Legislature(1993 - 1994)
02/10/1994 01:00 PM House CRA
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HOUSE COMMUNITY AND REGIONAL AFFAIRS
STANDING COMMITTEE
February 10, 1994
1:00 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Harley Olberg, Chairman
Representative Con Bunde
Representative Cynthia Toohey
Representative Ed Willis
Representative Jerry Sanders, Vice Chair
Representative Bill Williams
MEMBERS ABSENT
Representative John Davies
OTHER LEGISLATORS PRESENT
Representative Jeannette James
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
HB 352: "An Act relating to the approval of subdivision
plats in areas outside organized boroughs, in
the unorganized borough outside of cities,
and in the third class boroughs; and relating
to the definitions of `street and
`subdivision'."
PASSED FROM COMMITTEE
*HB 398: "An Act relating to conveyance of certain land
to municipalities."
PASSED FROM COMMITTEE
(* First public hearing)
WITNESS REGISTER
EDGAR BLATCHFORD, Commissioner
Department of Community and Regional Affairs
P.O. Box 112100
Juneau, AK 99811
Phone: 465-4700
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on behalf of the Department
of Community and Regional Affairs
regarding the Division of Energy.
REPRESENTATIVE JEANNETTE JAMES
Alaska State Legislature
Capitol Building, Room 501
Juneau, AK 99801-1182
Phone: 465-3743
POSITION STATEMENT: Prime Sponsor of SSHB 352.
JEFF OTTESEN, Chief of Right-of-Way and Environment
Division of Engineering and Operating Standards
Department of Transportation and Public Facilities
3132 Channel Drive
Juneau, AK 99801
Phone: 465-6954
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SSHB 352 and proposed an
amendment.
RON SWANSON, Director
Division of Lands
Department of Natural Resources
P.O. Box 107001
Anchorage, AK 99510-7001
Phone: 762-2692
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported CSHB 398.
JOHN WALSH, Special Assistant to the Commissioner
Department of Community and Regional Affairs
P.O. Box 112100
Juneau, AK 99811-2100
Phone: 465-4890
POSITION STATEMENT: Provided information on CSHB 398.
RICH WILSON, City Administrator
City of St. George
1600 A Street, Suite 103
Anchorage, AK 99501
Phone: 272-8684
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported CSHB 398.
LEE SHARP, Attorney
St. George and Aleutians East Borough
420 L Street, Suite 400
Anchorage, AK 99501
Phone: 276-1969
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported CSHB 398.
GARY WILLIAMS, City Manager
City of Whittier
P.O. Box 608
Whittier, AK 99693
Phone: 422-2337
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported CSHB 398.
PREVIOUS ACTION
BILL: HB 352
SHORT TITLE: SUBDIVISION PLAT APPROVAL:UNORGANIZED BOR
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) JAMES
JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION
01/07/94 2020 (H) PREFILE RELEASED
01/10/94 2020 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)
01/10/94 2020 (H) CRA, RESOURCES, FINANCE
01/21/94 2124 (H) SPONSOR SUBSTITUTE INTRODUCED
REFERRALS
02/10/94 (H) CRA AT 01:00 PM CAPITOL 124
BILL: HB 398
SHORT TITLE: LAND CONVEYED TO & FROM MUNICIPALITIES
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) OLBERG
JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION
01/26/94 2153 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)
01/26/94 2154 (H) COMMUNITY & REGIONAL AFFAIRS,
RESOURCES
02/01/94 (H) CRA AT 01:00 PM CAPITOL 124
02/01/94 (H) MINUTE(CRA)
02/10/94 (H) CRA AT 01:00 PM CAPITOL 124
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 94-7, SIDE A
Number 085
CHAIRMAN HARLEY OLBERG called the meeting to order at 1:08
p.m. He noted for the record Representatives Toohey, Bunde
and Sanders were present and noted for the record a quorum
was present.
Number 112
EDGAR BLATCHFORD, COMMISSIONER, DEPARTMENT OF COMMUNITY AND
REGIONAL AFFAIRS, testified with media present, on the
recent termination of Robert Harris, Director of Division of
Energy. He stated, "For the record, my name is Edgar
Blatchford. I serve as Commissioner of the Department of
Community & Regional Affairs, at the pleasure of the
Governor. Thank you for this opportunity to appear before
you and for allowing me this moment to summarize some of my
thoughts regarding recent developments within the
department, specifically, within the Division of Energy.
"On May 13 of last year, very near the end of the first
session of the 18th Legislature, HCS CSSB 126, passed both
houses and was transmitted to the Governor for signature.
This legislation directed the `dismantling' of the former
Alaska Energy Authority (`AEA') and reconstructed the
general functions of it within the DCRA. Through the
transition process, this operation has been brought aboard
as a full division, equal in standing to the other three
divisions within the department. As such, the highest
ranking employee of the division is a director level.
"Enabling legislation was fairly general with little
expressed legislative intent, other than future operations
be `in-line' with existing administrative functions, as
opposed to quasi-autonomous or autonomous, as had AEA been
in the past decade. Also, it was the expressed intent of
the legislature, as well as a tenant of this administration,
that appropriate functions of the division able to be
contracted out, should be contracted out. Clearly, this
implies, and I fully support, an added element of scrutiny
over projects under contract. As a member of the board of
directors for AEA, AIDEA and the Alaska Housing Finance
Corporation, I am well aware of the responsibility incumbent
upon me as a representative of the public finances,
especially in matters of contract and procurement.
"The first and foremost priority in the transition process
called for full integration of the new division into the
department as a whole. To this end, physical relocation of
former AEA offices into the departments' Anchorage office
was a priority. Secondly, design of an operating
organization structure was critical. Throughout the
process, I insisted that there be `no interruption of
services to rural Alaska.' During this period, I was fully
involved in activity of the RAVEN Commission, responding to
the needs of the rural bulk fuel issue and overall
operations of the department. Deputy Commissioner Geraghty
was assigned to work with the new division director to
develop firm timelines to accomplish our goals.
"It was my intention to produce a division that could
withstand the budget scrutiny of the legislature during the
FY 95 session and as such, an eye to downsizing, while
retaining all relevant aspects of the division's
responsibility was essential. Once the operation is up and
fully functioning, following relocation, I will review
operations and determine if this goal was met. Should the
division be in need of additional personnel or require
modifications to the proposed FY 95 budget, I would express
such concerns with the director and/or the legislature to
make necessary adjustments.
"Recent developments within the division, specifically by
the former division director, have forced this issue
prematurely. I cannot, and will not, tolerate departure
from standard operating procedures when dealing with the
legislative body. Direct communications by any of my
directors, petitioning or bargaining with members of the
legislature for particular budget increments or increases in
personnel are outside such normal operating bounds. Each of
you have staffs, entrusted with specific duties and
responsibilities. Departure from agreed upon conditions,
direct negotiations with other legislators, possibly
compromising your integrity and neutrality, would similarly
mandate immediate action. Within state government there are
approximately 150 director level positions. Just imagine,
the chaos and confusion if each were to negotiate particular
`deals' with the legislative body. I cannot accept this and
experienced staff recognize this is not permissible without
the expressed consent of their commissioner. This flare up
within my department would be but a mere flame in a
firestorm of political chaos.
"I asked for Mr. Harris's resignation based upon this, and
this alone. I respect Mr. Harris's professional integrity
and fully support him in his future endeavors. I did not
ask, nor did I accept, Ms. Linda Thomas's resignation and
her departure is indeed unfortunate. I wish her the very
best in her future endeavors and can only give her the
highest of professional respect.
"Although the downsizing within the Division of Energy has
been met with severe criticism, I withhold comment on
whether or not `we have cut too close to the bone.'
Physical relocation is complete, computer link up is well
under way and I will be reviewing operations to determine,
if as Mr. Harris reports, more staff are needed. Should I
concur with this recommendation, I will address it at that
time. If budgets permit, I will accomplish it within the
current budget and upon the approval of the Governor's
office for authority to hire under the current freeze.
Should such a change require legislative approval or
modification or the proposed FY 95 budget, you will be
apprised of my request at that time.
"I understand the budget dilemmas before the legislature.
This will not be an easy year for any of us or for any other
agency. Cuts to programs will impact all Alaskans in one
fashion or another. The frustration expressed by cuts
within the staff of the Division of Energy, or by
yourselves, will be revisited by all of us should operating
budgets be reduced.
"I stand by my decisions. I serve at the pleasure of the
Governor and unless directed otherwise, will continue to
operate my department in a manner consistent with the
Governor's expressed directive to strengthen local
economies, strengthen local governments and improve fiscal
accountability.
"I welcome the legislature's interest in my department's
operations. I pledge to work closely with the Legislative
Budget & Audit Committee review of the Division of Energy
operations. If there is anything I can do to assist your
staff in this endeavor, please let me know. I look forward
to working with your committee as we proceed to review
proposed FY 95 budgets and with individual members to bring
resolution to issues within your respective districts.
Thank you."
Representative Williams joined the committee at 1:12 p.m.
and Representative Willis arrived at 1:17 p.m.
Number 300
REPRESENTATIVE CYNTHIA TOOHEY asked, "Was any of this
evident when you came before the committee on January 18?"
COMMISSIONER BLATCHFORD answered no.
REPRESENTATIVE TOOHEY continued, "I'd just like to say that
I support your position 100 percent. You are the person in
charge."
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE said, "I don't want to be like Will
Rogers, the only thing I know is what I read in the papers
and I appreciate you coming and sharing your perspective
with us so that we have a more immediate source of
information."
CHAIRMAN OLBERG thanked Commissioner Blatchford and called
an at ease between 1:19 p.m. and 1:24 p.m. He then brought
forth SSHB 352.
Number 332
HB 352 - SUBDIVISION PLAT APPROVAL:UNORGANIZED BOR
REPRESENTATIVE JEANNETTE JAMES, SPONSOR OF SSHB 352, read
her sponsor statement and a supporting letter from the
Department of Natural Resources (DNR) aloud: "This is a
relatively simple bill. Basically, it is to assign a
platting authority for subdivisions that are done outside
organized boroughs where there may or may not be platting or
planning authority in place and even in those municipalities
where they have no planning authority. This would allow the
DNR to be acting as that planning authority. Currently all
plats are filed with DNR but they do no review and they have
no authority to do any review. Currently no legal authority
reviews plats in the unorganized boroughs for compliance
with state Laws. This means that there is not agency review
of access to each lot, the outcome is that there are
landlocked lots created. Currently `paper plats' are
allowed to be recorded without being surveyed, HB 352
corrects this oversight. This legislation requires the
Department of Natural Resources to review plats for
compliance with state law. There are several definitions of
street and subdivision in various statutes, this legislation
defines them as requested by the Department of Natural
Resources. And I have a statement here by the Department of
Natural Resources which I would like to read into the
record. The letter from Harry Noah to myself regarding this
bill. The Department of Natural Resources supports the
Sponsor Substitute for HB 352, which includes the addition
of the definitions of `streets' and `subdivisions'. We also
understand that the Alaska Society of Professional Surveyors
also supports HB 352. They specifically requested that the
bill include the definitions of `streets' and `subdivisions'
as in the sponsor substitute. These two definitions are
needed to establish a common definition of street and
subdivisions for use by all state agencies that are involved
in permitting and approval of subdivisions. The lack of a
common definition has made it difficult for surveyors to
meet the requirements of all state agencies. This bill will
greatly benefit anyone purchasing or having property in the
unorganized borough or third class boroughs. There is more
and more subdivision activity in our outlying areas. The
passage of this bill will ensure that land offered for sale
in these areas meets the applicable laws, reduces the
chances of clouded title, ensures proper location of sale
parcels, and ensures that all subdivided parcels have legal
access. And that is what has prompted me to file this bill
because this summer, I was involved with a plat outside of a
platting area in my district, and I had a little struggle to
be sure that they would include buildable legal access to
these lots. And it wasn't required of them and all they had
to do was file their plat with DNR. About noon today, I did
get a position paper from the Department of Transportation
and they had a concern about it and they also provided me
with amendment number two. I do have an amendment number
one as well."
Number 394
REPRESENTATIVE CON BUNDE said, "The fiscal note, while it's
not substantial, I would like to encourage looking at the
idea that the beneficiaries of these plats pay the cost of
the review by DNR."
REPRESENTATIVE JAMES said, "That's my amendment number one,
and I was aware there was a fiscal note. I never had any
intentions of having a fiscal note. I said this should be
revenue neutral. So I have an amendment that will do that.
To talk about the amount of money, their guesstimate of how
many of these plats they would be doing in a year, how much
the costs would be....It's about $350 per subdivision, per
plat, and that should make us revenue neutral and I will be
getting a new fiscal note as soon as this amendment is
adopted."
Number 414
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE moved to adopt amendment number one.
There were no objections.
REPRESENTATIVE JAMES addressed the second amendment from the
Department of Transportation and Public Facilities saying,
"(They) have concerns because of the rule that they're
working under right now, that's working quite well regarding
right-of-ways and transferring leasehold interest at state
owned areas. At the end of the bill it would add `this does
not apply to plats prepared for the Department of
Transportation and Public Facilities for the purpose of
creating or adjusting right-of-way boundaries or
transferring lease hold at state owned airports.' And this
is to not interfere with what they've got going right now,
and I have no objections to that amendment."
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE said, "I assume when they (DOTPF) are
adjusting right of way boundaries for transferring leases,
they have surveyed that property."
REPRESENTATIVE JAMES said, "I don't think they do anything
without surveys."
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE moved to adopt the second amendment.
There were no objections.
Number 451
JEFF OTTESEN, CHIEF OF RIGHT-OF-WAY AND ENVIRONMENT,
DIVISION OF ENGINEERING AND OPERATING STANDARDS, DEPARTMENT
OF TRANSPORTATION AND PUBLIC FACILITIES, testified in
support of HB 352 saying, "Yes we do survey all right-of-
ways. We do survey and we do create a plat document which
gets recorded and records that line in perpetuity. The
dilemma we have, and we've been having it with the boroughs
too, is that a subdivision is normally a voluntary activity
on the part of the land owner and when we're involved in
condemnation, we're basically trying to coerce somebody to
sign a subdivision that they object to and we're having to
go to court to actually acquire the property and we're put
in a situation where you can't survey the property, you
can't get on it, you can't get them to agree to sign a
document that conveys a document, when their very objection
is they don't want to do this. So we simply can't proceed
with condemnation and acquire the property which has been
surveyed and platted in advance. We have to acquire the
property with the court's permission and then go ahead and
do the survey and do the recording. A number of the
boroughs, as they came out with their individual platting
ordinances were running us through the same problem."
Number 481
REPRESENTATIVE TOOHEY moved that HB 352 be moved out of
committee as amended with individual recommendations. There
were no objections.
CHAIRMAN OLBERG clarified that there would be a new zero
fiscal note attached to HB 352, which will become a
committee substitute when the amendments are incorporated.
There was a brief at ease from 1:35 p.m. until 1:37 p.m.
CHAIRMAN OLBERG brought forth HB 398.
HB 398 - LAND CONVEYED TO & FROM MUNICIPALITIES
Number 499
RON SWANSON, DIRECTOR, DIVISION OF LANDS, DEPARTMENT OF
NATURAL RESOURCES, stated, "When I last testified, we were
dealing with the sponsor substitute and I raised several
concerns. Following that particular hearing I got together
with representatives of the City of Whittier, Aleutians East
Borough, and (the Department of) Community and Regional
Affairs (DCRA), to address those concerns and we did come to
agreement with basically a different bill, which now I think
is embodied in the committee substitute for HB 398. It does
read a little bit different than what you had before."
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE moved that the draft committee
substitute be brought before the committee. There were no
objections.
MR. SWANSON continued, "Section two has the new rewrite of
the conveyance of tide and submerged lands to various
municipalities. One concern I think DCRA will bring up is
the definition of municipalities is not included in this
legislation, but we have expanded the intent here to include
all municipalities including boroughs, which is not in the
original legislation. What we agreed to do is limit the
conveyances to municipalities, to areas that are either
developed for waterfront development or suitable for
waterfront development. This will provide local control of
particular developments, (and) will limit the liability to
the state because the state will no longer be the landowner.
It will become the municipality's concern. We do have a
land classification called waterfront development, which
would include what it actually says is `waterfront
development for a variety of activities'. In order to make
the conveyance, the use of the land could not reasonably
interfere with navigation or public access. It has to be
classified waterfront development or suitable for waterfront
development and be consistent with the land use plan either
adopted by the state, local municipality, or a coastal
policy counsel. And the land would be required for the
accomplishment of an improvement or development, and
approved by the municipality. The application by a
municipality must go through a finding by the director that
it is suitable for those particular activities, and at that
point we also inserted a step in the process
where...(without patent transference) once we made a finding
that it was in the best interest of the state to convey a
particular parcel of land for waterfront development, we
would make then a conveyance to the municipality where they
could then start issuing leases on that particular property,
without waiting for the survey. If they did want patent
they would, of course, have to complete the survey and if
there are any conflicts in property rights, of course, they
would have to conduct the survey. This would get
development properties on line much quicker than what would
otherwise be available."
Number 544
CHAIRMAN OLBERG asked, "You're saying now that any
municipality can apply for their tidelands?"
RON SWANSON confirmed that and said, "...last changes that
we made were that any conveyance under this legislation
would require access to and along easements to be reserved
that are currently required in AS 38.05.127, and that any
land would be subject to the public trust, and if anybody
thought the public trust was being violated you could, of
course, go to court immediately. And lastly, any
municipality that dissolves, the land would automatically
revert back to the state. The last thing which I forgot to
mention earlier is, this particular bill would not increase
or diminish a municipality's land entitlement under AS
29.65, but in the same light, any acreage conveyed would not
be charged against that particular entitlement. I expect
the acreage to be fairly small, but very important though
for revenue generation for municipalities."
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE said, "You mentioned a concern about
defining a municipality. Do you think we ought to address
that concern?"
MR. SWANSON deferred that questions to DCRA.
Number 574
JOHN WALSH, SPECIAL ASSISTANT, DCRA, testified, "In work
drafts and discussions, we had discussed the expansion of
this bill from strictly municipalities to include boroughs,
so if we're all using the term municipality loosely...it one
day meant just cities, first and second class cities. If
you would like to expand that definition, I think it would
be prudent to include that in the language here. For
purposes of clarification, I think it would be in your best
interests to precisely define exactly what you mean by
municipality. The previous draft had a different
interpretation of that same phrase."
CHAIRMAN OLBERG asked, "Does your department have a
definition of municipality that includes all municipalities
including boroughs?"
MR. WALSH proceeded, "I think for the purpose of this
section...AS 38.05.825, municipality means a home rule,
first or second class city and a home rule first, second or
third class borough and a unified municipality. So you
could insert that, to this language and it would suffice for
the purpose of this chapter."
CHAIRMAN OLBERG said, "I think we'll just do that..." and
asked for a motion.
Number 595
REPRESENTATIVE TOOHEY moved that DCRA's definition be
incorporated into CSHB 398 as an amendment and be adopted.
There were no objections.
MR. WALSH cautioned the committee, "The burden is going to
be at the director or the commissioner level of DNR to
restrict that, and there's going to be intense pressure upon
that department, and some of these boroughs are quite armed
with legal staff and whatnot, and the pressure upon the
state agency and the attorney general's office could be
overwhelmed. So I would ask you to consider it in the
intent language, either now or on the floor, what your
express intent is with respect to those phrases, above and
beyond the language in the bill."
MR. SWANSON said, "I think we've captured the thought of the
land classified for waterfront development. That's very
clearly laid out in regulation and it also has to be
consistent with the land use plan or comprehensive plan. So
I think it goes through very exhaustive public process with
what is truly waterfront development. It's not just a
theory."
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE asked, "This would not subtract from
the acreage that the municipality is allowed and my reaction
is why not, as that may encourage more careful consideration
of possible selections."
MR. SWANSON said, "That was my original position, that it
would be charged against entitlement. There were some valid
concerns raised by some of the municipalities of their
limited entitlement. They need some uplands, some
tidelands, the two kind of come together...because we
restricted it down to actual waterfront development. Most
of that acreage is going to be pretty minimal."
Number 636
RICH WILSON, CITY ADMINISTRATOR, CITY OF ST. GEORGE,
testified via teleconference in support of CSHB 398, "I'm
pleased to see (this) is being addressed very adequately.
For many years, we've been working in our city to obtain
leases and for various reasons, no fault intended on any
part, but it just takes a long time. As such, it's limiting
the ability of the public body at the municipal level to
exercise their responsibilities. I'm pleased that the DNR
and the municipalities proposing this and legislators
proposing this are in agreement on all those key
provisions."
CHAIRMAN OLBERG asked, "If a municipality receives a land
entitlement that adjoins the ocean, does that end at the
mean high tide mark. Where is the boundary in the land
entitlement now?"
MR. SWANSON said, "It's at mean high tide."
CHAIRMAN OLBERG said, "When we talk about tidelands, we are
talking about land that's underwater half the time perhaps."
MR. SWANSON said, "The definition of tideland is the line
between mean high tide and mean low tide and submerged lands
means...underneath saltwater all the time."
LEE SHARP, ATTORNEY, ST. GEORGE AND ALEUTIANS EAST BOROUGH,
via teleconference, testified, "In municipal law,
municipality means all municipalities and while it's not
defined in Title 38, it is defined in Title 29. AS
29.71.800 (13), that encompasses every kind of municipality
in Alaska, but the intent was certainly that it include all
municipalities and boroughs whether home rule or general
law. As for the concern about all the tidelands within
boroughs, I think about all that means is that boroughs have
more tidelands to select from than you would expect in the
cities, but it doesn't mean they're going to get anymore
because the provision in here...is that tidelands be
required for a project or an improvement. I don't think
that we should be concerned that the boroughs are going to
be able to abuse this. As to charging against entitlement,
some cities at this point have no entitlement whatsoever;
these lands are going to come to the municipalities with
some restrictions on them that are not going to be put on
lands that they select under their general land entitlement.
They don't have to be classified for a particular use. So
if you charge it against that, then maybe you ought to give
them the tidelands without any restrictions on them, but we
know there have to be restrictions on them, so these really
aren't of the same nature."
TAPE 94-7, SIDE B
Number 015
REPRESENTATIVE TOOHEY asked, "This fiscal note, does that
reflect the transfer of the lands to the municipalities for
the surveying, and can that be absorbed by the developer."
MR. SWANSON said, "That fiscal note was based on the
original bill, the sponsor substitute, when I was required
to convey all tidelands. Under this particular bill (CSHB
398), we will come in with a zero fiscal note because the
people that I am now administering the leases with, I can
just turn around and convey the land to the municipalities
instead of having to administer leases all the time."
There was discussion regarding earthquakes.
Number 052
GARY WILLIAMS, CITY MANAGER, WHITTIER, via teleconference,
testified, "I'd like to compliment all those who've been
involved in the production of the current committee
substitute. I believe it meets all the criterion for a good
piece of legislation, because it's good policy to create
legislation which solves problems and creates opportunities
for rural public interest. This bill provides potential
economic opportunities for all sixteen boroughs in the
state, for at least one first class city and by my count, 49
second class cities. The conveyance of tide and submerged
lands under this bill will, in my view, not result in
wholesale demand for conveyances and place unreasonable
demands on the ability of DNR to process conveyances. I
urge a do pass on this legislation."
REPRESENTATIVE ED WILLIS asked about the significance of the
repealer on CSHB 398.
CHAIRMAN OLBERG said, "That is the paragraph 11 of section
1, (which says) `is repealed on January 1, 1998,' they have
until then to get that done and then that expires."
Number 145
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE moved to pass CSHB 398 as amended out
of committee on individual recommendations with a zero
fiscal note. There were no objections.
Number 175
ADJOURNMENT
CHAIRMAN OLBERG adjourned the meeting at 2:03 p.m.
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