Legislature(2003 - 2004)
03/25/2003 08:05 AM House CRA
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
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+ teleconferenced
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ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE
HOUSE COMMUNITY AND REGIONAL AFFAIRS
STANDING COMMITTEE
March 25, 2003
8:05 a.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Carl Morgan, Chair
Representative Pete Kott
Representative Ralph Samuels
Representative Sharon Cissna
Representative Albert Kookesh
MEMBERS ABSENT
Representative Kelly Wolf, Vice Chair
Representative Tom Anderson
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
HOUSE BILL NO. 189
"An Act raising the age for purchase, sale, exchange, or
possession of tobacco to age 21."
- HEARD AND HELD
HOUSE BILL NO. 190
"An Act relating to certain licenses for the sale, distribution,
or manufacture of tobacco products; relating to tobacco taxes
and sales and cigarette tax stamps; relating to provisions
making certain cigarettes contraband and subject to seizure and
forfeiture; relating to certain crimes, penalties, and interest
concerning tobacco taxes and sales; relating to notification
regarding a cigarette manufacturer's noncompliance with the
tobacco product Master Settlement Agreement or related statutory
provisions and to confiscation of the affected cigarettes; and
providing for an effective date."
- BILL HEARING POSTPONED
PREVIOUS ACTION
BILL: HB 189
SHORT TITLE:PROHIBIT TOBACCO USE UNTIL AGE 21
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S)CRAWFORD
Jrn-Date Jrn-Page Action
03/12/03 0512 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME -
REFERRALS
03/12/03 0512 (H) CRA, L&C, JUD
03/12/03 0512 (H) REFERRED TO CRA
03/25/03 (H) CRA AT 8:00 AM CAPITOL 124
WITNESS REGISTER
REPRESENTATIVE HARRY CRAWFORD
Alaska State Legislature
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Presented HB 189 as the sponsor.
STEPHANIE ZIDEK-CHANDLER, Manager
State of Alaska Tobacco Prevention and Control Unit
Division of Public Health
Department of Health & Social Services
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified that the unit is neutral on HB
189.
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 03-9, SIDE A
Number 0001
CHAIR CARL MORGAN called the House Community and Regional
Affairs Standing Committee meeting to order at 8:05 a.m.
Representatives Morgan, Kott, Samuels, and Cissna were present
at the call to order. Representative Kookesh arrived as the
meeting was in progress.
HB 189-PROHIBIT TOBACCO USE UNTIL AGE 21
CHAIR MORGAN announced that the only order of business would be
HOUSE BILL NO. 189, "An Act raising the age for purchase, sale,
exchange, or possession of tobacco to age 21."
Number 0073
REPRESENTATIVE HARRY CRAWFORD, Alaska State Legislature, spoke
as the sponsor of HB 189. Representative Crawford indicated
that with HB 189 members can positively impact the future and
make a better world without any extra expense. Representative
Crawford reviewed the statistics provided on a document
entitled, "Five Good Reasons to Raise the Legal Smoking Age to
21", which read as follows:
1. Approximately 90 percent of smokers begin smoking
before the age of 21. Each day, about 6,000
adolescents try a cigarette for the first time; about
3,000 become daily smokers.
2. But smoking addiction does not develop among
adults. Among those over the age of 21 who take up
smoking for the first time, more than 90 percent soon
drop it completely.
3. Of an estimated 16.6 million smokers in the U.S.
(1995 figures), 5.3 million will die prematurely from
smoking-related disease, resulting in an estimated
$200 billion in health care costs (about $12,000 per
smoker) and about 64 million years of potential life
lost (12 to 21 years per smoking-related deaths).
4. Cigarette smoking is considered to be the single
most preventable contributor to chronic diseases.
5. Cigarette smoking during childhood and adolescence
produce significant health problems among young
people. A starting age of smoking of earlier than 21
more than doubles the risk of developing future
smoking-related diseases. It is critical that access
of minors to tobacco products be reduced, and raising
the legal smoking age to 21 would result in
significant future savings in health costs.
REPRESENTATIVE CRAWFORD remarked that this is something that
[the legislature] should and could do. Therefore, he said he
would appreciate this committee reporting HB 189 out of
committee. He also noted that he would appreciate everyone
signing on as a co-sponsor.
Number 0334
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT asked how many other states have similar
provisions in which the legal smoking age was raised to 21.
REPRESENTATIVE CRAWFORD answered that several have tried to
increase the age, although no state has actually accomplished
it. For example, California considered doing so but decided not
to because it would lose a considerable amount of the tobacco
tax.
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT inquired as to whether there is a large
influx of people smoking between age 19-21.
REPRESENTATIVE CRAWFORD pointed out that under Alaska's law a
person is of age on their 19th birthday. There's no breakdown
on [smoking] for the ages of 19-21. However, 90 percent of
those who start smoking do so before the age of 21. Therefore,
if the desire is to not have people take up smoking as a
lifelong habit, the best solution is to delay the legal smoking
age to 21.
Number 0586
REPRESENTATIVE CISSNA informed the committee that she had a
former husband and a late husband who both died due to
complications from cigarette smoke. She then turned to the
perspective of a sociologist and noted that there are different
markers for adulthood. In the U.S., some of the markers of
adulthood include the ability to obtain a drivers' license, to
be drafted and to be able to legally vote, drink, and smoke.
However, those markers are at varying ages. She noted that some
psychologists say that adolescence is being prolonged as
adulthood skills and responsibilities are being taken on later
in life.
REPRESENTATIVE CRAWFORD pointed out that no matter the age of a
voter, the decision to vote won't kill an individual later in
life. Representative Crawford related a conversation he had
with his nephew who entered the military at age 18. His nephew
said people should have the right to smoke at age 18, especially
since that individual has the right to die for his/her country.
To that, Representative Crawford posed the notion of raising the
age to enter the military to 21. His nephew responded that such
couldn't be done because at age 21 a lot of individuals wouldn't
join the military because they would realize their mortality.
The aforementioned illustrates why the smoking age should be
raised to 21, he said. By the time an individual is 21, he/she
makes better decisions.
Number 0892
CHAIR MORGAN remarked that the timing of this legislation,
during a time of war, may not be the greatest. He turned to the
issue of incarceration and the matter of whether young people
should be tried as a juvenile or an adult when the young person
has committed a serious crime. Chair Morgan related his
personal experience with smoking.
REPRESENTATIVE CRAWFORD said that he would like to provide
parents with another tool to keep their children from starting
to smoke. He related his belief that being able to tell
children that smoking is illegal [until age 21] is another tool
for parents and makes it more difficult for young people to
obtain cigarettes. With regard to trying children as adults,
Representative Crawford pointed out that such is only done when
a serious offense such as murder has been committed. He said he
believes the aforementioned is a completely different debate
than the legal drinking and smoking age.
Number 1059
REPRESENTATIVE SAMUELS highlighted that there is no fiscal note
from the Department of Revenue or the Department of Public
Safety. In essence, HB 189 creates a new crime for those age
18-20 and based on the assumption that there would be some
violations, investigations, and penalties, he assumed that there
would be some cost. Therefore, [the zero fiscal note from] the
Department of Law didn't make sense to him. He recalled the
loss of tax revenue California faced and asked if Alaska would
be in the same situation.
REPRESENTATIVE CRAWFORD pointed out that the police and the
courts are supposed to be enforcing the current smoking age of
19 now. Therefore, moving the age to 21 won't be an additional
cost, he said. In fact, the legislation will make it easier for
the police to identify underage smokers. With regard to loss
revenue, Representative Crawford acknowledged that some revenue
would be lost. However, he said he felt that it should be
revenue that the state should be happy to lose.
REPRESENTATIVE SAMUELS maintained his belief that there would be
some cost incurred in the criminal justice system because a new
class of 20-year-olds that can't do something that they once
could. Philosophically, Representative Samuels agreed that
individuals make better decisions at age 21 versus 18, however
he stressed that individuals make better decisions at age 30
versus 21. Representative Samuels said that he wasn't yet
convinced that HB 189 would stop a 14-year-old from smoking.
REPRESENTATIVE CRAWFORD indicated that stopping a 19-year-old or
20-year-old from smoking would be just as good as stopping a 14-
year-old. Representative Crawford highlighted that there is no
redeeming social good derived from smoking whereas fighting for
the country has a good redeeming social value. Representative
Crawford stated that anything that can be done to lessen the
aforementioned burden on society should be done.
Number 1335
CHAIR MORGAN asked if there are any estimates as to the savings
in health care costs if this legislation were to pass.
REPRESENTATIVE CRAWFORD answered that many less people would try
smoking if the decision to start smoking was delayed until age
21. He reiterated that only 10 percent of those who began
smoking after age 21 actually stay with it. He recognized that
there is a problem with enforcement and with children obtaining
cigarettes to smoke and raising the legal smoking age to 21
provides a better tool for enforcement, he said.
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT, in response to Chair Morgan's question,
said that "we" don't know [the savings in health care costs were
this legislation to pass] because there are no studies that
specify the number of 19-year-olds who begin smoking at 19-21.
Therefore, Representative Kott viewed the legislation as
problematic because there is no nexus to establish whether the
age should be increased to 21.
Number 1528
REPRESENTATIVE KOOKESH remarked that if he could see a redeeming
quality in smoking he could understand the debate, however there
isn't one. Everything that can be done to keep young people
from smoking until the age of 21 should be. He pointed out that
the existing drinking age is 21, and therefore he questioned
what would be wrong with the same for smoking. Furthermore, the
war shouldn't be used as an argument against raising the smoking
age. This legislation is another tool and it should be adopted,
he said. With regard to enforcement, he echoed earlier
testimony that it should be a lot easier to identify whether an
individual is under 21 versus under 18. Representative Kookesh
stressed that this decision should be made while keeping in mind
whether there is a redeeming quality of smoking. Moreover, he
indicated the need to keep in mind what's in the best interest
of the state and the children of the state.
CHAIR MORGAN asked if 13 and 14-year-olds are being stopped from
smoking now. He emphasized that he wasn't sure that passing a
law would alleviate a social problem.
REPRESENTATIVE CRAWFORD said that the state needs to do a better
job with enforcement and this legislation would provide another
enforcement tool. He explained that currently only 18-year-olds
are allowed to buy cigarettes in sting operations; there have
been problems finding enough 18-year-olds to perform these sting
operations. Raising the age to 21 would allow the use of people
18-20 years of age in these sting operations. Representative
Crawford said that he would like to see more efforts to stop
young people from smoking. He pointed out that policy calls
have been made with regard to alcohol and he said he believes a
policy call should be made with tobacco as well. Representative
Crawford characterized smoking as a scourge on society and
anything that can be done to lessen that should be done.
Number 1800
REPRESENTATIVE CISSNA pointed out that Alaska has a strong
libertarian, freedom-loving streak. She agreed that there isn't
anything redeeming about cigarette smoking. Although
legislation is the top as far as making people do things, it
hasn't been successful in changing social behavior. For
instance, Alaska leads the nation in alcoholism. Representative
Cissna related her belief that this is a matter of whether one
believes social issues should be changed through laws or
education. Although education is tougher, it's more successful,
she said.
REPRESENTATIVE CRAWFORD recalled his childhood when there were
no prohibitions with regard to obtaining cigarettes. Over the
years the percentage of smokers in the U.S. has decreased and he
attributed that to raising the age at which it's legal to smoke.
Therefore, he said he believes that trend should be continued in
order to make it more difficult for young people to obtain
cigarettes and start smoking. This is a policy call that [the
legislature] should make. The drinking age was raised for the
same reason [that the smoking age should be raised]; people make
better decisions when they're older. If one can prevent tobacco
products from getting in the hands of the young, then some
people won't smoke, and therefore less will die of smoking-
related diseases in the future. This is a chance to do good in
the world and do so without an expense, he emphasized.
Number 2013
CHAIR MORGAN related his belief that education is the [best]
prevention. If any legislation is going to be passed [in this
area], it should be for more education. Chair Morgan indicated
that he has a problem with HB 189, although he was clear that he
doesn't support smoking.
REPRESENTATIVE KOOKESH said that something has to be done.
Everyone agrees that there is a problem and doing nothing sends
the wrong message. If something else was on the table, such as
an education program, he said he would be glad to review it.
However, there is nothing else on the table, he emphasized.
Although this legislation isn't the [ultimate] solution, it's a
step that should be taken.
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT stressed that his problem is that he doesn't
know if there is a problem for those between the age of 19 and
21. He inquired as to how many start smoking at the age of 19.
"There's no statistical data out there that suggests there's
anybody; so what are we trying to cure," he asked.
Representative Kott said that the largest age group is 13-18 as
suggested by all the young people smoking outside the high
schools. He agreed that nothing else is on the table and
emphasized that there should be an educational program that
starts at the home through the final grade in school.
Furthermore, many parents aren't parenting in the manner they
should. Moreover, there is evidence that when the two heavy
smokers in the family are mom and dad, the child would be more
impacted health wise than if she/he had picked up a cigarette
casually. There are many things, in regard to behavior, that
are out of the control [of the legislature and the laws].
Representative Kott agreed that there is no redeeming value with
smoking just as there is no redeeming value with a 16-year-old
behind the wheel who tragically crashes and ends his/her life as
well as the lives of others.
Number 2298
REPRESENTATIVE CISSNA posed the question of when does adulthood
begin. As mentioned earlier, there are different ages marking
adulthood for different things, which she characterized as
"crazy." She suggested that the best way to address this is to
be consistent [in the age at which adulthood begins].
REPRESENTATIVE KOOKESH related his belief that raising the legal
smoking age to 21 is appropriate because it will be rare that
there is a 21-year-old in high school. Therefore, no students
age 18 and 19 would [legally be able to] bring cigarettes to the
high school.
REPRESENTATIVE CRAWFORD announced his support of putting more
money into education against smoking. However, that's another
bill and HB 189 is on the table and has redeeming social value
and it won't cost anything. Furthermore, raising the legal
smoking age to 21 will result in less people smoking in the
future. Conversely, without the passage of HB 189 there will be
more smokers.
REPRESENTATIVE SAMUELS inquired as to the effort to bust
underage smokers at high schools across the state.
Number 2550
STEPHANIE ZIDEK-CHANDLER, Manager, State of Alaska Tobacco
Prevention and Control Unit, Division of Public Health,
Department of Health & Social Services, answered that the
information from the police contracts relate that it's
insignificant and isn't considered a priority. In further
response to Representative Samuels, she specified that the unit
has three full-time and two part-time investigators as well as a
host of confidential informants. Furthermore, in various
communities throughout the state the community's police force
contract to provide inspections and investigations in those
communities.
REPRESENTATIVE SAMUELS asked if Ms. Zidek-Chandler had any
statistical information with regard to where the underage
smokers obtained cigarettes.
MS. ZIDEK-CHANDLER answered that most [underage smokers] obtain
tobacco products from family and friends. A small amount of
young people actually purchase tobacco products in stores. In
response to Representative Kookesh, she offered to provide the
committee with information from the Centers for Disease Control
and Prevention (CDC).
REPRESENTATIVE CISSNA asked if the unit has experienced any
budget cuts in recent years.
MS. ZIDEK-CHANDLER replied no, but noted that the 20 percent
that was allocated for tobacco prevention and control was just
realized this year. Therefore, she believes that through future
years of funding one will see a significant difference in youth
and adult tobacco use. This funding has allowed the unit to do
far more with media campaigns, statewide community programs, and
cultural changes. The aforementioned is what the unit has found
to be most effective.
REPRESENTATIVE CISSNA related her belief that the unit needs
more people not less. Representative Cissna asked if the unit
has done measures of some of the programs that it has put in
place.
MS. ZIDEK-CHANDLER replied yes and offered to provide copies of
those. She related that the Hellenthal studies have revealed
that a significant decrease in the amount of families that allow
smoking in the home. A lot of change in social norms is being
found.
Number 2797
REPRESENTATIVE SAMUELS surmised that if most of the young people
are obtaining cigarettes from their family, then raising the age
wouldn't seem to do any good.
MS. ZIDEK-CHANDLER remarked, "Evidence does not support that
that would necessarily impact a large number of people."
Therefore, [the unit] is neutral on the legislation.
REPRESENTATIVE KOOKESH inquired as to why the unit would be
neutral on HB 189 when the unit advocates for people to not
smoke.
MS. ZIDEK-CHANDLER explained that [the unit] likes to maintain
its focus in arenas that are known to be effective. Although
there is no financial cost to the legislation, Ms. Zidek-
Chandler suggested that there may be a social cost in that in a
libertarian society more laws and regulations may result in
increased dissatisfaction with the program and result in
negative input.
CHAIR MORGAN inquired as to what would be done to those parents
who purchase cigarettes for their underage children.
REPRESENTATIVE CRAWFORD related that it would probably be a rare
occasion for a parent to purchase cigarettes for their underage
children. He said he understood the reference to family members
to mean the older siblings. Representative Crawford inquired as
to how Ms. Zidek-Chandler could make the earlier statement
regarding a possible backlash and inquired as to the statistics
that would support it.
MS. ZIDEK-CHANDLER said she didn't have statistics and rather
than address that question, Ms. Zidek-Chandler reiterated the
need to maintain focus in arenas that are known to be effective.
REPRESENTATIVE CRAWFORD asked if Ms. Zidek-Chandler believes
that raising the age to 19 would reduce the number of young
people who start smoking and that raising the age to 21 would
reduce that even more. Or, through the backlash, would raising
the legal smoking age to 21 cause more young people to start
smoking.
MS. ZIDEK-CHANDLER acknowledged that everyone agrees that
tobacco is bad for one's health and that Alaska is one of three
states with 19 as the legal smoking age. Furthermore, there are
limited resources and thus the desire is to keep the focus on
what works.
TAPE 03-9, SIDE B
MS. ZIDEK-CHANDLER explained that the backlash statement was
based on meetings during which there have been discussions
related to laws and clean indoor air ordinances. There are some
vocal Alaskans who are very much in opposition to more laws and
restrictions on business, et cetera.
Number 2948
REPRESENTATIVE KOOKESH inquired as to whether the concern should
be how businesses react versus the best interest of Alaska's
youth.
MS. ZIDEK-CHANDLER reiterated that the focus should be on areas
in which it is known there is a serious problem and much work
remains. In response to Representative Kookesh, Ms. Zidek-
Chandler said that the focus is always what's best for Alaska's
youth.
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT agreed with Ms. Zidek-Chandler's earlier
point that there have been some dramatic systemic changes in the
last couple of years and those programs are just beginning to
kick in. Therefore, raising the age may actually confuse the
point with regard to what is really working.
MS. ZIDEK-CHANDLER, in response to Representative Kott, recalled
that Alaska's statutes raised the legal smoking age to 19
perhaps three years ago.
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT asked if there is sufficient data to suggest
that raising the legal smoking age to 19 has reduced underage
smoking or even discontinued underage smoking after the
individual reaches the age of 21.
MS. ZIDEK-CHANDLER responded that she hasn't seen the
statistics.
Number 2819
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT asked if a parent can legally provide
tobacco products to their children under the age of 19.
MS. ZIDEK-CHANDLER answered that her understanding was no.
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT pointed out then that there is a disparity
when comparing tobacco products and alcohol because parents can
provide alcohol, to be consumed in the home, to their underage
children. Representative Kott noted his agreement with
Representative Cissna that perhaps there should be one age at
which an individual is considered an adult.
Number 2755
REPRESENTATIVE CRAWFORD wrapped up by reminding the committee
that statistics show that the number of people starting to smoke
now is less than a few years ago. He said he believes part of
the reason for that is because the legal age was raised to 19,
and therefore raising the legal smoking age to 21 would do more
good and result in less smokers. Representative Crawford
encouraged the committee to join him in his goal to decrease the
number of smokers in Alaska.
CHAIR MORGAN announced that HB 189 would be held over.
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT applauded the sponsor's well-intentioned
efforts, although he felt that it would be premature.
ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business before the committee, the House
Community and Regional Affairs Standing Committee meeting was
adjourned at 9:00 a.m.
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