Legislature(2001 - 2002)

04/03/2001 08:05 AM STA

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HB 193 - MODIFIED BLANKET PRIMARY ELECTION                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Number 1527                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR COGHILL announced that the  next order of business would be                                                               
HOUSE BILL  NO. 193,  "An Act relating  to the  primary election;                                                               
and providing for an effective date."  He declared a brief at-                                                                  
ease to allow  people to shake hands with Governor  Hammond.  The                                                               
meeting resumed three minutes later.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Number 1574                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
LIEUTENANT  GOVERNOR FRAN  ULMER came  forward to  testify on  HB
193.    She began  by  explaining  why legislation  is  required.                                                               
Alaska, like  Washington and California, had  a "blanket primary"                                                               
system,  one in  which  all  of the  candidates  for  all of  the                                                               
parties  appear on  a  single ballot  and a  voter  can pick  and                                                               
choose among them.  Last  summer, the United States Supreme Court                                                               
in a California case ruled that  any state with a blanket primary                                                               
must modify it  if any of the political parties  objected to non-                                                               
party members voting  on their candidates.   The Republican Party                                                               
of  Alaska   requested  that  only  Republicans   and  undeclared                                                               
nonpartisans  be allowed  to  vote on  their  candidates, so  the                                                               
lieutenant   governor    last   summer    promulgated   emergency                                                               
regulations  to   govern  the  2000  primary   election.    Those                                                               
emergency  regulations  went out  of  existence  as soon  as  the                                                               
primary  election  was  over, creating  a  need  for  legislative                                                               
action to decide  how Alaska's primary system is to  operate.  In                                                               
order to make a recommendation  to the legislature, she created a                                                               
task  force made  up  of four  former  lieutenant governors,  two                                                               
former attorneys general,  and a representative of  the League of                                                               
Women  Voters.   That  group  arrived  at a  unanimous  consensus                                                               
position,  on  which  HB  193  is based.    Avrum  Gross,  former                                                               
attorney general under  Governor Hammond, served as  chair of the                                                               
task force.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Number 1791                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
AVRUM GROSS, Chair, Primary Election  Task Force, came forward to                                                               
testify.    He  observed  that   the  committee  members  brought                                                               
together  about 400  years  of political  experience.   The  task                                                               
force  was   strictly  nonpartisan.    It   proceeded  under  the                                                               
assumption that it  had to come up with  something because Alaska                                                               
no longer  has a  law governing  primary elections  and something                                                               
has  to   be  put  in  place.     The  task  force   first  heard                                                               
presentations from the state, then  held public hearings in which                                                               
all major  and minor  parties in Alaska  participated.   The task                                                               
force then drafted a law with which all its members agreed.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR.  GROSS said  the  basic  principal used  in  drafting was  to                                                               
change the law as little as  possible from what had existed prior                                                               
to the  Jones case.   None of the  parties objected to  a blanket                                                               
primary so  long as they  could limit  their primary if  they saw                                                               
fit.  The task force decided  that when a party [for example, the                                                               
Republican Party]  wished to limit participation  in its primary,                                                               
all registered  Republicans would receive  a ballot with  all the                                                               
candidates  on  it.    Everyone  else would  get  a  ballot  with                                                               
everybody  on  it except  Republicans,  so  the Republican  Party                                                               
would  be  able   to  limit  participation  in   its  primary  to                                                               
registered Republicans                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR. GROSS said  the task force also concluded  that party members                                                               
could  still vote  for candidates  in  other parties  so long  as                                                               
those parties allowed  it.  In doing so, the  task force retained                                                               
the  concept  of  a  blanket  primary  unless  that  primary  was                                                               
narrowed by  party choices.   That is  consistent with  the Jones                                                               
case and with Alaska's past practice.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Number 2067                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR.  GROSS explained  that  the  committee substitute  approaches                                                               
from a  different direction.  The CS starts  off with  all closed                                                               
primaries.   The  only  people  who will  get  a party's  primary                                                               
ballot will be  registered members of that party.   But any party                                                               
can,  through its  own  party  rules, open  its  primary to  more                                                               
people.   The  task  force  took the  other  approach because  it                                                               
thought the  majority of Alaskans  would favor a  blanket primary                                                               
system insofar as possible.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Number 2186                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. GROSS said  the task force took testimony and  set a deadline                                                               
by which the  parties must be decide who is  going to participate                                                               
in  their   primaries.  September  of  the   preceding  year  was                                                               
unanimously accepted.   The task force also  decided the deadline                                                               
for registration in a party would  be 30 days before the election                                                               
[the last day on which people can register to vote].                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Number 2301                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JAMES  asked Mr. Gross  why he had  identified the                                                               
task force as nonpartisan.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. GROSS  said he  wanted the committee  to understand  that the                                                               
proposal  [HB  193]  had  not  come  from  any  particular  party                                                               
viewpoint.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JAMES interpreted that to  mean the task force had                                                               
come  at the  task from  an administrative  position, not  from a                                                               
party position.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. GROSS affirmed that was correct.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JAMES said the  outcome reflected that perspective                                                               
as opposed to what it might  have been if determined by political                                                               
parties.  She asked  if a person who is not  a party member could                                                               
file for office.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. GROSS said such a person could do so by petition.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  JAMES surmised  that if  more than  one candidate                                                               
did so,  they would not  compete in the  primary.  It  appears to                                                               
her that primaries  are specifically for parties  to choose their                                                               
candidates,  and  if  there  were   not  parties  choosing  their                                                               
candidates, there would be no need for a primary.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR. GROSS thought that was probably true.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JAMES noted that people  who are not party members                                                               
rarely run  for public  office and that  half of  Alaska's voters                                                               
are not party  members.  She thinks the state  is missing a large                                                               
group of folks who might be  good office holders and have a good,                                                               
balanced approach.   "As long  as we  continue to make  the party                                                               
worth nothing,  we are  going to  have more  and more  people who                                                               
never run for election," she said.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Number 2495                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR.  GROSS  said  the task  force  had  discussed  Representative                                                               
James' concern and came to the  conclusion that, "This in the end                                                               
will probably weaken parties more  than anything we can think of.                                                               
The  reason it  will  weaken parties  is  because [almost]  every                                                               
party that testified  ... indicated that it  would probably allow                                                               
independents to participate in its  primaries but would not allow                                                               
registered members  of other  parties to  participate."   He said                                                               
the result is  that the only people  who are going to  be able to                                                               
vote for all the candidates are  going to be independents.  Polls                                                               
show that the vast majority  of Alaska voters consider themselves                                                               
to be  independents, he  said.   The parties  have the  option of                                                               
closing  their primaries  to  all but  registered  members.   The                                                               
problem with that  is, "The more you close  your party's primary,                                                               
the purer your candidates become and  the less likely they are to                                                               
win  general elections  .  . .  . The  reason  that most  parties                                                               
welcome independents  into their parties is  because they realize                                                               
that at  some point or another  they're going to have  to get the                                                               
independents  to vote  for them  to win  a general  election," he                                                               
said.   Mr.  Gross pointed  out that  this could  result in  many                                                               
people leaving  parties.  So long  as parties are going  to allow                                                               
independents  to  participate  in  their process  and  not  allow                                                               
people from other  parties, then the only way a  citizen can vote                                                               
for everybody is to be an independent.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Number 2627                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR COGHILL said  one of the reasons he brought  forward the CS                                                               
was to  give the parties a  choice rather than making  the choice                                                               
for them.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR.  GROSS clarified  that  HB 193  allows  parties to  eliminate                                                               
independents from voting  in their primaries.   "You're coming at                                                               
it  by  saying you  start  with  parties  and  they have  to  add                                                               
independents.  We've started by  saying there's everybody and you                                                               
have to eliminate independents."                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  COGHILL  said, "I  think  that's  a public  perception  of                                                               
exclusion rather  than inclusion,  ... and that's  why I  came to                                                               
that policy call."                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Number 2652                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   STEVENS   observed   that  if   there   were   a                                                               
proliferation of  parties, the state could  end up with a  lot of                                                               
ballots.  He asked if that was going to be a problem.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Number 2586                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR.  GROSS said  there are  now six  political parties  and there                                                               
could  be a  maximum of  six ballots,  one for  each party.   "By                                                               
insisting on a blanket primary  insofar as possible, what we were                                                               
saying  was that  the  party  can decide  who  can  vote for  its                                                               
candidates but it can't decide who  its members may vote for," he                                                               
said.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Number 2755                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR COGHILL  observed that there  is a cost involved  in having                                                               
parties exclude people from their ballots.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. GROSS agreed.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  STEVENS  expressed  concern that  there  are  six                                                               
parties now,  but no  restriction on the  number that  could come                                                               
into being.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. GROSS said  there is a limit;  a party needs to  have a three                                                               
percent vote in the prior gubernatorial election.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  COGHILL thought  the cost  would be  around $50,000  for a                                                               
party to exclude others under the task force plan.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Number 2805                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  STEVENS saw  the  proliferation of  parties as  a                                                               
real danger in the future.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. GROSS  said one has  to start  with the premise  that parties                                                               
constitutionally have the right to  do this.  "There's nothing we                                                               
can do  about that.   The Supreme  Court has ruled.   So  if each                                                               
party has rules  about who may nominate its  candidates, some way                                                               
you're going to have to accommodate that."                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR COGHILL  said the task force  tried to keep the  primary as                                                               
open as  possible, and he thinks  the policy call that  has to be                                                               
made "is whether we're doing it for exclusion for inclusion."                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Number 2872                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CRAWFORD  asked if a nonpartisan  primary had been                                                               
considered.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR.  GROSS said  it was  considered and  had a  lot of  appeal at                                                               
first.   Everyone who wanted  to run would  file and the  two top                                                               
vote-getters would  face one another  in a runoff,  regardless of                                                               
party.  Louisiana is  the only state that does it  that way.  The                                                               
problem with  it is that  the two  best candidates do  not emerge                                                               
from the  field, but when there  are 12 or 14  people running for                                                               
an  office, "a  dedicated group  of followers  is all  you really                                                               
need  to  make  it  into  the  finals,"  he  said.    "You  don't                                                               
necessarily get candidates who represent  the majority.  You tend                                                               
to  get very  well organized,  extreme groups."   The  task force                                                               
rejected the  idea of a  nonpartisan primary because it  does not                                                               
produce two  candidates who represent major,  differing points of                                                               
view.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 01-31, SIDE B                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Number 2948                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR ULMER spoke to  the number of ballots.  Under                                                               
the CS, there  potentially would be six ballots, one  for each of                                                               
the  six recognized  parties.   Under  the  original bill,  there                                                               
potentially would  be seven  ballots.   The seventh  ballot would                                                               
include all  of the candidates from  all of the parties  and only                                                               
nonpartisan  voters  would get  it  [just  like the  old  blanket                                                               
primary  ballot],  assuming  that  all the  party  rules  allowed                                                               
nonpartisans  to  vote for  their  candidates.   Looking  at  the                                                               
fiscal difference between  the CS and the  original version, it's                                                               
really  just one  more ballot.   In  terms of  the public  policy                                                               
call, "it is really just a  question ... of your philosophy about                                                               
primaries," she said.  The  primary traditionally has been viewed                                                               
as the  parties' opportunity to  decide who their  nominees would                                                               
be.  It used to be done  by convention until most states chose to                                                               
open up the convention process to  a more democratic system.  She                                                               
said that  in states like  Alaska, where  over 50 percent  of the                                                               
voters register as undeclared or nonpartisan:                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
     It seems  like disenfranchising over 50  percent of the                                                                    
     voters ... in  the primary process may not  be the most                                                                    
     democratic  system.   That's the  tradeoff  here.   How                                                                    
     much do you  allow just the party to  determine its own                                                                    
     nominees  and  how  much   do  you  allow  independents                                                                    
     nonpartisans, undeclareds  to also participate  in that                                                                    
     party process?   And as long as the party  says we want                                                                    
     them  in,  it seems  to  me  we  ought to  allow  that.                                                                    
     Whether you set  it up as an opt-in or  opt-out as long                                                                    
     as the  party rules  control, it's a  shade of  gray, I                                                                    
     guess.   The shade  of gray that  the task  force chose                                                                    
     was the shade of gray  of saying assume everybody's in,                                                                    
     reflecting a  longstanding tradition  in Alaska  of the                                                                    
     blanket primary.   What the task force tried  to so was                                                                    
     stay as close to existing  law only change it enough to                                                                    
     accommodate the  Jones decision as opposed  to changing                                                                    
     it more dramatically.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Number 2790                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR ULMER  added that the task  force had settled                                                               
on the September deadline for  notifying the state of party rules                                                               
because the  parties said they would  know by May or  June at the                                                               
latest what  those rules  were going to  be, and  September gives                                                               
the Division of  Elections sufficient time to  make the necessary                                                               
changes on ballots and programming.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Number 2722                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  WILSON  asked if  under  the  original bill,  the                                                               
Republicans were the only ones  who close their primary, how many                                                               
ballots there would be.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
LIEUTENANT  GOVERNOR ULMER  said two.  Republicans, independents,                                                               
and nonpartisans would  get one ballot [with everyone  on it] and                                                               
everybody  else  would  get  the   blanket  ballot  [listing  all                                                               
candidates except  Republicans].  The  task force thought  it was                                                               
better to  err on the side  of allowing individuals the  right to                                                               
vote to the fullest extent possible.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Number 2600                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE HAYES  wondered why the  state pays for  a primary                                                               
if it is a  function of the parties.  He thinks  if a party wants                                                               
to exclude a large number of  voters from its process, that party                                                               
should pay for its primary election.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
LIEUTENANT  GOVERNOR  ULMER  explained  that  the  state  has  an                                                               
interest  in fair  and open  elections  at both  the primary  and                                                               
general  stage.   In  general,  states  moved from  a  convention                                                               
system, which  was totally  controlled by  parties, to  a primary                                                               
system  because of  the  notion that  opening  up the  nomination                                                               
process  opens up  the  democratic election  process.   She  said                                                               
Sarah Felix, Assistant Attorney  General, could describe cases in                                                               
other states that have raised related questions.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Number 2487                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR COGHILL passed the gavel to Representative Fate.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Number 2446                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
SARAH  FELIX, Assistant  Attorney  General, Governmental  Affairs                                                               
Section,  Civil  Division  (Juneau),   Department  of  Law,  came                                                               
forward to  testify.  She explained  that Alaska would not  be on                                                               
very firm ground  if it were to require the  political parties to                                                               
pay  for the  primary  elections.   There  have  been two  United                                                               
States  Supreme  Court opinions  and  one  federal appeals  court                                                               
decision  out of  the Eighth  Circuit that  have addressed  these                                                               
issues.   The Supreme  Court opinions are  not directly  on point                                                               
but suggest how the Supreme Court would address this issue.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS.  FELIX said  in one  case, Texas  had tried  to impose  large                                                               
filing fees  on candidates.   The court struck that  down, saying                                                               
it unduly burdened candidates' rights  of freedom of association.                                                               
That ruling  was similar to  the one  in the California  v. Jones                                                             
case,  which said  if  a  state makes  it  very  difficult for  a                                                               
political  party  to participate  in  a  primary, that  state  is                                                               
burdening their First Amendment  associational rights.  Ms. Felix                                                               
thinks making  a party  pay for a  primary election  would impose                                                               
that kind of burden.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MS.  FELIX  said  the  Eight  Circuit  Court  case,  Faulkner  v.                                                             
Arkansas,  the state  had established  a system  that required  a                                                             
primary and  required the political parties  to pay for it.   The                                                               
Eighth Circuit  Court struck that  down.   One of the  parties in                                                               
that case had been unable to  afford a primary election, so there                                                               
wasn't a  primary for that  party and it essentially  dropped out                                                               
of the general  election.  "Given how the U.S.  Supreme Court has                                                               
been  viewing the  primary system  and given  how they  have been                                                               
affording political  parties very  broad rights," if  Alaska were                                                               
to impose that kind of a  system, Ms. Felix doubted that it would                                                               
stand.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Number 2497                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE HAYES  said he understood the  state's interest in                                                               
a general  election, but not  in the  primary election if  is the                                                               
method by which parties nominate  their candidates.  He thought a                                                               
party should be  able to make its  own rules and use  a caucus or                                                               
any other method  to determine its candidates.   The state should                                                               
not have  any involvement in that,  but would come back  into the                                                               
process for  the general election  where it does have  a pressing                                                               
interest.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Number 2487                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
ACTING CHAIR FATE returned the gavel to Chair Coghill.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MS. FELIX  said Representative  Hayes is  correct that  the state                                                               
need  not have  a primary  election.   The task  force considered                                                               
that option,  but chose  to hold a  primary because  they thought                                                               
doing so  was more inclusive.   The  option is a  policy question                                                               
open to the House State Affairs Standing Committee.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR COGHILL noted that HB 193  is to be considered by the House                                                               
Judiciary Standing  Committee.   He then  brought forward  the CS                                                               
for HB 193.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Number 2269                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JAMES  moved to adopt  the proposed CS for  HB 193                                                               
[Version  C dated  3/28/01] as  the working  document before  the                                                               
committee.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE HAYES objected, saying that  if Alaska is going to                                                               
have a primary  system, he wants to make it  as open as possible.                                                               
He understands  the CS to say  that voters would have  to declare                                                               
their party affiliation 30 days before the primary.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR COGHILL  said that  would be  true in  either version.   He                                                               
thought  the   CS  was  closer   to  what   Representative  Hayes                                                               
preferred.  It says the  primaries are presumed closed until they                                                               
are opened by the parties.   By contrast, the original task force                                                               
version is that  the primaries are open  unless somebody excluded                                                               
them.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  HAYES said  what the  CS  is saying  that in  the                                                               
Republican closed  primary, there would be  Republican candidates                                                               
and everybody else.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR COGHILL said it would be  up to the party to include people                                                               
beyond Republicans  if they so chose,  and the CS gives  them the                                                               
option to do that.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  HAYES  said  he  is  more  comfortable  with  the                                                               
original HB  193 because he  thinks it more closely  matches what                                                               
he heard from the public.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR COGHILL said that was a  point well taken; that there is no                                                               
doubt that this is a policy call.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Number 2099                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE WILSON recalled  that in both the  original HB 193                                                               
and  the CS,  voters had  to register  30 days  in advance  of an                                                               
election.   She  asked the  lieutenant  governor if  in the  last                                                               
election  [in   which  voters  were   allowed  to   change  their                                                               
registration  up  to and  including  election  day], many  people                                                               
switched.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
LIEUTENANT  GOVERNOR ULMER  said  a few  had  switched, but  that                                                               
there had not been a huge shift.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Number 2027                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
A roll call vote on the motion  to adopt Version C as the working                                                               
document  was  taken.    Representatives  Fate,  James,  Stevens,                                                               
Wilson, and Coghill voted for  CSHB 193. Representatives Crawford                                                               
and  Hayes voted  against  CSHB  193.   Therefore,  CSHB 193  was                                                               
before the committee by a vote of 5 to 2.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Number 1933                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  WILSON moved  conceptual  Amendment  1 to  change                                                               
CSHB 193  in accordance  with the  lieutenant governor's  and the                                                               
task force's recommendation:                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     Page 2, line 5,                                                                                                            
          Delete "November 1"                                                                                                   
          Insert "September 1".                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
There being no  objection, it was so ordered and  Amendment 1 was                                                               
adopted.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Number 1888                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  JAMES stated  for  the record  that she  strongly                                                               
believes in  the two-party system. Her  personal preference would                                                               
be for  only party people to  vote for party candidates.  If that                                                               
were  the case,  she thinks  a lot  of unaffiliated  voters would                                                               
join the parties, and that would please  her a lot.  She said she                                                               
supports  the   CS  "mostly  because  it   makes  parties,  makes                                                               
positions, and the other way doesn't necessarily."                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Number 1613                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CRAWFORD said:                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
     I believe the  direction we're heading is  to close the                                                                    
     primary,  to  make  people become  more  partisan.    I                                                                    
     believe that  it's going to  take the  political center                                                                    
     away.    I  believe  that  we're  going  to  have  more                                                                    
     candidates from  the radical right or  the radical left                                                                    
     and I  believe that  it's the  wrong direction  to take                                                                    
     Alaska politics  because I believe  that the  center is                                                                    
     much more inclusive.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Number 1568                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  STEVENS sought  clarification  of  the number  of                                                               
ballots that  would be possible under  the CS and wanted  to know                                                               
if  it  changes the  requirement  that  voters register  30  days                                                               
before the election.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  COGHILL said  the  CS still  includes  the requirement  to                                                               
register  30 days  in  advance and,  as  the lieutenant  governor                                                               
said, the  CS probably  has one  less ballot  than what  would be                                                               
required under the original  HB 193.  He did not  like the air of                                                               
exclusion of the original.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Number 1464                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR ULMER corrected  a previous statement she had                                                               
made.   There could be either  six or seven ballots  under either                                                               
HB 193  or CSHB 193, depending  on party rules.   Both give power                                                               
to  the parties  to determine  their  candidates.   One says  the                                                               
primary  is open  unless it  is closed,  and the  other says  the                                                               
primary is closed unless it is opened.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Number 1387                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE HAYES  expressed appreciation for the  comments of                                                               
Representative James.   His biggest  fundamental problem  is that                                                               
if  the  parties  want  that much  control  over  the  nominating                                                               
process, then why  should the state be involved?   Why should the                                                               
state foot  the bill to allow  a party to nominate  who it wants?                                                               
He thinks the state's interest is in the general election.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR COGHILL said he agreed and  that that was a separate policy                                                               
question.   He invited  Representative Hayes  to bring  forward a                                                               
bill to that effect and promised to give it a hearing.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Number 1316                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JAMES agreed with  Representative Hayes.  She said                                                               
the party caucus is no longer  used by either party.  "The caucus                                                               
is the  basic premise,  the grass roots  of party  activism," she                                                               
said.   "That's when within your  precinct you get the  people to                                                               
come together and  discuss the issues, you  discuss the platform,                                                               
... you  get that grass  roots effort" [which shapes  the party],                                                               
she  said.     She  indicated  willingness   to  co-sponsor  with                                                               
Representative Hayes a bill calling for party caucuses.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Number 1193                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  CRAWFORD said  he  thinks the  CS  is more  about                                                               
appearances, that  it is trying  to guard against  the appearance                                                               
of being a closed party as opposed to an open party.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE WILSON  observed that things may  have evolved the                                                               
way they have in Alaska because the state is so vast.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Number 1103                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JAMES  moved to report  CSHB 193, as  amended, out                                                               
of  the House  State Affairs  Standing Committee  with individual                                                               
recommendations and the accompanying fiscal note.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  CRAWFORD  objected  because   he  thinks  the  CS                                                               
eliminates many  people from  the process and  he opposes  the CS                                                               
because it is exclusionary rather than inclusionary.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
A  roll  call  vote  was taken.    Representatives  Fate,  James,                                                               
Stevens,  Wilson, and  Coghill  voted for  CSHB  193 as  amended.                                                               
Representatives  Crawford and  Hayes  voted against  CSHB 193  as                                                               
amended.   Therefore, CSHB 193(STA)  was reported from  the House                                                               
State Affairs Standing Committee.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                

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