Legislature(2019 - 2020)

12/10/2020 10:00 AM House BUD

Audio Topic
10:00:51 AM Start
10:01:28 AM Approval of Minutes
10:01:54 AM Executive Session
12:10:52 PM Final and Preliminary Audit Releases
12:12:08 PM Special Audit Request
12:44:08 PM Revised Programs - Legislative
12:55:20 PM Adjourn
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
txt
                    ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE                                                                                  
             LEGISLATIVE BUDGET AND AUDIT COMMITTEE                                                                           
                       Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                        
                       December 10, 2020                                                                                        
                           10:00 a.m.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Representative Chris Tuck, Chair                                                                                                
Senator Click Bishop, Vice Chair                                                                                                
Representative Neal Foster                                                                                                      
Representative Andy Josephson                                                                                                   
Representative Ivy Spohnholz                                                                                                    
Senator Bert Stedman                                                                                                            
Senator Natasha von Imhof                                                                                                       
Senator Cathy Giessel                                                                                                           
Senator Lyman Hoffman                                                                                                           
Representative Jennifer Johnston (alternate) (via                                                                               
teleconference)                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Representative Mark Neuman                                                                                                      
Senator Bill Wielechowski (alternate)                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
APPROVAL OF MINUTES                                                                                                             
EXECUTIVE SESSION                                                                                                               
FINAL AND PRELIMINARY AUDIT RELEASES                                                                                            
SPECIAL AUDIT REQUEST                                                                                                           
REVISED PROGRAMS - LEGISLATIVE                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
No previous action to record                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
KEN ALPER, Staff                                                                                                                
Representative Chris Tuck                                                                                                       
Alaska State Legislature                                                                                                        
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:  Presented the special audit request.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
KRIS CURTIS, Legislative Auditor                                                                                                
Legislative Audit Division                                                                                                      
Legislative Agencies and Offices                                                                                                
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:   Answered questions pertaining  to a special                                                             
audit.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
ALEXEI PAINTER, Legislative Fiscal Analyst                                                                                      
Legislative Finance Division                                                                                                    
Legislative Agencies and Offices                                                                                                
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:  Presented RPLs.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
10:00:51 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  CHRIS  TUCK  called  the   Legislative  Budget  and  Audit                                                             
Committee  meeting  to  order  at  10:00  a.m.    Representatives                                                               
Josephson,   Foster,   Spohnholz,   Johnston   (alternate)   (via                                                               
teleconference),  and  Tuck  and  Senators  von  Imhof,  Stedman,                                                               
Giessel, Hoffman, and Bishop were present at the call to order.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
^APPROVAL OF MINUTES                                                                                                            
                      APPROVAL OF MINUTES                                                                                   
                                                                                                                              
10:01:28 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  TUCK  announced  the  first order  of  business  would  be                                                               
approval of minutes.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
10:01:33 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  BISHOP  moved  that the  Legislative  Budget  and  Audit                                                               
Committee approve the  minutes of November 6, 2020.   There being                                                               
no objection, the minutes of November 6, 2020, were approved.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
^EXECUTIVE SESSION                                                                                                              
                       EXECUTIVE SESSION                                                                                    
                                                                                                                              
10:01:54 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR TUCK announced that the next  order of business would be an                                                               
executive session to consider the  final release of the following                                                               
audits:                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
   • Board of Certified Direct-Entry Midwives;                                                                                  
   • Medicaid and Children's Health Insurance Program                                                                           
     Eligibility; and                                                                                                           
   • Medicaid and Children's Health Insurance Program                                                                           
     Transportation Costs.                                                                                                      
And to  consider the  preliminary release  to the  departments of                                                               
the following audit:                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
   • Office of Children's Services Compliance with Foster Care                                                                  
     Reform Laws, Part 1.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
10:02:22 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  BISHOP  moved  that the  Legislative  Budget  and  Audit                                                               
Committee go  into Executive  Session under  Uniform Rule  22 (b)                                                               
(3), discussion  of matters that may,  by law, be required  to be                                                               
confidential.  He asked that  the following persons remain in the                                                               
room or on the phone lines:                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
   • The Legislative Auditor and necessary staff for the                                                                        
     auditor;                                                                                                                   
   • Legislative Legal Services Director Megan Wallace and                                                                      
     necessary legal services staff;                                                                                            
   • Any legislators not on the committee; and                                                                                  
   • Staff for legislators who are members of the committee.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
There being no objection, it was so ordered.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
10:03:09 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
The committee took  an at-ease from 10:03 a.m. to  12:10 p.m. for                                                               
the purpose of executive session.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
12:10:21 PM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  TUCK called  the Legislative  Budget  and Audit  Committee                                                               
back to order  at 12:10 p.m.   Present at the call  back to order                                                               
were  Representatives  Josephson,   Foster,  Spohnholz,  Johnston                                                               
(alternate)  (via  teleconference),  and Tuck  and  Senators  von                                                               
Imhof, Stedman, Giessel, Hoffman, and  Bishop.  Also present were                                                               
Representatives Edgmon and Stutes and Senators Wilson and Kiehl.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
^FINAL AND PRELIMINARY AUDIT RELEASES                                                                                           
              FINAL AND PRELIMINARY AUDIT RELEASES                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
12:10:52 PM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR TUCK  announced that  the next order  of business  would be                                                               
final and preliminary audit releases.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
12:11:07 PM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR BISHOP  moved the following  audits be released  as final                                                               
public reports:                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
• Department of Commerce, Community and Economic Development,                                                                   
     Board of Certified Direct-Entry Midwives;                                                                                  
   • Department of Health and Social Services, Medicaid and                                                                     
     Children's Health Insurance Program Eligibility; and                                                                       
   • Department of Health and Social Services, Medicaid and                                                                     
   Children's Health Insurance Program Transportation Costs.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
There being no objection, the audits were released.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
12:11:41 PM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR BISHOP moved the following  preliminary audit be released                                                               
to the agencies for response:                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
   • Department of Health and Social Services, Office of                                                                        
     Children's Services Compliance with Foster Care Reform                                                                     
     Laws, Part 1.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
There being no  objection, the preliminary audit  was released to                                                               
the agencies for response.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
^SPECIAL AUDIT REQUEST                                                                                                          
                     SPECIAL AUDIT REQUEST                                                                                  
                                                                                                                              
12:12:08 PM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  TUCK announced  the  next  order of  business  would be  a                                                               
special audit request.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR TUCK said  he and Representative Spohnholz  were making the                                                               
request regarding  the Department  of Revenue  (DOR) oil  and gas                                                               
tax audit  process.  He  invited Ken  Alper to present  the audit                                                               
request to the committee.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
12:12:38 PM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
KEN  ALPER,  Staff,  Representative   Chris  Tuck,  Alaska  State                                                               
Legislature,  said he  may  be referring  to  information in  the                                                               
committee packet.   The first  he noted  was a special  report on                                                               
the Department of  Revenue, oil and gas tax  audit process, dated                                                               
June 20,  2014.   He also  pointed to 11  pages, which  start out                                                               
with  a cover  letter  to  the co-chairs  of  the Senate  Finance                                                               
Committee, Senators  Steadman and von Imhof,  from the Department                                                               
of Law (DOL), dated January 16, 2019.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR. ALPER offered  background information that in  the last year,                                                               
the  Tax  Division   refused  to  provide  Kris   Curtis  of  the                                                               
Legislative Audit  Division some of  the information that  she is                                                               
statutorily   allowed  to   acquire,   information  specific   to                                                               
assessments and settlements.  He continued:                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     That  led  to there  being  a  qualified opinion  -  an                                                                    
     asterisk in the  statewide single audit -  because of a                                                                    
     lack   of   complete   information  coming   from   the                                                                    
     Department of Revenue.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     In  addition   there  have   been  some   requests  for                                                                    
     information  that  have  been  denied  from  individual                                                                    
     legislators on  the grounds  that it  was confidential.                                                                    
     That is the sort of  information that in the past years                                                                    
     has  been not  considered confidential,  and, in  fact,                                                                    
     there are  specific statutory  exceptions to  that data                                                                    
     being confidential, meaning  aggregated data within the                                                                    
     production tax.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
12:14:32 PM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. ALPER covered the questions  being asked in the special audit                                                               
request,  which he  said fit  into three  broad categories.   The                                                               
first couple  questions relate to  updating the data in  the 2014                                                               
legislative  audit.   He said,  "We want  to make  sure that  the                                                               
production tax  audit staffs and workloads  are appropriate, that                                                               
they have the right number  of people that are adequately trained                                                               
for  the job,  and that  they have  appropriately adapted  to the                                                               
advanced software  that was,  in 2014, still  a work  in progress                                                               
but has been fully implemented in  this part of their world."  He                                                               
said that  project was  funded in  the fiscal  year 2012  (FY 12)                                                               
capital budget, $34.7  million.  Also being  considered, he said,                                                               
is whether the  process of "going about the  audits" has changed,                                                               
what  the priorities  are,  whether there  have  been changes  to                                                               
policy, reinterpretations  of statute,  different ways  of making                                                               
considerations,  or  changes   to  the  way  the   tax  is  being                                                               
collected.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. ALPER  said the next broad  area is the information  that was                                                               
missing in the  statewide single audit, which he  noted are items                                                               
four and  five on the  audit request  memorandum.  He  said there                                                               
was a question as to whether  tax audit assessments may have been                                                               
paid using  tax credit  certificates.  He  reviewed, "There  is a                                                               
large  overhang of  unpurchased tax  credit certificates  that in                                                               
the  past the  state used  to  buy as  quickly as  they came  in.                                                               
They're now seven-hundred-and-some  million dollars outstanding."                                                               
He continued:                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
     There  was  some concern  that  a  major producer  that                                                                    
     might have  a tax audit assessment  might be purchasing                                                                    
     those  credits  and  using  it   to  pay  their  taxes.                                                                    
     There's  no   proof  of  this,  but   there's  also  no                                                                    
     information to show that it's  not being done, which is                                                                    
     where  Ms. Curtis'  concerns were.   And  were that  to                                                                    
     take  place, there's  a constitutional  issue, and  the                                                                    
     reason  for  that is  the  [Alaska]  Supreme Court  has                                                                    
     determined that  a production tax audit  assessment ...                                                                    
     is an  administrative proceeding,  the result  of which                                                                    
     has to go into the  Constitutional Budget Reserve.  ...                                                                    
     So, if a tax audit is  being paid for with tax credits,                                                                    
     which is  a general fund  revenue source, ...  it would                                                                    
     be an unconstitutional diversion  of money ... from the                                                                    
     Constitutional Budget  Reserve without  a three-quarter                                                                    
     vote, and  that would be  problematic.  So, we  need to                                                                    
     find out if that sort of thing is taking place.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR. ALPER  said the  missing piece  to which  Ms. Curtis  has not                                                               
been  provided access  pertains to  audit settlement  memorandums                                                               
regarding   disputes  and   formal   processes   signed  by   the                                                               
commissioner of the Department of  Revenue (DOR).  Without those,                                                               
Ms.  Curtis has  not  been  able to  "get  enough information  to                                                               
resolve  that."   He said  there  are also  questions of  whether                                                               
taxes are being  refiled or settled in advance of  a formal audit                                                               
assessment  request as  a way  to circumvent  the Capital  Budget                                                               
Reserve Fund  (CBRF) issue  in an attempt  to get  certain monies                                                               
into  the general  fund.   He said  it is  necessary to  find out                                                               
whether deals or settlements are being made on the side.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
12:17:57 PM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR.  ALPER stated  that that  final  series of  questions on  the                                                               
memorandum, items  six and seven,  have to do with  specific data                                                               
coming out of DOR "that more involves numbers."  He continued:                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     Although  the  individual   taxes  and  individual  tax                                                                    
     assessments  on  a  particular  tax  payer  is  clearly                                                                    
     confidential  - these  are  [Internal Revenue  Service]                                                                    
     (IRS)  rules, state  rules -  there  are exceptions  in                                                                    
     statute,  specifically  AS  43.55.890, that  allow  for                                                                    
     aggregated information.  If there's  at least three tax                                                                    
     payers,   at  least   three   data   points,  ...   the                                                                    
     administration's allowed  to share with the  public and                                                                    
     the legislature the total.   That keeps individual data                                                                    
     confidential,  and  here  we're  talking  about  taxes,                                                                    
     lease  expenditure data;  lots of  specific data  about                                                                    
     the  oil  and  gas   operations  and  spending  can  be                                                                    
     released in an aggregated form.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     We have information on total  tax assessments for every                                                                    
     audit cycle going back to at  least 2000.  From 2000 to                                                                    
     2007,  the legislative  auditor published  in the  2014                                                                    
     special audit what the sum total was.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR.  ALPER noted  he was  the tax  director during  some of  this                                                               
time,  and  every  time  a   tax  audit  cycle  was  completed  a                                                               
memorandum was  published showing  the total amount  assessed and                                                               
the total  amount with interest.   There  is a complete  data set                                                               
through 2012.   He said in  the last two years  DOR has completed                                                               
the  2013  audit cycle  and  is  close  to  or may  have  already                                                               
completed  the  2014   cycle  and  has  declined   to  share  the                                                               
information  on  the  total  audit  assessment,  saying  that  is                                                               
confidential  information.   He  relayed  that  item six  in  the                                                               
memorandum seeks to get that information from DOR.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR. ALPER said  item seven in the memorandum seeks  to update the                                                               
information  referred to  previously  that says  of the  assessed                                                               
dollars how much  remains outstanding and in what  category:  the                                                               
appeals process, in the Office  of Administrative Hearings, or in                                                               
court.  He  related that Representative Story, who  had made some                                                               
of these requests, received an  e-mail from DOR in October [2020]                                                               
stating that  there are no outstanding  assessments through 2013.                                                               
He said  that was surprising  information.  He pointed  out there                                                               
was an error in item seven,  which refers to $1.3 billion in open                                                               
assessments.   He explained that  the $1.3 billion  includes some                                                               
assessments  that had  previously been  paid.   He said  the real                                                               
number,  through  2012,  is  approximately  $900  million  known,                                                               
unpaid assessments  outstanding as  of January  2019.   Mr. Alper                                                               
said there  is also an unknown  number that came in  for the 2013                                                               
cycle,  which  is, based  on  recent  activity, likely  $100-$200                                                               
million.  He continued:                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     So,  there's  a  billion  dollars,   or  so,  worth  of                                                                    
     outstanding  audited  assessments  that are  no  longer                                                                    
     pending.   ... In  some way they  have been  settled or                                                                    
     resolved, which  then leads to, "Well,  what happened?"                                                                    
     Without  the auditor  having access  to the  settlement                                                                    
     memos, we don't know what  happened.  The only thing we                                                                    
     could  piece together  is what  we know  is money  that                                                                    
     went into the Constitutional Budget Reserve.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     The Constitutional  Budget Reserve  data exists  in two                                                                    
     different forms.   You  could see  the total  number in                                                                    
     the revenue  sources book.  That  number includes money                                                                    
     coming in  from multiple sources:   royalty audits, oil                                                                    
     property tax,  corporate income  tax, mining  taxes, as                                                                    
     well  as  the   oil  and  gas  production   tax.    The                                                                    
     Department of Revenue puts out  an annual report that -                                                                    
     to the  extent they  can - breaks  that out  by source.                                                                    
     So, for  2019, the  annual report  is complete,  and we                                                                    
     know that  $166 million, resulting from  the production                                                                    
     tax, went into  the CBRF.  For FY 20  the annual report                                                                    
     isn't out  yet, but  we know  from the  revenue sources                                                                    
     book that  $235 million  total went  to the  CBRF, some                                                                    
     large  portion   of  which   would've  come   from  the                                                                    
     production tax.  So, we've  got a universe of something                                                                    
     approaching, but  not quite,  $400 million  that likely                                                                    
     came  from  production  tax  settlements.    Out  of  a                                                                    
     billion, billion-one worth of original audits.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     So, the  last part of  this request  is to try  to find                                                                    
     out what happened.  Was there  a change in policy?  Was                                                                    
     there a  master settlement across  the board?   ... Why                                                                    
     is  it that  all of  these  audits may  have only  been                                                                    
     settled for 35-40 cents on the dollar?                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. ALPER  said that concluded  his presentation, and  he offered                                                               
to answer questions.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
12:22:46 PM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  JOSEPHSON   asked  why   Mr.  Alper   thinks  the                                                               
administration  would   respond  any  differently  from   how  it                                                               
responded to Ms. Curtis.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR.   ALPER  explained   that  the   single   audit  process   is                                                               
confidential, and  the administration refused the  request of Ms.                                                               
Curtis claiming confidentiality.  He  expressed his hope that the                                                               
special audit  may "shake  something lose over  there."   If not,                                                               
the next step may be  more adversarial; however, he expressed his                                                               
hope that it would not come to that.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
12:23:44 PM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR STEDMAN  asked Ms. Curtis  to confirm she is  the auditor                                                               
for the state.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
12:24:20 PM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
KRIS  CURTIS, Legislative  Auditor,  Legislative Audit  Division,                                                               
Legislative   Agencies  and   Offices,  confirmed   she  is   the                                                               
legislative auditor.   In response to a follow-up  question as to                                                               
whether  [DOR]  comes under  her  purview,  she stated  that  her                                                               
position  is a  constitutional one,  and under  statute, she  has                                                               
access   to   "all   information,   including   that   which   is                                                               
confidential."    She  further confirmed  that  the  confidential                                                               
information allows her to do her job as auditor.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR STEDMAN then  expressed that he expects  the situation to                                                               
get elevated.  He  said he would like to know  what the next step                                                               
would be to  protect "the integrity of  the financial information                                                               
that the legislature and the public has preview to."                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR TUCK  remarked that he  interpreted Senator  Stedman's good                                                               
question as being a rhetorical one.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
12:25:53 PM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MS. CURTIS said  most of the issues she is  addressing pertain to                                                               
whether the  information she  is requesting  is privileged.   The                                                               
current administration has denied  the Legislative Audit Division                                                               
access  based  on  the  issue   of  privileged  information;  the                                                               
division has not had this  issue with past administrations.  [The                                                               
current administration]  claims that  the information  Ms. Curtis                                                               
says she  needs in  order for the  Legislative Audit  Division to                                                               
answer some  questions is attorney/client privileged.   She said,                                                               
"Those are the types of things  we're going to have to figure out                                                               
in this process."                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR STEDMAN asked  what the next step is to  ensure the books                                                               
can be reviewed to make sure they're "clean."                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MS.  CURTIS  answered  that  the  Legislative  Budget  and  Audit                                                               
Committee  has subpoena  power.   She  offered her  understanding                                                               
that  the  committee  had  never   exercised  this  power.    She                                                               
expressed her  hope that "we  can work  together to come  to some                                                               
understanding of  what is  or is  not in my  purview."   She said                                                               
another option  is that the legislature  could specifically state                                                               
that she has access to privileged information.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR STEDMAN stated his concern  that "there's nobody watching                                                               
the hen  house" and billions  of dollars  are involved.   He said                                                               
the public  and the legislature  need to have assurance  that the                                                               
transactions  are  documented,  justified, in  proper  form,  and                                                               
reported   within  "our   financial  statements"   so  that   the                                                               
legislature, as  policy makers, can  understand the  benefits and                                                               
possible  pitfalls in  any  policy pursued.    He emphasized  the                                                               
significance of this issue, and he  said his comfort level is not                                                               
high.   He  questioned who,  if not  the legislative  auditor, is                                                               
allowed to review the information.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MS. CURTIS responded that if  Senator Stedman is referring to the                                                               
tax credits,  the division can  review what is in  the accounting                                                               
system, and  some documents that  the department doesn't  view as                                                               
privileged,  thus it  has some  understanding of  what is  in the                                                               
financial  statements.     She  clarified  that   in  2019,  [the                                                               
administration] was  not allowing the Legislative  Audit Division                                                               
access  to the  administration's  subsystem and,  when asked  for                                                               
specific information  to follow up  on the assessment  issue, was                                                               
not responsive.   She added, "That  lead to a qualification.   We                                                               
are still in progress for the FY 20."                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR STEDMAN questioned  how, without an audit,  the public is                                                               
assured  there  has  been  no   quid  pro  quo  in  dealing  with                                                               
settlements of credits.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MS. CURTIS  answered, "I think  that's what this  [special] audit                                                               
can provide:  assurance."                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
12:30:13 PM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  VON  IMHOF  expressed interest  in  hearing  about  cash                                                               
value.  She  said she wants to know, for  example, the cash value                                                               
when a certificate is used for a tax payment.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MS. CURTIS  asked Senator von Imhof  to clarify if she  wanted to                                                               
know whether the state paid, for  example, 80 cents on the dollar                                                               
for a $100 credit.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR VON  IMHOF emphasized, "The  most important thing  of all                                                               
is the flow  of cash."  She  said she did her best  to follow Mr.                                                               
Alper's  rapid presentation  of  a great  amount of  information.                                                               
She stated  that she wants to  know where the cash  flow went and                                                               
what was  left on the  table - "things  like that."   She allowed                                                               
that she  may not be  phrasing the  question just right,  and she                                                               
suggested she  could speak with  Ms. Curtis later.   She recalled                                                               
that Senator Stedman  had spoken about the  accountability of the                                                               
tax credits, and  she reemphasized her interest in  the matter of                                                               
cash flow.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
12:31:56 PM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  GIESSEL,  regarding   Senator  Stedman's  comment  about                                                               
transparency to the public, remarked  that the legislature is the                                                               
public, having  been elected by  the public and  representing it.                                                               
She  said there  has been  a multi-level  erosion of  legislative                                                               
authority in the last two  years.  Regarding the two-page special                                                               
audit  request, she  turned to  item 4,  tax credits,  and stated                                                               
that  in House  Bill  111, [passed  during  the Thirtieth  Alaska                                                               
State  Legislature],  legislative  intent  was  articulated  that                                                               
credits could be used to  "satisfy a tax, interest, penalty, fee,                                                               
or   other  charge"   that   has  not   been   subject  to   ["an                                                               
administrative  19 proceeding  or litigation."]   She  pointed to                                                               
the final sentence of item 5  of the special audit request, which                                                               
read:                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     As part of this analysis, determine whether the state                                                                      
     is entering into any form of agreement with the tax                                                                        
     payer outside of the audit assessment process that                                                                         
     could be interpreted to be part of an administrative                                                                       
     proceeding.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR GIESSEL  said, "That, of  course is something  that we've                                                               
allowed them to do."  She said  Mr. Alper, during his time as the                                                               
Tax Division  director issued an  advisory document  resulting in                                                               
"a need  for the  companies to  revise their  tax filings."   She                                                               
stated, "Sometimes reading some of  these implies that tax payers                                                               
have  been  unscrupulous,  and  sometimes  it's  allowed."    She                                                               
explained she brought  that up as "a  modifying statement related                                                               
to the  questions."   She expressed that  she shares  the concern                                                               
that the legislative  branch and the public are  being "pushed to                                                               
the side."                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
12:34:28 PM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  JOSEPHSON  offered  his  understanding  that  Ms.                                                               
Curtis had said  there is a law that can  be triggered that finds                                                               
the   legislative  auditor   is   allowed   to  view   privileged                                                               
information, which,  in other  words, meant that  a legal  fix is                                                               
not needed because there is a law that applies.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MS. CURTIS answered no.  She  stated that she had said one option                                                               
would  be   to  clarify  her   ability  to  look   at  privileged                                                               
information by changing the law.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  JOSEPHSON surmised  that a  settlement memorandum                                                               
is likely to give the statistics  of a full and final settlement,                                                               
along with some legal jargon, but  may not get into the merits of                                                               
a full dispute.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MS.  CURTIS said  she thought  Representative Johnson  was saying                                                               
that  evaluating what  is happening  would involve  "a deep  dive                                                               
into  communications between  the state  and the  auditee."   She                                                               
confirmed that is true, because it  is never simple.  It involves                                                               
looking  at all  the  information available,  because an  auditor                                                               
cannot give a full judgement by viewing a fraction of the whole.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOSEPHSON, to Mr.  Alper, recalled Senator Giessel                                                               
had noted that [House] Bill 111  allowed for some offsetting.  He                                                               
asked whether  there were any constitutional  problems with House                                                               
Bill 111.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
12:38:16 PM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. ALPER  answered that  tax credits  can be used  to pay  a tax                                                               
obligation  from  a  prior  year,  but  "only  so  long  as  that                                                               
obligation would not have  to go to the CBRF."   He said that led                                                               
to the  question:  "What would  that be, for example?"   That led                                                               
further to the idea  that an additional tax due as  a result of a                                                               
tariff  settlement perhaps  should not  be CBRF  money.   He said                                                               
there  had  been a  large  Federal  Energy Regulatory  Commission                                                               
(FERC)  settlement pending  at the  time House  Bill 111  passed,                                                               
which  led  to several  hundred  million  dollars in  incremental                                                               
taxes becoming  due.  He said,  "We thought perhaps that  was the                                                               
sort of thing  that might be payable with tax  credits."  He said                                                               
working  with Senator  Giessel  on  that bill,  the  goal was  to                                                               
create a secondary  market for tax credits.  He  said, "We needed                                                               
to find  a way, with  the state not  providing the cash,  that we                                                               
would be  able to  allow these  holders of  credits to  use them.                                                               
One  way would  be to  sell them.   So,  we thought  that perhaps                                                               
these  tariff settlements  might  be something  outside the  CBRF                                                               
universe."   Mr.  Alper said  that led  to some  reclassifying of                                                               
previous  deposits  to  the  CBRF,  with  which  the  legislative                                                               
auditor found  fault, and  there is  an approximate  $1.2 billion                                                               
discrepancy outside  the scope of  this audit, which is  not "so-                                                               
called real  money" but is "a  definition of what we  owe back to                                                               
the CBRF."   Mr.  Alper said the  short answer  to Representative                                                               
Josephson's question  is that yes,  House Bill 111 "allows  us to                                                               
go back  into time," but only  to the extent that  the underlying                                                               
obligation would not be CBRF revenue.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  JOSEPHSON  said  there  is some  belief  that  an                                                               
aggressive  posture would  have brought  the state  $1.1 billion,                                                               
"but we  see indications that $400  million was paid."   He said,                                                               
"That's a $1,000 dividend, and the  public may want to know about                                                               
that."  He indicated that  the public may "misunderstand that; it                                                               
may be that the oil tax payer arguments were good ones."                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. ALPER said the total  amount of assessments sounds large, but                                                               
he  advised keeping  in  mind  just how  large  the  oil and  gas                                                               
production tax  is within the  State of Alaska's  overall revenue                                                               
portfolio.   It is  traditionally the largest  revenue item.   He                                                               
related that between 2006 and  2012, approximately $29 billion in                                                               
production tax was  collected by the state - all  in general fund                                                               
revenue.   He said  the entirety of  the auditor  assessments for                                                               
those  seven   years,  including  the  amount   paid  before  the                                                               
memorandum was written, was approximately  $1.5 billion.  He said                                                               
that is an  increment of roughly 5 percent in  unpaid taxes found                                                               
by DOR.   He echoed  Representative Josephson's remark  that that                                                               
amount equals  $1,500 for every  person in the state,  "a billion                                                               
dollars outstanding."                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
12:42:28 PM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR BISHOP  observed that Ms.  Curtis was not asking  for any                                                               
more or  less than has  been in her  purview, and he  opined that                                                               
the committee should  back her up to be  afforded the information                                                               
for the public.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
12:43:12 PM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  BISHOP  moved  that the  Legislative  Budget  and  Audit                                                               
Committee  approve  the  request  for  a  special  audit  of  the                                                               
Department  of Revenue  oil and  gas  tax audit  process made  by                                                               
Representatives Tuck  and Spohnholz.   There being  no objection,                                                               
it was so ordered.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
^REVISED PROGRAMS - LEGISLATIVE                                                                                                 
                 REVISED PROGRAMS - LEGISLATIVE                                                                             
                                                                                                                              
12:44:08 PM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR TUCK announced the next  order of business would be Revised                                                               
Programs - Legislative (RPLs).                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
12:44:51 PM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
ALEXEI PAINTER,  Legislative Fiscal Analyst,  Legislative Finance                                                               
Division, Legislative Agencies and  Offices, presented RPLs.  The                                                               
first was RPL 08-2021-0278, [Department  of Commerce, Community &                                                               
Economic   Development   (DCCED)]    Alaska   Seafood   Marketing                                                               
Institute, for  $850,000 of federal receipt  authority for market                                                               
access  program federal  carryforward and  Cochran missions.   He                                                               
said the  U.S. Department of  Agriculture (USDA) makes  an annual                                                               
grant to  the Alaska Seafood  Marketing Institute (ASMI),  and in                                                               
FY 20 a portion of this  money went unspent because of the COVID-                                                               
19 pandemic.   He said the USDA will allow  ASMI to carry forward                                                               
the unspent portion  of the grant, which is  just under $800,000,                                                               
into FY  21.  In  addition, ASMI  anticipates up to  two missions                                                               
under the Cochran  fellowship program, also funded by  USDA, at a                                                               
cost of  approximately $60,000  each.   He explained  that ASMI's                                                               
existing  federal receipt  authority  is  insufficient for  these                                                               
awards, thus it seeks this RPL.   He said the Legislative Finance                                                               
Division sees no technical issues with this RPL.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. PAINTER  turned to RPL 08-2021-0279  [Department of Commerce,                                                               
Community &  Economic Development],  for the  Alaska Oil  and Gas                                                               
Conservation Commission  (AOGCC), for $26,302 of  federal receipt                                                               
authority  for  oilfield  inspections  and  mechanical  integrity                                                               
testing.  He noted the committee  approved a similar RPL one year                                                               
ago.   This year  AOGCC received a  multi-purpose grant  from the                                                               
U.S. Environmental  Protection Agency  (EPA) for  the underground                                                               
injection  control  program,  and its  existing  federal  receipt                                                               
authority  is insufficient  to spend  this  grant.   He said  the                                                               
Legislative Finance  Division sees no technical  issues with this                                                               
RPL.                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
12:47:04 PM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. PAINTER  turned to RPL 08-2021-0296  [Department of Commerce,                                                               
Community &  Economic Development],  the Alaska  Energy Authority                                                               
(AEA),  for  $3  million  in federal  receipt  authority  in  the                                                               
capital  budget  for  the AEA  Alternative  Energy  &  Efficiency                                                               
Program,  specifically  for   the  Fivemile  Creek  Hydroelectric                                                               
Project  [in  Chitina,  Alaska].   He  said  the  federal  Denali                                                               
Commission awarded a $3 million  grant fund for this project, and                                                               
the matching funds for this grant  will be provided by $4 million                                                               
from  the renewable  energy  grant fund  and  a $500,000  in-kind                                                               
match  from the  Chitina Native  Corporation.   Mr. Painter  said                                                               
this   RPL  is   attached   to  a   capital  project   originally                                                               
appropriated  in   FY  13  for   AEA's  Alternative   Energy  and                                                               
Efficiency  Program.     That  original  appropriation   was  not                                                               
specific to  one particular  project but  covered a  multitude of                                                               
projects within  the program; this  project would fit  within the                                                               
scope of  that original  capital project.   Regarding  timing, he                                                               
said AEA  anticipates the  project will close  out in  late 2022,                                                               
which takes  it into FY 23;  however, there is an  immediate need                                                               
for  the  funding,   because  AEA  plans  to   begin  design  and                                                               
permitting  in February  2021  and to  select  the contractor  by                                                               
April.    He  said  the  Legislative  Finance  Division  sees  no                                                               
technical issues with this RPL.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
12:48:53 PM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOSEPHSON  said in  the late April/early  May time                                                               
frame,  there was  some consternation  regarding the  legality of                                                               
RPLs under the CARES Act.  At  the time, he said, he learned that                                                               
there had  to be a  budget operating item -  some linkage -  to a                                                               
federal program.  He said  there was litigation and resolution of                                                               
the matter through legislation later  in May.  He observed, "This                                                               
is a capital  project outside the five-year  lookback or window."                                                               
He asked whether  there is a technical argument that  this RPL is                                                               
beyond the  scope of what  is acknowledgeable by  the Legislative                                                               
Budget and Audit Committee.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. PAINTER responded that while  the project is from eight years                                                               
ago, some  of the funds are  still being spent; therefore,  it is                                                               
an open,  active project.   He said  the five-year window  can be                                                               
extended if projects  are ongoing.  There would be  concern if it                                                               
were not still active.  He  said funding has been appropriated to                                                               
this  alternative energy  and  efficiency  program in  subsequent                                                               
years,  but   those  years  did   not  include   federal  receipt                                                               
authority.  He explained, "So, by  using the FY 13 one, they were                                                               
able to increase existing federal  receipt authority in line with                                                               
the statute."   He said the division does not  have concerns, but                                                               
he can see why it could "raise some flags."                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
12:51:14 PM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR.  PAINTER   moved  on  to  RPL   08-2021-0319,  Department  of                                                               
Commerce, Community  & Economic Development, for  $2.5 million in                                                               
federal receipt  to increase community  block grants  for federal                                                               
coronavirus community  development block  grants.  He  said DCCED                                                               
received   approximately   $6.2   million   for   the   community                                                               
development block grants in the  federal CARES Act.  The existing                                                               
block grant  appropriation had  sufficient federal  authority for                                                               
the first  two distributions of  these funds, but not  enough for                                                               
the third distribution.  This  RPL is for the third distribution.                                                               
He said the Legislative Finance  Division has no technical issues                                                               
with this RPL.   He said the division would  assign its fund code                                                               
1265 to  it, which is a  federal fund code to  enable tracking of                                                               
COVID-19 appropriations.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. PAINTER addressed  the final item, RPL  07-2021-1173, for the                                                               
Department  of Labor  & Workforce  Development (DLWD),  Workforce                                                               
Investment Board,  for $2,190,200  in federal  receipt authority,                                                               
to cover  existing grants in  the department's  operating budget,                                                               
for  which  it  received  additional  grant  funding  beyond  its                                                               
expectations.  He  said this is attaching to  an operating budget                                                               
item.   He related that  the Legislative Finance Division  has no                                                               
technical issues with this RPL.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
12:53:16 PM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR TUCK thanked Mr. Painter  for walking the committee through                                                               
the RPLs.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
12:53:28 PM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  BISHOP  moved  that the  Legislative  Budget  and  Audit                                                               
Committee approve the following RPLs:                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
   • RPL 08-2021-0278, Department of Commerce Community and                                                                     
     Economic Development, Market Access Program Federal                                                                        
     Carryforward and Cochran Missions;                                                                                         
   • RPL 08-2021-0279, Department of Commerce Community and                                                                     
   Economic Development, Oilfield Inspections and Mechanical                                                                    
     Integrity Testing;                                                                                                         
   • RPL 08-2021-0296, Department of Commerce Community and                                                                     
   Economic Development, AEA Alternative Energy & Efficiency                                                                    
     Programs  Fivemile Creek Hydroelectric Project in Chitina                                                                  
     AK;                                                                                                                        
   • RPL 08-2021-0319, Department of Commerce Community and                                                                     
     Economic Development, Additional Federal Authority for                                                                     
     Community Block Grants; and                                                                                                
   • RPL 07-2021-1173, Department of Labor and Workforce                                                                        
     Development, Increase Federal Authority for Existing                                                                       
     Grants.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
There being no objection, the RPLs were approved.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
12:55:20 PM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
ADJOURNMENT                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
There being no further business before the committee, the                                                                       
Legislative Budget and Audit Committee meeting was adjourned at                                                                 
12:55 p.m.                                                                                                                      

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