Legislature(2005 - 2006)CAPITOL 106

02/14/2006 08:00 AM STATE AFFAIRS


Download Mp3. <- Right click and save file as

* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+= HB 347 MOTOR VEHICLE INSURANCE & NOTICE TELECONFERENCED
Heard & Held
+= HB 238 PUBLIC EMPLOYEE/TEACHER RETIREMENT TELECONFERENCED
Scheduled But Not Heard
+= SB 186 EXECUTIVE BRANCH ETHICS TELECONFERENCED
Heard & Held
+ Bills Previously Heard/Scheduled TELECONFERENCED
HB 347-MOTOR VEHICLE INSURANCE & NOTICE                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
9:41:57 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEATON announced that the  last order of business was HOUSE                                                               
BILL  NO.  347,  "An  Act relating  to  mandatory  motor  vehicle                                                               
insurance,  license suspensions,  and notices  relating to  motor                                                               
vehicles and driver's licenses."                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
[Amendment 1, left  pending from the 1/31/06  House State Affairs                                                               
Standing Committee meeting, was  renamed and offered as Amendment                                                               
7.]                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
9:42:14 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE LES GARA, Alaska  State Legislature, as sponsor of                                                               
HB 347,  explained that  at the  last hearing  of the  bill there                                                               
were  some technical  changes  that both  the  committee and  the                                                               
director of the  Division of Motor Vehicles  had recommended, and                                                               
he  said those  changes  are stapled  together  in the  committee                                                               
packet as possible amendments.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GARDNER, in  response  to a  question from  Chair                                                               
Seaton, said she would be offering those amendments.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
9:42:45 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEATON  directed attention  to an  e-mail in  the committee                                                               
packet from Duane Bannock, Director, Division of Motor Vehicles.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
9:43:25 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GARDNER moved to adopt Amendment 1, as follows:                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     On page 2, line 2:                                                                                                         
          Following "department"                                                                                                
          Insert "Notwithstanding AS 28.05.121"                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
9:44:28 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEATON  asked if  there was any  objection to  Amendment 1.                                                               
There being none, it was so ordered.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
9:44:39 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GARDNER moved to adopt Amendment 2, [labeled "24-                                                                
LS1372\G.6, Luckhaupt, 2/1/06"], which read as follows:                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     Page 2, lines 3 - 4:                                                                                                       
          Delete "most current"                                                                                             
          Insert "most recently recorded"                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
9:45:13 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GATTO  objected.    He  said  the  most  recently                                                               
recorded  address  may  not  necessarily  be  the  most  current;                                                               
therefore he questioned the advantage of Amendment 2.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
9:46:06 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GARDNER suggested using  the phrase "most recently                                                               
provided" instead.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   GATTO  suggested   the  phrase   "most  recently                                                               
obtained".                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ELKINS  asked why the committee  doesn't leave the                                                               
language to read "most current".                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GATTO explained  that  a person  could say,  "You                                                               
know, that's my most current address,  but I'm leaving there in a                                                               
day.  Why don't you just send it to my Mom ...."                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
9:47:18 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEATON reminded the committee  that "we're not dealing with                                                               
someone's private  knowledge.  He  explained that the  address in                                                               
question would be obtained from  only three sources, [as shown on                                                               
page 2, lines 5-9, which read as follows:]                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
           (1) the address the department has for the                                                                       
     person;                                                                                                                
            (2) the address shown on the citation or                                                                        
     police report of the accident; and                                                                                     
           (3) the address provided to the Department                                                                       
       of Revenue in an application for a permanent fund                                                                    
     dividend.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEATON  said he wants  to know  the reason for  the request                                                               
for Amendment 2.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
9:47:42 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
J.  KEVIN BURCHFIELD,  Driver  Services  Supervisor, Division  of                                                               
Motor  Vehicles,  Department  of Administration,  testified  that                                                               
"most  recently  recorded"  is  preferred  so  that  the  address                                                           
obtained from the  accident report can be used.   He added, "That                                                               
is  the person  that  was in  the most  recent  contact with  the                                                               
individual."                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
9:48:07 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG  remarked that  from a  law perspective,                                                               
the word "recorded" usually refers to  a deed that is recorded by                                                               
the registrar of deeds.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
9:48:54 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GARA,  in response to Chair  Seaton, recalled that                                                               
the it  was the committee who  had a problem with  the term "most                                                           
current".   He said he  thinks that  term would work,  or perhaps                                                           
"most recently provided" would work.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
9:49:18 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. BURCHFIELD, in response  to Representative Gara's suggestion,                                                               
said "most recently provided" is acceptable.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
9:49:51 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GATTO  stated  his   preference  for  the  phrase                                                               
"including but  not limited to",  which includes the  three items                                                               
previously noted,  but "gives the  individual an ability  to seek                                                               
out any other one."                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
9:49:58 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEATON clarified  that the issue is that  currently the DMV                                                               
has to  send that notice  to the [address]  that it has  on file,                                                               
even if  the police report or  the Permanent Fund Division  has a                                                               
more current  address.  He stated,  "I mean, if we're  wanting to                                                               
go out and  say DMV is supposed  to go out on  an Internet search                                                               
for somebody's  address, ... we're  stepping far beyond  where we                                                               
are in this bill currently.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GARDNER, in  response  to Representative  Gatto's                                                               
recommendation,  suggested  that  if   the  language  said  "most                                                               
current but not  limited to", a person could say,  "But you could                                                               
have sent  it to all  of them and  you didn't, and  therefore you                                                               
didn't make efforts to reach me."   She warned that would open up                                                               
unnecessary problems.   She  stated her  preference for  the term                                                               
"most recently provided".                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
9:51:10 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GATTO maintained his  objection.  He remarked that                                                               
the "most  recently provided" [address]  could be a  couple years                                                           
old.                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
9:51:25 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  SEATON  responded  that someone  who  provide  the  police                                                               
officer with  an address that  is a  couple of years  old doesn't                                                               
want to get his/her notice from DMV.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
9:51:55 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  BURCHFIELD, in  response to  a question  from Representative                                                               
Gruenberg, said  the word  "recorded" is a  reference to  the way                                                               
that [the address]  is recorded on the accident report.   He said                                                               
it is probably a poor choice of words.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  SEATON,  in response  to  a  question from  Representative                                                               
Gruenberg, explained  again that the language  in question refers                                                               
to  the three  addresses [on  page  2, lines  5-9, text  provided                                                               
previously].                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
9:52:39 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG moved to  adopt Amendment 1 to Amendment                                                               
2,  to  change   "recorded"  to  "provided".     There  being  no                                                       
objection, Amendment 1 to Amendment 2 was adopted.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
9:53:17 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEATON  asked if  there was any  objection to  Amendment 2,                                                               
[as amended].  There being none, it was so ordered.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
9:53:31 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GARDNER moved to  adopt Amendment 3, [labeled "24-                                                               
LS1372\G.5, Luckhaupt, 2/1/06"], which read as follows:                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     Page 2, line 6:                                                                                                            
          Delete "citation or"                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
9:54:38 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  SEATON  offered   his  understanding  that  Representative                                                               
Gruenberg stated an objection [for discussion purposes].                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG asked Mr.  Burchfield, "If there happens                                                               
to be a citation, why couldn't they use that address?"                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
9:54:46 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  BURCHFIELD   responded,  "Because  the  Division   of  Motor                                                               
Vehicles does not receive the citations."                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
9:54:55 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG  removed his objection.   There being no                                                               
further objection to Amendment 3, it was so ordered.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
9:55:24 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GARDNER moved to  adopt Amendment 4, [labeled "24-                                                               
LS1372\G.4, Luckhaupt, 2/1/06], which read as follows:                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     Page 2, lines 7 - 9:                                                                                                       
          Delete all material.                                                                                                  
          Insert "accident."                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
9:56:49 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
DUANE BANNOCK,  Director, Division of Motor  Vehicles, Department                                                               
of Administration,  [in response  to some  committee discussion],                                                               
clarified for  the committee that  Amendment 4 "is  specific only                                                               
to the  Department of Revenue  as it pertains to  [the] permanent                                                               
fund  [dividend]."   He  said  DMV  asked  that the  language  be                                                               
removed  because [obtaining  addresses  from  the Permanent  Fund                                                               
Division] would be outside the field of DMV.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
9:57:21 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GARA, in  response  to Representative  Gruenberg,                                                               
said  he  would  leave  the  decision whether  or  not  to  adopt                                                               
Amendment 4  up to  the committee.   He  proffered that  the most                                                               
accurate  address will  be the  one on  the citation  or accident                                                               
report.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
9:58:00 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GARDNER   said  the  problem  in   including  the                                                               
language  [on page  2, lines  8-9, text  provided previously]  is                                                               
that it would require DMV to  take the additional step of looking                                                               
up the permanent fund dividend  application information, which is                                                               
really not the DMV's bailiwick.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
9:58:35 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  SEATON  objected  to  Amendment 4,  in  order  to  further                                                               
clarify the language.  He then removed his objection.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
9:59:22 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ELKINS objected.  He explained as follows:                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     Years  ago I  used to  buy dividends  - permanent  fund                                                                    
     dividends - and when they changed  the law, I had a lot                                                                    
     of money out  there that I couldn't get paid  for.  And                                                                    
     I had to  take those addresses, and  find those people,                                                                    
     and get  them to show  proof of birth, ...  because the                                                                    
     Department of Revenue had determined  that if they sold                                                                    
     their dividend they might not be  a real person.  And I                                                                    
     got to tell you - and it  was quite a bit of money, ...                                                                    
     so obviously  quite a few  people - [for]  every person                                                                    
     that I  had to contact the  address was true.   And so,                                                                    
     ... I  have a  little bit of  problem taking  that out,                                                                    
     because people don't  fool around -- I  mean, when they                                                                    
     put  their permanent  fund address  down, it's  usually                                                                    
     bedrock.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
10:00:19 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  SEATON   responded  that  he   understands  Representative                                                               
Elkins'  point of  view.   However,  he stated  that he  supports                                                               
Amendment 4 because he doesn't want  to burden DMV with having to                                                               
seek  out addresses  of people  who are  not giving  police their                                                               
most current address.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
10:01:18 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEATON  asked if  there was any  objection to  Amendment 4.                                                               
[Representative  Elkins'  objection  was  considered  withdrawn].                                                               
There being no further objections, Amendment 4 was adopted.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEATON referred to [page  2, lines 6-7], which [after being                                                               
previous amended by the adopted Amendments 3 and 4] read:                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
               (2) the address shown on the police report                                                                   
     of the accident.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEATON asked if that language is acceptable.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GARA  said he thinks  that DMV's position  is that                                                               
the report is called an accident report, not a police report.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
10:01:39 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEATON asked Mr. Bannock for his recommendation.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
10:02:47 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. BANNOCK  recommended that the  word "police" on page  2, line                                                               
6,  be  deleted  and  replaced  with the  word  "accident".    In                                                               
response to  a request  for clarification  from Chair  Seaton, he                                                               
amended  his  recommendation  to  simply  delete  "police",  thus                                                               
leaving:                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
           (2) the address shown on the report of the                                                                       
     accident.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
10:03:49 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GARDNER moved to adopt Amendment 5, as follows:                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     On page 2, line 6:                                                                                                         
          Delete "police"                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEATON  asked if  there was any  objection to  Amendment 5.                                                               
There being none, Amendment 5 was adopted.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
10:04:47 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GARDNER  moved to adopt Amendment  6, [labeled 24-                                                               
LS1372\G.7, Luckhaupt, 2/1/06], which read as follows:                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     Page 1, line 6, following "infraction":                                                                                    
          Insert "punishable by a fine not to exceed $300"                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG  objected for discussion  purposes, then                                                               
removed  his objection.   He  recalled that  when this  issue was                                                               
discussed in the  past, there was talk that  "infraction" is "not                                                               
defined in Title 28 anyway."                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
10:05:57 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GARA recollected  that the  discussion had  taken                                                               
place  to   address  Representative  Gruenberg's   concern  about                                                               
whether or  not "there  was a catch-all  fine amount  for driving                                                               
license violations."   He said,  "There is, but it  doesn't state                                                               
an amount."   He said  he wants "the $300  fine to apply  to this                                                               
violation."    He  said he  thinks  Representative    Gruenberg's                                                               
recommendation was to "come up with  a number and apply ... it to                                                               
all violations  at DMV."   He said  he does not  feel comfortable                                                               
coming up  with an  amount for the  other violations,  because he                                                               
doesn't  know what  they are  or what  the fines  should be.   He                                                               
concluded that  he thinks [Amendment  6] is the "cleanest  way to                                                               
do it."                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
10:06:32 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GRUENBERG  reiterated   that  his  objection  was                                                               
withdrawn.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
10:06:40 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  SEATON  asked  if  there  was  any  further  objection  to                                                               
Amendment 6.  There being none, Amendment 6 was adopted.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
10:06:59 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR   SEATON   moved   Amendment  7,   labeled   24-LS1372\G.2,                                                               
Luckhaupt, 1/27/06 [previously named  Amendment 1], which read as                                                               
follows:                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     Page 1, line 1, following "suspensions,":                                                                                
          Insert "penalties for operating a motor vehicle                                                                     
     while  license  is  canceled,  suspended,  revoked,  or                                                                  
     limited,  mandatory impoundments  of  vehicles used  in                                                                  
     certain offenses,"                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     Page 1, following line 6:                                                                                                  
     Insert a new bill section to read:                                                                                         
        "* Sec. 2. AS 28.15.291(b) is amended to read:                                                                      
          (b)  Upon conviction under (a) of this section,                                                                       
     the court                                                                                                                  
               (1)  shall impose a minimum sentence of                                                                          
     imprisonment                                                                                                               
               (A)  if the person has not been previously                                                                       
     convicted,  of  not less  than  10  days with  10  days                                                                    
     suspended,   including   a   mandatory   condition   of                                                                    
     probation that the defendant complete  not less than 80                                                                    
     hours of community work service;                                                                                           
               (B)  if the person has been previously                                                                           
     convicted, of not less than 10 days;                                                                                       
               (C)  if the person's driver's license,                                                                           
     privilege to  drive, or privilege  to obtain  a license                                                                    
     was   revoked   under    circumstances   described   in                                                                    
     AS 28.15.181(c)(1),  or if  the person  was driving  in                                                                    
     violation   of   a   limited   license   issued   under                                                                    
     AS 28.15.201(d) following that  revocation, of not less                                                                    
     than 20 days with 10 days  suspended, and a fine of not                                                                    
     less  than $500,  including  a  mandatory condition  of                                                                    
     probation that the defendant complete  not less than 80                                                                    
     hours of community work service;                                                                                           
               (D)  if the person's driver's license,                                                                           
     privilege to  drive, or privilege  to obtain  a license                                                                    
     was   revoked   under    circumstances   described   in                                                                    
     AS 28.15.181(c)(2), (3),  or (4)  or if the  person was                                                                    
     driving in violation of a  limited license issued under                                                                    
     AS 28.15.201(d) following that  revocation, of not less                                                                    
     than 30 days and a fine of not less than $1,000;                                                                           
               (2)  may impose additional conditions of                                                                         
     probation;                                                                                                                 
               (3)  may not                                                                                                     
               (A)  suspend execution of sentence or grant                                                                      
     probation except  on condition that the  person serve a                                                                    
     minimum  term  of  imprisonment  and  perform  required                                                                    
     community  work  service as  provided  in  (1) of  this                                                                    
     subsection;                                                                                                                
              (B)  suspend imposition of sentence;                                                                              
               (4)  shall revoke the person's license,                                                                          
     privilege to  drive, or privilege to  obtain a license,                                                                    
     and the  person may not  be issued  a new license  or a                                                                    
     limited  license  nor may  the  privilege  to drive  or                                                                    
     obtain a  license be restored for  an additional period                                                                    
     of  not less  than  90  days after  the  date that  the                                                                    
     person  would  have  been entitled  to  restoration  of                                                                    
     driving privileges; and                                                                                                    
               (5)  may order that the motor vehicle that                                                                       
     was  used in  commission  of the  offense be  forfeited                                                                    
     under  AS 28.35.036  and  shall order  that  the  motor                                                                
     vehicle  used  in  the commission  of  the  offense  be                                                                
     forfeited  under AS 28.35.036  if the  person has  been                                                                
     previously convicted under this section."                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
     Renumber the following bill sections accordingly.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     Page 2, following line 9:                                                                                                  
     Insert new bill sections to read:                                                                                          
        "* Sec. 5. AS 28.35.036(b) is amended to read:                                                                      
          (b)  Before forfeiture of a motor vehicle,                                                                            
     aircraft,  or watercraft,  the court  shall schedule  a                                                                    
     hearing on  the matter and  shall notify the  state and                                                                    
     the convicted person of the  time and place set for the                                                                    
     hearing.  Except  for  a motor  vehicle,  aircraft,  or                                                                    
     watercraft  that  is  required to  be  forfeited  under                                                                    
     AS 28.15.291,  AS 28.35.030,  or 28.35.032,  the  court                                                            
     may order  the forfeiture of  the motor vehicle  if the                                                                    
     court,  sitting  without  a   jury,  determines,  by  a                                                                    
     preponderance of  the evidence, that the  forfeiture of                                                                    
     the motor  vehicle, aircraft, or watercraft  will serve                                                                    
     one or more of the following purposes:                                                                                     
               (1)  deterrence of the convicted person from                                                                     
     the    commission    of     future    offenses    under                                                                    
     [AS 28.15.291(b),] AS 28.35.030 [,] or 28.35.032;                                                                          
               (2)  protection of the safety and welfare of                                                                     
     the public;                                                                                                                
               (3)  deterrence of other persons who are                                                                         
     potential     offenders    under     [AS 28.15.291(b),]                                                                    
     AS 28.35.030 [,] or 28.35.032; or                                                                                          
               (4)  expression of public condemnation of                                                                        
     the  serious  or  aggravated nature  of  the  convicted                                                                    
     person's conduct.                                                                                                          
        *  Sec.  6. AS 28.40  is  amended  by adding  a  new                                                                  
     section to read:                                                                                                           
     Sec.  28.40.080.  Impoundment  of  motor  vehicle  when                                                                  
     arrested  for  certain offenses.  On  the  arrest of  a                                                                  
     person for  a violation of  AS 28.15.291, AS 28.33.030,                                                                    
     28.33.031,  AS 28.35.030,   or  28.35.032,   the  motor                                                                    
     vehicle used in the commission  of the offense shall be                                                                    
     impounded. If  the motor vehicle is  not forfeited, the                                                                    
     motor vehicle shall be held  for six months, unless the                                                                    
     person is acquitted of the  offense. The cost of towing                                                                    
     and storage  of the vehicle  is a lien on  the vehicle.                                                                    
     If  another  person  claims an  ownership  or  security                                                                    
     interest in the motor  vehicle and establishes that the                                                                    
     interest predated  the offense and was  acquired by the                                                                    
     other  person  in  good  faith,   the  vehicle  may  be                                                                    
     released to  that other person  if the person  pays the                                                                    
     accrued cost of towing and storage of the vehicle."                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GARDNER objected to Amendment 7.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
10:09:03 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEATON said, "This is a  question of whether we should have                                                               
drivers licenses  at all."  He  stated, "It seems to  me if we're                                                               
not going to say there is  something more than just saying you're                                                               
not  supposed   to  drive  without   your  license   upon  second                                                               
conviction,  we're  really  saying  we  shouldn't  be  issuing  a                                                               
driver's license and we should just let anybody drive."                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
10:10:08 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GARA  said  adding  Amendment  7  is  up  to  the                                                               
committee.  Notwithstanding that, he added:                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     If the person driving the  car without a license is the                                                                    
     owner, that seems to be  the penalty you're getting at.                                                                    
     But  what if  the  car  is ...  owned  by somebody  who                                                                    
     didn't know that  the person who was driving  it had no                                                                    
     license.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GARA offered an example.   He said he thinks there                                                               
ought  to be  a defense  for  the owner  of the  car who  doesn't                                                               
knowingly provide the car to someone without a license.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
10:11:59 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GRUENBERG opposed  Amendment 7.   He  said he  is                                                               
definitely  not in  favor of  people  driving without  insurance,                                                               
without  a license,  or  with a  suspended  license; however,  he                                                               
indicated that a forfeiture "can be  way out of proportion to the                                                               
seriousness of the offense."                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
10:12:46 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  SEATON  said, "The  forfeiture  from  someone who  is  not                                                               
knowingly involved is  not really the case."   He said [Amendment                                                               
7] covers two  issues:  the first part deals  with the forfeiture                                                               
issue, and the  part of the amendment addressing  Section 6 deals                                                               
with the impoundment  of the vehicle.  He  reminded the committee                                                               
of  several recent  driving incidents.    One was  a couple  from                                                               
Anchor Point killed by a person  driving without a license.  Even                                                               
after that  accident, a  relative loaned  the person  without the                                                               
license a car.   There was no  penalty at all for  the person who                                                               
loaned the vehicle, he said.   He stated, "At some point in time,                                                               
if  you're loaning  what  is  basically a  deadly  weapon on  our                                                               
streets to somebody,  you ought to be responsible  enough to find                                                               
out whether that person's entitled to drive."                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
10:15:25 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG  asked that the two  issues in Amendment                                                               
7 be considered separately.  He  asked that "part a" include page                                                               
1, line  6, through page  3, line  10, [as numbered  on Amendment                                                               
7], and that page 3, lines  11-21 [as numbered on Amendment 7] be                                                               
called "part b."                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  SEATON said,  "I will  accept that  as a  division of  the                                                               
question."                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG  stated, "Then I will  move the question                                                               
on   part  a   ...  as   [an]  amendment   to  delete   part  a."                                                               
[Representative   Gruenberg   moved   to  adopt   Amendment   7a.                                                               
Representative Gruenberg moved to  adopt Amendment 1 to Amendment                                                               
7a.]                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
10:16:11 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEATON said objected to Amendment 1 to Amendment 7a.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
10:16:43 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GARDNER directed attention  to page 2, lines 17-20                                                               
[as numbered on  Amendment 7a].  She said she  thinks there needs                                                               
to  be a  provision  addressing  when a  defendant  is driving  a                                                               
vehicle that is not his own.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
10:17:10 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GRUENBERG  said  [Amendment 1  to  Amendment  7a]                                                               
would remove  the language that  Representative Gardner  had just                                                               
highlighted [because it would remove Amendment 7a entirely].                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  SEATON added,  "And  your  issue, like  I  said, we  could                                                               
clarify, but it's already covered in law."                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEATON,  in response  to a  request for  clarification from                                                               
Representative Gatto,  said the  motion is to  delete "everything                                                               
before Section 6 [as shown in Amendments 7a and 7b]."                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
10:17:37 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
A roll  call vote was  taken.  Representative Gruenberg  voted in                                                               
favor of [Amendment  1 to Amendment 7a].   Representatives Gatto,                                                               
Gardner, and Seaton voted against  it.  Therefore, Amendment 1 to                                                               
Amendment 7a failed to be adopted by  a vote of 1-3.  [The result                                                               
of this  vote is that  the motion  to adopt Amendment  7a remains                                                               
before the committee.]                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
10:18:58 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GARDNER said she  would like some public testimony                                                               
on "this provision."   She stated, "As a general  principle ... I                                                               
support  taking a  vehicle  away from  somebody  who persists  in                                                               
using it without a license."                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
10:19:35 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GARA  directed attention  to page 2,  lines 17-19,                                                               
[as  numbered on  Amendment  7a],  and said  it  seems the  court                                                               
currently has  the discretion to  order a forfeiture  for driving                                                               
without a  license, so "maybe that's  the way it should  be."  He                                                               
recommended having  the mandatory  impoundment provision  that is                                                               
in [Amendment  7b], but not  to have mandatory forfeiture  in all                                                               
cases.  He offered further details.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
10:20:43 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEATON  responded, "I think  that that would have  been the                                                               
effect of Representative Gruenberg's motion."                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
10:21:46 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  SEATON   asked  for  unanimous  consent   to  rescind  the                                                               
committee's action in failing to  adopt [Amendment 1 to Amendment                                                               
7a, which  would have  deleted the  entire language  of Amendment                                                               
7a].  There being on objection,  it was so ordered [and Amendment                                                               
1 to Amendment 7 was before the committee.]                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
10:22:17 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GATTO  said he  would like the  bill held  over in                                                               
order to leave time for the public to testify.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
10:22:38 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEATON announced that HB 347 was heard and held.                                                                          

Document Name Date/Time Subjects