Legislature(2005 - 2006)

04/01/2005 02:09 PM JUD

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02:09:06 PM Start
02:09:14 PM HB54
02:10:07 PM HB184
02:52:15 PM HB12
03:05:42 PM Presentation on Sex Trafficking by Leslie R. Wolfe, Ph.d., President, Center for Women Policy Studies
03:45:55 PM HB148
03:56:20 PM HB101
04:13:46 PM Adjourn
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HB 184 - MUNICIPAL FIREARM ORDINANCES                                                                                         
2:10:07 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR McGUIRE announced  that the next order of  business would be                                                              
HOUSE BILL NO. 184, "An Act relating to firearms."                                                                              
2:10:56 PM                                                                                                                    
ERICH  DeLAND,  Staff  to  Representative   Mike  Chenault,  House                                                              
Finance  Committee, Alaska  State  Legislature,  sponsor, said  on                                                              
behalf  of  Representative  Chenault   that  HB  184  prohibits  a                                                              
municipality from overriding state law on the issue of firearms.                                                                
WALT   MONEGAN,   Chief,  Anchorage   Police   Department   (APD),                                                              
Municipality of Anchorage  (MOA), said he has two  issues to raise                                                              
regarding  HB 184, one  of them  being that  the bill could  cloud                                                              
existing  law  and  policy  as  they  pertain  to  weapons.    For                                                              
example, if a group  of youths are driving down  the road shooting                                                              
firearms  out  of  their  vehicle,   that  behavior  is  currently                                                              
covered by  local municipal  law - discharging  a weapon  within a                                                              
municipality -  but state law  stipulates that the  behavior would                                                              
have to take place  on a highway and that the  behavior would have                                                              
to endanger someone before it would be covered.                                                                                 
MR.  MONEGAN  said that  similarly,  there  is a  local  Anchorage                                                              
ordinance prohibiting  firearms in  municipal buildings,  and that                                                              
that ordinance  might no longer  be enforceable after  the passage                                                              
of HB  184, since  no such  prohibition  exists in  state law.   A                                                              
bigger issue,  however, is that passage  of HB 184 could  affect a                                                              
local government's  ability to govern itself, which  in turn could                                                              
complicate  the  issue of  rural  law  enforcement staffing.    If                                                              
local governments  decide to  do away with  local laws and  opt to                                                              
follow only state  laws, then the state will end  up having to pay                                                              
for expanded  law enforcement into  Bush areas, and there  will be                                                              
less money  available for education  and other items  that promote                                                              
peaceful  communities.   He asked  the committee  to consider  the                                                              
possible  unintended  consequences,  the backlash,  of  mitigating                                                              
local governments' rights.                                                                                                      
2:14:49 PM                                                                                                                    
BRIAN  JUDY,  Alaska  State  Liaison,  Institute  for  Legislative                                                              
Action, National  Rifle Association  of America  (NRA), urged  the                                                              
committee to  support HB 184, adding  that it will  strengthen and                                                              
broaden the  existing "Alaska  state firearm preemption  statute."                                                              
He  offered  his  understanding  that  current  [state]  law  only                                                              
narrowly limits a  local government's ability to  impose two types                                                              
of restrictions,  one pertaining  to the right  to own  or possess                                                              
firearms   within  a  residence,   and  one   pertaining   to  the                                                              
transportation   of  unloaded  firearms.     Any  other   type  of                                                              
restriction  may be  imposed by  local  municipalities.   Further,                                                              
existing   [state]  law   allows  local   governments  to   create                                                              
restrictions   in  the  aforementioned   two  categories   if  the                                                              
restrictions are  ratified by  the voters.   He said that  the NRA                                                              
doesn't think  that this  stipulation is  right; the  fundamental,                                                              
constitutional  rights of a  minority should  not be limited  just                                                              
because  a  majority   of  voters  support  the   ratification  of                                                              
MR. JUDY  opined that  HB 184 will  provide for a  standardization                                                              
of  all firearms  laws throughout  the state,  based upon  current                                                              
and future  statutes enacted  by the legislature.   The  bill will                                                              
make null  and void  any local  ordinances that  are more  or less                                                              
restrictive than  current state law.   He attempted to  assure the                                                              
committee that HB  184 would in no way lessen the  current body of                                                              
federal and  state firearms  laws., and  mentioned that  there are                                                              
"at least  seven and  half pages of  specific state  laws" dealing                                                              
with  misconduct  involving  weapons.    The  problem  with  local                                                              
firearm ordinances,  he opined, is one of sheer  variety; where no                                                              
uniform  state laws  are in  place, the  result can  be a  complex                                                              
patchwork   of   restrictions   that   change   from   one   local                                                              
jurisdiction to the next.                                                                                                       
MR. JUDY  offered his  belief that  it is  unreasonable to  expect                                                              
people,  whether  they  are  residents  or visitors  from  out  of                                                              
state,  to know  a myriad  of varying  laws.   Where  inconsistent                                                              
laws are  in place, law-abiding  citizens with no  criminal intent                                                              
are  placed in  jeopardy  of running  afoul  of restrictions  they                                                              
don't even  know exist.  Further,  he remarked,  antigun proposals                                                              
and  restrictive ordinances  at  the local  level threaten  honest                                                              
firearm owners'  rights and the fundamental American  principle of                                                              
equal protection  under the law.   Necessary criminal  laws should                                                              
be enacted  at the state level,  because a uniform  application of                                                              
law treats  all citizens fairly  and because all citizens  in this                                                              
state should benefit  from and be protected equally  by those laws                                                              
which are determined to be needed.                                                                                              
MR.  JUDY,  in  conclusion,  said  that  HB  184  will  allow  law                                                              
enforcement to  concentrate on "the  real criminal  element," that                                                              
enforcement  of  unwitting  violations  by  otherwise  law-abiding                                                              
citizens  diverts scarce  law enforcement  resources.  To  prevent                                                              
the  problems associated  with  restrictive  local ordinances,  44                                                              
states  have enacted  "firearm  preemption  laws"  similar to  [HB
184], he  remarked, adding that  existing Alaska law is  among the                                                              
weakest.  He urged the committee to support HB 184.                                                                             
2:18:02 PM                                                                                                                    
FRED  PIKE,  Interim  Manager,  Bristol  Bay  Borough,  said  that                                                              
notwithstanding  the fact  that  he is  a lifetime  member of  the                                                              
NRA,  he is  opposed  to HB  184.   The  Bristol  Bay Borough,  he                                                              
explained, has successfully,  for the past 20 years,  kept an area                                                              
near  Naknek closed  to  the use  of  high-powered  rifles in  the                                                              
hunting  of  big  game,  on  the grounds  that  the  use  of  such                                                              
firearms  near  that village  presents  a  safety hazard  to  both                                                              
villagers and other hunters in the field.                                                                                       
JERRY CASTLEBERRY,  Chief, Bristol Bay Borough  Police Department,                                                              
Bristol Bay  Borough, said he opposes  HB 184 for  safety reasons.                                                              
(indisc. - teleconference static).                                                                                              
CHAIR  McGUIRE   asked  Mr.  Castleberry  whether   his  testimony                                                              
mirrors that of Mr. Pike's.                                                                                                     
MR. CASTLEBERRY said it does.                                                                                                   
REPRESENTATIVE  GRUENBERG  asked for  a copy  of  the Bristol  Bay                                                              
Borough ordinance that HB 184 would invalidate.                                                                                 
MR. CASTLEBERRY  agreed to  provide the committee  with a  copy of                                                              
that ordinance.                                                                                                                 
2:21:24 PM                                                                                                                    
JENNIFER  YUHAS,   Executive  Director,  Alaska   Outdoor  Council                                                              
(AOC), testified in support of HB 184.  She said:                                                                               
     On  behalf  of the  board  of  directors of  the  Alaska                                                                   
     Outdoor  Council -  representing  over  54 member  clubs                                                                   
     and  nearly 4,000  associate members,  for a  collective                                                                   
     membership  of  nearly  12,000 individuals  -  which  is                                                                   
     also the  recognized state association for  the National                                                                   
     Rifle    Association,   I    would    like   to    thank                                                                   
     Representative Chenault  for his sponsorship  of HB 184,                                                                   
     and   offer    our   enthusiastic   support    of   this                                                                   
     First  of  all,  we support  the  testimony  offered  by                                                                   
     Brian  Judy of  the  NRA.   House  Bill  184 more  fully                                                                   
     recognizes  the  constitutionally  guaranteed  right  of                                                                   
     private  individuals to  lawfully  exercise their  right                                                                   
     to keep  and bear  arms, and  reduces current  confusion                                                                   
     faced  by law-abiding  citizens  as they  attempt to  do                                                                   
     so.     The   proposed  legislation   before  you   only                                                                   
     addresses   municipal   ordinances  with   [regard]   to                                                                   
     current Alaska firearm statutes.                                                                                           
     While many  decisions should  be left to local  control,                                                                   
     it  is  unacceptable  to allow  a  governing  entity  to                                                                   
     unnecessarily  restrict the constitutionally  guaranteed                                                                   
     right  of our  law-abiding  citizens.   In passing  this                                                                   
     legislation  today,  the committee  will  be  validating                                                                   
     the constitutionally  guaranteed right to keep  and bear                                                                   
     arms  of   all  law-abiding  Alaskans,  and   [will  be]                                                                   
     supporting  the fact  that any right  guaranteed by  our                                                                   
     founding document should not be infringed.                                                                                 
     Three   years   ago   this   body   passed   legislation                                                                   
     eliminating  the  requirement for  Alaska's  law-abiding                                                                   
     citizens to  obtain a special  permit to exercise  their                                                                   
     right  to  carry  concealed  firearms as  well  as  open                                                                   
     ones.    Currently, six  municipalities  throughout  our                                                                   
     state have  not recognized  this change [via]  ... their                                                                   
     own  ordinances.   These  municipal ordinances  are  not                                                                   
     well  publicized,   and  this  current   discrepancy  is                                                                   
     confusing    to   well-intended,   law-abiding    Alaska                                                                   
     citizens,   and  creates  an   unnecessary  dictum   for                                                                   
     enforcement authorities.                                                                                                   
     By  passing   this  legislation   today,  you   will  be                                                                   
     recognizing   the   constitutionality  of   the   Second                                                                   
     Amendment  [of  the  U.S.  Constitution]  and  rewarding                                                                   
     Alaska's law  abiding citizens by eliminating  confusion                                                                   
     and  removing an  unnecessary  burden  from the  already                                                                   
     lengthy duties  of our valuable enforcement  staff.  The                                                                   
     Alaska  Outdoor Council strongly  advocates the  passage                                                                   
     of this legislation, and thanks you for your support.                                                                      
MS. YUHAS concluded:                                                                                                            
     I'd  also  like   to  add,  ...  with  regard   to  [Mr.                                                                   
     Monegan's]  comments, that  state law already  prohibits                                                                   
     the  discharge of  a  firearm or  other  weapon from  or                                                                   
     across  a  highway.    And,   as  I've  personally  been                                                                   
     involved in  the debate surrounding firearm  legislation                                                                   
     over the last  few years, we've consistently  heard from                                                                   
     our  enforcement  personnel  on  the  front  lines  that                                                                   
     while we may  hear from certain chiefs in  opposition to                                                                   
     the  ability  of  the  private  individual  to  exercise                                                                   
     [his/her]  Second Amendment  rights,  ...  those on  the                                                                   
     front  line   do  not  consider   the  removal   of  the                                                                   
     imposition of  a permit requirement to be  burdensome on                                                                   
     their ability to do their job.                                                                                             
2:24:26 PM                                                                                                                    
CARY  R. GRAVES,  City  Attorney,  City  of Kenai,  expressed  the                                                              
Kenai  City Council's  concern with  the  portion of  HB 184  that                                                              
would  prohibit  a  municipality  from enacting  or  enforcing  an                                                              
ordinance regulating  the use of  a firearm if it  is inconsistent                                                              
with state  law.   The City of  Kenai feels  that that  portion of                                                              
the bill  would, in  effect, repeal  Kenai's local ordinance  that                                                              
outlines what parts  of the city a person can  or cannot discharge                                                              
a firearm  in.  Currently the  city code allows for  the discharge                                                              
of guns in  the rural parts of  the city, but prohibits  it in the                                                              
residential parts  of the city.   "It's  a public safety  issue to                                                              
us,"  he  remarked,  adding  that  there  has  been  an  ordinance                                                              
regulating  the discharge  of firearms  on the  books since  1963,                                                              
and that it has been amended over the years.                                                                                    
MR.  GRAVES  said  that  two years  ago,  the  city  adjusted  the                                                              
shooting boundaries  to reflect  new residential areas  within the                                                              
city,  and  adopted  a very  clear,  definitive,  color-coded  map                                                              
outlining  those boundaries.   Those  maps are  available at  City                                                              
Hall  and in  the city  code.   He  relayed that  when he's  shown                                                              
those  maps to  citizen's  asking about  the  shooting areas,  the                                                              
citizens  have told  him  that they  thought  the boundary  limits                                                              
were  very clear  and very  well defined.   "I  want to  emphasize                                                              
that  the city  is  not  anti gun  or  anti  hunting -  quite  the                                                              
contrary; however,  the city  council feels  that the  city should                                                              
have  the ability  to regulate  the discharge  of firearms  within                                                              
its boundaries," he added.                                                                                                      
MR. GRAVES said  that the city does not currently,  nor intends in                                                              
the future to,  regulate the sale, transfer, or  transportation of                                                              
firearms; nor does  the city oppose the portions of  the bill that                                                              
speak to  the sale, transfer, or  transportation of firearms.   In                                                              
conclusion,  he asked  that the  word  "use" be  removed from  the                                                              
bill so  that a municipality can  maintain its ability  to control                                                              
the discharge of firearms within its boundaries.                                                                                
2:26:28 PM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG  asked Mr.  Graves to send  the committee                                                              
a copy of any ordinances that would be invalidated by HB 184.                                                                   
MR. GRAVES agreed to do so.                                                                                                     
2:28:05 PM                                                                                                                    
SCOTT HAMANN  said he strongly supports  HB 184, and  relayed that                                                              
he generally  carries a  firearm when  traveling and doesn't  want                                                              
to  have to  worry  about violating  local  ordinances and,  thus,                                                              
have  his firearm  confiscated  or  be hauled  off  to  jail.   He                                                              
characterized   the  concept   of   making  [firearm   regulation]                                                              
consistent throughout the state as a good idea.                                                                                 
REPRESENTATIVE  GARA asked Mr.  Hamann whether  he's ever  taken a                                                              
firearm into a municipality  and then found out that  doing so was                                                              
MR. HAMANN said  he had not, but is worried about  possible future                                                              
municipal laws.                                                                                                                 
2:30:36 PM                                                                                                                    
KATHLEEN WASSERMAN,  Alaska Municipal League (AML),  said that the                                                              
AML believes that  most local decisions should be  left with local                                                              
municipalities.   She  posited that  whether one  packs a  firearm                                                              
into a municipality  is not as much  of an issue as is  the use to                                                              
which  one puts  that  firearm, and  noted  that many  communities                                                              
across the state  have ordinances currently on the  books that are                                                              
intended to  keep people from  discharging guns within  their city                                                              
limits.   She  offered her  belief that  most municipalities  have                                                              
the right  and duty  to protect the  people of their  communities,                                                              
and  that  ensuring  that  municipalities   retain  the  right  to                                                              
establish ordinances for that purpose is the right thing to do.                                                                 
MS. WASSERMAN  indicated that to  [establish a state  law] because                                                              
of the fear  that a municipality  might adopt an ordinance  in the                                                              
future is  a dangerous  route to take;  rather, people  should act                                                              
at  the local  level  if  they feel  that  a local  government  is                                                              
attempting  to  establish  an  ordinance  with  which  they  don't                                                              
agree.  She said  that the AML thinks that local  communities need                                                              
to  have  a  local  say  with  regard  to  the  use  of  firearms.                                                              
Additionally, with  regard to the  fiscal note, she  surmised that                                                              
if  municipalities no  longer had  the right  to prosecute  anyone                                                              
for discharging  a firearm, then  the state would bear  the burden                                                              
of prosecuting people for that behavior.                                                                                        
2:32:58 PM                                                                                                                    
FREDERICK  H.  BONESS,  Municipal  Attorney,  Department  of  Law,                                                              
Municipality  of  Anchorage  (MOA),   relayed  that  the  MOA  has                                                              
concerns with  HB 184, and that  he's provided the  committee with                                                              
copies  of  the  municipal  ordinances  that he  thinks  would  be                                                              
impaired by the bill.  He went on to say:                                                                                       
     I  think  the law  is  quite  clear that  any  municipal                                                                   
     ordinance  which  is  in  conflict  with  state  law  is                                                                   
     invalid  and  would  not  be  affirmed  by  the  courts.                                                                   
     That's  already  the  law -  no  particular  legislative                                                                   
     action is required  to implement that - that  is the law                                                                   
     as  a  matter of  ...  supreme  court decisions.    This                                                                   
     [bill]  uses  the  language  "inconsistent",  which,  in                                                                   
     light  of the existing  law with  respect to  conflicts,                                                                   
     will undoubtedly  have to be read by the  courts to mean                                                                   
     something  broader.  And  that has serious  implications                                                                   
     because  the   amount  of  state  law   which  addresses                                                                   
     municipal-specific  problems or  concerns from a  safety                                                                   
     point of view is really nonexistent.                                                                                       
     So,  for example,  there's  nothing  in state  law  that                                                                   
     addresses the  question of whether  you can bring  a gun                                                                   
     into a  municipal building,  whereas there is,  in state                                                                   
     law,  a  specific  prohibition against  bringing  a  gun                                                                   
     into a  state courthouse.  ... Were we  to try  [to] ...                                                                   
     implement policies  or ordinances which  prohibit people                                                                   
     from bringing  guns into municipal buildings,  the court                                                                   
     is very  likely to conclude  that because the  state has                                                                   
     not prohibited  bringing guns  into municipal  buildings                                                                   
     ...  and  has   addressed  it  with  respect   to  state                                                                   
     courthouses,   our  ordinance  would  be   inconsistent.                                                                   
     That is  really an  untenable result  from the point  of                                                                   
     view of public  safety and the safety of  our employees,                                                                   
     and  for that  reason we  would very  much be  concerned                                                                   
     and  not   in  favor  of   language  that  simply   says                                                                   
     One solution  from the point  of view of a  municipality                                                                   
     like  Anchorage,   which  has  many  urban-related   gun                                                                   
     issues that  aren't true for  other parts of  the state,                                                                   
     [would be]  ... to limit  the application of  [the bill]                                                                   
     ...  to   not  make   this  law   apply  to  home   rule                                                                   
     municipalities.   That would deal with the  larger urban                                                                   
     areas  and   allow  them  to  deal   with  urban-related                                                                   
     matters.    As  [Mr.  Monegan]   said,  this  would  ...                                                                   
     inhibit   our   ability,   significantly,   to   prevent                                                                   
     discharge.   One of  the witnesses  testified that  it's                                                                   
     already  against state law  to shoot  from a highway  or                                                                   
     across the  highway, but a  highway under state  law has                                                                   
     a specific definition,  and many of the  non-major roads                                                                   
     in the  municipality would  not qualify as highways  and                                                                   
     [so] would  not be governed  by state law.   And, again,                                                                   
     because  state  law  doesn't   address  the  issue,  the                                                                   
     language   of  "inconsistency"   would  result  in   our                                                                   
     inability to address the issue.                                                                                            
CHAIR  McGUIRE,  characterizing  Mr.  Boness's  points  as  valid,                                                              
encouraged  Mr.  Boness  to  also  consider  possible  changes  to                                                              
current state firearm  laws that would further  the municipality's                                                              
goals  with regard  to public safety,  and predicted  that  HB 184                                                              
will  have the  support it  needs to  pass the  legislature.   She                                                              
said  she  is not  sure  how  a  judge would  interpret  the  word                                                              
2:38:47 PM                                                                                                                    
MR.  BONESS reiterated,  however,  that changing  the language  to                                                              
say,  "in conflict  with state  law",  would address  many of  the                                                              
concerns raised.   Because  of the  way courts interpret  statute,                                                              
he predicted,  use of  the term  "inconsistent with" could  result                                                              
in  the  court  saying that  the  legislature  already  knew  that                                                              
things that  were in  conflict couldn't be  part of  the municipal                                                              
code  and so  the word  "inconsistent" must  mean something  other                                                              
than "in conflict  with."  He mentioned that by  taking away local                                                              
control, the  legislature is basically  suggesting that  it should                                                              
pass what  amounts to ordinances,  as a  matter of state  law, for                                                              
each local jurisdiction.                                                                                                        
CHAIR  McGUIRE surmised  that  the sponsor's  belief  is that  the                                                              
right to bear arms  is a constitutional right and  therefore it is                                                              
the  state's responsibility  to  generate policy  with respect  to                                                              
any restrictions that would govern that right.                                                                                  
2:41:00 PM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE  GRUENBERG asked  whether  the term  "inconsistent"                                                              
would  be  susceptible   to  sufficient  definition   to  avoid  a                                                              
constitutional challenge of void for vagueness.                                                                                 
MR.  BONESS  offered   his  belief  that  in  order   to  maintain                                                              
ordinances  necessary for  regulatory  purposes,  the court  might                                                              
find that "inconsistent" is an acceptable term.                                                                                 
REPRESENTATIVE  GRUENBERG offered  his recollection that  Congress                                                              
attempted to legislate  "at this level" when it  prohibited people                                                              
from bringing  guns on or near school  yards, but it was  held, in                                                              
Lopez v.  United States, that that  violated state rights  - local                                                            
legislative  authority.   He asked  whether the  court might  also                                                              
find that [the  bill] violates the constitutional right  of a home                                                              
rule municipality to enact its own legislation.                                                                                 
MR. BONESS acknowledged  that that could be the  case, but pointed                                                              
out that  the legislature has  the authority to  impose particular                                                              
state laws  on home  rule municipalities.   He offered  his belief                                                              
that home rule  municipalities don't have the  same constitutional                                                              
rights that states do vis-a-vis the federal government.                                                                         
REPRESENTATIVE   GRUENBERG,   predicting   that  the   bill   will                                                              
initially be  litigated in the  context of somebody  being charged                                                              
with violating a  local ordinance, asked whether the  focus of the                                                              
trial will  become whether the defendant  should be released  on a                                                              
technicality,  that of  whether  the ordinance  is  "inconsistent"                                                              
with  state  law,  rather  than   whether  the  guilty  should  be                                                              
MR. BONESS opined that that would be the case.                                                                                  
2:43:23 PM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE  GARA  asked  whether  state law  lists  places  to                                                              
which firearms  can be  brought but to  which local  law prohibits                                                              
the bringing of firearms.                                                                                                       
MR.  MONEGAN mentioned  licensed  premises, and  relayed that  his                                                              
officers are  trained to  make the  assumption that every  person,                                                              
every  home, and  every car  has a gun,  and that  those guns  are                                                              
always loaded.                                                                                                                  
REPRESENTATIVE   GARA  asked   whether  the   MOA  currently   has                                                              
something  different  than  state  law  with  regard  to  bringing                                                              
firearms into  licensed premises, or  whether the thought  is that                                                              
the  MOA might  in  the future  enact  something  to address  such                                                              
MR.  MONEGAN indicated  that a  problem arises  if someone  starts                                                              
drinking  in  a  licensed  premises   while  in  possession  of  a                                                              
firearm;  such  [compromises]  the   safety  of  everyone  in  the                                                              
establishment,   and  likened  that   behavior  to   drinking  and                                                              
2:47:48 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR McGUIRE,  remarking on  a shortness  of time, closed  public                                                              
testimony on HB 184.                                                                                                            
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG  made a motion  to adopt Amendment  1, to                                                              
delete  "inconsistent"  from  page  1,  line  5,  and  insert  "in                                                              
REPRESENTATIVE ANDERSON objected for the purpose of discussion.                                                                 
MR. DeLAND indicated  that Amendment 1 would be  acceptable to the                                                              
REPRESENTATIVE  GRUENBERG mentioned that  adoption of  Amendment 1                                                              
would eliminate the need for other amendments.                                                                                  
REPRESENTATIVE COGHILL  spoke in favor of Amendment  1.  He added,                                                              
"I  want our  constitution  to mean  something  when  you're in  a                                                              
community, but  I also want  communities to  be able to  take care                                                              
of whatever  unique things  that they  really have been  empowered                                                              
to  do under  our [Alaska  State]  Constitution, so  I think  that                                                              
would be consistent ..."                                                                                                        
REPRESENTATIVE  ANDERSON interjected to  remove his  objection and                                                              
indicate that he supports Amendment 1.                                                                                          
CHAIR  McGUIRE characterized  the  adoption of  Amendment  1 as  a                                                              
compromise position.                                                                                                            
2:50:27 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR McGUIRE  asked whether there  were any further  objection to                                                              
Amendment 1.  There being none, Amendment 1 was adopted.                                                                        
REPRESENTATIVE  GRUENBERG,  characterizing  the title  as  awfully                                                              
broad, asked that it be narrowed.                                                                                               
MR.  DeLAND offered  his  understanding that  the  title has  been                                                              
written as it is for a reason.                                                                                                  
CHAIR McGUIRE  relayed that  the sponsor has  asked her  to oppose                                                              
any amendments that would change the title.                                                                                     
The committee took an at-ease from 2:50 p.m. to 2:51 p.m.                                                                       
2:51:41 PM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG  indicated that he would  not be offering                                                              
an amendment to change the title.                                                                                               
REPRESENTATIVE ANDERSON  moved to report  HB 184, as  amended, out                                                              
of   committee    with   individual   recommendations    and   the                                                              
accompanying zero  fiscal notes.   There being no  objection, CSHB
184(JUD)   was  reported   from  the   House  Judiciary   Standing                                                              

Document Name Date/Time Subjects