Legislature(2021 - 2022)BARNES 124
05/16/2022 08:00 AM House COMMUNITY & REGIONAL AFFAIRS
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| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| SB136 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| += | SB 136 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | TELECONFERENCED |
ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE
HOUSE COMMUNITY AND REGIONAL AFFAIRS STANDING COMMITTEE
May 16, 2022
1:55 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Sara Hannan, Co-Chair
Representative Calvin Schrage, Co-Chair
Representative Josiah Patkotak, Vice Chair
Representative Harriet Drummond
Representative Mike Prax
Representative Ken McCarty
Representative Kevin McCabe
MEMBERS ABSENT
All members present
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
CS FOR SENATE BILL NO. 136(CRA)
"An Act relating to firearms and other weapons restrictions."
- MOVED CSSB 136(CRA) OUT OF COMMITTEE
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION
BILL: SB 136
SHORT TITLE: LIMITATIONS ON FIREARMS RESTRICTIONS
SPONSOR(s): SENATOR(s) MYERS
05/05/21 (S) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
05/05/21 (S) CRA, STA
05/11/21 (S) CRA AT 3:30 PM BELTZ 105 (TSBldg)
05/11/21 (S) -- MEETING CANCELED --
05/13/21 (S) CRA AT 3:30 PM BELTZ 105 (TSBldg)
05/13/21 (S) Heard & Held
05/13/21 (S) MINUTE(CRA)
05/18/21 (S) CRA AT 3:30 PM BELTZ 105 (TSBldg)
05/18/21 (S) Moved CSSB 136(CRA) Out of Committee
05/18/21 (S) MINUTE(CRA)
05/19/21 (S) CRA RPT CS 2DP 1DNP SAME TITLE
05/19/21 (S) DP: HUGHES, MYERS
05/19/21 (S) DNP: GRAY-JACKSON
02/01/22 (S) STA AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH 205
02/01/22 (S) Heard & Held
02/01/22 (S) MINUTE(STA)
02/15/22 (S) STA AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH 205
02/15/22 (S) Heard & Held
02/15/22 (S) MINUTE(STA)
03/03/22 (S) STA AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH 205
03/03/22 (S) Moved CSSB 136(CRA) Out of Committee
03/03/22 (S) MINUTE(STA)
03/04/22 (S) STA RPT CS(CRA) 3DP 2NR SAME TITLE
03/04/22 (S) DP: SHOWER, COSTELLO, HOLLAND
03/04/22 (S) NR: REINBOLD, KAWASAKI
03/16/22 (S) TRANSMITTED TO (H)
03/16/22 (S) VERSION: CSSB 136(CRA)
03/18/22 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
03/18/22 (H) CRA, STA
04/28/22 (H) CRA AT 8:00 AM BARNES 124
04/28/22 (H) Heard & Held
04/28/22 (H) MINUTE(CRA)
05/16/22 (H) CRA AT 8:00 AM BARNES 124
WITNESS REGISTER
ANN GIFFORD, Representing Self
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to SB 136.
PATTY OWEN, Representing Self
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to SB 136.
LAURA FLEMING, Representing Self
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to SB 136.
LUANN MCVEY, Representing Self
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to SB 136.
AOIBHEANN CLINE, State Director
National Rifle Association
Fairfax, Virginia
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified during the hearing of SB 136.
MARIANN CLOUGH, representing self
Auke Bay, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to SB 136.
JANICE CAULFIELD, Representing Self
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to SB 136.
ROCHELLE PARKER, Representing Self
Anchorage, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to SB 136.
JOY LYON, Representing Self
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to SB 136.
EMILY KANE, Representing Self
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to SB 136.
JOHN SONIN, Representing Self
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to SB 136.
SUE LIBENSON, Representing Self
Haines, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to SB 136.
LEJLA BERBEROVIC, Representing Self
Anchorage, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to SB 136.
SHAWN WILLIAMS, Representing Self
Anchorage, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SB 136.
SALLY DUNCAN, Representing Self
Two Rivers, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SB 136.
THERESA GROVES, Representing Self
Fairbanks, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SB 136.
JAMES SQUYRES, Representing Self
Deltana, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SB 136.
GARY TYNDALL, Representing Self
North Pole, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SB 136.
ARTHUR DUNCAN, Representing Self
Three Rivers, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SB 136.
KELLY HOWELL, Legislative Liaison
Department of Public Safety
Anchorage, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Answered questions during the hearing on SB
136.
MICHAELLA ANDERSON, Staff
Senator Robert Myers
Alaska State Legislature
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Answered questions during the hearing on
CSSB 136 (CRA) on behalf of Senator Myers, prime sponsor.
ANDY MILLER, Assistant Attorney General
Department of Law
Anchorage, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Answered questions during the hearing on
CSSB 136 (CRA).
ACTION NARRATIVE
1:55:22 PM
CO-CHAIR CALVIN SCHRAGE called the House Community and Regional
Affairs Standing Committee meeting to order at 1:55 p.m.
Representatives McCarty, Patkotak, McCabe, Prax, Drummond,
Hannan, and Schrage were present at the call to order.
SB 136-LIMITATIONS ON FIREARMS RESTRICTIONS
1:56:02 PM
CO-CHAIR SCHRAGE announced that the only order of business would
be CS FOR SENATE BILL NO. 136(CRA), "An Act relating to firearms
and other weapons restrictions."
1:56:10 PM
CO-CHAIR SCHRAGE opened public testimony on CSSB 136 (CRA).
1:56:38 PM
ANN GIFFORD, Representing Self, stated that she is a retired
lawyer testifying against the passage of SB 136. She cautioned
that passing the bill would have the potential to hamper the
ability of local officials to maintain public safety because
they may need to prevent people from carrying firearms in
sensitive areas after the occurrence of a natural disaster. She
stated that certain temporary restrictions on the Second
Amendment had been recognized in the past by the courts.
1:58:49 PM
PATTY OWEN, Representing Self, testified in opposition to SB
136. She opined that during a declared disaster in Alaska, the
primary focus should be on protecting public safety and full-
scale emergency response should take precedence.
1:59:58 PM
REPRESENTATIVE MCCABE asked Ms. Owen whether she owns any guns.
MS. OWEN replied she does not.
2:00:11 PM
LAURA FLEMING, Representing Self, testified in opposition to SB
136. She expressed her appreciation, as a resident of Alaska,
to freely own and safely use firearms. She said the bill seems
aimed at solving a problem that does not exist in the state and
seemed to erode executive authority.
2:01:54 PM
REPRESENTATIVE MCCABE asked Ms. Fleming whether she uses her
guns for hunting.
MS. FLEMING replied that her husband [uses guns for hunting] and
she goes to the range to practice.
2:02:25 PM
LUANN MCVEY, Representing Self, testified in opposition to SB
136. She said that she does not support an "unnecessary" and
"potentially harmful" bill to pass out of committee.
2:04:37 PM
REPRESENTATIVE MCCABE asked Ms. McVey whether she or her family
owns guns and, if so, for what use.
MS. MCVEY replied there are two hunting rifles in the house that
her husband uses.
2:05:26 PM
The committee took an at-ease from 2:05 p.m. to 2:06 p.m.
2:06:11 PM
AOIBHEANN CLINE, State Director, National Rifle Association,
testified that SB 136 does not prevent the closure [of
businesses] and firearm-related businesses cannot be singled
out. At the core of the Second Amendment, she said, is the
right to self-defense, the importance of which is elevated in
times of chaos, uncertainty, and emergency. She opined that it
is crucial to be able to access firearms, ammunition, and
shooting ranges.
2:07:40 PM
MARIANN CLOUGH, representing self, testified in opposition to SB
136, arguing that the bill sets up individuals or interest
groups to act as the legal enforcers of state law. She said the
guns in her family's possession are used for hunting, outdoor
recreation, and protection.
2:09:25 PM
JANICE CAULFIELD, Representing Self, Testified in opposition to
SB 136. She stated that she has been an Alaska resident 43
years and her family owns guns for hunting and keeps them stored
and locked. She said leaders are given special powers during
disasters because they must consider the circumstances and take
decisive action to protect citizens. She opined that the law
would not make Alaska safer during a disaster, adding that she
did not see a problem that needed to be fixed.
2:12:27 PM
ROCHELLE PARKER, Representing Self, stated that she is not a gun
owner but a mother of three, who is testifying opposition to SB
136. She said that if Alaska enters a state of emergency, the
focus should be on creating and enforcing policies that make
citizens safer instead of blindly promoting more access to
firearms.
2:13:56 PM
JOY LYON, Representing Self, testified in opposition to SB 136.
During a disaster, she said, local control should be given to
people on the ground that are able to make decisions without
fear of civil litigation later on, which could also be crippling
for smaller communities.
2:16:13 PM
REPRESENTATIVE MCCABE thanked Ms. Lyon for taking the time to go
to Front Site [firearms training] for instruction.
2:17:19 PM
EMILY KANE, Representing Self, Testified in opposition to SB 136
and stated she is a family doctor, a mother, and does not own a
gun. She urged the committee to "shut down" SB 136. She said
allowing for easier access to firearms cannot render Alaska
safer during a time of disaster or emergency, which is by nature
unpredictable. Untrained gunmen should not have free reign
during a time when civic management by government officials
should be of utmost importance, she opined.
2:19:07 PM
JOHN SONIN, Representing Self, testified in opposition to SB
136. He stated that the bill has no place at the end of the
session and legislators' minds should be on supporting Alaska,
not "dismembering."
2:21:53 PM
SUE LIBENSON, Representing Self, testified in opposition to SB
136 and stated that "spending time on this is absurd,"
especially in an era with so much gun violence. It is a red
flag to rally for some unknown cause, she said.
2:24:40 PM
REPRESENTATIVE MCCABE asked Ms. Libenson whether there are gun
stores in Haines, Alaska, and whether there are bear population
problems.
MS. LIBENSON responded yes to both questions.
2:25:45 PM
The committee took an at-ease from 2:25 p.m. to 2:26 p.m.
2:26:43 PM
LEJLA BERBEROVIC, Representing Self, testified in opposition to
SB 136 and stated that she does not see a reason for the bill.
Leadership and government, she explained, does a "pretty good
job taking care of us." She shared her opinion that more
restrictions were unneeded.
2:28:14 PM
REPRESENTATIVE MCCARTY asked Ms. Berberovic whether she was part
of any disaster team for Anchorage or the state.
MS. BERBEROVIC replied that after "the earthquake," she signed
up for a disaster team but had not been called out to the field.
2:29:06 PM
SHAWN WILLIAMS, Representing Self, testified in support of SB
136. He shared that during the COVID-19 pandemic, all stores
were required to shut down, adding that he wished to make sure
in times of crisis that there is access to the kinds of
protections he considered important. He expressed strong
support for SB 136.
2:30:58 PM
SALLY DUNCAN, Representing Self, Testified in support of SB 136.
She expressed her appreciation for the bill and those who
brought it together. Closing firearm stores, she said, was poor
judgement by the government and this should not be able to
happen again. Additionally, she stressed the importance of the
Second Amendment being protected.
2:32:06 PM
THERESA GROVES, Representing Self, testified in support of SB
136 and encouraged the committee to support it as well. She
stated that an increase in government control is not needed; gun
stores are where honest people go and there are already
protocols in place.
2:33:24 PM
JAMES SQUYRES, Representing Self, offered his support for SB 136
and stated that firearms are a way of life in rural Deltana,
Alaska. He quoted Article 1, Section 19, of the Alaska
Constitution, "the right of the people to keep and bear arms
shall not be infringed", and specified how clear the language
is. He urged the committee to move the bill as soon as
possible.
2:35:06 PM
REPRESENTATIVE MCCABE asked Mr. Squyres about buying ammunition
("ammo") in the location where he lives.
MR. SQUYRES replied that he is about 40 miles from the nearest
town where ammo can be purchased, which is Delta Junction,
Alaska.
2:36:03 PM
GARY TYNDALL, Representing Self, testified in support of SB 136
and stated that the bill reinforces constitutional rights to
keep and bear arms, as well as citizens' responsibility.
2:37:04 PM
ARTHUR DUNCAN, Representing Self, testified in support of SB
136. He said the bill would reinforce the language of the
Constitution of the United States and show that citizens believe
in it and support it.
2:38:06 PM
CO-CHAIR SCHRAGE, after ascertaining there was no one else who
wished to testify, closed public testimony on SB 136.
2:38:27 PM
CO-CHAIR SCHRAGE announced that the committee would entertain
amendments.
2:38:40 PM
CO-CHAIR HANNAN moved to adopt Amendment 1 to CSSB 136(CRA),
labeled 32-LS0856\B.5 Radford, 5/16/22, which read:
Page 1, line 14, following "use;":
Insert "or"
Page 2, line 4:
Delete ";"
Insert "."
Page 2, lines 5 - 8:
Delete all material.
2:38:42 PM
REPRESENTATIVE MCCABE objected.
2:38:54 PM
The committee took an at-ease from 2:38 p.m. to 2:39 p.m.
2:39:47 PM
CO-CHAIR HANNAN, in response to Co-Chair Schrage, restated the
motion to adopt Amendment 1.
CO-CHAIR SCHRAGE noted that an objection had been stated by
Representative McCabe.
CO-CHAIR HANNAN drew attention to page 2, lines 5-8, and
presumed that most people know that in Alaska, no one is
required to have a concealed weapons permit. Her concern, she
said, is setting up the opportunity to sue if anything should
happen. She said when she met with the National Rifle
Association (NRA), its representatives explained that this is a
template bill that the NRA is trying to push in all 50 states.
She opined that the bill would not work well in Alaska.
2:42:02 PM
REPRESENTATIVE MCCABE spoke to his objection. He explained that
the concealed carry permit (CCP) is not required in Alaska;
however, a person can still get the CCP, but it takes some
instruction. One can spend the time, money, and effort to get
the CCP and then be denied. He said CSSB 136(CRA) is designed
around that.
CO-CHAIR HANNAN observed that the bill provides that if the
state does not accept an application for a concealed weapons
permit during an emergency declaration, then the applicant can
sue. She deemed this inappropriate.
REPRESENTATIVE MCCABE surmised that the "suing portion" is to
get the situation in front of the judge.
CO-CHAIR HANNAN highlighted the language on page 2, line 7,
"refusing to accept an application to carry a concealed
handgun". She considered a scenario in which agencies were not
functioning during a period of emergency response and
characterized the ability to sue someone for refusing to accept
a concealed carry application as a "frivolous red herring that
doesn't match with Alaska's law or its access to guns."
2:46:00 PM
REPRESENTATIVE MCCARTY offered a personal experience when he
purchased a gun and the system crashed during this purchase. He
explained that he paid for the gun, but the store had to hold
the gun until the system was restored, which took a week.
Another event that can delay the application process, he said,
is a disaster of some sort. He stated that he "does not see a
problem here or in the protocol."
2:47:15 PM
CO-CHAIR SCHRAGE said a big part of his concern is the
probability of lawsuits.
2:48:28 PM
REPRESENTATIVE PATKOTAK shared his belief that there is a
reciprocity clause between Alaska and some states. He asked
whether the staff member from the NRA who testified earlier was
still online to speak to some of these issues.
2:49:52 PM
MS. KLINE responded in reference to the concealed carry
reciprocity and explained that there are 38 states that
recognize Alaska's CCP. While one does not need a permit in the
state of Alaska, 38 states recognize when an individual goes
above and beyond and obtains his/her concealed carry permit, she
said.
REPRESENTATIVE PATKOTAK suspected that of those 38 states, there
are probably some that require [a concealed carry permit],
unlike Alaska. As for processing background checks, he asked
about the process for approving CCPs and questioned the
interface with state agencies.
MS. KLINE responded that she was not entirely clear on the
question, but what was seen across the country during the COVID-
19 pandemic and other examples provided in written testimony is
that [the pandemic] exposed dangers of anti-firearms coming
after Second Amendment rights and using the power of an
emergency declaration to restrict those Second Amendment rights.
She explained that there have been comments that people do not
need guns during a pandemic or emergency situation; however, she
argued the opposite, as the right to self-defense is never more
important than in times of chaos and uncertainty.
2:52:20 PM
CO-CHAIR SCHRAGE asked Ms. Kline whether she could address who
conducts background checks for a CCP.
MS. KLINE replied she had not looked into the specifics for the
state of Alaska, but in order to purchase a firearm, one must go
through the universal background check.
2:52:48 PM
REPRESENTATIVE MCCABE commented that a local background check
and fingerprints from the Department of Public Safety (DPS) is
needed for the CCP.
2:53:26 PM
REPRESENTATIVE DRUMMOND shared a disclaimer that there are guns
in her household, and she has had training, but has never
purchased a gun over the counter. She recalled Representative
McCarty's story about the "system being down," and asked which
system he was referring to.
2:54:25 PM
REPRESENTATIVE MCCARTY replied that the system is the National
Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS).
REPRESENTATIVE DRUMMOND asked whether she would have to go
through NICS if she purchased a gun through a friend.
2:55:45 PM
REPRESENTATIVE PATKOTAK asked whether one would get streamlined
through the NICS process if they had a CCP.
2:56:24 PM
REPRESENTATIVE MCCABE, directing his response to Representative
Drummond, explained that if she bought a gun from another person
who does not have a federal firearms license (FFL), then she
would not have to go through any system.
2:58:32 PM
REPRESENTATIVE DRUMMOND requested further explanation of the
acronyms used today.
2:59:00 PM
REPRESENTATIVE PRAX sought to clarify whether the specific topic
of the proposed amendment dealt with the CCP, as opposed to
buying a firearm.
2:59:16 PM
REPRESENTATIVE HANNAN confirmed that is correct.
REPRESENTATIVE PRAX said his concern is that "some government
agency" would refuse to process the permit, as opposed to being
unable to process it.
2:59:41 PM
REPRESENTATIVE SCHRAGE reiterated his earlier concern about
backlogs for background checks and whether the bill could expose
the state to lawsuits by instituting a policy of not processing
CCPs during a public health emergency. He asked whether DPS had
a formal position on the bill.
3:00:51 PM
KELLY HOWELL, Legislative Liaison, Department of Public Safety,
clarified that the Department of Public Safety (DPS) does
administer the CCP program throughout the state of Alaska but
does not have an official position on this piece of legislation.
She said if the bill were to pass, DPS would comply with any
requirements.
3:02:03 PM
REPRESENTATIVE MCCARTY recalled that during the COVID-19
pandemic, the background check process was greatly challenged.
For example, nurses were unable to get work because of being
unable to get a background check. He offered his understanding
that there is a difference between the background check for the
Department of Health and Social Services (DHSS) and for that of
DPS.
MS. HOWELL responded that DPS processes both state and national
criminal history background checks, as well as background checks
for licensing purposes. She noted there are also some other
agency background checks that flow through DPS.
REPRESENTATIVE MCCARTY said his clear understanding is that
there are additional requirements that must go through DHSS for
individuals such as nurses. He asked whether someone trying to
get a firearm could do it more expeditiously than someone trying
to get a job.
MS. HOWELL said she could not answer one way or another.
3:05:31 PM
CO-CHAIR SCHRAGE asked Ms. Howell to clarify whether all forms
of background checks were significantly delayed due to the
pandemic; additionally, whether DPS delayed processing of
concealed handgun permits to help provide resources towards
catching up on the backload of background checks.
MS. HOWELL confirmed that there was a delay in processing
background checks as a result of individuals not at the work
site or out on COVID leave. She stated that she did not know
the timeframe of whether it delayed the background checks
required for a concealed handgun permit; however, she could get
the statistics to the committee at a later date.
3:07:02 PM
REPRESENTATIVE PATKOTAK asked under what circumstances DPS would
refuse to accept an application when the applicant met all
requirements under Alaska Statutes.
MS. HOWELL responded that DPS would not refuse to accept an
application but would process it to determine the person's
eligibility for the concealed handgun permit.
REPRESENTATIVE PATKOTAK offered his understanding that paragraph
(6), [beginning on page 2, line 7 of CSSB 136(CRA)], spoke to
when an individual is following the law and legally carrying a
concealed weapon (CCW) but the municipality refused to accept
the application.
3:09:38 PM
REPRESENTATIVE MCCABE pointed out that the language on page 2,
line 5 of the bill said nothing about delayed background checks.
He expressed his opposition to Amendment 1.
3:10:24 PM
CO-CHAIR HANNAN referred to page 2, line 5, and asked Ms. Howell
under what circumstances, conditions, or statutes a CCP in
Alaska can be revoked.
MS. HOWELL answered that one needs to be eligible under federal
law to possess a firearm, and if there were any disqualifying
conditions once the permit was acquired, it could then be
revoked, for example, if one was convicted of a felony.
3:11:33 PM
REPRESENTATIVE MCCABE maintained his objection.
3:11:38 PM
A roll call vote was taken. Representatives Drummond and Hannan
voted in favor of Amendment 1 to CSSB 136(CRA). Representatives
Patkotak, Prax, McCarty, McCabe, and Schrage voted against it.
Therefore, Amendment 1 failed by a vote of 2-5.
3:12:18 PM
CO-CHAIR HANNAN moved to adopt Amendment 2 to CSSB 136(CRA),
labeled 32-LS0856\B.4, Radford, 5/15/22, which read:
Page 2, line 11, following "state":
Insert "or federal"
3:12:22 PM
REPRESENTATIVE DRUMMOND objected.
REPRESENTATIVE MCCABE objected.
CO-CHAIR HANNAN spoke to Amendment 2. She said inserting
"federal" would address the issue of one having a federal
restriction, which is not currently addressed in the bill.
3:13:23 PM
REPRESENTATIVE MCCABE stated his understanding that state laws
probably include felonies and federal laws. He requested
further explanation on Amendment 2.
3:14:45 PM
MICHAELLA ANDERSON, Staff, Senator Robert Myers, Alaska State
Legislature, on behalf of Senator Myers, prime sponsor, shared
her understanding that the state takes federal law into
consideration. She noted that a similar amendment was
considered in the Senate; however, it was not offered after much
discussion because it would override any legislation that has
been passed by the legislature in prior years.
3:15:59 PM
CO-CHAIR SCHRAGE asked whether there are federal laws that would
prohibit someone from owning a firearm that are not in state
law.
3:16:27 PM
MS. HOWELL directed the question to the Department of Law (DOL).
She explained that if someone were federally prohibited, they
would be prohibited by state as well.
3:17:11 PM
REPRESENTATIVE MCCARTY highlighted the sovereignty of the state
and expressed his opposition to Amendment 2.
3:18:07 PM
REPRESENTATIVE MCCABE shared his understanding that the state
statutes requested the issuance of a CCW. He added that the
state, during background checks, would check to see whether one
had a misdemeanor or a felony from another state. He observed
that the federal government seemed to have left the authority in
the state's hands, and he affirmed that he is not in support of
Amendment 2.
3:19:07 PM
CO-CHAIR SCHRAGE noted Representative Drummond, who had objected
to Amendment 2, was not in the room at present.
3:19:18 PM
REPRESENTATIVE MCCABE restated his previous objection.
3:19:25 PM
A roll call vote was taken. Representative Hannan voted in
favor of Amendment 2 to CSSB 136(CRA). Representatives
Patkotak, Prax, McCarty, and McCabe voted against it.
Therefore, Amendment 2 failed by a vote of 1-5.
3:20:09 PM
CO-CHAIR HANNAN moved to adopt Amendment 3 to CSSB 136(CRA),
labeled 32-LS0856\B.3, Radford, 5/15/22, which read:
Page 2, following line 8:
Insert a new subsection to read:
"(b) The provisions of (a) of this section do
not supersede an order, proclamation, regulation,
ordinance, or policy that is in effect in the state or
a municipality when a disaster emergency is declared."
Reletter the following subsections accordingly.
Page 2, line 20:
Delete "(c)"
Insert "(d)"
3:20:13 PM
CO-CHAIR SCHRAGE objected for the purpose of discussion.
3:20:21 PM
The committee took an at-ease from 3:20 p.m. to 3:24 p.m.
3:24:48 PM
CO-CHAIR HANNAN spoke to Amendment 3. She explained that the
new subsection would clarify that if a municipality had
ordinances in place about gun use before a disaster, then the
ordinances would remain in place.
3:25:58 PM
REPRESENTATIVE MCCARTY observed that Amendment 3 appeared to be
"doing a paradoxical reversal" of the intent of the bill.
REPRESENTATIVE HANNAN highlighted line 4 of Amendment 3, which
would affirm that a local ordinance about gun use would remain
even during an emergency.
REPRESENTATIVE MCCARTY considered a conceptual amendment that
would insert "preexisting orders" to clarify that an order
cannot be made in the midst of a disaster.
CO-CHAIR HANNAN indicated that the existing language "in effect"
already made that clear.
3:28:02 PM
REPRESENTATIVE MCCABE asked whether a person could violate a
city ordinance for [using a firearm as] self-protection from a
bear.
CO-CHAIR HANNAN confirmed that shooting off the roadway in
Juneau is allowed unless for duck hunting in the Mendenhall
Wetlands State Game Refuge.
REPRESENTATIVE MCCABE highlighted Section 1 of the bill, which
provides that an order, proclamation, regulation, ordinance, or
policy may not be issued or adopted. He opined that the
proposed amendment did not fit with the bill, and, for that
reason, he would not support it.
3:30:43 PM
REPRESENTATIVE MCCARTY focused on the language on line 3 of the
proposed amendment and asked whether it refers to past
proclamations and cannot be changed.
3:32:19 PM
REPRESENTATIVE PRAX observed that the bill would not give a
municipality the power to impose a prohibition against shooting
firearms even if there were an emergency.
3:33:37 PM
REPRESENTATIVE MCCARTY stated that rules change; however, he is
not in support of Amendment 3.
3:34:21 PM
A roll call vote was taken. Representatives Hannan and Drummond
voted in favor of Amendment 3 to CSSB 136(CRA). Representatives
McCabe, Patkotak, Prax, McCarty, and Schrage voted against it.
Therefore, Amendment 3 failed by a vote of 2-5.
3:35:20 PM
CO-CHAIR HANNAN moved to adopt Amendment 4 to CSSB 136(CRA),
labeled 32-LS0856\B.2, Radford, 5/15/22, which read:
Page 1, line 5, following "AS 26.23.020,":
Insert "unless necessary to maintain public
order,"
3:35:25 PM
REPRESENTATIVE MCCABE objected.
CO-CHAIR HANNAN considered the example of a curfew instituted
during a disaster. She stressed the importance of local
governments having the ability to respond to disasters and
maintain public order.
3:36:21 PM
REPRESENTATIVE MCCABE stated that the language would negate what
the bill is intended to accomplish, which is to allow citizens
to maintain the rights to protect themselves. Police officers,
he said, may not be able to help every person that needs it
during a disaster, adding that "armed society is a polite
society." He affirmed his opposition to Amendment 4.
3:37:44 PM
A roll call vote was taken. Representatives Drummond and Hannan
voted in favor of Amendment 4 to CSSB 136(CRA). Representatives
McCarty, McCabe, Patkotak, Prax, and Schrage voted against it.
Therefore, Amendment 4 failed by a vote of 2-5.
3:38:39 PM
CO-CHAIR SCHRAGE moved to adopt Amendment [5] to CSSB 136(CRA),
labeled 32-LS0856/B, 5/16/22, which read:
Page 2, Lines 17-25: Delete all material.
3:38:52 PM
REPRESENTATIVE PRAX objected.
CO-CHAIR SCHRAGE spoke to Amendment 5. He reiterated that the
material on lines 17-25 would be deleted, resulting in two
things: it would remove the ability for a membership
organization to sue, and it would remove subsection (d) which
allows for the prevailing plaintiff to recover the greater
amount of punitive damages in the amount of three times the
plaintiff's attorney's fees. He stated that he fully supported
the intent of the bill and offered his understanding that
protections already exist, but the intent of the bill is to
further clarify and reinforce that a municipality may not
restrict those rights. He is not, he said, in support of
subsection (d) and would not support the bill with those
provisions.
3:41:44 PM
REPRESENTATIVE MCCABE opined that Co-Chair Schrage may be
"misreading" the proposed amendment, and he drew attention to
subjection (c) on page 2, lines 13-17 of the bill. He offered
an example of having an NRA sticker on his car window, resulting
in a cop trying to confiscate his guns without a warrant
strictly because he is an NRA member. He opined that the
language is "just to get it in front of the judge."
3:43:50 PM
REPRESENTATIVE DRUMMOND referred to page 2, lines 13-17 of the
bill and asked whether the words "a member of" were missing on
line 17. She shared her understanding that the NRA could bring
an action under this section.
3:45:26 PM
CO-CHAIR SCHRAGE asked Ms. Kline to respond to this line of
questioning.
3:45:46 PM
MS. KLINE clarified that the language in question enables the
NRA to bring suit on behalf of its members.
CO-CHAIR SCHRAGE questioned why recovering three times the
plaintiff's attorney fees would be appropriate.
MS. KLINE said the right to keep and bear arms is a fundamental
constitutional right protected by both the Constitution of the
United States and the Alaska Constitution. She explained that
the three times recovery rate would allow for recourse if this
fundamental right was violated.
3:48:15 PM
ANDY MILLER, Assistant Attorney General, Department of Law, in
response to recent discussion, offered to follow up with the
requested information. In Alaska, he said, there are certain
provisions for recovering attorney fees, but he was unclear
whether they could be for this amount.
3:49:14 PM
REPRESENTATIVE MCCARTY characterized the language in the bill as
a "deterrent." He questioned whether a suit would be
automatically recognized if it did not turn out in favor of the
plaintiff.
MR. MILLER acknowledged that he needed to look into the language
more in depth; however, his understanding was that one would
have to prevail to get the fees.
REPRESENTATIVE MCCARTY rephrased his concern and asked whether
the municipality or entity would have to reimburse the defendant
without having to go through a countersuit process if the
defendant prevailed.
MR. MILLER shared his understanding that in general, the award
does not have any impact on the outcome for the defendant.
3:51:37 PM
REPRESENTATIVE MCCABE highlighted the language "may recover" on
page 2, line 21 of the bill and offered his understanding that
it allows the judge to reduce the amount if he/she chooses.
MR. MILLER agreed with that interpretation.
3:52:28 PM
CO-CHAIR SCHRAGE perceived the language in question to be a
disincentive for municipalities or governments to enact
emergency ordinances that would restrict Second Amendment
rights. Further, he believed it would create an incentive for
individuals to litigate the state in hopes of recovering
exorbitant attorney fees.
3:54:14 PM
REPRESENTATIVE MCCABE remarked that there are all kinds of
penalties for both civil and criminal events in state law. He
believed that the language was designed to penalize a cop or
mayor for "[going] down this road."
3:55:20 PM
CO-CHAIR SCHRAGE noted the word "Notwithstanding" on page 2,
line 20, which lays out the punitive damages that already exist.
3:55:36 PM
The committee took an at-ease from 3:55 p.m. to 3:56 p.m.
3:57:23 PM
A roll call vote was taken. Representatives Drummond, Hannan,
and Schrage voted in favor of Amendment 5 to CSSB 136(CRA).
Representatives Prax, McCarty, McCabe, and Patkotak voted
against it. Therefore, Amendment 5 failed by a vote of 3-4.
3:58:21 PM
The committee took a brief at-ease at 3:58 p.m.
3:58:39 PM
ADJOURNMENT
The House Community and Regional Affairs Standing Committee
recessed to a call of the chair at 3:59 p.m.
4:11:49 PM
CO-CHAIR SCHRAGE called the House Community and Regional Affairs
Standing Committee back to order at 4:12 p.m. Present at the
call back to order were Representatives McCarty, Drummond,
Patkotak, Prax, McCabe, Hannan, and Schrage.
SB 136-LIMITATIONS ON FIREARMS RESTRICTIONS
4:11:53 PM
CO-CHAIR SCHRAGE announced that the final order of business
would be a return to CS FOR SENATE BILL NO. 136(CRA), "An Act
relating to firearms and other weapons restrictions."
4:12:11 PM
The committee took a brief at-ease at 4:12 p.m.
4:12:32 PM
CO-CHAIR HANNAN moved to report CSSB 136(CRA) out of committee
with individual recommendations and the accompanying fiscal
notes.
4:12:52 PM
CO-CHAIR SCHRAGE objected for the purpose of discussion. He
noted that he cannot support the bill in its current form, but
he had spoken to the bill sponsor's office and they've indicated
support for removing "punitive damages" in the next committee of
referral. He maintained his objection and asked that members
vote on the bill.
4:13:46 PM
A roll call vote was taken. Representatives Patkotak, Prax,
McCarty, McCabe, and Schrage voted in favor of the motion to
report CSSB 136(CRA) out of committee with individual
recommendations and the accompanying fiscal notes.
Representatives Drummond and Hannan voted against it.
Therefore, CSSB 136(CRA) was reported out of the House Community
and Regional Affairs Standing Committee by a vote of 5-2.
4:14:40 PM
ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business before the committee, the House
Community and Regional Affairs Standing Committee meeting was
adjourned at 4:15 p.m.
| Document Name | Date/Time | Subjects |
|---|---|---|
| SB 136 Amendment Packet.pdf |
HCRA 5/16/2022 8:00:00 AM |
SB 136 |
| SB 136 Completed Amendment Packet.pdf |
HCRA 5/16/2022 8:00:00 AM |
SB 136 |
| CSSB 136 Sectional Analysis.pdf |
HCRA 4/28/2022 8:00:00 AM HCRA 5/16/2022 8:00:00 AM |
SB 136 |
| CSSB136 Fiscal Note 3.pdf |
HCRA 4/28/2022 8:00:00 AM HCRA 5/16/2022 8:00:00 AM |
SB 136 |
| CSSB 136 Version B.PDF |
HCRA 4/28/2022 8:00:00 AM HCRA 5/16/2022 8:00:00 AM |
SB 136 |
| CSSB 136 Explanation of Changes.pdf |
HCRA 4/28/2022 8:00:00 AM HCRA 5/16/2022 8:00:00 AM |
SB 136 |
| SB136 Sponsor Statement.pdf |
HCRA 4/28/2022 8:00:00 AM HCRA 5/16/2022 8:00:00 AM |
SB 136 |
| SB 136 Supporting Document - Opposition 5.16.22.pdf |
HCRA 5/16/2022 8:00:00 AM |
SB 136 |