Legislature(2005 - 2006)CAPITOL 106

04/04/2006 08:00 AM STATE AFFAIRS


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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
*+ HB 496 CONTRIBUTIONS FROM PERM. FUND DIVIDENDS TELECONFERENCED
Moved CSHB 496(STA) Out of Committee
+= HB 461 LEGISLATIVE DISCLOSURES TELECONFERENCED
Heard & Held
+= HB 290 REQUIREMENTS FOR DRIVER'S LICENSE/I.D. TELECONFERENCED
Heard & Held
+= HB 438 INITIATIVE, REFERENDUM, RECALL PETITIONS TELECONFERENCED
Scheduled But Not Heard
+ Bills Previously Heard/Scheduled TELECONFERENCED
HB 290-REQUIREMENTS FOR DRIVER'S LICENSE/I.D.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
8:34:37 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEATON announced that the  next order of business was HOUSE                                                               
BILL  NO. 290,  "An Act  relating to  issuance of  identification                                                               
cards and to issuance of driver's licenses."                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
8:36:02 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  LYNN, as  sponsor, reviewed  that the  bill would                                                               
require a  person to have a  legal presence in the  U.S. in order                                                               
to  be issued  an Alaska  driver's license.   He  stated that  he                                                               
would hate to see the bill complicated with several amendments.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
8:36:58 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MATTHEW KERR testified  on behalf of himself in  opposition to HB
290.  He paraphrased from  his written testimony [included in the                                                               
committee packet],  which read  as follows  [original punctuation                                                               
provided]:                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
      Good morning once again, Mr. Chairman and Committee                                                                       
     Members!                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
     Thank  you for  having me  here. This  process has  all                                                                    
     been very educational. I've been  thinking that maybe I                                                                    
     should quit my day job!                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     I'm sure all of you are  aware of my opposition to this                                                                    
     bill.  I've done  a lot  of  research in  the past  few                                                                    
     weeks, and so  I'm not here just to  repeat my previous                                                                    
     testimony. I hope  it will be as interesting  to you as                                                                    
     it was for me to write it.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     Before  I start,  I want  to give  a fuller  disclosure                                                                    
     about why  I've chosen  to oppose this  bill. I  am not                                                                    
     for  illegal  immigration, and  I  do  in fact  support                                                                    
     criminally charging  employers who hire  illegal labor,                                                                    
     and  removing  illegal  immigrants in  most  situations                                                                    
     when  they  are  discovered.  I am  friends  with  some                                                                    
     legally-present  foreign students,  but that  has given                                                                    
     me far  more insight  than bias.  The reasons  I oppose                                                                    
     this bill are actually much more selfish.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
8:39:47 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     This bill  does not  discourage illegal  immigration or                                                                    
     terrorism. It targets  the wrong people, and  it is not                                                                    
     enforceable.  In  reality,   passing  this  bill  would                                                                    
     actually  decrease our  public safety.  I will  explain                                                                    
     these reasons to you.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     This bill  does not  discourage illegal  immigration. I                                                                    
     cannot  imagine  that  people intending  to  stay  here                                                                    
     illegally  would present  themselves to  the DMV  for a                                                                    
     license in  the first  place. Even  if they  did, early                                                                    
     expiration   of  their   driver's  license   would  not                                                                    
     realistically   cause  them   to  leave.   California's                                                                    
     current  illegal population  is  prima  facie proof  of                                                                    
     this.  They  are  not starved  for  identification,  as                                                                    
     passports  and foreign  licenses  are completely  valid                                                                    
     documents used for driving, flying,  buying a beer, and                                                                    
     opening a bank account.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     This  bill does  not discourage  terrorism. Fifteen  of                                                                    
     the  nineteen hijackers  were legally  present on  Sept                                                                    
     11.  If  those  last  four hadn't  had  their  driver's                                                                    
     licenses,  they  would  have used  their  passports  to                                                                    
     board their flights. Also, more  acts of terrorism have                                                                    
     been  committed in  this country  by American  citizens                                                                    
     than  by   foreigners.  Remember  Ted   Kaczynski  (the                                                                    
     Unabomber),   David  Koresh,   Timothy  McVeigh,   some                                                                    
     members  of  PETA,  the Animal  Liberation  Front,  the                                                                    
     Earth Liberation Front, etc.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     In  the  Senate   Finance  Committee,  Senator  Huggins                                                                    
     recalled the recent sad  events involving Mohammed Reza                                                                    
     Taheri-Azar, the UNC graduate  who drove his rental car                                                                    
     into a  group of  students "to  avenge Muslims,"  as an                                                                    
     example  of   terrorism  that  this  bill   could  have                                                                    
     prevented. This  man immigrated  to the  US in  1985 as                                                                    
     was either a  permanent resident or a  U.S. citizen. He                                                                    
     was kicked out of his  fraternity due to excessive drug                                                                    
     and  alcohol use.  His problems  are related  to mental                                                                    
     illness; not his nationality  or immigration status. He                                                                    
     would  not have  been affected  by this  legislation in                                                                    
     any way.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
     This brings us to my  next point. This bill targets the                                                                    
     wrong people.  By far, our  largest group  of long-term                                                                    
     non-immigrant  visitors is  foreign students.  They are                                                                    
     the  ones  that will  be  subject  to repeated,  annual                                                                    
     license   renewals.  Foreign   students  are   a  major                                                                    
     presence in the US at  the graduate level in the fields                                                                    
     of math,  engineering, and science. They  are typically                                                                    
     the cream  of the crop  from their home  countries, and                                                                    
     it  gets  even  better.  They're paying  full  price  -                                                                    
     subsidizing tuition  rates for our students!  - because                                                                    
     they  are   not  usually  eligible   for  scholarships,                                                                    
     financial  aid, or  resident  tuition pricing.  Foreign                                                                    
     students generate $13 billion  in yearly revenue in the                                                                    
     US. They  are the model of  the kind of person  we want                                                                    
     immigrating to our country (legally, of course).                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     Unfortunately,  the extra  paperwork and  processing at                                                                    
     the national  level has  already caused  these students                                                                    
     to  study  elsewhere.  Berkeley had  950  international                                                                    
     graduate students in 1999, and  425 - less than half! -                                                                    
     by  2005. Last  April,  Bill Gates  announced during  a                                                                    
     Library of  Congress forum  that Microsoft  is shifting                                                                    
     more  work  overseas  as  a   direct  result  of  fewer                                                                    
     foreigners  studying and  staying  in the  US. I  agree                                                                    
     with  valid security  measures to  keep out  terrorists                                                                    
     during the visa process,  but this bill doesn't prevent                                                                    
     terrorism. There  is already a federal  computer system                                                                    
     named  "SEVIS"   to  monitor  the  status   of  foreign                                                                    
     students in the  US. It would certainly turn  me off of                                                                    
     a  new country  if I  got to  spend the  night in  jail                                                                    
     because I  overlooked my annual license  renewal during                                                                    
     finals week.  Forcing foreign  students to  renew their                                                                    
     driver's license  annually does not make  me any safer,                                                                    
     but it  does add  another bureaucratic hoop  that might                                                                    
     make a student decide to go somewhere more tolerant.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     This bill is  not enforceable. I am  holding a passport                                                                    
     of a legally-present foreign  student. Inside, there is                                                                    
     no  US  visa.  This  country, like  many  others,  only                                                                    
     issues  passports  for five  years,  so  it had  to  be                                                                    
     renewed  while the  student was  already  here. The  US                                                                    
     does not issue visas  domestically. This piece of paper                                                                    
     is the form  that makes the student  legally present in                                                                    
     the US. It  is hardly a tamper-proof  document. It's no                                                                    
     surprise that our immigration law  is very complex, and                                                                    
     many,   many   different   types   of   documents   and                                                                    
     combinations thereof can prove  legal status. When this                                                                    
     student  recently   re-entered  the  US,   the  federal                                                                    
     immigration officer had  to scratch her head  for a few                                                                    
     minutes  to  recall  the  rules  before  approving  the                                                                    
     entry. I  don't believe  that the DMV  will be  as well                                                                    
     equipped  to  make  that  determination.  Imagine  that                                                                    
     scenario at the DMV in your mind.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     So far,  I've told you  about what this bill  won't do.                                                                    
     What this bill  will do is reduce public  safety on our                                                                    
     roads.   This  reasoning   applies  to   all  long-term                                                                    
     foreigners and  not just students.  How many  people in                                                                    
     the  US   have  been  killed  or   injured  by  illegal                                                                    
     immigrants or acts  of terrorism?  How  many people are                                                                    
     killed or injured  on our roads each day  due to unsafe                                                                    
     driving and uninsured drivers?   The primary fallacy of                                                                    
     this  bill is  that  it assumes  that  people can  only                                                                    
     drive here  legally with  a domestic  driver's license.                                                                    
     The  standard operating  procedure to  get licensed  in                                                                    
     Moscow involves handing  a nice, crisp $50  bill to the                                                                    
     test  examiner.  You  can see  this  in  their  traffic                                                                    
     fatality  rates.   We  would   all  love   for  illegal                                                                    
     immigration to  disappear overnight.  But realistically                                                                    
     speaking, would you rather be  driving on the road next                                                                    
     to  an  illegal  immigrant   with  an  Alaska  driver's                                                                    
     license  and driving  record, or  an illegal  immigrant                                                                    
     without either?                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
8:42:59 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     I have  one last piece  of research on that  topic. The                                                                    
     DMV official who testified in  this committee last time                                                                    
     said  that  it  was possible  for  foreign-licensed  or                                                                    
     unlicensed  drivers to  obtain  liability insurance.  I                                                                    
     called Geico, State Farm, Allstate,  and AIG. I had one                                                                    
     "No,"  two "I  don't  think so;  call  later," and  one                                                                    
     "Only for 30 days." For  all intents and purposes, that                                                                    
     effectively  means that  an illegal  immigrant with  an                                                                    
     expired license  would not be able  to obtain liability                                                                    
     insurance. For those reasons,  this bill would decrease                                                                    
     public safety.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     Currently, our  DMV checks  for legal  entry to  the US                                                                    
     when a  foreigner applies for  a license, and  they are                                                                    
     treated the same way as  everyone else thereafter. This                                                                    
     system works fine.  It's a good balance  and it doesn't                                                                    
     need to be changed.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     This legislation adds some bureaucracy  at the DMV with                                                                    
     the  laudable goal  of  preventing illegal  immigration                                                                    
     and/or terrorism. Unfortunately,  it effectively trades                                                                    
     away  a small  piece of  our safety  without preventing                                                                    
     either.  It  is  not  enforceable.  It  makes  it  more                                                                    
     difficult  for  people   that  are  legitimately  here,                                                                    
     without  adding any  actual  deterrent  to someone  who                                                                    
     isn't. I  won't even bring  up again the  data security                                                                    
     issues indirectly caused by this bill.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     Thank you  again, Mr.  Chairman and  committee members,                                                                    
     for  your consideration  of  my  testimony. I  provided                                                                    
     some of your offices  with supporting documentation for                                                                    
     my  earlier testimony,  and I  have  some spare  copies                                                                    
     with me today if any of you are interested.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
8:44:03 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     One last item: The New  Hampshire bill against the Real                                                                    
     ID Act  has passed  their House with  a vote  of 270-84                                                                    
     and is now going through their Senate committees.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     I ask  all of you  again to  vote against this  bill. I                                                                    
     would be happy to answer any questions.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
8:44:15 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE LYNN asked  Mr. Kerr if, through  his research, he                                                               
has been able  to ascertain if any one  could immigrate illegally                                                               
to Canada or Mexico and be able to get a driver's license there.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
8:45:00 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  KERR  responded that  it  would  not  be difficult  to  live                                                               
illegally  in  Canada  or  Mexico, because  a  person  could  use                                                               
his/her domestic licenses and passports  and would not be subject                                                               
to many  immigration checks.   As for  other countries,  Mr. Kerr                                                               
said he does not know the  licensing requirements, but he said he                                                               
is aware anecdotally of an  American citizen spending an extended                                                               
time in Russia who obtained a license there.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
8:45:28 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  LYNN specified,  "If  I  illegally immigrated  to                                                               
Mexico, would I be able to get a Mexican driver's license?"                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
8:45:54 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. KERR  answered that  corruption is a  major issue  in Mexico,                                                               
and he speculated that if  someone were to present him/herself at                                                               
the Mexican  department of motor vehicles,  he/she would probably                                                               
not have any trouble obtaining  a driver's license, regardless of                                                               
immigration status.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
8:46:22 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  SEATON  said he  thinks  the  witness  is being  asked  to                                                               
speculate beyond the scope of his research.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
8:47:24 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. KERR,  in response to  a question from  Representative Gatto,                                                               
said the passport  he brought with him is a  current passport for                                                               
a foreign student legally present in  the U.S., and it was issued                                                               
within the U.S. by the foreign embassy of the student's country.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
8:47:51 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GATTO asked Mr. Kerr  if he knows the reasons that                                                               
New Hampshire voted down a similar bill.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
8:48:23 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. KERR replied that New  Hampshire was voting against a broader                                                               
bill that  encapsulated other parts  of the federal Real  ID Act,                                                               
including the gathering of  licensing information into nationally                                                               
accessible databases.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
8:49:08 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  SEATON recalled  that  Mr. Bannock,  the  director of  the                                                               
Division  of  Motor  Vehicles,  had  testified  during  the  last                                                               
hearing of HB 290 that the  division is planning to scan, verify,                                                               
and archive  information from the  documents that  people present                                                               
for identification when applying for a license.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
8:49:21 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE LYNN said he remembers the same.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
8:49:35 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  KERR indicated  that he  had just  received a  document that                                                               
addresses  the  "nonidentification  [driving] certificate."    He                                                               
said,  "It seems  to me  like  it could  be a  reasonable way  of                                                               
solving  the  problem,  although  I haven't  looked  into  it  in                                                               
depth."                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
8:49:59 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GATTO related  that he  knows a  foreign exchange                                                               
student  from Norway  who got  a  driver's license  in the  U.S.,                                                               
because it  was so much  less expensive  than getting one  in her                                                               
country, and it  would be valid in her country.   He asked, "Does                                                               
that compromise  the Real ID [Act],  the fact that ...  it was so                                                               
easy for her to get a driver's license in this country?"                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
8:51:17 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEATON told Mr.  Kerr that he does not want  him to feel he                                                               
has to testify beyond the area of his research or expertise.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
8:51:21 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  KERR  responded  by  saying  he  believes  it  typically  is                                                               
standard that  driver's licenses are based  on "usual residence,"                                                               
irrespective  of  citizenship.   He  stated,  "Because a  foreign                                                               
license  is  ...  valid  in  most  other  countries  up  to  some                                                               
specified  time,  ...  this effectively  means  that  if  someone                                                               
wanted to  drive legally in the  U.S., ... they could  ... easily                                                               
use their  home license  effectively, indefinitely,  because it's                                                               
not marked on  your license exactly when you  enter the country."                                                               
He added,  "Also, it would  be possible  for someone to  obtain a                                                               
license  in  any  number  of   third  countries  that  have  less                                                               
stringent procedures than ours."                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
8:52:53 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
JAMES  McCURTY, testifying  on behalf  of himself,  addressed the                                                               
bill's proposed language related  to identification that would be                                                               
required  to obtain  a  commercial license.    He indicated  that                                                               
there would be much time  involved and inconvenience for a person                                                               
to  prove that  he/she  is  a U.S.  citizen.    He mentioned  the                                                               
original  Patriot   Act.    Mr.  McCurty   stated,  "The  federal                                                               
government has  not done their  job.   It's been pushed  onto the                                                               
state, and  then you're just  trying to dump  it into my  lap, to                                                               
reaffirm that I'm an American, and a loyal American."                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
8:58:58 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEATON,  after ascertaining that  there was no one  else to                                                               
testify, closed public testimony.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
9:00:10 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
DUANE BANNOCK,  Director, Division of Motor  Vehicles, Department                                                               
of Administration, in response to  a question from Representative                                                               
Gruenberg, confirmed that the current fiscal note is accurate.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
9:00:35 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG referred  to an article in  The New York                                                             
Times,  dated  July  19,  2005,   from  the  National  Governors'                                                             
Conference  [included in  the  committee packet].    He said  the                                                               
article shows that various governors  are concerned that the Real                                                               
ID Act will have significant  negative economical impact on state                                                               
governments, will  take considerable  time to implement,  and was                                                               
"poorly thought  through."  He asked  Mr. Bannock if he  is aware                                                               
of those  concerns and, if so,  why he has not  addressed them in                                                               
his fiscal note.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
9:02:10 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  BANNOCK  explained  that the  concerns  that  Representative                                                               
Gruenberg highlighted  have to do  with the Real ID  Act, whereas                                                               
his fiscal note relates solely to  HB 290.  He directed attention                                                               
to the  last line  in the  analysis section  of the  fiscal note,                                                               
which read:  "Other costs may  be associated with the Real ID Act                                                               
that will  not be noted  until later."   He said his  own opinion                                                               
mirrors  that  of  49  other  DMV directors,  and  that  is  that                                                               
regulations are not sufficient "in  order to be compliant in this                                                               
section with this Real ID Act";  statutes are necessary.  He said                                                               
what is being made law is  already current DMV practice.  He said                                                               
the bill  would also allow  the DMV to  affix an expiration  on a                                                               
license  for a  legal alien  to match  the end  of that  person's                                                               
legal  stay in  the U.S.   Currently,  all driver's  licenses and                                                               
identification  cards issued  by  the DMV  expire  "on the  fifth                                                               
following birthday after issuance."                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
9:05:50 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. BANNOCK,  in response to  Representative Gruenberg  and Chair                                                               
Seaton, said the regulations to  which he previously alluded are:                                                               
13 AAC  08.330.  He said  the regulations have been  around for a                                                               
while.  He stated, "If a  person is in America legally, they will                                                               
have documents as required by that regulation today."                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
9:07:01 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEATON  said he is  concerned about requiring DMV  staff to                                                               
determine the validity of  documents without sufficient training.                                                               
He asked if  Mr. Bannock is saying that the  DMV staff is already                                                               
conducting those checks.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. BANNOCK answered yes.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
9:08:11 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  BANNOCK,  in  response   to  questions  from  Representative                                                               
Gruenberg,  said  the  DMV, by  regulation,  is  already  denying                                                               
licenses to illegal aliens, and  the statutory authority for that                                                               
regulation is, he guessed, AS 28.15.221.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
9:09:05 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GRUENBERG  said  he  is not  aware  of  any  such                                                               
statute and,  thus, is  wondering if either  the DMV's  policy or                                                               
regulation exceeds its statutory authority.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
9:09:28 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GARDNER  asked Mr.  Bannock  to  tell her,  under                                                               
current policy and  practice, what the function and  purpose of a                                                               
driver's license is.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
9:09:45 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. BANNOCK said  having a driver's license proves  that a person                                                               
has both the knowledge and the skill to operate an automobile.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
9:10:29 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  LYNN  stated  his  understanding  that  having  a                                                               
driver's license is a privilege, not a right.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. BANNOCK said [the DMV] subscribes to the same concept.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
9:11:02 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG said he had  looked up AS 28.15.221, and                                                               
it addresses the point system.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. BANNOCK  corrected his  previous estimation  to say  that the                                                               
statute is actually [AS 28.15.061].                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
9:11:20 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG  asked Mr.  Bannock to specify  where in                                                               
the statute  it gives authority  to the  DMV to deny  licenses to                                                               
illegal aliens.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
9:11:34 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. BANNOCK answered (b)(5), which read as follows:                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
       (5) contain other information that the department                                                                        
      may reasonably require to determine the applicant's                                                                       
     identity, competency, and eligibility.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
9:11:59 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GRUENBERG  opined  that  none  of  the  terms  in                                                               
paragraph (5) give the DMV the aforementioned legal authority.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
9:12:32 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. BANNOCK said  that by regulation, if an  illegal alien showed                                                               
up at  the DMV, he/she would  not have the document  that the DMV                                                               
has  the authority  to use  by regulation  in order  to establish                                                               
his/her identity.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  SEATON said  the committee  will ask  for a  legal opinion                                                               
from the Department of Law.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
9:13:17 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GATTO asked  if there is anything  beyond taking a                                                               
written test and a driving test  that a person must do to qualify                                                               
to receive a driver's license.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
9:13:36 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. BANNOCK  answered that  it is also  necessary to  verify both                                                               
the  person's age  and identity.    Some states  use high  school                                                               
yearbook photos,  for example, a  practice that Mr.  Bannock said                                                               
the Alaska DMV has no intention  of adopting.  An application for                                                               
a driver's  license must  contain the  licensee's name,  date and                                                               
place of  birth, and  both mailing and  residence addresses.   He                                                               
said,  "So,   before  we   issue  the   license  based   on  that                                                               
information, is it  reasonable to suggest that we  have some sort                                                               
of verification of  that before we issue the license?   I suggest                                                               
that, yes, we do."                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
9:14:54 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GATTO related  that  his son  had  applied for  a                                                               
license  using   his  student   identification  to   support  his                                                               
identity.   He indicated that he  was with his son  at the school                                                               
at the time  and merely verified verbally his  son's identity and                                                               
date of birth.  He questioned  the DMV using something that seems                                                               
so "flimsy" for its verification.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
9:16:04 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. BANNOCK deferred the question  to Kerry Hennings, the manager                                                               
of DMV's Driver Licensing.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
9:16:18 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
KERRY HENNINGS, Driver Licensing,  Director's Office, Division of                                                               
Motor   Vehicles  (DMV),   Department  of   Administration,  told                                                               
Representative Gatto  that in  lieu of  a birth  certificate, DMV                                                               
accepts  a  parent's  affidavit  and  identification,  which  she                                                               
surmised is  what Representative  Gatto offered during  his son's                                                               
application  for his  school  ID.   In response  to  a remark  by                                                               
Representative Gatto,  she indicated that this  manner of issuing                                                               
an ID is  not common, but is  an exception for people  who do not                                                               
have  their  birth  certificate  but  are  accompanied  by  their                                                               
parents.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GATTO  offered more  details regarding  that visit                                                               
with his son.   He explained that he wants to  ferret out ways to                                                               
cheat the system, because if there is a way, someone will.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
9:18:37 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS.  HENNINGS,  not  having been  present  during  Representative                                                               
Gatto's  experience   with  his   son,  surmised  that   all  the                                                               
information  that Representative  Gatto  brought  with him  would                                                               
have been considered.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
9:19:00 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  SEATON  referred to  a  handout  in the  committee  packet                                                               
showing "13  AAC 08.330 Requirements  of applicant."  One  of the                                                               
methods currently accepted  as proof of date of birth  is an out-                                                               
of-state driver's license.   He asked Ms. Hennings  if that would                                                               
change.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MS. HENNINGS said the DMV  has written new regulations it expects                                                               
to be adopted  during summer of 2006, at which  point the out-of-                                                               
state  driver's   license  will  not   be  used  as  a   form  of                                                               
identification,  but only  will  be  used to  show  proof of  the                                                               
knowledge and skills to operate an automobile.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
9:20:06 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEATON noted  other items listed under  13 AAC 08.330(b)(4)                                                               
that he  thought may  no longer  be accepted  should the  bill be                                                               
adopted:   a  credit card,  a  life insurance  policy, or  "other                                                               
evidence  of  comparable  validity."    He  said  he  presumes  a                                                               
parent's affidavit would also be excluded.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MS. HENNINGS said Chair Seaton is correct.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  SEATON asked,  "If this  bill  becomes law,  what are  the                                                               
single pieces  of documentation  that you can  use to  prove U.S.                                                               
citizenship before you can get an Alaska driver's license?"                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
9:20:58 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. HENNINGS said  she doesn't currently have a draft  of the new                                                               
regulations before  her; however, she  said she would get  a list                                                               
to the  committee.   That list includes:  a birth  certificate, a                                                               
passport, and proof of birth abroad.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
9:21:40 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG  asked Mr.  Bannock if  he can  point to                                                               
any authority for the DMV to  eliminate the ability of an illegal                                                               
alien to get a driver's license.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
9:22:34 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  BANNOCK  responded that  he  does  not  have an  answer  for                                                               
Representative Gruenberg without researching the issue.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEATON asked  Mr. Bannock to do that research  and get back                                                               
to the committee with it.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
9:23:20 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.   BANNOCK,   in   response  to   follow-up   questions   from                                                               
Representative Gruenberg,  said he  has not changed  policy since                                                               
taking on  the position  of director  of the  DMV, and  there was                                                               
written  policy   in  effect  when  he   became  director,  which                                                               
established [denying driver's licenses to illegal aliens].                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
9:23:45 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEATON  asked Mr. Bannock  to send that information  to the                                                               
committee, as well.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
9:25:20 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  BANNOCK,  in  response   to  questions  from  Representative                                                               
Gardner, said  a person from Canada  who did not have  a Canadian                                                               
driver's license could,  with a passport and  one other secondary                                                               
piece of  identification take  both the  written and  skills test                                                               
and be  issued an Alaska driver's  license.  He said  this method                                                               
is particular  to Canada  only.  Someone  from any  other country                                                               
outside the U.S. who did not have  a visa and was in the U.S. for                                                               
a  short visit  probably  would not  be able  to  qualify for  an                                                               
Alaska driver's license.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
9:26:08 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GARDNER  noted that  there  are  people who  have                                                               
social security cards that are  stamped valid for employment with                                                               
INS  authorization only.    She  asked Mr.  Bannock,  "Is that  a                                                               
document that you would accept  for purposes of identification in                                                               
issuing a driver's license?"                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
9:26:23 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  BANNOCK said,  "We have  defined our  list into  primary and                                                               
secondary.   You will be forwarded  a copy of that  list.  Social                                                               
security ...  cards are considered  a secondary item,  and [yes],                                                               
it would be accepted."                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
9:26:45 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  LYNN remarked  the committee  is considering  the                                                               
merits and possible demerits of HB  290; the DMV is not on trial.                                                               
Second,  he stated  that  the issue  is simple  and  a matter  of                                                               
common sense:  "Either we comply with  the ... Real ID Act, or we                                                               
do not, whether we like that Act  or not.  ... In addition, we're                                                               
either present legally in the  U.S. and, by extension, Alaska, or                                                               
not.   And if we're  not here legally, we  don't have a  right to                                                               
... any privilege - driver's license or anything else."                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
9:27:31 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEATON requested that a  committee member offer Amendment 1                                                               
so that it is available for the public's perusal.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
9:27:43 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG moved to  adopt Amendment 1, labeled 24-                                                               
LS0981\Y.2, Luckhaupt/Cook, 4/3/06, which read as follows:                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     Page 1, line 5:                                                                                                            
          Delete "not"                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     Page 1, line 6:                                                                                                            
          Delete "not"                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     Page 1, line 10:                                                                                                           
          Delete all material.                                                                                                  
          Insert "(i) The department may issue an"                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
     Page 2, following line 8:                                                                                                  
     Insert a new subsection to read:                                                                                           
          "(j)  The department may issue an identification                                                                      
     card under  (a) of  this section to  a person  who does                                                                    
     not present  documentary evidence  under (h) or  (i) of                                                                    
     this   section.  The   identification   card  must   be                                                                    
     different in color  from those issued under  (h) or (i)                                                                    
     of  this  section  and  must   bear  on  its  face  the                                                                    
     following notice: "This identification  card may not be                                                                    
     accepted   by   any    federal   agency   for   federal                                                                    
     identification or any other official purpose.""                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     Page 2, line 31:                                                                                                           
          Delete "(7) [OR (8)]"                                                                                             
          Insert "or                                                                                                            
               (7)  [(8)]"                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     Page 3, line 1:                                                                                                            
          Delete "; or"                                                                                                     
          Insert "."                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     Page 3, line 2, through page 4, line 1:                                                                                    
          Delete all material and insert:                                                                                       
        "*  Sec. 3.  AS 28.15  is amended  by  adding a  new                                                                
     section to read:                                                                                                           
          Sec. 28.15.033. Form of drivers' licenses. (a)                                                                      
     The department  shall issue, renew, or  reinstate to an                                                                    
     otherwise qualified person a  driver's license that may                                                                    
     be used  as identification by  a federal agency  if the                                                                    
     person  presents to  the  department valid  documentary                                                                    
     evidence that  the person  is a  citizen of  the United                                                                    
     States,  a  national  of the  United  States,  a  legal                                                                    
     permanent  resident   of  the   United  States,   or  a                                                                    
     conditional  resident alien  of  the  United States.  A                                                                    
     person who  is seeking a  renewal of, duplicate  of, or                                                                    
     change of legal  name on a license is  presumed to meet                                                                    
     the requirements of this subsection  if the license has                                                                    
     not expired  or been  cancelled, suspended,  or revoked                                                                    
     and  the   person  has   not  been   disqualified  from                                                                    
     obtaining  a  license.  If   the  department  has  been                                                                    
     notified  by  a  local, state,  or  federal  government                                                                    
     agency that the person  seeking a renewal of, duplicate                                                                    
     of,  or change  of legal  name on  a license  is not  a                                                                    
     citizen of the  United States or is not  legally in the                                                                    
     United States,  then the presumption available  in this                                                                    
     subsection  does  not  apply.  The  department  may  by                                                                    
     regulation specify what  is valid, documentary evidence                                                                    
     under this  subsection, except that the  department may                                                                    
     not specify  that a matricula  consular card  is valid,                                                                    
     documentary evidence.                                                                                                      
          (b)  The department shall issue, renew, or                                                                            
     reinstate to  an otherwise qualified person  a driver's                                                                    
     license  that  may  be  used  as  identification  by  a                                                                    
     federal   agency  if   the  person   presents  to   the                                                                    
     department  in person  valid,  documentary evidence  of                                                                    
     the person's  legal status and  presence in  the United                                                                    
     States. A  license issued under this  subsection may be                                                                    
     renewed  only  on  presentation of  valid,  documentary                                                                    
     evidence that the status by  which the person qualified                                                                    
     for the license has been  extended by the proper United                                                                    
     States  government authority.  A change  of name  for a                                                                    
     license issued  under this subsection may  be made only                                                                    
     on  presentation of  valid,  documentary evidence  that                                                                    
     the person's name  has been changed with  regard to the                                                                    
     status by  which the person qualified  for the license.                                                                    
     A  duplicate license  for a  license issued  under this                                                                    
     subsection  may  be  issued  only  on  presentation  of                                                                    
     valid,  documentary evidence  that the  person's status                                                                    
     by which  the person qualified for  the license remains                                                                    
     valid and  in effect. The department  may by regulation                                                                    
     specify what is valid,  documentary evidence under this                                                                    
     subsection, except that the  department may not specify                                                                    
     that a  matricula consular  card is  valid, documentary                                                                    
     evidence.                                                                                                                  
          (c)  The department shall issue, renew, or                                                                            
     reinstate a driver's license  to an otherwise qualified                                                                    
     person who does not  present documentary evidence under                                                                    
     (a)  or  (b)  of  this section.  The  license  must  be                                                                    
     different in color  from those issued under  (a) or (b)                                                                    
     of this section  and must clearly bear on  its face the                                                                    
     following  notice: "This  driver's license  may not  be                                                                    
     accepted   by   any    federal   agency   for   federal                                                                    
     identification or any other official purpose.""                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     Renumber the following bill sections accordingly.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     Page 4, line 9:                                                                                                            
          Delete "AS 28.15.031(b)(8)(B)"                                                                                        
     Insert "AS 28.15.033(b)"                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
9:28:10 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE LYNN AND CHAIR SEATON objected.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
9:28:19 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEATON announced that HB 290 was heard and held.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
                             DRAFT                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                

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