMI
program must be a full-time employee or practitioner for at
least six months in order to qualify for the loan forgiveness.
He highlighted that Section 3 specifies that "full-time
employee" doesn't include seasonal or temporary employment.
Section 4 defines a "qualified practice" to be a facility where
medical services are provided by a physician who received
medical education under the WWAMI program, where a significant
percentage of the patients of the practice are uninsured or
covered under Medicare or other medical assistance, and is
located in a medically underserved area of the state. Section 4
also specifies the definition of "rural". Section 5 relates
that Department of Health and Social Services (DHSS) may
establish standards for a qualified practice in regulation,
including the definition of "medically underserved area" and
"significant percent" in terms of patients that would qualify a
practice for loan forgiveness. Section 6 is the effective date
of July 1, 2010.
9:40:37 AM
REPRESENTATIVE GARDNER directed attention to Section 3, which
specifies that in order to qualify for [loan] forgiveness, a
person must be a full-time employee or practitioner for a period
of at least six months. She asked, "Does it mean they have to
be a doctor for six months before the clock starts ticking on
their employment under which loans will be forgiven?"
MR. DIX answered that Section 3 means that they must be
considered a full-time employee within the first year after
graduating from the WWAMI program.
REPRESENTATIVE GARDNER surmised then an individual can't
graduate from the WWAMI program, take a job elsewhere for a few
years, and then return to Alaska to work and obtain loan
forgiveness.
MR. DIX stated his agreement.
9:42:13 AM
CHAIR SEATON asked then whether a WWAMI graduate seeking loan
forgiveness would have to return directly to Alaska or could
they return to Alaska with an outstanding WWAMI loan.
MR. DIX clarified that if a WWAMI graduate practices or takes up
employment outside of the medical practice, they will be
considered under the five years employment, 20 percent loan
forgiveness program.
9:43:05 AM
CHAIR SEATON related his understanding that Section 3 means that
an individual who takes a job for one month can't receive loan
forgiveness. However, the language doesn't specify that a WWAMI
graduate who takes a job elsewhere and then returns to Alaska
and is employed for six months can't receive loan forgiveness.
He expressed the need to clarify this point.
MR. DIX deferred to departmental representatives.
9:44:54 AM
ALICE RARIG, Planner IV, Department of Health and Social
Services, related her belief that Section 3 doesn't seem to
imply that service couldn't be interrupted. Therefore, she
suggested that the sponsor may need to provide clarification on
this point. She opined that the clock for loan forgiveness
would start once the individual begins full-time employment in a
qualified practice and after six months could apply for
forgiveness.
9:45:59 AM
REPRESENTATIVE NANCY DAHLSTROM, Alaska State Legislature,
speaking as the sponsor of HB 204, related that the intent with
HB 204 is to provide more efficient and better quality medical
care for all Alaskans. She said she shared Ms. Rarig's
understanding that there wouldn't be a break in the service.
She offered to request an opinion from Legal and Research
Services.
9:47:01 AM
CHAIR SEATON opined that the language seems straight forward in
that this would require employment six months in order to
qualify for loan forgiveness. However, Section 3 doesn't
stipulate that a WWAMI graduate couldn't take a job in another
state prior to working six months in Alaska and applying for
loan forgiveness or return to Alaska and have a six-month delay
prior to taking a job. The language simply says that a [WWAMI
graduate] would have to be employed in Alaska for at least six
months.
9:47:49 AM
REPRESENTATIVE GARDNER said that she has received adequate
clarification on the language and pointed out that the only new
language in Section 3 is the addition of "or practitioner".
9:48:14 AM
REPRESENTATIVE EDGMON asked if the language "or for services
provided in a qualified practice in" and "or practice" on page
2, lines 13-16, is defined elsewhere or is supportive of a full-
time employee.
CHAIR SEATON pointed out that page 3, subsection (i) provides
the definition of "qualified practice".
9:49:28 AM
REPRESENTATIVE EDGMON then asked if there is a difference
between a medically underserved area and a rural area.
MR. DIX answered that DHSS will define those terms.
MR. RARIG pointed out that the term "rural" is defined in the
legislation on page 3, lines 11-13. The term "medically
underserved area" is federal language with a specific meeting.
However, "medically underserved area" has yet to be defined in
state statute. She noted that DHSS has developed criteria for
the Denali Commission funding priority systems and proposed an
Alaska-based definition of medically underserved area. The
aforementioned definition has been submitted to the U.S.
Department of Health and Human Services. She said that DHSS has
no qualms with developing a definition for the term for this
program. There are non rural areas that may be defined as
medically underserved.
9:52:02 AM
CHAIR SEATON posed a scenario in which a portion of Anchorage
has a lot of people who qualify for Medicare, but there aren't a
lot of physicians who want to take Medicare patients. In such a
situation, Anchorage could be defined as a medically underserved
area because of the definition of "uninsured." He asked if the
aforementioned would result in those in Anchorage receiving the
same benefit as [those in rural Alaska], and thereby take away
the incentive of the higher reimbursement rate for rural Alaska.
Furthermore, does such a situation create a conundrum in which
the higher reimbursement rate being given in rural Alaska to
stimulate people to go to rural Alaska is given to those in an
area with a significant number of Medicare patients.
MS. RARIG related her understanding that the regulations for the
medically underserved area would only apply to the census
designated level and Anchorage would be considered as a whole.
An area that would likely fall under the definition of a
medically underserved area would be Ketchikan, where there is
difficulty for certain portions of the population gaining access
to services, although the area wouldn't qualify under the rural
definition due to the population being over 7,500. Ms. Rarig
said that most qualifying practices would fall under the first
designation in which the practice can demonstrate that the
practice serves a significant portion of individuals who receive
Medicare or Medicaid, or are uninsured.
9:54:31 AM
CHAIR SEATON surmised that under Section 4(i)(1)(A) Anchorage
would qualify for the higher reimbursement if the [WWAMI
graduate joins] a practice for which a significant portion of
the patients are Medicare patients. He asked if that would be a
correct assumption.
MS. RARIG answered that she believes that would be a correct
assumption.
9:55:33 AM
CHAIR SEATON expressed concern with having a higher
reimbursement rate for those living in the lowest cost of living
areas in the state while possibly taking away the rural
incentive.
MS. RARIG stated her understanding that there are a number of
practices in Anchorage and other urban areas that are taking a
disproportionate number of [Medicare, Medicaid, uninsured]
patients. These practices feel that they're in an unfair
situation in terms of reimbursement and threaten to be
overwhelmed when other practices won't accept Medicare patients.
She opined that this legislation is meant to provide a
recruitment incentive for those practices to be able to hire
more physicians and perhaps create a more balanced competition
[in the urban areas].
REPRESENTATIVE DAHLSTROM stated that the intent is not to
identify any particular population in the state, but rather to
provide better medical service for all Alaskans. Furthermore,
many rural residents come to Anchorage for medical services.
She clarified that this legislation wouldn't qualify the
Anchorage area as a whole, only those practices that treat the
underserved populations.
9:58:01 AM
REPRESENTATIVE WILSON acknowledged the sponsor's view, and
questioned whether the intent is to include Anchorage.
REPRESENTATIVE DAHLSTROM responded that the intent is to include
Anchorage as well as the entire state.
9:59:06 AM
REPRESENTATIVE WILSON opined then that more of [the WWAMI
graduates] will return to Anchorage to receive loan forgiveness.
REPRESENTATIVE DAHLSTROM offered that there are those who will
consciously choose to teach in rural settings. She said that
she didn't believe all [WWAMI graduates] will return to
Anchorage.
10:00:45 AM
CHAIR SEATON directed attention to the language on page 2, line
8, which refers to "employment in the state in a medical
residency program". The only medical residency program is
offered in Anchorage. If there are a number of Medicare and
uninsured patients served at the hospital [providing a medical
residency program], would the language mean that any [WWAMI
student] at such an institution would be reimbursed at the high
rate, as if they were serving in rural Alaska.
MR. DIX said that the medical residency program would have to be
considered by DHSS as serving a significant percentage of
Medicare and uninsured patients.
10:02:05 AM
CHAIR SEATON expressed the need to answer the aforementioned and
how it works into this legislation, although he said he wouldn't
hold the legislation based on that matter. If the hospital at
which a physician is serving has a high incidence of Medicare
and/or uninsured patients, then this legislation seems to open
the possibility of everyone in their residency program being
reimbursed as if they're serving in rural Alaska. He opined
that that's not the intent, and therefore he suggested that the
sponsor work on that matter.
10:03:00 AM
REPRESENTATIVE BUCH expressed concern with the [lack of a]
definition for the terms "medically underserved area" and
"significant percentage" and the lack of a fiscal note.
10:03:44 AM
CHAIR SEATON stated that HB 204 would be held over. [The motion
to adopt CSHB 204, Version 26-LS0778\R, Mischel, 3/31/09, was
left pending per Chair Seaton's objection.]
10:04:21 AM
ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business before the committee, the House
Education Standing Committee meeting was adjourned at 10:04 a.m.
| Document Name | Date/Time | Subjects |
|---|---|---|
| Carol J. Schaeffer and Lou Pondolfino.pdf |
HEDC 4/1/2009 8:00:00 AM |
|
| cshb204 WORKDRAFT.pdf |
HEDC 4/1/2009 8:00:00 AM HEDC 4/3/2009 8:00:00 AM |
HB 204 |
| HB 204 information.pdf |
HEDC 3/30/2009 8:00:00 AM HEDC 4/1/2009 8:00:00 AM HEDC 4/3/2009 8:00:00 AM |
HB 204 |
| HB 197.pdf |
HEDC 4/1/2009 8:00:00 AM |
HB 197 |
| Linda Lee Gillam Black.pdf |
HEDC 4/1/2009 8:00:00 AM |