Legislature(2017 - 2018)GRUENBERG 120

04/06/2017 03:00 PM STATE AFFAIRS

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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
-- Recessed to approx. 4/8/17 at 8:30 AM --
+= HB 190 REGULATION ADOPTION/ORAL COMMENT TELECONFERENCED
Scheduled but Not Heard
<Bill Hearing Canceled>
+= HB 158 APOC OFFICE LOCATIONS TELECONFERENCED
Moved HB 158 Out of Committee
-- Public Testimony --
+= HB 163 DPS LAW ENFORCE. SVCS: AGREEMENTS/FEES TELECONFERENCED
Scheduled but Not Heard
<Bill Hearing Canceled>
+= HB 74 DRIVER'S LICENSE & ID CARDS & REAL ID ACT TELECONFERENCED
Heard & Held
+ Bills Previously Heard/Scheduled TELECONFERENCED
+= HB 165 STATE PERSONNEL ACT: VETERANS TELECONFERENCED
Moved HB 165 Out of Committee
-- Public Testimony --
        HB  74-DRIVER'S LICENSE & ID CARDS & REAL ID ACT                                                                    
3:33:25 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR KREISS-TOMKINS  announced that the final  order of business                                                               
would  be   HOUSE  BILL   NO.  74,  "An   Act  relating   to  the                                                               
implementation of the  federal REAL ID Act of  2005; and relating                                                               
to issuance  of identification cards  and driver's  licenses; and                                                               
providing  for  an  effective  date."    [Before  the  committee,                                                               
adopted as  a work draft  during the 4/4/17, 5:40  p.m., meeting,                                                               
was the  proposed committee  substitute (CS)  for HB  74, Version                                                               
30-GH1781\J, Martin,  4/4/17, hereafter  referred to  as "Version                                                               
J".]                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
3:37:02 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
LESLIE RIDLE,  Deputy Commissioner, Department  of Administration                                                               
(DOA),  referred  to  the 4/5/17  letter  [from  Sheldon  Fisher,                                                               
Commissioner, DOA,  and included in the  committee packet], which                                                               
clarifies  and revises  Ms. Ridle's  testimony during  the 4/4/17                                                               
meeting.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MS. RIDLE  referred to issue  Number 1  in the DOA  letter, which                                                               
addresses page 1,  line 10, of Version J to  point out that under                                                               
Version J,  the total cost  of an identification (ID)  card would                                                               
be $25 and the total cost for a license would be $30.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
3:39:27 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  TUCK added  that  the additional  fee would  "pay                                                               
down" the  cost of [Alaska  becoming REAL ID compliant]  in about                                                               
five years.   He pointed  out that  the current fiscal  note does                                                               
not  reflect  any  dues or  fees.    He  asked  for the  cost  of                                                               
membership  in   the  American   Association  of   Motor  Vehicle                                                               
Administrators (AAMVA).                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MS.  RIDLE replied  that the  Alaska Division  of Motor  Vehicles                                                               
(DMV) is  already a member  of AAMVA; therefore, that  cost would                                                               
not be reflected in the proposed legislation.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  TUCK asked  what  the cost  would  be for  future                                                               
services from AAMVA.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR KREISS-TOMKINS  clarified the  question by asking  if there                                                               
are any specific  AAMVA related fees associated  with the passage                                                               
of Version J.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
3:41:13 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MARLA  THOMPSON,  Director,  Division of  Motor  Vehicles  (DMV),                                                               
Department  of Administration  (DOA), responded  that the  amount                                                               
needed to  implement the proposed  legislation is in  the current                                                               
budget;  it is  based  on an  estimate of  the  IDs and  driver's                                                               
licenses that DMV  anticipates issuing.  She added  that DMV pays                                                               
a  "per  use  fee,"  and  she  can  provide  information  to  the                                                               
committee on  all the different  fees.  She stated  that included                                                               
in the fiscal  note are the fees for  checking birth certificates                                                               
and passports, which  would be new for DMV under  Version J.  She                                                               
relayed  that these  checks require  per  use fees;  the cost  is                                                               
based on the  number of people requiring these checks;  and it is                                                               
a "shared" cost.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX  asked why a  person with a  passport would                                                               
come into DMV to obtain a REAL ID card.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MS. THOMPSON answered that one of  the requirements of REAL ID is                                                               
the  verification of  the validity  of passports,  and there  are                                                               
fees for that verification.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS.  RIDLE clarified  that Representative  LeDoux's question  is,                                                               
Why would someone  get a REAL ID  if he/she has a  passport?  She                                                               
explained that sometimes  people bring in passports as  a form of                                                               
ID; they  might still want to  get a REAL ID,  because they don't                                                               
want to carry their passports.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
3:44:07 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE WOOL  offered that  after REAL ID  is implemented,                                                               
to obtain a driver's license for  the first time he would need to                                                               
go to  DMV with  an ID  besides just  his driver's  license; that                                                               
would be  his birth certificate  or his  passport.  He  asked for                                                               
confirmation  that  the  procedures  at  DMV  would  involve  the                                                               
following:   scanning his documents;  sending the  scan somewhere                                                               
to be verified for identity,  duplicate IDs, or "identity markers                                                               
or pointers"; and handing the documents back.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MS.  RIDLE  responded  that  DMV does  not  send  an  applicant's                                                               
documents  out; the  DMV would  do a  check through  the passport                                                               
database to verify identity of  the applicant while the applicant                                                               
is  present at  DMV; and  REAL ID  requires that  DMV retain  the                                                               
documents.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MS. THOMPSON concurred.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
3:46:13 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  LEDOUX asked  if an  applicant would  be able  to                                                               
obtain a  REAL ID the same  day [as application], just  as he/she                                                               
would a driver's license.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MS. RIDLE answered  that currently an applicant  does not receive                                                               
a  driver's  license  the  same   day.    Driver's  licenses  are                                                               
processed and  produced in  Indiana, and that  would be  the same                                                               
for REAL IDs.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  LEDOUX  suggested  that the  primary  reason  for                                                               
passing HB 74 was that under HB  74, obtaining a REAL ID would be                                                               
much easier and quicker than getting  a passport card.  She asked                                                               
how long it would  take her to obtain a REAL  ID, if she realized                                                               
[last  minute] that  she needed  one to  access a  military base.                                                               
She asked,  "Am I  going to  get something  that same  day that's                                                               
going to let me on the base?"                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MS. RIDLE replied that just as  is currently done, DMV would give                                                               
her a paper copy,  and the actual card would be  mailed to her in                                                               
about ten  days to  two weeks,  which is the  average time.   She                                                               
responded to  Representative LeDoux's  second question  by saying                                                               
that she  was unfamiliar with  [military] base rules and  did not                                                               
know if a paper copy was sufficient for access.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  LEDOUX emphasized  the importance  of the  public                                                               
knowing how quickly  a REAL ID could be obtained.   She said that                                                               
her  concern  has  been  the   necessity  to  pass  the  proposed                                                               
legislation so  that people can  obtain access to bases  for work                                                               
in  a timely  manner.   She  offered that  if the  paper copy  is                                                               
insufficient, that would present a significant problem.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MS.  RIDLE responded  that if  HB  74 passes  during the  current                                                               
legislative  session,  Alaska  would be  granted  another  waiver                                                               
while it  implements the law.   She asserted that it  is the hope                                                               
of DOA personnel that with more  time and a public relations (PR)                                                               
campaign, most people needing REAL IDs will obtain them timely.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
3:49:13 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE TUCK  expressed a need  for more details  on DOA's                                                               
response to the committee's concerns.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
3:50:06 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. RIDLE  referred to issue  Number 2  in the DOA  letter, which                                                               
addresses  page 2,  lines 5-7,  of Version  J.   She stated  that                                                               
there  are other  laws that  apply to  record retention  [besides                                                               
those  mentioned in  Version  J] and  suggested  that adding  the                                                               
phrase,  "or other  federal and  state law",  to the  end of  the                                                               
sentence in  line 6 would ensure  Alaska is not in  conflict with                                                               
the other record retention laws.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MS. RIDLE  referred to issue  Number 3  in the DOA  letter, which                                                               
addresses page 2, lines 11-12, of  Version J.  She contended that                                                               
the requirement  [not to retain  images of the  applicant's face]                                                               
would  make Alaska  noncompliant with  the REAL  ID Act;  REAL ID                                                               
requires  the retention  of  the images;  and  the Department  of                                                               
Public  Safety   (DPS)  could  testify  regarding   its  concerns                                                               
regarding retention of photographs ("photos").                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
3:51:41 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   TUCK   mentioned   that  AAMVA   requires   some                                                               
provisions that  are not required by  the REAL ID Act.   He asked                                                               
if the  retention of photos is  a requirement of the  REAL ID Act                                                               
or a requirement of AAMVA.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MS. RIDLE  expressed her understanding  that it is  a requirement                                                               
of the REAL  ID Act, since AAMVA's requirements  are only related                                                               
to the  State to State (S2S)  system, and there are  no photos in                                                               
the S2S system.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
3:52:49 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. RIDLE  referred to issue  Number 4  in the DOA  letter, which                                                               
addresses page  2, lines 13-20,  of Version  J.  She  stated that                                                               
the  prohibition of  records retention  reflected in  these lines                                                               
would make Alaska noncompliant with REAL ID.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. RIDLE  referred to issue  Number 5  in the DOA  letter, which                                                               
addresses page  2, lines 26-27, of  Version J.  She  relayed that                                                               
DOA does require some of its  employees to access a military base                                                               
or to  travel by plane.   She suggested that the  phrase, "unless                                                               
federally compliant  identification is required  for employment",                                                               
be added in line 27.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MS. RIDLE  referred to issue  Number 6  in the DOA  letter, which                                                               
addresses page  2, lines 29-31, of  Version J.  She  related that                                                               
DPS  has  concerns regarding  non-retention  of  photos, and  she                                                               
suggested deletion of that paragraph.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MS. RIDLE  referred to issue  Number 7  in the DOA  letter, which                                                               
addresses page 3,  lines 2-7, of Version J.   She stated that the                                                               
provision in  that paragraph would  require that DMV  store paper                                                               
documents  for  noncompliant  driver's  licenses and  IDs.    She                                                               
relayed  that  there  are  several   related  issues:    customer                                                               
service, cost, security, and fraud  prevention.  She offered that                                                               
DMV strives for  efficiency and good customer service  as well as                                                               
privacy.   She maintained that fulfilling  this requirement would                                                               
preclude  the public  applying for  licenses online  and diminish                                                               
the timeliness of service.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
3:55:03 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  LEDOUX  asked  if  renewing  a  driver's  license                                                               
online would be impossible under Version J.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS.  RIDLE said,  "No, this  is  the noncompliant  cards in  this                                                               
Version."  She explained that  for compliant cards, DMV would not                                                               
be required  to store paper documents;  therefore, online renewal                                                               
would  be possible.   She  maintained that  under Version  J, DMV                                                               
would  be required  to store  [paper] documents  for noncompliant                                                               
licenses and  cards; therefore, holders of  noncompliant licenses                                                               
and cards  would be required  to renew  them at DMV,  because DMV                                                               
would not be able to access the documents electronically.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  LEDOUX  asked  for   an  explanation  as  to  why                                                               
currently someone  can renew  online, but  under Version  J would                                                               
not be able to renew a noncompliant license or card online.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS.  RIDLE  explained  that currently  all  Alaska  licenses  are                                                               
noncompliant;  DMV has  been storing  documents online;  and when                                                               
someone  renews his/her  license,  DMV personnel  can review  the                                                               
documents online  to process an  application.  She  asserted that                                                               
even if a  person applies for renewal online, "a  real person" at                                                               
DMV still  reviews the application.   She maintained that  if DMV                                                               
is prohibited from retaining documents  online, then an applicant                                                               
would need to physically come into DMV to renew.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
3:56:53 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  KNOPP   restated  that   under  Version   J,  the                                                               
paperwork for  REAL ID compliant  licenses and ID cards  would be                                                               
retained [electronically]  allowing online renewal;  however, the                                                               
[electronic]  storage of  information  for noncompliant  licenses                                                               
and ID cards  would be prohibited; therefore, they  would need to                                                               
be renewed in person.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MS. RIDLE  confirmed that under  Version J, that is  correct; the                                                               
DMV  would  be asked  to  store  paper  copies of  documents  for                                                               
noncompliant licenses and ID cards.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KNOPP  mentioned that he first  obtained an Alaska                                                               
driver's  license  in  1979; he  continually  renews  it  without                                                               
additional  paperwork;  and  the  paperwork from  1979  is  still                                                               
adequate today.  He said, "That makes no sense to me."                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MS.  RIDLE suggested  that Representative  Knopp  must have  been                                                               
required to  go to a DMV  once or twice  in the 40 years  that he                                                               
held the driver's license.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KNOPP  offered that  paperwork "gets old"  after a                                                               
period, and no one looks the same after nine years.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
3:58:40 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX asked why  the process for noncompliant IDs                                                               
would change.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
3:59:16 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
ERIC  GLATT,  Staff  Attorney,  American  Civil  Liberties  Union                                                               
(ACLU) of Alaska,  referred to the requirement in  Version J that                                                               
applications  be kept  only in  paper  form and  offered that  an                                                               
amendment is to be introduced in  which DMV would not be required                                                               
to keep  applications only in  paper form, which would  allow DMV                                                               
to process  applications as it  is currently doing and  allow for                                                               
online renewals.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
4:00:22 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE WOOL  asked at what  frequency a  driver's license                                                               
must be renewed and a new photo taken.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MS.  RIDLE stated  that currently  a driver's  license is  up for                                                               
renewal every  five years; Version  J would change that  to every                                                               
eight years  and allow  for one  online renewal.   She  said that                                                               
under Version  J, someone could  wait 16 years  before physically                                                               
visiting DMV  again, at which  time there  would be a  new photo,                                                               
vision check, and eligibility check.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MS. RIDLE  referred to issue  Number 8  in the DOA  letter, which                                                               
addresses page  3, lines 16-19,  of Version  J.  She  stated that                                                               
paragraph 3  asks DOA  to tell  people that they  can use  a non-                                                               
federally  compliant form  of  ID  to travel  by  airplane.   She                                                               
asserted  that   DOA  disagrees  with  this   request;  the  U.S.                                                               
Department of  Homeland Security  (DHS) has indicated  that would                                                               
not  be an  option [for  airplane  travel); and  abiding by  this                                                               
request  would  constitute passing  on  false  information.   She                                                               
concluded  that   DOA  personnel  recommend  this   paragraph  be                                                               
deleted.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
4:02:49 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  LEDOUX asked  about  the  possibility of  someone                                                               
from DHS  testifying on  what will  or will  not be  accepted [as                                                               
ID].   She lamented that  the committee has  received information                                                               
regarding DHS's plans second hand, but not directly.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  KREISS-TOMKINS  reiterated  that DOA  facilitated  a  call                                                               
between his  staff and  DHS, which  helped answer  questions that                                                               
his  office had  about the  proposed legislation.   He  asked Ms.                                                               
Ridle  if  it would  be  possible  for  a DHS  representative  to                                                               
testify to the committee.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MS.  RIDLE responded  that DOA  personnel have  had conversations                                                               
with  DHS personnel  to get  answers to  questions; however,  she                                                               
conjectured  that DHS  personnel would  not be  inclined to  give                                                               
testimony  [during a  hearing on  HB 74],  and DHS  does have  an                                                               
extensive website that specifies an acceptable form of ID.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
4:04:16 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  TUCK   stated  that   there  is   no  requirement                                                               
currently  [for a  federally compliant  ID] for  airplane travel.                                                               
He added  that the only  requirement is additional  screening [if                                                               
flying without an  ID].  He referred to his  experience of flying                                                               
without an ID, which he described  during the 4/4/17 meeting:  he                                                               
was  given a  red bin  instead  of a  gray bin;  he submitted  to                                                               
scanning  and  a  "pat down";  and  the  Transportation  Security                                                               
Administration (TSA)  personnel checked his carry-on  items.  For                                                               
the return flight, he was allowed  on the plane using his expired                                                               
Costco card  as ID.  He  asserted that the ACLU  confirmed during                                                               
the  4/4/17 meeting  that  an ID  is not  required  to travel  by                                                               
plane, but without  an ID one would have to  submit to additional                                                               
screening.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MS. RIDLE  responded that the  key word in  Representative Tuck's                                                               
comments  is  "currently."   She  relayed  that the  TSA  website                                                               
clearly states that  by October 2020, no one will  be able to fly                                                               
without a  federally compliant ID  out of  an airport with  a TSA                                                               
checkpoint.  She stated that  deleting this paragraph would avoid                                                               
putting Alaska in a difficult situation.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MS. RIDLE  referred to issue  Number 9  in the DOA  letter, which                                                               
addresses page  4, lines 11-15,  of Version  J.  She  stated that                                                               
DOA  shares data  with  other  state agencies  such  as DPS,  the                                                               
Permanent  Fund  Dividend (PFD)  Division  to  detect fraud,  the                                                               
Department of Labor & Workforce  Development (DLWD), the Division                                                               
of Public  Assistance (DPA)  to detect  fraud, and  Child Support                                                               
Services Division  (CSSD) for the  enforcement of  child support.                                                               
She asserted that the language  in this section would prevent DOA                                                               
from   discussing   driver   safety,  recalls,   or   any   other                                                               
interactions with  other agencies;  therefore, DOA's  position is                                                               
that it should be deleted.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE TUCK  contended that  since Version J  specifies a                                                               
prohibition  against  sharing data  outside  a  state agency,  it                                                               
would not limit DOA from sharing  data with the agencies that Ms.                                                               
Ridle mentioned, because they are all state agencies.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MS.  RIDLE   replied  correct  but   clarified  that   DOA  staff                                                               
interprets  the language  to say  that DOA  could not  share data                                                               
with  the Anchorage  Police  Department  (APD) or  municipalities                                                               
that currently interface with the DPS database.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
4:08:04 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MICHAEL  STANKER, Assistant  Attorney  General,  Labor and  State                                                               
Affairs Section,  Civil Division  (Anchorage), Department  of Law                                                               
(DOL),  responded that  as Section  4  of Version  J is  written,                                                               
there  would  be a  blanket  prohibition  on  data sharing.    He                                                               
offered that  although it does  provide some exceptions,  such as                                                               
data  sharing  with state  agencies  and  to administer  driver's                                                               
licenses,  all other  current data  sharing would  be prohibited.                                                               
He   said  that   under   AS   28.10.505,  personal   identifying                                                               
information  is confidential,  but the  statute gives  exceptions                                                               
and the  DOA letter outlines some  of those exceptions.   He gave                                                               
as examples:  information may  be shared regarding vehicle safety                                                               
and recall;  information may be  shared for  litigation purposes;                                                               
and   information  may   be  shared   with  government   and  law                                                               
enforcement agencies.   He said that  the concern of DOA  is that                                                               
under Version J, these types of data sharing may be prohibited.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
4:09:35 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. RIDLE  referred to issue Number  10 in the DOA  letter, which                                                               
addresses page 5,  lines 9-10, of Version J and  stated that this                                                               
issue  [regarding the  retention of  historical photos  for DPS's                                                               
use] was previously addressed.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MS. RIDLE  referred to issue Number  11 in the DOA  letter, which                                                               
addresses page 5, lines 11-18, of  Version J and stated that this                                                               
issue [regarding  the prohibition of the  retention of documents,                                                               
which would make Alaska noncompliant] was previously addressed.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MS. RIDLE  referred to issue Number  12 in the DOA  letter, which                                                               
addresses page  5, lines 24-25,  of Version  J.  She  stated that                                                               
this issue regarding the ability of  the state to require that an                                                               
employee have a federally compliant ID was previously addressed.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MS. RIDLE  referred to issue Number  13 in the DOA  letter, which                                                               
addresses page 5, lines 27-28, of  Version J and stated that this                                                               
issue  [regarding the  retention of  historical photos  for DPS's                                                               
use] was previously addressed.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MS. RIDLE  referred to issue Number  14 in the DOA  letter, which                                                               
addresses page  6, lines 13-16,  of Version  J.  She  stated that                                                               
this issue regarding the ability of  the state to require that an                                                               
employee have a federally compliant ID was previously addressed.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MS. RIDLE  referred to issue Number  15 in the DOA  letter, which                                                               
addresses page  6, lines 24-31,  of Version  J.  She  stated that                                                               
this subsection would require that  DOA give only compliant cards                                                               
to  legal aliens  in  Alaska, and  she asserted  that  this is  a                                                               
violation of "equal protection."   She recommended that, to avoid                                                               
the  violation,   "federally  compliant"  be  removed   from  the                                                               
sentence beginning  on line  28 and "shall"  in that  sentence be                                                               
replaced with "may".                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
4:11:20 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. RIDLE clarified that the  subsection states that DMV may only                                                               
issue a compliant card to a  legal alien.  She maintained that it                                                               
is  DOA's  position that  legal  aliens  should have  the  choice                                                               
between compliant  and noncompliant  ID cards just  like everyone                                                               
else.   She added  that changing "shall"  to "may"  addresses the                                                               
issue brought to the committee  by Representative Birch [3/28/17,                                                               
3:08  p.m. meeting]  regarding  a constituent's  wife,  who as  a                                                               
Japanese national  with a green  card without an  expiration date                                                               
is required to renew her driver's license annually.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   TUCK   offered   as   background   that   former                                                               
Representative Bob  Lynn offered  an amendment in  2014 requiring                                                               
immigrants with  longer stays in  Alaska to renew  their driver's                                                               
licenses annually.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MS.  RIDLE stated  that  Mr.  Stanker relayed  to  her after  her                                                               
testimony at  the [04/04/17] committee  meeting that there  is an                                                               
ambiguity  in statute,  and  DOA has  been  applying the  statute                                                               
fairly.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
4:13:40 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX  suggested that  the issue  brought forward                                                               
by Representative  Birch - concerning  the wife of  a constituent                                                               
with  an  indefinite  immigration   status  who  must  renew  her                                                               
driver's license annually - still exists.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  KREISS-TOMKINS commented  that as  Version J  currently is                                                               
written, that is  the case; however, he  anticipates an amendment                                                               
to  change it  as  DOA  has recommended.    He  asked if  "shall"                                                               
existed in the language of the original version of HB 74.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MS. RIDLE  replied, yes.  She  opined that it is  in the statute,                                                               
not just the proposed legislation.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
4:14:48 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. RIDLE  referred to issue Number  16 in the DOA  letter, which                                                               
addresses page  7, lines 26-30,  of Version  J and said  that DOA                                                               
supports codifying in statute the  prohibition of bulk sharing of                                                               
photos outside the state.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
4:15:50 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  KNOPP asked  if  DOA would  support the  proposed                                                               
legislation with the  amendments that have been  prepared for the                                                               
committee.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MS.  RIDLE  answered  that  she  has  not  seen  the  amendments,                                                               
therefore, cannot respond to that  question.  She maintained that                                                               
DOA does not oppose the proposed  legislation, if it is [REAL ID]                                                               
compliant.    She  stated  that  her  testimony  addresses  those                                                               
provisions of  the proposed legislation  with which DOA  does not                                                               
agree.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
4:17:15 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX moved to adopt Amendment 1, [labeled 30-                                                                  
GH1781\J.1, Martin, 4/6/17], which read:                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     Page 1, following line 11:                                                                                                 
     Insert a new bill section to read:                                                                                         
        "* Sec. 2. AS 18.65.310(b) is amended to read:                                                                        
          (b)  A person may obtain an identification card                                                                       
     provided for in (a) of  this section by applying to the                                                                    
     department  on forms  and in  the manner  prescribed by                                                                    
     the  department. The  department shall  include on  the                                                                
     application  for an  identification card  a requirement                                                                
     that the applicant indicate                                                                                            
               (1) that the applicant understands the                                                                       
     options for identification cards  available at the time                                                                
     of issuance; and                                                                                                       
               (2) the type of identification card that the                                                                 
     applicant selects."                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     Renumber the following bill sections accordingly.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     Page 2, lines 22 - 25:                                                                                                     
          Delete "The application must require that an                                                                          
     applicant indicate  that the applicant  understands the                                                                    
     options for identification cards  available at the time                                                                    
     of issuance  and indicate the identification  card that                                                                    
     the applicant selects."                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     Page 5, lines 20 - 23:                                                                                                     
          Delete "The application must require that an                                                                          
     applicant indicate  that the applicant  understands the                                                                    
     options for drivers' licenses available  at the time of                                                                    
     issuance  and indicate  the driver's  license that  the                                                                    
     applicant selects."                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     Page 6, following line 16:                                                                                                 
     Insert a new bill section to read:                                                                                         
        "* Sec. 7. AS 28.15.061(b) is amended to read:                                                                        
          (b)  An application under (a) of this section                                                                         
     must                                                                                                                       
               (1)    contain  the  applicant's  full  legal                                                                    
     name, date  and place  of birth,  sex, and  mailing and                                                                    
     residence addresses;                                                                                                       
               (2)   state  whether the  applicant has  been                                                                    
     previously licensed  in the past  10 years as  a driver                                                                    
     and, if so, when and by what jurisdiction;                                                                                 
               (3)    state  whether any  previous  driver's                                                                    
     license  issued   to  the   applicant  has   ever  been                                                                    
     suspended or  revoked or whether  an application  for a                                                                    
     driver's license has ever been  refused and, if so, the                                                                    
     date of  and reason for the  suspension, revocation, or                                                                    
     refusal;                                                                                                                   
               (4)  contain  the applicant's social security                                                                    
     number; the requirement of  this paragraph only applies                                                                    
     to an applicant  who has been issued  a social security                                                                    
     number; [AND]                                                                                                              
               (5)    contain  other  information  that  the                                                                    
     department  may  reasonably  require to  determine  the                                                                    
     applicant's identity, competency, and eligibility; and                                                                 
               (6)  require that the applicant indicate                                                                     
               (A)    that  the  applicant  understands  the                                                                
     options for drivers' licenses available  at the time of                                                                
     issuance; and                                                                                                          
               (B)   the type of  driver's license  that the                                                                
     applicant selects."                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     Renumber the following bill sections accordingly.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     Page 9, line 11:                                                                                                           
          Delete "Sections 12 and 13"                                                                                           
          Insert "Sections 14 and 15"                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     Page 9, line 12:                                                                                                           
          Delete "sec. 14"                                                                                                      
          Insert "sec. 16"                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR KREISS-TOMKINS objected for the purpose of discussion.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
4:17:49 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
The committee took an at-ease from 4:18 p.m. to 4:23 p.m.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
4:23:00 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
ERIC  GLATT,  Staff  Attorney,  American  Civil  Liberties  Union                                                               
(ACLU) of  Alaska, stated  that Amendment  1 addresses  a concern                                                               
expressed by DOL  that the proposed legislation  does not include                                                               
an  affirmative obligation  for  DOA  to create  a  place on  the                                                               
application  at which  the applicant  must  indicate that  he/she                                                               
understands the options for compliant  and noncompliant cards and                                                               
which one  he/she chooses.   He declared  that Amendment  1 would                                                               
provide that obligation.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MS.  RIDLE asked  if the  intent of  Amendment 1  is to  put this                                                               
obligation into statute instead of regulation.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. GLATT replied that DOL staff  offered that Version J was "too                                                               
passive" in  specifying whose  obligation it  was to  include the                                                               
information on the application.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  KREISS-TOMKINS indicated  that Amendment  1 would  be held                                                               
over for further work.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  LEDOUX asked  if  Amendment 1  would address  the                                                               
issue of informing the public that a  REAL ID is or is not needed                                                               
for plane travel.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MS. RIDLE  opined that  it does  not; it  only requires  that the                                                               
application  reflect  that a  person  understands  the options  -                                                               
compliant or  noncompliant driver's licenses  and ID cards.   She                                                               
expressed her  belief that Amendment  1 would not require  DOA to                                                               
inform an  applicant that  his/her noncompliant  driver's license                                                               
allows him/her to travel by plane.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
4:28:17 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
The committee took an at-ease from 4:28 p.m. to 4:32 p.m.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
4:32:20 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  KREISS-TOMKINS  indicated  that two  amendments  would  be                                                               
considered in the current meeting.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
4:33:04 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTAIVE LEDOUX withdrew Amendment 1.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
4:33:15 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX  moved to  adopt Amendment 2,  [labeled 30-                                                               
GH1781\J.2, Martin, 4/6/17], which read:                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     Page 4, line 21:                                                                                                           
          Delete ", including the American Association of                                                                       
     Motor Vehicle Administrators,"                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR KREISS-TOMKINS objected for the purpose of discussion.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
4:33:39 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. RIDLE explained that Legislative  Legal and Research Services                                                               
indicated that it was unusual  to name a specific organization in                                                               
legislation.  She said DOA supports the amendment.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR KREISS-TOMKINS removed his objection to Amendment 2.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE TUCK objected  for the purpose of  discussion.  He                                                               
asked  why the  mention  of "the  American  Association of  Motor                                                               
Vehicle  Administrators"  should  be deleted  from  the  proposed                                                               
legislation.   He  opined that  the reason  for the  reference is                                                               
because  AAMVA  is  the  only  organization  currently  that  can                                                               
facilitate REAL ID compliance.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR KREISS-TOMKINS asked  Ms. Ridle if the  specific mention of                                                               
AAMVA was in the original version of HB 74.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS. RIDLE  answered no; it was  mentioned first in Version  J and                                                               
was not requested by DOA.   She stated that Section 4, subsection                                                               
(c), on  page 4 refers to  any other system managed  by an entity                                                               
other than DOA;  she offered that Legislative  Legal and Research                                                               
Services  indicated that  the mention  of a  specific agency  was                                                               
"odd."                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR KREISS-TOMKINS agreed that  the reference resulted from the                                                               
drafting of Version J; it  was not intended; therefore, Amendment                                                               
2 would delete it.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
4:35:58 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  KNOPP relayed  that  although  the reference  may                                                               
appear odd, Alaska DMV is a  member of AAMVA, and the language in                                                               
Version J  is clearly  intent language  to place  restrictions on                                                               
any  entity other  than  DOA.   He said  that  his question  was,                                                               
Although we find  it odd, is it really inappropriate?   He asked,                                                               
"Would there be any harm in leaving it?"                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MS. RIDLE responded that DOA's position  is that it would make no                                                               
difference.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
4:37:08 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX withdrew Amendment 2.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
4:37:40 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX  moved to  adopt Amendment 3,  [labeled 30-                                                               
GH1781\J.5, Martin, 4/6/17], which read:                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     Page 1, line 10:                                                                                                           
          Delete "$10"                                                                                                      
          Insert "$20"                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     Page 8, line 25:                                                                                                           
          Delete "$10"                                                                                                      
          Insert "$20"                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR KREISS-TOMKINS objected for the  purpose of discussion.  He                                                               
explained that Amendment  3 addresses the fee for  a compliant ID                                                               
card.    He relayed  testimony  during  the [4/4/17,  5:40  p.m.]                                                               
committee meeting:  with a $10 increase  in the fee for a REAL ID                                                               
compliant  ID, the  cost  of  the program  could  be recouped  in                                                               
[about] five  years.  He  stated that Amendment 3  would increase                                                               
the fee to $20 over the  fee for a noncompliant ID card, reducing                                                               
the payback period  to 2.5 years.  He asked  Ms. Ridle to confirm                                                               
the accuracy of his statements.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MS. RIDLE  replied that  his assessment was  correct based  on 50                                                               
percent of people  obtaining a REAL ID; if fewer  people obtain a                                                               
REAL ID, it  would take longer to recoup; and  if less obtained a                                                               
REAL ID, it would be recouped in a shorter period.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE TUCK also objected to  Amendment 3 for the purpose                                                               
of discussion.   He referred  to the  fees charged by  AAMVA that                                                               
Alaska pays  on a per-ID basis,  which is included in  the fiscal                                                               
note.    He   asked  if  there  are  fees   associated  with  the                                                               
verification  of a  passport,  since a  passport  is a  compliant                                                               
federal ID and "ranks higher" than a REAL ID card.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MS. RIDLE  replied that since  passports may be forged,  DOA must                                                               
verify them with the passport database.   She added that DOA does                                                               
get charged for those verifications.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   TUCK   asked   if  passport   data,   which   is                                                               
administered  by the  U.S.  Department of  State  (DOS), also  is                                                               
included in the State Pointer Exchange Services (SPEXS) system.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MS.  RIDLE  replied that  the  passport  database is  a  separate                                                               
database and not  part of SPEXS.  She reiterated  that DOA checks                                                               
with the DOS passport database to verify passports.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR KREISS-TOMKINS  asked if Representative Tuck's  question is                                                               
related  to the  fee for  a  REAL ID  compliant driver's  license                                                               
[addressed in Amendment 3].                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE TUCK answered that his  concern is that the fiscal                                                               
note  reflects  all  the  fees  and  memberships  that  would  be                                                               
involved  under the  proposed legislation.   He  stated that  the                                                               
purpose  of  Amendment  3  is   to  "buy  down"  the  burden  [of                                                               
implementing REAL ID] sooner rather than later.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  KREISS-TOMKINS asked  Representative Tuck  if he  believes                                                               
that Amendment  3 - to increase  the fee for a  REAL ID compliant                                                               
ID - would  not actually reduce the time in  which the investment                                                               
is reimbursed.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE TUCK answered that the  increase in the fee [under                                                               
Amendment 3] may not reduce the time as much as desired.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
4:42:08 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  LEDOUX   suggested  that   Representative  Tuck's                                                               
concern is that  the fiscal note of $1.5 million  may not include                                                               
the cost of Alaska belonging  to these organizations and the dues                                                               
required.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  TUCK   responded  that   Representative  LeDoux's                                                               
assessment is correct.  He  said that the committee expressed its                                                               
desire to reduce  the time [for reimbursement] to  two years, and                                                               
he stated that he wants to make sure that is still possible.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  KREISS-TOMKINS   suggested  that  the  issue   relayed  by                                                               
Representative Tuck  is broader  than the  scope of  Amendment 3.                                                               
He  stated that  as Ms.  Ridle  noted, the  percentage of  people                                                               
choosing  to  obtain  REAL  ID compliant  IDs  will  dictate  the                                                               
payback period,  and at this  point, DOA is basing  its estimates                                                               
on assumptions.   He offered that it is a  sure statement that by                                                               
increasing the  fees, the  payback period  will be  reduced, even                                                               
though the eventual length of that period is unknown.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
4:43:23 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE WOOL asked if under  Amendment 3, the fee would be                                                               
doubled again after it was previously doubled.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR KREISS-TOMKINS  answered, "That's what the  amendment would                                                               
do."                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  WOOL  suggested  that  if a  $5  surcharge  would                                                               
result in  a payback  period of  ten years,  and a  $10 surcharge                                                               
would reduce it  to five years, an additional $5,  not $10, for a                                                               
total of  $15, should reduce  it to 2.5 years.   He asked  for an                                                               
explanation of  the motivation for  additional reductions  in the                                                               
payback period.   He  asked if  paying back  the investment  in a                                                               
shorter time would  result then in additional revenue  for DMV or                                                               
DOA,  or if  the fee  would be  reduced after  the investment  is                                                               
reimbursed, so that the first  few thousand-people obtaining REAL                                                               
IDs pay the higher fee, and after that the fee would be reduced.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MS. RIDLE  maintained that  funds generated by  the fees  go into                                                               
the general fund  (GF), not to DMV  or DOA.  She  stated that DMV                                                               
currently contributes  $30-40 million to  GF, and any  funds from                                                               
additional fees would increase that contribution.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   WOOL   stated   that   he   supports   recouping                                                               
implementation costs  to make  the program  "price neutral."   He                                                               
maintained that  a $20 additional  fee will create a  surplus for                                                               
GF; he  supports increasing GF, but  not in that way.   He opined                                                               
that paying off  the cost of the program in  five years through a                                                               
$10 fee  is reasonable.  He  stated that under Amendment  3, many                                                               
Alaskans who  will be required  to get REAL IDs,  including those                                                               
wanting  to  travel  by  air,   would  be  required  to  pay  the                                                               
additional $20 fee, for a total cost of $40.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
4:47:15 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX declared that it  is not "end of the world"                                                               
if  the funds  are added  to  GF.   She  stated that  she is  not                                                               
"thrilled" with REAL  ID, but she maintained that  if people want                                                               
REAL IDs, "let them pay for it."                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE TUCK commented that his  concern is to ensure that                                                               
the $20  surcharge covers the cost  of the program.   He referred                                                               
to  the testimony  of Maine  Senator Shenna  Bellows, who  opined                                                               
that it  would be better  for Alaska to subsidize  passport cards                                                               
rather than  be REAL ID compliant.   He removed his  objection to                                                               
Amendment 3.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR KREISS-TOMKINS also removed his objection to Amendment 3.                                                                 
There being no further objection, Amendment 3 was adopted.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
[HB 74 was held over.]