Legislature(2013 - 2014)BARNES 124

02/03/2014 01:00 PM RESOURCES


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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ HB 163 REGULATION OF SOLID FUEL BURNING DEVICES TELECONFERENCED
Heard & Held
*+ HB 268 BIG BULL MOOSE DERBIES TELECONFERENCED
Heard & Held
*+ HB 244 ADVISORY COMMISSION ON FEDERAL MGT AREAS TELECONFERENCED
Moved Out of Committee
        HB 163-REGULATION OF SOLID FUEL BURNING DEVICES                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
1:06:09 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR SADDLER  announced that the  first order of  business is                                                               
HOUSE BILL  NO. 163,  "An Act prohibiting  a person  from burning                                                               
certain materials  in a  solid fuel  burning device;  relating to                                                               
solid  fuel burning  device emission  standards; and  relating to                                                               
prohibitions  on  the  burning  of solid  fuels."    [Before  the                                                               
committee was the proposed committee  substitute (CS) for HB 163,                                                               
Version  28-LS0248\R,  Nauman,  4/4/13, adopted  as  the  working                                                               
document on 4/6/13.]                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
1:06:52 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE P.  WILSON moved  to adopt the  proposed committee                                                               
substitute  (CS)   for  HB  163,  Version   28-LS0248\G,  Nauman,                                                               
1/27/14,  as the  working document.   There  being no  objection,                                                               
Version G was before the committee.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
1:07:07 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE TAMMIE  WILSON, Alaska State  Legislature, sponsor                                                               
of HB 163,  outlined the provisions of Version G.   She noted the                                                               
bill's  length is  shortened due  to the  proposed [air  quality]                                                               
regulations being  put forth by  the Department  of Environmental                                                               
Conservation (DEC).  She explained  that the Fairbanks North Star                                                               
Borough  has  been  designated  a  particulate  matter  (PM)  2.5                                                               
nonattainment area  by the  U.S. Environmental  Protection Agency                                                               
(EPA).   Space  heating  devices, predominantly  wood and  pellet                                                               
stoves and hydronic  heaters, are being used by  a growing number                                                               
of Fairbanks residents to heat  homes and businesses.  The amount                                                               
of wood burning has nearly  doubled since 2006, a direct response                                                               
to increases  in the  price of  heating oil and  the lack  of low                                                               
cost, clean  burning, alternative  fuels.  A  governmental agency                                                               
should not be allowed to shut  down a resident's right to utilize                                                               
a  certified  appliance  burning approved  materials,  unless  an                                                               
emergency  arises, she  asserted.   Version  G  would require  an                                                               
emergency [prohibition] by  the governor for an area  to have its                                                               
wood burning completely banned and  would set the emergency level                                                               
at  351 micrograms  per  cubic  meter [of  air],  the same  level                                                               
included in  DEC's proposed  regulations.   Version G  would also                                                               
put  into statute  the  list of  things  that, under  regulation,                                                               
cannot legally  be burned in a  wood stove or coal  burner.  This                                                               
includes  such things  as painted  material,  railroad ties,  and                                                               
tires,  to help  people  understand what  should  not be  burned.                                                               
Unfortunately, when  people do  burn those  items, it  is because                                                               
they cannot  afford the heating  oil.  This  is all about  a high                                                               
cost of  energy, she stressed.   As  heating oil has  become more                                                               
expensive, those in  the Bush have had much  higher expenses than                                                               
other communities  and have turned to  alternative sources, which                                                               
includes  wood,  pellets,  and  coal.    Many  of  the  borough's                                                               
businesses have  turned to coal  burners, which are  cleaner than                                                               
some of  the hand-loaded  wood stoves.   Hand-loaded  wood stoves                                                               
smolder  when  they  cool  down, she  explained,  which  goes  on                                                               
throughout the day  [as they burn the wood supply]  and then have                                                               
to be manually  re-filled.  However, pellet and  coal stoves have                                                               
an automatic feed that keeps the temperature constant.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE T.  WILSON said the  bill has some issues,  so she                                                               
is  requesting  the  committee  to  hold the  bill  today.    She                                                               
reported DEC is  concerned the bill will cause  the department to                                                               
be unable  to enforce  what cannot  be burned,  which is  not her                                                               
intent and  which she  will discuss  further with  DEC.   Also of                                                               
concern to DEC  is the five-year sunset, a date  she chose in the                                                               
hope that  there would  be affordable  energy by  then.   The DEC                                                               
commissioner would feel better with  a two-year sunset, she said.                                                               
The state is  required to make an implementation  plan that shows                                                               
the EPA  how the  state is  going to  get from  one point  to the                                                               
next.   However, the numbers are  ever moving because the  EPA is                                                               
always  lowering  the number.    When  EPA lowered  [the  maximum                                                               
level]  from 65  micrograms per  cubic meter  to 35,  it put  the                                                               
borough into  its current problem.   Had the level stayed  at 65,                                                               
the borough would have been okay  for a few more years; although,                                                               
she conceded, the  borough would probably be  in nonattainment at                                                               
this point because more wood is being burned.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
1:11:34 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR FEIGE  inquired about the significance  of the microgram                                                               
number of 351, as per page 1, line 10, Version G.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE T.  WILSON responded this number  is the emergency                                                               
level proposed in  the DEC regulations brought  to her community,                                                               
so she put this number in the bill.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
1:12:10 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KAWASAKI  asked whether  the 351 micrograms  is an                                                               
acceptable level  and whether [DEC]  has set an  acceptable level                                                               
for pollution.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE T.  WILSON replied that  351 is the number  set as                                                               
the point for  emergency [by DEC].  However, as  she has told the                                                               
DEC commissioner, she is not married  to this number if DEC wants                                                               
to recommend a different number.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KAWASAKI  stated that if EPA  is constantly trying                                                               
to ratchet down the microgram  level, then putting 351 micrograms                                                               
into statute would result in having  to change the statute if EPA                                                               
changes the acceptable  limits.  He asked why the  proposal is to                                                               
do the level by statute rather than by regulation.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE T. WILSON  answered that right now  the state must                                                               
get  down to  35  micrograms,  not 351.    An  emergency is  when                                                               
[particulates] rise  to a certain  level and the question  is how                                                               
far over that level it should get  to call an emergency.  In this                                                               
bill, she is trying to look  through the eyes of her constituents                                                               
regarding an  emergency.  People  leave for work with  their wood                                                               
stoves burning,  she stated.   The proposed regulations  say that                                                               
immediate  action  can  be  taken  if  it  gets  to  an  episode.                                                               
However, since  this plan has not  been seen, it is  unknown what                                                               
an immediate action  is.  She expressed concern  about people who                                                               
have to leave work to go home  to shut down their wood stoves and                                                               
hope  they have  enough oil  to last  for the  number of  days it                                                               
takes  for  the air  quality  to  reach  a  certain level.    She                                                               
questioned if  people can  be asked  to go  through that  kind of                                                               
stress on a  day-to-day basis.  She  said she is in  favor of the                                                               
borough's current  volunteer shutdowns to improve  the change-out                                                               
programs, she said, or possibly  subsidizing oil in certain areas                                                               
that are  worse.  When people  are forced to shut  down qualified                                                               
stoves while using  the dry wood they are supposed  to use, it is                                                               
like grouping  everyone together on  the highway and  picking out                                                               
five or  six cars because  there are too  many cars on  the road.                                                               
She asked  what can be  done until technology improves  so people                                                               
feel that  they can stay in  the community.  She  said the number                                                               
of micrograms can be discussed by DEC staff or the commissioner.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  KAWASAKI asked  what the  sponsor envisions  will                                                               
happen if  the level is exceeded,  given that the level  would be                                                               
in statute  rather than regulations,  and the proposed  bill does                                                               
not address what happens in the case of an emergency.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  T.  WILSON  concurred the  bill  would  supersede                                                               
regulations  should [DEC]  want the  number to  be lower  and the                                                               
immediate action to be a forcible  shutdown.  That is what she is                                                               
trying to prevent by taking it  to the level of an emergency, she                                                               
said,  "and to  an  elected official,  one who's  a  head of  our                                                               
state, that  that should be  his decision and not  a commissioner                                                               
or someone  else down  the line, when  you're talking  about this                                                               
degree of impact on a community."                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
1:16:37 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SEATON noted  a number  of businesses  burn waste                                                               
petroleum products,  one of the  prohibited items  within Section                                                               
2, but  they are not  burning the  waste petroleum products  in a                                                               
wood or coal  designed furnace.  He surmised there  is nothing in                                                               
the  bill  that  would  impact someone  burning  waste  petroleum                                                               
products in a burner designed for liquid waste products.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE T. WILSON  agreed, saying such a  burner would not                                                               
be a solid fuel burning heating device as defined.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
1:18:00 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SADDLER  asked  what  the  consequences  are  for                                                               
violating the fuel prohibitions in Section 2.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE T. WILSON  replied that DEC's process  is to first                                                               
write a  letter to the person  and ultimately take the  person to                                                               
court.  In  further response, she said she did  not know what the                                                               
amount of a fine could be.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR SADDLER, regarding page 1,  line 9, that the prohibition                                                               
be  authorized by  the governor,  inquired whether  the sponsor's                                                               
intention is  that it must  be the  governor personally or  if it                                                               
could be the governor's designee.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE T. WILSON  responded that this could  have a major                                                               
impact to an  area of the state,  so she would like it  to be the                                                               
governor since the  governor is the elected  official heading the                                                               
state.   [Subsection  (k), page  1,  lines 6-7,]  is included  in                                                               
Version  G,  she  added,  because  Juneau  already  has  a  State                                                               
Implementation  Plan and  is therefore  exempted from  this bill.                                                               
She further  noted that she  is working with the  Municipality of                                                               
Anchorage to  answer its questions  and ensure the bill  does not                                                               
negatively impact  that community.  Responding  to Representative                                                               
Seaton, she  explained that  subsection (k)  is referring  to the                                                               
City and Borough of Juneau because it  is the only one that has a                                                               
wood smoke control area designated by name in state regulation.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR SADDLER understood the repealer  in Section 4 is because                                                               
the sponsor is  assuming that good things will be  coming "down a                                                               
pipeline" in the future.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE T.  WILSON said Section  4 would bring it  back to                                                               
the  legislature again,  at which  point it  can be  assessed for                                                               
whether this needs to be continued.   For example, there could be                                                               
improved technology with the solid  fuel burning devices or a gas                                                               
supply of some sort could have reached the borough by then.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
1:21:34 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KAWASAKI, regarding  the governor authorizing this                                                               
type of prohibition, noted that  Fairbanks has ceded this type of                                                               
control over to the state.   He asked, however, whether the state                                                               
and governor  making a decision  on air quality, rather  than the                                                               
local community, is really the kind of policy that is wanted.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE T.  WILSON answered the governor  already has this                                                               
power  during an  emergency  and she  would take  it  up a  notch                                                               
because she thinks  it is absolutely for the governor  to do.  In                                                               
the past  the state has  been a big  player in how  her community                                                               
has  done energy,  such as  electricity and  major projects,  and                                                               
with that  comes some  responsibility.  When  it came  to whether                                                               
her  community  was   going  to  try  meeting   the  air  quality                                                               
[standards], it was the state that  made an agreement with EPA to                                                               
get the  community to meet any  new numbers, no matter  what that                                                               
may take from the  community.  The point of HB  163, she said, is                                                               
to  refocus  that  Fairbanks  is  trying to  bring  in  the  best                                                               
technology and  replace older equipment  to improve  air quality.                                                               
Not understood  is why  the air quality  cannot just  get better;                                                               
instead, EPA's bottom  line is that this number must  be met even                                                               
though the  community cannot do  it with the best  technology out                                                               
there.  She  said it is going  to take some other  type of energy                                                               
besides even heating  oil because heating oil is also  at PM 2.5.                                                               
Five years from now, if Fairbanks  still does not have gas or the                                                               
governor has had  to frequently call an emergency,  this will put                                                               
pressure on  the state  that it  must be a  player.   The borough                                                               
does not have  the finances, nor should it have  to put its money                                                               
there, when the state itself has not done it, she opined.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
1:23:52 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  SADDLER  inquired  about  local  ordinances  and  voter                                                               
initiatives that the borough has adopted throughout the past.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE T.  WILSON reiterated that the  EPA keeps changing                                                               
the numbers.   Another episode was in 2008, she  said, when then-                                                               
governor  Sarah Palin  gave  $1,200 to  each  state resident  for                                                               
energy needs.   The month people received that  money, along with                                                               
their  permanent fund  dividend,  the price  of  oil jumped  over                                                               
night to  almost $5 per  gallon.  People  went into a  panic mode                                                               
and bought  outdoor boilers,  which are  meant for  big buildings                                                               
rather  than homes,  and this  increased the  air quality  issues                                                               
even more.   The borough then  came up with an  ordinance, mostly                                                               
because of  pressure from the  EPA.  The  EPA only gives  so much                                                               
credit  for  voluntary  measures  even when  those  measures  are                                                               
working,  she  stated.    Pressure   is  being  put  on  the  DEC                                                               
commissioner  to  do  enforcement   on  Fairbanks  to  bring  the                                                               
community into compliance because that  is what the EPA requires,                                                               
but weather  inversion is  the number one  reason the  borough is                                                               
having issues.   She said it  is the big power  plants which fill                                                               
up the  top of the  airshed, wood stoves  fill the next  level of                                                               
the  airshed, and  car emissions  fill the  lowest level.   Using                                                               
state funding, the  borough did a wood  stove change-out program,                                                               
but unlike  Libby, MT, which  did a one-on-one swap,  the borough                                                               
required that a  borough employee come in to take  a picture, the                                                               
homeowner had to  have the money up front, put  in the paperwork,                                                               
and then bring  in the [new] appliance.  Taking  a picture was an                                                               
issue because the  people in her community are  not very friendly                                                               
when government wants to come into  their homes, she noted.  When                                                               
the borough decides to fine  people during these times, citizens'                                                               
initiatives are put  out that say the borough  cannot fine people                                                               
for trying to heat their homes.   This puts it on the state level                                                               
and  the city  level of  Fairbanks and  North Pole,  but not  the                                                               
borough itself, because  it is still the peoples'  intent that as                                                               
technology improves and  as gas gets to homes,  [air quality will                                                               
improve].   For  example, it  was not  the local  testing of  car                                                               
emissions at a cost of $70  per car every two years that improved                                                               
air quality;  rather, it  was because  technology got  better and                                                               
old cars died.   Unfortunately, wood stoves do not  die as easily                                                               
as cars do and people become  very attached to them.  Once people                                                               
see how much  better the new technology is, they  will do it, but                                                               
it must be made to work in that direction, she stated.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
1:28:21 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE T. WILSON, in response to two questions from Co-                                                                 
Chair  Saddler, defined  airshed as  the ambient  air measurement                                                               
done by  monitors.  A hydronic  heater, she explained, is  a big,                                                               
rectangular, outdoor wood stove hooked  up to a water heater that                                                               
only needs  to be  filled once  a day.   Hydronic heaters  do not                                                               
work quite as well because the whole  wood used in them is not as                                                               
dry as split wood, plus the heaters  are not turned up as high as                                                               
they need to be because the area being heated in homes is small.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR FEIGE noted natural gas is being burned in Eagle River.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
1:29:42 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  TARR stated  that  some of  the prohibited  items                                                               
listed in  proposed AS 46.14.570 produce  fine particulate matter                                                               
when combusted and  therefore have some influence  in overall air                                                               
quality measurements.  She asked  why this proposed statute would                                                               
be repealed  on January 1, 2019,  as per Section 4  of Version G,                                                               
given those items should never be burned in a wood stove.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  T. WILSON  replied  she does  not understand  the                                                               
question because  those items  are listed  in regulation  and are                                                               
only relisted in the bill.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  TARR suggested  that repeal  of these  prohibited                                                               
items  may not  be wanted  because  the burning  of plastics  and                                                               
rubber products is something that should never be done.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  T. WILSON  conceded that  is a  good point.   She                                                               
said the  repeal is more  related to  the first part  rather than                                                               
the second, so she will consider the suggestion.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
1:31:22 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR FEIGE  posited that a technological  advance could occur                                                               
in the  next five years  that would allow those  prohibited items                                                               
to be burned because they would not contribute to air pollution.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE T. WILSON  agreed, saying things have  come a long                                                               
way; for  example, some stoves now  take wood or oil.   Section 4                                                               
would require a review of all prohibited items in five years.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
1:32:12 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON  inquired whether  the list  of prohibited                                                               
items  would  be  applied  to   all  municipalities  or  only  to                                                               
Fairbanks.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  T.  WILSON  answered   it  would  be  applied  to                                                               
Anchorage as well as Fairbanks.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  JOHNSON   noted  that  Anchorage  does   its  own                                                               
monitoring and  can now do  its own  emergency orders.   He asked                                                               
whether this would prevent Anchorage from having that ability.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE T. WILSON responded that  she does not believe so,                                                               
but she is  having discussions with Anchorage and  will make sure                                                               
that Anchorage's questions are addressed.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON related there  are people in Anchorage who                                                               
burn  for aesthetics  rather  than  heat and  for  this they  use                                                               
treated  plastic  logs  purchased  at Fred  Meyer's.    He  asked                                                               
whether HB 163 would  ban the sale or use of  that product in any                                                               
place in Alaska during an emergency order.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE T. WILSON  replied that is not her  intent, so she                                                               
will make  sure that  the bill  does not.   She pointed  out that                                                               
Anchorage, Fairbanks,  and Juneau have air  quality programs, but                                                               
the Wasilla area is the next  community that will probably have a                                                               
problem with  the PM 2.5;  therefore, she will ensure  this point                                                               
applies to any community.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON offered  his agreement with Representative                                                               
Kawasaki about keeping this with  the city rather than putting it                                                               
in the state's  hand, especially in Anchorage  where that control                                                               
has not been given up and Anchorage still does the monitoring.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE T.  WILSON answered that is  why it is just  on an                                                               
emergency level  and the  prohibited item  list is  already there                                                               
for  the state.   It  is not  her intent  to step  on any  of the                                                               
municipalities.  Her  intent is to ensure that when  there is the                                                               
possibility of  a huge negative impact,  it is known who  will be                                                               
making those calls.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  JOHNSON  thanked  the sponsor  for  working  with                                                               
Anchorage in regard to the bill.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
1:35:28 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KAWASAKI noted  that the issue of  air quality has                                                               
long been  worked on  in Fairbanks,  and [state]  regulations are                                                               
currently being  promulgated.  Given  that a quicker  solution is                                                               
wanted rather than  a slower one, he inquired what  impact HB 163                                                               
will have on the regulations currently being drafted.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE T.  WILSON responded  that DEC  has said  it wants                                                               
sold only  those stoves that  put out 2.5 [micrograms]  per hour,                                                               
and "the  borough would  still be  able to  be allowed  in this."                                                               
The  intent is  that  DEC could  still go  after  people who  are                                                               
burning  prohibited items,  but  Legislative  Legal and  Research                                                               
Services has  said that that  portion of  the bill could  be much                                                               
clearer.  All volunteer activities  and programs could still take                                                               
place.  "It just  takes it to a notch to  where you are literally                                                               
doing  a complete  banning  of  an energy  source  would make  it                                                               
clearer  on who  could absolutely  do  that portion  of it,"  she                                                               
said.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KAWASAKI expressed  his concern that if  a bill is                                                               
passed by the legislature it will  take a long time to promulgate                                                               
the regulations.   Delay has caused a lot of  people in Fairbanks                                                               
to  move, he  said, so  he  does not  want  to see  any delay  in                                                               
implementing some sort of a policy to  get to the root of the air                                                               
pollution issue in the Fairbanks area.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE P.  WILSON agreed  and said that  is why  the bill                                                               
version  that comes  back to  the committee  will not  impact the                                                               
majority of what  is in the proposed regulations.   She clarified                                                               
that they  are proposed  regulations and  DEC is  currently going                                                               
through  the hundreds  of comments  it has  received.   The final                                                               
regulations will  be part of  the State Implementation  Plan, she                                                               
explained, and passing  a bill now is less likely  to slow things                                                               
down  than waiting  until after  finalization of  the regulations                                                               
and plan.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
1:37:51 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  FEIGE asked  whether the  list of  prohibited items  is                                                               
enforced  at all  times or  only  when the  governor declares  an                                                               
emergency.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE T. WILSON replied those  items cannot be burned in                                                               
a solid  fuel burning  heating device  at any  time.   In further                                                               
response, she confirmed that these  prohibited items are included                                                               
in current regulations.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  FEIGE  inquired  whether  there  is  an  exemption  for                                                               
burning  the prohibited  items in  a rural  area, for  example, a                                                               
remote  mining   camp,  where  there  would   be  no  significant                                                               
detriment to the overall air quality.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  T.   WILSON  answered  there  is   no  exemption.                                                               
However,  she  clarified, it  is  a  solid fuel  burning  heating                                                               
device being talked  about here, so it might be  different for an                                                               
open bonfire.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  FEIGE  said these  remote  camps  use incinerators  for                                                               
getting rid of all kinds of  things, including some of the things                                                               
on the prohibited list.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE T.  WILSON responded  that incinerators  would not                                                               
be  included  in HB  163  because  the  bill defines  solid  fuel                                                               
burning  heating device,  and those  prohibited  items cannot  be                                                               
burned in  that type  of device.   If not in  an urban  area, the                                                               
odds of  DEC imposing  a fine  are probably  little to  none, she                                                               
said, but these items still should  not be burned in a solid fuel                                                               
burning heating device as defined in the bill.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
1:40:44 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE HAWKER,  regarding page 1, line  10, asked whether                                                               
"region" is a defined term.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE T. WILSON replied  the bill's terminology is taken                                                               
from the regulations  as proposed by DEC, so she  assumes DEC has                                                               
that definition.  Her community  is a nonattainment area, so most                                                               
of the rules being talked about pertain to that actual region.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE HAWKER  said it seems  vague to him because  if it                                                               
is not defined then it is unclear what constitutes the region.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE T.  WILSON agreed and  said she will make  sure it                                                               
is defined.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
1:42:50 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SEATON inquired  whether  the intent  of page  1,                                                               
lines   9-10,  is   that  the   governor  cannot   authorize  the                                                               
prohibition under any other circumstances.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  T.  WILSON  answered  neither  the  governor  nor                                                               
anyone  else could  mandatorily shut  down a  region's wood-fired                                                               
devices unless the level [is  at 351 micrograms per cubic meter].                                                               
She said  she will talk  further with the DEC  commissioner about                                                               
whether that number is correct.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SEATON asked  whether  there is,  or  will be,  a                                                               
definition of treated wood.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE T. WILSON responded she will find out.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON  explained he  is bringing this  up because                                                               
of  Representative Johnson's  question  about pressed  logs.   He                                                               
posited  it could  get into  a situation  where someone  sues the                                                               
state claiming that pellets are treated wood.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR SADDLER understood only the  governor could call the ban                                                               
and the ban could only be called if the standard is exceeded.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE T. WILSON said he is correct.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
1:45:08 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  KAWASAKI inquired  how  HB 163  would impact  the                                                               
regulations currently being promulgated by DEC.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
ALICE EDWARDS,  Director, Division of Air  Quality, Department of                                                               
Environmental  Conservation (DEC),  said  the  division is  still                                                               
looking through  Version G and  has had initial  discussions with                                                               
the bill  sponsor.  The division  still needs to clarify  some of                                                               
that  so it  understands what  the implications  would be  to the                                                               
regulatory  proposals  that have  gone  out  for public  comment.                                                               
Therefore, she said,  she cannot speak to that until  DEC has had                                                               
more time to review the proposed bill.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KAWASAKI  reported the borough and  the state have                                                               
been  going  round and  round  on  this  and people  are  leaving                                                               
Fairbanks due to  the energy costs and the air  quality.  A delay                                                               
would be  difficult for him if  the division thinks it  is moving                                                               
quickly on the  proposed regulations.  He asked  whether the bill                                                               
would impact the State Implementation Plan.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS.  EDWARDS  said  the  division  is  looking  at  the  bill  to                                                               
determine how it will impact  the State Implementation Plan, both                                                               
the parts  that are already in  place as well as  the future plan                                                               
for the Fairbanks  North Star Borough.  Clearly,  the division is                                                               
trying  to find  solutions and  make emission  reductions in  the                                                               
borough's nonattainment  area as  expeditiously as possible.   It                                                               
is important the  division take that into  context when reviewing                                                               
this bill.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
1:47:14 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KAWASAKI queried whether  351 micrograms per cubic                                                               
meter of air is exactly what is in current regulation.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MS. EDWARDS replied  that number was in the proposal.   A section                                                               
in  the existing  air quality  regulations  deals with  emergency                                                               
types of episodes,  and for most pollutants the  division has set                                                               
three different levels  of standards: an episode,  a warning, and                                                               
an emergency.   The 351 micrograms  per cubic meter at  a 24-hour                                                               
average  is DEC's  new proposal  for the  highest level  for fine                                                               
particulate matter; those have not yet been adopted.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KAWASAKI  paraphrased from  the Air  Quality Index                                                               
regarding 351  micrograms per  cubic meter  in a  24-hour period:                                                               
"everyone should  avoid physical  activity outdoors;  people with                                                               
heart  and lung  disease,  older adults,  children should  remain                                                               
indoors; keep  activity levels very  low."  He asked  whether the                                                               
state has  given thought  to making the  standard higher  than is                                                               
currently proposed.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MS.  EDWARDS answered  DEC  is  looking at  the  comments it  has                                                               
received on  that proposal.   She confirmed  it does tie  back to                                                               
the Air Quality Index and for  the episode level DEC has proposed                                                               
56,  which is  when  it is  unhealthy for  all  individuals.   An                                                               
intermediate step and an emergency level were also proposed.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
1:49:05 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR SADDLER queried  about the timeline for  delivery of the                                                               
proposed regulations.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MS. EDWARDS  responded the  comment period closed  at the  end of                                                               
January [2014] and many hundreds  of comments were received.  The                                                               
division  is working  to move  through those  relatively quickly,                                                               
but there  is a lot of  information to look  at.  It will  take a                                                               
couple  of months  to  work  through the  comments  and with  the                                                               
commissioner and administration to get a final package.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
1:49:39 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE P. WILSON commented  that the proposed regulations                                                               
make  a  difference for  the  town  of  Fairbanks, while  DEC  is                                                               
concerned  about  the  actual  health of  the  people  living  in                                                               
Fairbanks.   While  there are  two  different angles  to look  at                                                               
this,  as a  parent  she would  want to  be  warned when  certain                                                               
levels are reached so she  could ensure her children are watching                                                               
TV instead of  running around.  She inquired whether  the town of                                                               
Fairbanks wants to change what DEC  has put into place so that it                                                               
does not have to close down as soon.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MS. EDWARDS,  qualifying she is  unsure of the  question, replied                                                               
that DEC does currently call  air quality advisories in Fairbanks                                                               
and will  continue to do so.   The setting of  the episode levels                                                               
formalizes concentrations for fine  particulate matter, which, to                                                               
this point, DEC  has not had in  regulation.  So, it  is new, but                                                               
is  a statewide  proposal that  would then  also factor  into the                                                               
situation in Fairbanks.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  P. WILSON  asked whether  the majority  of people                                                               
commenting  on  the  proposed regulations  were  for  or  against                                                               
putting these levels in place.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MS. EDWARDS  answered that federal  requirements calling  for the                                                               
establishment of  episode levels is  one reason why  the proposed                                                               
regulations were  brought forward.  The  department received many                                                               
comments from  people in  the community  about what  those levels                                                               
should be, and those are still being evaluated.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
1:52:11 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  TARR  inquired  whether the  majority  of  people                                                               
commenting wanted the regulations to  be stricter or more lenient                                                               
than proposed.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MS. EDWARDS responded  DEC is still looking at  the comments, but                                                               
comments are being seen in both directions.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
1:52:54 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR SADDLER held over HB  163, saying public testimony would                                                               
be held the next time the bill is brought up.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                

Document Name Date/Time Subjects
CSHB 163(RES) ver R sectional.pdf HRES 2/3/2014 1:00:00 PM
HB 163
CSHB 163(RES) ver R Sponsor Statement.pdf HRES 2/3/2014 1:00:00 PM
HB 163
CSHB 163 Ver G Sectional analysis.pdf HRES 2/3/2014 1:00:00 PM
HB 163
CSHB 163 ver G Sponsor statement.pdf HRES 2/3/2014 1:00:00 PM
HB 163
HB 244 Sponsor Statement.pdf HRES 2/3/2014 1:00:00 PM
HB 244
HB 268 Sectional Analysis Big Bull Moose Derby.pdf HRES 2/3/2014 1:00:00 PM
HB 268
HB 268 Big Bull Moose Sponsor Statement.pdf HRES 2/3/2014 1:00:00 PM
HB 268
HB 268 Letter of support Cummings.pdf HRES 2/3/2014 1:00:00 PM
HB 268
HB 268 Letter of support D Hillberry.pdf HRES 2/3/2014 1:00:00 PM
HB 268
HB 268 Letter of support Dubowski.pdf HRES 2/3/2014 1:00:00 PM
HB 268
HB 268 Letter of support Kappel.pdf HRES 2/3/2014 1:00:00 PM
HB 268
HB 268 Letter of support L Lewis.pdf HRES 2/3/2014 1:00:00 PM
HB 268
HB 268 Letter of support Mayr.pdf HRES 2/3/2014 1:00:00 PM
HB 268
HB 268 Letter of support P Lewis.pdf HRES 2/3/2014 1:00:00 PM
HB 268
HB 268 Letter of support Tate.pdf HRES 2/3/2014 1:00:00 PM
HB 268
HB 268 Letter of support TVSA.pdf HRES 2/3/2014 1:00:00 PM
HB 268
HB 268 Letter of support UAF.pdf HRES 2/3/2014 1:00:00 PM
HB 268
HB 268 Nanooks news article 1.pdf HRES 2/3/2014 1:00:00 PM
HB 268
HB 268 Nanooks news article 2.pdf HRES 2/3/2014 1:00:00 PM
HB 268
HB 268 Nanooks picture 1.pdf HRES 2/3/2014 1:00:00 PM
HB 268
HB 268 Nanooks picture 2.pdf HRES 2/3/2014 1:00:00 PM
HB 268
HB 268 Picture TVSA club house.pdf HRES 2/3/2014 1:00:00 PM
HB 268
HB163 FNSB Nonattainment Boundary.pdf HRES 2/3/2014 1:00:00 PM
HB 163
HB163 Supporting Documentation-Autos and CO.PDF HRES 2/3/2014 1:00:00 PM
HB 163
HB163 Supporting Documentation-certfied wood stoves.pdf HRES 2/3/2014 1:00:00 PM
HB 163
HB163 Supporting Documentation-EPA Response.pdf HRES 2/3/2014 1:00:00 PM
HB 163
HB163 Supporting Documents-State Implementation Plan.pdf HRES 2/3/2014 1:00:00 PM
HB 163
HB 244 Version A.pdf HRES 2/3/2014 1:00:00 PM
HB 244
HB 268 Version A.pdf HRES 2/3/2014 1:00:00 PM
HB 268
CSHB 163 Ver G.pdf HRES 2/3/2014 1:00:00 PM
HB 163
CACFA 2013 Annual Report.pdf HRES 2/3/2014 1:00:00 PM
HB 244
HB 268 Blank CS 28-LS0851N.pdf HRES 2/3/2014 1:00:00 PM
HB 268
HB163 DEC Draft Regulations.pdf HRES 2/3/2014 1:00:00 PM
HB 163