Legislature(2015 - 2016)BARNES 124

03/23/2016 01:00 PM RESOURCES

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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+= HB 247 TAX;CREDITS;INTEREST;REFUNDS;O & G TELECONFERENCED
<Bill Hearing Canceled>
*+ HB 254 EXTEND BIG GAME COMMERCIAL SERVICES BOARD TELECONFERENCED
Moved HB 254 Out of Committee
-- Public Testimony --
*+ HB 177 KING SALMON TAGS AND DESIGNS TELECONFERENCED
Heard & Held
-- Public Testimony --
+ Bills Previously Heard/Scheduled TELECONFERENCED
                    ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE                                                                                  
               HOUSE RESOURCES STANDING COMMITTEE                                                                             
                         March 23, 2016                                                                                         
                           1:07 p.m.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Representative Benjamin Nageak, Co-Chair                                                                                        
Representative David Talerico, Co-Chair                                                                                         
Representative Bob Herron                                                                                                       
Representative Craig Johnson                                                                                                    
Representative Kurt Olson                                                                                                       
Representative Paul Seaton                                                                                                      
Representative Andy Josephson                                                                                                   
Representative Geran Tarr                                                                                                       
Representative Mike Chenault (alternate)                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Representative Mike Hawker, Vice Chair                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE BILL NO. 254                                                                                                              
"An Act extending the termination date of the Big Game                                                                          
Commercial Services Board; and providing for an effective date."                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     - MOVED HB 254 OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE BILL NO. 177                                                                                                              
"An Act relating to king salmon tags and king salmon tag                                                                        
designs."                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     - HEARD & HELD                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
BILL: HB 254                                                                                                                  
SHORT TITLE: EXTEND BIG GAME COMMERCIAL SERVICES BOARD                                                                          
SPONSOR(s): REPRESENTATIVE(s) STUTES                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
01/19/16       (H)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
01/19/16       (H)       RES, FIN                                                                                               
03/23/16       (H)       RES AT 1:00 PM BARNES 124                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
BILL: HB 177                                                                                                                  
SHORT TITLE: KING SALMON TAGS AND DESIGNS                                                                                       
SPONSOR(s): REPRESENTATIVE(s) KELLER                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
04/01/15       (H)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
04/01/15       (H)       FSH, RES                                                                                               
01/26/16       (H)       FSH AT 10:00 AM CAPITOL 120                                                                            
01/26/16       (H)       Moved HB 177 Out of Committee                                                                          
01/26/16       (H)       MINUTE (FSH)                                                                                           
01/27/16       (H)       FSH RPT 2DP 3NR                                                                                        
01/27/16       (H)       DP: FOSTER, MILLETT                                                                                    
01/27/16       (H)       NR: HERRON, KREISS-TOMKINS, STUTES                                                                     
01/27/16       (H)       FIN REFERRAL ADDED AFTER RES                                                                           
02/12/16       (H)       RES AT 1:00 PM BARNES 124                                                                              
02/12/16       (H)       <Bill Hearing Canceled>                                                                                
03/23/16       (H)       RES AT 1:00 PM BARNES 124                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE LOUISE STUTES                                                                                                    
Alaska State Legislature                                                                                                        
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:  Presented HB 254 as prime sponsor.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
STEVE HANDY, Staff                                                                                                              
Representative Louise Stutes                                                                                                    
Alaska State Legislature                                                                                                        
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:  Introduced HB 254 on behalf of                                                                           
Representative Stutes, prime sponsor.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
DICK ROHRER                                                                                                                     
Kodiak, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:  During the hearing of HB 254, testified and                                                              
answered questions.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
JANEY HOVENDEN, Director                                                                                                        
Division of Corporations, Business, and Professional Licensing                                                                  
Department of Commerce, Community & Economic Development (DCCED)                                                                
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:  During the hearing of HB 254, testified                                                                  
regarding fiscal notes.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
THOR STACEY, Lobbyist                                                                                                           
Alaska Professional Hunters Association                                                                                         
Fairbanks, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of HB 254.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
JOE KLUTSCH                                                                                                                     
King Salmon, Alaska                                                                                                             
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of HB 254.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
JASON BUNCH                                                                                                                     
Kodiak, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of HB 254.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
FRANK BISHOP                                                                                                                    
Kodiak, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of HB 254.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
PAUL CHERVENAK                                                                                                                  
Kodiak, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of HB 254.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
KAREN POLLEY, Vice Chair                                                                                                        
Big Game Commercial Services Board                                                                                              
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:  During the hearing of HB 254, explained the                                                              
workings of the Big Game Commercial Services Board.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
FRED PARADY, Deputy Commissioner                                                                                                
Department of Commerce, Community & Economic Development (DCCED)                                                                
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:  Offered DCCED's support for HB 254 and                                                                   
provided audit information regarding the Big Game Commercial                                                                    
Services Board.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MARK RICHARDS, Executive Director                                                                                               
Resident Hunters of Alaska                                                                                                      
Fairbanks, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in opposition to HB 254.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
EDDIE GRASSER, Lobbyist                                                                                                         
Safari International                                                                                                            
Palmer, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of HB 254.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
ROD ARNO, Executive Director                                                                                                    
Alaska Outdoor Council                                                                                                          
Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of HB 254.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
KRIS CURTIS, Legislative Auditor                                                                                                
Legislative Budget and Audit                                                                                                    
Alaska State Legislature                                                                                                        
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION  STATEMENT:   During  the hearing  of  HB 254,  testified                                                            
regarding the audit.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
JIM POUND, Staff                                                                                                                
Representative Wes Keller                                                                                                       
Alaska State Legislature                                                                                                        
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION   STATEMENT:      Introduced   HB  177   on   behalf   of                                                            
Representative Keller, prime sponsor.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
STEPHANIE WHEELER, Communications Officer                                                                                       
Alaska Railroad                                                                                                                 
Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT:  Answered questions related to HB 177.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
KEVIN BROOKS, Deputy Commissioner                                                                                               
Office of the Commissioner                                                                                                      
Alaska Department of Fish & Game (ADF&G)                                                                                        
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:  Answered questions related to HB 177.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
1:07:05 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  DAVID  TALERICO  called  the  House  Resources  Standing                                                            
Committee meeting  to order at  1:07 p.m.  Representatives  Olson,                                                              
Seaton,  Josephson, Tarr,  Nageak,  and Talerico  were present  at                                                              
the  call  to   order.    Representatives   Chenault  (alternate),                                                              
Herron, and Johnson arrived as the meeting was in progress.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
        HB 254-EXTEND BIG GAME COMMERCIAL SERVICES BOARD                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
1:08:00 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR TALERICO  announced that the  first order of  business is                                                              
HOUSE  BILL NO. 254,  "An Act  extending the  termination  date of                                                              
the  Big Game  Commercial  Services Board;  and  providing for  an                                                              
effective date."                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
1:08:17 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   LOUISE   STUTES,    Alaska   State   Legislature,                                                              
introduced  her staff member,  Mr. Steve  Handy, and advised  that                                                              
he would walk the committee through the bill.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
1:09:01 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
STEVE  HANDY, Staff,  Representative Louise  Stutes, Alaska  State                                                              
Legislature, explained  that HB  254 would extend  the termination                                                              
date of  the Big Game  Commercial Services  Board by  three years,                                                              
from June  30, 2016  to June 30,  2019.  The  board is  staffed by                                                              
the   Division  of   Corporations,   Business,  and   Professional                                                              
Licensing,  and  consists of  two  licensed and  registered  guide                                                              
outfitters, two  licensed transporters,  two private  land owners,                                                              
two public  members, and  one member  of the Board  of Game.   The                                                              
board  provides  a  legislative  command  to  assist  in  resource                                                              
conservation  and consumer  protection,  it develops  professional                                                              
and ethical  standards, administers  exams, makes final  licensing                                                              
decisions,  and takes  civil action  against  persons who  violate                                                              
regulations.  He  advised that the board members  are appointed by                                                              
the  governor, confirmed  by the  legislature,  and its  regulated                                                              
professions   include:    assistant   guides,  Class-A   assistant                                                              
guides,  master  guide outfitters,  registered  guide  outfitters,                                                              
retired  guide outfitters,  and  transporters.   According to  the                                                              
report entitled,  "Economic Impacts of Guided Hunting  in Alaska,"                                                              
for the  Alaska Professional Hunters  Association prepared  by the                                                              
McDowell  Group,  the 2012  research  "Guided Hunting  in  Alaska"                                                              
accounted  for a  total of  2,210 jobs  and $35  million in  total                                                              
labor  income,   including  all  direct,  indirect,   and  induced                                                              
impacts.   Guided  hunting generated  a  total of  $78 million  in                                                              
economic  activity   in  Alaska   in  2012,  and   guided  hunters                                                              
purchased approximately  $2 million  in hunting licenses  and game                                                              
tags.   Due  to an  oversight by  the legislature,  the board  was                                                              
allowed  to  sunset  which caused  catastrophic  effects  and  the                                                              
sunset  contributed to  the  financial difficulties  reflected  in                                                              
the legislative  audit before the committee; however,  in December                                                              
2015 the  board was  reinstated  by the legislature.   He  related                                                              
that the  Big Game Commercial Services  Board is essential  to the                                                              
safety of  hunters, guides, and  transporters coming to  Alaska to                                                              
harvest  its  natural resources  and  for  the management  of  the                                                              
resource itself.   He asked  that the committee  pass HB  254, and                                                              
secure the Big Game Commercial Services Board.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
1:12:01 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  JOSEPHSON  noted that  the  board  was sunset  for                                                              
approximately ten  years, although he doubted the  board wanted to                                                              
sunset,  and inquired  as  to why  the  costs  incurred while  the                                                              
board  was  dissolved to  do  what  would  have been  the  board's                                                              
activities are now the board's problem.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE STUTES deferred to Mr. Dick Rohrer.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
DICK  ROHRER  replied that  the  easy  answer  is that  the  costs                                                              
associated with  the guide industry  licensing, with or  without a                                                              
board, through  the Department of  Commerce, Community  & Economic                                                              
Development (DCCED),  become the responsibility of  the licensees.                                                              
Not everyone  believes that  is exactly fair,  he noted,  but that                                                              
is his understanding of how it has worked in the past.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
1:14:34 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
JANEY  HOVENDEN,  Director, Division  of  Corporations,  Business,                                                              
and Professional  Licensing, Department  of Commerce,  Community &                                                              
Economic Development  (DCCED), noted  the fiscal note  is $22,300,                                                              
which  breaks  down to  costs  to  advertise for  board  meetings.                                                              
These  costs  are  directly  associated   with  administering  the                                                              
board,  which  includes  travel for  face-to-face  meetings,  room                                                              
rental,  and other  fees associated  with booking  travel.   Other                                                              
costs of  the program would still  be borne by the  licensees that                                                              
are not associated directly with board meetings, she explained.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
1:15:47 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  TARR  pointed  to the  presentation  Ms.  Hovenden                                                              
gave to  the Senate Labor  and Commerce Standing  Committee, which                                                              
she  described  as  more  of  an   overview  of  the  Division  of                                                              
Corporations,  Business  and  Professional   Licensing  and  which                                                              
included  program deficits.   She  asked whether  it was  included                                                              
within  this  particular   presentation  in  order   to  give  the                                                              
committee  an  overview  of  the  division's  current  status  and                                                              
challenges,  because it  appears  fees will  overcome the  deficit                                                              
here in the near term.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MS.  HOVENDEN responded  that  she used  the  Big Game  Commercial                                                              
Services  Board as  an example of  the [division's]  new tool  for                                                              
fee  analysis.    The  tool  projected  out  based  on  costs  and                                                              
revenues received  in the past,  and how  by adjusting the  fees a                                                              
determination could  be made as to  how much revenue will  come in                                                              
and whether  it will not  only cover term  expenses but  the carry                                                              
forward  deficit.     The  tool   projects  out  for   three  more                                                              
bienniums, she explained.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
1:17:02 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  TARR  observed   that  by  2020  that  deficit  is                                                              
eliminated  and from  that  point  forward there  would  not be  a                                                              
deficit associated with activities.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MS. HOVENDEN requested Representative Tarr repeat her question.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  TARR pointed  to  the chart  entitled,  "Projected                                                              
Programs and  Surplus," and asked  whether it reflects  the entire                                                              
division, or  the Big  Game Commercial Services  Board.   She said                                                              
that in the  House Health, Education and Social  Services Standing                                                              
Committee  Ms. Hovenden  sounded  like  the division  is  stressed                                                              
with the number of responsibilities and staff.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MS. HOVENDEN  replied that the  presentation in the  House Health,                                                              
Education  and Social Services  Standing  Committee was a  picture                                                              
of the entire  division and all  of the different balances  of all                                                              
of the  different programs.   In  the event  everything stays  the                                                              
same,  the division  anticipates that  all programs  would be  out                                                              
[of  deficit] by  2020.   The anticipation  is that  the Big  Game                                                              
Commercial Services  Board will be out  of deficit by 2019  at the                                                              
latest if the division  stays as aggressively on these  fees as it                                                              
has put into place, she explained.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR TALERICO opened public testimony on HB 254.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
1:19:07 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
THOR STACEY,  Lobbyist, Alaska  Professional Hunters  Association,                                                              
stated  that the  Alaska Professional  Hunters  Association is  in                                                              
strong,  unanimous  support  of   HB  254  because  the  Big  Game                                                              
Commercial  Services Board  is an  essential  institution for  the                                                              
industry.      The   Alaska   Professional   Hunters   Association                                                              
represents hunting  guides in Alaska, it is the  only professional                                                              
association representing  hunting guides and, he  pointed out, the                                                              
general public  owns the  wildlife resources.   He put  forth that                                                              
the  general  public   decided  that  hunting  guides   should  be                                                              
licensed.     Having  a  board   to  assist  and  operate   as  an                                                              
intermediary  between the  division, the  general public,  and the                                                              
industry  as a  whole, is  essential.   He advised  that he  works                                                              
with  the  association  at  board   and  legislative  meetings  on                                                              
hunting guide issues.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  TARR  pointed  to   the  potential  licensing  fee                                                              
increases  and  asked  whether there  was  no  opposition  because                                                              
folks understand  the need to keep  up with the overall  costs for                                                              
the programs.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. STACEY  related that it would  be irresponsible of  him to say                                                              
there is no  opposition, but he  could say that the industry  as a                                                              
whole and the  Alaska Professional Hunters  Association recognizes                                                              
the  responsibility  they  have   in  this  relationship  and  are                                                              
willing to pull their own weight.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
1:21:30 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
JOE KLUTSCH  testified in support of  HB 254.  He related  that he                                                              
has lived in King  Salmon for over 45 years, worked  in commercial                                                              
fishing, sport  fishing, and  guiding, and  is deeply  involved in                                                              
this process.   This  [board] serves  a vital  public function  in                                                              
protecting  the  resources and,  he  pointed out,  statutes  drive                                                              
regulations  and   regulations  are  what  it  takes   to  enforce                                                              
activities  in the  field.   The  board provides  the vehicle  for                                                              
designing  proper  regulations  and  taking  disciplinary  actions                                                              
when necessary.   He offered that there is some  resistance to the                                                              
fee   increases   because  many   guides   are   unaware  of   the                                                              
investigative  costs  incurred  by  the  Department  of  Commerce,                                                              
Community  &  Economic  Development with  the  resultant  doubling                                                              
general  license fees  and  the additional  fees  related to  hunt                                                              
records.   However, he  continued, the people  who care  about the                                                              
profession and the  conservation dimension in this  are willing to                                                              
foot the  bill because  the board  is a  vital instrument  for the                                                              
future  of good game  management  and all members  of the  public,                                                              
not just the guiding industry.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
1:24:29 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
JASON  BUNCH  said  he  supports  HB  254  because  the  Big  Game                                                              
Commercial Services  Board enhances  Alaska's guide  industry with                                                              
consistent regulation  of licenses  and helps to  provide educated                                                              
professionals  representing  Alaska.   In  addition,  he  related,                                                              
when the board  convenes it becomes an invaluable  opportunity for                                                              
the  division,  agency  personnel,   and  licensees  to  meet  and                                                              
discuss  real time  concerns.  Regarding  the  budget, he  said he                                                              
supports  the most  recent increase  of  fees and  looks to  those                                                              
changes to result in a balanced budget.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
1:25:15 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
FRANK BISHOP offered  his support for HB 254, and  advised he is a                                                              
master guide  and has been  a guide for  over 30 years  in Kodiak.                                                              
He said  he agrees with  the previous testifiers  in that  the Big                                                              
Game  Commercial Services  Board  is a  vital asset  to the  guide                                                              
industry and it  is not something to take lightly,  and few guides                                                              
do.  He asked that the committee to let the bill move forward.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
1:26:14 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
PAUL CHERVENAK stated  he fully supports HB 254, and  that he is a                                                              
25 year Alaska master  guide.  He pointed out that  the guides are                                                              
some  of  the  best  stewards  of  the  resource,  they  know  the                                                              
industry  and give a  lot of  their time,  and believe  in helping                                                              
develop standards  to manage the industry  and make it  one of the                                                              
most  professional  around.   The  Big  Game  Commercial  Services                                                              
Board enables this, he remarked.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
1:27:01 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. ROHRER  testified that  he has  lived in Kodiak  approximately                                                              
46 years.  He  urged the committee to support and  pass HB 254 out                                                              
of  committee today.   He  said  he was  a board  member when  the                                                              
board was reinstated  in 2005, and during that time  he paid close                                                              
attention to  the budget.  During  the time periods  2005-2007 the                                                              
budget   looked   good,   but  under   Governor   Sean   Parnell's                                                              
administration  there was  a  new more  professional  look at  the                                                              
budget.  Suddenly  $100,000 of revenue disappeared,  he continued,                                                              
but he does not  know where the money went.  That  was in the past                                                              
and  now  the industry  has  a  good professional  handle  on  the                                                              
budget,  budget reporting,  and  understands its  status.   It  is                                                              
anticipated the board  will be out of its deficit  position within                                                              
the next three years before it comes up for sunset again.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
1:29:06 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
KAREN  POLLEY, Vice  Chair, Big  Game  Commercial Services  Board,                                                              
related she has  been the Vice Chair and Public  Representative of                                                              
the  Big Game  Commercial Services  Board  for approximately  five                                                              
years.  She said  the guides are concerned about  the continuation                                                              
of  that  resource which  is  a  public  resource, and  the  board                                                              
strives  to  be  offer  the  guides   and  people  an  educational                                                              
opportunity each  time they attend  the meetings.  The  guides and                                                              
transporters participate  in committee meetings that  help develop                                                              
the regulations  that govern  their actions.   The board  staff is                                                              
paid  by  the   Department  of  Commerce,  Community   &  Economic                                                              
Development.   The board has  many cases, including  approximately                                                              
49  people  on probation;  the  board  recently closed  51  cases,                                                              
which are  primarily by consent  agendas - people who  agree there                                                              
was a  violation and  are willing  to accept  the results  of that                                                              
violation;  plus there  are open  cases.   The budget  has been  a                                                              
concern and  she followed  Mr. Rohrer in  the process  of studying                                                              
the budget to  understand how the indirect costs  and direct costs                                                              
for operations  were  impacting the  board and  the deficit.   She                                                              
related that  the board  has been  aware it  needed to  raise fees                                                              
and as a result  of the audit the board is doubling  fees to close                                                              
the deficit and  move forward, which will cost the  people who use                                                              
the  resource.   The  board itself  is  made up  of  a variety  of                                                              
people  representing different  organizations,  and she  expressed                                                              
that she is proud to be a public member of that organization.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
1:31:44 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   TARR   advised   there   is  another   piece   of                                                              
legislation  related  to  restitution  and  asked  Ms.  Polley  to                                                              
generally comment  on what the type  of open cases the  board has,                                                              
and whether there are trends in the cases.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MS.  POLLEY replied  that there  are  a variety  of violations,  a                                                              
significant   number  being   sub-legal   animals  and   paperwork                                                              
violations.   The board tries  to handle the disciplinary  actions                                                              
according to the  intensity and impact of what  is happening, such                                                              
that  sub-legal animals  directly  affect the  resource, and  with                                                              
paperwork violations  the board tends  to ask the violator  to not                                                              
do it again,  to have an understanding of  their responsibilities,                                                              
and that  they handle the paperwork  obligations.  When  the board                                                              
actually  removes licenses,  they  are often  criminal cases  that                                                              
have been  prosecuted and the board  performs the final  action of                                                              
removing the license.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
1:33:35 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
FRED  PARADY,   Deputy  Commissioner,   Department  of   Commerce,                                                              
Community &  Economic Development  (DCCED), explained that  in his                                                              
role  as  deputy  commissioner   he  supervises  the  Division  of                                                              
Corporations, Business,  and Professional Licensing.   He said the                                                              
department  supports the extension  of the  sunset included  in HB                                                              
254 and appreciates  the quality of the 2015  audit by Legislative                                                              
Budget and Audit.   He paraphrased from the conclusion  section of                                                              
the audit, which states:                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     Overall,  the audit  concludes  the  board has  provided                                                                   
     reasonable  assurance   that  individuals   licensed  to                                                                   
     guide  and/or   outfit  hunts,  as  well   as  transport                                                                   
     hunters  to  and  from hunt  locations,  in  Alaska  are                                                                   
     qualified   to  do  so.     Additionally,  the   board's                                                                   
     regulation  and licensing  of  qualified guides,  guide-                                                                   
     outfitters  and   transporter  benefited   the  public's                                                                   
     safety and  safeguarded the state's wildlife  resources.                                                                   
     In  recognition that  the  board reported  an  operating                                                                   
     deficit  of over  $1 million  as of April  30, 2015,  we                                                                   
     recommend  extending the  board only  three years  under                                                                   
     the  condition that  the board  demonstrate the  ability                                                                   
     to  address its  deficit during  the legislative  sunset                                                                   
     review   process.      The   board   believes   proposed                                                                   
     regulations  that  increase  licensing fees  and  create                                                                   
     new record processing  fees will address its  deficit by                                                                   
     the  end of FY17.   If  the board  fails to  demonstrate                                                                   
     the  ability  to  address   its  operating  deficit,  we                                                                   
     recommend it be considered for termination.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
1:34:51 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. PARADY  turned  to the four  recommendations.   He noted  that                                                              
the  first   recommendation  concerned   public  notice.     Those                                                              
policies have  now been rewritten  and those activities  have been                                                              
consolidated  to   a  single  person  to  ensure   the  division's                                                              
accountability to notify the public.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR.   PARADY    said   the    second   recommendation    concerned                                                              
investigations.   Chief Angela Birt  has been the  division's lead                                                              
investigator   since    2014   and   tightened    the   division's                                                              
accountability  in  the  investigation  processes.    Chief  Birt,                                                              
after  identifying   the  length  of   time  a  file   might  sit,                                                              
instituted a  tickler system to  give notice to  the investigators                                                              
they have a  gap, which is often  due to a file being  referred to                                                              
the Alaska  State Troopers or somewhere  else and the  division is                                                              
awaiting action.   The division  then made  the gap period  a core                                                              
element in  its performance  evaluation of  it investigators,  and                                                              
also included  it in the quarterly  meetings where case  files are                                                              
reviewed to be certain the division is keeping up.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR.  PARADY  turned  to the  third  recommendation  of  the  audit                                                              
regarding  fees  and advised  that  fees have  been  substantially                                                              
increased.   At the  close of  fiscal year,  June 30,  2015, there                                                              
was  a $1.1  million deficit.    In December,  mid-year of  fiscal                                                              
year  2016,   that  deficit  is   just  under  $900,000,   so  the                                                              
profession  has closed  the  deficit by  $235,000.   He  explained                                                              
that  these licenses  are on  a two  year renewal  cycle, and  the                                                              
division is anticipating  closing the gap by $535,000  in this two                                                              
year cycle,  and the other  $535,000 in  the next two  year cycle,                                                              
thereby erasing the  deficit by the close of FY 2019.   He related                                                              
that it is worth  noting that the board is operating  in the black                                                              
today.   That deficit  grew because  it was  not being  closed and                                                              
all the while it  was being added to because of  being in the red.                                                              
By operating  in the  black the division  is reducing  the deficit                                                              
and the board is to be commended for its action in that area.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. PARADY  said the fourth  recommendation concerned  transporter                                                              
licensing  and  updating the  form  which  is  now complete.    In                                                              
closing,  he   stated  the  board   is  necessary  to   guide  the                                                              
profession  and  division in  the  regulation of  the  profession.                                                              
Whether  the  board   is  in  existence  or  not,   the  licensing                                                              
requirements  are  still  on  the  books and  are  required.    He                                                              
stressed  that  this  is  a  complex   specialized  area  and  the                                                              
division  appreciates  the  board's services  to  the  profession,                                                              
division, and citizens of Alaska.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
1:37:50 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MARK  RICHARDS, Executive  Director, Resident  Hunters of  Alaska,                                                              
stated that his  organization opposes HB 254 and  believes the Big                                                              
Game Commercial  Services  Board should  be sunset.   He said  his                                                              
organization  is  concerned  with   issues  that  affect  resident                                                              
hunters.   He  said the  Big Game  Commercial  Services Board  was                                                              
originally  the guide board  intended to  regulate guides,  it was                                                              
never  intended to  regulate private  landowners, small  business,                                                              
or resident  hunters.   At the last  Big Game Commercial  Services                                                              
Board meeting  he said he testified  to federal aviation  case law                                                              
and  that  the  entire  transporter  system  is  unconstitutional.                                                              
Subsequently, the  board reviewed the  case law and voted  to send                                                              
a review to  the Department of Law.   That review has  not started                                                              
yet,  but if  case law  is  correct that  would  throw the  entire                                                              
transporter system out  the window.  In an effort  to relieve some                                                              
of the  board's debt, without public  notice and without  a quorum                                                              
it added  a $50  fee to  every air taxi  that had  chosen to  be a                                                              
transporter -  for every mandated  hunt activity report  turned in                                                              
the  transporters then  received  a retroactive  notice that  they                                                              
owed  this fee.    He remarked  that many  transporters  testified                                                              
that they  will no longer  be a transporter  if they have  to have                                                              
the  fee,  they will  add  it  on  to their  charters  and  charge                                                              
residents  for this  fee.   Resident  Hunters  of Alaska  believes                                                              
that many transporters  will get out and then those  fees will not                                                              
be involved.  Guides  have tried to regulate hunters  such that if                                                              
a  person owned  a cabin  on a  lagoon  in Kodiak  and rented  out                                                              
skiffs, the board  passed regulations where that person  had to be                                                              
a big game guide  outfitter in order to rent those  skiffs or rent                                                              
tents, he said.   The board decided that this person  could not do                                                              
that if "quote,  in the field, unquote"; the person  would have to                                                              
go  to the  nearest airport  in  Kodiak to  be able  to rent  that                                                              
skiff out.  He  opined that this board should  stick to regulating                                                              
guides, not  do things that affect  resident hunters.   He posited                                                              
that  the debt  will never  be paid  off  because the  transporter                                                              
issue will go out the window and the $50 fee will disappear.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
1:40:47 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
EDDIE GRASSER,  Lobbyist, Safari  International, advised  that for                                                              
the  most  part  he  is  representing  Safari  International,  and                                                              
testified  in  support  of  HB 254.    He  explained  that  Safari                                                              
International  has over 3,000  members in  Alaska, plus  worldwide                                                              
membership.   He  opined  that in  order  to  have safe  reputable                                                              
hunting opportunities  for people choosing to hire  a guide, there                                                              
must  be an  avenue  to  ensure  those people  are  professionally                                                              
vetted.   Mr. Grasser  said he  has been  involved in  hunting for                                                              
over 60 years,  with 35 years  as a professional, although  he has                                                              
not guided since  2001.  He remarked that he is  a resident hunter                                                              
who  believes that  a  well regulated  industry  is beneficial  to                                                              
resident  hunters.  Mr.  Grasser said  he has  hunted in  areas of                                                              
the state  where transporters were  dumping so many people  in the                                                              
field that it was  like a zoo, and there should  be some mechanism                                                              
for  regulating  or  ascertaining   that  there  are  professional                                                              
levels  within  that industry.    He  commented  that this  is  an                                                              
industry  where  many things  are  at stake,  including  potential                                                              
risk  of life and  limb by  being out  there in  the elements  and                                                              
many times  away from being rescued  if something goes  wrong.  He                                                              
asked the  committee whether  it prefers  an unregulated  industry                                                              
with dangerous aspects  to it, or a board  regulating professional                                                              
standards.   Pointing to the Board  of Barbers &  Hairdressers, he                                                              
noted that no life or limb is in jeopardy in those professions.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
1:43:07 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
ROD  ARNO, Executive  Director,  Alaska Outdoor  Council,  offered                                                              
the  Alaska  Outdoor  Council's  (AOC)  support  for  HB  254  and                                                              
extension of the  termination of the Big Game  Commercial Services                                                              
Board.   He  said  AOC supported  the  board  during its  original                                                              
creation and  creation after  the sunset.   Federal land  managers                                                              
are  putting more  pressure  on the  guiding  industry on  federal                                                              
lands  and it  is causing  more  conflict on  the available  state                                                              
lands  for all  Alaska  residents  to hunt  as  well  as having  a                                                              
regulated industry.   He [disagreed] with the  idea of terminating                                                              
this  board  which   has  been  trying  to  come   to  grips  with                                                              
regulating  the  guide,  air  taxi,  and  charter  industry.    He                                                              
reiterated that  the federal land  managers are trying  to exclude                                                              
the use of the  industry as well as personal use  and it will only                                                              
be compounded in the future.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
1:45:00 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
KRIS CURTIS,  Legislative Auditor,  Legislative Budget  and Audit,                                                              
Alaska  State Legislature,  advised  that  Legislative Budget  and                                                              
Audit performed  the sunset audit  and reviewed whether  the board                                                              
was  serving  the  public's  interest and  whether  it  should  be                                                              
extended.   It was found that  the board was serving  the public's                                                              
interest and  therefore a  conditional extension was  recommended.                                                              
It  was  conditional  upon the  board  demonstrating  during  this                                                              
legislative review  process that it  had the capacity  and ability                                                              
to address  its $1  million deficit.   At the  point of  the audit                                                              
last  August, there  were proposed  regulations  to institute  new                                                              
fees,  and specifically  new  fees on  hunt  records and  activity                                                              
reports, which  is a new type of  fee for the board.   Because the                                                              
fees were proposed,  her office had no assurance at  the time that                                                              
they  would  be  adopted,  so her  office  made  this  conditional                                                              
recommendation because  she envisioned that those  regulations may                                                              
be  adopted by  this  point.   She  noted she  has  not yet  heard                                                              
testimony  to that  effect and  a good  question to  ask would  be                                                              
whether those fees  are officially in place.   Her office reviewed                                                              
the  proposed fees  last summer,  did some  number crunching,  and                                                              
concluded t  it was  reasonable that if  the fees were  instituted                                                              
they  would  address  the  deficit  within  the  next  few  years.                                                              
Because Mr.  Parady addressed the  four recommendations,  she said                                                              
she would not go into detail unless there were questions.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
1:46:47 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  TARR referred  to  the recommendation  to  improve                                                              
the  timeliness  of  investigations  and asked  for  Ms.  Curtis's                                                              
thoughts  on  that component  because  it  had been  mentioned  as                                                              
something making it more costly.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MS. CURTIS replied  that handling the cost of  investigations is a                                                              
problem  for all  of  the  boards because  it  is  hard to  budget                                                              
prospectively on  how much those  investigations will cost  and to                                                              
incorporate  those costs as  far as  the fees.   It creates  highs                                                              
and  lows, and  the  occupations have  a  hard time  understanding                                                              
when those  fee increases  happen, she  explained, and  this board                                                              
is no  different as  it does have  a high case  load.   Her office                                                              
tested  25 cases  and  found that  17  of the  25  had periods  of                                                              
inactivity,  ranging from five  months to  five years,  which were                                                              
extensive and  resulted in  the recommendation.   During  the 2011                                                              
audit,  her office  noted there  were numerous  problems with  the                                                              
investigative   process,   and  this   time   around  they   found                                                              
improvements  and  only  identified  timeliness as  an  issue  for                                                              
correction, she remarked.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
1:48:08 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SEATON asked  whether  the  transporter issue  was                                                              
reviewed as part of the audit.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MS.  CURTIS  asked  Representative   Seaton  to  zero  in  on  the                                                              
transporter issue.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON  referred to previous testimony  wherein the                                                              
transporter  fees  were  enacted  at a  board  meeting  without  a                                                              
quorum  and public  notice, and  he noted that  the testifier  had                                                              
statutory  questions.   He asked  whether that  issue was  part of                                                              
the audit.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MS.  CURTIS  answered  that  the  fees would  have  been  part  of                                                              
regulation changes  and she would  expect those to go  through the                                                              
standard process,  and her  office has had  no problem  in looking                                                              
at  any changes  the  board made  during the  audit  period.   The                                                              
board complied  with the regulatory  public notices  and comments,                                                              
but those fee  changes would have happened after  the audit period                                                              
so she said she couldn't address those specifically.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
1:49:20 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR TALERICO  requested Mr. Parady to comment  with regard to                                                              
the fees.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR.  PARADY  stated  the  fees  were  properly  noticed  and  were                                                              
adopted  after completion  of the  audit by  Ms. Curtis's  office.                                                              
So,  they  were adopted  this  fall  and  are  in place  for  this                                                              
renewal  cycle.   Given  the  transporter fee  is  new  and as  it                                                              
settles in  and people become adapted  to it, it may  be necessary                                                              
to  come back  before the  board and  consider further  regulatory                                                              
change to  address the concerns  expressed earlier; those  kind of                                                              
concerns  happen with anything  that is  new.   He then  echoed an                                                              
earlier  testifier  that it  is  a  well regulated  industry  that                                                              
serves  resident hunters  as well  as non-resident  hunters.   Mr.                                                              
Parady  noted that  the proposed  conditional  extension of  three                                                              
years instead of  five puts it on the path to  erasing the deficit                                                              
and also  provides the  opportunity for  legislative oversight  in                                                              
moving forward.   He reiterated that the regulations  were adopted                                                              
and pointed  out that this industry  provides 2,000 jobs  and is a                                                              
vital part  of the  tourism sector of  Alaska's economy,  which is                                                              
one  of   the  brighter  spots   in  the  dismal  news   that  the                                                              
legislature is currently coping with.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  TALERICO  closed  public  testimony  after  ascertaining                                                              
that no one else wished to testify.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
1:51:44 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  JOSEPHSON  referred to  the  entire board  process                                                              
and related  that he was struck  by a system that  requires boards                                                              
and commissions to  self-finance.  Although, this  process is good                                                              
in the  abstract, except when  there is  a small membership  and a                                                              
"bad apple,"  then the fees spike  and the others have  to pay for                                                              
that  investigation  and litigation.    In  addition,  he said  he                                                              
identified a number  of times in the legislative  budget and audit                                                              
process  where there  was a greater  public interest  served  by a                                                              
good investigation  without  making fees  escalate in some  unfair                                                              
manner.   In  other words,  this is  a comment  for the  committee                                                              
members  and he  opined that  there are  many governmental  things                                                              
the government  doesn't recoup,  and for  some reason  with boards                                                              
and  commissions  the legislature  deems  they  must fund  all  of                                                              
their activities,  and these people  are volunteering  their time.                                                              
He acknowledged  that this is  not the right  year to have  a fund                                                              
cover  overages but  he has  seen  this happen  repeatedly and  it                                                              
appears  illogical at  some level.   He  added that  this was  his                                                              
first lesson  in learning  how departments  jealously guard  their                                                              
time.   He related the  phenomenon wherein  a member of  the board                                                              
calls the  department, the  department notes  the call  lasted ten                                                              
minutes and then,  because "clerk one" responded  to the question,                                                              
the  department bills  the board  for its  time.   Even though  it                                                              
gives the  legislature a  good accounting  mechanism to  determine                                                              
who is  costing what,  he said his  question is  that this  is the                                                              
State of Alaska and isn't everyone in this together.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
1:54:20 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE TARR  thanked the witnesses who supported  the fees                                                              
and their  willingness  to pay an  increased  fee to help  support                                                              
the board's  activities.   She said she  admires those  people and                                                              
groups  for   standing  up  and   helping  the  legislature   find                                                              
solutions.   This  is important  to tourism  and good  management,                                                              
she said, and she appreciates people's willingness to help out.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
1:54:53 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE HERRON  noted that he hunts within  his home region                                                              
and not in  other states, and  remembers the days when  Alaska did                                                              
not  have the  oversight and  how it  became a  rather wild  place                                                              
with people  coming into the state.   He opined that not  only for                                                              
big  game  outfitters   and  transporters,  there  has   to  be  a                                                              
legitimate and  strong oversight because  it's too easy to  do too                                                              
many things.   He reminded the committee that  recently there have                                                              
been  high  profile news  articles  about  how people  have  taken                                                              
advantage  of  Alaska.    The  financial  fees  are  going  to  be                                                              
addressed,  this is  an  oversight process  that  is important  to                                                              
Alaska, and he supports the legislation, he said.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
1:56:16 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  NAGEAK moved  to report  HB  254 out  of committee  with                                                              
individual  recommendations  and  the accompanying  fiscal  notes.                                                              
There  being no  objection, HB  254  was reported  from the  House                                                              
Resources Standing Committee.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
1:56:39 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
The committee took an at-ease from 1:56 p.m. to 2:02 p.m.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
              HB 177-KING SALMON TAGS AND DESIGNS                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
2:02:09 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR TALERICO  announced that the  final order of  business is                                                              
HOUSE  BILL NO.  177, "An  Act relating  to king  salmon tags  and                                                              
king salmon tag designs."                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
2:02:21 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
JIM  POUND,   Staff,  Representative  Wes  Keller,   Alaska  State                                                              
Legislature,  described  HB 177  as  a small  step  in looking  at                                                              
Alaska's  economy,  in particular  fishing.   The  legislature  is                                                              
looking  for increased  funding  and this  bill  would provide  an                                                              
opportunity  to help  fish enhancement,  an area  some people  may                                                              
eventually  start looking  at to  make cuts  to.   The bill  deals                                                              
with  the  Alaska  King  Salmon   stamps,  which  are  already  in                                                              
existence,  and it would  convert today's  stamp into  an artist's                                                              
rendition  as   a  way  for   artists  and  collectors   to  start                                                              
maintaining and  keeping them in  their collections.   In addition                                                              
to the stamps,  he advised, posters and prints  are envisioned for                                                              
sale and the selling  of these items could be handled  through the                                                              
Alaska Department  of Fish & Game  (ADF&G), local art  stores, and                                                              
charter boat captains,  the same way as they sell  the stamps.  He                                                              
said that the  artist's intellectual property rights  would be two                                                              
years for  the original art, the  original art would then  go back                                                              
to  the artist  and he/she  could  sell that  art  in addition  to                                                              
whatever  the artist  was  paid  by the  state.    There would  be                                                              
potential for  increasing some funds  for fish enhancement  in the                                                              
state, he noted.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
2:04:20 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SEATON requested  further information  with regard                                                              
to the artist being paid by the state.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR.  POUND  replied that  it  would  be a  contractual  agreement,                                                              
similar  to the Alaska  Railroad,  almost like  going out  to bid.                                                              
He  deferred  to Stephanie  Wheeler  who  she handles  the  Alaska                                                              
Railroad, but added  that there would be a payment  from the state                                                              
for the rights to the art.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
2:05:02 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
STEPHANIE  WHEELER,   Communications  Officer,   Alaska  Railroad,                                                              
explained  that the  Alaska  Railroad has  an  annual art  program                                                              
whereby it  solicits artists,  Alaskan artists  in particular,  to                                                              
submit sketches  for a  piece of  artwork featuring the  railroad.                                                              
Based upon  those sketches the  Alaska Railroad personnel  selects                                                              
an artist and that  artist is paid $3,000 to provide  the artwork.                                                              
The Alaska  Railroad does  retain ownership  of the artwork  which                                                              
is used  to create merchandise in  addition to posters  and prints                                                              
and a  matching lapel pin.   The costs  include paying  the artist                                                              
and printing costs  of approximately $10,000.   After advertising,                                                              
production costs,  and artist payment, about  $15,000-$20,000 goes                                                              
into it  each year.   The railroad does  recoup most of  that cost                                                              
in the sale of  prints, posters, and merchandise  through its gift                                                              
shop, she said.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SEATON referred  the statement  that the  railroad                                                              
recoups "most" of the cost and asked whether it is a net loss.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MS. WHEELER answered  it is not a  money maker as it is  more of a                                                              
public relations benefit and the railroad basically breaks even.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
2:07:17 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  TARR asked  whether the Alaska  Railroad  has ever                                                              
considered  doing  this  as  a contest  rather  than  a  financial                                                              
relationship.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MS.  WHEELER  replied  that  artists  are  typically  not  wealthy                                                              
individuals  and therefore paying  them some  type of  stipend for                                                              
their artwork  seemed to be the  right thing to do.   The railroad                                                              
also gives  the artist a few  prints and posters for  the artist's                                                              
use, but  the Alaska Railroad owns  the artwork so the  only value                                                              
the  artist receives  is  the $3,000,  including  the prestige  in                                                              
creating the Alaska  Railroad's annual artwork.   She described it                                                              
as a  show piece  that people  collect and  noted that  the Alaska                                                              
Railroad's  artwork is  seen in  offices around  the state  and in                                                              
the  Lower 48.   There  is the  value  of being  recognized as  an                                                              
annual  art winner,  there is  a contest  element to  it, and  the                                                              
Alaska Railroad  has been at  $3,000 for over  a decade so  it's a                                                              
pretty low payment, she related.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE TARR  referred to  the fiscal note  and anticipated                                                              
the prints  would be sold  at $100 each.   She asked if  amount is                                                              
comparable to the price the railroad charges per print.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MS. WHEELER  reported that the  Alaska Railroad makes  750 prints,                                                              
which are  signed and numbered, and  has sold the prints  for $50-                                                              
$55 for  the last  ten years.   Posters  are typically  printed on                                                              
smaller  less expensive  paper  and are  sold  for $25-$30,  which                                                              
captures a different  market such as children.   The matching pins                                                              
are $5,  and merchandise such  as mugs  and ornaments are  sold by                                                              
the gift shop for $10-$20.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
2:10:20 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON  asked whether it would make  any difference                                                              
in  the  way the  Alaska  Railroad  conducts  its business  if  it                                                              
didn't  retain   ownership  of  the  artwork  and   the  licensing                                                              
agreement did not exceed two years.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MS. WHEELER  answered that the  Alaska Railroad retains  ownership                                                              
of the  artwork so that  it can create  merchandise well  into the                                                              
future.    She  reiterated  that the  artist  receives  $3,000  in                                                              
compensation  and the  Alaska  Railroad keeps  the  artwork.   The                                                              
railroad does not  license the artwork for two years  like what is                                                              
being proposed under HB 177.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SEATON  questioned  that  if the  Alaska  Railroad                                                              
were to agree to  a license not to exceed two  years, whether that                                                              
would make a difference in its potential revenue stream.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MS. WHEELER  replied that the Alaska  Railroad has found  value in                                                              
the  manner in  which it  has been  doing things  because it  does                                                              
have gift  shops.   The railroad  is free to  use that  artwork in                                                              
other ways  from year  to year,  as opposed to  going back  to the                                                              
artist and paying  more if it wants to use the  artwork.  She said                                                              
she is  unsure whether  it would  make a  difference but  suspects                                                              
that the railroad  came to do it  in this manner because  this way                                                              
has the most benefit to the Alaska Railroad.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON  noted he is  trying to balance  the version                                                              
[proposed by HB 177].                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
2:13:05 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE HERRON  asked why the  state wouldn't want  to keep                                                              
the art  design such  that in the  future the  fish and  game fund                                                              
could have anniversary prints and collections.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. POUND  replied  he went with  two years  because he  estimated                                                              
that  was  the  shelf  life for  prints  and  posters  and,  after                                                              
speaking  with  local  artists  they  are used  to  that  type  of                                                              
timeframe.   He  opined that  it  was a  way that  the actual  bid                                                              
could be much lower than $3,000, initially.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  HERRON asked why  the state would  want to  let go                                                              
of  property   that  could  be   valuable  in  a  few   years  for                                                              
collections.   He  asked  whether  the state  wants  to create  an                                                              
archive that could be valuable years in the future.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. POUND answered he is not married to the two-year clause.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
2:15:09 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CHENAULT  asked whether the discussion  is about an                                                              
actual salmon stamp or a postage stamp.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. POUND  responded that it  is a stamp  attached to  the fishing                                                              
license.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CHENAULT noted it does say U.S. postage stamp.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR.  POUND explained  that it  was an  example of  what the  stamp                                                              
might look  like without  the U.S.  postal reference  to it  as it                                                              
may read the State of Alaska King Fishing Stamp.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  CHENAULT noted  he  likes the  first example,  but                                                              
cannot see where  the other two examples have anything  to do with                                                              
salmon.   He  then addressed  the  fiscal note  and asked  whether                                                              
there is an estimate as to what the income might be.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR. POUND  replied he  does not  have an  estimate but  posited it                                                              
would  be  higher  than that  of  the  Alaska  Railroad  primarily                                                              
because  there are  tourists from  the tour ships  getting  on the                                                              
charter  boats, as  well as tourists  fishing  on the Kenai  River                                                              
with  charter  boats with  an  opportunity  to sell  the  posters.                                                              
Unlike the Alaska  Railroad, the state would not be  confined to a                                                              
gift shop.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
2:17:03 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  TARR observed from  the fiscal  note that it  is a                                                              
breakeven proposition  and surmised that  the state would  have to                                                              
sell  at least  500  prints  to  get to  the  cost.   She  offered                                                              
concern as to whether  that number would be sold  and surmised the                                                              
railroad has other  smaller items in addition to the  prints.  She                                                              
asked  whether   that  would   be  an   option  and  whether   the                                                              
legislature  needs  to specifically  give  that  option.   In  the                                                              
event there  is a good  design but it  is not necessarily  selling                                                              
many prints, she  said she would want the ability  to make it into                                                              
something such as  a greeting card or magnet or other  gifts to be                                                              
certain it is not a money loser.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR.  POUND agreed  and said  it  is something  that is  negotiated                                                              
between the artist  and the department.  Once  the department owns                                                              
the art,  he explained, it  can do with it  as it pleases  for the                                                              
next two years, as the bill is currently written.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  CHENAULT observed  the costs  for services  in the                                                              
fiscal  note would  include a  contract with  an artist  receiving                                                              
between [$2,500  and $5,000] per  year, and surmised that  that is                                                              
a guess  by not having  the program in  place and not  knowing the                                                              
actual costs.   He pointed out that  that is more than  the $3,000                                                              
the Alaska Railroad usually pays its artists.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
2:19:22 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  JOHNSON  asked   whether  the  discussion  is  the                                                              
actual stamp that goes on the back of a license.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. POUND answered correct.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON surmised it is similar to a duck stamp.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. POUND agreed.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  JOHNSON opined that  "the federal wildlife"  makes                                                              
more  by selling  duck  stamps as  posters  and  where the  actual                                                              
stamp is below  the poster itself.   "They make more money  off of                                                              
that," he said, "than they do off the actual people hunting."                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR.  POUND agreed  that that  potential  is there  and people  who                                                              
will never  come to Alaska will  actually purchase the  posters in                                                              
an online scenario.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  JOHNSON expressed  his  concern for  the two  year                                                              
limit  because if  the department  does not  own the  art work  it                                                              
will miss out because  down the road the artwork  will become more                                                              
valuable and  can be reprinted  in the form  of a poster.   In the                                                              
event the  department buys  the artwork it  should own  the rights                                                              
to  it, although,  the artist  can  retain certain  rights but  he                                                              
would hate  to see the department  pay for it and have  someone go                                                              
out and create  these posters, buy  the stamps, and the  big money                                                              
is on the  backend.  He said  he would like the department  to own                                                              
the artwork, have  a contest like with the duck  stamp, the winner                                                              
receives $3,000, and the department owns it in perpetuity.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR.  POUND said  he  has no  objection  to that  amendment  coming                                                              
forth.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
2:21:41 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE TARR  referred to HB 177, page 1,  lines 6-8, which                                                              
read:    "The  department  shall make  stamps  available  for  the                                                              
creation of  king salmon  limited edition  prints and  provide for                                                              
the  sale of  stamps and  prints to  the public."   She  suggested                                                              
that  the language  limits the  opportunity  to only  a print  and                                                              
inquired as to whether  it might be appropriate to  read "or other                                                              
products"  or something  similar that  would provide  flexibility.                                                              
For example,  she pointed  out that  Director Ben Ellis,  Division                                                              
of  Parks  and  Outdoor Recreation,  advised  there  is  a  strong                                                              
interest in  T-shirts, hats, and  sweatshirts with the  state park                                                              
emblem, which is a popular design.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR. POUND  replied that his  goal on this  legislation is  to come                                                              
up with  funds for fish enhancement  and he appreciates  that this                                                              
is a commercial type enterprise making money.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
2:23:12 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SEATON referred  to HB 177,  page 1, lines  14-15,                                                              
"A contract under  this subsection is governed by  AS 36.30 (State                                                              
Procurement  Code)," and asked  whether there  is anything  in the                                                              
State  Procurement  Code on  art  that will  make  it a  difficult                                                              
process.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR.  POUND  replied he  doesn't  believe  there  is, but  that  he                                                              
hadn't considered that aspect of the State Procurement Code.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
2:24:18 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
KEVIN  BROOKS, Deputy  Commissioner, Office  of the  Commissioner,                                                              
Alaska Department of  Fish & Game (ADF&G), referred  to the fiscal                                                              
note and clarified that the number for a contract is $2,500-                                                                    
$5,000, a range that would encompass $3,000.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  CHENAULT  responded  that  if  he  said  a  larger                                                              
amount, he certainly didn't mean it.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
2:25:02 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. BROOKS  advised that the department  based the fiscal  note on                                                              
the  assumption of  selling 500  prints  and 1,000  posters.   The                                                              
department  expects there  would be  some standup  costs given  it                                                              
employs  biologists  and does  not  have a  marketing  department.                                                              
The fiscal  note reflects  it would  be a  general fund  cost with                                                              
the program  subsequently  generating revenue  that would  pay for                                                              
itself.   He noted that  the department  ran a duck  stamp program                                                              
from the mid-1980s  to 2009, when it was discontinued  for lack of                                                              
a market.   This  program used  to be  a real  big deal, but  over                                                              
time  that  market dried  up  and  there  are  only a  handful  of                                                              
printing  firms  that  will take  on  this  type  of thing.    The                                                              
expectation  would be  that a  new  program would  probably see  a                                                              
surge of  sales in the  event it could  be marketed.   He recalled                                                              
for the duck stamp  program in 1985 there was a  big build up with                                                              
a lot  of advertising.   All 50 states were  doing it, with  a lot                                                              
of sales early on,  but in the last years of  it there was $5,000-                                                              
$10,000  in   sales  on  the   various  items.     The  department                                                              
appreciates  the intent  and effort  because it  has been  cutting                                                              
its  budget with  programs  going away,  and  anything that  could                                                              
generate revenue  the department is  certainly open to.   However,                                                              
he said,  the department is not  as optimistic about the  level of                                                              
revenue that  might be generated  from the program on  a sustained                                                              
basis going into the future.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
2:27:08 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SEATON reminded  the committee  that he had  asked                                                              
about the  State Procurement Code.   He referred to page  2, lines                                                              
1-2, "All costs  incurred under this section may be  paid from the                                                              
fish and  game fund."   He  said he wants  to be  sure that  is an                                                              
allowable use of the fund.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR.  BROOKS responded  that  the  state procurement  is  typically                                                              
when  the department  is  buying  something  and it  provides  for                                                              
competition  wherein  the  department  would  put a  bid  out  and                                                              
accept those  bids.  He  said he doesn't  see anything  that would                                                              
restrict the department's  ability to do that by  reference of the                                                              
State Procurement Code in Title 36.30.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SEATON  noted  his understanding  of  the  bidding                                                              
procedure wherein  people bid  for the amount  of money  they want                                                              
to sell something  to the state.   In this case,  essentially, the                                                              
department  will say the  winner would  receive $3,000  or $5,000,                                                              
and then  the department  would choose  from among the  applicants                                                              
based on  an artist's selection  or the commissioner's  selection.                                                              
He asked whether that is the way it would work.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. BROOKS  answered he envisions  it to be something  along those                                                              
lines.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SEATON, regarding  that the  costs incurred  under                                                              
this  section may  be  paid from  the fish  and  game fund,  asked                                                              
whether that is an allowable use of the fund.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. BROOKS  replied that  typically the  department uses  the fish                                                              
and game  fund to benefit sport  anglers.  The  department matches                                                              
Dingell-Johnson  Sport Fish  Restoration  funding,  which has  its                                                              
own  requirements and  has to  benefit the  resources and  provide                                                              
opportunity.    There   is  a  relationship  there,   but  if  the                                                              
legislature appropriated  it for that  purpose he thinks  it could                                                              
legally  be done.   But,  he continued,  the  department does  not                                                              
currently have an art program using fish and game funds.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
2:29:23 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE TARR  referred to page 1, lines  11-12, which read:                                                              
"The  department  may only  consider  designs submitted  by  state                                                              
residents," and asked  whether there are issues  with limiting who                                                              
the department accepts designs from.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR. BROOKS answered  that the department can set  its requirements                                                              
in a bid document to limit it to Alaska residents.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  TARR   referred  to  page  1,  lines   6-8,  [text                                                              
provided  previously] and  reiterated  that  adding the  language,                                                              
"or other  products" might  be important given  the demise  of the                                                              
duck stamp  program.  The state  wouldn't have to become  a retail                                                              
distributor,  but,  in  a  more   real  time  analysis,  it  could                                                              
determine whether  money is being  recouped and coffee  mugs could                                                              
be  easily  made.   She  asked  whether  the department  would  be                                                              
interested in  that type  of flexibility or  whether it  is beyond                                                              
the scope of what it wants to take on.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR. BROOKS  pointed out  that the  department's personnel  are not                                                              
marketers,  they  are  biologists  by  trade  and  the  department                                                              
manages fisheries  and game populations, although,  currently many                                                              
of  those programs  are  being cut  through  different efforts  in                                                              
trying  to live within  its means.   The  department would  assign                                                              
marketing duties  to staff,  and not add  staff, but it  could add                                                              
months to  a seasonal  employee.   In the event  the sum  total of                                                              
mugs, cards, stamps,  and prints could generate money  to help the                                                              
resources  of  the  state  and  help  the  department  manage  the                                                              
fisheries  it would  be open  to doing  it, not  wanting to  limit                                                              
itself.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  TALERICO opened  public testimony,  but closed  it after                                                              
ascertaining no one wished to testify.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
2:32:10 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR TALERICO  stated he would  hold the bill given  there was                                                              
a question about the terms and the two year wording.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
2:32:29 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON  related that  prior to being  a legislator                                                              
he was  a marketing person and  advised that the  opportunity here                                                              
is  not  with  creating  the  state's  own  division  to  do  this                                                              
marketing,  but creating an  ability to  generate the  artwork and                                                              
license it  to someone and generate  the money off the  license as                                                              
opposed  to  actually  doing  the products.    He  suggested  that                                                              
several  places come  to mind  such as  the people  that make  the                                                              
gold  coins; there  could be  a salmon  coin and  the state  would                                                              
receive a certain  percentage off of everything sold.   He said he                                                              
does  not want  ADF&G  getting  into  the marketing  business  and                                                              
agreed  ADF&G  doesn't have  the  people.   The  licensing  aspect                                                              
could  be done  through the  Department of  Commerce, Community  &                                                              
Economic Development,  he suggested.   He added that he  is unsure                                                              
about the  way it is currently  outlined and offered to  work with                                                              
the sponsor's office.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
2:34:08 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  TARR  reiterated  Mr. Ellis's  comments  regarding                                                              
requests for Alaska  State Park designs in different  formats, and                                                              
noted her  support for  opportunities to  raise money  in addition                                                              
to this bill.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
[HB 177 was held over.]                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
2:34:52 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
ADJOURNMENT                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
There being no further business before the committee, the House                                                                 
Resources Standing Committee meeting was adjourned at 2:34 p.m.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                

Document Name Date/Time Subjects
HB254 Sponsor Statement.pdf HRES 3/23/2016 1:00:00 PM
HB 254
HB254 Supporting Documents-Email AK Trophy Adventures 2-11-2016.pdf HRES 3/23/2016 1:00:00 PM
HB 254
HB254 Supporting Documents-Email APHA 2-12-2016.pdf HRES 3/23/2016 1:00:00 PM
HB 254
HB254 Supporting Documents-Email James P Jacobson 2-15-2016.pdf HRES 3/23/2016 1:00:00 PM
HB 254
HB254 Supporting Documents-Email Sam Rohrer 1-21-2016.pdf HRES 3/23/2016 1:00:00 PM
HB 254
HB254 Supporting Documents-Email Steve H Perrins II 1-26-2016.pdf HRES 3/23/2016 1:00:00 PM
HB 254
HB254 Supporting Documents-Letter Joe Klutsch 2-22-2016.PDF HRES 3/23/2016 1:00:00 PM
HB 254
BGCS LBA Audit.pdf HRES 3/23/2016 1:00:00 PM
HB 254
HB254 ver A.PDF HRES 3/23/2016 1:00:00 PM
HB 254
HB0177A.PDF HRES 3/23/2016 1:00:00 PM
HB 177
HB 177 Sponsor.pdf HRES 3/23/2016 1:00:00 PM
HB 177
HB 177 Salmon stamps.pdf HRES 3/23/2016 1:00:00 PM
HB 177
HB 177 FiscalNote.pdf HRES 3/23/2016 1:00:00 PM
HB 177
HB 177 ARRC Annual Art Program Costs (2015).pdf HRES 3/23/2016 1:00:00 PM
HB 177
HB 177 alaska duck stamps ebay.pdf HRES 3/23/2016 1:00:00 PM
HB 177
HB177 RR costs.pdf HRES 3/23/2016 1:00:00 PM
HB 177
HB 254 SCI Alaska.pdf HRES 3/23/2016 1:00:00 PM
HB 254
HB 254 FiscalNote.php.pdf HRES 3/23/2016 1:00:00 PM
HB 254