Legislature(2017 - 2018)GRUENBERG 120

04/08/2017 08:30 AM STATE AFFAIRS

Note: the audio and video recordings are distinct records and are obtained from different sources. As such there may be key differences between the two. The audio recordings are captured by our records offices as the official record of the meeting and will have more accurate timestamps. Use the icons to switch between them.

Download Mp3. <- Right click and save file as

Audio Topic
08:35:10 AM Start
08:35:50 AM HB74
09:45:00 AM Adjourn
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
-- Recessed to a Call of the Chair --
-- Was Continued from 4/6/17 --
+= HB 74 DRIVER'S LICENSE & ID CARDS & REAL ID ACT TELECONFERENCED
Heard & Held
+ Bills Previously Heard/Scheduled TELECONFERENCED
        HB 74-DRIVER'S LICENSE & ID CARDS & REAL ID ACT                                                                     
                                                                                                                              
8:35:50 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR KREISS-TOMKINS  announced that  the only order  of business                                                               
would  be   HOUSE  BILL   NO.  74,  "An   Act  relating   to  the                                                               
implementation of the  federal REAL ID Act of  2005; and relating                                                               
to issuance  of identification cards  and driver's  licenses; and                                                               
providing  for  an  effective  date."    [Before  the  committee,                                                               
adopted as  a work draft  during the 4/4/17, 5:40  p.m., meeting,                                                               
was the  proposed committee  substitute (CS)  for HB  74, Version                                                               
30-GH1781\J, Martin,  4/4/17, hereafter  referred to  as "Version                                                               
J".]                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
8:36:54 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX  moved to  adopt Amendment 1,  [labeled 30-                                                               
GH1781\J.1, Martin, 4/6/17], which read:                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     Page 1, following line 11:                                                                                                 
     Insert a new bill section to read:                                                                                         
        "* Sec. 2. AS 18.65.310(b) is amended to read:                                                                        
          (b)  A person may obtain an identification card                                                                       
     provided for in (a) of  this section by applying to the                                                                    
     department  on forms  and in  the manner  prescribed by                                                                    
     the  department. The  department shall  include on  the                                                                
     application  for an  identification card  a requirement                                                                
     that the applicant indicate                                                                                            
               (1) that the applicant understands the                                                                       
     options for identification cards  available at the time                                                                
     of issuance; and                                                                                                       
               (2) the type of identification card that the                                                                 
     applicant selects."                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     Renumber the following bill sections accordingly.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     Page 2, lines 22 - 25:                                                                                                     
          Delete "The application must require that an                                                                          
     applicant indicate  that the applicant  understands the                                                                    
     options for identification cards  available at the time                                                                    
     of issuance  and indicate the identification  card that                                                                    
     the applicant selects."                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     Page 5, lines 20 - 23:                                                                                                     
          Delete "The application must require that an                                                                          
     applicant indicate  that the applicant  understands the                                                                    
     options for drivers' licenses available  at the time of                                                                    
     issuance  and indicate  the driver's  license that  the                                                                    
     applicant selects."                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     Page 6, following line 16:                                                                                                 
     Insert a new bill section to read:                                                                                         
        "* Sec. 7. AS 28.15.061(b) is amended to read:                                                                        
          (b)  An application under (a) of this section                                                                         
     must                                                                                                                       
               (1)  contain the applicant's full legal                                                                          
     name, date  and place  of birth,  sex, and  mailing and                                                                    
     residence addresses;                                                                                                       
               (2)  state whether the applicant has been                                                                        
     previously licensed  in the past  10 years as  a driver                                                                    
     and, if so, when and by what jurisdiction;                                                                                 
               (3)  state whether any previous driver's                                                                         
     license  issued   to  the   applicant  has   ever  been                                                                    
     suspended or  revoked or whether  an application  for a                                                                    
     driver's license has ever been  refused and, if so, the                                                                    
     date of  and reason for the  suspension, revocation, or                                                                    
     refusal;                                                                                                                   
               (4)  contain the applicant's social security                                                                     
     number; the requirement of this paragraph only applies                                                                     
     to an applicant who has been issued a social security                                                                      
     number; [AND]                                                                                                              
               (5)  contain other information that the                                                                          
       department may reasonably require to determine the                                                                       
     applicant's identity, competency, and eligibility; and                                                                 
               (6)  require that the applicant indicate                                                                     
               (A)  that the applicant understands the                                                                      
     options for drivers' licenses available at the time of                                                                 
     issuance; and                                                                                                          
               (B)  the type of driver's license that the                                                                   
     applicant selects."                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     Renumber the following bill sections accordingly.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     Page 9, line 11:                                                                                                           
          Delete "Sections 12 and 13"                                                                                           
          Insert "Sections 14 and 15"                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     Page 9, line 12:                                                                                                           
          Delete "sec. 14"                                                                                                      
          Insert "sec. 16"                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR KREISS-TOMKINS objected for the purpose of discussion.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
8:37:24 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
STEPHANIE   GILARDI,  Staff,   Representative  Jonathan   Kreiss-                                                               
Tomkins, Alaska  State Legislature,  on behalf  of Representative                                                               
Kreiss-Tomkins, prime sponsor of HB  74, explained that Version J                                                               
states that the application for  an identification (ID) card must                                                               
include information  differentiating the  compliant ID  card from                                                               
the noncompliant  ID card; however, it  does not place a  duty on                                                               
the   Department  of   Administration  (DOA)   to  include   that                                                               
information on  the application.   She asserted  that Legislative                                                               
Legal  and  Research  Services  recommended  that  Version  J  be                                                               
amended to place that duty on DOA.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
8:38:26 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE BIRCH asked if under  Amendment 1, the application                                                               
would clearly  inform the  applicant that the  ID card  for which                                                               
he/she is applying would only permit  the person to drive but not                                                               
allow access to federal facilities or plane travel.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MS.  GILARDI  responded,  that  is   correct.    She  added  that                                                               
Amendment 1  also states that  it is the  duty of DOA  to provide                                                               
that information.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
8:39:06 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  TUCK  expressed  his  belief  that  it  would  be                                                               
erroneous  to  convey information  that  a  person would  not  be                                                               
permitted  to fly  without a  REAL ID.   He  emphasized that  his                                                               
previous testimony [during the  4/4/17 committee meeting] clearly                                                               
indicated that a  person can fly without a REAL  ID.  He referred                                                               
to upcoming  testimony by Edward Hasbrouck  [The Identity Project                                                               
(IDP)],  which Representative  Tuck  asserted  would reveal  that                                                               
airport signs about IDs required  for travel are erroneous; court                                                               
documents uphold  this position  as well  as admissions  from the                                                               
Transportation  Security  Administration  (TSA).   He  maintained                                                               
that he does not want people to  fear that they will be unable to                                                               
travel unless they have a REAL ID card.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE WOOL  offered his understanding that  once REAL ID                                                               
is  enacted,  Alaskans  will  be required  to  have  a  federally                                                               
recognized ID.   He asked, "Isn't that the purpose  of what we're                                                               
doing?"                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  KREISS-TOMKINS  asked  that   comments  and  questions  be                                                               
limited to Amendment 1.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
8:40:39 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  KNOPP inquired  as to  the type  of documentation                                                               
that would  be required of a  new applicant for the  compliant ID                                                               
versus the noncompliant ID.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
8:41:15 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
LESLIE RIDLE,  Deputy Commissioner, Department  of Administration                                                               
(DOA), answered that DOA will  draft regulations according to the                                                               
legislation that  is passed.   She stated  that DOA will  be very                                                               
clear with its  customers; it always attempts to  provide as much                                                               
information as possible to its  customers; it doesn't want people                                                               
to be  confused or get  the wrong ID for  what they need;  and it                                                               
wants to give people every  option available.  She confirmed that                                                               
she currently is unable to provide that information.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KNOPP  asked what  documents currently  are needed                                                               
to obtain a driver's license.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MS.  RIDLE relayed  that the  list  of IDs  that may  be used  to                                                               
verify identification will  not change under Version  J; they are                                                               
birth  certificate, proof  of Social  Security number  (SSN), and                                                               
passport.  She  added that the regulations  about the information                                                               
to be provided applicants regarding the two IDs will be new.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  KNOPP asked  if  there  are additional  documents                                                               
required under Version J, or  if the same documents are required,                                                               
but the verification process is different.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MS.  RIDLE  replied, "Exactly."    She  said  they are  the  same                                                               
documents; nothing new  will be required; and DOA  will check the                                                               
documents more thoroughly under Version J.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
8:43:25 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  KREISS-TOMKINS  removed his  objection  to  the motion  to                                                               
adopt Amendment 1.   There being no  further objection, Amendment                                                               
1 was adopted.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
8:43:48 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX  moved to  adopt Amendment 2,  [labeled 30-                                                               
GH1781\J.2, Martin, 4/6/17], which read:                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     Page 4, line 21:                                                                                                           
          Delete ", including the American Association of                                                                       
     Motor Vehicle Administrators,"                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR KREISS-TOMKINS objected for the purpose of discussion.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
8:44:08 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. GILARDI stated that Amendment  2 deletes the specific mention                                                               
of  the  American  Association of  Motor  Vehicle  Administrators                                                               
(AAMVA).   She  maintained  that this  revision  was proposed  by                                                               
Legislative  Legal  and  Research  Services.   Since  Section  4,                                                               
subsection (c), on page 4 of  Version J states "If the department                                                               
conveys,  distributes,  or communicates  data  to  be used  in  a                                                               
database, index, pointer  system, or any other  system managed by                                                               
an entity  other than  the department",  the specific  mention of                                                               
AAMVA is  unnecessary; AMVAA  is covered  under the  reference to                                                               
"an entity other than the department".                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
8:45:22 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  KREISS-TOMKINS  removed his  objection  to  the motion  to                                                               
adopt Amendment 2.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
8:45:35 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KNOPP  objected to  the motion to  adopt Amendment                                                               
2.  He  explained his objection:  because the  Alaska Division of                                                               
Motor Vehicles  (DMV) is a member  of AAMVA, it is  possible that                                                               
AAMVA  may   not  be  considered   "an  entity  other   than  the                                                               
department" at some point in the  future.  He added that there is                                                               
no harm to leaving the mention of AAMVA in Version J.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  TUCK concurred  that it  is appropriate  to leave                                                               
the mention  of AAMVA in this  subsection.  He stated  that AAMVA                                                               
is  the only  organization through  which a  DMV can  be REAL  ID                                                               
compliant;  and  only  AAMVA's  contractor,  [the  State  Pointer                                                               
Exchange Services (SPEXS)], can do  the work.  He maintained that                                                               
Version J,  as is, still  would allow for any  other organization                                                               
that  is in  the position  of mining  data of  civilians to  have                                                               
access.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
8:46:59 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REID  MAGDANZ,  Staff,  Representative  Jonathan  Kreiss-Tomkins,                                                               
Alaska  State Legislature,  on behalf  of Representative  Kreiss-                                                               
Tomkins,  prime sponsor  of HB  74,  reiterated that  Legislative                                                               
Legal  and  Research Services  indicated  that  the reference  to                                                               
AAMVA  was  unnecessary; however,  the  adoption  of Amendment  2                                                               
would have no effect on the proposed legislation.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  BIRCH concluded  that regarding  the adoption  of                                                               
Amendment 2, there would be no significant impact either way.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
8:48:38 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  LEDOUX offered  that  her  interpretation of  the                                                               
language in subsection (c) is that  if data is shared with AAMVA,                                                               
then AAMVA is excluded from  the entities with which the specific                                                               
data points  listed -  images of faces,  images of  documents, or                                                               
images of signatures - may be shared.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  BIRCH  agreed  and  suggested  that  as  written,                                                               
Version  J  states that  DOA  may  not  convey images  of  faces,                                                               
documents, or signatures to AAMVA.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE WOOL  offered that the  inclusion of AAMVA  in the                                                               
subsection  is a  reassurance; it  states that  those three  data                                                               
points  are  not  "going  anywhere,"  including  to  AAMVA.    He                                                               
suggested that if the interpretation  is questionable, then AAMVA                                                               
should be deleted.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
8:51:12 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MICHAEL  STANKER, Assistant  Attorney  General,  Labor and  State                                                               
Affairs Section,  Civil Division  (Anchorage), Department  of Law                                                               
(DOL), stated  that his interpretation  of Section  4, subsection                                                               
(c), on  page 4 of Version  J is that  if DOA conveys data  to an                                                               
entity to  comply with the REAL  ID Act, it cannot  convey images                                                               
of  faces, images  of documents,  or  images of  signatures.   He                                                               
offered  that  the deletion  of  the  mention  of AAMVA  in  that                                                               
subsection was  a drafting concern  brought forth  by Legislative                                                               
Legal and Research Services; the DOL  does not have a position on                                                               
the inclusion of AAMVA in that subsection.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  TUCK  suggested  that  the  committee  hear  from                                                               
Legislative   Legal  and   Research  Services   staff  concerning                                                               
Amendment 2, since it came from that agency.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX expressed that  she supports deleting AAMVA                                                               
in the  subsection, or  if left  in, it should  be put  after the                                                               
word "entity".                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KNOPP maintained that  Section 4, in its entirety,                                                               
states exactly  what is intended:   line 11  mentions prohibition                                                               
on data sharing and what DOA  may not convey; line 16, subsection                                                               
(b), states that  DOA may convey, distribute,  or communicate the                                                               
data except  as restricted in  [subsection] (c) of  this section;                                                               
subsection (c)  defines what  data cannot be  shared.   It states                                                               
that  AAMVA  is  included  among  the  organizations  with  which                                                               
certain data cannot be shared.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR KREISS-TOMKINS  explained that the  motion on the  table is                                                               
to  adopt Amendment  2, which  would delete  specific mention  of                                                               
AAMVA [in subsection (c) of Section 4].                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
A roll  call vote  was taken.   Representatives Wool  and Kreiss-                                                               
Tomkins voted  in favor of  Amendment 2.   Representatives Knopp,                                                               
LeDoux, Birch,  Johnson, and Tuck  voted against it.   Therefore,                                                               
Amendment 1 failed by a vote of 2-5.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
8:56:16 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX moved to adopt Amendment 4, [labeled 30-                                                                  
GH1781\J.6, Martin, 4/6/17], which read:                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     Page 5, line 10:                                                                                                           
          Delete "identification card"                                                                                          
          Insert "driver's license"                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR KREISS-TOMKINS objected for the purpose of discussion.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
8:56:32 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. GILARDI explained that Amendment  4 would delete an erroneous                                                               
reference to  an "identification card"  in Section 4 -  a section                                                               
devoted  only  to  driver's  licenses   -  and  insert  "driver's                                                               
license".                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  TUCK asked  for  clarification on  the effect  of                                                               
Amendment 4.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  WOOL commented  that  the  state issues  driver's                                                               
licenses  and   ID  cards   for  non-drivers.     He   asked  for                                                               
confirmation that  under Version  J, the  state would  issue both                                                               
driver's licenses and ID cards that are REAL ID compliant.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR KREISS-TOMKINS confirmed that was correct.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX  asked if there  is a section in  Version J                                                               
that addresses  the destruction of  information after  renewal of                                                               
an ID card.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. MAGDANZ explained that ID cards  are discussed in Title 18 of                                                               
the  Alaska  Statutes, and  driver's  licenses  are discussed  in                                                               
Title 28 of Alaska Statutes;  therefore, Version J was drafted to                                                               
amend two separate  titles to provide the option for  both a REAL                                                               
ID compliant  ID and a  REAL ID  compliant driver's license.   He                                                               
maintained that for that reason  much of the language is included                                                               
twice in  the proposed legislation.   He stated that  Amendment 4                                                               
addresses  a drafting  error in  which "identification  card" was                                                               
used in the title [Title 28] referring to driver's licenses.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR KREISS-TOMKINS  suggested that Amendment 4  is a conforming                                                               
amendment to align the language of  Version J with the title that                                                               
is referenced.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. MAGDANZ responded,  that is correct; in Version J  there is a                                                               
mention  of "identification  cards"  in Title  28,  and Title  28                                                               
refers to driver's licenses.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
9:00:29 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  LEDOUX pointed  out that  the "twin"  to page  5,                                                               
line 10, is page 2, line 12.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR KREISS-TOMKINS  confirmed her  assessment.  He  removed his                                                               
objection to  the motion to  adopt Amendment  4.  There  being no                                                               
further objection, Amendment 4 was adopted.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
9:04:09 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  BIRCH expressed  the  importance  of finding  out                                                               
with  assurance if  in the  future,  the Transportation  Security                                                               
Administration (TSA) will require a REAL ID card.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR KREISS-TOMKINS  responded that  he will attempt  to provide                                                               
written testimony or resources to address that question.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
9:06:05 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
DAN LOWDEN,  Captain, Deputy Commander, Division  of Alaska State                                                               
Troopers (AST),  Department of Public  Safety (DPA),  stated that                                                               
DPS  uses the  DMV images  in a  variety of  ways to  perform its                                                               
duties:   to create  "wanted" posters;  to create  missing person                                                               
fliers; to  assist in identifying unidentified  deceased persons;                                                               
to create  photograph (photo) lineups  for witnesses  to identify                                                               
suspects;  and  to identify  drivers  not  presenting a  driver's                                                               
license  by matching  personal information  with photos  on file.                                                               
He mentioned that  another concern for law  enforcement is record                                                               
reconciliation:    determining  if  someone  has  more  than  one                                                               
record.   He relayed that these  photos are also used  to prevent                                                               
identity theft:  if an ID  is lost or stolen, someone could alter                                                               
the  ID by  putting  his/her  own photograph  on  it  and not  be                                                               
apprehended, if there is no record  left of that ID.  He asserted                                                               
that identity theft is growing  at an alarming rate, and recovery                                                               
from  identity theft  is  extremely difficult.    If someone  has                                                               
his/her  identity  stolen  and  [historical]  documents  are  not                                                               
maintained, it would be very hard  for the person with the stolen                                                               
identity to  establish that his/her  identity was stolen  and the                                                               
picture falsified.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
9:10:50 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MARLA  THOMPSON,  Director,  Division of  Motor  Vehicles  (DMV),                                                               
Department  of Administration  (DOA),  stated that  DMV has  been                                                               
retaining photos  in its current  system since about  2005, which                                                               
is  when  the improvements  in  cameras  and technology  made  it                                                               
possible.   She said the  photos must  be retained for  15 years.                                                               
She asserted  that record  security is of  great concern  to DMV;                                                               
there  are policies  and procedures  about  shredding records  on                                                               
site; and nothing is out of DMV's "eyesight."                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  KREISS-TOMKINS  asked,  "What  is  practice  and  what  is                                                               
current law in terms of how long those images are retained?"                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. THOMPSON  replied that  photos are  retained with  the actual                                                               
record,  and  the supporting  documents  for  an application  are                                                               
retained.    Retention   has  been  executed  with   the  use  of                                                               
microfiche and  microfilm in  the past but  now is  achieved with                                                               
electronic  scans.   She said  that the  retention of  the actual                                                               
photo with the actual record is currently set at 15 years.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
9:13:07 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE BIRCH  asked what the requirements  are for taking                                                               
photos at  DMV:  the  capability of the  camera; the size  of the                                                               
image;  if  glasses are  worn  by  the  applicant; or  any  other                                                               
special requirements of image capture.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MS. THOMPSON said that the camera  is nothing special; it is very                                                               
big; it operates with a flash;  and the picture of the individual                                                               
is taken against a blue screen.   One may wear glasses if that is                                                               
his/her  restriction.   She relayed  that she  does not  know the                                                               
photo  size  but  could  find  out;  photo  size  may  change  as                                                               
technology improves.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
9:14:59 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX asked if under HB  74, the photo for a REAL                                                               
ID would  be like  photos used  at major  international airports,                                                               
such  as  Heathrow  International  Airport.   She  expressed  her                                                               
understanding that a  scan is taken of travelers  moving from one                                                               
section of the airport to another.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MS. THOMPSON stated that she cannot  speak to that scenario.  She                                                               
said there would be two types  of photos required [with REAL ID]:                                                               
one  is a  low technology  (tech)  webcam photo  to accompany  an                                                               
application; the second photo is taken  at the end of the process                                                               
after the information is verified.   The webcam photo may be used                                                               
for the ID, instead of the second photo taken.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
9:16:33 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR KREISS-TOMKINS posed the question  [asked during the 4/6/17                                                               
committee meeting] of whether a temporary  ID card can be used to                                                               
access a [military]  base, if a person has applied  for a REAL ID                                                               
and is waiting to receive it in the mail.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
9:17: AM                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
BRIAN   DUFFY,   Director,  Administrative   Services   Division,                                                               
Department of  Military & Veterans'  Affairs (DMVA),  offered his                                                               
understanding   that   for    one-time   access,   the   military                                                               
installation  would   accept  a  temporary  card;   however,  for                                                               
recurring  access and  to  be  able to  get  a Defense  Biometric                                                               
Identification  System  (DBIDS) card  for  a  one-year term,  the                                                               
temporary ID card would be insufficient.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX  asked if  a person  with a  temporary card                                                               
would be  able to access  the military base  for the week  to ten                                                               
days he/she were waiting to receive the REAL ID in the mail.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  DUFFY reiterated  that for  one-time access  - that  is, one                                                               
entry,  one  exit  -  the temporary  card  would  be  sufficient.                                                               
Beyond that,  the individual would  need to obtain a  DBIDS card,                                                               
and to obtain that card, one  would need a REAL ID compliant form                                                               
of ID.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX asked  if someone with a job  on base, such                                                               
as with  the school district or  a construction firm, who  was in                                                               
the process  of obtaining a  REAL ID card  but needed to  work on                                                               
base during  the ten days  while waiting  for the card,  would be                                                               
allowed only one time on base with a temporary card.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR. DUFFY stated  that after June 6, a REAL  ID compliant form of                                                               
ID will be  required to obtain the longer-term access  card - the                                                               
DBIDS card;  the DBIDS card would  allow someone on base  with no                                                               
other ID.   He  said that  he would  consult with  the [military]                                                               
installation leaders once more on that question.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
9:20:00 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. RIDLE  offered that a person  who works on base  all the time                                                               
can get a  card that lasts for a year;  therefore, he/she can get                                                               
that card with his/her REAL ID.   She said that if someone's REAL                                                               
ID is  to expire, he/she can  renew the ID and  keep the expiring                                                               
one while  waiting for the new  one.  She maintained  that with a                                                               
passport,  one  needs  to  mail  in the  passport  to  renew  it;                                                               
therefore, he/she is without one for six to eight weeks.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX  stated that  she was under  the impression                                                               
that a new  worker, needing to access base but  lacking a REAL ID                                                               
card, could  apply that  day at  DMV and obtain  a REAL  ID card.                                                               
She offered that  testimony indicates that if a person  has a job                                                               
lasting more than  one day, he/she would not be  able to continue                                                               
work until the REAL ID card arrived in the mail.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MS. RIDLE clarified that if HB  74 passes, Alaska will be granted                                                               
a waiver  for at least two  years to allow people  time to obtain                                                               
REAL IDs or passports.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  LEDOUX countered  that  people have  known for  a                                                               
while that  REAL ID  "is coming"  and her  belief is  that people                                                               
will still procrastinate  given a later deadline.   She mentioned                                                               
that she  thought one of  the benefits of  REAL ID would  be that                                                               
someone could apply for REAL ID and get on base the same day.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MS.  RIDLE relayed  that it  will  take DOA  at least  a year  to                                                               
implement REAL ID, and that is the purpose of the waiver.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
9:23:24 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE WOOL  acknowledged that  under an  extension, 2020                                                               
would  be  the  deadline  requiring  REAL IDs  for  access  to  a                                                               
military facility or for airplane  travel.  He mentioned that Mr.                                                               
Duffy  said that  one  would need  a REAL  ID  compliant card  to                                                               
access base, and  one could get a DBIDS card.   He clarified that                                                               
Representative LeDoux is  asking if a temporary card  would be as                                                               
compliant as  a permanent REAL ID  card to access base  or get on                                                               
an  airplane during  the ten-day  to two-week  interim he/she  is                                                               
waiting for  a REAL ID  card to  come in the  mail.  He  asked if                                                               
someone, who  has been in  the Bush  for several years,  comes to                                                               
town and has  a flight out the  next morning will be  able to get                                                               
on the airplane with the temporary ID card from DMV.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MS. RIDLE  responded that Mr.  Duffy was referring to  a one-time                                                               
access to  base for work.   A person who  is working on  base and                                                               
who comes  and goes  continuously, can  get a  card that  lasts a                                                               
year.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE WOOL  responded that he understands  that a person                                                               
who works on base all the time can  get a DBIDS card.  He offered                                                               
that a  person with a REAL  ID card would  be able to do  that as                                                               
well.   He  asked if  base commanders  will accept  the temporary                                                               
REAL ID while the person is waiting for the permanent REAL ID.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR.  DUFFY  stated that  he  would  check with  the  installation                                                               
leaders to  find out if a  temporary ID card would  be sufficient                                                               
during  the  interim [waiting]  period  and  report back  to  the                                                               
committee.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
9:27:11 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX  stated that by  a certain date, a  REAL ID                                                               
would be required to travel by  airplane; Alaska can get a waiver                                                               
if HB  74 passes.   She  asked what  happens at  an airport  in a                                                               
state without a waiver, if someone needs to fly back to Alaska.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR KREISS-TOMKINS  offered that at any  airport, including the                                                               
one in  Juneau, there  is a  sign outside  TSA declaring  that if                                                               
someone has a driver's license  from any of the following [named]                                                               
states at a certain [named] date,  he/she will not be able to use                                                               
that  state's  driver's  license  at  the  TSA  checkpoint.    He                                                               
maintained that  since federal standards apply  across states, if                                                               
Alaska gets  a waiver, Alaska  driver's licenses will  not appear                                                               
on that  list of  unacceptable IDs regardless  of the  state from                                                               
which the person is traveling.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MS. RIDLE answered that is correct.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
9:30:07 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  JOHNSON referred  to  "grants to  states" in  the                                                               
REAL ID  Act of 2005 and  asked if Alaska has  received any funds                                                               
from the federal  government to implement REAL ID  or upgrade its                                                               
equipment.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MS. THOMPSON replied  that there were grants for  the printers to                                                               
print the  driver's licenses  and the  REAL IDs,  but no  REAL ID                                                               
grants for  DMV.  She mentioned  that DMV received two  grants to                                                               
pay for  the work  - one  from the  Federal Motor  Carrier Safety                                                               
Administration  (FMCSA)  and  one   from  the  Federal  Emergency                                                               
Management Agency (FEMA).  She stated  that she would find out if                                                               
there were any other grants.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  JOHNSON  referred  to  the  REAL  ID  Act,  which                                                               
mentions  grants from  the federal  government to  implement REAL                                                               
ID.   She asked to receive  a written list of  the funds received                                                               
for implementation.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MS. THOMPSON agreed to provide that information in writing.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
9:34:59 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  TUCK asserted  that all  airlines are  considered                                                               
"common  carriers," and  a common  carrier  has a  legal duty  to                                                               
transport anyone  who is willing  to pay  the airplane fare.   He                                                               
maintained that there are no  requirements for an ID for airplane                                                               
travel.    He  asked that  Representative  Kreiss-Tomkins,  while                                                               
contacting  the  U.S.  Department  of  Homeland  Security  (DHS),                                                               
request  clarification on  how that  policy will  be changed  for                                                               
future travel.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR KREISS-TOMKINS  offered to confer with  Representative Tuck                                                               
to ensure  the correct question  is asked  of DHS and  the needed                                                               
information is obtained.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
9:35:53 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  KNOPP  asked Ms.  Thompson  to  include with  the                                                               
grant  information any  binding  language  and state  obligations                                                               
under  the grants.    He  asked Ms.  Ridle  to  provide him  with                                                               
information regarding the length of  time it would take to verify                                                               
documents submitted  with the application  for REAL ID.   He also                                                               
mentioned that  he was not aware  of the two-year waiver  and the                                                               
[deadline] date  associated with  it; he  said he  thought Alaska                                                               
had an [earlier] "drop dead" date.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MS. RIDLE replied  that Alaska would only receive a  waiver if HB
74 passes; if  the proposed legislation does not  pass during the                                                               
current legislative session, Alaska will  lose its waiver on June                                                               
6.                                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
9:37:39 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE TUCK  asked, "What needs to  be in the bill  to be                                                               
compliant for  the waiver?"  He  maintained that there must  be a                                                               
list of requirements.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR KREISS-TOMKINS  stated that through conversations  with all                                                               
the  agencies  involved,  he has  learned  that  "compliance"  is                                                               
determined by whether  the state conforms to  DHS regulations and                                                               
the  authorizing  REAL  ID  Act;  and  a  state's  compliance  is                                                               
required for a waiver.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MS. RIDLE concurred.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE TUCK  asked that  the committee receive  that list                                                               
of  requirements  so that  Alaska  can  do  the bare  minimum  to                                                               
comply.   He maintained that  he does not support  submitting the                                                               
last five  digits of SSNs,  and that requirement is  not included                                                               
in  the REAL  ID  Act.   He  suggested that  Alaska  do the  bare                                                               
minimum to  get the  waiver, then make  changes through  AAMVA so                                                               
that it does not have to submit  data that is not required by the                                                               
Act.                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  KREISS-TOMKINS stated  that his  office has  consulted the                                                               
body  of  regulations under  the  REAL  ID  Act  as well  as  the                                                               
authorizing law itself and will share  it with the committee.  In                                                               
response to Representative  Tuck, he stated that he  did not know                                                               
if DHS staff  would make themselves available to  testify, but he                                                               
would ask.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
9:41:01 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX  commented that  she would be  surprised if                                                               
there wasn't at least a memo  from the U.S. Department of Justice                                                               
(DOJ)  outlining exactly  what is  necessary to  comply with  the                                                               
REAL ID  Act.   She referred to  state legalization  of marijuana                                                               
and the Cole memorandum [drafted  by former U.S. Attorney General                                                               
James  M. Cole  in 2013  giving prosecutors  and law  enforcement                                                               
guidelines on marijuana law enforcement].   She said that in this                                                               
memo, the  Attorney General specified DOJ's  focus in determining                                                               
enforcement  priorities with  respect to  marijuana.   She asked,                                                               
"Isn't there something like that with respect to the REAL ID?"                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR   KREISS-TOMKINS  expressed   his  belief   that  REAL   ID                                                               
compliance is adjudicated  on case-by-case, state-by-state basis.                                                               
A  state's  authorizing  legislation is  adjudicated  by  whether                                                               
through that legislation, the state is or is not compliant.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  LEDOUX added  that  "adjudication" suggests  that                                                               
there is a legal case regarding a state's compliance.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR.  STANKER  responded  that  he   is  not  aware  of  any  such                                                               
adjudicatory   documents  regarding   minimum  compliance.     He                                                               
asserted  that  minimum  compliance  with  the  REAL  ID  Act  is                                                               
explained in  the 6 Code of  Federal Regulations (CFR) Part  37 -                                                               
the  body of  regulations implementing  the  Act.   He said  that                                                               
having read  them many times, it  is his opinion that  they don't                                                               
create  a  "floor" or  a  "ceiling,"  but  a standard;  to  issue                                                               
compliant driver's  licenses and  IDs, a  state must  comply with                                                               
that standard.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
9:44:28 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE BIRCH suggested consulting the U.S. Army and the                                                                 
U.S. Airforce, because their [ID] document requirements may                                                                     
differ from those of the [military] bases.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
[HB 74 was held over.]                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                

Document Name Date/Time Subjects
HB074 Draft Proposed CS ver U 4.10.17.pdf HSTA 4/8/2017 8:30:00 AM
HB 74
HB074 Summary of Changes ver J - ver U 4.10.17.pdf HSTA 4/8/2017 8:30:00 AM
HB 74
HB074 Draft Proposed Amendments to CS ver U 4.10.17.pdf HSTA 4/8/2017 8:30:00 AM
HB 74
HB074 Sectional Analysis ver U 4.10.17.pdf HSTA 4/8/2017 8:30:00 AM
HB 74
HB074 Letter of Support AKAFLCIO 4.9.17.pdf HSTA 4/8/2017 8:30:00 AM
HB 74
HB074 Letter of Support AKAFLCIO nr 2 4.9 (1).pdf HSTA 4/8/2017 8:30:00 AM
HB 74
HB074 Letter of Support Rim Architects 4.9.17.pdf HSTA 4/8/2017 8:30:00 AM
HB 74
HB074 Letter of Support Sourdough Transfers 4.9.17.pdf HSTA 4/8/2017 8:30:00 AM
HB 74
HB074 Letter of Support ABC 4.9.2017.pdf HSTA 4/8/2017 8:30:00 AM
HB 74
HB074 Letter of Support Greater Fairbanks Chamber of Commerce 4.9.17.pdf HSTA 4/8/2017 8:30:00 AM
HB 74
HB074 Letter of Support Alaska District Council of Laborers 4.9.17.pdf HSTA 4/8/2017 8:30:00 AM
HB 74
HB074 Letter of Support AGC of Alaska 4.9.17.pdf HSTA 4/8/2017 8:30:00 AM
HB 74