Legislature(2017 - 2018)GRUENBERG 120

03/21/2017 05:30 PM House STATE AFFAIRS

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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
-- Delayed to 5:45 pm Today --
Moved SCR 2 Out of Committee
Heard & Held
-- Public Testimony --
Heard & Held
-- Public Testimony --
         HB 74-DRIVER'S LICENSE & ID CARDS & REAL ID AC                                                                     
[Contains brief mention of HJR 15 and SB 34.]                                                                                   
6:11:37 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR KREISS-TOMKINS  announced that  the next order  of business                                                               
would  be   HOUSE  BILL   NO.  74,  "An   Act  relating   to  the                                                               
implementation of the  federal REAL ID Act of  2005; and relating                                                               
to issuance  of identification cards  and driver's  licenses; and                                                               
providing for an effective date."                                                                                               
6:12:17 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR KREISS-TOMKINS opened public testimony on HB 74.                                                                          
6:12:41 PM                                                                                                                    
SHARICE   WALKER,  Director,   Community  and   Public  Relations                                                               
Department,   Fairbanks  North   Star  Borough   School  District                                                               
(FNSBSD), testified that  the FNSBSD supports HB 74.   She stated                                                               
that the  school district  serves about  1,400 students  at three                                                               
schools on Eielson  Air Force Base (EAFB) and one  school on Fort                                                               
Wainwright, and  this accounts  for slightly  over 10  percent of                                                               
the  FNSBSD student  population.   She  said that  there are  162                                                               
regular  staff and  many district-wide  employees  who visit  the                                                               
schools regularly  to deliver  instruction, serve  student needs,                                                               
and  provide support  to school  staff.   She maintained  that on                                                               
average,  each  school  requires  three  to  five  substitute  or                                                               
temporary  staff each  day, and  without  a state  identification                                                               
(ID)  option,  hundreds of  staff  members  will be  required  to                                                               
obtain a  passport to work  on base.   She mentioned  that FNSBSD                                                               
already  struggles  to  attract  substitutes  to  fill  absences,                                                               
especially at EAFB  because of its distance from  Fairbanks.  She                                                               
asserted  that the  additional obstacle  of requiring  a passport                                                               
will increase that challenge.                                                                                                   
MS.  WALKER  continued  by  saying  that  many  of  the  students                                                               
attending the  school at  EAFB are  civilian students  from Moose                                                               
Creek, Salcha,  and North Pole.   This allows students  to attend                                                               
the  schools that  are  closest to  their  neighborhoods, and  it                                                               
promotes  schools having  adequate numbers  to create  viable and                                                               
vibrant school  environments.  She  said this  arrangement allows                                                               
families from  the surrounding community access  to their school,                                                               
and until now, a valid Alaska  ID has been sufficient for access.                                                               
She attested that  without a state ID option,  families would not                                                               
be able to  attend a school event, participate  in parent teacher                                                               
conferences, or  even pick up  a sick child, without  a passport.                                                               
She asserted  that this would  create a barrier  between civilian                                                               
parents  and  their  children attending  on-base  schools.    She                                                               
concluded that  in the interest of  maintaining excellent service                                                               
to the students and sustaining  the strong and longstanding bonds                                                               
between  local communities  and the  military population,  FNSBSD                                                               
supports the passage of HB 74.                                                                                                  
6:15:41 PM                                                                                                                    
MATT  FLANDERS,  Legislative  Specialist, Citizens'  Council  for                                                               
Health Freedom  (CCHF), testified that  CCHF has opposed  REAL ID                                                               
at  the federal  level and  lead the  effort against  REAL ID  in                                                               
Minnesota.  He said that REAL  ID has been called a key provision                                                               
of  the 9/11  Commission  Report in  response  to [the  terrorist                                                               
attacks  of  September 11,  2001],  but  he maintained  that  was                                                               
inaccurate.   He mentioned  that in  the nearly  600-page report,                                                               
there  are only  four  sentences dedicated  to securing  driver's                                                               
licenses and ID cards.                                                                                                          
MR. FLANDERS stated that in  February, Maine's Secretary of State                                                               
[Matthew Dunlap]  commented, "If we  were to comply with  REAL ID                                                               
today  and the  911 terrorists  were  to stroll  into the  Bangor                                                               
Branch of  the Bureau of Motor  Vehicles and apply for  REAL IDs,                                                               
the  irony is  that they  would still  get them."   Mr.  Flanders                                                               
asserted  that  REAL  ID  does   not  protect  the  country  from                                                               
terrorism  but  creates a  new  set  of problems  regarding  data                                                               
security.    He maintained  that  REAL  ID  requires a  state  to                                                               
provide  electronic access  to all  information contained  in the                                                               
state's  motor vehicle  database.   In addition,  under REAL  ID,                                                               
states would be  required to send certain information  to a "hub"                                                               
controlled  by   the  American   Association  of   Motor  Vehicle                                                               
Administrators  (AAMVA).   He  asserted  that  the required  data                                                               
elements  include  sensitive  personal  information  such  as  an                                                               
individual's Social  Security number  (SSN).  He  maintained that                                                               
Alaska's  data privacy  laws cannot  protect  the information  of                                                               
Alaskans, when the data leaves the state.                                                                                       
MR. FLANDERS continued by saying  that the most concerning aspect                                                               
of REAL  ID is  the provision  that allows  the secretary  of the                                                               
Department of  Homeland Security (DHS), an  unelected bureaucrat,                                                               
to  expand the  minimum requirements  and the  required uses  for                                                               
REAL  ID  for  official  purposes at  any  time  without  needing                                                               
congressional  approval.    He  said that  DHS  attested  in  its                                                               
[final] rule [for implementation of the  REAL ID Act] that it did                                                               
not have  to seek congressional  approval to make changes  in the                                                               
future.   He  asserted  that congressmen  of  either party  could                                                               
envision  an administration  or  individual that  could do  great                                                               
harm to the  American people while wielding  such ultimate power.                                                               
He  offered that  DHS  clearly  intends to  make  changes in  the                                                               
future, evidenced  by the 2014  addition to the [DHS  final] rule                                                               
requiring  states to  recertify  REAL ID  compliance every  three                                                               
years.     He   said   that  the   only   reason  for   requiring                                                               
recertification  would  be if  changes  to  the requirements  are                                                               
MR. FLANDERS  maintained that  REAL ID  is a  federal ID,  and it                                                               
reverses  the longstanding  state  authority over  identification                                                               
and driving privileges.   He asserted that  if Alaska voluntarily                                                               
submits to  REAL ID, it  would become increasingly  difficult for                                                               
it  to resort  to lawsuits.   He  relayed that  the U.S.  Supreme                                                               
Court ruled  in Printz v.  United States  that a state  cannot be                                                             
commandeered by the  federal government to implement  and pay for                                                               
federal  programs.   He  said  that  DHS and  the  Transportation                                                               
Security Administration  (TSA) can threaten and  coerce, but that                                                               
is all they  can do, and that  is why six REAL  ID deadlines have                                                               
come and gone.                                                                                                                  
MR. FLANDERS stated  that on military bases,  the base commanders                                                               
set the standards.  He said  that Fort Huachuca in Arizona allows                                                               
26 documents including  utility bills and library  cards for base                                                               
access.   He  mentioned that  the State  of Alaska  would not  be                                                               
alone in not  complying [with REAL ID].  He  learned from Montana                                                               
U.S. Senator  [Steve] Daines's office  that there is  no interest                                                               
within  the [Montana]  legislature to  even introduce  a REAL  ID                                                               
compliance bill.   Mr. Flanders stated that  the Minnesota Senate                                                               
recently voted down a REAL ID bill by a vote of 39-28.                                                                          
MR. FLANDERS  concluded that  in the name  of states'  rights, of                                                               
protecting the  data privacy of  constituents, and  of protecting                                                               
constituents'  right to  travel, he  urged the  committee members                                                               
not to "give in to" the  federal threats regarding REAL ID and to                                                               
vote against HB 74.                                                                                                             
6:20:06 PM                                                                                                                    
EDWARD HASBROUCK,  Identity Project,  testified in  opposition to                                                               
HB  74.    He  stated  that  the  Identity  Project  defends  the                                                               
fundamental  American right  to  move about  the country  without                                                               
having  to   show  documents  or   obtain  permission   from  the                                                               
government.   He asserted that  the federal  REAL ID Act  of 2005                                                               
requires each compliant  state to make its  database available to                                                               
all other states.  He maintained  that the only system capable of                                                               
accomplishing this  relies on uploading "pointers"  to a national                                                               
database  called  the  State Pointer  Exchange  Services  (SPEXS)                                                               
located  in Virginia  and  operated by  AAMVA  and a  contractor,                                                               
Clerus Solutions.   He  said that participation  in SPEXS  is the                                                               
only  way to  comply with  the  REAL ID  Act, so  if AAMVA  later                                                               
decides that  a state needs  to upload photographs or  other data                                                               
for the  national database, the  state cannot refuse  or withdraw                                                               
from  SPEXS  without  immediately  becoming  non-compliant.    He                                                               
asserted that  HB 74 would  "hand over" Alaska's  information and                                                               
how it is  used to a private outside organization  not subject to                                                               
any   accountability  or   transparency  rules   that  apply   to                                                               
government agencies,  such as the  federal Privacy Act  [of 1974]                                                               
or the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA).                                                                                       
MR. HASBROUCK asserted that someone  who requests a non-compliant                                                               
ID  will   think  he/she  has   opted  out  of   sending  his/her                                                               
information to a  national database, but that would  not be true.                                                               
He said  that the law  requires data  on all IDs,  including non-                                                               
compliant  ones,  to be  included  [in  the data  transfer],  and                                                               
Alaska has already uploaded pointers from Alaskans' current non-                                                                
compliant IDs to the national database.   He said that the choice                                                               
seemingly offered  for a  non-compliant license  is a  phony one.                                                               
He stated that  Alaska uploaded pointers from Alaskan  IDs to the                                                               
SPEXS  database last  January.   He relayed  that only  14 states                                                               
have uploaded  their state data to  SPEXS.  More than  85 percent                                                               
of the  U.S. population  live in  states that  are not  yet SPEXS                                                               
participants and  are not  compliant with  the REAL  ID Act.   He                                                               
reiterated that Alaska is not alone.                                                                                            
MR. HASBROUCK  referred to the  fear of  needing a federal  ID to                                                               
access military bases.  He  said from what Identity Project staff                                                               
has  heard  from  other  states,  it  has  not  been  a  problem.                                                               
Occasional visitors can  be escorted [on base]  until they obtain                                                               
a federal  ID - typically  a passport  card.  He  maintained that                                                               
anyone who  qualifies for  a compliant state  ID qualifies  for a                                                               
passport card.   A  passport card  can be used  for all  the same                                                               
purposes as well as land or  sea travel to Canada, which would be                                                               
a major benefit  for Alaskans.  He asserted that  a passport card                                                               
is often  easier to  obtain than  a compliant  state ID  and much                                                               
cheaper than a full passport.                                                                                                   
MR. HASBROUCK  stated that Identity Project  staff regularly hear                                                               
from people who  are having problems getting  compliant state IDs                                                               
in other states.  He maintained  that these people are most often                                                               
elderly  people,  people  who  have  moved  and  need  to  obtain                                                               
documents  from their  state of  birth,  or people  born at  home                                                               
rather than in  a hospital.  He said that  people in other states                                                               
can get  a non-compliant ID and  travel by road, but  this is not                                                               
an option in parts of Alaska.   He maintained that if the federal                                                               
government  tries to  "make good"  on its  threat of  interfering                                                               
with air  travel, Alaska needs a  "Plan B" for people  who do not                                                               
have the  documents needed to obtain  a compliant ID but  need to                                                               
fly, even if the state becomes compliant.                                                                                       
MR. HASBROUCK stated  that at present, no law  requires anyone to                                                               
show ID  to fly.   He maintained  that if the  federal government                                                               
tries  to  change  that,  Alaska is  uniquely  well  situated  to                                                               
challenge the legality  of such a restriction  on Alaskans' right                                                               
to travel.                                                                                                                      
MR.  HASBROUCK urged  legislators  not only  to  work with  their                                                               
congressional delegation  to repeal the  REAL ID Act but  also to                                                               
collaborate  with  the  Alaska attorney  general  to  prepare  to                                                               
defend the right of Alaskans  to freedom of travel, including air                                                               
travel.  He mentioned the  proposed legislation, HJR 15, which is                                                               
a  joint resolution  encouraging repeal  of  the REAL  ID Act  of                                                               
2005.   He  advocated for  Alaska to  initiate litigation  at the                                                               
earliest opportunity to preempt  these federal threats through an                                                               
injunction barring  the federal government from  interfering with                                                               
Alaskans' right to travel.                                                                                                      
6:24:13 PM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE  WOOL asked  for confirmation  that Alaska  DMV is                                                               
currently  uploading  current  driver's  license  information  to                                                               
MR. HASBROUCK responded yes, it  occurred as a "batch upload" for                                                               
all Alaska licenses and ID cards over the weekend of January 28.                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  WOOL asked  if the  upload includes  all the  DMV                                                               
data or just a portion.  He asked, "Do they have my license?"                                                                   
MR.  HASBROUCK answered  that SPEXS  would have  some information                                                               
about  Representative  Wool's  license.     He  relayed  that  at                                                               
present, [Identity Project  staff] does not know what  data is in                                                               
SPEXS  because although  they obtained  the SPEXS  specifications                                                               
one  year ago,  as soon  as  the Identity  Project published  the                                                               
specifications,  AAMVA moved  the specifications  onto a  private                                                               
section of  its website.  He  stated that the key  danger is that                                                               
the pointer  data, which  already includes  SSNs, now  resides in                                                               
the database  in Virginia.   He asserted that the  database could                                                               
be expanded at AAMVA's sole  discretion with no accountability to                                                               
Alaska and  that expansion would most  likely include photographs                                                               
with the pointers.                                                                                                              
REPRESENTATIVE WOOL asked how  the verification and documentation                                                               
process for  getting a passport  differs from getting a  REAL ID.                                                               
He asked  if getting  a passport  is less  intrusive or  does not                                                               
involve a central database such as SPEXS.                                                                                       
MR.  HASBROUCK  replied that  a  passport  card  is all  that  is                                                               
required, which  is less than half  the cost of a  full passport.                                                               
He added that  the passport card is a wallet  sized plastic card.                                                               
He maintained  that obtaining a  passport card is a  much simpler                                                               
process;  one can  apply at  a  post office  and verify  identity                                                               
through  an identifying  witness.   He mentioned  that one  would                                                               
still be  required to show  documents verifying citizenship.   He                                                               
stated  that the  central database  for  passports is  kept by  a                                                               
federal  agency, which  is  subject  to FOIA.    The agency  must                                                               
publish  a  notice  of  contents  and  use  before  creating  the                                                               
database; it  must enable the public  to find out what  is in the                                                               
database; and  it must  have a  mechanism for  correcting errors.                                                               
He offered that his organization  has been trying to discover how                                                               
to correct errors  in SPEXS and "it's a nightmare."   He asserted                                                               
that [Clerus Solutions]  aggregates data from all  the states and                                                               
takes no responsibility  for it.  He gave  the following example:                                                               
If there  is a pointer  in SPEXS associated with  an individual's                                                               
name, that person  cannot obtain a license,  because the database                                                               
indicates that  the person has a  license in another state.   The                                                               
individual  then needs  to  figure out  which  state posted  that                                                               
pointer and work  through that state to  correct the information.                                                               
If AAMVA makes  the mistake, and the pointer  does not correspond                                                               
to data  from any state,  that is a  "catch-22," and there  is no                                                               
way to fix it.                                                                                                                  
REPRESENTATIVE WOOL  referred to  Mr. Hasbrouck's  statement that                                                               
it is  not federal law  that requires a person  to show an  ID at                                                               
the airport.   He  mentioned that  he believes  that it  would be                                                               
difficult to travel by  air without an ID.  He  asked if that was                                                               
a TSA policy.                                                                                                                   
MR. HASBROUCK responded, "It's a  myth actually."  He stated that                                                               
in 2002,  the founder  of the  Identity Project  sued challenging                                                               
the  ID requirement.    He said  the case  was  dismissed by  the                                                               
United  States Court  of Appeals  for the  Ninth Circuit  ("Ninth                                                               
Circuit"),  which   has  jurisdiction  over  Alaska,   after  TSA                                                               
presented evidence  that its policy  includes a process  by which                                                               
people can fly  without IDs.  He mentioned  that his organization                                                               
has made a FOIA request for  the reports showing this TSA policy.                                                               
He  added that  people do  fly without  IDs every  day; they  are                                                               
usually people who  have lost their licenses; it  slows them down                                                               
a little, but not much.                                                                                                         
6:28:43 PM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX asked Mr. Hasbrouck  if he knew how long it                                                               
takes for a person to be  processed for flying if he/she does not                                                               
show an ID.                                                                                                                     
MR. HASBROUCK reiterated that his  organization has requested the                                                               
reports showing TSA's  policy on that, but the  response has been                                                               
slow.  He  suggested that the wait time [for  being processed] is                                                               
typically 10-20 minutes on average.                                                                                             
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX asked if the traveler is strip searched.                                                                  
MR. HASBROUCK stated that everyone  is at risk of being processed                                                               
through the  "naked scanner,"  which amounts  to a  virtual strip                                                               
search.   He  said  that  TSA claims  that  it  has authority  to                                                               
require a person  to submit to whatever they  define as screening                                                               
at  that time.   He  added that  there are  no published  federal                                                               
regulations that define the scope of authority of TSA.                                                                          
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX  referred to  the categories of  people who                                                               
might have  difficulties obtaining a  REAL ID compliant  ID, such                                                               
as the  elderly or someone having  been born at home.   She asked                                                               
if these  difficulties would also  apply to people  attempting to                                                               
get a passport card.                                                                                                            
MR. HASBROUCK answered, "Absolutely."   He asserted that in other                                                               
states, there is a  "fall back":  one can drive  or take the bus.                                                               
He  added that  in  many places  in Alaska,  "if  you can't  jump                                                               
through those  hoops," you cannot  get to other places  or access                                                               
essential services.  He maintained  there is a difference between                                                               
requiring  a person  to  take  a bus  and  "trapping"  them in  a                                                               
community that  is accessible only by  air.  He stated  that even                                                               
if  Alaska becomes  REAL ID  compliant,  it would  still have  to                                                               
address the issue of the right to travel by air.                                                                                
6:31:14 PM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX  asked if  a REAL ID  could be  obtained by                                                               
mail or would require a visit to a DMV office.                                                                                  
6:31:35 PM                                                                                                                    
MARLA  THOMPSON,  Director,  Division of  Motor  Vehicles  (DMV),                                                               
Department of Administration (DOA),  answered that the first time                                                               
a person obtains a REAL ID,  he/she would need to provide his/her                                                               
source  documents, but  after that,  renewals would  be available                                                               
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX suggested there would  be a great number of                                                               
people waiting in line at DMV,  if HB 74 passes and is initiated.                                                               
She asked  if DMV  has made  plans to  accommodate the  crowds of                                                               
people who will be attempting to obtain REAL IDs.                                                                               
MS. THOMPSON  replied that DMV  staff has considered that  and is                                                               
hoping  for early  passage of  the proposed  legislation to  give                                                               
them more  time to  process the  IDs.   She expressed  her belief                                                               
that people will pursue obtaining  REAL IDs based on their travel                                                               
needs, and  DMV will  need to provide  information to  the public                                                               
regarding that.   She  asserted that  getting a  REAL ID  is less                                                               
intrusive than getting  a passport card, because one  must have a                                                               
passport to  obtain a  passport card.   She  added that  one must                                                               
send  in his/her  birth certificate  with  the [application]  and                                                               
wait for it to be returned  by mail.  She maintained that getting                                                               
a  REAL ID  at DMV  would just  involve showing  one's documents,                                                               
which  are immediately  returned.   She added  that DMV  would be                                                               
applying  for an  extension with  DHS so  that having  a REAL  ID                                                               
would not be required until the final date [of the extension].                                                                  
6:34:05 PM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE  LEDOUX  asked  for confirmation  that  getting  a                                                               
passport  card   requires  someone  to  send   in  his/her  birth                                                               
certificate, if  he/she already  has a  passport.   She mentioned                                                               
that  she has  always renewed  her  passport by  mailing her  old                                                               
passport in  [to the U.S.  Department of  State].  She  asked why                                                               
that  would be  different for  getting  a passport  card, if  one                                                               
already had a passport.                                                                                                         
MS.  THOMPSON clarified  that one  would  not have  to produce  a                                                               
document if he/she  already had a passport.  She  added that many                                                               
people do not  already have passports.  She said  that people can                                                               
get passport cards at the same time as they get their passports.                                                                
6:35:27 PM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE TUCK asked  if there are dues or  fees required to                                                               
be a member of AMVAA.                                                                                                           
MR. HASBROUCK,  in response  to Representative  LeDoux's previous                                                               
question,  stated that  an individual  does  not have  to have  a                                                               
passport to obtain a passport  card.  He maintained that passport                                                               
cards were  specifically devised to  be a cheaper  alternative to                                                               
the full passport.   He said that to obtain  a passport card, one                                                               
could send in  his/her birth certificate or show it  in person at                                                               
the passport office in Anchorage.                                                                                               
MR. HASBROUCK,  in response to  Representative Tuck,  stated that                                                               
AAMVA is a  private non-profit organization; the  members are the                                                               
directors  of state  and provincial  motor vehicle  associations.                                                               
He asserted  that since AAMVA  is a private organization,  it can                                                               
choose to  disclose as much  or as little  as it wants  about its                                                               
internal procedures and decision-making.                                                                                        
REPRESENTATIVE TUCK  asked if AAMVA  charges dues or fees,  or if                                                               
it provides a free service to the state.                                                                                        
MS. THOMPSON replied  that the state does pay a  fee to belong to                                                               
AAMVA  and pays  additional fees  depending on  its use  of AAMVA                                                               
6:37:33 PM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE TUCK  asked how much  the state has paid  to AAMVA                                                               
since entering a contract with it in January.                                                                                   
MS.  THOMPSON explained  that since  Alaska was  part of  a pilot                                                               
program, there were no fees to sign up or for the first year.                                                                   
6:38:27 PM                                                                                                                    
SARAH LEFEBVRE, Coalaska, Greater  Fairbanks Chamber of Commerce,                                                               
stated  that  she  was  testifying   in  behalf  of  the  Greater                                                               
Fairbanks Chamber  of Commerce and her  employer, Coalaska, which                                                             
is the parent  company for SECON and  Emulsion Products ("SECON")                                                               
in  Southeast  Alaska,  Quality   Asphalt  Paving  (QAP)  in  the                                                               
Anchorage area,  and Exclusive  Paving in  Interior Alaska.   She                                                               
said, "We respect  the efforts of the legislature  to protect the                                                               
identity and  the data  of Alaskans; however,  this is  a federal                                                               
requirement  that can't  be avoided,  and Alaska  has run  out of                                                               
time.   We are both  heartened and disheartened for  this finally                                                               
being addressed  now.  At this  time, we are concerned  about the                                                               
cost of inaction."                                                                                                              
MS. LEFEBVRE maintained  that if legislation does  not pass, then                                                               
there  will  be  an  adverse economic  impact  in  Fairbanks  and                                                               
throughout the state.   She mentioned that  the military accounts                                                               
for one-third of the economy  of the Fairbanks North Star Borough                                                               
(FNSB), much  of which comes  from military contracts  with local                                                               
businesses  and   individuals  for  both  short-   and  long-term                                                               
endeavors.   She asserted  that in the  face of  upcoming federal                                                               
deadlines,  Alaska's continued  non-compliance with  the REAL  ID                                                               
Act  will  create  a  barrier to  Alaska  businesses  that  would                                                               
otherwise be  involved in  the construction  industry.   She said                                                               
that out-of-state  workers will be  given the advantage  for work                                                               
hours on military installations,  because most states are issuing                                                               
REAL ID  compliant IDs.   She mentioned  the irony of  Alaska not                                                               
encouraging local hire as are other states.                                                                                     
MS. LEFEBVRE  offered that it  is critical that  legislation pass                                                               
this year, due  to the approaching deadlines  established by DHS.                                                               
She said  that the consequences  of non-compliance with  the REAL                                                               
ID  Act  would  affect  Alaska   businesses  as  early  as  June,                                                               
regarding  access to  military facilities,  and by  next January,                                                               
regarding  travel.   She  asserted  that  Alaska must  take  this                                                               
necessary step  toward compliance now,  as DMV will need  as long                                                               
as a year to have the  necessary equipment and processes in place                                                               
to provide  the compliant IDs.   She offered that  without action                                                               
that at  least indicates a  good faith effort  toward compliance,                                                               
Alaska will  likely run  out of  deadline extensions,  making the                                                               
proposed  legislation inevitable.   She  stated that  passing the                                                               
proposed  legislation  now rather  than  later  would reduce  the                                                               
impact to  working Alaskans and  the businesses that  employ them                                                               
in the near-term and would resolve the impending travel issue.                                                                  
6:40:40 PM                                                                                                                    
SCOTT  EICKHOLT, Alaska  Laborers  Local 942,  testified that  he                                                               
represents over  1,000 members of  the Alaska Laborers  Local 942                                                               
in Fairbanks and  the outlying areas.  He said  that he concurred                                                               
with Ms.  Lefebvre's testimony.   He  asserted that  "kicking the                                                               
can down the road  doesn't do us any good."   He relayed that the                                                               
members of  his union are looking  for work and waiting  for work                                                               
to  become available.   He  offered  that getting  a passport  is                                                               
expensive,  and even  getting the  less  expensive passport  card                                                               
constitutes a burden on the union  members.  He stated that since                                                               
a birth certificate is required to  obtain a passport, he sees no                                                               
difference  in  the requirements  for  getting  a  REAL ID.    He                                                               
suggested that  the information  on his  ID is  basic and  can be                                                               
harvested  from many  generic  websites.   He  mentioned that  he                                                               
didn't understand  the "fear" regarding  REAL ID.   He reiterated                                                               
that  postponing  passage  of  HB   74  would  just  prolong  the                                                               
inevitable,  put a  burden on  the  union workers,  and put  non-                                                               
residents to work before Alaskan residents.                                                                                     
6:42:35 PM                                                                                                                    
KAREN PERRY testified in opposition to  HB 74.  She cited Article                                                               
1,  Section 22,  of  the Alaska  Constitution,  titled "Right  of                                                               
Privacy," which  read as follows:   "The  right of the  people to                                                               
privacy is recognized and shall  not be infringed."  She asserted                                                               
that  the legislature's  job and  sworn  oath is  to protect  the                                                               
rights  of Alaskans.   She  maintained that  legislators may  not                                                               
allow the  federal government to  dictate illegally  to Alaskans,                                                               
pass illegal bills usurping the  right of Alaskans to privacy, or                                                               
pass a bill that violates Alaskans' liberties.                                                                                  
MS. PERRY maintained that the REAL  ID Act was not passed through                                                               
a  true democratic  process; it  was "slipped  through" the  U.S.                                                               
Congress in  May 2005  in a must-pass,  Iraq war,  tsunami relief                                                               
supplemental bill as part of  a deal reached between the powerful                                                               
Congressman  James Sensenbrenner,  a  Republican from  Wisconsin,                                                               
and the congressional leadership.   She asserted that the process                                                               
did not  allow time  for sufficient consideration  of the  Act or                                                               
its sweeping implications.   She maintained that there  was not a                                                               
single hearing  on the Act in  the U.S. Senate.   She opined that                                                               
the REAL ID Act lacks the  legitimacy that comes from having been                                                               
studied,  [vetted],  considered,  and   directly  voted  upon  by                                                               
elected representatives.                                                                                                        
MS.  PERRY  said, "This  insane  bill  is  nothing more  than  an                                                               
illegal constitution busting  piece of tyranny."   (indisc.)  She                                                               
reiterated that it is the duty  and sworn oath of the legislature                                                               
to maintain  and protect the rights  of Alaskans.  She  asked the                                                               
committee  members  to honor  that  oath.   She  maintained  that                                                               
Alaskans  should never  willingly  comply  with federal  tyranny.                                                               
She urged  the committee members to  stop HB 74 in  committee and                                                               
said  that it  is  not the  committee's job  to  give Alaskans  a                                                               
choice  between  a  driver's  license   and  an  illegal  license                                                               
resulting  from federal  overreach.   She maintained  that Alaska                                                               
deserves  legislators  who   understand  the  difference  between                                                               
constitutional laws and unconstitutional  laws and are willing to                                                               
take a  stand against federal  tyranny.  She asked  the committee                                                               
members to vote "no" on HB 74.                                                                                                  
6:46:11 PM                                                                                                                    
PAM GOODE testified that she is  adamantly opposed to HB 74.  She                                                               
relayed that data is extremely  valuable and helpful in achieving                                                               
long-term  and short-term  goals:    in the  hands  of the  right                                                               
people, it  is absolutely  wonderful; in the  hands of  the wrong                                                               
people,  it  can be  extremely  dangerous.    She said  that  the                                                               
framers  of the  U.S. Constitution  had  this in  mind when  they                                                               
wrote the  Bill of Rights  and the  Fourth Amendment of  the U.S.                                                               
Constitution.   She  offered that  Alaskans also  understood this                                                               
when they implemented Article 1,  Section 22, "Right to Privacy,"                                                               
of the Alaska Constitution.                                                                                                     
MS.  GOODE  asserted  that  the  government,  in  protecting  the                                                               
public's inalienable  rights, should  not give people  the choice                                                               
of privacy protection.   She maintained that  many people blindly                                                               
trust  the government.   She  asserted that  HB 74  is not  about                                                               
security; if  it were about  security than the  country's borders                                                               
would have been secured long ago.   She attested that the support                                                               
for HB  74 is driven  by the government  mandate and fear  of the                                                               
consequences of non-compliance [with the REAL ID Act].                                                                          
[Ms.   Goode's   testimony  was   cut   off   due  to   technical                                                               
6:48:49 PM                                                                                                                    
WILLIAM TOPEL testified that  he urges a "no" vote on  HB 74.  He                                                               
asserted  that  the REAL  ID  Act  is  a  violation of  the  U.S.                                                               
Constitution,  the Alaska  Constitution,  and AS  44.99.040.   He                                                               
said  that  currently there  already  exists  a violation  -  the                                                               
facial  [recognition] biometric  signature, which  is taken  from                                                               
the  new Alaska  driver's licenses  without consent.   He  stated                                                               
that  the data  is being  shared with  a private  company of  the                                                               
Netherlands by  the name of  Gemalto.  He  declared that to  be a                                                               
clear violation  of the Alaska  Constitution, Article  1, Section                                                               
22, "Right to Privacy."                                                                                                         
MR. TOPEL  relayed that the  REAL ID Act  was signed into  law by                                                               
President George W. Bush in  2005, and it turned states' driver's                                                               
licenses into  national identity cards.   He maintained  that the                                                               
Act was "rushed"  through the U.S. Congress as  a must-pass, Iraq                                                               
war, tsunami  relief supplemental bill, without  a single hearing                                                               
in  the  U.S. Senate.    He  asserted  that  the Act  lacked  the                                                               
legitimacy  that   comes  from  having  been   studied,  debated,                                                               
considered, and directly voted upon by elected representatives.                                                                 
MR. TOPEL  stated that the problems  of non-compliance identified                                                               
by  some people  were  not problems  that  people, employees,  or                                                               
contractors had before passage of the  REAL ID Act.  He said this                                                               
demonstrates the  onerous burden  of complying  with the  REAL ID                                                               
Act.   He suggested that  maybe those federal  employees, federal                                                               
contractors, and others should seek  a better way to secure their                                                               
identifications  for their  businesses or  employment situations.                                                               
He maintained that most regular  Alaskans should not be burdened.                                                               
He mentioned  that University of Alaska  Anchorage (UAA) students                                                               
(indisc.) on Joint Base Elmendorf-Richardson  (JBER) can get on a                                                               
list to access base in one  week.  He added that driver's license                                                               
regulation is a  state function and not a  federal function under                                                               
the Tenth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.                                                                                   
MR. TOPEL stated that there  are two readily apparent problems of                                                               
HB 74.   He cited lines  5-6, on page  2, which read:   "A person                                                               
must clearly choose  a compliant identification card."   He cited                                                               
lines  25-26, on  page 2,  which read:   "A  person must  clearly                                                               
choose a compliant  driver's license."  He  maintained that these                                                               
two passages  "contradict an intent  to choose or issue  either a                                                               
compliant or a non-compliant license or card."                                                                                  
MR. TOPEL  urged the committee  to seek  the answers to  the many                                                               
questions  regarding HB  74 and  SB 34  in Representative  Tuck's                                                               
March  16, 2017,  letter [included  in the  committee packet]  to                                                               
Commissioner Sheldon  Fisher of the Department  of Administration                                                               
(DOA).  He offered that he  is not totally convinced that some of                                                               
the  changes  to HB  74  protect  the  rights  of Alaskans.    He                                                               
maintained that  Alaskans getting the  compliant ID card  have no                                                               
guarantee that  their information  privacy would be  protected by                                                               
private  contractors.    He  urged the  committee  not  to  allow                                                               
Governor Bill  Walker to continue to  federalize state activities                                                               
and  functions.   He asserted  that legislators  took an  oath of                                                               
office to  protect and  defend both  the Alaska  Constitution and                                                               
U.S.  Constitution; the  right to  privacy is  part of  what they                                                               
swore to protect and defend.  He urged a "no" vote on HB 74.                                                                    
6:52:27 PM                                                                                                                    
MIKE COONS  testified that there is  no mention of REAL  ID under                                                               
DHS in President  Donald Trump's budget.  He relayed  that to the                                                               
contrary,  the   document  discusses  eliminating   and  reducing                                                               
unauthorized  and underperforming  programs initiated  by TSA  to                                                               
strengthen screening at airport  security checkpoints at a saving                                                               
of $80 million in the  2017 annualized continuing resolution (CR)                                                               
level.   He  added that  REAL ID  would fall  under "unauthorized                                                               
MR. COONS stated that he has  served in the U.S. military and has                                                               
worked  at the  entrance gate  at JBER  ensuring that  people who                                                               
enter the base  have proper IDs and passes.   He asserted that it                                                               
is up to the post commander as to  what ID he/she will allow.  He                                                               
said that  he concurs  with the  previous comments  regarding the                                                               
protection  of  privacy of  Alaskans.    He maintained  that  the                                                               
requirements of the REAL ID  Act were "pushed" predominantly over                                                               
the  last  eight  years  by President  Barack  Obama,  an  effort                                                               
supported by  Governor Walker.   He claimed that  Governor Walker                                                               
campaigned that he would fight  against federal overreach, but he                                                               
now supports federal overreach in the  form of HB 74 and the REAL                                                               
ID.  He  stated that he has  served in the military  all over the                                                               
world and  has seen people  have their  ID papers checked  for no                                                               
cause.   He maintained that  the current President of  the United                                                               
States upholds the U.S. Constitution,  and passing HB 74 would be                                                               
an act of stupidity by the legislature and the governor.                                                                        
6:57:16 PM                                                                                                                    
MS.  GOODE  continued  maintained  that HB  74  would  constitute                                                               
privacy  violations,  and  the current  driver's  license  is  in                                                               
violation  of AS  44.99.040, which  says that  no money  shall be                                                               
spent toward  the REAL ID.   She  asserted that the  new driver's                                                               
license under HB 74 would do  exactly that.  She stated that when                                                               
facial recognition  [software] came  into existence and  was used                                                               
without an  individual's consent  or knowledge, it  constituted a                                                               
huge violation.  She maintained  that a person with an impeccable                                                               
driver  record, who  avoided updating  his/her driver's  license,                                                               
would  "instantly  become  a  criminal" if  pulled  over  by  law                                                               
enforcement  for  any reason.    She  maintained that  there  are                                                               
people who were born  at home, did not obtain a  SSN, and want to                                                               
maintain their  privacy.   She asserted that  some people  do not                                                               
want  to  have to  submit  to  facial  recognition to  receive  a                                                               
driver's  license.   She relayed  that she  contacted legislators                                                               
and  the governor's  office and  was  told that  since getting  a                                                               
driver's license  is a choice,  there is  no violation.   One can                                                               
travel by  a variety  of other modes,  but without  submitting to                                                               
facial  recognition  to obtain  a  driver's  license, one  cannot                                                               
drive.   She asserted  that the law  clearly requires  only color                                                               
photographs and  does not mention  facial recognition.   She said                                                               
that  if  one  updates  his/her  driver's  license  online,  then                                                               
his/her old  photograph will  be used.   She concluded  by saying                                                               
she opposes HB 74.                                                                                                              
REPRESENTATIVE TUCK asked  Ms. Goode if she was  referring to the                                                               
State of Alaska or another state regarding facial recognition.                                                                  
MS. GOODE replied that she was  referring to the State of Alaska.                                                               
She maintained that Marquis ID  Systems (MIDS) was under contract                                                               
with Alaska;  MIDS was  acquired by  Gemalto of  the Netherlands;                                                               
and  Alaska's  data  goes  to  Gemalto.    She  stated  that  the                                                               
photographs are  "facial recognition photographs," and  "it's the                                                               
crème de la crème of identity."                                                                                                 
7:00:33 PM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE WOOL asked  Ms. Thompson, Director of  the DMV, to                                                               
clarify the situation regarding use of facial recognition.                                                                      
MS. THOMPSON  responded that  DMV uses  a software  that performs                                                               
facial identification based  on pictures in the  DMV database for                                                               
the verification of  a person getting a new ID,  by comparing the                                                               
new picture with  the old picture in the database.   If the faces                                                               
do not match, a DMV employee reviews it.                                                                                        
REPRESENTATIVE  WOOL  asked if  currently  the  image capture  is                                                               
shared with anyone out-of-state.                                                                                                
MS. THOMPSON answered, "No it is not."                                                                                          
7:02:12 PM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE TUCK  asked if facial  images are included  in the                                                               
data points uploaded to AAMVA.                                                                                                  
MS. THOMPSON  answered that there  are no photos included  in the                                                             
upload.     She   added  that   for   the  State-to-State   (S2S)                                                             
Verification   Service   database,   AAMVA  requires   only   the                                                               
customer's  name, the  last five  digits of  the SSN,  birthdate,                                                               
driver's  license  or   ID,  and  the  state  of   issue.    This                                                               
information is used  to determine if an applicant  has a driver's                                                               
license from another state.   She maintained that all states have                                                               
laws that a driver may only have one driver's license.                                                                          
7:03:19 PM                                                                                                                    
TARA RICH,  Legal and Policy  Director, American  Civil Liberties                                                               
Union of  Alaska, testified  that ACLU  has heard  grave concerns                                                               
about individuals' privacy rights.   She asserted that Alaska has                                                               
been  "dealt a  very  bad  hand" with  regard  to  the choice  of                                                               
impacting citizens in a direct  way or impacting their privacy in                                                               
a direct way.   She stated that the ACLU  of Alaska's position of                                                               
opposition to REAL ID is well  known and her comments are focused                                                               
on how to comply with HB  74 in the most privacy protected manner                                                               
should the proposed legislation pass.                                                                                           
MS. RICH  referred to compliant IDs  and said that for  Alaska to                                                               
be  able to  comply with  only  the bare  minimum required  under                                                               
statute, those  requirements must be  written into the law.   She                                                               
said  that  REAL  ID  requires   the  state  to  retain  identity                                                               
documents  for  10  years.    These documents  would  be  a  U.S.                                                               
passport or  a copy of  a birth  certificate.  She  attested that                                                               
ACLU of  Alaska recommends  that only one  of these  documents be                                                               
retained and that it be destroyed  after 10 years.  She mentioned                                                               
that  the paper  application currently  required by  DMV includes                                                               
the SSN.   She  said the  ACLU of Alaska  recommends that  only a                                                               
paper  copy containing  the SSN  be  retained and  not a  scanned                                                               
digital  copy.   She added  that ACLU  of Alaska  also recommends                                                               
that  the  non-compliant ID  not  include  images of  applicants'                                                               
faces.    She  maintained  that   some  other  states  have  been                                                               
pressured by the Federal Bureau  of Investigation (FBI) to comply                                                               
with a  broader facial  recognition database,  but so  far Alaska                                                               
has not been requested to do so.   She stated that ACLU of Alaska                                                               
recommends that "enshrining" this into  law now would prevent the                                                               
additional federal overreach.                                                                                                   
7:06:54 PM                                                                                                                    
MS.  RICH  stated  that the  multi-state  shared  pointer  system                                                               
requires  certain information  about  Alaskans  be collected  and                                                               
stored in the system to  identify the individuals and ensure that                                                               
an  individual asking  for a  driver's  license does  not hold  a                                                               
driver's  license  from another  state.    She relayed  that  the                                                               
information required in this data  system is name, date of birth,                                                               
place  of birth,  and  the last  five  digits of  the  SSN.   She                                                               
mentioned that  for two individuals  with the same name,  date of                                                               
birth,  and place  of  birth, the  last five  digits  of the  SSN                                                               
ostensibly differentiates  them.  She  stated that the  last five                                                               
digits of the SSN is not required  by REAL ID and not required by                                                               
law for  S2S.   She related  that the  ACLU of  Alaska recommends                                                               
that  the last  five digits  of the  SSN not  be included  in the                                                               
information that  is shared  with other  states.   She maintained                                                               
that the last five digits of  one's SSN is a critical invasion of                                                               
privacy  because  up  until  2011,  the  first  three  digits  of                                                               
Alaskans' SSNs were  all the same - based on  location - and that                                                               
was  true for  many  parts  of the  country.    She relayed  that                                                               
knowing the  last five digits of  the SSN and the  place of birth                                                               
leaves only one  digit left to determine to derive  the full SSN.                                                               
She claimed  that for  that reason,  it was  critically important                                                               
that those  five digits not  be included with the  pointer system                                                               
information being transmitted.                                                                                                  
7:09:12 PM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE TUCK  stated his  understanding that AAMVA  is the                                                               
only organization that can operate the  SPEXS and S2S; it has the                                                               
contract for  operating them; and  there is no  federal oversight                                                               
over  AAMVA.    He  added  that   if  it  wanted  to  change  any                                                               
requirements,  it  would  need   to  register  with  the  Federal                                                               
Register,  but there  would be  no  opportunity for  debate.   He                                                               
added that any state not  complying with the new provisions would                                                               
be non-compliant.                                                                                                               
MS.  RICH replied  that there  is no  existing database  that has                                                               
been certified as  REAL ID compliant by DHS.   She added that the                                                               
[AAMVA]  database  currently  is  the  only  one  used  for  this                                                               
purpose,  and  while  AAMVA's  goal   is  that  the  database  be                                                               
compliant, it  has yet to  be determined  compliant by DHS.   She                                                               
stated  that  she  believes  that  there  would  not  be  federal                                                               
oversight; the  last five digits of  the SSN are not  required by                                                               
REAL ID  or even the  AAMVA database;  and Alaska should  be "the                                                               
state to stand up  and say" that the last five  digits of the SSN                                                               
should not be transferred to AAMVA.                                                                                             
7:11:58 PM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE TUCK asked what would  happen to Alaskans' ability                                                               
to  go on  base and  travel, if  DHS decides  that any  state not                                                               
releasing  the  last five  digits  of  the  SSN  is not  REAL  ID                                                               
MS.  RICH restated  Representative Tuck's  question:   What would                                                               
happen to  Alaskan rights if  requirements changed and  the AAMVA                                                               
database system is no longer  technically compliant with REAL ID?                                                               
She said  that since the  AAMVA database has not  been determined                                                               
to  be compliant,  it is  premature to  ask this  question.   She                                                               
stated  that  if  the  AAMVA   database  were  determined  to  be                                                               
compliant,  it  most   likely  would  retain  all   the  REAL  ID                                                               
requirements, but that would not  stop AAMVA from requesting more                                                               
privacy invasive data than what is required by REAL ID.                                                                         
REPRESENTATIVE  TUCK  referred  to the  section,  titled  "Facial                                                               
Image  Capture," in  the 03/13/17  ACLU of  Alaska letter  to the                                                               
committee, included in  the packet.  He  mentioned that according                                                               
to the  letter, Alaska DMV  is not participating in  the privacy-                                                               
compromising  facial  recognition system.    He  relayed that  an                                                               
audit  of  the facial  recognition  technology  used by  the  FBI                                                               
revealed  that the  FBI had  not followed  proper measures  under                                                               
federal law.   He stated that as  a result, if the  FBI uses this                                                               
technology, it  must conduct a Privacy  Identification Assessment                                                               
(PIA).  He said that the  FBI is attempting to convince states to                                                               
sign up  for Facial Analysis,  Comparison and  Evaluation (FACE),                                                               
and some  states are developing their  own.  He asked,  "What are                                                               
[the  states]  doing  with those  facial  recognition  and  who's                                                               
selling the software ... and what purpose do they use it for?"                                                                  
MS. RICH  answered that her understanding  is that it is  used in                                                               
criminal investigations.   She expressed that  she would research                                                               
facial recognition and update the committee.                                                                                    
7:15:22 PM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE KNOPP  asked Ms. Rich  if she had read  the paper,                                                               
titled "The Identity Project,"  submitted with Edward Hasbrouck's                                                               
3/21/17 letter, included in the committee packet.                                                                               
MS. RICH responded that she had not.                                                                                            
REPRESENTATIVE  KNOPP relayed  that  the paper  states there  are                                                               
errors  in  the AAMVA  database,  and  there  is no  process  for                                                               
correcting them.  He asked if that statement is accurate.                                                                       
MS. RICH  responded that she  has not  read the report  but would                                                               
obtain a copy and follow up on that with her contact at AAMVA.                                                                  
7:16:16 PM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX asked for any  suggestions on how to handle                                                               
the problems  that are anticipated,  if the state  determines not                                                               
to comply with REAL ID.                                                                                                         
MS.  RICH  mentioned  that  ACLU  of  Alaska  would  be  open  to                                                               
exploring  litigation as  one avenue.   She  stated that  ACLU of                                                               
Alaska would be  amenable to assisting the state  with making the                                                               
non-compliance process as smooth as possible.                                                                                   
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX asked if ACLU  has filed a lawsuit opposing                                                               
REAL ID.                                                                                                                        
MS.  RICH replied  that  there are  other  state ACLU  affiliates                                                               
going through  the same process  as ACLU  of Alaska, but  she has                                                               
not heard of  an affiliate who has filed direct  litigation for a                                                               
privacy violation.                                                                                                              
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX  asked if  lengthy litigation such  as this                                                               
might be subject  to a preliminary injunction based  on a judge's                                                               
determination of the likelihood of success.                                                                                     
MS. RICH answered that would depend  on the facts of the case and                                                               
how it  was presented.   She offered that  if the case  were well                                                               
suited  on   the  merits,  a  preliminary   injunction  could  be                                                               
7:18:49 PM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE  BIRCH   cited  the   various  methods   of  using                                                               
biometrics in  authentication, such  as facial  recognition, iris                                                               
scans,    deoxyribonucleic    acid   (DNA)    extractions,    and                                                               
fingerprints.  He offered that even  a phone can sort pictures in                                                               
order of similarities.   He asked what the  difference is between                                                               
the  passport database  that TSA  uses and  the driver's  license                                                               
database.     He  mentioned  that   there  is  already   so  much                                                               
information available  on people  that "any  sixth grader  with a                                                               
laptop and some nominal ability to do research" can access it.                                                                  
MS. RICH expressed  her understanding that a  photograph from the                                                               
front of an ID is not considered  a data point such that it would                                                               
be shared and collected in  a database nationwide.  She mentioned                                                               
that she  recognizes that  there is a  great deal  of information                                                               
publicly available,  but she said  she views information  that an                                                               
individual chooses to place in  the public arena very differently                                                               
from information that a government  compels an individual to make                                                               
public to be able to travel or go to work.                                                                                      
7:21:12 PM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE TUCK cited  the ACLU of Alaska  letter of 3/14/17,                                                               
which stated that  the legislature should ensure  that Alaska DMV                                                               
never uses  the face recognition  technology.  He asked  why that                                                               
MS. RICH responded that her  understanding is that Alaska has not                                                               
participated  yet  in  facial recognition.    She  asserted  that                                                               
facial  recognition  represents  a  very  broad  expanse  of  the                                                               
government's access  to data.   She stated  that there  have been                                                               
several U.S. Supreme Court decisions  in which U.S. Supreme Court                                                               
Justice  Sonia  Sotomayor  referenced   the  "mosaic  theory"  of                                                               
privacy  -  a  concept  which  includes  the  facial  recognition                                                               
privacy issue.   Ms. Rich said that even  though typically people                                                               
are not interested  in keeping their faces  private, using facial                                                               
recognition software  throughout a  city such  as New  York City,                                                               
where cameras  are placed everywhere throughout  the city, allows                                                               
the government to track people's  movements.  She maintained that                                                               
even if  a person is  not the  target of an  investigation, being                                                               
included in the photos allows  the government to slowly, piece by                                                               
piece, gather  and consolidate information  about the  person and                                                               
the person's private life, and  that situation is dangerous.  She                                                               
recommended that  the legislature  ensure the  facial recognition                                                               
technology not be  submitted to the FBI by  incorporating it into                                                               
7:23:15 PM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE TUCK  referenced a recent consumer  report article                                                               
that asserts  "privacy isn't dead"  and suggests ways  to protect                                                               
one's privacy.   He said the  article explained that data  is the                                                               
new currency,  and the reason  so many applications  ("apps") are                                                               
free is because of the information  that is accessed by them.  He                                                               
said he would share the article with the committee members.                                                                     
7:24:18 PM                                                                                                                    
WILLIAM DEATON testified that he and  his family oppose HB 74 and                                                               
support  HJR 15.    He  said that  he  opposes allowing  driver's                                                               
license pictures to be included  in a national system with facial                                                               
recognition software.   He asserted that it would  be a violation                                                               
of Article 1, Section 22  of the U.S. Constitution, titled "Right                                                               
to Privacy."   He relayed that  the company that uses  the facial                                                               
recognition  software is  not only  outside of  Alaska, but  in a                                                               
foreign   country;  Gemalto   is   100  percent   owned  by   the                                                               
Netherlands.  He stated that  the REAL ID Act is unconstitutional                                                               
at the federal  level, because it violates Article  1, Section 14                                                               
of the U.S. Constitution.                                                                                                       
MR. DEATON  cited a sentence in  the analysis of the  fiscal note                                                               
prepared  by  the  Department of  Military  &  Veterans'  Affairs                                                               
(DMVA), which  read as  follows:   "If this  bill is  not passed,                                                               
Alaska's  citizens would  need to  have other  federally approved                                                               
identification to  travel by air,  as well  as for access  to all                                                               
federal  buildings in  the State  of  Alaska, including  military                                                               
bases."  He asserted that the  legislature should stand up to the                                                               
federal government  by not  passing HB  74.   He referred  to the                                                               
website, realnightmare.org,  which lists seven problems  with the                                                               
REAL  ID.   He cited  the third  problem listed  on the  website,                                                               
which read as follows [original punctuation provided]:                                                                          
     Will  be a  nightmare  for  state governments. Real  ID                                                                
     requires  state governments  to  remake their  driver's                                                                  
     licenses, restructure many  of their computer databases                                                                  
      and other systems, create an extensive new document-                                                                    
     storage system, and - perhaps most difficult of all -                                                                    
      verify the "issuance, validity and completeness" of                                                                     
     every document presented at DMVs.                                                                                          
MR. DEATON urged the committee not to pass HB 74.                                                                               
7:27:23 PM                                                                                                                    
DON  ETHERIDGE,  American Federation  of  Labor  and Congress  of                                                               
Industrial Organizations (AFL-CIO) of  Alaska, testified that the                                                               
AFL-CIO of  Alaska supports HB 74.   He stated that  under HB 74,                                                               
it  would be  easier for  the members  of the  AFL-CIO to  access                                                               
bases, travel  by air, and  to work.   He reminded  the committee                                                               
that under  HB 74, obtaining  a REAL ID  would be voluntary.   He                                                               
asserted that for AFL-CIO workers, having  a REAL ID will make it                                                               
easier to access bases, because  only a driver's license would be                                                               
MR. ETHERIDGE maintained that a  person with very little computer                                                               
expertise can  access "everything" about a  person except his/her                                                               
SSN,  with only  a name  and city  of residence,  for $19.95  per                                                               
REPRESENTATIVE  JOHNSON  asked  for clarification  regarding  the                                                               
AFL-CIO of Alaska support for REAL ID.                                                                                          
MR. ETHERIDGE  replied that AFL-CIO  of Alaska is  only concerned                                                               
for its members  being able to access  military bases, airplanes,                                                               
and  their jobs.    He  added that  time  is  short [for  passing                                                               
legislation] to  allow for  easy access.   He maintained  that if                                                               
AFL-CIO of Alaska members are  unable to work, then the employers                                                               
serving the  bases will  bring in  workers from  out-of-state who                                                               
have the proper IDs.                                                                                                            
REPRESENTATIVE TUCK  stated that he  would not want to  belong to                                                               
an organization whose membership would  be willing to give up all                                                               
rights to get  on base.  He asked if  Mr. Etheridge was concerned                                                               
with  the information  going  to  a company  owned  by a  foreign                                                               
MR.  ETHERIDGE  responded that  the  information  is "out  there"                                                               
already, which is a constant concern.   He stated that he already                                                               
has had his ID stolen and his credit cards compromised.                                                                         
REPRESENTATIVE TUCK  asserted that  AFL-CIO should fight  for its                                                               
workers' protections  and not just  be concerned  with employment                                                               
and access.                                                                                                                     
7:31:50 PM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX asked  why one would be  opposed to getting                                                               
a passport card.                                                                                                                
MR. ETHERIDGE expressed his understanding  that the opposition is                                                               
due to cost and inconvenience; it  cannot be obtained at DMV, and                                                               
it requires a lengthier process.                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  LEDOUX suggested  that there  will be  complaints                                                               
about lines at  DMV when everyone tries to get  his/her ID at the                                                               
last minute.                                                                                                                    
MR. ETHERIDGE  replied that  with REAL  ID being  optional, there                                                               
would  not be  a  large  number of  people  obtaining  them.   He                                                               
mentioned  that also  many  of the  workers  have passports  that                                                               
could be used until they are able to get REAL IDs.                                                                              
7:33:10 PM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE TUCK asked if it is  easier to go to a post office                                                               
than a DMV.                                                                                                                     
MR. ETHERIDGE offered that it is  not easier due to having to get                                                               
a passport picture taken and filling out the application.                                                                       
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX  asked if getting  a passport is  that much                                                               
MR. ETHERIDGE replied  that he didn't consider it  harder, but it                                                               
is an additional  ID that would need to be  taken to work, rather                                                               
than just  a driver's license,  which a person would  be carrying                                                               
anyway in order to drive.                                                                                                       
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX  offered that  if a  member had  a passport                                                               
card, he/she would carry it in  his/her wallet just as a driver's                                                               
MR. ETHERIDGE agreed.                                                                                                           
7:34:47 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  SHENNA   BELLOWS,  testifying  on  behalf   of  herself,                                                               
mentioned  that  Maine  has  grappled with  the  same  issues  as                                                               
Alaska.  She stated that one  of the jobs of state legislators is                                                               
to  stand   up  against  federal   mandates  that   they  believe                                                               
compromise the security  and freedom of their  constituents.  She                                                               
said that she  urges Alaska to resist complying with  the REAL ID                                                               
Act.    She  expressed  her concern  with  the  data  warehousing                                                               
requirement of  the REAL  ID Act.   She said  she believes  it is                                                               
"madness" for the federal government  to force the state to spend                                                               
millions of  taxpayer dollars  to create  a "treasure  trove" for                                                               
identity thieves.   She referred to the challenge  and expense of                                                               
keeping  pace  with  the  technology  developed  by  hackers  and                                                               
thieves  when   maintaining  a  centralized  database,   and  she                                                               
referred to Alaska's  limited state resources.  She  said that it                                                               
is not a  question of if the  data will be breached  but when and                                                               
with what consequence.                                                                                                          
SENATOR  BELLOWS offered  that Maine,  like Alaska,  has a  long,                                                               
proud  tradition of  standing  up for  the  fundamental right  to                                                               
privacy and has  been a leader in this regard,  because the right                                                               
to be left  alone is an inherent  part of what it means  to be an                                                               
American.   She asserted that  limiting federal intrusion  on the                                                               
private lives  of citizens  is fundamental to  the health  of the                                                               
country's democracy.  She maintained  that is unconscionable that                                                               
the  federal  government  is  threatening  to  ban  Alaskans  and                                                               
(indisc.) from  (indisc.) and  federal buildings  and facilities.                                                               
She claimed that it is  absolutely not true that current licenses                                                               
are not secure.                                                                                                                 
SENATOR BELLOWS  relayed that Maine passed  emergency legislation                                                               
to  fund the  issuance of  passport cards  to veterans  and other                                                               
personnel  needing to  access  military  and veteran  facilities.                                                               
She said  that there are  discussions in Maine  about potentially                                                               
funding  passport  cards  for  a  larger  portion  of  the  Maine                                                               
population, rather than  complying with the federal  REAL ID Act.                                                               
She  mentioned that  she  and her  fellow  senator, Senator  Eric                                                               
Brakey, authored a  letter to President Donald  Trump, which will                                                               
be  provided to  the committee,  urging him  to repeal  the anti-                                                               
privacy provisions  of the REAL ID  Act by executive order.   She                                                               
suggested  that Alaskan  legislators sign  on to  the letter  and                                                               
contemplate  alternatives   to  HB  74,  which   would  undermine                                                               
Alaskans' privacy and security.                                                                                                 
7:38:38 PM                                                                                                                    
TOM BRICE,  Alaska Laborers, explained  that the  Alaska Laborers                                                               
is composed of  three Alaskan-based unions:   Laborers Local 942;                                                               
Laborers 341 based  out of Anchorage; and  Public Employees Local                                                               
71.   He stated that  applying for  his passport required  him to                                                               
make two  trips to his  post office, ensure that  the application                                                               
was filled out in  black ink, make a few phone  calls to find out                                                               
where  his parents  were born,  obtain  an original  copy of  his                                                               
birth  certificate,  and   secure  additional  identification  to                                                               
accompany the application.   He said he concluded  that getting a                                                               
passport  is not  as easy  as  it appears.   He  relayed that  he                                                               
applied for  the passport  card and the  passport; the  card cost                                                               
$50 and the  passport application cost $25.  He  added that there                                                               
is a six week  wait for the documents.  He  said that for another                                                               
$250,  he  could  have  the  process expedited.    He  urged  the                                                               
committee to move both HB 74 and  HJR 15 out of committee and not                                                               
leave  Alaskans "in  limbo" for  accessing work  and travel.   He                                                               
said that the  proposed legislation is optional,  and if Congress                                                               
overturns  the   REAL  ID  Act,   that  will  take  time   to  be                                                               
MR. BRICE relayed  that a number of the bargaining  units that he                                                               
represents  are responsible  for school  maintenance on  military                                                               
bases.   He said that  these positions  are entry level,  and the                                                               
cost  of  a  passport  for  these workers  is  significant.    He                                                               
expressed his understanding  that if HB 74 is  passed, Alaska may                                                               
be  able to  get an  extension  to give  people time  to get  the                                                               
required  IDs, and  the  federal government  may  repeal the  Act                                                               
during that time.                                                                                                               
REPRESENTATIVE TUCK  referred to  Senator Bellow's letter  to the                                                               
President asking him  to take executive action.  He  asked if the                                                               
Alaska Laborers would be willing also to write a letter.                                                                        
MR. BRICE said that he is not  prepared to speak in behalf of his                                                               
organization in that  regard but would let the members  know.  He                                                               
added that with the short timeline,  he doubts if the response of                                                               
the federal government would be timely.                                                                                         
7:44:30 PM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE KNOPP asked  Mr. Brice if he would  support HB 74,                                                               
if he did not represent the union membership.                                                                                   
MR. BRICE  said, "As an option,  yes."  He said  that without the                                                               
option,  he would  be  more  hesitant.   He  gave  an example  of                                                               
getting  a  background  check  for gun  ownership;  he  does  not                                                               
appreciate  it and  finds  it frustrating.    He reiterated  that                                                               
information on him is readily available from the Internet.                                                                      
7:46:18 PM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE  LEDOUX  asked  how  many people  in  Alaska  need                                                               
access to a military base for work.                                                                                             
MR. BRICE answered  that he guesses about 100-150  workers in his                                                               
bargaining unit and  another 100 in another union.   He mentioned                                                               
that   this  number   only  refers   to   service  workers,   not                                                               
construction workers.                                                                                                           
REPRESENTATIVE  LEDOUX maintained  that her  concern is  the $1.5                                                               
million fiscal note and the cost per person above that.                                                                         
MR. BRICE stated that another  aspect of the proposed legislation                                                               
is the complexity  of getting a REAL ID versus  going through the                                                               
passport process.   He reiterated  that the  passport application                                                               
is  daunting,  and   the  process  for  getting   a  passport  is                                                               
REPRESENTATIVE  LEDOUX suggested  that going  to the  post office                                                               
and going to DMV are equally unpleasant.                                                                                        
7:48:55 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR KREISS-TOMKINS,  after ascertaining  that there was  no one                                                               
else who wished to testify, closed public testimony on HB 74.                                                                   
CHAIR KREISS-TOMKINS announced that HB 74 was held over.                                                                        

Document Name Date/Time Subjects
HJR 015 - Additional Document - CS for HJR 19 25th Leg - 3.14.2017 (1).PDF HSTA 3/21/2017 5:30:00 PM
HJR 15
HJR 015 - Additional Document - HJR019 Endorsed 25thLeg - 3.14.2017.PDF HSTA 3/21/2017 5:30:00 PM
HJR 15
HJR 015 - Additional Document - REAL ID Act - 3.14.2017.pdf HSTA 3/21/2017 5:30:00 PM
HJR 15
HJR 015 - Additional Documents - DHS - 3.14.2017 (1).pdf HSTA 3/21/2017 5:30:00 PM
HJR 15
HJR 015 - Additional Documents - DHS - 3.14.2017.pdf HSTA 3/21/2017 5:30:00 PM
HJR 15
HJR 015 - Additional Documents - DHS2 - 3.14.2017 (1).pdf HSTA 3/21/2017 5:30:00 PM
HJR 15
HJR 015 - Additional Documents - DHS3 - 3.14.2017.pdf HSTA 3/21/2017 5:30:00 PM
HJR 15
HJR 015 - Supporting Document - Support Letters - 3.17.2017.pdf HSTA 3/21/2017 5:30:00 PM
HJR 15
HJR 015 - Additional Document - Pages of DOA Presentation 2.23.2017 - 3.14.2017.pdf HSTA 3/21/2017 5:30:00 PM
HJR 15
HJR 015 - Sponsor Statement - 3.14.2017.pdf HSTA 3/21/2017 5:30:00 PM
HJR 15
SCR 2 Fiscal Note LAA 3.9.17.pdf HHSS 4/6/2017 3:00:00 PM
HSTA 3/21/2017 5:30:00 PM
SCR 2 Version A 3.9.17.pdf HSTA 3/21/2017 5:30:00 PM
SCR 2 Hearing Request 3.9.17.pdf HSTA 3/21/2017 5:30:00 PM
SCR 2 Sponsor Statement A 3.9.17.pdf HSTA 3/21/2017 5:30:00 PM
SCR 2 Support Materials Letter of Support ANDVSA 3.9.17.pdf HSTA 3/21/2017 5:30:00 PM
SCR 2 Support Materials Alaska Dispatch News 3.9.17.pdf HSTA 3/21/2017 5:30:00 PM
SCR 2 Support Materials CDC National Intimate Partner and Sexual Violence Survey 3.9.17.pdf HSTA 3/21/2017 5:30:00 PM
SCR 2 Support Materials Key Results from the 2015 Alaska Victimization Survey 3.9.17.pdf HSTA 3/21/2017 5:30:00 PM
HB074 Letters of Opposition 3.18.17.docx HSTA 3/21/2017 5:30:00 PM
HB 74
HB074 Draft Proposed Amendment A.1 3.20.17.pdf HSTA 3/21/2017 5:30:00 PM
HB 74
HB074 Letter of Support Delta Airlines 3.20.17.PDF HSTA 3/21/2017 5:30:00 PM
HB 74
HB074 ACLU Letter Re SS Numbers 3.20.17.pdf HSTA 3/21/2017 5:30:00 PM
HB 74
HJR 015 - Additional Document - DHS4 - 3.21.2017.pdf HSTA 3/21/2017 5:30:00 PM
HJR 15
HJR015 Fiscal Note 3.21.17.pdf HSTA 3/21/2017 5:30:00 PM
HJR 15