Legislature(2015 - 2016)CAPITOL 120

04/09/2015 01:00 PM JUDICIARY

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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
*+ HB 125 RESTRICTIONS ON SALE OF DEXTROMETHORPHAN TELECONFERENCED
Moved HB 125 Out of Committee
-- Public Testimony --
*+ HJR 17 FED AMMUNITION BAN; MANUFACTURE FIREARMS TELECONFERENCED
<Bill Hearing Canceled>
+ SB 43 IMMUNITY FOR FIRE DEPT. & MEMBERS TELECONFERENCED
Heard & Held
-- Public Testimony --
+ Bills Previously Heard/Scheduled TELECONFERENCED
+= SB 30 MARIJUANA REG;CONT. SUBST;CRIMES;DEFENSES TELECONFERENCED
<Bill Hearing Canceled>
-- Public Testimony --
                    ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE                                                                                  
               HOUSE JUDICIARY STANDING COMMITTEE                                                                             
                         April 9, 2015                                                                                          
                           1:07 p.m.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Representative Gabrielle LeDoux, Chair                                                                                          
Representative Wes Keller, Vice Chair                                                                                           
Representative Bob Lynn                                                                                                         
Representative Max Gruenberg                                                                                                    
Representative Neal Foster                                                                                                      
Representative Charisse Millett                                                                                                 
Representative Matt Claman                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Representative Kurt Olson (alternate)                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
OTHER MEMBERS IN ATTENDANCE                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Representative Jim Colver                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CS FOR SENATE BILL NO. 43(JUD)                                                                                                  
"An Act relating to immunity for a fire department and employees                                                                
or members of a fire department."                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     - HEARD & HELD                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE BILL NO. 125                                                                                                              
"An Act relating to the sale of products containing                                                                             
dextromethorphan; relating to the regulation of dextromethorphan                                                                
by municipalities; and providing for an effective date."                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     - MOVED HB 125 OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
BILL: SB 43                                                                                                                   
SHORT TITLE: IMMUNITY FOR FIRE DEPT. & MEMBERS                                                                                  
SPONSOR(s): SENATOR(s) COGHILL                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
02/06/15       (S)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
02/06/15       (S)       CRA, JUD                                                                                               
02/17/15       (S)       CRA AT 3:30 PM BELTZ 105 (TSBldg)                                                                      
02/17/15       (S)       Heard & Held                                                                                           
02/17/15       (S)       MINUTE(CRA)                                                                                            
03/05/15       (S)       CRA AT 3:30 PM BELTZ 105 (TSBldg)                                                                      
03/05/15       (S)       Moved  CSSB 43(CRA) Out of Committee                                                                   
03/05/15       (S)       MINUTE(CRA)                                                                                            
03/06/15       (S)       CRA RPT CS  3DP  SAME TITLE                                                                            
03/06/15       (S)       DP: BISHOP, EGAN, MACKINNON                                                                            
03/16/15       (S)       JUD AT 1:30 PM BELTZ 105 (TSBldg)                                                                      
03/16/15       (S)       Scheduled but Not Heard                                                                                
03/18/15       (S)       JUD AT 1:30 PM BELTZ 105 (TSBldg)                                                                      
03/18/15       (S)       Heard & Held                                                                                           
03/18/15       (S)       MINUTE(JUD)                                                                                            
03/20/15       (S)       JUD AT 1:30 PM BUTROVICH 205                                                                           
03/20/15       (S)       Moved  CSSB 43(JUD) Out of Committee                                                                   
03/20/15       (S)       MINUTE(JUD)                                                                                            
03/23/15       (S)       JUD RPT CS  4DP  SAME TITLE                                                                            
03/23/15       (S)       DP:    MCGUIRE,    COGHILL,    COSTELLO,                                                               
                         WIELECHOWSKI                                                                                           
04/01/15       (S)       TRANSMITTED TO (H)                                                                                     
04/01/15       (S)       VERSION: CSSB 43(JUD)                                                                                  
04/02/15       (H)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
04/02/15       (H)       CRA, JUD                                                                                               
04/06/15       (H)       CRA REFERRAL REMOVED                                                                                   
04/09/15       (H)       JUD AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 120                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
BILL: HB 125                                                                                                                  
SHORT TITLE: RESTRICTIONS ON SALE OF DEXTROMETHORPHAN                                                                           
SPONSOR(s): REPRESENTATIVE(s) MILLETT                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
02/25/15       (H)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
02/25/15       (H)       JUD                                                                                                    
04/09/15       (H)       JUD AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 120                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
JORDAN SHILLING, Staff                                                                                                          
Senator John Coghill                                                                                                            
Alaska State Legislature                                                                                                        
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:  Presented CSSB 43 on behalf of Senator                                                                   
Coghill, prime sponsor.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MITCH FLYNN, Fire Chief                                                                                                         
Steese Volunteer Fire Department                                                                                                
Fairbanks, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT:   During  the hearing  on CSSB  43, expressed                                                             
concern regarding lack of immunity  for the Steese Volunteer Fire                                                               
Department.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
DOUG SCHRAGE, Fire Chief                                                                                                        
Fairbanks University of Alaska Fire Department                                                                                  
Alaska Fire Chiefs Association                                                                                                  
Fairbanks, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION  STATEMENT:   During  the hearing  on  CSSB 43,  offered                                                             
support for SB 43.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
JILL DOLAN, Assistant Borough Attorney                                                                                          
Fairbanks Northstar Borough                                                                                                     
Fairbanks, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION  STATEMENT:   During the  hearing on  CSSB 43,  answered                                                             
questions.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
GRACE ABBOTT, Staff                                                                                                             
Representative Charisse Millett                                                                                                 
Alaska State Legislature                                                                                                        
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION   STATEMENT:     Presented   HB   125,   on  behalf   of                                                             
Representative Millett, prime sponsor.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
KACI SCHROEDER, Assistant Attorney General                                                                                      
Criminal Division                                                                                                               
Department of Law                                                                                                               
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:  Answered questions  during the hearing on HB                                                             
125.                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
SEAN MOORE                                                                                                                      
Consumer Healthcare Products Association (CHPA)                                                                                 
Washington D.C.                                                                                                                 
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified and  answered questions during the                                                             
hearing on HB 125.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
1:07:19 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  GABRIELLE  LEDOUX  called  the  House  Judiciary  Standing                                                             
Committee meeting  to order at  1:07 p.m.   Representatives Lynn,                                                               
Gruenberg, Keller, and LeDoux were  present at the call to order.                                                               
Representatives  Millett,  Claman,  and  Foster  arrived  as  the                                                               
meeting was in  progress.  Also in  attendance was Representative                                                               
Colver.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
1:08:27 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
            SB  43-IMMUNITY FOR FIRE DEPT. & MEMBERS                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR LEDOUX announced that the  first order of business would be                                                               
SENATE  BILL NO.  43, "An  Act relating  to immunity  for a  fire                                                               
department and employees or members of a fire department."                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
1:08:39 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
JORDAN  SHILLING,  Staff,  Senator  John  Coghill,  Alaska  State                                                               
Legislature, said SB 43 relates  to contract fire departments and                                                               
affects  the fire  departments of  Fairbanks, Anchorage,  Chugiak                                                               
and Girdwood.  He offered  that government creates immunities for                                                               
itself in different areas which  is fairly common especially when                                                               
it comes  to public  safety and  fire departments  in particular.                                                               
He advised that most states  have statutes that protects the fire                                                               
departments  themselves and  its employees.   He  referred to  AS                                                               
09.65.070,  and  conveyed that  it  provides  immunity except  to                                                               
contract  departments.    He  offered   that  he  researched  the                                                               
legislative   history  of   AS  09.65.070,   and  noted   it  was                                                               
established in the  mid-1970s, and is not  clear whether contract                                                               
fire departments  were in  existence, and  that the  language was                                                               
crafted from a statute in Delaware.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
1:10:21 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  LEDOUX   asked  whether  contract  fire   departments  are                                                               
considered volunteer fire departments.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR. SHILLING answered that these  are .501(C)(3), non-profits and                                                               
are mostly volunteer  based although the chief  will generally be                                                               
paid.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
1:10:48 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. SHILLING  continued his presentation and  stated that because                                                               
the  Municipality  of  Anchorage   and  the  Fairbanks  Northstar                                                               
Borough contract  with these fire  departments and  utilize their                                                               
services  even  though  the  statute  doesn't  cover  those  fire                                                               
departments,  fire fighters,  and  volunteers.   In that  regard,                                                               
they are exposed to extra liability  that others are not and this                                                               
bill  extends that  immunity to  those departments.   He  advised                                                               
that initially  the bill was  introduced with full immunity.   He                                                               
further  advised  that  concerns  were expressed  in  creating  a                                                               
blanket  immunity so  the fairly  common carve  out exception  of                                                               
gross negligence  and willful acts  of misconduct was added.   He                                                               
pointed out  that the second change  to the bill was  as a result                                                               
of  Representative  Seaton's  suggestion   to  ensure  that  this                                                               
immunity  does not  somehow apply  to a  contractor of  a private                                                               
entity.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
1:12:10 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR LEDOUX questioned "does not apply to ..."                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
1:12:12 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  SHILLING  offered   the  example  of  a   village  having  a                                                               
relationship with a contract department,  and that department had                                                               
a subsequent  contract with a  private entity, the change  was to                                                               
ensure  that  this  bill  did not  somehow  protect  the  private                                                               
entity.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
1:12:37 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  LEDOUX  asked  whether this  only  covers  contracts  with                                                               
.501(C) organizations.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR.  SHILLING responded  that Chair  LeDoux was  correct in  that                                                               
these are mostly structured in that manner.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
1:12:57 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG referred to  a 3/16/15, letter from Fire                                                               
Chief John  Fullenwider, Municipality  of Anchorage,  which read:                                                               
"These bill, if  enacted, will protect residents  by reducing the                                                               
risk  of liability  and frivolous  tort claims  against municipal                                                               
and non-profit  fire agencies."  He  asked what the bill  does to                                                               
change the liability of the municipality itself.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR.  SHILLING  answered  that municipally  operated  departments,                                                               
such as the Anchorage Fire  Department already has protections in                                                               
statutes  and this  bill does  not affect  those and  if anything                                                               
extends its protections, but certainly does not reduce it.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG  said a  bill is forthcoming  related to                                                               
the issue  of retroactivity.  He  surmised that this bill  is not                                                               
retroactive and  will only  apply to claims  arising on  or after                                                               
the effective date of this Act.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR.  SHILLING  replied   "that  is  correct,  there   is  not  an                                                               
applicability section here so it would apply."                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG  highlighted that  he is  serving notice                                                               
he may offer an applicability  section to state that this applies                                                               
to claims  arising on or  after the  effective date of  this Act.                                                               
Although, he realizes he may  have violated the 24-hour rule, but                                                               
it is important to make it clear.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
1:15:48 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. SHILLING  opined that the drafter  of the bill may  be on the                                                               
line to  determine whether this is  a necessary change as  it may                                                               
be that this inherently only applies to claims on or after.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG  offered that routinely  within criminal                                                               
law it includes the language, but  this issue has not been before                                                               
the House  Judiciary Standing  Committee this  year on  the civil                                                               
side.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR LEDOUX opened public testimony.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
1:17:34 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MITCH FLYNN,  Fire Chief, Steese Volunteer  Fire Department, said                                                               
the Steese  Volunteer Fire Department, a  non-profit organization                                                               
in Fairbanks, provides  fire and EMS services  through a contract                                                               
with the  Fairbanks Northstar Borough.   He noted that  last year                                                               
the legal  team at  the Fairbanks  Northstar Borough  pointed out                                                               
his department's  lack of  immunity protection  and vulnerability                                                               
to lawsuits.   He requested a change in the  Alaska Statutes that                                                               
provides   the   same   immunity  protections   as   offered   to                                                               
municipalities.  He explained there  are approximately seven non-                                                               
profit fire  departments statewide  contracting with  a municipal                                                               
government and providing the services  of fire and EMS, and noted                                                               
that the population base is  approximately 100,000 residents.  He                                                               
highlighted his concern that the  lack of immunity protection may                                                               
have  a   negative  impact  on   recruitment  and   retention  of                                                               
volunteers in the future.  On  a good note, he stated, by passing                                                               
this legislation it  may help identify costs  and annual premiums                                                               
for general liability  insurance that is paid out.   He described                                                               
the irony of the situation in  that his department may respond to                                                               
a  Fairbanks Northstar  Borough call  and yet  incur a  liability                                                               
claim  of which  affects the  taxpayer.   He remarked  it is  the                                                               
desire of  his department to  offer fire and EMS  services safely                                                               
and to the  best of its ability without the  fear of lawsuits and                                                               
unwanted claims.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
1:20:47 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
DOUG  SCHRAGE, Fire  Chief, Fairbanks  University of  Alaska Fire                                                               
Department, Alaska Fire Chiefs Association,  said that the Alaska                                                               
Fire Chief Association represents most  of the fire and emergency                                                               
service  leaders throughout  the state.   He  said he  joins with                                                               
Chief  Flynn, local  colleagues,  and those  of  the Alaska  Fire                                                               
Chiefs Association  in support of SB  43.  He explained  that the                                                               
University  Fire  Department,  the Steese  Fire  Department,  and                                                               
several  others are  student based,  non-profit fire  departments                                                               
providing fire  protection to the Fairbanks  Northstar Borough on                                                               
a  contractual  basis.   As  such,  he  explained,  it is  not  a                                                               
municipal  fire department  and would  benefit from  the immunity                                                               
this bill affords.   He noted that of particular  concern is that                                                               
it is  a workforce development program  responsible for providing                                                               
many of Alaska's municipal fire  departments with experienced and                                                               
training  fire fighters.   He  pointed out  that in  this current                                                               
fiscal  environment,   at  the   University,  concern   over  the                                                               
liability this bill addresses could be  a factor in the future of                                                               
its  program.   For  those  reasons,  he  stated, he  joined  his                                                               
colleagues in supporting SB 43.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
1:22:52 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CLAMAN  asked what it  would look like for  a non-                                                               
municipal  fire department  in  terms of  where  there would  and                                                               
would not be potential liability, should SB 43 pass.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CHIEF  SCHRAGE   responded  that   this  bill  extends   to  fire                                                               
departments  such as  his in  extending  immunity from  liability                                                               
essentially  under the  Doctrine  of Sovereign  Immunity to  non-                                                               
municipal  fire  departments.   He  described  the department  as                                                               
contractors  and  therefore  independent   of  the  municipal  or                                                               
borough  government  those  immunities   do  not  extend  to  the                                                               
departments or employees.   He described its  exposure to general                                                               
liability  as enormous  in  terms of  nonfeasance  or failure  to                                                               
provide  service all  the way  to  injury to  his employees,  and                                                               
noted  it may  be  a failure  to protect  the  citizens that  pay                                                               
taxes.   He  opined  that this  bill  would specifically  address                                                               
those sorts of immunities.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CLAMAN offered  that currently municipalities have                                                               
greater protections  as it has  the protection of  the sovereign.                                                               
Whereas,  he  continued, a  volunteer  fire  department could  be                                                               
exposed  to  negligence  and  liability for  the  work  they  are                                                               
performing rather than the  gross negligence protection currently                                                               
afforded municipalities in the same setting.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHIEF SCHRAGE offered "that is my understanding."                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
1:25:06 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHIEF SCHRAGE  responded to Representative  Gruenberg that  on an                                                               
elementary  level he  is  familiar with  the  legalities of  this                                                               
bill,  but  is  not  intimately familiar  with  the  nuances  and                                                               
effects of the various substitute versions and amendments.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
1:28:03 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
The committee took an at-ease from 1:28 to 1:30 p.m.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
1:30:19 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG  referred to  current law and  the House                                                               
Judiciary Standing  Committee CS,  and then referred  to [Section                                                               
1], AS 09.65.070(c), [page 1, lines 5-8], which read:                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
          (c) An action for tort or breach of a contractual                                                                     
     duty based  on the  act or omission  of an  employee or                                                                    
     member  of a  fire  department in  the  execution of  a                                                                    
     function for  which the  department is  established may                                                                    
     not be  maintained against an  employee or member  of a                                                                    
     fire department ...                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG  highlighted that the first  sentence is                                                               
essentially  the  same  as  current  law  except  more  elegantly                                                               
drafted.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
1:31:11 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
JILL  DOLAN,  Assistant  Borough  Attorney,  Fairbanks  Northstar                                                               
Borough, agreed with Representative  Gruenberg and noted that the                                                               
substantial  change is  the definition  of  fire department  that                                                               
begins on page 1, lines 13-24 ...                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GRUENBERG  interjected that  before  anticipating                                                               
his questions,  to refer to  the second sentence, [page  1, lines                                                               
8-23], which read:                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
     An  action for  tort or  breach of  a contractual  duty                                                                    
     based on the  act or omission of an  employee or member                                                                    
     of a  fire department  in the  execution of  a function                                                                    
     for  which the  department  is established  may not  be                                                                    
     maintained against a fire  department unless the action                                                                    
     alleges intentional  misconduct or gross  negligence or                                                                    
     is  based on  the act  or  omission of  an employee  or                                                                    
     member of a fire department  in the execution of a duty                                                                    
     under contract with a private entity.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   GRUENBERG   described   the  sentence   as   re-                                                               
establishing the liability  of ... the first  sentence deals with                                                               
an  action, on  line 6,  "or  omission of  an employee  ..."   He                                                               
offered that in  other words, if a person sues  a fireman because                                                               
he  dropped  a person  and  said  "burn,  burn," that's  what  it                                                               
applies.  In  the event a person sues the  fire department, which                                                               
is where the  second sentence comes in, on lines  10-11, "may not                                                               
be maintained against a fire department."   He opined that is the                                                               
essential difference  between the  first sentence and  the second                                                               
sentence.   Whereas,  he pointed  out, the  first sentence  is an                                                               
action against an employee, and  the second sentence is an action                                                               
against a fire department.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
1:32:47 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS.  DOLAN answered  that  Representative  Gruenberg was  correct                                                               
with the additional  qualification that if the  action is against                                                               
a  fire department,  a  person can  still have  an  action if  it                                                               
alleges intentional misconduct or gross negligence.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GRUENBERG offered  that  Ms. Dolan  was one  step                                                               
ahead  of him  as  under current  law  a person  can  sue a  fire                                                               
department for  negligence.   He said  that "this"  immunizes the                                                               
fire  department itself,  whether  or  not it  is  volunteer.   A                                                               
person  can   no  longer  sue   it  unless  the   action  alleges                                                               
intentional misconduct or gross negligence, he reiterated.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MS. DOLAN responded  that currently in AS  09.65.070(d) there is,                                                               
for municipal  fire departments, discretionary  function immunity                                                               
for  damages.    Therefore,  she explained,  currently  a  person                                                               
cannot maintain  an action for  damages against a  municipal fire                                                               
department  if it  is based  on  a discretionary  function.   She                                                               
further explained  that the same  immunity does not apply  to the                                                               
contracted fire  department, such as  what Chief Flynn  and Chief                                                               
Schrage   were   discussing,   as  they   are   contracted   fire                                                               
departments.   She related that  the intent was to  incorporate a                                                               
similar   immunity  and   to  Subsection   (c)  for   those  fire                                                               
departments.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
1:34:18 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR LEDOUX  remarked that discretionary  immunity means  that a                                                               
fire department can't be sued  because it decided not to exercise                                                               
a  function.    For  example, the  Department  of  Transportation                                                               
(DOT), if  a division  does not  put up a  guard rail,  the state                                                               
cannot be sued.   In the event DOT puts up a  guard rail and does                                                               
not maintain  the guard rail, the  state can be sued.   She noted                                                               
that the first  example is discretionary and  a government cannot                                                               
be  sued for  not doing  something which  is discretionary.   The                                                               
government  can   be  sued  for   negligence  in   something  the                                                               
government decides to undertake.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MS. DOLAN  stated that Chair  LeDoux "is absolutely  correct," as                                                               
discretionary   functions   are   generally   aspects   involving                                                               
allocation of financial  resources.  She agrees that  once a duty                                                               
is undertaken  it generally  cannot be  taken in  a non-negligent                                                               
manner,  but   there  are   certain  on-the-scene   decisions  in                                                               
firefighting  that  could  be discretionary  because  it  entails                                                               
resource allocation  and those decisions  are vested in  the fire                                                               
chief in charge.  She offered  that the courts have extended some                                                               
discretionary  function  immunity in  the  context  of fire  that                                                               
would include on-the-scene decisions.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
1:35:54 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG surmised  that discretionary actions are                                                               
immunized and the issue here  is regarding non-discretionary.  He                                                               
read that under  current law, if a person sues  a fire department                                                               
itself  rather than  the  individual,  for non-discretionary  the                                                               
standard  is  negligence.    He   referred  to  line  11,  "  ...                                                               
intentional or gross  negligence ..."  He stated that  is now the                                                               
standard and  opined it  was added  and was  not in  the original                                                               
bill.  He described it  as significantly raising the standard for                                                               
suing  a   fire  department   involved  in   a  non-discretionary                                                               
function.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
1:37:00 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS.  DOLAN replied  that it  changes  the standard  for the  non-                                                               
discretionary  function.   The intent,  she  explained, was  that                                                               
because  contracted fire  departments cannot  enjoy discretionary                                                               
function  immunity  to  leave subsection  (d)  intact  and  allow                                                               
municipalities to  continue to enjoy  the immunity.   Instead, in                                                               
the context of looking at  fire departments in general, extend an                                                               
immunity that is  not a full and complete immunity  and limit it,                                                               
she highlighted.   She further  highlighted that  the intentional                                                               
misconduct or gross negligence language  is intended to limit how                                                               
far  that  immunity could  extend,  and  while listening  to  the                                                               
hearing with  the committee substitute  noted it is  not intended                                                               
to expand the immunity.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG  opined that he  intends to look  at the                                                               
bill because it appears to go as far as it can go.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  LEDOUX announced  she would  hold the  bill as  it appears                                                               
this  bill  may  go  farther  than the  original  intent  of  the                                                               
sponsor.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
1:38:20 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  SHILLING advised  that upon  introduction of  the bill,  the                                                               
non-discretionary  immunity was  to non-discretionary  activities                                                               
for  fire departments.   He  stated  the only  action the  Senate                                                               
Community and  Regional Affairs Standing Committee  performed was                                                               
the  carve out  for intentional  misconduct or  gross negligence.                                                               
He noted the intention all along was to expand that immunity.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG  opined that  the committee  should look                                                               
at the bill and ascertain that it does what was intended.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR LEDOUX  closed public testimony  after ascertaining  no one                                                               
further wished to testify, and announced SB 43 is held over.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
        HB 125-RESTRICTIONS ON SALE OF DEXTROMETHORPHAN                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
1:40:13 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR LEDOUX announced that the  final order of business would be                                                               
HOUSE BILL  NO. 125,  "An Act  relating to  the sale  of products                                                               
containing  dextromethorphan;  relating   to  the  regulation  of                                                               
dextromethorphan   by  municipalities;   and  providing   for  an                                                               
effective date."                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
1:40:28 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
GRACE  ABBOTT,  Staff,  Representative Charisse  Millett,  Alaska                                                               
State Legislature,  said that HB 125  deals with dextromethorphan                                                               
(DXM), and for decades families  have been using over the counter                                                               
cough  medicine to  treat coughs  and colds.   She  described the                                                               
cough medicines  as containing DXM  which when used  correctly is                                                               
safe  and   effective  in  soothing   symptoms.     However,  she                                                               
explained, when taken  in high doses these  medicines can produce                                                               
hallucinations,  confusion,  blurred  vision,  nausea,  excessive                                                               
fatigue,  and   loss  of   motor  control.     She   noted  that,                                                               
unfortunately according  to a 2013  study, four percent  of teen-                                                               
agers have intentionally taken exceedingly  large amount of cough                                                               
medicine  containing  DXM  to  get  high.    She  expressed  that                                                               
Alaskans  take  substance abuse  issues  very  seriously and  the                                                               
abuse of  DXM should be  no exception.   She described HB  125 as                                                               
seeking to  assist in combating  this problem by  prohibiting the                                                               
sale of DXM to Alaskans under the  age of 18.  The step in asking                                                               
for  proof  of  age  prior  to  sale  would  maintain  access  to                                                               
effective  over-the-counter cough  medicines  for [Alaskans]  who                                                               
use them  to treat cough  symptoms associated with colds  and flu                                                               
while  limiting  access  to the  small  yet  notably  significant                                                               
number of  adolescents who  might abuse them,  she related.   The                                                               
penalty to those  who sell to minors begins at  $150 and escalate                                                               
to $250  for the  second and any  future violations,  she pointed                                                               
out.                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
1:42:41 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE FOSTER  advised that  he bought Sudafed  and noted                                                               
there are two  kinds that can be bought at  the front counter and                                                               
behind the counter.  He asked how this would fit into HB 125.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MS. ABBOTT  opined that  she is  not quite  as familiar  with the                                                               
manner Sudafed is  regulated, but not only is  Sudafed behind the                                                               
counter but it  also requires that identification  be scanned and                                                               
usually the  information is put  into a  data base.   She further                                                               
opined that this effort was  undertaken to track and regulate the                                                               
production  of  methamphetamines.    However,  she  said,  unlike                                                               
Sudafed what would  happen with DXM containing  medicines is that                                                               
these medicines  would still be  available over-the-counter  as a                                                               
cashier  upon purchase  would check  identification or  note that                                                               
the person may be over the age of 25.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  FOSTER advised  he had  to sign  a log  book, but                                                               
with this bill  there is no log book and  just the identification                                                               
requirement.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. ABBOTT  answered that it  is just  the identity check  and is                                                               
still  available   to  people  under   the  age  of  18   with  a                                                               
prescription from a doctor, as well  as people over the age of 18                                                               
who would have to do  nothing except possibly show identification                                                               
upon purchase.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
1:44:26 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  LYNN referred  to  Sec.  1, [AS  11.76.150(a)(1),                                                               
page 1], lines 8-9, which read:                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
          (1) the seller, retailer, or vendor checks a                                                                          
     government-issued photo identification and determines                                                                      
     the person is 18 years of age or older;                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE LYNN  surmised a photo identification  is required                                                               
to buy cough syrup but not for voting.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MS. ABBOTT answered "As best I understand it, yes."                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
1:45:07 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KELLER  surmised that  the problem  is consumption                                                               
rather than something  being refined and therefore  a more potent                                                               
detrimental drug.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MS. ABBOTT responded  that as best she  understands, although she                                                               
is  not  an expert  regarding  the  manufacture  of drugs.    She                                                               
explained that DXM  is being consumed as one would  a cough syrup                                                               
and in excessive amounts.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR LEDOUX assumed it is not made into concentrates.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MS. ABBOTT answered "I don't believe they do."                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
1:45:59 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE MILLETT  offered that  the most  common activities                                                               
with DXM and  [teen-agers], in speaking with  police officers, is                                                               
that teens are  taking the cough syrup, mixing it  with soda, and                                                               
drinking  it, which  is called  "Robo tripping."   She  explained                                                               
that   large  quantities   are  consumed   with  health   effects                                                               
detrimental  to  these young  kids  whose  bodies and  minds  are                                                               
forming who  are looking for  a quick high which  sometimes turns                                                               
into more than a quick high.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
1:46:39 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG  referred to  Section 2,  [AS 29.10.149,                                                               
page 2, line 6], which read:                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
          (65) AS 29.35.149 (regulation of dextromethorphan)                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GRUENBERG advised  the bill  drafting style  only                                                               
sets  out subsection  65, as  it does  not set  out the  complete                                                               
section.   He stated, "it  apparently is limitation of  home rule                                                               
powers.   Only the  following provisions of  this title  apply to                                                               
home rule municipalities as prohibition  on acting otherwise than                                                               
provided ..."   In other  words, he  explained, that they  can do                                                               
anything they  want except for  "stuff" that is listed  here, and                                                               
now  there is  a  new section  65.   He  read, "These  provisions                                                               
supersede existing and prohibit  future home rule enactments that                                                               
provide otherwise."   He stated  they have now added to the other                                                               
64 provisions  this "new  little" provision  in Section  3, which                                                               
says that home rule municipalities cannot regulate DXM.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MS.  ABBOTT  replied  "You  are correct,"  and  when  looking  at                                                               
Section 3, it provides that for other municipalities as well.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
1:48:30 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   GRUENBERG    referred   to   Section    1,   [AS                                                               
11.76.150(a)(2), page 1], lines 10-11, which read:                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
           (2) from the person's outward appearance,                                                                            
        the seller, retailer, or vendor would reasonably                                                                        
     presume the person to be 25 years of age or older; or                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GRUENBERG remarked  that  Section  1, requires  a                                                               
government issued  photo identification.  He  stated that Section                                                               
2, indicates that the clerk behind  the counter can sell [DXM] to                                                               
a  person if  the  person's outward  appearance  the clerk  would                                                               
reasonably presume the customer is 25  years of age or older.  He                                                               
described the  language as unusual  which puts an  unusual burden                                                               
on the clerk and asked why that language is in the bill.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MS. ABBOTT responded that if  a customer notably looks older than                                                               
25  it would  be  an  acceptable manner  of  selling  DXM to  the                                                               
customer and not card them at the register.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GRUENBERG said  that  with  regard to  subsection                                                               
(2), he  would like to  hear from the  people in the  industry in                                                               
protecting the employee.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
1:50:55 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. ABBOTT  noted she  could not cite  the specific  statute, but                                                               
that this  is common place  in the adopted business  practices of                                                               
major retailers in Alaska.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG asked whether  there is language similar                                                               
in other  statutes so there is  not one requirement for  this one                                                               
drug.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
1:51:58 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
KACI  SCHROEDER, Assistant  Attorney General,  Criminal Division,                                                               
Department  of   Law,  advised  she   has  not   researched  that                                                               
particular  language,  but  there  used  to be  a  rule  that  an                                                               
establishment had  to card someone  attempting to buy  alcohol if                                                               
they looked under 35 years of age.   She stated she does not know                                                               
if that  was just  practice or  whether it was  in statute.   She                                                               
noted  that  the looks  of  someone  in  determining age  is  not                                                               
uncommon.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG opined  that it used to be  that way and                                                               
then it became  too dicey and the decision was  to card everyone.                                                               
He stated he does not want to see a clerk have to pay $150.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
1:52:59 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KELLER  questioned whether Ms. Schroeder  is aware                                                               
of  laws on  the books  that have  dosages related  to them.   He                                                               
asked  if the  bill  would  be starting  something  that is  very                                                               
different ...  the exception was  made for drugs that  were being                                                               
refined but there  are a lot of items in  the local grocery store                                                               
that have a  recommended dosage and what kind of  criteria is the                                                               
legislature going to use for deciding to card for "that" one.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MS. SCHROEDER answered that  this is a bit of a  new thing but as                                                               
long as the  legislature has a rational basis for  doing this ...                                                               
the record has clearly established  a rational basis and it would                                                               
be fine.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
1:54:17 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  LEDOUX  surmised  that   Representative  Keller  might  be                                                               
pointing out  that it is  not necessarily  unconstitutional where                                                               
the rational basis would be  applied, but rather exactly where is                                                               
the  legislature  going.    She asked  whether  it  would  become                                                               
something in  the area of  a person looking  overweight shouldn't                                                               
be sold ice  cream and questioned whether the  committee is going                                                               
down that path.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. SCHROEDER  advised that should  the legislature go  down that                                                               
path  is solely  within  the  purview of  the  legislature.   She                                                               
opined that other states have tried  to limit access to soda, for                                                               
instance, and the issue has been before other legislatures.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
1:54:56 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE MILLETT  stated that  the point  here is  that the                                                               
sponsor is trying to protect children  under 18 who can walk into                                                               
a store and  buy something that will severely harm  them in large                                                               
doses because they  are attempting to get high.   She pointed out                                                               
that  there is  a  section of  kids using  this  in a  profoundly                                                               
harmful manner.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
1:55:44 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  KELLER responded  that  he has  no  doubt of  the                                                               
honorable intentions  of the  sponsor.  His  said his  concern is                                                               
the unintended consequences  that may be there with  this kind of                                                               
legislation.    He  asked  whether  the  sponsor  had  researched                                                               
whether  there  is a  possibility  of  a competing  drug  company                                                               
winning [a  lawsuit] due to  this legislation, and he  would like                                                               
to follow the money.  He  requested testimony from vendors of the                                                               
product.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR LEDOUX opened public testimony.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
1:57:27 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SEAN  MOORE,  Consumer  Healthcare Products  Association  (CHPA),                                                               
said  he was  testifying  on behalf  of  the Consumer  Healthcare                                                               
Products Association  (CHPA).   He said  that essentially  HB 125                                                               
prohibits the sale of  over-the-counter cough medicine containing                                                               
dextromethorphan (DXM) to  those under the age of 18.   He stated                                                               
that  CHPA   is  the   premier  trade   association  representing                                                               
manufacturers and  marketers for  over-the-counter medicine.   He                                                               
described DXM  as the  most widely used  cough depressant  on the                                                               
market  and  was  developed  in   the  1950s  as  a  non-narcotic                                                               
alternative to codeine cough medicine.   He described a small but                                                               
significant amount of teens use DXM  to get high by ingesting 25-                                                               
50 times the  recommended dose.  He pointed out  that 25 doses is                                                               
approximately 1.5,  5 ounce bottles  of cough syrup.   He advised                                                               
that a few  years ago the U.S. Food and  Drug Industry (FDA) came                                                               
to the  industry and  strongly encouraged it  to help  reduce the                                                               
rate  of abuse  otherwise the  federal government  would consider                                                               
more restrictive  action.  He  said that asking an  individual to                                                               
sign a log  book when purchasing Sudafed is an  effort to prevent                                                               
having to go  down that road for cough  medicine DXM, maintaining                                                               
access  for   millions  of  Americans  that   use  this  medicine                                                               
responsibly and controlling  it, and keeping it out  of the hands                                                               
of kids who are seeking to  intentionally abuse it.  He expressed                                                               
that this is  something CHPA members take very  seriously and are                                                               
engaged in a  multi-pronged effort to reduce the  number of teens                                                               
abusing  its products.   He  offered  that in  addition, CHPA  is                                                               
putting legislation such as this  and groups specializing in drug                                                               
abuse prevention  such as, the  partnership of  DrugFree.org, and                                                               
the  Community Anti-drug  Coalitions  of  America that  maintains                                                               
StopMedicineAbuse.org dedicated  to raise awareness  and teaching                                                               
parents to spot  signs of abuse.  He remarked  that to date eight                                                               
other states  have adopted age  18 restrictions and a  handful of                                                               
additional  states  are  considering  doing so  this  year.    He                                                               
highlighted that most national  retailers are already voluntarily                                                               
restricting  sales  to  children  so it  is  about  leveling  the                                                               
playing field  and providing a  statewide policy to  give parents                                                               
greater control over  the medicines to which  their children have                                                               
access.  He urged the committee's support for HB 125.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
2:00:34 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG requested written testimony.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR.  MOORE said  he would  submit written  testimony and  advised                                                               
that CHPA is represented locally by Mr. Eldon Mulder.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG  asked whether the language  in the bill                                                               
is model language he supplied, and  whether it is enforced in any                                                               
other state.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. MOORE replied that he  worked with Representative Millett and                                                               
Legislative Legal and Research to  craft the language to fit into                                                               
Alaska's  statutes.   He  reiterated that  this  policy has  been                                                               
adopted in eight other states.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG referred Mr. Moore  to page 1, lines 10-                                                               
11, and  asked whether the  language on the  "25 years of  age or                                                               
older" is in any other states.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. MOORE answered "Yes," it  is generally to provide some relief                                                               
for  people who  appear over  the  age of  25 not  having to  dig                                                               
through their wallet or through  their purse so they can purchase                                                               
the product, and are clearly over the  age of 18.  He opined that                                                               
most states use the "appearing to be over the age of 25."                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
2:02:33 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GRUENBERG   referred  to  the  manner   in  which                                                               
Alaska's alcohol  law have  evolved over a  long period  of time,                                                               
the trend  has been to  go the other way  and have a  bright line                                                               
procedure.  He noted there  are significant penalties against the                                                               
company  and the  employee if  there is  a violation.   He  asked                                                               
whether that  alternative approach  has been considered  in these                                                               
other states in attempting to protect the employees.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR.  MOORE  opined that  he  did  not  believe  CHPA does  has  a                                                               
position on  that being  included, as it  is attempting  to craft                                                               
this  legislation  with  as  little burden  as  possible  for  an                                                               
ordinary consumer.   Although, he related,  if it is the  will of                                                               
the committee  to remove that provision  and make it a  black and                                                               
white card everyone, CHPA would not be opposed.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
2:04:01 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  MILLETT referred  to [Sec.  1, AS  11.76.150(b)],                                                               
page 1, line 14, and page 2, lines 1-4, which read:                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
          (b) A seller, retailer, or vendor or an employee                                                                      
     of  a  seller, retailer,  or  vendor  who knowingly  or                                                                    
     willfully  violates   this  section  is  guilty   of  a                                                                    
     violation and is punishable by a fine of                                                                                   
               (1) $150 for the first violation; and                                                                            
          (2) for the second and subsequent violation.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE MILLETT opined that there is no intent ...                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG interjected "No absolute liability."                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  MILLETT  reiterated  that there  is  no  absolute                                                               
liability and  she would not mind  taking it out as  she does not                                                               
want to  kill the bill  due to this issue.   She opined  that the                                                               
disclaimer appears  on page 2,  line 1,  which sets the  bar less                                                               
than Representative Gruenberg's thinking on the bright line.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG said the issue could be dealt with.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
2:04:55 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CLAMAN remarked that recently  he was in a sister-                                                               
state and bought  a bottle of wine yet the  clerk did not request                                                               
his  identification  wherein Alaska  cards  everyone.   He  asked                                                               
whether other states may be more  relaxed in terms of alcohol and                                                               
giving the clerk authority to make a judgement call.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR.  MOORE advised  he is  not familiar  with tobacco  or alcohol                                                               
statutes of other  states.  He advised that  in Washington, D.C.,                                                               
he recalls  seeing signs  at the  register wherein  someone under                                                               
the age of 35 will be carded.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
2:06:50 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  KELLER noted  that he  was asked  if he  wanted a                                                               
senior  citizen discount.    He questioned  whether  part of  the                                                               
motivation for this in the other  states is the threat of federal                                                               
action, and questioned the source of that threat.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR. MOORE  submitted that  the FDA  monitored the  "future study"                                                               
which is  conducted annually  by the  National Institute  on Drug                                                               
Abuse.  He  said the numbers in 2008-2009 of  teens abusing cough                                                               
medicine intentionally to get high  were alarming to the FDA, and                                                               
the numbers  suggested the  trend was increasing.   In  2010, the                                                               
FDA held a hearing on the  matter and during that time considered                                                               
requiring  a prescription  for  DXM and  other  measures such  as                                                               
putting  it behind  the  counter, or  sign a  log  book, and  the                                                               
industry was opposed  to those measures.   The industry committed                                                               
to working  to bring those  abuse rates  down and, he  noted, the                                                               
FDA  strongly  encouraged the  industry  to  bring those  numbers                                                               
down.   He  pointed out  that this  is one  of the  parts of  its                                                               
strategy  including reaching  out to  parents, partnering  with a                                                               
number  of   organizations  whose  full  mission   is  to  reduce                                                               
substance abuse across  the country.  The industry  has seen some                                                               
success as the numbers are coming  down as a number of states are                                                               
adopting the age 18 restrictions.   He remarked that the industry                                                               
would  like to  think it  is due  also to  how it  ramped up  its                                                               
educational efforts  in bringing the  numbers down.   He believes                                                               
the industry  is on to  something and  it is the  right strategy.                                                               
He  added  to  his  prior  testimony that  not  only  does  cough                                                               
medicine contains  DXM, but it  also contains acetaminophen.   In                                                               
that case,  he related, if an  individual is taking 25  times the                                                               
recommended  dose,  the  individual  is receiving  25  times  the                                                               
recommended dose  which is  incredibly harmful  to the  liver and                                                               
potentially lethal.   He noted  that its  unintended consequences                                                               
is what caught the FDA's attention.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
2:10:27 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GRUENBERG   stated  his   hang  up  is   just  on                                                               
subsection  (2), as  the legal  standard is  on page  2, line  1,                                                               
"knowingly or willfully."  He said  he does not know how a person                                                               
can be  willful if they don't  know and the language  should read                                                               
only "knowingly."   In the event, the seller knows  the person is                                                               
under  the age  of [18],  they can  be tagged  with a  violation.                                                               
Although, the  standard on subsection  (2), he said is  "from the                                                               
person's outward  appearance a person would  reasonably presume."                                                               
He described a scenario where  a person reasonably presumed to be                                                               
under the  age of  25, but  couldn't be  tagged with  a violation                                                               
unless the  person actually knew  it.   There is a  difference in                                                               
standard there and he has seen 14-year old who look pretty old.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
2:12:14 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE MILLETT  remarked that  she would like  a friendly                                                               
amendment from  Representative Gruenberg at the  appropriate time                                                               
during the hearing.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GRUENBERG questioned  whether  Mr. Moore's  legal                                                               
team  knows whether  the defense  of age  supposed to  be on  the                                                               
defendant, or who  would have the burden of proof  on that issue.                                                               
He asked  how that is  interpreted in  the other states  with the                                                               
same statute.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. MOORE  responded that he  is not a  lawyer and does  not have                                                               
the expertise  in that  field, but  could ask  his legal  team to                                                               
provide the committee a letter at a later date.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
2:13:32 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR LEDOUX  quiered whether  most of the  misuse an  issue with                                                               
8th grade  kids through 16-years  of age.   She imagined  that at                                                               
about 16  the teens  start moving into  other things  rather than                                                               
cough medicine.   She asked about an 18-year old  with a driver's                                                               
license with a cough who can't buy cough syrup.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MS. ABBOTT  responded that the  bill does not restrict  all types                                                               
of cough syrup  which appears to be an  occasional sticking point                                                               
with this bill.   The bill exclusively puts the  onerous on cough                                                               
syrup containing DXM, with incredible sedative qualities.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR LEDOUX  reiterated that she was  asking how much of  a real                                                               
problem  is there  with kids  16-years of  age and  older because                                                               
this  problem seems  to be  with  really young  teen-agers.   She                                                               
opined that at  16 and older they are trying  to get booze rather                                                               
than cough medicine.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MS. ABBOTT deferred to Mr. Moore  and stated that the studies she                                                               
reviewed had  an age range including  kids over age 16  using the                                                               
medicine  as a  high.    However, the  age  range  was with  8-12                                                               
graders, including 18-year olds.   She stated she could not speak                                                               
to whether it stops at any point.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR. MOORE  responded that in  monitoring the "future  studies" he                                                               
referred to  earlier it covers  teens in grades  between 8th-12th                                                               
grades.  He pointed out that  in 2014, 12th graders were actually                                                               
twice as likely to abuse DXM as  an 8th grade student.  He stated                                                               
they  are seeing  it  in  older teens  of  which  is a  potential                                                               
gateway  to abusing  additional  substances down  the  road.   He                                                               
reiterated that they  are seeing a higher rate of  abuse in 16-18                                                               
year olds.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR LEDOUX  closed public testimony  after ascertaining  no one                                                               
further wished to testify.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
2:17:42 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR   LEDOUX   commented   with   respect   to   Representative                                                               
Gruenberg's concerns about the clerk  who may not tag someone 18-                                                               
20, is that  it would be easier  for the clerk.   She pointed out                                                               
that  a store  could  say that  everyone is  tagged  and ask  for                                                               
everyone's identification.  She pointed  out that when someone is                                                               
clearly over a  certain age, why do they have  to go through that                                                               
hassle.   She stated she would  leave the language the  way it is                                                               
in the bill.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
2:18:35 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  MILLETT  opined it  makes  it  easier for  retail                                                               
stores and pointed  out that "knowingly and willfully"  is in the                                                               
statutes, and that the language is fine as it is.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR LEDOUX  said she  would look at  the phrase  "knowingly and                                                               
willfully,"  in  that  it  does  not say  it  is  an  affirmative                                                               
defense.    She highlighted  that  the  laws generally  say  when                                                               
something  is  an  affirmative  defense  it is  set  out  in  the                                                               
statute.   She evaluated that it  is a burden on  law enforcement                                                               
to  show  that someone  "knowingly  and  willfully" violated  the                                                               
statute and  is not overly onerous  on the vendor.   She remarked                                                               
that  she is  not thrilled  with  the committee  making one  more                                                               
thing not  quite illegal,  but on  the hand  she is  not thrilled                                                               
with the alternative  which looks like it is going  to go the way                                                               
of Sudafed and  be behind the counter.  She  pointed out that she                                                               
hates to accede to the  will of the federal government, sometimes                                                               
there is the reality.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
2:20:30 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KELLER  referred to a  statement that there  are a                                                               
large number of  products containing DXM, and "you"  say it's not                                                               
onerous but the  store has to sort these things  out and set them                                                               
aside because  otherwise the clerk  will not be reading  the fine                                                               
print just  because a kid  is underage.   He questioned  how many                                                               
products the bill speaking to, and what about the labeling.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  LEDOUX  remarked that  Representative  Keller  has a  good                                                               
point.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
2:21:11 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE MILLETT stated that  [cash registers] can be keyed                                                               
to alert  the cashier  that identification  is required,  such as                                                               
tobacco or magazines.  She  offered that stores can code products                                                               
with DXM which alerts the cashier.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR LEDOUX asked if the bill has been in other committees.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE MILLETT replied "No."                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  MILLETT answered  Chair  LeDoux that  it is  next                                                               
going to the floor.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
2:21:58 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE MILLETT  responded to  Chair LeDoux that  she will                                                               
check with the retailer's association  to determine whether it is                                                               
overly burdensome for them and get  back to her before it goes to                                                               
the floor.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR LEDOUX answered that she  would like Representative Millett                                                               
to do that.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
2:22:13 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  MILLETT responded  to Representative  Keller that                                                               
she  will  also  ask  the   National  Federation  of  Independent                                                               
Businesses (NFIB) to see if they have a position on the bill.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
2:22:24 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  CLAMAN  commented  that he  broadly  agrees  with                                                               
Chair  LeDoux in  that the  notion  it will  start shifting  into                                                               
everyone being  carded does  become onerous for  a business.   He                                                               
advised he  googled the ingredients  for Robitussin Cold  & Cough                                                               
medicine which includes  Pseudoephedrine and DXM all  in the same                                                               
drug.  He noted that the  concept of shifting into more drugs the                                                               
public will  be carded for is  a challenge for retailers  and the                                                               
public.   Yet,  he remarked,  at  the same  time this  is a  real                                                               
concern as there are kids  abusing these medications and there is                                                               
no  easy solution.    He opined  the bill  is  well intended  but                                                               
eventually  there  may  be 15  different  cough  medicines  going                                                               
behind the counter.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
2:24:26 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  MILLETT  advised that  Mr.  Moore  is a  retailer                                                               
representative  also  and  that  Fred  Meyers  and  Carrs/Safeway                                                               
Alaska Operations  are already  doing this for  DXM.   She opined                                                               
that if  it is  onerous there would  not voluntary  compliance as                                                               
possibly they saw the writing on  the wall.  She advised she will                                                               
check with NFIB.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
2:24:59 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  KELLER  moved  to  report HB  125,  labelled  29-                                                               
LS0544\A  out of  committee with  individual recommendations  and                                                               
the accompanying fiscal  notes.  There being no  objection HB 125                                                               
moved out of the House Judiciary Standing Committee.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
2:25:29 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
ADJOURNMENT                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
There being no  further business before the  committee, the House                                                               
Judiciary Standing Committee meeting was adjourned at 2:25 P.M.                                                                 

Document Name Date/Time Subjects
HB0125A.PDF HJUD 4/9/2015 1:00:00 PM
HB 125
HB125 Fiscal Note - LAW.pdf HJUD 4/9/2015 1:00:00 PM
HB 125
HB125 Letter of Support CHPA.pdf HJUD 4/9/2015 1:00:00 PM
HB 125
HB125 Sponsor Statement.pdf HJUD 4/9/2015 1:00:00 PM
HB 125
HB125 Support Document Age 18 DXM Restriction States.pdf HJUD 4/9/2015 1:00:00 PM
HB 125
HB125 Support Document Know Your Medicine Cabinet.pdf HJUD 4/9/2015 1:00:00 PM
HB 125
SB43 Sponsor Statement.pdf HJUD 4/9/2015 1:00:00 PM
SB 43
SB43 Letter of Support - AFD.pdf HJUD 4/9/2015 1:00:00 PM
SB 43
SB43 Fiscal Note 1.PDF HJUD 4/9/2015 1:00:00 PM
SB 43
SB43 Fiscal Note 2.PDF HJUD 4/9/2015 1:00:00 PM
SB 43
SB43 Letter of Support - City of Fairbanks.pdf HJUD 4/9/2015 1:00:00 PM
SB 43
SB43 Letter of Support - Fire Chiefs Assoc..pdf HJUD 4/9/2015 1:00:00 PM
SB 43
SB43 Letter of Support - FNSB.pdf HJUD 4/9/2015 1:00:00 PM
SB 43
SB43 Letter of Support - Interior Fire Chiefs.pdf HJUD 4/9/2015 1:00:00 PM
SB 43
SB43 Summary of Changes.pdf HJUD 4/9/2015 1:00:00 PM
SB 43
SB43 ver P.pdf HJUD 4/9/2015 1:00:00 PM
SB 43