Legislature(2021 - 2022)BARNES 124
04/26/2022 08:00 AM House COMMUNITY & REGIONAL AFFAIRS
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| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| HB303 | |
| HB402 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| += | HB 402 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| += | HB 303 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | TELECONFERENCED |
ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE
HOUSE COMMUNITY AND REGIONAL AFFAIRS STANDING COMMITTEE
April 26, 2022
8:09 a.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Sara Hannan, Co-Chair
Representative Calvin Schrage, Co-Chair
Representative Harriet Drummond
Representative Ken McCarty
Representative Kevin McCabe
MEMBERS ABSENT
Representative Josiah Patkotak, Vice Chair
Representative Mike Prax
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
HOUSE BILL NO. 303
"An Act relating to commercial passenger vessel environmental
compliance; relating to commercial passenger vessel fees;
establishing the wastewater infrastructure grant fund; repealing
the authority for citizens' suits relating to commercial
passenger vessel environmental compliance; repealing the
commercial passenger vessel recognition program; and providing
for an effective date."
- HEARD & HELD
HOUSE BILL NO. 402
"An Act relating to identification requirements for contractors
and home inspectors."
- MOVED HB 402 OUT OF COMMITTEE
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION
BILL: HB 303
SHORT TITLE: PASSENGER VESSEL ENVIRONMENTAL COMPLIANCE
SPONSOR(s): RULES BY REQUEST OF THE GOVERNOR
02/04/22 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
02/04/22 (H) CRA, RES, FIN
04/21/22 (H) CRA AT 8:00 AM BARNES 124
04/21/22 (H) -- MEETING CANCELED --
04/26/22 (H) CRA AT 8:00 AM BARNES 124
BILL: HB 402
SHORT TITLE: IDENTIFICATION OF CONTRACTOR IN ADS
SPONSOR(s): COMMUNITY & REGIONAL AFFAIRS
03/18/22 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
03/18/22 (H) CRA, L&C
03/29/22 (H) CRA AT 8:00 AM BARNES 124
03/29/22 (H) -- MEETING CANCELED --
04/05/22 (H) CRA AT 8:00 AM BARNES 124
04/05/22 (H) -- MEETING CANCELED --
04/07/22 (H) CRA AT 8:00 AM BARNES 124
04/07/22 (H) -- MEETING CANCELED --
04/12/22 (H) CRA AT 8:00 AM BARNES 124
04/12/22 (H) Heard & Held
04/12/22 (H) MINUTE(CRA)
04/14/22 (H) CRA AT 8:00 AM BARNES 124
04/14/22 (H) Heard & Held
04/14/22 (H) MINUTE(CRA)
04/21/22 (H) CRA AT 8:00 AM BARNES 124
04/21/22 (H) -- MEETING CANCELED --
04/26/22 (H) CRA AT 8:00 AM BARNES 124
WITNESS REGISTER
EMMA POKON, Deputy Commissioner
Department of Environmental Conservation
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Presented HB 303 on behalf of the House
Rules Standing Committee, sponsor by request of the governor.
RANDY BATES, Director
Division of Water
Department of Environmental Conservation
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Presented HB 303 on behalf of the House
Rules Standing Committee, sponsor by request of the governor.
ACTION NARRATIVE
8:09:10 AM
CO-CHAIR SARA HANNAN called the House Community and Regional
Affairs Standing Committee meeting to order at 8:09 a.m.
Representatives Drummond, McCarty, McCabe, Schrage, and Hannan
were present at the call to order.
HB 303-PASSENGER VESSEL ENVIRONMENTAL COMPLIANCE
8:10:26 AM
CO-CHAIR HANNAN announced that the first order of business would
be HOUSE BILL NO. 303, "An Act relating to commercial passenger
vessel environmental compliance; relating to commercial
passenger vessel fees; establishing the wastewater
infrastructure grant fund; repealing the authority for citizens'
suits relating to commercial passenger vessel environmental
compliance; repealing the commercial passenger vessel
recognition program; and providing for an effective date."
8:10:54 AM
EMMA POKON, Deputy Commissioner, Alaska Department of
Environmental Conservation (DEC), presented HB 303 on behalf of
the House Rules Standing Committee, sponsor by request of the
governor. She stated that she would be sharing what DEC has
been doing over the last few years, including outreach to
communities and stakeholders, the work to understand baseline
water quality conditions, and specifics for DEC's proposed
program going forward.
8:11:32 AM
The committee took a brief at-ease at 8:11 a.m.
8:12:16 AM
DEPUTY COMMISSIONER POKON stressed how seriously DEC takes its
responsibilities with wastewater discharge oversight in
particular. She said DEC questions how it could most
effectively provide oversight of the food industry while
protecting water quality in the state, as well as most
effectively use available funding to provide the best
environmental outcomes overall.
8:14:23 AM
RANDY BATES, Director, Division of Water, Department of
Environmental Conservation (DEC), presented a PowerPoint, titled
"HB 303 Commercial Passenger Vessel Environmental Compliance"
[hardcopy included in the committee packet]. He stated that
specific to the commercial passenger vessel oversight, there is
currently one marine engineer, one environmental protection
specialist, and two halftime program specialists. He informed
the committee how many vessels were in service over the last
couple of years. He noted that the larger vessels had a "clean
bill of health" and did not incur any discharge violations,
whereas the smaller vessels [50 to 249 berths] had challenges
with their discharges the past season. Once the inspections
were completed and troubleshooting was done, he explained, the
water quality discharges improved by the end of the season.
8:19:07 AM
REPRESENTATIVE MCCABE questioned whether 250 was an indication
of passenger berths or total berths.
MR. BATES answered passenger berths [not crew].
REPRESENTATIVE MCCABE referred to DEC being given the
opportunity to correct some issues with the small cruise ships
and asked whether any fines were levied.
MR. BATES responded that the smaller vessels operate under a
best management practice to maintain a standard. He did not
recall issuing fines, but the calculations and negotiations are
ongoing, he said.
8:22:43 AM
CO-CHAIR HANNAN sought to confirm that the number of vessels was
13 small and 8 large. Of the 13 small, she asked how many
different corporate lines or businesses are involved.
MR. BATES confirmed those numbers to be correct and offered his
understanding that 4 of the 13 small vessels operated under
parent lines.
CO-CHAIR HANNAN asked whether the violations were equally
distributed amongst the fleet.
MR. BATES said they were equally distributed. He further
explained that he had conversations with the owners of each of
the companies and vessels.
CO-CHAIR HANNAN asked what was being done prior to COVID-19 in
terms of monitoring the small vessels.
8:25:33 AM
MR. BATES replied that their staff looked at the best management
practices and worked with the operators on the sampling to move
them toward compliance. To his knowledge, he said, inspections
on the small vessels had not been done before.
CO-CHAIR HANNAN observed that by design and advertisement, the
small vessels are going into much more remote locations, such as
small bays and "nooks." She referred to the staffing and how
much time it took on the 24 ships that were monitored.
MR. BATES replied that monitoring means water quality monitoring
and sampling, which was performed by a specific staff. In
regard to the inspections, the marine engineer, the "EPS3," and
the two part-timers are dedicated cruise ship individuals, he
said.
8:31:45 AM
REPRESENTATIVE DRUMMOND questioned how sanitation is accounted
for on larger vessels with a large number of people.
MR. BATES responded that DEC follows the federal definition
under the Vessel and Discharge Act, based on passenger berths
not including crew. The discharge requirements stand regardless
of the number of passengers on board, as there must be a
treatment system that meets water quality standards, he said.
REPRESENTATIVE DRUMMOND spoke of a time when she toured a
Princess cruise ship and saw how duties were performed,
especially in reference to sanitation. She asked how paid
equipment was going unutilized on large ships.
DEPUTY COMMISSIONER POKON noted that Alaska Statutes followed
federal rules as far as the number of passengers and discharge
protocol.
8:35:56 AM
REPRESENTATIVE MCCARTY referred to page 4 of the bill and asked
whether his interpretation of the language was correct.
MR. BATES stated that within the bill there is a provision that
provides an incentive for a small or large commercial passenger
vessel (CPV) to provide DEC with electronic monitoring if their
wastewater discharges. If in a manner supported by DEC, the CPV
would get $1 off of their $5 per berth fee. He explained that
people still need to be on the vessels for inspections and to
run the pipes, adding that he would love to see additional
electronic monitoring from the vessels to be able to track flow
rates, particularly if issues rise.
REPRESENTITIVE MCCARTY asked whether technology exists in
reference to the flow rate.
MR. BATES did not know the answer.
8:40:16 AM
MR. BATES returned to the presentation on slide 3, titled "2021
Cruise Ship Oversight," which read as follows [original
punctuation provided]:
multiply DEC led on-board inspections of small and large
discharging vessels operating in Alaska
multiplyRespectful of COVID-19 protocols and safety
measures
multiplyInspections scheduled and unscheduled, in-port
and underway
multiply Vessel sampling results
multiply Port and common corridor transit area water quality
sampling
MR. BATES added that despite the limitation of cruise ships in
2020 and 2021, DEC saw high bacteria concentrations at several
ports. He said that DEC looks forward to continuing to monitor
for water quality into 2022 and beyond and will continue to
collect data to tell a story about water quality in port
communities throughout Alaska.
8:41:18 AM
REPRESENTATIVE MCCARTY asked how far back the samplings went.
MR. BATES replied since 2015. More recently, he said, DEC
dedicated additional funding specific to evaluating water
quality in more areas. He continued to slide 4, titled "2022
Season and Beyond," which read as follows [original punctuation
provided]:
multiply DEC marine engineers and inspectors will
multiplyperform initial and annual inspections on ships
operating in Alaska as early in the season as possible
multiplywill perform both scheduled and unscheduled
inspections in-port and while vessel is underway
multiply Small vessels will be subject to the same inspection
requirements
8:44:07 AM
REPRESENTATIVE MCCABE asked whether Mr. Bates is part of the
inspection team that goes on board the vessel in the first few
weeks.
MR. BATES replied yes and no. He said DEC works with the U.S.
Coast Guard and, thus, has an understanding of what the Coast
Guard's inspections look like. He added that DEC and the U.S.
Coast Guard each have specific compliance focuses under federal
law.
8:45:25 AM
REPRESENTATIVE DRUMMOND sought to confirm that 1.6 million
passengers are expected in 2022.
MR. BATES confirmed that is correct.
8:47:35 AM
CO-CHAIR HANNAN sought to confirm that 1.6 million was based on
the scheduled number of births available.
MR. BATES answered that is correct.
CO-CHAIR HANNAN sought to verify that the passenger vessel
charge was applied only on a full birth.
MR. BATES answered no. He said structurally, vessels are
required to tell DEC by March 1 how many passengers are on each
voyage port to port, which dictates the passenger vessel charge
and the ocean ranger fee.
8:51:08 AM
REPRESENTATIVE MCCARTY inquired about cruise ships' septic tank
discharge and asked whether the release occurs in open water.
MR. BATES said that is accurate, adding that some vessels choose
to wait until they are 12 miles off the coast of Alaska to
discharge.
REPRESENTATIVE MCCABE sought to confirm that discharge limits
are the same regardless of the number of passenger and crew.
MR. BATES confirmed that is correct.
8:55:49 AM
CO-CHAIR HANNAN referred to onboard inspections when the vessels
are underway and sought to understand how similar it is to ocean
ranger programs.
MR. BATES replied that last year, with such a limited season, it
brought the opportunity for existing staff to set up protocols
for inspection. He stated that it is different than the ocean
ranger program. Additionally, the DEC inspectors have badge
authority, whereas ocean rangers do not have the same capacity
to "get behind all the doors."
8:59:22 AM
MR. BATES proceeded to slide 5, titled "Existing Challenges,"
which read as follows [original punctuation provided]:
multiply Commercial Passenger Vessel Environmental Compliance
Program statutes were passed in 2001
multiply Statutes require outdated, inefficient reporting
methods
multiply Statute-based standards are difficult to change
when waste treatment and monitoring technologies
improve
multiply 2006 ballot initiative put ocean ranger observers on
large vessels
multiply DEC staff spent significant time going through
ocean ranger reports
multiply Ocean ranger observations produced 6 notices of
violation over 12 years
multiply Small vessels did not get the same attention as
large vessels
multiply Water quality in port communities is impacted by
cruise passengers using onshore facilities
MR. BATES pointed out that for the first time, small vessels are
getting the same level of attention as the large vessels.
9:02:37 AM
REPRESENTATIVE MCCABE referred to the bullet point describing
ocean ranger observations producing six notices of violations
over twelve years and asked how many sailings were included in
this time period.
MR. BATES replied six violations through thousands of voyages.
CO-CHAIR HANNAN opined that there should be zero violations with
an observer on board.
REPRESENTATIVE MCCABE suggested that the cost of the ocean
ranger program should be compared to the benefits.
CO-CHAIR HANNAN offered her understanding that no one is opposed
to better monitoring and more compliance for cleaner water in
Alaska.
9:10:18 AM
MR. BATES continued to slide 6, titled "Proposed Changes," which
read as follows [original punctuation provided]:
multiply Move detailed statutes to regulation
multiply Clarify DEC authority to board vessels while in port
and underway
multiply Allow DEC to set format requirements for reports from
vessels
multiply Simplify fee structure
multiply Incorporate technology
multiply Repeal ocean ranger observers
multiply Establish grant program to assist port municipalities
to upgrade wastewater treatment facilities serving
vessel passengers
MR. BATES added that the bill has a zero fiscal note. He
highlighted the delayed effective date for the change in berth
fees, which would go into effect in 2024. He moved to slide 7,
titled "What Will Not Change," which read as follows [original
punctuation provided]:
multiply DEC's authority to conduct inspections at reasonable
times and ability to get a warrant if necessary
multiply DEC's vessel registration system, which is required
for all passenger vessels with over 50 overnight
berths
multiply Air emission monitoring program
multiply The large cruise ship wastewater discharge general
permit
multiply Separate discharge requirements for small vessels
multiply Sampling and reporting requirements
multiply What may not be discharged to Alaska's environment
multiply Recognition program
MR. BATES advanced to slide 8, titled "Current Fee Structure,"
which highlighted Commercial Passenger Vessel Environmental
Compliance Fee (CPVEC) fees compared to ocean ranger fees. He
moved to slide 9, titled "Proposed Fee Structure," which read as
follows [original punctuation provided]:
multiply All vessels over 50 berths pay $5 per lower berth
multiplyLarge vessels pay roughly the same
multiplySmall vessels will pay increased fees in 2024
multiplyThe fee would be reduced by $1 per lower berth
for any ship that maintains a DEC-approved electronic
wastewater monitoring system
9:14:38 AM
MR. BATES continued to slide 10, titled "Local Water Quality
Disparity," which read as follows [original punctuation
provided]:
multiply Large cruise ship permit allows up to 40 fecal colony
forming units per 100 ml.
multiply Local wastewater treatment facility permit allows up
to 1.5 million fecal colony forming units per 100 ml.
multiply Many of the over one million yearly cruise ship
passengers will use onshore restrooms when visiting
Alaska ports
MR. BATES observed that passenger traffic in port communities
has a strong correlation with increased treatment needs.
9:16:53 AM
REPRESENTATIVE MCCABE highlighted the word "allows" and asked
whether the allowance is being exceeded with the presence of all
the passengers. He asked whether the allowance should be
changed.
MR. BATES replied there are water quality standards uniformly
applied throughout all the industries, and in this case, the
fecal limit is 40 units per 100 ml which the large vessels are
meeting. On small vessels, he said, they do not have the
advanced wastewater treatment systems the large vessels have.
He gave examples of various communities and their numbers, as
shown on slide 11, titled "Local Water Quality," which shows
three columns featuring community, 301(h) waiver, and fecal
colony forming unit effluent limit(s) per pound/100 milliliters.
The figures cover the Alaska communities of Juneau, Ketchikan,
Sitka, and Skagway. He reiterated that the number of passengers
and crew are stressing the system, noting that it is more
difficult for smaller communities to maintain systems necessary
to treat that type of wastewater from a transient population.
9:21:03 AM
DEPUTY COMMISSIONER POKON stated that a significant factor is
which treatment technology is available on the large vessels
versus the small vessels in terms discharge.
REPRESENTATIVE MCCABE expressed his confusion about the
allowances. He further conveyed that it appeared the cruise
ships are held to a higher standard than those on shore. He
wished to see more data, opining that there are too many
variables.
MR. BATES acknowledged the "spot on" observation and agreed the
cruise ships are held to a much higher standard. The average
monthly, weekly, and maximum numbers shown on slide 11 are the
maximum allowances over the course of the timeframes. He
recognized the need to improve community wastewater treatment
facilities. Even in the absence of cruise vessels in 2020 and
2021, many of the ports showed existing problems of human-based
discharges that are unrelated to commercial passenger vessels.
9:25:43 AM
CO-CHAIR HANNAN sought to confirm that eight communities in
Alaska currently have the 301(h) waiver treatment facilities of
the Clean Water Act, meaning that their local discharge systems
do not comply with the Clean Water Act discharge standards.
MR. BATES clarified that nine communities are operating under
the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA)-based waivers,
which only treat to a primary level of treatment.
REPRESENTATIVE MCCABE stated his belief that it would be a
mistake to blame local communities' sewer issues strictly on
cruise ships. In previous conversation, he said, it had already
been stated that the communities have problems regardless.
MR. BATES replied that DEC is fully engaged with the communities
and wants to assist improving their treatment so their water and
environment are cleaner and healthier. He stated HB 303 would
be a "path forward" for restructuring funding and providing an
opportunity for the communities.
9:29:56 AM
REPRESENTATIVE MCCARTY stated that Alaska greatly appreciates
cruise ships, adding that the money communities make from the
cruise industry could go towards system improvement. He
discussed the figure of 1.5 million in terms of contamination
levels.
MR. BATES stated that the water quality standard applied to
fecal was a level of 40 units, adding that seafood caught from
that water was still safe to eat. At 1.5 million, the seafood
was not safe to eat. He discussed the advanced wastewater
treatment facility on large vessels, which produced water
quality standards of 40 units. Alternatively, the discharge
from the 301(h) waiver treatment facilities onshore could not
meet water quality standards. He identified "mixing zones,"
which dispersed large quantities of water with the fecal matter
to meet water quality standards at the edge of the boundary. He
added that communities are provided with the ability to
discharge with a mixing zone to meet water quality standards.
REPRESENTATIVE MCCARTY commented that he looked forward to
further discussions on water treatment processes.
CO-CHAIR HANNAN shared her observation that aside from
wastewater treatment, there are many houses and lodges along
coastal Alaska that have outflow lines.
9:36:44 AM
CO-CHAIR SCHRAGE acknowledged the room for improvement regarding
onshore communities. He imagined that upgrades would be costly,
and asked to what extent inspections would be funded,
maintained, and pursued. Finding the balance between properly
monitored passenger vessels in sensitive areas and the state's
job to protect its communities is key, he added.
9:39:40 AM
REPRESENTATIVE DRUMMOND noted that cruise ship populations are
often bigger than some communities. She agreed that shoreside
facilities should be a priority.
9:40:52 AM
REPRESENTATIVE MCCABE reminded the committee of the world
economy. He shared an example of eating fish from other
countries that may not have the same water quality standards as
the U.S.
CO-CHAIR HANNAN shared her recollection that CPVEC fees were not
allowed, adding that the use of those fees was the focus of
prior litigation. She questioned whether the legislation was
changing some of this in reference to the grant programs.
MR. BATES stated that it takes DEC approximately $4 million to
run the oversite program. He said in a normal year with
passenger loads, there is enough to run the state's oversite
program and provide cost effective matter for port communities.
9:45:38 AM
DEPUTY COMMISSIONER POKON expanded on the use of funds collected
from commercial passenger vessels. She stated that DEC needs to
be providing a service to the vessel, adding that they "threaded
the needle" in terms of language used in the bill and how those
funds can be distributed. She recognized that the onshore
facilities are getting additional volume from passengers and
crew passing through the communities. She noted that their
treatment technology is not as robust as the larger vessels and
cannot reach the same standard.
9:46:54 AM
CO-CHAIR HANNAN highlighted the struggles in other states
regarding local limits and constraints. She sought information
on federal limits in terms of what can be done in Alaska
communities.
DEPUTY COMMISSIONER POKON offered to follow up with the
requested information.
9:49:43 AM
MR. BATES stated that the bill would provide an opportunity for
DEC to do a better management and oversight job of the industry,
as well as provide an opportunity to improve wastewater
treatment in Alaska.
[HB 303 was held over.]
HB 402-IDENTIFICATION OF CONTRACTOR IN ADS
9:50:38 AM
CO-CHAIR HANNAN announced that the final order of business would
be HOUSE BILL NO. 402, "An Act relating to identification
requirements for contractors and home inspectors."
9:50:59 AM
REPRESENTATIVE MCCABE expressed his support for the bill and
expressed hope it would be advanced today.
CO-CHAIR HANNAN reminded the committee that the Alaska Division
of Corporations, Business, and Professional Licensing had staff
online to answer any questions. She relayed that the division
had no concerns with updating the statute.
9:51:51 AM
REPRESENTATIVE MCCARTY concurred with moving bill, as it would
not impose on contractors making websites or require them to
become specialists in the trade. He proffered that the bill
would make things easier.
9:52:22 AM
CO-CHAIR SCHRAGE moved to report HB 402 out of committee with
individual recommendations and the accompanying fiscal notes.
There being no objection, HB 402 was reported out of the House
Community and Regional Affairs Standing Committee.
9:53:01 AM
ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business before the committee, the House
Community and Regional Affairs Standing Committee meeting was
adjourned at 9:53 a.m.
| Document Name | Date/Time | Subjects |
|---|---|---|
| DEC HB 303 Cruise Ship Presentation.pdf |
HCRA 4/21/2022 8:00:00 AM HCRA 4/26/2022 8:00:00 AM |
HB 303 |
| HB 303 - Letters of Opposition 4.25.22.pdf |
HCRA 4/26/2022 8:00:00 AM |
HB 303 |
| HB 402 - DCCED Zero Fiscal Note.pdf |
HCRA 4/26/2022 8:00:00 AM |
HB 402 |
| HB 303 HCRA - CPV Grant Program; tonnage clause-4.28.22.pdf |
HCRA 4/26/2022 8:00:00 AM |
HB 303 |