Legislature(2013 - 2014)BARNES 124

03/11/2014 01:00 PM TRANSPORTATION


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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
*+ HB 194 RIGHTS-OF-WAY TELECONFERENCED
Heard & Held
*+ HB 371 STATE LAND AND MATERIALS TELECONFERENCED
Heard & Held
+ Bills Previously Heard/Scheduled TELECONFERENCED
                      HB 194-RIGHTS-OF-WAY                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
1:56:15 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR P. WILSON announced that  the final order of business would                                                               
be  the  SPONSOR SUBSTITUTE  FOR  HOUSE  BILL  NO. 194,  "An  Act                                                               
vacating a  portion of the  Copper Center -  Valdez right-of-way;                                                               
relating  to rights-of-way  acquired under  former 43  U.S.C. 932                                                               
that cross  land owned  by a private  landowner; and  relating to                                                               
the use of eminent domain to realign a right-of-way."                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
1:57:46 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  NEAL FOSTER,  Alaska  State Legislature,  Juneau,                                                               
Alaska, as  prime sponsor, stated that  the goal of HB  194 is to                                                               
preserve public access  via the [Revised Statute] R.S.  2477.  He                                                               
explained that  the bill would  minimize the negative  effects on                                                               
private landowners with  respect to R.S. 2477  rights-of-way.  He                                                               
related R.S. 2477s are rights-of-way  that include public trails,                                                               
roads, and highways.  He  emphasized that this bill won't prevent                                                               
the  public from  using public  transportation  routes to  travel                                                               
from points "A"  to "B" but will limit usage  to "point to point"                                                               
transportation and  emergency stopping.   Many  of the  R.S. 2477                                                               
trails go through  private lands, he said.   He expressed concern                                                               
that  if rest  stops, pullouts,  and campgrounds  are constructed                                                               
along these  routes, it would open  public access and use  of the                                                               
surrounding private lands.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
1:59:11 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
PAUL  LABOLLE, Staff,  Representative Neal  Foster, Alaska  State                                                               
Legislature, provided  a section-by-section  analysis of  HB 194.                                                               
Section 2, subsection  (a) would reduce the  R.S. 2477 rights-of-                                                               
way  from 100  feet  to  60 feet  to  balance landowner  property                                                               
rights  with the  access rights  of  the state.   Subsection  (b)                                                               
would limit the use of R.S.  2477 to transportation purposes.  He                                                               
briefly discussed  the history,  such that  R.S. 2477s  stem from                                                               
the Mining  Act of 1866.   Section 8 of that  act would establish                                                               
that  rights-of-way are  for construction  of  highways.   Alaska                                                               
statutes  related  to  the  state  highway  system  identify  the                                                               
purpose  as for  vehicular  transportation.   This section  would                                                               
clarify how R.S.  2477 should be used.  Subsection  (c) would set                                                               
up  the conditions  for secondary  easements to  inspect, repair,                                                               
maintain,  and improve  a right-of-way.    It would  also set  up                                                               
guidelines for  dispute resolution.   Subsection (d)  would allow                                                               
realignment of rights-of-way through  the existing eminent domain                                                               
statutes  and  subsection  (e) defines  routine  maintenance  and                                                               
repair.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
2:01:12 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. LABOLLE said that Section 1  will vacate a specific R.S. 2477                                                               
right-of-way  which  is  overlapped  by  a  [43  U.S.C.  1616(b)]                                                               
easement created  during the Alaska Native  Claims Settlement Act                                                               
(ANCSA), which is similar to R.S. 2477 rights-of-way easements.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
2:02:22 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
The committee took an at-ease from 2:02 p.m. to 2:04 p.m.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
2:04:15 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  FOSTER commented  that  this issue  is a  private                                                               
landowner issue and is not limited to Native corporations.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
2:05:02 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
JOE   BOVEE,   Vice-President,   Land   and   Resources,   Ahtna,                                                               
Incorporated (Ahtna),  began his presentation by  explaining R.S.                                                               
2477 is an  obscure civil war mining statute  that grants rights-                                                               
of-way across unreserved federal  lands, primarily in the Western                                                               
states  and territories  and Alaska.   The  map shows  the public                                                               
lands in Alaska prior to 1971 [slide 1].                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
2:05:40 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ISAACSON  asked whether  all lands in  Alaska were                                                               
either state or federal lands prior to 1971.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. BOVEE answered that 99 percent  of the land was under federal                                                               
or state ownership.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
2:06:19 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  ISAACSON   pointed  out   it  was   difficult  to                                                               
distinguish lines on the map in members' packets.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR P. WILSON agreed.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. BOVEE turned  to legal definitions obtained  from the state's                                                               
website.   He said that  R.S. 2477  was a congressional  grant of                                                               
rights  of  way  which  provided,  "The  right  of  way  for  the                                                               
construction  of highways  over  public lands,  not reserved  for                                                               
public  uses, is  hereby  granted."   The  Department of  Natural                                                               
Resource's  website   indicates  that  the  word   "highway"  was                                                               
historically used to refer to  foot trails, pack trails, sled dog                                                               
trails,  crudely  built  wagon  roads, and  other  corridors  for                                                               
transportation.  The term "highway"  is defined in state statutes                                                               
AS 19.59.018 (8), as follows:                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
     "highway"  includes  a  highway  (whether  included  in                                                                    
     primary  or secondary  systems),  road, street,  trail,                                                                    
     walk,  bridge, tunnel,  drainage  [structure and  other                                                                    
      similar or related structure or facility, and right-                                                                      
     of-way thereof,  and further  includes a  ferry system,                                                                    
     whether operated solely inside  the state or to connect                                                                    
     with  a   Canadian  highway,   and  any   such  related                                                                    
     facility;].                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. BOVEE  explained that the process  to assert an R.S.  2477 is                                                               
far  from  consistent and  has  been  the subject  of  litigation                                                               
between  the  state  and  private   landowners  and  the  federal                                                               
government in  North America.   In  1998, the  Alaska legislature                                                               
instructed that  while providing  for the  public's right  to use                                                               
these historic access easements, "every  effort should be made to                                                               
minimize the effect on private property owners."                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
2:07:39 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. BOVEE stated that DNR has  identified 669 R.S. 2477 trails in                                                               
in Alaska.   For  example, DeBarr Road  in Anchorage  and Farmers                                                               
Loop Road in Fairbanks began  as R.S. 2477 trails.  Additionally,                                                               
numerous foot trails are R.S. 2477  trials, many of which may not                                                               
be visibly  identifiable on  the ground.   He reported  that over                                                               
142 R.S. 2477s are located on Ahtna land alone.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. BOVEE pointed out the Ahtna  lands overlaid on an Alaska map.                                                               
The next  slide, entitled "Private  Lands Present"  shows private                                                               
and  public  lands, with  private  land  ownership in  blue,  and                                                               
federal or  state ownership  depicted in yellow.   The  R.S. 2477                                                               
trails are shown by black lines.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
2:08:51 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR P.  WILSON asked  for further  clarification that  the R.S.                                                               
2477 were old trails.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR. BOVEE answered  yes; noting most were adopted  or used during                                                               
mining in the late 1800s or early 1900s.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
2:09:23 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. BOVEE  highlighted Ahtna  lands include  402 linear  miles of                                                               
R.S. 2477  trails, which would  encompass 9,406 acres.   The next                                                               
slide  entitled,  "Ahtna  Lands Regional  Location"  shows  Ahtna                                                               
owned lands in red.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
2:10:12 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  BOVEE turned  to  the slide  entitled  "R.S. 2477  Landowner                                                               
Problems, Icy Roads Caused by  Incised Roads "across Ahtna lands.                                                               
This  slide identifies  [in  black lines]  the  R.S. 2477  trails                                                               
located on Ahtna  lands.  In response to a  question, he answered                                                               
that the  402 linear miles on  Ahtna land with a  100-foot right-                                                               
of-way would consume 9,406 acres.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR. BOVEE continued.   Ahtna, Inc. lands contain  over 221 linear                                                               
miles 17 (b) easements.   As the sponsor identified earlier, part                                                               
17  (b)  ANCSA  defines  a  trail or  public  use  across  Native                                                               
Corporation lands.   He pointed  out some trails overlap  with an                                                               
existing easement totaling 529 miles.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
2:11:45 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR P. WILSON asked for  further clarification on the duplicate                                                               
trails.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. BOVEE answered  that two easements cross  private property on                                                               
Native  Corporation  land  and  on  some  non-ANCSA  lands.    He                                                               
explained the  width and  range from 25-60  feet whereas  an R.S.                                                               
2477 is  typically 100  feet wide.   The R.S.  2477 rights-of-way                                                               
often fall on the 17 (b) trails so they are duplicative.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR P.  WILSON clarified  that the 17  (b) trails  are narrower                                                               
ones than the R.S. 2477 trails.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. BOVEE answered yes.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
2:12:41 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  BOVEE said  that approximately  98  linear miles  of 17  (b)                                                               
easements are duplicative of R.S. 2477 roads.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
2:13:30 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.   BOVEE  explained   that  R.S.   2477  trails   represent  a                                                               
significant burden on the landowner.   In response to a question,                                                               
Mr.  Bovee answered  that the  R.S. 2477  easements were  federal                                                               
rules  originating  from  the  1866   mining  law.    He  further                                                               
clarified that  the federal government has  recognized only three                                                               
or  four necessary  trails of  the aforementioned  669 R.S.  2477                                                               
trails.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
2:14:41 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR P.  WILSON asked  whether the  state or  federal government                                                               
has authority over the trails.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. BOVEE answered that the state has authority.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
2:14:52 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. BOVEE turned to the  next slide entitled "R.S. 2477 Landowner                                                               
Problems Icy Roads Caused by  Incised Roads."  This trail located                                                               
near Cantwell  is called the  Windy Creek  Trail and was  the old                                                               
access to the Denali National Park  until the 1960s.  He said the                                                               
100-foot wide trail doesn't have  any restrictions on vehicle use                                                               
depending on  the time  of year.   The next  slide shows  a trail                                                               
into Bear Valley that is overlaid  with a 17 (b) easement without                                                               
any restriction on  use.  In response to a  question, he answered                                                               
no; that  the land  is not  DNR land,  but is  Ahtna land  with a                                                               
public easement.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
2:15:44 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. BOVEE showed  several photographs of other  R.S. 2477 trails,                                                               
not in  members' packets.   Since these trails used  the shortest                                                               
route many  of them,  such as  the one  near Copper  Center, R.S.                                                               
2477 T  633, did not  consider erosion, flooding events,  or best                                                               
locations.  He  explained that Ahtna has made  a concerted effort                                                               
to work with various agencies  on the issues surrounding the R.S.                                                               
2477 trails.   The  state agencies refer  to the  federal statute                                                               
and  basically respond  that their  "hands  are basically  tied."                                                               
The trails can be relocated  if natural conditions make the route                                                               
impassable or  unsafe.  The  state can enter property  to perform                                                               
maintenance   and  repair   work   such   as  paving,   leveling,                                                               
installation  of  culverts  and  other duties  such  as  clearing                                                               
vegetation or  realigning roads.   The  state maintains  that the                                                               
public  has extensive  use rights  within  the right-of-way  that                                                               
include not  only transportation  but also rest  stops, pullouts,                                                               
boat launches, fishing access, and campgrounds.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
2:18:23 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  BOVEE  explained  the  Klutina   Lake  Road  starts  on  the                                                               
Richardson  Highway  and  goes  to  the  head  of  Klutina  Lake,                                                               
crossing 18 private landowners,  non-ANCSA landowners and crosses                                                               
driveways.  In  response to a question, Mr.  Bovee explained that                                                               
the private landowners did not  even know the trail existed until                                                               
about five  or six years ago  when the state asserted  its rights                                                               
over the R.S.  2477s.  Thus, the issue has  arisen since the R.S.                                                               
2477  trail with  its  100-foot wide  easement  will consume  the                                                               
private landowner's acreage.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
2:19:40 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR P. WILSON related her  understanding that Ahtna didn't know                                                               
their land allotments fell on R.S. 2477 trails.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. BOVEE  answered yes.  He  explained the 18 landowners  in the                                                               
aforementioned area own  the land, which was  previously a Native                                                               
allotment.   The land was  subdivided and the  private landowners                                                               
didn't know R.S. 2477 would cross their front yards.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
2:20:16 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR P. WILSON asked for clarification on the state's position.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR.  BOVEE  answered  that  the  state asserts  it  is  a  public                                                               
easement and the  public can use the  roads indiscriminately, any                                                               
time  of the  year,  using any  kind of  equipment.   In  further                                                               
response to  a question, Mr.  Bovee agreed access is  without any                                                               
rules or regulations.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR. LABOLLE, in  response to a question, clarified  that the bill                                                               
has  an  additional  referral to  the  House  Resources  Standing                                                               
Committee.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
2:21:27 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  BOVEE  identified  potential  solutions.    One  alternative                                                               
proposes  limiting the  scope of  use of  R.S. 2477  trails.   He                                                               
emphasized  that  Ahtna  is  not   opposed  to  limiting  access.                                                               
Although  Ahtna  encourages  resource development,  the  100-foot                                                               
right-of-way and  unregulated use  within the  right-of-way opens                                                               
access.  One issue is who  will perform road maintenance once the                                                               
roads are public roads during times of budget constraints.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. BOVEE turned  to a slide entitled "Well  Maintained R.S. 2477                                                               
Road"  that encompasses  a hunting  area north  of Cantwell.   He                                                               
advised  that Ahtna  has  been  working with  DOT&PF  and DNR  to                                                               
realign the  trail around  a gravel pit  near the  Parks Highway.                                                               
He  offered  his belief  that  the  department will  reroute  the                                                               
trail.   In  further response  to  a question,  he answered  that                                                               
Ahtna owns the material site.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
2:23:55 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. BOVEE stated that Ahtna  signed a Memorandum of Understanding                                                               
with  DNR, Alaska  Department  of  Fish &  Game  and DOT&PF  last                                                               
summer.   This  agreement  requires quarterly  meetings with  the                                                               
state  agencies to  try to  resolve issues  and to  pool and  use                                                               
resources  more wisely.   This  bill  would require  consultation                                                               
with  the  private landowner  prior  to  engaging in  other  than                                                               
routine maintenance and represents a  "good neighbor" policy.  It                                                               
would also require the state to  consult with the landowner if an                                                               
R.S. 2477 right-of-way  has been damaged beyond repair  and is to                                                               
be realigned.   He mentioned  several trails have  been realigned                                                               
several times.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
2:25:19 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. BOVEE would specifically vacate  portions of R.S. 2477 right-                                                               
of-way along the Klutina Lake  road effectively ending litigation                                                               
with the state.  He thanked members.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
2:25:47 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  FOSTER  offered  to  provide a  chart  to  better                                                               
describe the  R.S. 2477  right-of-way as compared  to the  17 (b)                                                               
provisions.   The goal of the  bill is to minimize  the impact to                                                               
the landowner.   He related a  scenario in which he  owned a farm                                                               
at  Kenny  Lake with  an  R.S.  2477 crossing  his  land.   As  a                                                               
landowner he  would want  to minimize the  impact on  his private                                                               
land.    He would  not  want  a  right-of-way with  a  campground                                                               
located on his land, but would  prefer a point to point access so                                                               
people aren't stopping on his land.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
2:27:26 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR P. WILSON asked for the status of the current lawsuit.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  BOVEE reported  that  the case  started  mediation but  must                                                               
follow state law so the process hit a "brick wall."                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
2:28:06 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  P.  WILSON asked  whether  this  bill  would amend  it  to                                                               
satisfy Ahtna.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. BOVEE  answered that  it would not  restrict access  to state                                                               
land  but would  limit  easements  and define  the  width of  the                                                               
right-of-way.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
2:28:39 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE FEIGE  asked whether  plat maps exist  for Klutina                                                               
Lake.    He  understood  interest exists  with  respect  to  lake                                                               
access.  He  further understood that the federal  17 (b) easement                                                               
but  not  the R.S.  2477  continues  through the  private  lands.                                                               
Since it  doesn't appear  to be overlapping  this bill  would not                                                               
vacate the R.S. 2477 easements.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. BOVEE offered to provide a detailed plat map of the area.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
2:30:05 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  JOHNSON referred  to  page 2,  line 9;  paragraph                                                               
(1), which  read, "...  routine maintenance  and repair  may only                                                               
preserve  the condition  of  the right-of-way  as  it existed  on                                                               
October  21,  1976;  ...."     He  asked  whether  the  state  is                                                               
advocating all  the R.S.  2477 lands  if the  trail has  not been                                                               
maintained.  He understood that  the state is still in litigation                                                               
with  the  federal  government  and  the  trails  have  not  been                                                               
resolved.   He  asked whether  the state  would be  giving up  on                                                               
those lands.   For  example, if  a trail  went from  Fairbanks to                                                               
Nome and it  crosses private land, this language  would not allow                                                               
the trail to  be maintained any differently than it  was in 1976.                                                               
He  asked whether  that  means these  rights-of-way  will not  be                                                               
developed.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
2:31:08 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  BOVEE answered  that  he  was not  aware  of  all R.S.  2477                                                               
easements   in  the   state;  however,   he   is  familiar   with                                                               
approximately 90  percent of ones in  the Ahtna region.   He said                                                               
approximately 95 percent are not  developed, but are foot trails,                                                               
pack trails, or sled trails.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  JOHNSON remarked  that is  his point.   The  bill                                                               
would  mean the  trails  would  never be  more  than the  current                                                               
status.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. BOVEE answered  that is the point  of the bill.   If the R.S.                                                               
2477  right-of-way  is  currently an  all-terrain  vehicle  (ATV)                                                               
trail or a  foot trail, that it  should be left as  such and have                                                               
room to develop it later.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  JOHNSON maintained  the  language would  restrict                                                               
further development.   If  the road  is a  walking trail  then it                                                               
cannot be more  than a walking trail even if  gold is discovered.                                                               
He expressed  concern about the  restriction.  He  discussed some                                                               
of the  history of the R.S.  2477 trails such that  the state has                                                               
had to litigate each trail.   He did not want to advocate limited                                                               
access  across federal  lands.   Secondly, if  an R.S.  2477 runs                                                               
along a river  and a boat launch is not  permitted, wouldn't that                                                               
limit  access to  a publically-owned  resource based  on Alaska's                                                               
Constitution.    He  expressed   concern  about  limiting  future                                                               
development.   He suggested there  might be a way  to compromise;                                                               
however, he maintained his concern  about limiting access that is                                                               
provided by  Alaska's Constitution.   He did  not want to  send a                                                               
message to the federal government  that Alaska has limited access                                                               
by freezing the R.S. 2477 right-of-way to 1976 condition.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
2:34:59 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ISAACSON  offered his  belief that this  bill goes                                                               
too  far since  the state  is developing.   One  way would  be to                                                               
recognize  that  some   right-of-way  will  not  be   used.    He                                                               
acknowledged that  there isn't a  management plan and  that seems                                                               
to be the biggest issue.   He agreed that managing the rights-of-                                                               
way is important and to ensure  that property owners are aware of                                                               
the use.  He pointed out that  Farmers Loop Road was an R.S. 2477                                                               
right-of-way  and  currently  in   many  places  is  a  four-lane                                                               
highway.   He  noted  several  other roads  in  Alaska that  were                                                               
developed on  R.S. 2477  trails.   He cautioned  against impeding                                                               
development.  He acknowledged that  a R.S. 2477 right-of-way will                                                               
likely become  a road and  development occurs along the  road and                                                               
Ahtna, Incorporated will  likely need those roads  in the future.                                                               
He asked  whether Ahtna has  a bill  before the Congress  on this                                                               
same subject.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. BOVEE answered yes; but it  does not have anything to do with                                                               
R.S. 2477s.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
2:38:33 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ISAACSON  asked how  the federal bill  will affect                                                               
this bill.  He suggested  the federal bill asserted groups within                                                               
the state as having more  rights to the transportation corridors.                                                               
He asked whether this was related.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR.  BOVEE  answered  that  he  was  not  aware  of  the  federal                                                               
transportation bill.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ISAACSON said he would further research it.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
2:39:11 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ISAACSON said he would  be interested in solving a                                                               
specific issue  rather than  "locking up"  the lands  globally in                                                               
Alaska.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  JOHNSON   referred  to  the  fiscal   note  which                                                               
identifies 20,000 linear miles of  R.S. 2477 rights-of-way, which                                                               
could  increase to  26,600 once  settled.   He expressed  concern                                                               
that the  bill could  jeopardize 26,000 miles  of access  for 400                                                               
miles  of Ahtna  trail.   He  agreed the  R.S. 2477  right-of-way                                                               
issue is not  just an Ahtna issue, but is  a statewide issue that                                                               
could affect Alaska's  future.  He said he would  hate to give up                                                               
this access.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. LABOLLE  referred to  the fiscal note  and clarified  that of                                                               
the 20,000  linear miles, 50 percent  is on private land,  and so                                                               
about 10,000  miles applies to  R.S. 2477s that  cross privately-                                                               
owned land.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON  pointed out  the checkerboard  of private                                                               
lands, noting one acre in the middle could impede development.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
2:42:28 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  P. WILSON,  referring to  the DNR  fiscal note  of 3/8/14,                                                               
noted that diminishing  the right-of-way to 40  feet would equate                                                               
to 48,500 acres.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
2:42:50 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  ISAACSON suggested  this issue  goes back  to the                                                               
municipal model,  noting it  is the  state's policy  to encourage                                                               
the  settlement of  the land  based on  maximum use  and benefit.                                                               
Although the cities have private land  until the land is used for                                                               
public interest, the advantage for  the historical trails is that                                                               
they provides access  to private lands and that  will continue to                                                               
evolve over time.  He  expressed concern about restricting access                                                               
to a time  certain.  He said  he could not get  past that hurdle,                                                               
particularly since the state is required  to settle the land.  He                                                               
suggested that  Ahtna try  to find  a way  to solve  the specific                                                               
problem  without  unintentionally restricting  access  throughout                                                               
the state.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
2:44:40 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  P.  WILSON remarked  that  she  has not  seen  improvement                                                               
during the time  she has served in the legislature.   At the time                                                               
she was initially elected the state  was in a deficit.  Since the                                                               
state's  population is  so  low  a sales  tax  or  an income  tax                                                               
doesn't  solve the  financial  issues.   She  concluded that  the                                                               
state needs more population in order to grow.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
2:45:45 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  FEIGE referred  to  a Bureau  of Land  Management                                                               
(BLM)  document  in  members' packets  entitled,  "Public  Access                                                               
Information."   He asked whether  the Klutina Lake  Road referred                                                               
to  as the  Brenwick-Craig  Road  and the  Klutina  Trail in  the                                                               
document are  different or are  these easements part of  the same                                                               
access to Klutina Lake.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. BOVEE answered that the  Brenwick-Craig Road is more commonly                                                               
referred to as the Klutina Lake  road.  The ANCSA 17 (b) easement                                                               
stops at private property at the  mouth of the lake.  The Klutina                                                               
Trail turns  into an R.S. 2477  trail because it is  not an ANCSA                                                               
17 (b) easement.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
2:46:51 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE FEIGE  related his understanding that  the Klutina                                                               
Lake road  goes to  the outlet  of Klutina  Lake and  the Klutina                                                               
trail continues beyond that point.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR. BOVEE answered that the  Klutina trail wraps around the north                                                               
side of Klutina Lake and continues to Valdez.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
[HB 194 was held over.]                                                                                                         

Document Name Date/Time Subjects
HB0371A.pdf HTRA 3/11/2014 1:00:00 PM
HB 371
HB 371 Sponsor Stmt .pdf HTRA 3/11/2014 1:00:00 PM
HB 371
HB371-DNR-MLW-3-10-14.pdf HTRA 3/11/2014 1:00:00 PM
HB 371
HB371-DOT-SDES-3-11-14.pdf HTRA 3/11/2014 1:00:00 PM
HB 371
HB 371 Elements of the Bill.pdf HTRA 3/11/2014 1:00:00 PM
HB 371
HB 371 Glenn MP 118 N ROW Plans.pdf HTRA 3/11/2014 1:00:00 PM
HB 371
HB 371 Old Glenn Hwy.pdf HTRA 3/11/2014 1:00:00 PM
HB 371
SSHB 194 ver N.pdf HTRA 3/11/2014 1:00:00 PM
HB 194
HB 194-Sponsor Statement.pdf HTRA 3/11/2014 1:00:00 PM
HB 194
HB 194 Sectional Summary.pdf HTRA 3/11/2014 1:00:00 PM
HB 194
HB194SS-DOT-NDAES-3-11-14.pdf HTRA 3/11/2014 1:00:00 PM
HB 194
HB194SS-DNR-MLW-3-8-14.pdf HTRA 3/11/2014 1:00:00 PM
HB 194
HB 194-Letters of Support.pdf HTRA 3/11/2014 1:00:00 PM
HB 194
HB 194 Supporting Documents-Applicable Statutes.pdf HTRA 3/11/2014 1:00:00 PM
HB 194
HB 194 Applicable Statutes.docx HTRA 3/11/2014 1:00:00 PM
HB 194
HB 194 Ahnta Presentation 3-11-14.pptx HTRA 3/11/2014 1:00:00 PM
HB 194
CSHB 371 ver N draft.pdf HTRA 3/11/2014 1:00:00 PM
HB 371