Legislature(2019 - 2020)BUTROVICH 205

03/28/2019 03:30 PM STATE AFFAIRS

Note: the audio and video recordings are distinct records and are obtained from different sources. As such there may be key differences between the two. The audio recordings are captured by our records offices as the official record of the meeting and will have more accurate timestamps. Use the icons to switch between them.

Download Mp3. <- Right click and save file as
Download Video part 1. <- Right click and save file as
Download Video part 2. <- Right click and save file as

Audio Topic
03:38:02 PM Start
03:38:42 PM SJR4
04:27:46 PM SJR5
06:05:40 PM Public Testimony on Sjr 5
07:59:58 PM Adjourn
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+= SJR 4 CONST. AM: STATE TAX; INTIATIVE TELECONFERENCED
Moved CSSJR 4(STA) Out of Committee
*+ SJR 5 CONST. AM.:PERMANENT FUND & DIVIDEND TELECONFERENCED
Heard & Held
-- Public Testimony - Starts at 6:00 p.m. --
<Time Limit May Be Set>
+ Bills Previously Heard/Scheduled TELECONFERENCED
          SJR  5-CONST. AM.:PERMANENT FUND & DIVIDEND                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
4:27:46 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR   SHOWER  reconvened   the   meeting   and  announced   the                                                               
consideration  of  SENATE  JOINT   RESOLUTION  NO.  5,  Proposing                                                               
amendments to  the Constitution of  the State of  Alaska relating                                                               
to the Alaska permanent fund and the permanent fund dividend.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
4:28:30 PM                                                                                                                    
BRUCE TANGEMAN,  Commissioner, Department of  Revenue, Fairbanks,                                                               
reported that for over three  decades the permanent fund dividend                                                               
calculation and the amount of  the dividend was never questioned.                                                               
This because  an issue when  the dividend was politicized  and it                                                               
created mistrust for many Alaskans.  He explained that SJR 5 does                                                               
three  things.  First,  the  dividends  would  be  guaranteed  by                                                               
initiating  an automatic  transfer rather  than being  subject to                                                               
appropriation.  Second,  the PFD  could  not  be reduced  by  the                                                               
legislature  or a  governor's  veto. Third,  any  changes to  the                                                               
statutory  PFD  formula  would  require a  vote  of  the  people.                                                               
Finally, he said,  SJR 5 is just one part  of Governor Dunleavy's                                                               
fiscal plan  that seeks to  ensure that Alaskans are  included in                                                               
deciding the size and scope of their government.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
4:30:03 PM                                                                                                                    
BILL  MILKS, Assistant  Attorney General,  Civil Division,  Labor                                                               
and State  Affairs Section, Department of  Law, Juneau, delivered                                                               
the following sectional analysis for SJR 5.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     Section 1:  This would  provide a  conforming amendment                                                                    
     to  the  existing  language in  order  to  authorize  a                                                                    
     portion  of  permanent  fund  income  to  be  used  for                                                                    
     dividends as set forth in Section 2.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     Section   2:  This   section  would   create  two   new                                                                    
     subsections in the permanent fund amendment.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     Subsection  (b) would  require that  a  portion of  the                                                                    
     permanent   fund    income   be   used,    without   an                                                                    
     appropriation,  solely   for  the  purpose   of  paying                                                                    
     permanent  fund  dividends  to state  residents.  Those                                                                    
     payments would occur according  to the dividend program                                                                    
     and formula currently set  forth in statute. Subsection                                                                    
     (b)  would also  allow  the legislature  to change  the                                                                    
     dividend  program,  including amount  and  eligibility,                                                                    
     subject  to the  approval of  the voters  in subsection                                                                    
     (c).                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     Subsection  (c) would  require that  any law  passed by                                                                    
     the legislature  to amend  the permanent  fund dividend                                                                    
     program,  including  the  amount  and  the  eligibility                                                                    
     requirements, would  not take effect unless  the voters                                                                    
     approved  the  proposed  law   at  the  next  statewide                                                                    
     election.  If approved  by the  voters,  it would  take                                                                    
     effect 90 days after certification of the election.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     Section  3: This  transition  provision specifies  that                                                                    
     the dividend program in place  on January 1, 2019 would                                                                    
     remain in  place until the  legislature and  the voters                                                                    
     approved a change to the program.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     Section  4:   This  section  would  require   that  the                                                                    
     constitutional  amendment  be  placed  on  the  general                                                                    
     election ballot in 2020.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
4:33:19 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR SHOWER reminded everyone that SJR  5 will also be vetted in                                                               
both the  judiciary and finance  committees. This  committee will                                                               
address the policies but because  some members will only hear the                                                               
bill  in  this  committee,  he'll  allow  more  latitude  in  the                                                               
questions.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  REINBOLD  said she  didn't  realize  initially that  the                                                               
voters would determine who is and  is not eligible for a PFD. She                                                               
asked  if  the  voters  will be  making  policy  decisions  about                                                               
military   families,   prisoners,  restitution,   hold   harmless                                                               
clauses, and garnishments.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR.  MILKS answered  yes; the  voters will  make decisions  about                                                               
eligibility and the amount of the dividend.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  REINBOLD  asked  if  the  voters  will  be  involved  in                                                               
decisions about garnishing a dividend for child support.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. MILKS  replied SJR 5 would  not change the existing  law that                                                               
provides for that so garnishment procedures would continue.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR REINBOLD  commented that there's  conflicting information                                                               
because eligibility is  also in existing law  and that's changing                                                               
whereas garnishing is not changing.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. MILKS said the intent  is that the existing eligibility rules                                                               
will continue.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR REINBOLD asked if the voters  would weigh in on the hold-                                                               
harmless clause.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. MILKS asked for clarification of the question.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR REINBOLD  explained that the  state will pay  the federal                                                               
government  about $17  million  [this year]  because  of the  PFD                                                               
hold-harmless statutes that allow  low income Alaskans to receive                                                               
their PFD  and also continue  to receive their  welfare benefits.                                                               
She  highlighted   that  this  annual  payment   to  the  federal                                                               
government results in a lower PFD for all Alaskans.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. MILKS  said the  existing statutory  eligibility requirements                                                               
will  remain. He  added that  this is  the first  hearing and  he                                                               
would  review all  the questions  on  that subject  to ensure  he                                                               
fully understood what she asked.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
4:39:32 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  COGHILL  observed  that  this  puts  the  concept  of  a                                                               
fundamental right  of the dividend  and the fundamental  right of                                                               
the legislature  to act in  tension by sweeping in  four Articles                                                               
of legislative  power pertaining  to things like  effective dates                                                               
and veto  powers. He said  it's something to think  about because                                                               
this appears to touch a  live wire of changing our constitutional                                                               
structure for  an individual fundamental  right. He  said another                                                               
wrinkle  is that  this would  assume a  constitutional right  for                                                               
some  statutory provisions  outside of  a ratification,  but it's                                                               
not  quite   an  initiative  and   it's  not   quite  legislative                                                               
authority.  He  said he  might  start  by  asking  if this  is  a                                                               
revision to constitutionalize existing statutory language.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR.  MILKS  responded  that  there is  always  a  question  about                                                               
whether a proposed change to  the constitution is an amendment or                                                               
a revision. SJR  5 was drafted to be  a constitutional amendment.                                                               
He cited a recent court case  where the Alaska Supreme Court said                                                               
that absent another constitutional  amendment, the Permanent Fund                                                               
Dividend  Program must  compete  for  annual legislative  funding                                                               
just like  other state  programs. He said  the Department  of Law                                                               
sees the issues  that Senator Coghill identified,  but their view                                                               
is that  this is  not so sweeping  as to be  a revision.  It's an                                                               
effort  to  provide a  program  that  has an  automatic  dividend                                                               
payment.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR COGHILL said  he understands that, but  he struggles with                                                               
changing the "legislature  act of law" for a  single issue, which                                                               
is the  dividend. He  stated his intent  to review  the documents                                                               
related   to   the  founding   of   the   constitution  and   the                                                               
conversations surrounding  the statements that all  power resides                                                               
with  the  people   and  all  lawmaking  power   resides  in  the                                                               
legislature. SJR  5 says those  powers are  tied so instead  of a                                                               
check and balance  it's become a way to  addressing a fundamental                                                               
right.  He said  that's  a fundamental  change  that he'll  think                                                               
about very carefully.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
4:49:01 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR  SHOWER asked  Mr. Milks  to explain  the legal  difference                                                               
between an  amendment to the  constitution and a revision  of the                                                               
constitution.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. MILKS  said the basic  difference is  that an amendment  is a                                                               
small  change  and  a  revision is  a  more  sweeping  structural                                                               
change.  However,  the  Alaska  Supreme  Court  has  said  it  is                                                               
possible  for an  amendment to  change  the basic  constitutional                                                               
rules to such an extent that  it should be considered a revision.                                                               
A  revision   of  the  constitution  requires   a  constitutional                                                               
convention. He  said that in  Bess vs. Ulmer, the  Alaska Supreme                                                               
Court looked  at the California  constitutional framework  on the                                                               
amendment versus revision  piece and came up with  an Alaska test                                                               
that  looks  at the  balance  between  the quantitative  and  the                                                               
qualitative  changes. He  acknowledged the  limitation of  having                                                               
just one Alaska case.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  SHOWER  asked  him  to   clarify  whether  this  is  about                                                               
enshrining an individual  right to a dividend or  the program but                                                               
not necessarily the amount of the dividend in the constitution.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. MILKS said SJR 5 seeks to  respond to the issue that came out                                                               
of having a  statutory dividend program that  many people thought                                                               
would   occur   automatically   but  is   actually   subject   to                                                               
appropriation and is  therefore also subject to  governor veto in                                                               
full or  part. He said he  believes that, as written,  SJR 5 does                                                               
not give anybody a lifetime fundamental  right to a dividend of a                                                               
certain dollar amount, but it does  say that there is going to be                                                               
a  dividend program  and some  of  the permanent  fund income  is                                                               
going to provide for a dividend.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SHOWER asked what would happen  if this becomes part of the                                                               
constitution and there  isn't enough income to pay  a dividend in                                                               
5-10 years.  He specifically  asked if  the legislature  would be                                                               
forced to initiate a tax to pay the dividend.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. MILKS responded  that SJR 5 only talks about  using a portion                                                               
of the  income of the  Alaska Permanent  Fund for a  dividend. It                                                               
does not talk about any other income stream.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SHOWER  said he'd need  to think  about this a  little more                                                               
because  this sets  the legislature  up to  be at  odds with  the                                                               
people.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
4:59:17 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR REINBOLD stated  for the record that she  did not support                                                               
either the  taking of the  dividend or the  POMV. She went  on to                                                               
say there are two schools of  thought on this issue, the first of                                                               
which  is  to tax  all  resources  and  put  the revenue  in  the                                                               
permanent fund so  there will be a long-term  permanent fund. The                                                               
second aspect  is to  tax just oil.  However, with  that approach                                                               
she,  too, questions  what will  happen if  oil revenue  drops to                                                               
nothing  and there's  no  money going  into  the permanent  fund.                                                               
"Where do we go with that?" she asked.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR.  MILKS said  the proposed  constitutional amendment  provides                                                               
that  dividends will  only be  paid  if there  is permanent  fund                                                               
income.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SHOWER commented that this  brings up interesting things to                                                               
think about.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  MICCICHE said  the reality  is that  there is  no relief                                                               
valve if  the oil and  gas infrastructure fails, and  that should                                                               
be part of the discussion.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
5:03:57 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR SHOWER recessed the meeting until 6:00 p.m.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
^Public Testimony on sjr 5                                                                                                      
6:05:40 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR SHOWER  reconvened the meeting and  opened public testimony                                                               
on SJR 5.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
6:06:26 PM                                                                                                                    
LYNETTE CLARK, representing self, Fox,  stated support for SJR 5.                                                               
She said this  constitutional amendment is needed  to restore the                                                               
peoples'  trust   in  government.  The   previous  administration                                                               
destroyed that trust  when the governor cut the  dividend and the                                                               
next year  the legislature reduced  the dividend.  Enshrining the                                                               
dividend in the constitution will help to restore that trust.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
6:09:01 PM                                                                                                                    
MIKE COONS,  President, Alaska Chapter  of Association  of Mature                                                               
American Citizens(AMAC),  Palmer, stated full support  for SJR 5.                                                               
He  said  the  Governor's  clear intent  in  this  constitutional                                                               
amendment  is for  the people  to  control their  money. He  said                                                               
legislators serve  at the consent  of the governed and  last year                                                               
they took away the peoples'  money without their consent. Through                                                               
SJR  5  and  the other  proposed  constitutional  amendments  the                                                               
people are taking  back their government. He  echoed the previous                                                               
speaker about restoring the peoples' trust.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
6:11:03 PM                                                                                                                    
JEB STUART,  representing self, Deadhorse, said  the people voted                                                               
for  Governor  Dunleavy because  he  said  he would  restore  the                                                               
dividends  and cut  spending and  he'd like  to see  that happen.                                                               
Responding to a question from the  Chair, he said he supports SJR                                                               
5.                                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
6:11:48 PM                                                                                                                    
At ease                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
6:13:45 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR SHOWER reconvened the meeting.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
6:13:54 PM                                                                                                                    
JIM  CLARK,  representing self,  Fairbanks,  stated  that he  was                                                               
standing up  to say that  the government  needs to learn  to live                                                               
within its means.  Governor Dunleavy is trying to  draw the line.                                                               
Responding to a question from the  Chair, he said he supports SJR                                                               
5.                                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
6:14:22 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR MICCICHE joined the committee.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
6:15:47 PM                                                                                                                    
KAREN PERRY, representing self,  Chugiak, said she struggles with                                                               
SJR  5  because  everyone  knows   that  legislators  ignore  the                                                               
statutes  and she  wonders if  there should  be a  constitutional                                                               
amendment  that would  require legislators  to go  to prison  for                                                               
that. She  opined that legislators need  to go on the  record and                                                               
let their  constituents know where  they stand on this  and other                                                               
issues. She also  commented on her lack of faith  in the election                                                               
process. Responding  to a question  from the Chair, she  said she                                                               
couldn't decide whether or not she supports SJR 5.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
6:17:42 PM                                                                                                                    
GARY MCDONALD,  representing self, Anchorage, stated  support for                                                               
SJR 5. He singled out Senator Reinbold for special recognition.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
6:18:20 PM                                                                                                                    
WILLIAM TOPEL,  representing self, Anchorage, stated  support for                                                               
SJR 5.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
6:18:36 PM                                                                                                                    
KYLER DIAS,  representing self, Wasilla, testified  in support of                                                               
SJR 5. He described the  way people are approaching the permanent                                                               
fund as crazy nonsense. He said  he supports SJR 5 if it protects                                                               
the principal of  the PFD. He spoke in support  of cutting waste,                                                               
reducing the size  of government, and capping the  PFD for people                                                               
who  make  more   than  $100,000  a  year.   He  also  questioned                                                               
continuing to  put money into the  PFD because it's in  the stock                                                               
market and is  self-sustaining. He favors guaranteeing  a PFD for                                                               
generations to come.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
6:20:54 PM                                                                                                                    
VIKKI  JO  KENNEDY,  representing   self,  Kodiak,  testified  in                                                               
support  of SJR  5. She  drew an  analogy between  SJR 5  and the                                                               
Distant  Early Warning  (DEW) line.  They were  both designed  to                                                               
protect Alaskans, she said.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
6:23:01 PM                                                                                                                    
RANDY FINCH,  representing self, Nikiski, stated  support for SJR                                                               
5. He said the people should  vote on this; the burden should not                                                               
be on the legislature.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
6:23:52 PM                                                                                                                    
JACK JOHNSON,  representing self, North Pole,  stated support for                                                               
SJR 5. He is a senior on a  fixed income and the dividend is more                                                               
than just a little helpful.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
6:24:51 PM                                                                                                                    
FREDLAIN ELLIS,  representing self,  Wasilla, stated  support for                                                               
SJR 5.  She wants to  vote on this issue.  "It means too  much to                                                               
too many of us whether we're seniors or not," she said.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
6:25:46 PM                                                                                                                    
SUSAN JOHNSON, representing self,  North Pole, stated support for                                                               
SJR 5.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
6:26:23 PM                                                                                                                    
MATTHEW HELLER, representing self,  Fairbanks, stated support for                                                               
SJR 5. "That's it; I support it," he said.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
6:27:22 PM                                                                                                                    
MARK SESLER, representing self,  Soldotna, stated support for SJR                                                               
5. "Put it into the constitution," he said.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
6:27:48 PM                                                                                                                    
SALLY JOHNSON, representing  self, Palmer, stated, "Put  SJR 5 in                                                               
the constitution as it was  [written] by Jay Hammond." She shared                                                               
that  she is  on  a  very limited  income  and  she believes  the                                                               
legislature needs to tighten its belt.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
6:28:53 PM                                                                                                                    
DEBORAH  HOLLAND,  representing  self, Anchorage,  said  she  was                                                               
calling  in support  of  SJR 5.  She  said she  wants  it in  the                                                               
constitution  so  legislators  can't   get  their  hands  on  the                                                               
people's money.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
6:29:42 PM                                                                                                                    
TANIA KITKA,  representing self,  Kodiak, stated support  for SJR                                                               
5.                                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
6:30:06 PM                                                                                                                    
At ease                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
6:32:33 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR SHOWER reconvened                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
6:32:47 PM                                                                                                                    
JOHN  MOROPOULOS, representing  self,  Anchorage, stated  support                                                               
for SJR  5. He believes  that expenditures of the  permanent fund                                                               
should be in the hands of Alaskans.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
6:33:23 PM                                                                                                                    
At ease                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
6:36:43 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR SHOWER reconvened the meeting.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
6:36:49 PM                                                                                                                    
SANDRA ST.  JOHN, representing self,  Sutton, stated  support for                                                               
SJR 5 and having the PFD added to the constitution.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
6:37:13 PM                                                                                                                    
MELANIE GLATT, representing self,  Palmer, stated support for SJR                                                               
5 and  expressed disappointment  that the legislature  has failed                                                               
to deliver a gas line. That  could have solved many problems, she                                                               
said.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
6:37:50 PM                                                                                                                    
LAWRENCE SALZMAN,  representing self,  Fairbanks, stated  that he                                                               
currently  supports SJR  5.  He  believes it  is  a beginning  to                                                               
protect the permanent  fund and he believes the  $12 billion from                                                               
the  Constitutional Budget  Reserve should  be repaid.  His views                                                               
are  similar to  a majority  of Alaskans  who voted  for Governor                                                               
Dunleavy.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
6:38:52 PM                                                                                                                    
At ease                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
6:41:47 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR SHOWER reconvened the meeting.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
6:41:56 PM                                                                                                                    
DENISE  BOGUE-SKONIECZKI,  representing  self  and  her  husband,                                                               
Anchorage, said  leave our  PFDs alone and  return what  has been                                                               
taken. She  opined that  legislators should not  be paid  for any                                                               
special  sessions  and  schools  can  cut  management  positions.                                                               
Responding  to a  question from  Senator Micciche,  she said  she                                                               
supports SJR 5.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
6:43:42 PM                                                                                                                    
SHERRY PARSONS, representing self,  Wasilla, said the people need                                                               
a say in how the permanent  fund is distributed. She believes the                                                               
government should  stay out  of it because  the money  belongs to                                                               
the people  who will  spend it wisely.  Responding to  a question                                                               
from the Chair, she said she supports SJR 5.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
6:45:22 PM                                                                                                                    
At ease                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
6:49:04 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR SHOWER reconvened the meeting.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
6:49:09 PM                                                                                                                    
CHERYL  SHUPE, representing  self, Fairbanks,  said she  believes                                                               
that the  PFD should be  constitutionally protected  and restored                                                               
to its original form. The state should live within its means.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
6:49:46 PM                                                                                                                    
KEN BROWN, representing self, Soldotna,  stated support for SJR 5                                                               
to constitutionalize  the PFD.  The state  needs to  downsize and                                                               
keep money in the private sector, he said.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
6:50:20 PM                                                                                                                    
GREG PARSONS, representing self,  Wasilla, stated support for SJR                                                               
5. The legislature needs to figure  out how to pay for government                                                               
without using the dividend, he said.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
6:51:12 PM                                                                                                                    
At ease                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
7:00:15 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR SHOWER reconvened the meeting.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
7:00:19 PM                                                                                                                    
ALBERT NINGEULOOK,  representing self, Shishmaref, said  he hopes                                                               
the Governor  keeps the PFD  intact and does  not use it  for the                                                               
state  budget.  The  people  in rural  areas  need  their  money.                                                               
Responding to a question from the  Chair, he said he couldn't say                                                               
whether he supports SJR  5, but he is in favor  of saving the PFD                                                               
and using it wisely.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
7:01:45 PM                                                                                                                    
KIM BERGEY,  representing self,  Palmer, said  she is  calling to                                                               
state support for  SJR 5 to enshrine the PFD  in the constitution                                                               
and not  use it for government  spending. She said, "I  know that                                                               
we the people can use it diligently and wisely for our needs."                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
7:02:21 PM                                                                                                                    
At ease                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
7:07:01 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR SHOWER reconvened the meeting.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
7:07:09 PM                                                                                                                    
GEORGE  PIERCE, representing  self, Kasilof,  stated support  for                                                               
SJR 5.  The PFD should be  enshrined in the constitution  and not                                                               
be used by government.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
7:08:03 PM                                                                                                                    
DEAN KASISCHKE,  representing self, Seward, said  he supports SJR                                                               
5, full  constitutional protection of  the PFD, and no  change to                                                               
the PFD without a public vote.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
7:08:39 PM                                                                                                                    
At ease                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
7:11:24 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR SHOWER reconvened the meeting.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
7:11:29 PM                                                                                                                    
RODERICK PERRY,  representing self,  Chugiak, stated  support for                                                               
SJR  5 to  enshrine the  PFD  in the  constitution by  a vote  of                                                               
Alaskans.  "Stop  ignoring  the  rule   of  law  and  follow  the                                                               
statutes," he said.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
7:12:04 PM                                                                                                                    
RON GILLHAM, representing self,  Soldotna, stated support for SJR                                                               
5. He believes  the permanent fund should be  in the constitution                                                               
so his kids and grandkids can have it for the future.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SHOWER  advised that Senator  Coghill and  Senator Micciche                                                               
were attending other meetings.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
7:13:05 PM                                                                                                                    
At ease                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
7:17:36 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR SHOWER reconvened the meeting.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
7:17:40 PM                                                                                                                    
DEBRA KIRK,  representing self, Kodiak, stated  opposition to SJR                                                               
5 because she  is pleased with the infrastructure  that has built                                                               
up around the state the last 40-50  years and she'd hate it to go                                                               
backwards.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
7:18:14 PM                                                                                                                    
JANET FAURE, representing self,  Juneau, stated opposition to SJR                                                               
5.   She   and   her   husband  appreciate   the   services   and                                                               
infrastructure the state has provided for its citizens.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
7:18:55 PM                                                                                                                    
At ease                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
7:25:15 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR SHOWER reconvened the meeting.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
7:25:19 PM                                                                                                                    
WILLIAM WARREN,  representing self,  Nikiski, stated  support for                                                               
SJR 5. He said  he is amazed at the "hard and  fast grab" for the                                                               
permanent  fund  dividend  and  he believes  putting  it  in  the                                                               
constitution is the  only way to protect it.  He highlighted that                                                               
the  Alaska LNG  pipeline will  eventually be  built and  provide                                                               
revenue to the  state but in the meantime the  dividend should be                                                               
enshrined.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
7:27:24 PM                                                                                                                    
At ease                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
7:29:39 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR SHOWER reconvened the meeting.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
7:29:52 PM                                                                                                                    
MARY FORBES, representing self,  Kodiak, stated opposition to SJR                                                               
5. She disagreed with the  previous caller and related her belief                                                               
that the permanent fund dividend is  not a God-given right to the                                                               
citizens of  Alaska. Rather, the  permanent fund was  intended to                                                               
be partially  used to fund government  once the oil ran  out. She                                                               
said  her research  indicates that  was Jay  Hammond's intention.                                                               
She doesn't want to see  Alaskans' quality of life to deteriorate                                                               
to  the point  that they  leave the  state and  Governor Dunleavy                                                               
opens  the state  to the  highest  bidder to  "rape and  pillage"                                                               
Alaska's resources. Responding to a  question from the Chair, she                                                               
confirmed that she opposes SJR 5.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
7:30:57 PM                                                                                                                    
CAROL CARMAN,  representing self, Palmer, stated  support for SJR                                                               
5  and  complete disagreement with the last  caller. The research                                                               
she's  done  on  the  permanent  fund  and  the  dividend  itself                                                               
demonstrates that the  dividend was intended to  give the royalty                                                               
share  to  Alaskans  for  their [loss  of]  mineral  rights.  She                                                               
explained that once  Alaska became a state the people  as a whole                                                               
assumed  ownership of  the minerals  rights and  received royalty                                                               
payments in  lieu of individual  ownership rights. Her  belief is                                                               
that it is  necessary to enshrine the PFD in  the constitution to                                                               
keep government from taking what is the people's portion.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
7:32:22 PM                                                                                                                    
At ease                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
7:34:47 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR SHOWER reconvened the meeting.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
7:34:54 PM                                                                                                                    
KACI  GILLHAM, representing  self  and  family, Sterling,  stated                                                               
support for SJR 5 to enshrine the PFD in the constitution.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
7:35:34 PM                                                                                                                    
NEVA MILLS, representing self, Chatanika,  stated support for SJR                                                               
5 to  protect the  permanent fund. She  highlighted the  waste in                                                               
the budget  and opined that  the dividend should never  have been                                                               
stolen from the  people. She said, "it's been  stated in research                                                               
papers" that  about 7,000  jobs would  be eliminated  if Governor                                                               
Dunleavy's  budget   is  adopted.   Her  understanding   is  that                                                               
departments are  receiving money  for vacant positions.  She said                                                               
she  knows that  the university  wastes several  hundred thousand                                                               
dollars at  the end of  the fiscal year  just to qualify  for the                                                               
same amount  of money the next  fiscal year. That needs  to stop.                                                               
She emphasized  that parents, not  teachers, need to step  up and                                                               
raise their children  so teachers have time to  teach. She warned                                                               
that if the permanent fund  [dividend] is cut, over 9,000 private                                                               
sector jobs will  be lost and low income seniors  such as herself                                                               
may be forced to leave Alaska.  She said she prays every day that                                                               
legislators  will  have the  wisdom  and  knowledge to  fix  this                                                               
problem.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR KAWASAKI asked for the source  of the report or study she                                                               
mentioned at the beginning of her testimony.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS.  MILLS  said  she  didn't  recall but  she  would  email  the                                                               
information to the committee.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR   SHOWER   asked   her   to   send   the   information   to                                                               
senate.state.affairs@akleg.gov.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
7:41:34 PM                                                                                                                    
SIRELEI KAORI,  representing self, Anchorage, stated  support for                                                               
SJR 5.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
7:41:44 PM                                                                                                                    
JAMES  SQUIRES, representing  self, Gulkana,  stated support  for                                                               
SJR 5.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
7:41:56 PM                                                                                                                    
At ease                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
7:46:54 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR SHOWER reconvened the meeting.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
7:46:58 PM                                                                                                                    
MARK GLATT, representing self, Palmer,  stated support for SJR 5.                                                               
He   opined  that   the  dividend   should  be   constitutionally                                                               
protected.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
7:47:40 PM                                                                                                                    
At ease                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
7:51:26 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR SHOWER reconvened the meeting.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
7:51:30 PM                                                                                                                    
DONNA WILMOT,  representing self and her  family, Kasilof, stated                                                               
support for SJR 5 to enshrine the PFD in the constitution.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
7:52:01 PM                                                                                                                    
BRETT WILMOT, representing self,  Kasilof, stated support for SJR                                                               
5 to enshrine the PFD in the constitution.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
7:52:26 PM                                                                                                                    
At ease                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
7:56:08 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR SHOWER reconvened the meeting.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
7:56:11 PM                                                                                                                    
LARRY  PANNELL, representing  self and  family, Soldotna,  stated                                                               
support for SJR  5. He believes the PFD needs  to be enshrined in                                                               
the constitution to protect it now and for future generations.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
7:56:51 PM                                                                                                                    
At ease                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
7:58:45 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR SHOWER reconvened the meeting.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
7:58:50 PM                                                                                                                    
STACEY WRIGHT,  representing self, Kenai, stated  support for SJR                                                               
5 to enshrine the PFD in the constitution.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
7:59:12 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR SHOWER  closed public testimony  on SJR 5 and  advised that                                                               
written      testimony      could       be      submitted      to                                                               
senate.state.affairs@akleg.gov.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
[SJR 5 was held in committee.]                                                                                                  

Document Name Date/Time Subjects
SSTA OFFICIAL AGENDA MEMO.pdf SSTA 3/28/2019 3:30:00 PM
agenda
SJR 4 Transmittal Letter.pdf SJUD 4/15/2019 1:30:00 PM
SJUD 4/22/2019 6:00:00 PM
SSTA 3/26/2019 1:30:00 PM
SSTA 3/27/2019 6:00:00 PM
SSTA 3/28/2019 3:30:00 PM
SJR 4
SJR 4 version A.pdf SJUD 4/22/2019 6:00:00 PM
SSTA 3/26/2019 1:30:00 PM
SSTA 3/27/2019 6:00:00 PM
SSTA 3/28/2019 3:30:00 PM
SJR 4
SJR 4 Sectional Analysis.pdf SJUD 4/22/2019 6:00:00 PM
SSTA 3/26/2019 1:30:00 PM
SSTA 3/27/2019 6:00:00 PM
SSTA 3/28/2019 3:30:00 PM
SJR 4
SJR 4 Fiscal Note GOV-DOE.pdf SJUD 4/15/2019 1:30:00 PM
SSTA 3/27/2019 6:00:00 PM
SSTA 3/28/2019 3:30:00 PM
SJR 4
SJR 4 - Amednment #1.pdf SSTA 3/28/2019 3:30:00 PM
SJR 4
SJR 4 - Amendment #2.pdf SSTA 3/28/2019 3:30:00 PM
SJR 4
SJR 5 Transmittal Letter.pdf SJUD 4/8/2019 1:30:00 PM
SSTA 3/28/2019 3:30:00 PM
SJR 5
SJR 5 version A.pdf SSTA 3/28/2019 3:30:00 PM
SJR 5
SJR 5 Sectional Analysis.pdf SSTA 3/28/2019 3:30:00 PM
SJR 5
SJR 5 Fiscal Note GOV-DOE.pdf SSTA 3/28/2019 3:30:00 PM
SJR 5
Senate State Affairs - SJR 4 Written Testimony uploaded (04-08-19).pdf SSTA 3/28/2019 3:30:00 PM
SJR 4