Legislature(2005 - 2006)CAPITOL 120

05/05/2006 01:00 PM JUDICIARY

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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
-- Rescheduled from 05/04/06 --
Moved CSHB 316(JUD) Out of Committee
Moved HCS CSSB 206(JUD) Out of Committee
Moved HCS CSSB 134(JUD) Out of Committee
+ Bills Previously Heard/Scheduled TELECONFERENCED
SB 134 - PILOT PROJECT: SEX OFFENSE VICTIMS RIGHTS                                                                            
1:05:43 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR McGUIRE announced that the  next order of business would be                                                               
CS FOR  SENATE BILL  NO. 134(JUD),  "An Act  relating to  a pilot                                                               
project  to  review  and   investigate  certain  complaints  from                                                               
victims of sexual assault in the  first degree or sexual abuse of                                                               
a  minor  in  the  first degree  concerning  actions  of  justice                                                               
1:05:57 PM                                                                                                                    
LAUREN   RICE,  Staff   to  Senator   Con  Bunde,   Alaska  State                                                               
Legislature,  sponsor,  presented SB  134  on  behalf of  Senator                                                               
Bunde.    She  explained  that   SB  134  came  about  because  a                                                               
constituent who  was a  sexual assault victim  could not  get her                                                               
phone calls  to the  police returned.   Currently, such  a victim                                                               
has no other recourse if she  is not getting sufficient help from                                                               
the police.   Senate Bill 134  will [via a pilot  project] expand                                                               
the responsibilities  and investigation  rights of the  Office of                                                               
Victims'  Rights  (OVR)  in  order  that it  may  look  into  the                                                               
investigation portion  of a  sexual assault  in the  first degree                                                               
case or a sexual  abuse of a minor in the  first degree case, and                                                               
serve as  an advocate  for the  victim through  the investigation                                                               
phase and  the court proceedings.   She concluded by  noting that                                                               
[CSSB 134(JUD)] has  the support of the Department  of Law (DOL),                                                               
the Department of Public Safety (DPS), and the OVR.                                                                             
1:07:19 PM                                                                                                                    
MARY  ANNE  HENRY, Director,  Office  of  Victims' Rights  (OVR),                                                               
Alaska State  Legislature, characterizing the current  version of                                                               
SB 134 as  a good bill, she  opined that the OVR would  be in the                                                               
best  position  to [institute  the  proposed  pilot program  and]                                                               
investigate complaints  arising from  the aforementioned  type of                                                               
cases  not  being investigated  by  the  police  in a  timely  or                                                               
complete manner.   At the end  of August 2008, at  the conclusion                                                               
of the  pilot program and its  study of complaints going  back to                                                               
mid-2003,  the OVR  will provide  the legislature  with a  report                                                               
outlining any problems found as  well as any potential solutions.                                                               
In  conclusion, she  expressed her  willingness to  institute the                                                               
pilot project and conduct the study.                                                                                            
CHAIR  McGUIRE, after  ascertaining that  no one  else wished  to                                                               
testify, closed public testimony on SB 134.                                                                                     
REPRESENTATIVE  GRUENBERG asked  how  victims will  learn of  the                                                               
OVR's new  responsibility to investigate the  aforementioned type                                                               
of complaint.                                                                                                                   
MS.  RICE  relayed  that  currently   various  shelters  and  law                                                               
enforcement agencies  provide victims with information  about the                                                               
OVR via  a pamphlet, and  so the  hope is that  information about                                                               
the  proposed pilot  program and  the OVR's  new responsibilities                                                               
will also be distributed in that same manner.                                                                                   
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG  surmised, then, that the  bill contains                                                               
no requirement  that the OVR  take specific action to  notify the                                                               
public  about  the  pilot  program   and  its  new  investigative                                                               
responsibilities.   He asked what  steps the OVR intends  to take                                                               
in that regard.                                                                                                                 
MS. HENRY  relayed that  one option that  was discussed,  but not                                                               
adopted, in a  prior committee was for law  enforcement to simply                                                               
provide  the OVR  with a  copy  of all  police reports  involving                                                               
instances of sexual assault or sexual  abuse of a minor.  In lieu                                                               
of that,  however, the  OVR intends  to undertake  an advertising                                                               
campaign that  would include providing information  in the Alaska                                                             
Bar Rag and various newspapers,  as well as to shelter personnel,                                                             
private  attorneys, police  academy  trainees, first  responders,                                                               
and  nurse  aides  so  that   they  can  advise  victims  of  the                                                               
opportunity to seek assistance from the OVR.                                                                                    
1:13:14 PM                                                                                                                    
MS. HENRY,  in response to a  question, relayed that the  DOL was                                                               
opposed,  on  the  basis  of protecting  the  privacy  rights  of                                                               
victims, to simply  having the front sheet of  all police reports                                                               
of the  aforementioned crimes sent to  the OVR - the  front sheet                                                               
would show  that a rape  had been reported  and the names  of the                                                               
defendant  and victim.    Her initial  thought  was that  without                                                               
something along those lines occurring,  the OVR won't have a very                                                               
good statistical  base for the  pilot project's study if  the OVR                                                               
simply waits for  victims to come to the  OVR, particularly given                                                               
that  under current  statute, the  OVR must  wait for  victims to                                                               
come  to  it  for  help.    She  noted,  for  example,  that  the                                                               
aforementioned constituent who was  having difficulties getting a                                                               
response from  the police  hadn't gone  to the OVR  at all.   She                                                               
said   that  the   OVR  understands   the  DOL's   concern  about                                                               
confidentiality  and  so would  therefore  only  use the  numbers                                                               
gleaned from  the front sheets  for statistical purposes  as they                                                               
relate  to the  report  that the  OVR will  be  providing to  the                                                               
REPRESENTATIVE  GRUENBERG  indicated  a willingness  to  offer  a                                                               
conceptual amendment to  that effect, and asked  Ms. Rice whether                                                               
the sponsor would be amenable to such a change.                                                                                 
MS.  RICE said  she  wasn't  able to  answer  that question,  but                                                               
acknowledged that  there are  valid points on  both sides  of the                                                               
argument.   Victims  must be  afforded privacy  and yet  doing so                                                               
could make  it hard for the  OVR to determine how  many cases are                                                               
being  reported versus  how many  cases  are being  investigated,                                                               
particularly  in rural  areas,  unless some  action  is taken  to                                                               
ensure that statistical information is provided to the OVR.                                                                     
CHAIR   McGUIRE,   in   response   to   comments,   offered   her                                                               
understanding  that one  of the  DOL's concerns  with having  all                                                               
police reports faxed  to the OVR is that the  OVR would then have                                                               
the  ability to  contact  the  victim and  that  may violate  the                                                               
victim's privacy rights.                                                                                                        
MS. RICE, in response to  comments and questions, reiterated that                                                               
law   enforcement  agencies   currently   provide  victims   with                                                               
information about the OVR via a pamphlet.                                                                                       
MS.  HENRY,  to  further  clarify, explained  that  officers  are                                                               
required to  give victims information  about the OVR, but  at the                                                               
time of most  assaults, victims are not thinking  about what kind                                                               
of  future  help  they  might  need from  the  OVR  and  so  that                                                               
information probably goes by the wayside.                                                                                       
CHAIR  McGUIRE  indicated  that  she  shares  the  DOL's  concern                                                               
regarding confidentiality.                                                                                                      
MS. RICE  clarified that  there is no  intention of  allowing the                                                               
OVR to  contact the victim  unless the victim  initiates contact.                                                               
Instead,   the  OVR   could   simply   be  provided   statistical                                                               
information when crimes involving  sexual assault or sexual abuse                                                               
of a minor occur.                                                                                                               
CHAIR  McGUIRE  suggested that  the  front  sheet of  the  police                                                               
report  could   simply  have   certain  information   redacted  -                                                               
information such as the victim's name.                                                                                          
1:20:39 PM                                                                                                                    
ANNE  CARPENETI,  Assistant   Attorney  General,  Legal  Services                                                               
Section-Juneau,  Criminal  Division,  Department  of  Law  (DOL),                                                               
indicated that  that proposal is  more acceptable  than providing                                                               
the OVR with victims' names.                                                                                                    
MS.  HENRY, in  response  to comments,  attempted  to assure  the                                                               
committee  that  the  OVR  doesn't  intend to  call  any  of  the                                                               
victims,  and  would  instead  only   be  using  the  statistical                                                               
information  to   assist  with   its  study   and  investigations                                                               
regarding  whether law  enforcement  adequately and  in a  timely                                                               
fashion investigates  sexual assault or  sexual abuse of  a minor                                                               
cases.  She  said she would be amenable to  having victims' names                                                               
redacted; another  option would  be for  law enforcement  to send                                                               
the OVR "everything"  and the OVR would simply  continue to abide                                                               
by its  own confidentiality requirements.   She surmised, though,                                                               
that  law  enforcement agencies  are  probably  not going  to  be                                                               
thrilled with having to fax sexual assault reports to the OVR.                                                                  
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG  suggested that another option  would be                                                               
to encourage law enforcement officers  to provide victims with an                                                               
additional pamphlet of information about  the OVR during a follow                                                               
up visit.                                                                                                                       
MS. CARPENETI said she would have  no objection to such though it                                                               
would be up to law  enforcement agencies to consider that option;                                                               
furthermore,  the  OVR  would have  to  provide  law  enforcement                                                               
agencies with additional pamphlets.                                                                                             
MS. HENRY said she would be fine with such a change.                                                                            
MS.  CARPENETI, in  response to  a question,  confirmed that  law                                                               
enforcement  officers  are  required   to  provide  victims  with                                                               
information about the OVR, and  noted that they are not forbidden                                                               
from giving it more than once.                                                                                                  
MS. HENRY suggested making it  a requirement that law enforcement                                                               
provide the aforementioned pamphlets more than once.                                                                            
REPRESENTATIVE  GRUENBERG   raised  the   issue  of   a  possible                                                               
conceptual amendment to that effect.                                                                                            
1:26:12 PM                                                                                                                    
MS. RICE said that that idea  has merit, but pointed out that the                                                               
thrust of  the bill is  to address the  fact that Alaska  has the                                                               
highest  rate of  sexual  assault  and sexual  abuse  of a  minor                                                               
crimes in the nation while  simultaneously having the lowest rate                                                               
of  arrest  for  such  crimes  - number  one  and  number  fifty,                                                               
respectively.  Furthermore, she remarked,  she has a concern that                                                               
because part of the problem appears  to be that the police aren't                                                               
following through with  their investigations in such  cases - the                                                               
police aren't making any follow  up visits and aren't returning a                                                               
victim's  phone calls  - then  the  victim isn't  going get  that                                                               
extra  pamphlet.    Therefore,   in  addition  to  requiring  law                                                               
enforcement  officers to  provide  victims  with OVR  information                                                               
more than once, it might be  best to also require law enforcement                                                               
agencies to  fax the OVR  simple statistical information  such as                                                               
that a  rape has occurred,  the time  that it was  reported, [and                                                               
the  location  at  which  it  occurred].    Such  information  is                                                               
important  for the  OVR  to have  as it  conducts  its study  and                                                               
investigations  - the  OVR must  have the  opportunity to  gather                                                               
real data.                                                                                                                      
CHAIR McGUIRE concurred.                                                                                                        
MS. CARPENETI said:                                                                                                             
     Although I  think it's  a good idea  and I  think maybe                                                                    
     police  departments  do  this  now  -  follow  up  with                                                                    
     information -  requiring them  to do  so in  statute is                                                                    
     probably not necessary because  ... it probably doesn't                                                                    
     apply in  ... all  cases.  And  the police  are working                                                                    
     pretty  hard  anyway -  they're  not  going to  miss  a                                                                    
     chance to inform victims, I think.                                                                                         
MS. HENRY,  in response to  the question,  said she would  like a                                                               
conceptual  amendment to  say  that all  law  enforcement in  the                                                               
state must fax the following information  to the OVR:  the report                                                               
of a sexual  assault in the first  degree or a sexual  abuse of a                                                               
minor in  the first degree, the  date of the offense,  the police                                                               
report number, and the officer assigned.                                                                                        
MS. CARPENETI, in response to  a question, expressed a preference                                                               
for  having  that  suggested   conceptual  amendment  applied  to                                                               
uncodified law, since it pertains to a pilot program.                                                                           
1:30:04 PM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE  GRUENBERG  made  a  motion  to  adopt  Conceptual                                                               
Amendment 1,  to add to  uncodified law  the language:   "All ...                                                               
investigating law  enforcement personnel  must fax  the following                                                               
information to  [the] OVR:  ...  [the report of a  sexual assault                                                               
in the  first degree or  a sexual abuse of  a minor in  the first                                                               
degree], the  date [of  the offense],  the police  report number,                                                               
and the officer assigned.                                                                                                       
REPRESENTATIVE ANDERSON objected,  characterized that language as                                                               
cumbersome, and  asked whether law  enforcement has had  a chance                                                               
to weigh in on this issue.                                                                                                      
MS.  RICE relayed  that the  DPS and  the DOL  worked closely  to                                                               
draft the  bill, and, to the  best of her knowledge,  both, along                                                               
with the  Anchorage Police  Department (APD),  are in  support of                                                               
the bill in its current form.                                                                                                   
CHAIR McGUIRE observed that if  this committee adopted Conceptual                                                               
Amendment  1, and  [the APD]  then voiced  concern, the  language                                                               
could be removed in the bill's next committee of referral.                                                                      
REPRESENTATIVE ANDERSON removed his objection.                                                                                  
REPRESENTATIVE COGHILL objected, and  expressed concern over what                                                               
the  OVR's  investigation might  involve,  and  whether it  could                                                               
impede  a  police  investigation  or  cause  difficulty  for  the                                                               
1:34:39 PM                                                                                                                    
MS. HENRY  again pointed out that  the purpose of the  bill is to                                                               
[authorize the  OVR to] find out  if there are problems  with the                                                               
way  police  investigations  of  the  aforementioned  crimes  are                                                               
currently being  conducted, so the  OVR would simply  be tracking                                                               
how  such   investigations  are   coming  along  and   whether  a                                                               
particular  case  has been  declined  for  prosecution, so  there                                                               
shouldn't  be a  concern that  someone will  be convicted  before                                                               
having a chance to go to  trial or before charges are even filed.                                                               
The  OVR  will  essentially  be  investigating  whether  officers                                                               
simply need  more training,  whether they  are just  dropping the                                                               
ball, or whether  there are other factors coming into  play.  She                                                               
noted that  particularly for  crimes that  occur in  villages, if                                                               
the police  drop the investigation  without good reason,  even if                                                               
the  victim is  somewhat relieved  and has  no interest  in going                                                               
forward with  the case, the OVR  will still want to  know why the                                                               
investigation  was  dropped but  isn't  going  to want  to  start                                                               
something up again with the victim.                                                                                             
MS. CARPENETI said  she would hesitate to  insert the requirement                                                               
proposed by Conceptual Amendment 1  before having had a chance to                                                               
consult with police agencies.                                                                                                   
MS.  RICE  said  that  although  she  understands  Representative                                                               
Coghill  concerns,  if  it  is   clear  that  the  aforementioned                                                               
information being faxed to the OVR  must have the names - both of                                                               
the  victim and  of the  alleged  perpetrator -  and all  contact                                                               
information  redacted,  it  shouldn't  be  cumbersome  or  breach                                                               
confidentiality.   The problem  in Alaska  is severe  enough, she                                                               
opined, that  they must try  alternative methods of  gaining real                                                               
information regarding  investigations.   She also  mentioned that                                                               
only 3  percent of reported  rapes turn  out to consist  of false                                                               
REPRESENTATIVE  COGHILL   noted  that  there  is   a  dearth  law                                                               
enforcement in certain areas of  the state, and indicated that he                                                               
is not  willing to  have attention  focused on  the investigation                                                               
procedures of just  this one type of case,  particularly when the                                                               
problem may stem from a lack  of manpower or peer pressure within                                                               
a community.                                                                                                                    
1:39:43 PM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE    GRUENBERG    suggested   changing    Conceptual                                                               
Amendment 1 such that  the required information would  be sent to                                                               
the  OVR later  in the  process, since  it is  merely statistical                                                               
information the OVR is seeking.                                                                                                 
MS. HENRY  said providing the  OVR with the  aforementioned types                                                               
of   information  later   in  the   process  wouldn't   alleviate                                                               
situations wherein the victim never  hears from the police again.                                                               
In  such situations,  what is  the likelihood  that the  OVR will                                                               
ever be informed of the case?                                                                                                   
REPRESENTATIVE  GRUENBERG  argued that  the  OVR  would still  be                                                               
notified that  there has been a  report, the date of  the report,                                                               
the  number   of  the   report,  and   the  officer   assigned  -                                                               
notification just wouldn't occur right at the outset.                                                                           
CHAIR McGUIRE  spoke of  a circumstance in  Nome wherein  a woman                                                               
was murdered by  a police officer, a police officer  who had been                                                               
involved  in   multiple  [sexual]  assaults  of   women  in  that                                                               
community  over a  long period  of  time.   If a  woman is  being                                                               
assaulted by  the very people she  is supposed to report  such an                                                               
assault to, what is her recourse  if those people never follow up                                                               
on  the  investigation and  she  doesn't  know  that the  OVR  is                                                               
available to help?  Chair  McGuire said she doesn't disagree that                                                               
Conceptual Amendment 1 might create  a ministerial burden for the                                                               
police, but the state must  start gathering information regarding                                                               
why the state has these incredibly  high rates of sexual abuse of                                                               
a  minor   and  sexual  assault  cases   but  embarrassingly  low                                                               
conviction rates;  furthermore, SB 134 merely  authorizes a pilot                                                               
program with  a sunset  date, and  so if there  is a  chance that                                                               
[Conceptual  Amendment 1]  can help  the  state, it  ought to  be                                                               
REPRESENTATIVE COGHILL removed his objection.                                                                                   
MS. HENRY,  in response to  a question, indicated that  she would                                                               
like  to have  the aforementioned  information faxed  to the  OVR                                                               
within two weeks of the date the report was made.                                                                               
REPRESENTATIVE  GRUENBERG called  that  timeframe stipulation  an                                                               
amendment to Conceptual Amendment 1.                                                                                            
CHAIR  McGUIRE asked  whether there  were any  objections to  the                                                               
amendment  to   Conceptual  Amendment  1.     There  being  none,                                                               
Conceptual Amendment 1 was amended.                                                                                             
CHAIR McGUIRE  then asked  whether there  were any  objections to                                                               
Conceptual  Amendment   1,  as   amended.    There   being  none,                                                               
Conceptual Amendment 1, as amended, was adopted.                                                                                
1:44:30 PM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE  GRUENBERG  made  a  motion  to  adopt  Conceptual                                                               
Amendment  2,  to  change  statute   such  that  law  enforcement                                                               
officers must give OVR information  to victims at each subsequent                                                               
MS.  RICE  offered  her  belief   that  having  such  information                                                               
distributed  during either  the first  and/or the  second contact                                                               
ought to be sufficient.                                                                                                         
MS. HENRY said that would be fine.                                                                                              
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG restated the  motion to adopt Conceptual                                                               
Amendment  2,  to  change  statute   such  that  law  enforcement                                                               
officers must  give OVR information  to victims at the  first and                                                               
second contact.                                                                                                                 
CHAIR McGUIRE mentioned  that she is not sure  what statute would                                                               
be changed as a result of adopting Conceptual Amendment 2.                                                                      
MS. CARPENETI  said she would  like to hear from  law enforcement                                                               
on this  issue, though  it seems  like it wouldn't  be much  of a                                                               
burden to give the OVR information to victims a second time.                                                                    
CHAIR McGUIRE  committed to  contacting law  enforcement agencies                                                               
between  now and  the time  the bill  gets to  the House  Finance                                                               
Committee regarding  what their thoughts  are on this  issue, and                                                               
then, if their  input is that it will create  too great a burden,                                                               
this additional language could be removed in that committee.                                                                    
CHAIR  McGUIRE  asked  whether   there  were  any  objections  to                                                               
Conceptual   Amendment  2.      There   being  none,   Conceptual                                                               
Amendment 2 was adopted.                                                                                                        
1:48:28 PM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE GARA  made a  motion to  adopt Amendment  3, which                                                               
read [original punctuation provided]:                                                                                           
     Page 2, line 17                                                                                                            
          following "action"                                                                                                    
         "including recommendations, if pertinent, for                                                                          
     action to address law enforcement personnel shortages                                                                      
     in both urban & rural areas in this state."                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ANDERSON objected for purposes of discussion.                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE GARA  indicated that  Amendment 3 pertains  to the                                                               
report  the  OVR  will  be presenting  to  the  legislature,  and                                                               
suggested that one  cause for the problem could be  a shortage of                                                               
law enforcement officers,  adding that it would be  useful if the                                                               
report produced by  the OVR confirmed that such is  the case.  He                                                               
remarked:   "Until you hire  police officers, and until  you have                                                               
enough law enforcement,  I don't think you're ever  going to make                                                               
real progress in the area of crime deterrence."                                                                                 
MS. RICE surmised that the  sponsor would have comments regarding                                                               
that issue,  particularly as it  relates to local  governments in                                                               
unorganized areas of  the state.  She  offered her understanding,                                                               
however, that  the DPS has  worked hard to recruit  personnel and                                                               
has the funding to hire  more law enforcement officers; therefore                                                               
it  is  not  an  issue  of  the  state  not  attempting  to  fill                                                               
REPRESENTATIVE COGHILL  suggested that the  OVR is not  the right                                                               
entity to  be making  law enforcement  personnel recommendations,                                                               
and indicated that he would be opposing Amendment 3.                                                                            
REPRESENTATIVE GARA said that Amendment  3 would not be requiring                                                               
the  OVR to  find  a  solution to  the  lack  of law  enforcement                                                               
personnel; instead, the  OVR would simply be  required to provide                                                               
recommendations  on  that  issue  in   its  report  if  it  seems                                                               
1:53:53 PM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE COGHILL  offered his belief that  the report could                                                               
contain  such information  anyway, and  reiterated that  he would                                                               
not be supporting Amendment 3.                                                                                                  
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG  said that Amendment 3  might be helpful                                                               
and won't do any harm.                                                                                                          
REPRESENTATIVE COGHILL  indicated that he doesn't  want the OVR's                                                               
report  to  become  "the report"  on  law  enforcement  personnel                                                               
issues, and suggested that Amendment  3 might change the scope of                                                               
the proposed study.                                                                                                             
CHAIR McGUIRE  opined that  language in  the bill  already grants                                                               
the  OVR  the   opportunity  to  say  why  it   thinks  that  the                                                               
aforementioned  types of  cases  aren't being  investigated in  a                                                               
timely  or complete  manner, whereas  Amendment 3  could be  more                                                               
broadly construed.                                                                                                              
REPRESENTATIVE GARA made a motion  to amend Amendment 3 such that                                                               
the  phrase  "if  pertinent"  is   changed  to,  "if  the  office                                                               
determines  it   is  pertinent".    There   being  no  objection,                                                               
Amendment 3 was amended.                                                                                                        
REPRESENTATIVE GARA made a motion  to again amend Amendment 3, as                                                               
amended,  such that  the phrase  "urban  & rural"  is changed  to                                                               
"urban  or rural".   There  being no  objection, Amendment  3, as                                                               
amended, was again amended.                                                                                                     
MS. RICE said she is not  sure that Amendment 3, as amended, fits                                                               
within  the intent  of the  bill  or is  in line  with the  OVR's                                                               
original charge, which is to serve as victim advocate.                                                                          
1:59:20 PM                                                                                                                    
A roll call  vote was taken.  Representatives  Gruenberg and Gara                                                               
voted  in favor  of  Amendment 3,  as  amended.   Representatives                                                               
McGuire,   Kott,  Coghill,   and  Anderson   voted  against   it.                                                               
Therefore, Amendment 3, as amended, failed by a vote of 2-4.                                                                    
CHAIR  McGUIRE, notwithstanding  the failure  of Amendment  3, as                                                               
amended,  to be  adopted,  indicated that  the legislature  would                                                               
still  like  the  OVR's  report to  the  legislature  to  include                                                               
information  on  law enforcement  personnel  and  staffing if  it                                                               
finds that  such issues have contributed  to a lack of  timely or                                                               
complete investigations of the aforementioned types of cases.                                                                   
2:00:07 PM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE  KOTT   made  a   motion  to   adopt  [Conceptual]                                                               
Amendment 4,  to change  page 2,  line 15,  such that  the report                                                               
shall be  presented to the legislature  on the first day  of [the                                                               
first session  of] the  26th legislature,  [which would  start in                                                               
January  of   2009].    There  being   no  objection,  Conceptual                                                               
Amendment 4 was adopted.                                                                                                        
2:02:57 PM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE  ANDERSON  moved  to   report  CSSB  134(JUD),  as                                                               
amended,  out of  committee with  individual recommendations  and                                                               
the accompanying fiscal notes.                                                                                                  
REPRESENTATIVE  GARA  objected  for the  purpose  of  discussion,                                                               
offered  observations   on  what   occurs  in   Senate  committee                                                               
hearings, and then removed his objection.                                                                                       
CHAIR McGUIRE asked whether there  were any further objections to                                                               
reporting CSSB  134(JUD), as  amended, out  of committee.   There                                                               
being  none,  HCS  CSSB  134(JUD) was  reported  from  the  House                                                               
Judiciary Standing Committee.                                                                                                   

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