Legislature(1993 - 1994)

03/09/1993 01:00 PM CRA

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
txt
                                                                               
              HOUSE COMMUNITY AND REGIONAL AFFAIRS                             
                       STANDING COMMITTEE                                      
                          March 9, 1993                                        
                            1:00 p.m.                                          
                                                                               
                                                                               
  MEMBERS PRESENT                                                              
                                                                               
  Representative Harley Olberg, Chairman                                       
  Representative Con Bunde                                                     
  Representative John Davies                                                   
  Representative Cynthia Toohey                                                
  Representative Ed Willis                                                     
  Representative Bill Williams                                                 
                                                                               
  MEMBERS ABSENT                                                               
                                                                               
  Representative Jerry Sanders, Vice-Chairman                                  
                                                                               
  OTHER HOUSE MEMBERS PRESENT                                                  
                                                                               
  Representative Jerry Mackie                                                  
                                                                               
                                                                               
  COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                           
                                                                               
  HB 143:   "An Act relating to the distribution of the                        
            revenue obtained from imposition of the state tax                  
            on motor fuel used in watercraft of all                            
            descriptions; and providing for an effective                       
            date."                                                             
                                                                               
            MOVED OUT OF COMMITTEE WITH A DO PASS                              
            RECOMMENDATION                                                     
            AS CSSSHB 143                                                      
                                                                               
  *HB 166:  "An Act relating to enhanced 911 emergency                         
            reporting systems; and providing for an effective                  
            date."                                                             
                                                                               
            CSHB 166 PLACED IN SUBCOMMITTEE OF REPRESENTATIVES                 
            DAVIES AND BUNDE                                                   
                                                                               
  (* first public hearing)                                                     
                                                                               
  WITNESS REGISTER                                                             
                                                                               
  Representative Con Bunde                                                     
  State Capitol, Room 112                                                      
  Juneau, Alaska  99811-1182                                                   
  Phone:  465-4843                                                             
  POSITION STATEMENT: Prime Sponsor, HB 166; Introduced CSHB
                      166                                                      
                                                                               
  Robby Benson, City Clerk/Treasurer                                           
  Delta Junction                                                               
  P.O. Box 1173                                                                
  Delta Junction, AK  99737                                                    
  Phone: 895-4656                                                              
  POSITION STATEMENT: Asked questions related to HB 166                        
                                                                               
  Kevin O'Leary, Chief of Police                                               
  Anchorage Police Department                                                  
  4501 Bragaw                                                                  
  Anchorage, AK  99508                                                         
  Phone: 786-8500                                                              
  POSITION STATEMENT: Supported HB 166                                         
                                                                               
  Bonnie Golden, Administrative Assistant to Mayor Gilman                      
  Kenai Peninsula Borough                                                      
  144 N. Binkley                                                               
  Soldotna, AK  99669                                                          
  Phone: 262-5515                                                              
  POSITION STATEMENT: Supported CSHB 166                                       
                                                                               
  Mark S. Johnson, Chief                                                       
  Emergency Medical Services Section                                           
  Department of Health and Social Services                                     
  P.O. Box 110616                                                              
  Juneau, AK  99811-0616                                                       
  Phone: 465-3027                                                              
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Supported HB 166                                        
                                                                               
  Representative Jerry Mackie                                                  
  Court Building, Room 602                                                     
  Juneau, Alaska  99811-1182                                                   
  Phone: 465-4925                                                              
  POSITION STATEMENT: Gave suggestions regarding HB 166; Prime                 
                      Sponsor, HB 143                                          
                                                                               
  Jud Fager, Assemblyman and Deputy Mayor                                      
  City of Sitka                                                                
  206 1/2  Lakeview Drive                                                      
  Sitka, AK  99835                                                             
  Phone: 747-3917                                                              
  POSITION STATEMENT: Supported HB 143                                         
                                                                               
  Larry Meyers, Director                                                       
  Income and Excise Audit Division                                             
  Department of Revenue                                                        
  P.O. Box 110420                                                              
  Juneau, AK  99811                                                            
  Phone: 465-2320                                                              
  POSITION STATEMENT: Testified neutrally on HB 143                            
                                                                               
  Dan Keck, Mayor                                                              
  City of Sitka                                                                
  203 Harbor Drive                                                             
  Sitka, AK  99835                                                             
  Phone: 747-8020                                                              
  POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on HB 143                                      
                                                                               
                                                                               
  PREVIOUS ACTION                                                              
                                                                               
  BILL:  HB 143                                                                
  SHORT TITLE:  MARINE FUEL TAX REVENUE SHARING                                
  BILL VERSION:  SSHB 143                                                      
  SPONSOR(S):  REPRESENTATIVE(S) MACKIE,Grussendorf                            
  TITLE: "An Act relating to the distribution of the revenue                   
  obtained from imposition of the state tax on motor fuel used                 
  in watercraft of all descriptions; and providing for an                      
  effective date."                                                             
                                                                               
  JRN-DATE     JRN-PG               ACTION                                     
  02/10/93       292    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)                  
  02/10/93       292    (H)   CRA, TRANSPORTATION, FINANCE                     
  02/22/93       410    (H)   SPONSOR SUBSTITUTE INTRODUCED-                   
                              REFERRALS                                        
  02/22/93       410    (H)   CRA, TRANSPORTATION, FINANCE                     
  03/02/93              (H)   CRA AT 01:00 PM CAPITOL 124                      
  03/02/93              (H)   MINUTE(CRA)                                      
  03/09/93              (H)   CRA AT 01:00 PM CAPITOL 124                      
                                                                               
                                                                               
  BILL:  HB 166                                                                
  SHORT TITLE:  ENHANCED 911 SYSTEMS                                           
  BILL VERSION:                                                                
  SPONSOR(S):  REPRESENTATIVE(S) BUNDE                                         
  TITLE: "An Act relating to enhanced 911 emergency reporting                  
  systems; and providing for an effective date."                               
                                                                               
  JRN-DATE     JRN-PG               ACTION                                     
  02/18/93       381    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)                  
  02/18/93       381    (H)   CRA, FINANCE                                     
  03/09/93              (H)   CRA AT 01:00 PM CAPITOL 124                      
                                                                               
                                                                               
  ACTION NARRATIVE                                                             
                                                                               
  TAPE 93-11, SIDE A                                                           
  Number 000                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN HARLEY OLBERG called the meeting to order at 1:05                   
  p.m., and noted Representatives Bunde, Toohey, Davies and                    
  Willis were present.                                                         
  HB 166:  ENHANCED 911 SYSTEMS                                                
                                                                               
  Number 020                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE CON BUNDE, PRIME SPONSOR OF HB 166,                           
  testified, "In my district, the municipality of Anchorage                    
  was introducing this enhanced 911 service which basically is                 
  the emergency number with whistles and bells attached so                     
  that it allows a quicker response of the appropriate                         
  emergency service, whichever you might require.  ...The                      
  problem was that this wasn't going to be available to all                    
  areas of the municipality, my district particularly, and                     
  even more startling to me is that the 911 number, as far as                  
  police emergency, would be withdrawn."                                       
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE continued, "Really all it (HB 166) does                 
  is requires a municipality provide this enhanced 911 service                 
  to all people within its boundaries and allows the                           
  municipality to collect a fee for this service because the                   
  enhancement does cost more than the other.  The existing 911                 
  service is quite an expensive service...   In my district                    
  alone, for one year, it was nearly $50,000.  So it is                        
  currently not free.  The new system would allow the                          
  subscriber to pay for this service... Fifty cents a month in                 
  some municipalities, and the smaller ones, 75 cents a                        
  month."                                                                      
                                                                               
  Number 104                                                                   
                                                                               
  ROBBY BENSON, CITY CLERK/TREASURER, DELTA JUNCTION, via                      
  teleconference asked if the fees could be used for                           
  dispatcher wages and if the surcharge would be listed                        
  separately on telephone bills.                                               
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE said, "It is not my intent that it                      
  would be used for dispatcher wages...   It is my belief it                   
  would be shown as a separate surcharge on the bill, but I'd                  
  have to defer that to someone who knows municipalities and                   
  utilities better than I..."                                                  
                                                                               
  MS. BENSON asked, "Delta (Junction) presently is installing                  
  the 911 enhanced system, so will this surcharge be available                 
  to us as well?"                                                              
                                                                               
  Number 139                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE said, "The surcharge will be available                  
  wherever the enhanced 911 is installed, yes."  Regarding                     
  dispatcher wages, he added, "That was not the way I read the                 
  bill (HB 166), however, I've been informed that others might                 
  look at that differently."                                                   
                                                                               
  MS. BENSON asked if ambulance runs were "private records"                    
  and "who is privy to those 911 calls".                                       
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE replied, "They're certainly not                         
  available to the general public, but for the people that                     
  it's part of their duty or function, and the way I read                      
  medical records, that doesn't include the ambulance runs,                    
  no."                                                                         
                                                                               
  Number 186                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE CYNTHIA TOOHEY MOVED that the committee adopt                 
  the working draft as a committee substitute (CS) for HB 166.                 
  Without objections, CSHB 166 was ADOPTED.                                    
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE addressed the CS, "The original HB 166                  
  was under Title 42, which is Public Utilities, instead of                    
  Title 29, Municipal Government, and certainly not a function                 
  of APUC (Alaska Public Utilities Commission) to participate                  
  in the collection of fees for 911.  The CS for HB 166 is to                  
  place the legislation in the statutes where it more rightly                  
  belongs."                                                                    
                                                                               
  Number 198                                                                   
                                                                               
  KEVIN O'LEARY, CHIEF OF POLICE, ANCHORAGE, testified via                     
  teleconference in support of HB 166 saying, "I think it's a                  
  welcome addition to the state of Alaska and will allow                       
  communities to establish enhanced 911 system that they are                   
  able to pay for."                                                            
                                                                               
  Number 212                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE JOHN DAVIES asked, "In the Anchorage                          
  municipality, have you tried to establish enhanced 911                       
  systems and can't do it for one statutory reason or                          
  another?"                                                                    
                                                                               
  MR. O'LEARY said, "We have an enhanced system now that is                    
  somewhat old and is in need of being replaced."  He also                     
  indicated that HB 166 provides for "collection of necessary                  
  revenues to support the acquisition of the equipment" and                    
  "secondarily, the portion of the legislation that refers to                  
  'community' is also something that we cannot provide for                     
  ourselves on a local level, it has to be enacted on a state                  
  level."                                                                      
                                                                               
  Number 230                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES asked if the amount of surcharge (50                   
  cents) "would be adequate for Anchorage."                                    
                                                                               
  MR. O'LEARY said, "No, it will not be adequate, that                         
  surcharge will approximately raise 300,000 dollars in                        
  revenue.  The current cost for operations of our dispatch                    
  center is a little over four million dollars of which 1.9                    
  million dollars is applied strictly to 911 operations."                      
                                                                               
  Number 244                                                                   
                                                                               
  BONNIE GOLDEN, ADMINISTRATIVE ASSISTANT TO MAYOR GILMAN,                     
  KENAI PENINSULA BOROUGH, read the Mayor's position paper                     
  submitted to the committee members which supports CSHB 166.                  
  (A copy of this position paper may be found in the House                     
  Community and Regional Affairs Committee Room, Capitol Room                  
  110, and after the adjournment of the second session of the                  
  18th Alaska State Legislature, in the Legislative Reference                  
  Library.)                                                                    
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES asked, "Specifically, what does this                   
  bill (HB 166) allow you to do that they can't do know, how                   
  does this help them?"                                                        
                                                                               
  MS. GOLDEN replied, "The way that I understand it, it allows                 
  us to charge for the 911 services..."                                        
                                                                               
  Number 298                                                                   
                                                                               
  MARK JOHNSON, CHIEF, EMERGENCY MEDICAL SERVICES SECTION,                     
  DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND SOCIAL SERVICES, testified, "We                     
  support the bill (HB 166).  ...My only comment is, as far as                 
  emergency medical services, AS 29.35.020 allows for                          
  extraterritorial jurisdiction for certain services,                          
  including emergency medical services, and in the event that                  
  a municipality may choose, and I believe they do this by                     
  ordinance to provide service in a surrounding area, I would                  
  suggest the wording be flexible enough to allow that for the                 
  enhanced 911 service area."                                                  
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE asked, "Do you envision that there                      
  would be parts of the borough where you would serve from one                 
  borough to the next?"                                                        
                                                                               
  MR. JOHNSON said, "I'm not sure how many municipalities                      
  would want to include this in their enhanced 911 system, but                 
  I do believe they ought to have that option.  The Delta                      
  Junction ambulance, for example, picks up patients up and                    
  down the highway, and whether or not they and their local                    
  telephone exchange would want to accommodate enhanced 911                    
  further out would be up to them..."                                          
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE said, "I was just trying to think if                    
  there would be a municipality on a boundary where they might                 
  want to extend their service into another borough..."                        
                                                                               
  Number 342                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN OLBERG said, "In Delta Junction, for example, the                   
  City of Delta Junction operates the service but it covers a                  
  wide area within the unorganized borough, in fact."                          
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE confirmed, "It would still then be                      
  available to all people in that borough or unorganized                       
  borough."                                                                    
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN OLBERG added, "The unorganized borough is a                         
  borough."                                                                    
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES said, "I would support this                            
  suggestion, I think the same situation is true for...                        
  Fairbanks.  ...I think there are situations here where this                  
  might preclude that so I would support some kind of friendly                 
  amendment."                                                                  
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE replied, "I'm not opposed to that                       
  idea."                                                                       
                                                                               
  Number 375                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE said, "... I don't have any hesitation                  
  of spreading it out where a city, municipality or borough                    
  could then provide service as was suggested, as otherwise                    
  under [AS] 29.35.020..."                                                     
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN OLBERG suggested possible amendments be produced.                   
                                                                               
  Number 389                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES asked, "Where it says 'the area may be                 
  all of a city', does that mean that the area may not be part                 
  of a city?  Is that the intent of this language?"                            
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE said, "That is very much the intent of                  
  this statute because my particular district was being left                   
  out and access to 911 should be expanded and not curtailed."                 
                                                                               
  Number 400                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE JERRY MACKIE offered, "Instead of an                          
  amendment...  normally, you would explain to Legislative                     
  Legal what you're trying to accomplish and they'll come up                   
  with the language.  I think it would be important to make                    
  sure that it was done by legal..."                                           
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN OLBERG asked Representative Bunde how he wanted to                  
  pursue the amendments.                                                       
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE said, "I guess I would like to possibly                 
  move this bill (HB 166) along with your intent to modify                     
  that particular phrase to (include) 'or otherwise provided                   
  for in AS 29.35.020'."                                                       
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN OLBERG suggested a "conceptual amendment" that                      
  accompanies the bill (HB 166) so the bill "can begin its                     
  journey to its next committee of referral and save a little                  
  time that way."                                                              
                                                                               
  Number 425                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES suggested some consideration be given                  
  to cellular phone "possibilities."                                           
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE asked for specific suggestions                          
  regarding cellular phones for CSHB 166.                                      
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES volunteered to work "on a very small                   
  subcommittee to solve this problem."                                         
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN OLBERG said, "I love volunteers," and added, "We'll                 
  hear it again Thursday..."                                                   
                                                                               
  Number 460                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES reiterated, "Why is it necessary to do                 
  this?  Why can't the municipalities do this on their own as                  
  it is?  And the second one:  Why are we limiting the                         
  population of the municipality of Anchorage to raise                         
  revenues to only 50 cents when everybody else gets the                       
  opportunity for the 75 (cents)."                                             
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE said, "I worked with people in the                      
  municipality and they felt this was a fair way to approach                   
  it.  There is a responsibility, and I may be putting words                   
  in their mouths, this is my perception, of municipalities                    
  providing services and there's also then an opportunity for                  
  people to pay in some measure for their services.  As you                    
  might imagine you have lots of fires, your share of the fire                 
  department budget doesn't go up even though you're a greater                 
  demand of the service than someone who has no fires.  And to                 
  your first question, municipalities did not feel they were                   
  able to institute this service, particularly from boundary                   
  to boundary, without this additional legislation."                           
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN OLBERG suggested the details be sorted out in a                     
  subcommittee comprised of Representatives Bunde and Davies.                  
                                                                               
  Number 490                                                                   
                                                                               
  Chairman Olberg called an at ease at 1:32 p.m.                               
                                                                               
  HB 143:  MARINE FUEL TAX REVENUE SHARING                                     
                                                                               
  Chairman Olberg reconvened the meeting at 1:36 p.m. with                     
  Representative Williams joining the committee, and SSHB 143                  
  was brought forth.                                                           
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE TOOHEY MOVED that the committee substitute                    
  for the sponsor substitute for HB 143 (CRA) (CSSSHB 143                      
  (CRA)) be adopted.  Without objections, IT WAS SO ORDERED.                   
                                                                               
  Number 521                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE MACKIE, PRIME SPONSOR OF HB 143, testified                    
  addressing a proposed amendment to CSSSHB 143, "It was                       
  suggested by Representative Davies in the last meeting that                  
  ...the committee wanted to have language in there that the                   
  money collected had to be used for harbor facilities, so if                  
  I can direct your attention to the amendment which is                        
  offered by [Jack] Chenoweth [Legislative Legal Counsel]..."                  
  He then described the amendment.  (A copy of this amendment                  
  may be found in the House Community and Regional Affairs                     
  Committee Room, Capitol 110, and after the adjournment of                    
  the second session of the 18th Alaska State Legislature, in                  
  the Legislative Reference Library.)                                          
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES MOVED that the AMENDMENT be ADOPTED by                 
  the committee.  Without objections, IT WAS SO ORDERED.                       
                                                                               
  Number 540                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE MACKIE referred to a letter from the City of                  
  Craig which specified the losses they incur.  He said, "They                 
  expect for FY 93 to generate 61,000 dollars in revenues,                     
  they are anticipating the expenditures for (FY) 1993 to be                   
  82,000 (dollars) therefore being 20,000 dollars short...                     
  The expenditures are expected to be about 37,000 dollars                     
  more to the city in the next year.  Based on last year's                     
  (1992) taxes that were collected there, the City would                       
  expect to receive about 20,000 dollars from that tax money                   
  so there would still be a void..."                                           
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE MACKIE continued, "Depending on each                          
  municipality or each location with harbor facilities, they                   
  would need to determine themselves whether or not it was in                  
  their best interest to assume control of any of these                        
  harbors.  This would only serve as an incentive for some of                  
  them to do it."                                                              
                                                                               
  Number 572                                                                   
                                                                               
  JUD FAGER, ASSEMBLYMAN AND DEPUTY MAYOR, CITY AND BOROUGH OF                 
  SITKA, testified via teleconference in support of HB 143                     
  saying, "Marine fuel tax...was originated by the state to                    
  help finance harbors and infrastructure, but the state's                     
  position of a relinquishing maintenance and infrastructure                   
  for harbors...  With the state's declining revenues and                      
  desire to cut government spending...  Who better to run the                  
  harbors than the local communities?"                                         
                                                                               
  Number 593                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE asked Larry Meyers, Director of the                     
  Income and Excise Audit Division, Department of Revenue, "Do                 
  you see that this would erode any of the money available?"                   
                                                                               
  LARRY MEYERS, DIRECTOR, INCOME AND EXCISE AUDIT DIVISION,                    
  DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE, replied, "This will not erode.  There                 
  is a basic concern that we have as far as the administration                 
  and collection.  ...Currently we only track at the wholesale                 
  level and the bill (HB 143) as presented would attempt to                    
  trace the sale of fuel back to the individual locality, and                  
  as the forms are now set up and the way we track, we're not                  
  capable of doing this."                                                      
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN OLBERG asked at what point was the fuel tax being                   
  charged.                                                                     
                                                                               
  MR. MEYERS said, "At the wholesaler level.  The first time                   
  that it's purchased or transferred coming in within the                      
  state."                                                                      
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN OLBERG asked, "A fuel dealer in Craig does not                      
  collect any fuel taxes?"                                                     
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE TOOHEY asked, "Do you support this bill (HB
  143)?"                                                                       
                                                                               
  MR. MEYERS said, "Right now we're in a neutral position."                    
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE TOOHEY said, "From what you say, you're                       
  losing thousands of dollars by not being able to track the                   
  fuel, is that correct?"                                                      
                                                                               
  MR. MEYERS said, "My concern here is trying to make sure we                  
  would allocate the amount that was used in that particular                   
  area.  I'm saying we're not capable of tracking it..."                       
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN OLBERG said, "It seems it would be relatively                       
  simple, to determine how many gallons of fuel were sold in                   
  Craig, Alaska, for example."                                                 
                                                                               
  Number 654                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE MACKIE said, "I was unaware that that's how                   
  it operates...  I cannot believe that it would be very hard                  
  for Fuel Company X to fill out a form that says I collected                  
  100,000 dollars in fuel tax this year within the City of                     
  Craig.  ...If we're not asking them to do that, if we're not                 
  collecting the money as it's being sold...then obviously, we                 
  are losing out on a considerable amount of money."                           
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN OLBERG said, "I wonder if, in fact, the tax you're                  
  paying when you buy fuel kind of travels up the line to some                 
  point where the [Department of] Revenue is keeping track of                  
  the fuel at one end of the system or the other."                             
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE MACKIE interjected, "Perhaps they don't jive,                 
  either."                                                                     
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE said, "It makes little difference where                 
  the tax is actually paid...  All you really need to know is                  
  how much is that tax and how many gallons were pumped at                     
  that particular locale."                                                     
                                                                               
  Number 680                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE MACKIE said, "If this was straightened out                    
  somehow, this bill (HB 143) might be a considerable revenue                  
  enhancer to the state."  He added, "Why wouldn't the                         
  Department of Revenue ask each fuel company that does                        
  business in the state to submit to them a report as to how                   
  many actual gallons of marine fuel they sold and how many                    
  tax dollars they collected on that fuel.  If they're                         
  required to charge the tax, they certainly ought to be                       
  required to report that to you, community by community or                    
  fuel company by fuel company..."                                             
                                                                               
  MR. MEYERS replied, "The tax is charged at the wholesale                     
  level at that one time, that is the reporting requirements.                  
  Then it can be moved down the line to dealer by dealer.  It                  
  is passed with the tax on.  ...So you, as the ultimate                       
  consumer, you have that additional tax you're paying for,                    
  but it's just pulling back up the line...we are not                          
  concerned who the ultimate consumer is."                                     
                                                                               
  TAPE 93-11, SIDE B                                                           
  Number 000                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN OLBERG said, "All we need to know is how many                       
  gallons of fuel were sold in that city that year to do the                   
  arithmetic."                                                                 
                                                                               
  MR. MEYERS said, "That would be a start, yes.  ...We're not                  
  set up to track that..."                                                     
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE MACKIE asked, "Why wouldn't the Department                    
  [of Revenue] be able to change how they do it a little bit                   
  and just require any fuel retailer to submit their report...                 
  It seems that would be a more accurate, more efficient way                   
  to handle the accounting practices."                                         
                                                                               
  Number 049                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. MEYERS replied, "In collecting taxes, it has been our                    
  experience that if you try to get at the first source when                   
  it comes into the state rather than when it filters down, it                 
  makes our reporting requirements, ability to monitor, a lot                  
  easier if we collect it the first time it comes in the                       
  state.  As it is right now, motor fuel distributors are                      
  required to file on a monthly basis.  If we were to go down                  
  another level, we would probably increase our paperwork                      
  three, four, five-fold times.  Each time we rely on someone                  
  further on down the stream to report, we have less and less                  
  chance of catching them or making sure that there's                          
  compliance."                                                                 
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE pointed out there were a limited number                 
  of municipal-owned docks in Alaska and "it's in the                          
  municipality's interest" to do any additional accounting.                    
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN OLBERG said, "That's a good point...put the burden                  
  of providing the necessary information on the municipality                   
  that's going to actually receive the benefit.  ...I suspect                  
  there's even a tax structure already in place through sales                  
  taxes..."  He also pointed out the Department of Revenue's                   
  fiscal note.  (A copy of this fiscal note may be found in                    
  the House Community and Regional Affairs Committee Room,                     
  Capitol Room 110, and after the adjournment of the second                    
  session of the 18th Alaska State Legislature, in the                         
  Legislative Reference Library.)                                              
                                                                               
  Number 117                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. MEYERS responded to the $40,000 contractual amount on                    
  the fiscal note, "It was our intentions in the first year,                   
  on page 3 of the fiscal note, would be for a survey to                       
  determine how many linear feet of the wharfage.  Someone                     
  would have to go out there and physically measure this..."                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE BILL WILLIAMS said, "You'd think you have                     
  that information now."                                                       
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN OLBERG said, "In every case we're talking about a                   
  facility that used to be a state facility and is now a city                  
  facility.  You would think that those figures are on file                    
  somewhere from when the dock was built...  I think we just                   
  saved you 40,000 bucks here."                                                
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE MACKIE pointed out that on the Department of                  
  Transportation's (DOT) list of harbors provided to the                       
  committee members, this information had been furnished.  (A                  
  copy of this fiscal note may be found in the House Community                 
  and Regional Affairs Committee Room, Capitol Room 110, and                   
  after the adjournment of the second session of the 18th                      
  Alaska State Legislature, in the Legislative Reference                       
  Library.)  "DOT owns these facilities now, they know how                     
  many linear feet of dock they have on all these things," he                  
  said.                                                                        
                                                                               
  Number 165                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN OLBERG said, "Perhaps the fiscal note is erring on                  
  the side of not wanting to be too small, possibly, because                   
  some of the information may in fact be on file.  The cities                  
  could certainly bear the burden of collecting the tax                        
  information..."                                                              
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE MACKIE said, "These communities that are                      
  presently affected by it certainly should make sure that the                 
  Department of Revenue has the information about how many                     
  feet.  Perhaps the Department of Revenue wasn't aware that                   
  this information was available."                                             
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE WILLIAMS asked if another amendment was                       
  needed.                                                                      
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE MACKIE said, "Because this is state statute,                  
  we have to hold one of our agencies responsible, which is                    
  the Department of Revenue.  However, Revenue can have a                      
  regulation.  You don't legislate regulations.  They can have                 
  a regulation that specifies that the municipality shall                      
  provide the Department of Revenue with the footage in their                  
  community and the information before Revenue cuts them a                     
  check...  I think it would be somewhat unusual to mandate                    
  that responsibility to a municipality when we're talking                     
  about state general funds..."                                                
                                                                               
  Number 245                                                                   
                                                                               
  DAN KECK, MAYOR, SITKA, via teleconference testified, "It's                  
  interesting to listen to your concerns of how this would be                  
  collected in Sitka.  I can't see that this is a problem.  We                 
  collect sales tax on all fuel that is sold now.  So we can                   
  go back and check...  So if we have this in our duties, we                   
  can easily collect the fuel tax."                                            
                                                                               
  MR. FAGER added, via teleconference, "There's no way to do                   
  this on a wholesale level...  All the tax would have to be                   
  collected at the retail level because that's the only way we                 
  would get accurate records.  There are several ways, you                     
  could repeal the law as it is and we make it a local tax, if                 
  you can't figure out how to do it."                                          
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE MACKIE compared the forced receipts'                          
  legislation of several years ago which was "done by                          
  regulation" and was working well.                                            
                                                                               
  Number 291                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE made a MOTION to MOVE CSSSHB 143, as                    
  amended, out of committee with individual recommendations.                   
  Without objections, IT WAS SO ORDERED.                                       
                                                                               
  ADJOURNMENT                                                                  
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN OLBERG adjourned the meeting at 2:10 p.m.                           

Document Name Date/Time Subjects