Legislature(1993 - 1994)
03/09/1993 01:00 PM House CRA
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HOUSE COMMUNITY AND REGIONAL AFFAIRS
STANDING COMMITTEE
March 9, 1993
1:00 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Harley Olberg, Chairman
Representative Con Bunde
Representative John Davies
Representative Cynthia Toohey
Representative Ed Willis
Representative Bill Williams
MEMBERS ABSENT
Representative Jerry Sanders, Vice-Chairman
OTHER HOUSE MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Jerry Mackie
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
HB 143: "An Act relating to the distribution of the
revenue obtained from imposition of the state tax
on motor fuel used in watercraft of all
descriptions; and providing for an effective
date."
MOVED OUT OF COMMITTEE WITH A DO PASS
RECOMMENDATION
AS CSSSHB 143
*HB 166: "An Act relating to enhanced 911 emergency
reporting systems; and providing for an effective
date."
CSHB 166 PLACED IN SUBCOMMITTEE OF REPRESENTATIVES
DAVIES AND BUNDE
(* first public hearing)
WITNESS REGISTER
Representative Con Bunde
State Capitol, Room 112
Juneau, Alaska 99811-1182
Phone: 465-4843
POSITION STATEMENT: Prime Sponsor, HB 166; Introduced CSHB
166
Robby Benson, City Clerk/Treasurer
Delta Junction
P.O. Box 1173
Delta Junction, AK 99737
Phone: 895-4656
POSITION STATEMENT: Asked questions related to HB 166
Kevin O'Leary, Chief of Police
Anchorage Police Department
4501 Bragaw
Anchorage, AK 99508
Phone: 786-8500
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported HB 166
Bonnie Golden, Administrative Assistant to Mayor Gilman
Kenai Peninsula Borough
144 N. Binkley
Soldotna, AK 99669
Phone: 262-5515
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported CSHB 166
Mark S. Johnson, Chief
Emergency Medical Services Section
Department of Health and Social Services
P.O. Box 110616
Juneau, AK 99811-0616
Phone: 465-3027
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported HB 166
Representative Jerry Mackie
Court Building, Room 602
Juneau, Alaska 99811-1182
Phone: 465-4925
POSITION STATEMENT: Gave suggestions regarding HB 166; Prime
Sponsor, HB 143
Jud Fager, Assemblyman and Deputy Mayor
City of Sitka
206 1/2 Lakeview Drive
Sitka, AK 99835
Phone: 747-3917
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported HB 143
Larry Meyers, Director
Income and Excise Audit Division
Department of Revenue
P.O. Box 110420
Juneau, AK 99811
Phone: 465-2320
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified neutrally on HB 143
Dan Keck, Mayor
City of Sitka
203 Harbor Drive
Sitka, AK 99835
Phone: 747-8020
POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on HB 143
PREVIOUS ACTION
BILL: HB 143
SHORT TITLE: MARINE FUEL TAX REVENUE SHARING
BILL VERSION: SSHB 143
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) MACKIE,Grussendorf
TITLE: "An Act relating to the distribution of the revenue
obtained from imposition of the state tax on motor fuel used
in watercraft of all descriptions; and providing for an
effective date."
JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION
02/10/93 292 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)
02/10/93 292 (H) CRA, TRANSPORTATION, FINANCE
02/22/93 410 (H) SPONSOR SUBSTITUTE INTRODUCED-
REFERRALS
02/22/93 410 (H) CRA, TRANSPORTATION, FINANCE
03/02/93 (H) CRA AT 01:00 PM CAPITOL 124
03/02/93 (H) MINUTE(CRA)
03/09/93 (H) CRA AT 01:00 PM CAPITOL 124
BILL: HB 166
SHORT TITLE: ENHANCED 911 SYSTEMS
BILL VERSION:
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) BUNDE
TITLE: "An Act relating to enhanced 911 emergency reporting
systems; and providing for an effective date."
JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION
02/18/93 381 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)
02/18/93 381 (H) CRA, FINANCE
03/09/93 (H) CRA AT 01:00 PM CAPITOL 124
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 93-11, SIDE A
Number 000
CHAIRMAN HARLEY OLBERG called the meeting to order at 1:05
p.m., and noted Representatives Bunde, Toohey, Davies and
Willis were present.
HB 166: ENHANCED 911 SYSTEMS
Number 020
REPRESENTATIVE CON BUNDE, PRIME SPONSOR OF HB 166,
testified, "In my district, the municipality of Anchorage
was introducing this enhanced 911 service which basically is
the emergency number with whistles and bells attached so
that it allows a quicker response of the appropriate
emergency service, whichever you might require. ...The
problem was that this wasn't going to be available to all
areas of the municipality, my district particularly, and
even more startling to me is that the 911 number, as far as
police emergency, would be withdrawn."
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE continued, "Really all it (HB 166) does
is requires a municipality provide this enhanced 911 service
to all people within its boundaries and allows the
municipality to collect a fee for this service because the
enhancement does cost more than the other. The existing 911
service is quite an expensive service... In my district
alone, for one year, it was nearly $50,000. So it is
currently not free. The new system would allow the
subscriber to pay for this service... Fifty cents a month in
some municipalities, and the smaller ones, 75 cents a
month."
Number 104
ROBBY BENSON, CITY CLERK/TREASURER, DELTA JUNCTION, via
teleconference asked if the fees could be used for
dispatcher wages and if the surcharge would be listed
separately on telephone bills.
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE said, "It is not my intent that it
would be used for dispatcher wages... It is my belief it
would be shown as a separate surcharge on the bill, but I'd
have to defer that to someone who knows municipalities and
utilities better than I..."
MS. BENSON asked, "Delta (Junction) presently is installing
the 911 enhanced system, so will this surcharge be available
to us as well?"
Number 139
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE said, "The surcharge will be available
wherever the enhanced 911 is installed, yes." Regarding
dispatcher wages, he added, "That was not the way I read the
bill (HB 166), however, I've been informed that others might
look at that differently."
MS. BENSON asked if ambulance runs were "private records"
and "who is privy to those 911 calls".
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE replied, "They're certainly not
available to the general public, but for the people that
it's part of their duty or function, and the way I read
medical records, that doesn't include the ambulance runs,
no."
Number 186
REPRESENTATIVE CYNTHIA TOOHEY MOVED that the committee adopt
the working draft as a committee substitute (CS) for HB 166.
Without objections, CSHB 166 was ADOPTED.
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE addressed the CS, "The original HB 166
was under Title 42, which is Public Utilities, instead of
Title 29, Municipal Government, and certainly not a function
of APUC (Alaska Public Utilities Commission) to participate
in the collection of fees for 911. The CS for HB 166 is to
place the legislation in the statutes where it more rightly
belongs."
Number 198
KEVIN O'LEARY, CHIEF OF POLICE, ANCHORAGE, testified via
teleconference in support of HB 166 saying, "I think it's a
welcome addition to the state of Alaska and will allow
communities to establish enhanced 911 system that they are
able to pay for."
Number 212
REPRESENTATIVE JOHN DAVIES asked, "In the Anchorage
municipality, have you tried to establish enhanced 911
systems and can't do it for one statutory reason or
another?"
MR. O'LEARY said, "We have an enhanced system now that is
somewhat old and is in need of being replaced." He also
indicated that HB 166 provides for "collection of necessary
revenues to support the acquisition of the equipment" and
"secondarily, the portion of the legislation that refers to
'community' is also something that we cannot provide for
ourselves on a local level, it has to be enacted on a state
level."
Number 230
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES asked if the amount of surcharge (50
cents) "would be adequate for Anchorage."
MR. O'LEARY said, "No, it will not be adequate, that
surcharge will approximately raise 300,000 dollars in
revenue. The current cost for operations of our dispatch
center is a little over four million dollars of which 1.9
million dollars is applied strictly to 911 operations."
Number 244
BONNIE GOLDEN, ADMINISTRATIVE ASSISTANT TO MAYOR GILMAN,
KENAI PENINSULA BOROUGH, read the Mayor's position paper
submitted to the committee members which supports CSHB 166.
(A copy of this position paper may be found in the House
Community and Regional Affairs Committee Room, Capitol Room
110, and after the adjournment of the second session of the
18th Alaska State Legislature, in the Legislative Reference
Library.)
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES asked, "Specifically, what does this
bill (HB 166) allow you to do that they can't do know, how
does this help them?"
MS. GOLDEN replied, "The way that I understand it, it allows
us to charge for the 911 services..."
Number 298
MARK JOHNSON, CHIEF, EMERGENCY MEDICAL SERVICES SECTION,
DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND SOCIAL SERVICES, testified, "We
support the bill (HB 166). ...My only comment is, as far as
emergency medical services, AS 29.35.020 allows for
extraterritorial jurisdiction for certain services,
including emergency medical services, and in the event that
a municipality may choose, and I believe they do this by
ordinance to provide service in a surrounding area, I would
suggest the wording be flexible enough to allow that for the
enhanced 911 service area."
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE asked, "Do you envision that there
would be parts of the borough where you would serve from one
borough to the next?"
MR. JOHNSON said, "I'm not sure how many municipalities
would want to include this in their enhanced 911 system, but
I do believe they ought to have that option. The Delta
Junction ambulance, for example, picks up patients up and
down the highway, and whether or not they and their local
telephone exchange would want to accommodate enhanced 911
further out would be up to them..."
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE said, "I was just trying to think if
there would be a municipality on a boundary where they might
want to extend their service into another borough..."
Number 342
CHAIRMAN OLBERG said, "In Delta Junction, for example, the
City of Delta Junction operates the service but it covers a
wide area within the unorganized borough, in fact."
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE confirmed, "It would still then be
available to all people in that borough or unorganized
borough."
CHAIRMAN OLBERG added, "The unorganized borough is a
borough."
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES said, "I would support this
suggestion, I think the same situation is true for...
Fairbanks. ...I think there are situations here where this
might preclude that so I would support some kind of friendly
amendment."
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE replied, "I'm not opposed to that
idea."
Number 375
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE said, "... I don't have any hesitation
of spreading it out where a city, municipality or borough
could then provide service as was suggested, as otherwise
under [AS] 29.35.020..."
CHAIRMAN OLBERG suggested possible amendments be produced.
Number 389
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES asked, "Where it says 'the area may be
all of a city', does that mean that the area may not be part
of a city? Is that the intent of this language?"
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE said, "That is very much the intent of
this statute because my particular district was being left
out and access to 911 should be expanded and not curtailed."
Number 400
REPRESENTATIVE JERRY MACKIE offered, "Instead of an
amendment... normally, you would explain to Legislative
Legal what you're trying to accomplish and they'll come up
with the language. I think it would be important to make
sure that it was done by legal..."
CHAIRMAN OLBERG asked Representative Bunde how he wanted to
pursue the amendments.
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE said, "I guess I would like to possibly
move this bill (HB 166) along with your intent to modify
that particular phrase to (include) 'or otherwise provided
for in AS 29.35.020'."
CHAIRMAN OLBERG suggested a "conceptual amendment" that
accompanies the bill (HB 166) so the bill "can begin its
journey to its next committee of referral and save a little
time that way."
Number 425
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES suggested some consideration be given
to cellular phone "possibilities."
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE asked for specific suggestions
regarding cellular phones for CSHB 166.
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES volunteered to work "on a very small
subcommittee to solve this problem."
CHAIRMAN OLBERG said, "I love volunteers," and added, "We'll
hear it again Thursday..."
Number 460
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES reiterated, "Why is it necessary to do
this? Why can't the municipalities do this on their own as
it is? And the second one: Why are we limiting the
population of the municipality of Anchorage to raise
revenues to only 50 cents when everybody else gets the
opportunity for the 75 (cents)."
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE said, "I worked with people in the
municipality and they felt this was a fair way to approach
it. There is a responsibility, and I may be putting words
in their mouths, this is my perception, of municipalities
providing services and there's also then an opportunity for
people to pay in some measure for their services. As you
might imagine you have lots of fires, your share of the fire
department budget doesn't go up even though you're a greater
demand of the service than someone who has no fires. And to
your first question, municipalities did not feel they were
able to institute this service, particularly from boundary
to boundary, without this additional legislation."
CHAIRMAN OLBERG suggested the details be sorted out in a
subcommittee comprised of Representatives Bunde and Davies.
Number 490
Chairman Olberg called an at ease at 1:32 p.m.
HB 143: MARINE FUEL TAX REVENUE SHARING
Chairman Olberg reconvened the meeting at 1:36 p.m. with
Representative Williams joining the committee, and SSHB 143
was brought forth.
REPRESENTATIVE TOOHEY MOVED that the committee substitute
for the sponsor substitute for HB 143 (CRA) (CSSSHB 143
(CRA)) be adopted. Without objections, IT WAS SO ORDERED.
Number 521
REPRESENTATIVE MACKIE, PRIME SPONSOR OF HB 143, testified
addressing a proposed amendment to CSSSHB 143, "It was
suggested by Representative Davies in the last meeting that
...the committee wanted to have language in there that the
money collected had to be used for harbor facilities, so if
I can direct your attention to the amendment which is
offered by [Jack] Chenoweth [Legislative Legal Counsel]..."
He then described the amendment. (A copy of this amendment
may be found in the House Community and Regional Affairs
Committee Room, Capitol 110, and after the adjournment of
the second session of the 18th Alaska State Legislature, in
the Legislative Reference Library.)
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES MOVED that the AMENDMENT be ADOPTED by
the committee. Without objections, IT WAS SO ORDERED.
Number 540
REPRESENTATIVE MACKIE referred to a letter from the City of
Craig which specified the losses they incur. He said, "They
expect for FY 93 to generate 61,000 dollars in revenues,
they are anticipating the expenditures for (FY) 1993 to be
82,000 (dollars) therefore being 20,000 dollars short...
The expenditures are expected to be about 37,000 dollars
more to the city in the next year. Based on last year's
(1992) taxes that were collected there, the City would
expect to receive about 20,000 dollars from that tax money
so there would still be a void..."
REPRESENTATIVE MACKIE continued, "Depending on each
municipality or each location with harbor facilities, they
would need to determine themselves whether or not it was in
their best interest to assume control of any of these
harbors. This would only serve as an incentive for some of
them to do it."
Number 572
JUD FAGER, ASSEMBLYMAN AND DEPUTY MAYOR, CITY AND BOROUGH OF
SITKA, testified via teleconference in support of HB 143
saying, "Marine fuel tax...was originated by the state to
help finance harbors and infrastructure, but the state's
position of a relinquishing maintenance and infrastructure
for harbors... With the state's declining revenues and
desire to cut government spending... Who better to run the
harbors than the local communities?"
Number 593
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE asked Larry Meyers, Director of the
Income and Excise Audit Division, Department of Revenue, "Do
you see that this would erode any of the money available?"
LARRY MEYERS, DIRECTOR, INCOME AND EXCISE AUDIT DIVISION,
DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE, replied, "This will not erode. There
is a basic concern that we have as far as the administration
and collection. ...Currently we only track at the wholesale
level and the bill (HB 143) as presented would attempt to
trace the sale of fuel back to the individual locality, and
as the forms are now set up and the way we track, we're not
capable of doing this."
CHAIRMAN OLBERG asked at what point was the fuel tax being
charged.
MR. MEYERS said, "At the wholesaler level. The first time
that it's purchased or transferred coming in within the
state."
CHAIRMAN OLBERG asked, "A fuel dealer in Craig does not
collect any fuel taxes?"
REPRESENTATIVE TOOHEY asked, "Do you support this bill (HB
143)?"
MR. MEYERS said, "Right now we're in a neutral position."
REPRESENTATIVE TOOHEY said, "From what you say, you're
losing thousands of dollars by not being able to track the
fuel, is that correct?"
MR. MEYERS said, "My concern here is trying to make sure we
would allocate the amount that was used in that particular
area. I'm saying we're not capable of tracking it..."
CHAIRMAN OLBERG said, "It seems it would be relatively
simple, to determine how many gallons of fuel were sold in
Craig, Alaska, for example."
Number 654
REPRESENTATIVE MACKIE said, "I was unaware that that's how
it operates... I cannot believe that it would be very hard
for Fuel Company X to fill out a form that says I collected
100,000 dollars in fuel tax this year within the City of
Craig. ...If we're not asking them to do that, if we're not
collecting the money as it's being sold...then obviously, we
are losing out on a considerable amount of money."
CHAIRMAN OLBERG said, "I wonder if, in fact, the tax you're
paying when you buy fuel kind of travels up the line to some
point where the [Department of] Revenue is keeping track of
the fuel at one end of the system or the other."
REPRESENTATIVE MACKIE interjected, "Perhaps they don't jive,
either."
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE said, "It makes little difference where
the tax is actually paid... All you really need to know is
how much is that tax and how many gallons were pumped at
that particular locale."
Number 680
REPRESENTATIVE MACKIE said, "If this was straightened out
somehow, this bill (HB 143) might be a considerable revenue
enhancer to the state." He added, "Why wouldn't the
Department of Revenue ask each fuel company that does
business in the state to submit to them a report as to how
many actual gallons of marine fuel they sold and how many
tax dollars they collected on that fuel. If they're
required to charge the tax, they certainly ought to be
required to report that to you, community by community or
fuel company by fuel company..."
MR. MEYERS replied, "The tax is charged at the wholesale
level at that one time, that is the reporting requirements.
Then it can be moved down the line to dealer by dealer. It
is passed with the tax on. ...So you, as the ultimate
consumer, you have that additional tax you're paying for,
but it's just pulling back up the line...we are not
concerned who the ultimate consumer is."
TAPE 93-11, SIDE B
Number 000
CHAIRMAN OLBERG said, "All we need to know is how many
gallons of fuel were sold in that city that year to do the
arithmetic."
MR. MEYERS said, "That would be a start, yes. ...We're not
set up to track that..."
REPRESENTATIVE MACKIE asked, "Why wouldn't the Department
[of Revenue] be able to change how they do it a little bit
and just require any fuel retailer to submit their report...
It seems that would be a more accurate, more efficient way
to handle the accounting practices."
Number 049
MR. MEYERS replied, "In collecting taxes, it has been our
experience that if you try to get at the first source when
it comes into the state rather than when it filters down, it
makes our reporting requirements, ability to monitor, a lot
easier if we collect it the first time it comes in the
state. As it is right now, motor fuel distributors are
required to file on a monthly basis. If we were to go down
another level, we would probably increase our paperwork
three, four, five-fold times. Each time we rely on someone
further on down the stream to report, we have less and less
chance of catching them or making sure that there's
compliance."
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE pointed out there were a limited number
of municipal-owned docks in Alaska and "it's in the
municipality's interest" to do any additional accounting.
CHAIRMAN OLBERG said, "That's a good point...put the burden
of providing the necessary information on the municipality
that's going to actually receive the benefit. ...I suspect
there's even a tax structure already in place through sales
taxes..." He also pointed out the Department of Revenue's
fiscal note. (A copy of this fiscal note may be found in
the House Community and Regional Affairs Committee Room,
Capitol Room 110, and after the adjournment of the second
session of the 18th Alaska State Legislature, in the
Legislative Reference Library.)
Number 117
MR. MEYERS responded to the $40,000 contractual amount on
the fiscal note, "It was our intentions in the first year,
on page 3 of the fiscal note, would be for a survey to
determine how many linear feet of the wharfage. Someone
would have to go out there and physically measure this..."
REPRESENTATIVE BILL WILLIAMS said, "You'd think you have
that information now."
CHAIRMAN OLBERG said, "In every case we're talking about a
facility that used to be a state facility and is now a city
facility. You would think that those figures are on file
somewhere from when the dock was built... I think we just
saved you 40,000 bucks here."
REPRESENTATIVE MACKIE pointed out that on the Department of
Transportation's (DOT) list of harbors provided to the
committee members, this information had been furnished. (A
copy of this fiscal note may be found in the House Community
and Regional Affairs Committee Room, Capitol Room 110, and
after the adjournment of the second session of the 18th
Alaska State Legislature, in the Legislative Reference
Library.) "DOT owns these facilities now, they know how
many linear feet of dock they have on all these things," he
said.
Number 165
CHAIRMAN OLBERG said, "Perhaps the fiscal note is erring on
the side of not wanting to be too small, possibly, because
some of the information may in fact be on file. The cities
could certainly bear the burden of collecting the tax
information..."
REPRESENTATIVE MACKIE said, "These communities that are
presently affected by it certainly should make sure that the
Department of Revenue has the information about how many
feet. Perhaps the Department of Revenue wasn't aware that
this information was available."
REPRESENTATIVE WILLIAMS asked if another amendment was
needed.
REPRESENTATIVE MACKIE said, "Because this is state statute,
we have to hold one of our agencies responsible, which is
the Department of Revenue. However, Revenue can have a
regulation. You don't legislate regulations. They can have
a regulation that specifies that the municipality shall
provide the Department of Revenue with the footage in their
community and the information before Revenue cuts them a
check... I think it would be somewhat unusual to mandate
that responsibility to a municipality when we're talking
about state general funds..."
Number 245
DAN KECK, MAYOR, SITKA, via teleconference testified, "It's
interesting to listen to your concerns of how this would be
collected in Sitka. I can't see that this is a problem. We
collect sales tax on all fuel that is sold now. So we can
go back and check... So if we have this in our duties, we
can easily collect the fuel tax."
MR. FAGER added, via teleconference, "There's no way to do
this on a wholesale level... All the tax would have to be
collected at the retail level because that's the only way we
would get accurate records. There are several ways, you
could repeal the law as it is and we make it a local tax, if
you can't figure out how to do it."
REPRESENTATIVE MACKIE compared the forced receipts'
legislation of several years ago which was "done by
regulation" and was working well.
Number 291
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE made a MOTION to MOVE CSSSHB 143, as
amended, out of committee with individual recommendations.
Without objections, IT WAS SO ORDERED.
ADJOURNMENT
CHAIRMAN OLBERG adjourned the meeting at 2:10 p.m.
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