Legislature(1993 - 1994)

03/10/1994 01:15 PM CRA

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
              HOUSE COMMUNITY AND REGIONAL AFFAIRS                             
                       STANDING COMMITTEE                                      
                         March 10, 1994                                        
                            1:15 p.m.                                          
  MEMBERS PRESENT                                                              
  Representative Harley Olberg, Chairman                                       
  Representative Jerry Sanders, Vice Chair                                     
  Representative Con Bunde                                                     
  Representative Cynthia Toohey                                                
  Representative Ed Willis                                                     
  Representative John Davies                                                   
  Representative Bill Williams                                                 
  MEMBERS ABSENT                                                               
  COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                           
  SB 33:    "An Act relating to emergency planning and                         
            response; transferring the Hazardous Substance                     
            Spill Technology Review Council to the Department                  
            of Environmental Conservation; transferring the                    
            Alaska State Emergency Response Commission,                        
            including its duty to designate local emergency                    
            planning districts and appoint local emergency                     
            planning committees, to the Department of Military                 
            and Veterans' Affairs; and eliminating a                           
            requirement that the state and regional oil                        
            discharge prevention and contingency plans be                      
            revised annually."                                                 
            PASSED FROM COMMITTEE WITH INDIVIDUAL                              
  *HB 467:  "An Act relating to housing programs of the Alaska                 
            Housing Finance Corporation and of regional                        
            housing authorities, and permitting regional                       
            housing authorities to make, originate, and                        
            service loans for the purchase and development of                  
            residential housing in the state's small                           
            NOT HEARD                                                          
  WITNESS REGISTER                                                             
  ANNETTE KREITZER, Legislative Staff                                          
  Senator Loren Leman                                                          
  Capitol Building, Room 113                                                   
  Juneau, AK  99801-1182                                                       
  Phone: 465-2095                                                              
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Staff to Senator Loren Leman, Prime                     
                       Sponsor of SB 33                                        
  MIKE CONWAY, Director                                                        
  Division of Spill Prevention and Response                                    
  Department of Environmental Conservation                                     
  410 Willoughby Avenue, Suite 302                                             
  Juneau, AK  99801-1795                                                       
  Phone: 465-5260                                                              
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Supported CSSB 33                                       
  ERVIN PAUL MARTIN, Director                                                  
  Alaska Division of Emergency Services                                        
  Department of Military and Veterans Affairs                                  
  P.O. Box 5750                                                                
  Fort Richardson, AK  99505-0750                                              
  Phone: 428-7000                                                              
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Supported CSSB 33                                       
  JIM STUDLEY                                                                  
  P.O. Box 946                                                                 
  Haines, AK  99827                                                            
  Phone: 766-3377                                                              
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Supported CSSB 33                                       
  ROCKY ANSELL                                                                 
  Copper River LEPC                                                            
  P.O. Box 217                                                                 
  Copper Center, AK  99573                                                     
  Phone: 822-3671                                                              
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Supported CSSB 33                                       
  KEN ROBERSTON                                                                
  Copper River LEPC                                                            
  P.O. Box 375                                                                 
  Glennallen, AK  99588                                                        
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Supported CSSB 33                                       
  DR. ERNIE MELOCHE                                                            
  Alaska LEPC Association                                                      
  P.O. Box 6058                                                                
  Ketchikan, AK  99901                                                         
  Phone: 247-6058                                                              
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Supported CSSB 33                                       
  STEVEN O'CONNOR                                                              
  Kenai Peninsula LEPC                                                         
  231 S. Binkley                                                               
  Soldotna, AK  99669                                                          
  Phone: 262-4792                                                              
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Supported CSSB 33                                       
  VERNON KUGZRUK                                                               
  P.O. Box 580                                                                 
  Teller, AK  99778                                                            
  Phone: 642-3401                                                              
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Supported CSSB 33 and proposed                          
  BILL SHECHTER                                                                
  Alaska Fire Chiefs                                                           
  P.O. Box 71267                                                               
  Fairbanks, AK  99707                                                         
  Phone: 459-1219                                                              
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Supported CSSB 33 and proposed an                       
  STEVEN PORTER                                                                
  10420 Lone Tree Drive                                                        
  Anchorage, AK  99516                                                         
  Phone: 265-6269                                                              
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Supported CSSB 33 and proposed an                       
  BOB STEWART                                                                  
  P.O. Box 196650                                                              
  Anchorage, AK  99519                                                         
  Phone: 267-4904                                                              
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Supported CSSB 33                                       
  PREVIOUS ACTION                                                              
  BILL:  SB  33                                                                
  SPONSOR(S): SENATOR(S) LEMAN                                                 
  JRN-DATE     JRN-PG               ACTION                                     
  01/11/93        23    (S)   PREFILE RELEASED  1/4/93                         
  01/11/93        24    (S)   READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)                  
  01/11/93        24    (S)   CRA, STA, FINANCE                                
  02/23/93              (S)   CRA AT 9:00 AM BUTROVICH RM 205                  
  02/24/93       460    (S)   CRA RPT CS 2DP 1NR   SAME TITLE                  
  02/24/93       460    (S)   ZERO FNS TO SB & CS (DEC, DMVA)                  
  03/03/93              (S)   STA AT 9:00 AM BUTROVICH RM 205                  
  03/03/93              (S)   MINUTE(STA)                                      
  03/31/93              (S)   STA AT 9:00 AM BUTROVICH RM 205                  
  03/31/93              (S)   MINUTE(STA)                                      
  11/29/93              (S)   MINUTE(STA)                                      
  01/19/94              (S)   STA AT 9:00 AM BUTROVICH RM 205                  
  01/19/94              (S)   MINUTE(STA)                                      
  01/21/94              (S)   STA AT 9:00 AM BUTROVICH RM 205                  
  01/21/94              (S)   MINUTE(STA)                                      
  01/24/94      2579    (S)   STA RPT CS 3DP 2NR NEW TITLE                     
  01/24/94      2580    (S)   FNS TO CS PUBLISHED (DEC,DMVA)                   
  02/03/94              (S)   FIN AT 09:30 AM SENATE FIN 518                   
  02/15/94              (S)   FIN AT 09:00 AM SENATE FIN 518                   
  02/17/94              (S)   FIN AT 09:00 AM SENATE FIN 518                   
  02/18/94      2881    (S)   FIN RPT CS 1DP 4NR  NEW TITLE                    
  02/18/94      2881    (S)   FISCAL NOTE TO CS PUBLISHED                      
  02/18/94      2881    (S)   PREVIOUS FN APPLIES (DEC)                        
  02/22/94              (S)   RLS AT 00:00 AM FAHRENKAMP                       
                              ROOM 203                                         
  02/22/94              (S)   MINUTE(RLS)                                      
  02/23/94      2959    (S)   RULES TO CALENDAR  2/24/94                       
  02/24/94      2959    (S)   READ THE SECOND TIME                             
  02/24/94      2959    (S)   FIN CS ADOPTED UNAN CONSENT                      
  02/24/94      2959    (S)   ADVANCED TO THIRD READING UNAN                   
  02/24/94      2959    (S)   READ THE THIRD TIME                              
                              CSSB 33(FIN)                                     
  02/24/94      2960    (S)   PASSED Y16 N2 E2                                 
  02/24/94      2960    (S)   Duncan NOTICE OF                                 
  02/28/94      2994    (S)   RECON TAKEN UP-IN THIRD READING                  
  02/28/94      2995    (S)   PASSED ON RECONSIDERATION                        
                              Y15 N3 A2                                        
  02/28/94      3006    (S)   TRANSMITTED TO (H)                               
  03/02/94      2565    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)                  
  03/02/94      2566    (H)   CRA, FINANCE                                     
  03/10/94              (H)   CRA AT 01:15 PM CAPITOL 124                      
  BILL:  HB 467                                                                
  SHORT TITLE: AHFC HOUSING LOANS                                              
  SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) MACLEAN                                        
  JRN-DATE     JRN-PG               ACTION                                     
  02/11/94      2350    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)                  
  02/11/94      2350    (H)   CRA, FINANCE                                     
  03/10/94              (H)   CRA AT 01:15 PM CAPITOL 124                      
  ACTION NARRATIVE                                                             
  TAPE 94-12, SIDE A                                                           
  Number 000                                                                   
  CHAIRMAN HARLEY OLBERG called the meeting to order at 1:19                   
  p.m.  He noted for the record Representatives Toohey, Bunde,                 
  Sanders and Willis were present and noted that a quorum was                  
  SB 33 - GRANTS FOR LOCAL EMERGENCY PLANNING                                  
  CSSB 33, testified, "This legislation...began as a funding                   
  mechanism for the Departments of Environmental Conservation                  
  and Military and Veterans' Affairs to extend grants to local                 
  emergency planning committees.  But as the departments                       
  reviewed their responsibilities with respect to planning,                    
  the State Emergency Response Commission (SERC) and the local                 
  emergency planning committees, a very different bill                         
  emerged.  The committee substitute before you is the result                  
  of many months of work by the SERC task force, of input from                 
  local governments, mayors, assemblymen, emergency planners,                  
  local emergency planning committees and from the                             
  departments.  This bill transfers the state emergency                        
  response commission and its responsibilities from the                        
  Department of Environmental Conservation to the Department                   
  of Military and Veterans' Affairs (DMVA).  It transfers the                  
  existing Hazardous Substance Spill Technology Review Council                 
  from the SERC where it currently resides, into the                           
  Department of Environmental Conservation (DEC).  It                          
  eliminates the annual revision requirement for the state and                 
  regional oil discharge prevention plans.  The annual review                  
  is still necessary. Sections 1,2 and 3...this is part of a                   
  DMVA amendment.  They were requested in December by the                      
  sponsor, to go through their statutes since this bill was                    
  already so extensive, we asked them, `go ahead and go                        
  through your statutes and see how all of this will sit in                    
  with the current planning that you do' and when they did                     
  that, they realized that there was all this reference to                     
  disaster agencies in their statutes which had never ever                     
  been created and the department feels that they never will                   
  be created, so why leave that in statute, let's get rid of                   
  it...it took five pages to do that.  In section 3, in part,                  
  this is where the bill actually began before.  It amends DES                 
  (Division of Emergency Services) duties to include granting                  
  authority and that's to the extent that money is available                   
  for forming Local Emergency Planning Committees (LEPC), for                  
  awarding federal funds to LEPCs, for developing and                          
  maintaining emergency plans, make funds available to comply                  
  with community right-to-know criteria, to award grants for                   
  training local emergency planning committees, training and                   
  equipping emergency response organizations and for executing                 
  the plans that are developed by the LEPCs.  Sections 4, 10,                  
  and 11 basically say that there will be cohesion among all                   
  of the plans that are created, all the planning statutes                     
  that we have.  We just say, `these all need to mesh                          
  together.'  Those are technical sections but that's what                     
  they do.  Section 5 adds the response corps and depots into                  
  the explicit responsibilities of DMVA.  Section 6:  This is                  
  a housekeeping amendment to make reference to the term                       
  `political subdivision.'  Rather than a variety of other                     
  terms...and it also removed reference to disaster agencies.                  
  Section 7 clarifies that each political subdivision has the                  
  responsibility for disaster preparedness and coordination of                 
  local response and again, it removes reference to disaster                   
  agencies.  Section 8:  Political subdivisions, if they're                    
  unable to plan for local disaster preparedness must                          
  designate a liaison to work with the Division of Emergency                   
  Services.  Section 9 clarifies that each political                           
  subdivision has to have a plan prepared and maintained, and                  
  that the plan is provided to all of the appropriate                          
  officials.  That can mean LEPCs and all the other entities                   
  that are named in that plan when it's created.  Sections 10,                 
  11 and 4:  Again...all related plans must mesh together, so                  
  there isn't some cog somewhere that doesn't fit with the                     
  planning that was started at a local level."                                 
  Number 098                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE CYNTHIA TOOHEY said, "That kind of fits right                 
  here in with this Alaska Fire Chief's Association (letter).                  
  Are you addressing their concern in this letter?"  (A copy                   
  of this letter is on file.)                                                  
  MS. KREITZER said she would address the letter when she                      
  completed the analysis of CSSB 33 and said, "Section 12                      
  establishes the SERC under the DMVA.  It defines the SERC                    
  membership and this is different.  Currently, there are                      
  seven public members on the SERC, but there isn't anything                   
  in statute which says who those seven seats are.  Those                      
  seven seats are designated by the Governor currently.  The                   
  reason this bill became so big and became more than what it                  
  was initially is because as our office worked with the SERC                  
  and with the political subdivisions and the LEPC's, what                     
  became apparent to us is that there was no mechanism for the                 
  LEPC's to have direct input into what the Commission was                     
  doing and no real direct line of communication for the                       
  Commission to the LEPC's or to the political subdivisions.                   
  To resolve that problem, we decided to say that there should                 
  be four LEPC seats on the SERC.  And that there should be                    
  two seats representing political subdivisions on the SERC.                   
  And that there is one undesignated seat that the Governor                    
  can decide who he wants to appoint to that seat.  I'll get                   
  to the Fire Chief's concern in a minute, this is where they                  
  would like to see a seat designated for fire chief's.  Also                  
  in section 12, it removes the requirement for the Oil and                    
  Hazardous Substance Response Office to serve as staff for                    
  the SERC.  DMVA will provide staff support.  In the Senate                   
  Finance Committee, the DMVA had asked for two additional                     
  positions out of general funds.  That was deleted from the                   
  fiscal note in the Senate Finance Committee.  Currently, the                 
  SERC is co-chaired by the DMVA and DEC.  This keeps that                     
  current requirement.  The commission duties:  The commission                 
  wanted to become an all hazards commission.  What they                       
  wanted the ability to do was be the statewide entity                         
  overseeing all the planning that goes on in the state for                    
  all emergencies whether they involve oil and hazardous                       
  substances, earthquakes, floods, or whatever.  It was the                    
  Governor's wish that they do that and they were discussed                    
  extensively and felt that they should go ahead and do that.                  
  So this bill gives them the ability to do that.  They can't                  
  do that on their own, it has to be done legislatively.  Much                 
  of section 12, their duties are the same as current law.                     
  One of the problems was who does the appointing for the                      
  LEPCs.  When SERC was first formed and the LEPCs were first                  
  formed, there were a lot of growth pains.  One of the                        
  problems that occurred were some discrepancies over who                      
  could be on the LEPC and who ought to be making that                         
  decision and those kinds of things.  Well, SARA (Superfund                   
  Amendments and Reauthorization Act) Title 3, the federal law                 
  which brought about the need for SERC and the LEPCs, very                    
  clearly states that the SERC is responsible for appointing                   
  the members to the LEPCs.  That doesn't sit very well with                   
  the local governments...and the way that we have gotten                      
  around it is, and I won't say necessarily side stepping what                 
  the federal intent was, because the SERC is not a rubber                     
  stamp organization, it must evaluate and make sure that the                  
  LEPCs meet the federal criteria that they must meet for                      
  membership.  But what we've said is that the SERC needs to                   
  take into very heavy consideration, the recommendations of                   
  the local political subdivisions as to who ought to be on                    
  the LEPC.  And the SERC has also done its own streamlining                   
  of the process for approval of people in LEPCs.  So these                    
  two things together I think will help alleviate that problem                 
  and concern about membership on the LEPCs."                                  
  Number 280                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE TOOHEY asked, "This emergency planning group                  
  (SERC), is this going to be year round these commissioners?"                 
  MS. KREITZER asked, "The SERC already exists and it has been                 
  in existence since 1990, I believe, when it was first                        
  created by the Governor.  They meet four times a year."                      
  REPRESENTATIVE TOOHEY asked, "So they only are paid when                     
  they're meeting?  We're not making up a whole new                            
  MS. KREITZER confirmed this adding, "In Section 12 it says                   
  the same as current law, they get their per diem and                         
  travel," and continued with her presentation saying,                         
  "Section 26.27.03, Emergency Planning Districts and                          
  Committees:  The commission sets the boundaries of the local                 
  emergency planning districts (LEPD).  Now part of SARA,                      
  Title 3, says federal law requires that the state be divided                 
  into local emergency planning districts and for each                         
  district there is a LEPC.  So when we're talking about LEPCs                 
  and LEPDs, they're one for one.  There has to be a LEPC for                  
  each district that is created.  The Commission will set the                  
  boundaries although we realize that there are some areas of                  
  the state because of remoteness and inability to do the                      
  planning, that they may not have a LEPC.  So after a great                   
  deal of discussion on how to handle that situation, because                  
  the people who are currently out there planning now                          
  certainly want to retain their ability to plan.  They've                     
  been at this for four or five years and they want to                         
  continue.  But for areas of the state that currently are not                 
  planning, but may yet be able to move into a LEPC or become                  
  a LEPC, we had to create some sort of pathway for them to be                 
  able to do that.  What we decided to do was, there are 18                    
  LEPDs currently that exist, anything outside of the 13 LEPCs                 
  would become one LEPD, one district.  In the future, it's                    
  expected that parts of that will organize around                             
  transportation boundaries...because certainly the sponsor                    
  believes that the planning needs to start at the local                       
  level.  And the SERC appoints the members of the LEPC.  When                 
  the SERC does that they have to follow the recommendations                   
  of the political subdivision for that emergency planning                     
  district.  The question came up `what happens when we have                   
  more than one political subdivision?'  Quite frankly, what                   
  has to happen is there has to be some cooperation, and we                    
  believe it's possible.  Whoever's nominated must fit the                     
  categories which are delineated further into the bill.  As                   
  we've discussed that over the year, initially there was a                    
  lot of resistance by the LEPCs.  They weren't sure how their                 
  political subdivisions were going to work together, but as                   
  we talked about more and more they realized that yes, they                   
  are political subdivisions aren't immovable objects, that                    
  they're made up of people...and people can compromise and                    
  they can come to understandings, and they realized that this                 
  is a process that can work and so they were supportive of                    
  this, in the end that this can work.  The committee                          
  membership:  There are seven categories and I want to                        
  emphasize that this does meet SARA, Title 3 requirements;                    
  however, many of you may have heard that no state elected                    
  official in Alaska may constitutionally hold a seat on the                   
  LEPC.  Senator Leman was a member of the Anchorage LEPC and                  
  had to resign his seat.  So that has been changed to just                    
  say `elected local officials' and not state officials,                       
  because in Alaska we can't meet that requirement."                           
  REPRESENTATIVE BILL WILLIAMS joined the committee at 1:38                    
  Number 342                                                                   
  MS. KREITZER continued, "Also, the media position has been                   
  the most difficult to fill.  Especially on the Kenai, this                   
  has been a really great problem for them and the rationale                   
  for the media has been they don't see how they could sit on                  
  the commission and report on the commission and on its                       
  activities.  So that's why they've been reluctant to                         
  participate yet the federal government requires that there                   
  be a media seat, very specifically.  So we've put a little                   
  caveat in here that says, `if you're unable to fill that                     
  seat, you must try, you must go through the motions and                      
  advertise the position and do all the things you would                       
  normally do, but if you can't fill the media seat, you can                   
  continue to operate.'  That's the only way to get around                     
  that because there's a great deal of concern that it would                   
  invalidate any LEPC where they couldn't get the media to                     
  come and sit in that seat.  So this takes care of that                       
  problem.  It also allows for individuals who are unhappy                     
  over the membership of the LEPC to petition the SERC over                    
  the membership.  It allows for the public process.  Also,                    
  current law does not require public advertising of positions                 
  available on the committee.  It's implied in a lot of                        
  places, but it's not required.  So we just thought...we                      
  should say it is required so people know that they should                    
  advertise positions that become available.  All through the                  
  current statutes and the new statutes that are created in                    
  this bill, we've tried to improve coordination and                           
  cooperation between political subdivisions, LEPCs and the                    
  SERC.  So within the LEPC section there we've added `in a                    
  manner that includes coordination with the political                         
  subdivisions covered by the plan' to make sure that LEPCs                    
  are cooperating and coordinating with their local political                  
  REPRESENTATIVE JOHN DAVIES joined the committee at 1:40 p.m.                 
  MS. KREITZER continued, "All LEPC's do not have to become                    
  `all hazards' if they don't have the capacity to plan for                    
  all hazards.  Initially, they don't have to do that.  They                   
  can take that on as their resources allow.  We're not trying                 
  to create little kingdoms where money has to follow.  We're                  
  just saying where you have the ability to plan, then you are                 
  allowed to plan, then you're allowed to plan for all hazards                 
  if that's your desire.  Also in H of that section,                           
  previously DMVA and DEC were the agencies that LEPCs could                   
  look to for technical assistance, and we just felt that                      
  since the SERC is made up of nine commissioners from nine                    
  different departments that if there was a need for technical                 
  assistance from any of those other departments that they                     
  would give that assistance.  Let me go back up here to                       
  committee membership...the fire chief's concern:  If you                     
  look at the membership of the LEPC."                                         
  Number 394                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE TOOHEY asked, "FEMA (Federal Emergency                        
  Management Agency), have you been involved at all with                       
  MS. KREITZER replied, "The only way we've been involved with                 
  FEMA is through the Division of Emergency Services (DES) who                 
  has direct access to FEMA.  So we relied on their                            
  understanding of what FEMA is required to do and what funds                  
  are available through FEMA for planning..."   She then                       
  proceeded with her presentation saying, "going back to the                   
  committee membership on page 9 of your bill, it starts with                  
  lines 9 through 21:  Committee membership must include at a                  
  minimum representatives of the following seven categories"                   
  and read the lines she described in CSSB 33.                                 
  MS. KREITZER said, "It's our contention that the                             
  firefighters will be served because they will be on the                      
  LEPCs and remembering that there are four LEPC seats that                    
  can be appointed to the SERC, we feel that any of these                      
  groups could well sit on the SERC, and we feel that the                      
  Governor will recognize that when he appoints to the SERC."                  
  REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES asked," On that point, is it possible,                 
  however, that we have a circumstance where there would be no                 
  one directly representing the fire fighting side of the                      
  house, as this is drafted?"                                                  
  MS. KREITZER replied, "That's an interesting question                        
  because I can't speculate on what would happen..."                           
  CHAIRMAN OLBERG said, "I will answer that, yes..."                           
  MS. KREITZER added, "I would just also say that of those                     
  eight categories, probably one person wears five of those                    
  REPRESENTATIVE TOOHEY suggested "lumping first aid, health                   
  and hospital into one."                                                      
  MS. KREITZER said, "The reason that this is worded the way                   
  that it is, is because this is the current wording in SARA,                  
  Title 3 and....we have to follow the punctuation which is in                 
  SARA, Title 3..."                                                            
  Number 452                                                                   
  CHAIRMAN OLBERG said, "Would it be fair to suggest that                      
  under circumstances a member of the fire fighting brigade                    
  from any particular municipality could probably serve as a                   
  volunteer, certainly be involved in the process.  There's no                 
  intent here to shut anybody out, you're trying to adapt this                 
  to certain requirements."                                                    
  MS. KREITZER said, "That's correct and we're also trying to                  
  address the problems that we know exist.  The fire chiefs in                 
  their letter to the committee mention that they are                          
  responding agencies and they are exactly correct.  The SERC                  
  and the LEPCs are planning entities.  Recognizing that you                   
  have to have responders, responders have been involved...I                   
  recognize how the planning process takes place and where                     
  responders fit...in the process," and continued further with                 
  her bill presentation saying, "Section 26.23.075, the                        
  emergency plan:  This is the same as current law except that                 
  we changed the cite...on the bottom of page 10.  Section                     
  26.23.077, plan review and incident command systems.  This                   
  had to be amended to reflect the change from a commission                    
  charged only with oil and hazardous substance release                        
  planning to an all hazards SERC.  Also changed here, the                     
  SERC had approval authority over plans and we have changed                   
  that to commission reviews and exercises recommendation                      
  authority.  That's consistent with SARA Title 3...(which)                    
  does not require approval authority.  There are some other                   
  technical changes there changing DES to DMVA and assuring                    
  their role in an imminent or actual hazardous substance                      
  discharge.  Section 13 removes reference to disaster agency.                 
  Section 14 substitutes `environmental' for the word `air.'                   
  Sections 15 and 16 remove reference to disaster agency.  AS                  
  26.23.900 is amended to define the SERC and hazardous                        
  substance in the DMVA statutes.  Section 17:  The incident                   
  command system doesn't exist under AS 46.13 anymore.                         
  Section 18:  The incident command system doesn't exist under                 
  46.13.  Section 19:  This is the state master plan.  This                    
  deletes the requirement to annually revise the master plan.                  
  The department is required to annually revise the state                      
  master plan, but if it's not necessary to revise it.  They                   
  have this hanging over their heads that they must revise it                  
  so what we've said is they should annually review it, but                    
  revise it as necessary.  And again in statute it sets out                    
  what the criteria is for deciding when it should be                          
  revised...it's in Section 20...so there is already the                       
  requirement in law that sets out the criteria for when the                   
  plan ought to be revised.  The commissioner can make that                    
  decision based on these unannounced oil spill drills."                       
  Number 524                                                                   
  CHAIRMAN OLBERG asked, "Would that mean then that the                        
  response to the unannounced drill might trigger the                          
  necessity of changing the plan.  I believe that's the idea."                 
  MS. KREITZER said, "Section 21 is amended to reflect the                     
  same changes to the regional master plan as in the state                     
  master plan, revise as necessary instead of revise annually.                 
  Section 22 gives the DEC the latitude to group communities                   
  that would likely work together in responding to a                           
  REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES asked, "Going back to that Section 20,                 
  subsection D, are there other methods by which you would                     
  trigger a revision?"                                                         
  Number 537                                                                   
  RESPONSE, DEC, "We keep in here a requirement to annually                    
  review the plan, so we would still review it annually and                    
  through that review, we would identify the nature for                        
  REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES said, "So anything that came up during                 
  the process of that review could trigger a revision, is that                 
  MR. CONWAY confirmed this.                                                   
  Number 545                                                                   
  MS. KREITZER continued, "Section 23:  This is of interest to                 
  the Finance Committee in particular, because this deals with                 
  the 470 fund and others, I suppose.  It adds the cost                        
  incurred under current statutes for depots and corps set up                  
  by DEC, pays the expenses incurred by the DES for these SERC                 
  activities including staff support, when those activities                    
  and staff support relate to oil and hazardous substances and                 
  for the cost of being prepared for and responding to a                       
  request by DEC for support in response and restoration                       
  activities except the cost of response corps and emergency                   
  response depots because what you have is, DEC still has the                  
  authority to set up hazardous substance and oil depots and                   
  corps and we are giving DMVA the authority, DES is to set up                 
  emergency response depots and corps.  We've also tied those                  
  together and said, `we don't want you having duplication in                  
  those efforts'."                                                             
  Number 560                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE CON BUNDE said, "You've mentioned                             
  duplication.  I can see way back when, in the old days, DMVA                 
  had this responsibility, why doesn't it just all roll into                   
  MS. KREITZER replied, "That's not what the commissioners                     
  wanted to do and that's not what all of the comment and                      
  agreement has led to.  I think the point has been, when the                  
  SERC wanted to become an all hazards commission, that the                    
  commissioners of DEC and DMVA felt that that planning ought                  
  to be done within DMVA because they do have the satellites."                 
  MR. CONWAY said, "In the context of this piece of                            
  legislation, the depots and corps are for all hazards and                    
  would deal with the whole spectrum of natural disasters and                  
  so forth.  So in that context, with DMVA's role in this                      
  particular aspect, it makes sense to us and DMVA that those                  
  depots and corps, related to all hazards, be with their                      
  program management.  What we have in existing statute, under                 
  Title 46 the DEC statutes, is the ability to enter into                      
  local response agreements or agreements with communities to                  
  pre-stage equipment and work with their resources that they                  
  have to respond to spills.  That's the strategy that we're                   
  looking at and the spectrum of spills or incidents that DEC                  
  handles, 99 percent of them are nondisaster related spills.                  
  So we have existing authority to establish caches and so                     
  REPRESENTATIVE WILLIAMS said, "You mentioned something about                 
  the funding from the 470 fund.  How is it going to effect                    
  the 470 funding today as it is today?  Is it built into the                  
  budget from DEC already?  There are accounting problems                      
  today within the 470 fund.  Will this add more problems to                   
  the accounting?"                                                             
  MS. KREITZER said, "As I understand it with the fiscal note,                 
  it is already built into the budget and they are just taking                 
  money that would have gone to DEC and it's going to go to                    
  DMVA.  There are different things happening with SB 215 and                  
  HB 238, but on the Senate side we have tried to stay abreast                 
  of what's happening with the discussions about the 470 fund                  
  and feel that what is in here doesn't complicate your                        
  process or your bill or what's happening with the discussion                 
  about the 470 fund."                                                         
  Number 611                                                                   
  MR. CONWAY said, "In the context of this legislation, oil                    
  and hazardous substance response is a subset of all                          
  disasters, so the planning effort and the activities that                    
  are related...are response fund eligible.  There will                        
  additional activities that DMVA will be doing and other                      
  kinds of disasters that are not.  But for the response fund                  
  eligible activities, it's the same amount of funding that we                 
  have now and the fiscal note just shows a transfer of the                    
  funds.  So there will not be an increase in the response                     
  fund contribution to that."                                                  
  REPRESENTATIVE WILLIAMS asked, "The money is coming from the                 
  470 fund now to fund this program?"                                          
  MR. CONWAY said, "That is correct.  Currently, SERC and all                  
  the activities is housed in DEC, and that is totally                         
  dedicated to oil and hazardous substances in statute and                     
  that's what makes it response fund eligible..."                              
  REPRESENTATIVE WILLIAMS said, "We're having it come from DEC                 
  who has more experience in oil and hazardous responding,                     
  going to DMVA now?"                                                          
  Number 638                                                                   
  CHAIRMAN OLBERG said, "Isn't the key element the fact that                   
  DEC is spills and hazardous substances primarily.  DMVA is                   
  natural disasters primarily?"                                                
  MR. CONWAY said, "That is correct and what we're trying to                   
  do with this legislation is, we're not trying to devalue the                 
  oil and hazardous substance program, but there are dangers                   
  posed by other hazards, particularly in this state, that                     
  other state's don't face, except for maybe California.  So                   
  we're trying to elevate the level of attention going into                    
  the planning and preparedness for the other kinds of                         
  disasters and have a balance...  So we would continue our                    
  existing statutory authority to deal with these 99 percent                   
  of the spills that are subdisaster, noncatastrophic kinds of                 
  spills and...continue to stay involved with that aspect.                     
  DEC has the technical expertise to deal with the spill                       
  response, but there are other aspects that came along...all                  
  sorts of things in a disaster kind of spill that DEC doesn't                 
  have the technical expertise to deal with."                                  
  Number 695                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES told the committee about the recently                  
  released report on "DEC and that fund."  He said, "One of                    
  the potential drawbacks of the depots and corps program,                     
  especially is their design for relatively infrequent events                  
  and you'll establish a depot and corp, the equipment will                    
  sit there for awhile and then gradually fritter away or rust                 
  or get stolen or used for other purposes...and the personnel                 
  will get bored.  One of the advantages of combining these                    
  two potentially different depots and corps programs into one                 
  program is that the program would be exercised more often                    
  and the people who are involved and are being trained to                     
  respond to oil and hazardous substance responses would get                   
  some training...in responding to other hazards, other                        
  situations.  Therefore when the oil spill situation arises,                  
  they would be more ready to respond to that situation..."                    
  CHAIRMAN OLBERG said, "Aren't we looking at National Guard                   
  Armories, for example, and other facilities throughout the                   
  state as a home for these emergency response depots and                      
  MS. KREITZER responded to Representative Davies saying,                      
  "Absolutely correct...because that's the way the bill is                     
  crafted.  When we talk about saying that there won't be                      
  duplication, that doesn't say there won't be communication                   
  or coordination.  The way this whole bill is set up is to do                 
  that, is to effect that.  The emergency response corps and                   
  depots currently exist in DMVA.  We wanted to be very                        
  explicit about what they ought to contain.  That's why                       
  they're delineated in this, so it's not a transfer of                        
  emergency response corps and depots.  Senator Leman shares                   
  the concern about not wanting to put depots and corps out                    
  there, depots where you're going to have equipment rusting.                  
  We have a concern about people maintaining their level of                    
  interest.  Although the people we've worked with over this                   
  past year...see this as the beginning of being able to move                  
  forward in real a substantive way, to really accomplish what                 
  all the legislation intended after the Exxon Valdez Oil                      
  TAPE 94-12, SIDE B                                                           
  Number 000                                                                   
  DMVA, said, "The DES comes in when the Governor declares a                   
  disaster, the President declares a federal disaster and we                   
  coordinate all the state assets.  So we still have the                       
  responsibility by law to coordinate those depots to provide                  
  for human life and welfare, but we certainly would not want                  
  to be an ambulance chaser and take away the responsibilities                 
  of the first responder departments."                                         
  MS. KREITZER proceeded with her presentation on CSSB 33                      
  saying, "Section 24 of the bill is amended to talk about                     
  DEC's authority to enter into contractual agreements to                      
  establish depots and corps.  This just takes out the                         
  language about providing personnel, equipment or other                       
  services or supplies necessary to establish regional oil and                 
  hazardous substance depots and is necessary for response                     
  readiness, train members of response corps.  That language                   
  is already found in AS 46.04.090 and AS 46.09.040.  So it's                  
  removed here.  Section 25:  As I've said, we've done several                 
  things in here to try to enhance cooperation and                             
  coordination.  In Section 25, this is one of those...                        
  Section 26:  This refers to the Hazardous Substance Spill                    
  Technology Review Council and puts it into the DEC rather                    
  than transferring with the SERC to DMVA because, those                       
  things having to do with oil and hazardous substance                         
  planning, are better in DEC...actually that's sections 26                    
  and 27.  Section 28:  This is a repealer section.  In the                    
  sectional analysis there is a delineation of what each one                   
  of those repealers means.  Much of it has to do with                         
  removing disaster agencies and changing the SERC from DEC to                 
  DMVA.  Section 29:  Just makes reference to the transition                   
  between those departments and what happens when the bill                     
  goes into effect."                                                           
  Number 090                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES said, "Under transition, the problem                   
  of now transmogrifying the regulations to match the new                      
  statutes, is there an effort underway to make that happen                    
  MS. KREITZER said, "The interesting situation here is there                  
  are...minimal regulations, as I understand it, but not much                  
  so there's not really difficulty in doing that."                             
  MR. CONWAY said, "Currently, the SERC has a series of policy                 
  documents, since there's been such a transition and change                   
  and we've been advised by the AG's office that at some point                 
  these policy documents need to be put into                                   
  regulations...transition wise, I don't think that's a snag."                 
  via teleconference in support of CSSB 33.  He said, "There's                 
  been an inordinate amount of work done...  The state in its                  
  entirety has worked on this single piece of legislation to                   
  bring it to you for approval and we wholeheartedly support                   
  this.  We believe that this legislation will make the job of                 
  emergency response much easier for us," and "Is there a way                  
  or a mechanism to get the money to the local emergency                       
  responders?   Those are the people who need the money.                       
  Budgets have been presented by the LEPC membership and                       
  because of budget restraints we've been turned down and                      
  asked to make do with less.  The question is how long do you                 
  want the process to go on.  These people are firemen, police                 
  officers, they're professional planners, volunteers,                         
  political entities that work very hard on these budgets and                  
  these plans to make them work, and if the state comes along                  
  and says, `I'm sorry, you're only going to have $400,000                     
  even though a year and half ago we had $1.2 million dollars                  
  to our budget..."                                                            
  Number 219                                                                   
  ROCKY ANSELL, COPPER RIVER LEPC, GLENNALLEN, testified                       
  briefly via teleconference in support of CSSB 33.                            
  KEN ROBERSTON, COPPER RIVER LEPC, GLENNALLEN, testified                      
  briefly via teleconference in support of CSSB 33.                            
  AND CHAIR, STATEWIDE LEPC ASSOCIATION, testified via                         
  teleconference from Sitka in strong support of CSSB 33                       
  saying, "The LEPC Association was formed and does represent                  
  all LEPCs in the state and as such...when all of the LEPC                    
  and all of the planners within the LEPCs throughout the                      
  state agree on a particular issue, somebody ought to be                      
  listening, particularly the House of Representatives and the                 
  Senate and the Governor," He added, "I think that the Senate                 
  did make a slight mistake.  They eliminated two additional                   
  transient planning positions that were on the bill.  Without                 
  those planners, it's very difficult to get the expertise                     
  required for formal planning to some of the smaller                          
  Number 330                                                                   
  testified via teleconference in support of CSSB 33.  He                      
  said, "We support it as it's presented.  We do consider                      
  funding for LEPCs at the local level an important component                  
  for this..."                                                                 
  VERNON KUGZRUK, NOME, testified via teleconference in                        
  support of CSSB 33 and proposed numerous technical                           
  Number 410                                                                   
  testified via teleconference in support of CSSB 33.  He                      
  said, "We know from history that the first people at the                     
  scene is going to be the fire service...and I think it (our                  
  concern) could be alleviated by possibly including the                       
  requirement that possibly one of the other LEPC members                      
  appointment be done in coordination with the president of                    
  the Fire Chief's Association.  That way you will get a                       
  uniform voice.  I would suggest that that wording be                         
  REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES asked Mr. Shechter for "some specific                  
  language that he would like to see added to the bill."                       
  CHAIRMAN OLBERG said, "The intent of the Chair is to move                    
  this bill with intent language referencing the fire                          
  department aspect" and announced that HB 467 would be                        
  deferred until a later committee meeting.                                    
  STEVE PORTER, ANCHORAGE testified via teleconference in                      
  support of CSSB 33, but added, "By taking the responsibility                 
  of approval away from the SERCs, what you do is...the                        
  authority no longer resides anywhere.  The key here is that                  
  somebody has to be responsible for making sure that the                      
  unified plan, the subregional plans and all the LEPC plans                   
  make sense and work together.   I do understand that the                     
  SERC is in support of the present language.  ...(My opinion)                 
  is contrary to SERCs recommendation, but it sends the wrong                  
  message.  I think the message here is that somebody needs to                 
  be responsible for coordinating all these plans."                            
  MR. MARTIN said, "This issue came up before the SERC last                    
  week on the approval of the commission.  Under state law,                    
  the DES must ensure compliance with federal criteria already                 
  for the federal emergency management agency in the national                  
  response planning for spills and releases.  When the                         
  commission sets up the recommendation for approval, then                     
  they have taken away the responsibility of local government                  
  through the mayor and the assemblies, who by law who have                    
  already assumed responsibility.  Compliance criteria is                      
  already established by the federal government.  We ensure                    
  compliance with the federal criteria."                                       
  MR. PORTER said,  "I don't think we're concerned about self-                 
  determination here...  I don't want to take the                              
  responsibilities of the cities away for self-determination.                  
  I want to make sure, if we had a major emergency, the                        
  cities' plan and the area plan and the unified plan, they're                 
  all complete but the only key issue I'm concerned about.  I                  
  think that responsibility ought to be lodged someplace..."                   
  MS. KREITZER responded, "Mr. Porter and I have had many                      
  conversations about this issue.  It's a difference in                        
  philosophy.  Political subdivisions have indicated to us                     
  that they see this as a problem, especially when it comes to                 
  liability because, at the local level they must follow a                     
  public process to get their plans approved and then the                      
  plans go up through the process and are presented to the                     
  SERC and their concern is, if the emergency response                         
  commission turns around and says `no, we don't like your                     
  plan, you must change this.'  They're very concerned about                   
  then what happens at the local level and who takes                           
  responsibility for that action and they don't like it.  They                 
  find that to be an imposition of the state on the local                      
  ability to plan.  Throughout the bill we have directed DEC                   
  and DMVA...to coordinate their efforts, to coordinate all                    
  the planning.  And we believe that it will work this way..."                 
  Number 561                                                                   
  via teleconference in support on CSSB 33.  He said, "From an                 
  overall perspective, we need to support and we need to fund                  
  this emergency planning legislation.  What we're looking                     
  forward to from a local government standpoint is the                         
  consolidation of emergency planning responsibility of DES.                   
  What this will do for us is, it will consolidate the fiscal                  
  management of the emergency planning functions in the DES                    
  and still allow the DEC to in fact, regulate from their                      
  perspective the smallest spills.  What I also urge you to                    
  do...resist the temptations to make additional changes                       
  though these changes may be good intentioned.  But I'm                       
  afraid if we try to make too many changes we may in fact end                 
  up stalling and not passing the bill this particular session                 
  and I believe it needs to go through..."                                     
  REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE ask that there be a presentation on the                 
  fiscal notes.                                                                
  Number 600                                                                   
  MR. MARTIN said, "Under the Superfund Amendment and                          
  Reauthorization Act of 1986 on hazardous substance, the DEC                  
  established staff support to the commission.  They had six                   
  people that provided full-time support to the commission.                    
  When the state commission went to all hazards, there are                     
  restrictions upon 470 funds for spill and release                            
  substances.  They transferred three of those staff, in this                  
  bill, over to DMVA.  They still retain responsibility for                    
  the community right-to-know provisions of SARA, Title 3 even                 
  though DEC had six people previously, and even though the                    
  commission has broadened its perspective of responsibility,                  
  DMVA required at least five people to execute the statutory                  
  responsibilities, but it went beyond spill and release                       
  funds.  It's the other hazards, like earthquakes, volcanos,                  
  floods and fires, and we were directed to request                            
  supplemental funds and at the time, only general funds were                  
  available.  And of course, I did not articulate sufficiently                 
  before the Senate, to defend those funds.  I understand that                 
  there are no general funds available; however, I would raise                 
  for consideration that if the Division of Forestry in DNR                    
  can access fire suppression funds for personnel and                          
  operations and DEC can access spill funds for personnel and                  
  operations, I would request that the DES be authorized                       
  access to a disaster relief fund for the additional two                      
  positions.  What I have here is a single paged explanation                   
  of what the five positions do.  I also have for the                          
  committee, a five year plan of implementation.  The                          
  commission has been in existence for five years, not a                       
  single plan has been approved by the commission.  What we                    
  are attempting to do is assist local government in the                       
  actual development and promulgation of their plans.  At the                  
  end of the five year period, those two planning positions,                   
  who provide continuity for the commission, the commission                    
  subcommittees, the LEPCs and local government responders, we                 
  would eliminate the state planners.  Because once a plan is                  
  created, it's much more cost effective and cheaper to                        
  maintain it than it is to develop it.  So, we requested five                 
  people to do the job.  Certainly General Cox, the                            
  commissioner for the DMVA is concerned about adequately                      
  performing the statutory functions associated with the bill                  
  and we feel that we need a minimum of five people to do the                  
  job."  (A copy of all documents he referred to may be found                  
  in the House Community and Regional Affairs Committee Room,                  
  Capitol Room 126, and after the adjournment of the second                    
  session of the 18th Alaska State Legislature, in the                         
  Legislative Reference Library.)                                              
  Number 660                                                                   
  CHAIRMAN OLBERG suggested that the House Finance Committee                   
  "wrestle with this," and said, "It would be my                               
  recommendation that we pass this bill on to Finance with an                  
  attached letter of intent regarding the concerns of the Fire                 
  REPRESENTATIVE TOOHEY said, "If we're going to put in a fire                 
  chief chair, then why aren't we putting in a police chief                    
  chair, a head nurse's chair.  I just think that to be nit                    
  picky and to put a fire chief's chair in there is narrowing                  
  MS. KREITZER reminded the committee, "When CSSB 33 passed                    
  out of the Senate Finance Committee it was passed out with a                 
  fiscal note which removed $111,800 in general funds so that                  
  this would be a straight transfer of $646.7 from DEC to                      
  CHAIRMAN OLBERG said, "This is a fiscal note prepared by                     
  Senate Finance."                                                             
  MS. KREITZER confirmed this.                                                 
  Number 669                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE TOOHEY reiterated her concern saying, "In all                 
  fairness, if we're going to have a seat that's dedicated to                  
  the fire chiefs then we should have a seat dedicated to head                 
  nurses, administrators of hospitals.  I think that's just                    
  complicating it and I would like to see it kept simple and                   
  the way it is.  I think it's up to the local community..."                   
  MS. KREITZER said, "I hear what you're saying.  What I would                 
  like is some latitude from the committee.  I want to make a                  
  point, on page 9, lines 9 through 20 (of CSSB 33) which                      
  talks about the membership of the LEPC.  I also want you to                  
  note on line 9, `Except as provided each committee must                      
  provide at a minimum representatives of each of the                          
  following seven categories'."                                                
  TAPE 93-13, SIDE A                                                           
  Number 000                                                                   
  MS. KREITZER continued, "I would like the latitude to                        
  discuss this with the LEPC statewide association and with                    
  the Fire Chief's Association directly.  And if it appears                    
  that they really believe that they need to have a fire                       
  chief's seat, then we would make that amendment in House                     
  CHAIRMAN OLBERG pointed out, "There's no reason why the LEPC                 
  can't have 27 members in theory, is that correct?"                           
  MS. KREITZER confirmed this and said, "But the SERC will not                 
  have 27 members and that is where they are seeking a seat...                 
  What I wanted to get across is that, at the local level they                 
  could have fire captains, they could have a fire                             
  Number 050                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE TOOHEY withdrew her opposition to Chairman                    
  Olberg's letter of intent.                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE moved that CSSB 33 be moved out of                      
  committee with individual recommendations with the attached                  
  fiscal note and a committee letter of intent regarding the                   
  "fireman's seat" on the SERC.  There were no objections.                     
  CHAIRMAN OLBERG adjourned the meeting at 2:55 p.m.                           
  BILL NOT HEARD                                                               
  HB 467:   "An Act relating to housing programs of the Alaska                 
            Housing Finance Corporation and of regional                        
            housing authorities, and permitting regional                       
            housing authorities to make, originate, and                        
            service loans for the purchase and development of                  
            residential housing in the state's small                           

Document Name Date/Time Subjects