Legislature(2015 - 2016)BARNES 124

02/11/2015 03:15 PM LABOR & COMMERCE

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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
*+ HB 81 EXEMPTION: LICENSING OF CONTRACTORS TELECONFERENCED
Heard & Held
*+ HB 9 PRIVATE INVESTIGATORS/AGENCIES TELECONFERENCED
Heard & Held
               HB 9-PRIVATE INVESTIGATORS/AGENCIES                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
4:12:02 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR OLSON  announced that the final  order of business  would be                                                              
HOUSE  BILL  NO.  9,  "An Act  providing  for  the  licensing  and                                                              
regulation  of  private  investigators  and  private  investigator                                                              
agencies; and providing for an effective date."                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
4:12:40 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  HUGHES,  speaking   as  prime  sponsor  of  HB  9,                                                              
presented HB  9.  She acknowledged  she introduced a  similar bill                                                              
to license  private investigators  last year  when it was  brought                                                              
to her  attention that a  felon could get  a business  license and                                                              
operate as  a private  investigator.  She  related a  situation in                                                              
which  a family  lost a  daughter and  was approached  by such  an                                                              
unscrupulous  individual.   She emphasized  that a presumption  of                                                              
authority  exists when  someone  identifies  himself/herself as  a                                                              
private investigator.   In  those instances  citizens might  offer                                                              
the  private investigator  personal  information  that they  might                                                              
not  otherwise give  out.   She offered  her belief  that this  is                                                              
something that  should be addressed.   She described  her approach                                                              
to curb  this activity was  not to create  a costly board,  but to                                                              
pattern  private investigator  licensing  after other  professions                                                              
licensed  by the division.   Finally,  since the  fiscal note  for                                                              
licensing private  investigators quadrupled from one  the division                                                              
proposed last  year, she  has questions  for the department  about                                                              
the fiscal note, she stated.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
4:14:49 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
GINGER  BLAISDELL, Staff,  Representative  Shelley Hughes,  Alaska                                                              
State Legislature,  on behalf  of the  prime sponsor, presented  a                                                              
section-by-section analysis  of HB 9.   She stated that  Section 1                                                              
would  include  private  investigators  as one  of  the  specified                                                              
professions licensed  under the Department of  Commerce, Community                                                              
&  Economic  Development  (DCCED)  and  Section  2  would  require                                                              
private  investigators  to  be  licensed   in  the  state.    This                                                              
provision  clearly states  that person  may  not practice  private                                                              
investigating unless  licensed under  this chapter or  exempt from                                                              
being licensed,  noting a  number of exemptions  exist.   A person                                                              
may not  use the title  of or practice  as a private  investigator                                                              
unless the  person is registered  with the department or  it could                                                              
result in a misdemeanor.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
4:15:55 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS.  BLAISDELL  referred  to  page  2,  line  4,  of  proposed  AS                                                              
08.85.110  that  outlines  the  scope   of  practice  for  private                                                              
investigators,   including   investigating    criminal   offenses,                                                              
obtaining information  from individuals, or gathering  evidence to                                                              
be used  in court.   Private  investigators working  in the  state                                                              
have  advised  the  sponsor  that  if  someone  has  not  received                                                              
adequate training,  the collection of evidence may  not admissible                                                              
in court.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
4:16:59 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS.  BLAISDELL  referred  to  page  2, line  19,  of  proposed  AS                                                              
08.85.120  that outlines  the general requirements  for a  private                                                              
investigator.   She related that in  order to obtain a  license as                                                              
a private  investigator, an  applicant must  be a citizen,  cannot                                                              
have been  convicted of  a felony  in the prior  10 years  or been                                                              
convicted of a  crime of dishonesty or sexual  misconduct, or have                                                              
received  a dishonorable  discharge  from  the military,  or  have                                                              
been determined  to  be mentally  incompetent by  a court of  law.                                                              
Further an applicant  cannot currently be on probation  or parole,                                                              
she said.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
4:17:51 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS.  BLAISDELL  referred  to  page  3, line  15,  of  proposed  AS                                                              
08.85.130,  which would  create  two classes  of  license, with  a                                                              
class  A license  being  a  more  advanced professional  level  of                                                              
private  investigator  and  a  class  B  license  an  entry  level                                                              
position,  such   as  an  apprentice   who  may   need  additional                                                              
experience or training  to become a class A  private investigator.                                                              
She directed  attention to  page 4, lines  21-31, through  page 6,                                                              
line 12 of  HB 9 to language  that identifies the  information for                                                              
the   license  application,   including   providing  the   typical                                                              
standard  information,   plus  providing   criminal  history   and                                                              
conviction record,  employment records,  and a statement  that the                                                              
applicant is  free from  mental illness.   Applicants must  submit                                                              
fingerprints  and  fees for  the  criminal history  record  check,                                                              
letters of recommendations  from three citizens without  any prior                                                              
felony convictions,  and  the application  must be notarized,  she                                                              
said.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
4:19:41 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS.  BLAISDELL  referred  to  page  6, line  13,  of  proposed  AS                                                              
08.85.170 that  would allow the  department to conduct  background                                                              
investigations of  applicants.  She directed attention  to page 6,                                                              
lines  19-28, which  would create  provisions  for reciprocity  to                                                              
allow  private  investigators  licensed  in  another  state,  with                                                              
comparable qualifications, to become licensed in Alaska.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
4:20:28 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  OLSON  asked  how many  states  currently  license  private                                                              
investigators.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MS. BLAISDELL  answered that  she was unsure.   She recalled  that                                                              
approximately 109  Alaskans have identified themselves  as private                                                              
investigators  and approximately  40  out-of-state  investigators.                                                              
In further response,  she answered that she was not  sure how many                                                              
other states currently license private investigators.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MS. BLAISDELL  clarified  that proposed AS  08.85.200 would  allow                                                              
Alaska  to  recognize  private  investigators  licensed  in  other                                                              
states, but  she wasn't  certain how  many states would  recognize                                                              
Alaska's  private  investigators  for  reciprocity.    In  further                                                              
response,  she related  that a  wide range  of licensure  programs                                                              
exist  in other  states.   She recalled  that four  states do  not                                                              
license private  investigators, but some states  provide municipal                                                              
oversight, although others have statewide laws.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
4:21:41 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. BLAISDELL  referred  to page  6, lines 29-31  through page  7,                                                              
line 12,  of proposed  AS 08.85.210,  noting the department  would                                                              
issue  an   identification  card   that  will  list   the  private                                                              
investigator's  license number,  which must  be carried while  the                                                              
investigator is performing private investigator duties.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MS. BLAISDELL  directed attention to  page 7, lines  12-31 through                                                              
page 8, line 15  of proposed AS 08.85.220, to  the requirement for                                                              
a private investigator  agency certificate, noting  the department                                                              
will  issue  a private  investigator  agency  certificate  if  the                                                              
primary employee  meets the requirements  of possessing a  class A                                                              
license and  the agency is  insured and  bonded.  She  referred to                                                              
page  8, 1ines  16-31  through  page 9,  line  2, of  proposed  AS                                                              
08.85.230  related to  license renewal  and nontransferability  of                                                              
licenses.   She  related that  a private  investigator license  is                                                              
not   transferable,  but   can   be  renewed   as   long  as   the                                                              
qualification  criteria  is still  valid;  however,  approximately                                                              
every  five  years  a  licensee   must  submit  to  an  additional                                                              
background check.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
4:22:43 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS.  BLAISDELL  directed  attention  to  page 9,  lines  3-11,  of                                                              
proposed AS 08.85.240,  which pertains to firearms  training.  She                                                              
explained  this   provision  was  added  to  ensure   that  people                                                              
entering  into  high  risk  situations   would  have  successfully                                                              
completed firearms training.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. BLAISDELL  directed attention  to page  9, lines 12-17,  which                                                              
provides  confidentiality   of  licensees'  personal   identifying                                                              
information.  Under  proposed AS 08.85.260,  prohibited practices,                                                              
licensees cannot  collect information for illegal  purposes.  This                                                              
provision  also  prevents  people  from  impersonating  a  private                                                              
investigator by carrying  a badge or uniform, or  display flashing                                                              
vehicle lights.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
4:24:20 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS.  BLAISDELL, referring  to  page  10, line  24  of proposed  AS                                                              
08.85.270,  explained that  this basically  states that an  action                                                              
may  not be  brought against  a person  who files  a complaint  in                                                              
good  faith  against  a  licensee.    She  surmised  that  private                                                              
investigators  may  encounter  some   people  who  might  wish  to                                                              
complain  about the legitimate  activities  of a licensed  private                                                              
investigator.   Thus  a  private investigator  can't  be sued  for                                                              
damages because  he/she located the  person he was hired  to find.                                                              
She  next  referred to  page  10,  lines  27-28, noting  that  the                                                              
regulations  will be  conducted  by administrative  procedures  by                                                              
the department.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MS. BLAISDELL  directed attention  to the exemptions  beginning on                                                              
page 10,  lines 29-31  through page  12, line  13, that  lists the                                                              
types  of  people   who  are  exempt  from   private  investigator                                                              
licensure,    including    people   who    perform    professional                                                              
investigative services  in their  normal course of  business, such                                                              
as attorneys,  law  enforcement officers,  insurance agents,  bank                                                              
employees,   forensic   scientists,    fire   investigators,   and                                                              
paralegals,  while acting  within the scope  of their  employment.                                                              
She   characterized  these   exemptions   include   a  number   of                                                              
professions  that  do  not  require   additional  licensure  as  a                                                              
private investigator.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
4:26:12 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS.  BLAISDELL stated  the bill  contains a  few definitions,  and                                                              
transitional  provisions  that  allow  someone  who  has  met  the                                                              
requirements  of  this  chapter  who is  operating  as  a  private                                                              
investigator  to continue  to  do so  until  the business  license                                                              
renewal.   She  related that  the effective  date of  the bill  is                                                              
July  2015, although  the department  would like  to postpone  the                                                              
effective date to allow time to adopt regulations.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
4:26:50 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  HUGHES   emphasized  that  private   investigators                                                              
cannot wear  any type of  badge that attempts  to portray  them as                                                              
law  enforcement  officers  or  some  type  of  state  or  federal                                                              
officials.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
4:27:37 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR OLSON asked for clarification on the fiscal note.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MS. BLAISDELL  deferred to  the department  to discuss  the fiscal                                                              
note;  however,  she  pointed  out the  fiscal  note  in  members'                                                              
packets  refers to House  Bill 253,  which was  a bill  introduced                                                              
last legislature  to license private investigators,  which did not                                                              
pass.   She included  a fiscal  note for  the aforementioned  bill                                                              
since it provides  a basis for discussion for the  fiscal note for                                                              
HB 9.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
4:28:25 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  LEDOUX  referred   to  page  3,  lines  13-14,  to                                                              
subsection  (c),  which  seems  overly vague  for  a  conflict  of                                                              
interest.   She suggested  it may  give the department  unfettered                                                              
authority  to  establish a  conflict  of  interest as  opposed  to                                                              
specifying circumstances.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MS. BLAISDELL stated  that this bill was patterned  after Colorado                                                              
law.  She  said that the applicant  may not be  currently employed                                                              
in a  position the department  determines to represent  a conflict                                                              
of  interest  for   the  prospective  licensee.     The  provision                                                              
specifically  restricts licensees  from  being currently  employed                                                              
as a peace  officer or federal,  state or local government  in the                                                              
capacity of  law enforcement.  She  suggested that a  person might                                                              
be  employed in  a  profession that  could  create  a conflict  of                                                              
interest,  such as someone  who is  a human  resource officer  who                                                              
has access to  more information.  She suggested  there will always                                                              
be odd  circumstances and questions  as to whether  the department                                                              
should have the discretion.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
4:31:02 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  LEDOUX interjected  that  she feels  uncomfortable                                                              
with [the department determining any conflict of interest].                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  HUGHES  welcomed  suggestions  in  improving  that                                                              
provision.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
4:31:27 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOSEPHSON  referred to page 2 of HB  9 to the scope                                                              
of practice  for investigators.   He wondered whether  proposed AS                                                              
08.85.110   would  cover   all  the   activities   of  a   private                                                              
investigator and  if the activities  listed were based on  a model                                                              
bill.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MS. BLAISDELL  explained that  the private investigator  licensing                                                              
bill used Colorado's  law, which was tweaked by  Legislative Legal                                                              
to comport with other statutory provisions.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  HUGHES reminded  members  that  the previous  bill                                                              
had input  and review  from private  investigators so she  thought                                                              
the   private   investigators   would   have   pointed   out   any                                                              
investigative activities that were missing.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
4:33:32 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOSEPHSON  referred to page 7, to  subparagraph (A)                                                              
to errors and omissions  insurance.  He asked what  is known about                                                              
private  investigator   negligence.     He  stated  that   private                                                              
investigators  could  be liable  for  errors  and he  wondered  if                                                              
private  investigators  can obtain  insurance.    He said  he  has                                                              
never heard of  any insurance being offered, but  wondered whether                                                              
private investigators  could be sued for such  things as reporting                                                              
that adultery occurred when it actually didn't occur.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MS. BLAISDELL  answered that  the bill  requires surety  bonds and                                                              
errors and omissions  insurance, which was set at  $100,000 at the                                                              
recommendation of  a private investigator.  She  reported that the                                                              
surety  bond is  standard  practice, that  the  City of  Fairbanks                                                              
requires  licensing   for  private   investigators,  as   well  as                                                              
requiring  a surety  bond of $10,000,  or $20,000  if the  private                                                              
investigators  are  licensed  in two  or  more  states.   She  was                                                              
unsure about  the errors and  omissions insurance, but  offered to                                                              
research this for the committee.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
4:35:41 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  JOSEPHSON   referred  to  the   concealed  handgun                                                              
provisions and  asked whether any second amendment  constitutional                                                              
issues exist.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MS.  BLAISDELL  replied  that she  asked  for  clarification  from                                                              
Legislative  Legal Services  in terms  of  the permit  to carry  a                                                              
concealed handgun.   She reported  the legislative  legal drafters                                                              
advised that Alaska  law does not prohibit anyone 21  years of age                                                              
or  older  who may  legally  possess  a  firearm from  carrying  a                                                              
concealed  weapon.   Thus, anyone  can carry  a concealed  firearm                                                              
without a  special permit or  training.  Further,  Alaska provides                                                              
that a  person may  obtain permit  to carry  a concealed  handgun,                                                              
with  the primary  reason to  obtain an  Alaska concealed  handgun                                                              
permit  is to  be  able  to carry  a  concealed handgun  in  other                                                              
states.   She stated that in  order to obtain a  concealed handgun                                                              
permit,  a  person   is  required  to  successfully   complete  an                                                              
approved handgun  course under  AS 18.65.715, typically  conducted                                                              
by  the Alaska  State  Troopers or  by several  private  entities.                                                              
Last year during  discussions on the previous bill,  it was deemed                                                              
important  that  if  private  investigators   were  to  carry  any                                                              
weapons  while  encountering  higher-risk  situations,  that  some                                                              
type of training should be required.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
4:38:15 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOSEPHSON  asked whether the penalties  for failure                                                              
to comply  with the investigator  certificates [under  proposed AS                                                              
08.85.220   (e)]  was   consistent   with   violations  of   other                                                              
professions,  for example,  if someone calls  themselves a  nurse,                                                              
but he/she  is not one, whether the  person is subject  to a class                                                              
A  misdemeanor.    He  pointed out  some  of  the  violations  are                                                              
technical  such  as  in  [subsection   (c),  paragraph  (5)]  that                                                              
requires notifying  the department  within 30  days of  any change                                                              
in the agency's officers, directors, or partners.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  LEDOUX  referred  to  the  extensive  list  of  18                                                              
exemptions  and wondered why  so many  exemptions were  allowed if                                                              
horrendous   things    can   happen   with    unlicensed   private                                                              
investigators.   She asked why the  bill was only  concerned about                                                              
people  conducting   investigations  with  their   own  individual                                                              
business,  but  not  for  those working  for  an  attorney  or  an                                                              
insurance agent.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE HUGHES  stated that in many of  the exemptions, the                                                              
professionals conduct  investigations as part of  their duties and                                                              
they have some  oversight, whereas private investigators  are sole                                                              
practitioners.  She  suggested that some of the  other professions                                                              
require their own licensing.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
4:41:25 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX  referred to page  10, line 31  through page                                                              
11,  line  2,   which  read,  "(1),  a  person   who  is  employed                                                              
exclusively or  regularly by  one employer that  is not  a private                                                              
investigator  agency and  who  performs investigations  solely  in                                                              
connection with  the affairs of that  employer."  She  offered her                                                              
belief that could be someone working for an insurance company.                                                                  
She offered her  belief that if licensing is going  to be required                                                              
for investigators, that it should cover everyone.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MS. BLAISDELL responded  that the business license  classification                                                              
for   investigations   was   very   broad,  and   the   types   of                                                              
investigators who  seek licensure tend  to be the ones who  are in                                                              
business   for   themselves   with  broad   access   to   database                                                              
information.   Typically, insurance  adjusters work for  insurance                                                              
agencies, and if  someone has a concern, he/she  could contact the                                                              
employer.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
4:44:33 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  LEDOUX argued  that these  investigators could  be                                                              
hired   by  an   insurance   company   or  an   attorney   seeking                                                              
information.  She  expressed concern that the  investigators might                                                              
misidentify  themselves just  to obtain the  information,  but the                                                              
employers  might not  be concerned  since  their goal  is to  hire                                                              
investigators to find out.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  HUGHES  suggested   that  it  isn't  necessary  to                                                              
license  everyone  who puts  on  Band-Aids as  licensed  practical                                                              
nurses, that  there must be  a limit.   She explained  that people                                                              
working  under these  exemptions  have  employers.   Although  she                                                              
understood the  concern, she  suggested there  must be a  limit as                                                              
to who  needs licensure.  She  maintained that the  exemptions are                                                              
for  people who  work for  employers  so they  have oversight  and                                                              
likely  work under  a  set of  requirements  in their  professions                                                              
that may address the concerns.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
4:45:48 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   LEDOUX   agreed    the   employers   might   have                                                              
requirements,  but she  is not  sure that  they do,  which is  her                                                              
concern.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE HUGHES  suggested that  the division might  be able                                                              
to provide  a response on  the exemptions for professions  covered                                                              
by licensure.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR OLSON asked to discuss the fiscal note.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
4:46:26 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SARA  CHAMBERS,   Acting  Director,   Division  of   Corporations,                                                              
Business,  and  Professional Licensing,  Department  of  Commerce,                                                              
Community, &  Economic Development  (DCCED), said the  fiscal note                                                              
reflects the level  of staffing and costs to start  a new program,                                                              
for  licensure costs  and  enforcement.   The  licensing  examiner                                                              
would need  to compile information  and determine  eligibility and                                                              
the   division's   investigators   would   need  to   review   the                                                              
information  to determine  if  it  is true  and  accurate and  the                                                              
applicant  was not  withholding information  that  will keep  them                                                              
from  meeting  the  threshold  for   licensure.    Certainly,  the                                                              
division would  not expect 100  percent of the licensing  examiner                                                              
or  investigator's  time  to  be   charged  back  to  the  private                                                              
investigator licensing  program.  Last year the  division received                                                              
three new  licensing programs as  well as a significant  expansion                                                              
of a  program, but  failed to  ask for  additional support  within                                                              
the division.   This resulted  in the division  not being  able to                                                              
absorb  the  costs,  therefore;  the  division  will  request  the                                                              
minimum staff  it needs  for any  new programs.   She related  her                                                              
understanding  that a  portion  of the  licensing  staff might  be                                                              
charged to other licensing programs.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
4:50:00 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  JOSEPHSON said  it sounds  like the division  will                                                              
be  shifting  some  of the  burden  of  the  private  investigator                                                              
licensing program  to some  of the other  new programs.   However,                                                              
it doesn't seem  fair for the private investigators  to absorb the                                                              
2014 new  licensing program  costs.  He  wondered if  the division                                                              
must  explain  to  the  other programs  why  their  fees  will  be                                                              
increased or whether he is missing the point.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MS.  CHAMBERS explained  that the  division puts  forth a  certain                                                              
level  of  service  regardless  of  the  number  of  staff,  which                                                              
depends on  the length of  the lag time  to process  new licenses,                                                              
for example,  if applicants must  wait three weeks, six  weeks, or                                                              
a  year  for licensure.    Thus  the volume  doesn't  reflect  the                                                              
activity, but the  level of service can be provided.   She did not                                                              
necessarily think  there will be  additional costs for  a specific                                                              
program,  but the  division desires  to  provide a  high level  of                                                              
service  to the  state.   For example,  the  Alaska State  Medical                                                              
Board  just  completed its  renewal  period  at  a time  when  the                                                              
division   experienced  an   influx  of   applications.     Having                                                              
additional  staff available  allows  the division  to  temporarily                                                              
assign licensing  examiners to programs  that need  seasonal help,                                                              
in this instance,  to assist the medical board  license doctors to                                                              
ensure that  hospitals were  fully staffed  and able to  function.                                                              
In fact,  Alaskans have  a high  expectation for  service and  the                                                              
division can  experience a need for  help in any of  its licensing                                                              
programs, she said.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
4:52:41 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE HUGHES  expressed concern that the  fiscal note was                                                              
nearly  quadruple  of the  fiscal  note  on  a similar  bill  last                                                              
legislative  session.  She  recalled during  the presentation  for                                                              
the Division of  Corporations, Business & Professional  Licensing,                                                              
that  Ms. Chambers  reported  the  range for  license  fees was  a                                                              
minimum  of  $50 for  some  professions  to $1,700  for  midwives.                                                              
However, she  reported that page  3 of the  fiscal note for  HB 9,                                                              
lists   an  estimated   license   fee   of  $2,900   for   private                                                              
investigators.  She  questioned the figures since  the fiscal note                                                              
to  license private  investigators  last  year was  $60,000  total                                                              
instead  of $230,000.    She  wondered why  private  investigators                                                              
were  being asked  to help  cover the  expenses for  the error  of                                                              
licensing  costs  for  three  new  professions  last  year.    She                                                              
explained  that it was  not her  intent to  create a  bureaucracy.                                                              
She further  questioned the  need for  1.5 licensing examiners  to                                                              
license  a potentially  140 private  investigators  in the  state.                                                              
She stated  that this program  was patterned after  some processes                                                              
in place  for other  professions, including  fingerprinting.   She                                                              
expressed concerned  about the proposed  costs to  license private                                                              
investigators as well as their proposed biennial fees.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MS. CHAMBERS  replied that  she did not  anticipate the  1.5 staff                                                              
positions proposed  for the  program to charge  all of  their time                                                              
to the private  investigator program.  It's possible  the proposed                                                              
private  investigator  licensing  program  might need  a  fulltime                                                              
investigator  for a  month,  or 80  percent  of an  investigator's                                                              
time  for three  months, or  perhaps  60 percent  for six  months.                                                              
After  the initial  licensure period,  the investigator's  ongoing                                                              
commitment could be  reduced to 30 percent, she  said, noting that                                                              
the  fiscal note  anticipated the  absolute  worst case  scenario,                                                              
and  took into  account  the number  of  exemptions  that must  be                                                              
considered  as well  as potential  complaints.   However, at  this                                                              
point the  division doesn't  know how  many private  investigators                                                              
will apply for  licensure.  She described the  fee setting process                                                              
as  being very  dynamic,  one that  depends  a  number of  factors                                                              
outside the  division's control.   It is more likely  that private                                                              
investigators will pay  fees closer to those of  midwives, but the                                                              
projected $2,900  in biennial fees  were based on  the information                                                              
the division  has today.  Any portion  of staff time not  used for                                                              
the  private  investigator  program  will be  charged  to  another                                                              
program.  For  example, if the licensing examiner  assigned to the                                                              
private  investigator program  was  temporarily  assigned to  help                                                              
medical  board  process  applications  or  license  renewals,  the                                                              
examiner's time will be charged to that program, she said.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
4:57:10 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE HUGHES  questioned the ratio of 1.5  staff for this                                                              
program.   She asked  for further clarification  on the  number of                                                              
staff assigned  to other non-board  professions of similar  size -                                                              
with 150 licensees - since 1.5 staff seems very high.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MS.  CHAMBERS  answered that  it  depends  on  the program.    She                                                              
explained  that  some  programs   with  under  100  licensees  are                                                              
assigned  one fulltime  staff; however,  other  programs may  have                                                              
several thousand  licensees but their profession  requires minimal                                                              
requirements for  licensure, with little need  for investigations.                                                              
Thus, those professions  may be assigned one-half  or one fulltime                                                              
licensing examiner.   Certainly, at times the  division may assign                                                              
multiple  investigators to  work on one  investigation.   However,                                                              
for  this  program,  the  division  envisions  that  investigating                                                              
licensees and  reviewing the  allowable exemptions will  initially                                                              
require  quite a  bit  of "hands  on" effort.    It seemed  highly                                                              
unlikely  the  private  investigator licensees  would  be  charged                                                              
$2,900  in biennial  fees  or  that it  would  take  1.5 staff  to                                                              
maintain the  program.  The division  will employ the  practice of                                                              
positive  timekeeping.  She  emphasized that  the division  cannot                                                              
absorb these  program costs  so it anticipated  the costs  for the                                                              
proposed program.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
4:59:59 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   HUGHES   maintained    her   concern   over   the                                                              
"quadrupled"  fees reflected  in the  fiscal note.   She said  she                                                              
did  not  wish  to  have  the  fiscal  note  reiterated,  but  she                                                              
expressed concern  that the  bill will not  pass with  the current                                                              
fiscal note  attached.  In fact,  she said she will pull  the bill                                                              
rather than add to the bureaucracy in the division.                                                                             

Document Name Date/Time Subjects
HB81 ver A.pdf HL&C 2/11/2015 3:15:00 PM
HB 81
HB81 Sponsor Statement.pdf HL&C 2/11/2015 3:15:00 PM
HB 81
HB81 Fiscal Note-DCCED-CBPL-02-06-15.pdf HL&C 2/11/2015 3:15:00 PM
HB 81
HB81 Fiscal Note-DOLWD-MI-02-06-15.pdf HL&C 2/11/2015 3:15:00 PM
HB 81
HB81 Supporting Documents-Letter Jess Hall 2-10-2015.pdf HL&C 2/11/2015 3:15:00 PM
HB 81
HB9 ver A.pdf HL&C 2/11/2015 3:15:00 PM
HB 9
HB9 Sponsor Statement.pdf HL&C 2/11/2015 3:15:00 PM
HB 9
HB9 Sectional Analysis.pdf HL&C 2/11/2015 3:15:00 PM
HB 9
HB9 Fiscal Note-DCCED-CBPL-02-06-15.pdf HL&C 2/11/2015 3:15:00 PM
HB 9
HB9 Supporting Document-Email Habeger 09-09-2013.pdf HL&C 2/11/2015 3:15:00 PM
HB 9
FOR REFERENCE ONLY-HB253 Fiscal Note-DCCED-CBPL-03-21-2014.pdf HL&C 2/11/2015 3:15:00 PM
HB 9
HB9 Opposing Documents-Letter Frank Wake 2-07-2015.pdf HL&C 2/11/2015 3:15:00 PM
HB 9