Legislature(2017 - 2018)HOUSE FINANCE 519
05/09/2017 01:30 PM FINANCE
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HOUSE BILL NO. 74 "An Act relating to the implementation of the federal REAL ID Act of 2005; and relating to issuance of identification cards and driver's licenses; and providing for an effective date." 1:33:27 PM Co-Chair Foster relayed that the bill had been heard in committee twice on April 20, 2018 and April 25, 2018. In the meeting the committee would be taking up amendments. He invited Ms. Ridle to the table and reviewed the list of testifiers available online. Vice-Chair Gara MOVED to ADOPT Amendment 1 (copy on file): Page 4, following line 20: Insert new subsections to read: "(d) The department (1) may not share more than three digits of a person's social security number to determine whether a person has been issued a driver's license in another state; (2) may share the number of digits of a person's social security number required by federal law. (e) Notwithstanding (d)(l) of this section, the department may share up to five digits but as few digits as feasible of a person's social security number to determine whether a person has been issued a driver's license in another state if the department (1) has taken all steps necessary to secure an agreement to use only three digits of a person's social security number; and (2) has been unable to secure an agreement to use only three digits of a person's social security number." Reletter the following subsection accordingly. Page 4, line 22: Delete "(b) and (c)" Insert "(b) - (d)" Page 9, line 3: Delete "AS 28.05.068(d)" Insert "AS 28.05.068(e)" Representative Wilson OBJECTED for discussion. Vice-Chair Gara recently learned that in order for the Department of Motor Vehicles (DMV) to determine that someone did not have a driver's license from another state, it had been required by a conglomeration of agencies and non-profits to share 5 social security number digits. He continued that with so many Alaskans having a "574" Social Security number that shares 8 number digits the department had not figured out a way around having to share 5 numbers. The amendment stated that the department should share no more than 3 digits. If 3 digits were not enough, then no more than 4 should be shared. He relayed that federal law at times required them to share 5 digits - the state could not make the agencies violate federal law. The amendment advocated that the state should attempt to negotiate the number of Social Security digits down to 3 or 4. The purpose of the amendment was to protect an individual's privacy. Co-Chair Foster indicated Representative Pruitt and Representative Tilton had joined the committee at the table. He also noted that Representative Stutes was presently an alternate for Representative Guttenberg. Representative Wilson liked the intent of the amendment. She referred to lines 12 through 15 of the amendment where it talked about having taken all steps necessary to secure an agreement. She asked for clarification. Vice-Chair Gara responded that it was a directive to the department. The intent was for the department to work with the national non-profit currently requiring 5 digits to find an alternative to that requirement. Representative Wilson reiterated that she liked the amendment. She was concerned with being brushed off by the non-profit. She was hoping the department could shed some light on the non-profit's position. She asked Ms. Ridle about her dealings with the non-profit around this issue. 1:37:52 PM LESLIE RIDLE, DEPUTY COMMISSIONER, DEPARTMENT OF ADMINISTRATION, reported that the non-profit dealt with all of the DMVs across the United States. The State of Alaska was a member and had a representative from Alaska's DMV attending meetings who also served on the governance board. The department had already sent an official letter and would have representation and a physical presence at the meetings. She assumed that Alaska was not the only state with concerns about the 5-digit requirement. She thought the state would have allies in the matter. Representative Wilson WITHDREW her OBJECTION. There being NO OBJECTION, Amendment 1 was ADOPTED. Co-Chair Seaton MOVED to ADOPT Amendment 2 (copy on file): Page 2, lines 13 - 15: Delete "the minimum amount of time required by P.L. I 09-13, Division B (REAL ID Act of 2005), or other" Insert "15 years after the date of application unless otherwise required by another" Page 2, line 29: Delete "one year" Insert "15 years" Page 5, lines 1 - 3: Delete "the minimum amount of time required by P.L. 109-13, Division B (REAL ID Act of 2005), or other" Insert "15 years after the date of application unless otherwise required by another" Page 5, line 17: Delete "one year" Insert "15 years" Representative Wilson OBJECTED for discussion. Co-Chair Seaton explained that the purpose of the amendment was to keep Alaska's current practice of retaining documents for 15 years. He had heard from the Department of Administration and the Department of Public Safety in testimonies about the value of these documents being available. He had also heard that the documents were retained in an encrypted manner. He continued to explain that for Real ID compliant licenses it would change from the minimum required by REAL ID retention to the state's current 15 years. For non-compliant licenses the amendment would keep the same position as the current bill. The non- compliant licenses would not be scanned or retained except for the photos which would be retained for 15 years for the Department of Public Safety and for internal state use. It would maintain the current status for driver's license and use of documents within the State of Alaska instead of modifying it based on federal law. Co-Chair Foster clarified that Amendment 2 was being addressed. Representative Wilson addressed her objection. She was not in favor of the amendment. She did not think the public was aware of their information being retained for 15 years. She was concerned with privacy issues. She had a problem with DPS using a picture of a person, who had not committed a crime, in a line-up. She did not believe it had been required. People had their picture taken for DMV purposes. Vice-Chair Gara stated that the testimony had been very clear from a previous day that if the state did not retain photos it would make it more difficult for the Alaska State Troopers and other law enforcement agencies to solve murder cases and cold cases. It would also make it more difficult to find missing persons. He opined that everything was a policy call and very few policy calls were 100 percent black and white. He sided with trying to solve murder cases and finding missing persons. It had been reported by law enforcement officials that keeping photos helped them to do both. 1:42:17 PM Representative Ortiz asked if there were other practical benefits for keeping these records on file for up to 15 years other than what had already been mentioned by Representative Gara. Ms. Ridle responded that it had mainly to do with public safety. She added that the 15-year period was in state statute. She reported that it also helped the DMV to issue a duplicate license. Representative Wilson did not understand why an old picture would be kept for 15 years since she was going back every 8 years to renew her license. Ms. Ridle responded that, foremost, it was a matter of public safety. She mentioned the benefit of having previous addresses to help verify a person's identity. Representative Wilson asked at what point within the 15- year period DPS had access to photos. Ms. Ridle responded, "as needed." She elaborated that DPS would contact DMV with what they needed. Representative Wilson wondered about the benefits of having an older license on file once a person renewed their license. Ms. Ridle suggested having Captain Lowden respond to Representative Wilson's question. The Department of Public Safety might want to verify what information a person provided about where they lived. 1:45:01 PM CAPTAIN DANIEL LOWDEN, ALASKA STATE TROOPERS, DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SAFETY (via teleconference), answered that when the troopers were working cases that had any age to them, such as cold cases, they liked to get the picture of the person suspected as close to the time period as possible. Representative Wilson asked if the troopers received all of the information rather than just the photo from a person's identification card. Captain Lowden was unsure of how much of the information was provided to the troopers. The Alaska State Troopers dealt mostly with photographs when trying to identify people and to find wanted persons. He thought the records bureau used more of the documents in trying to reconcile a person's records. Sometimes people use different names and it was necessary to merge records or split them out. The troopers might use them for fraud investigations or for identify theft investigations as well. Representative Wilson asked if the groups he was referring to were part of DPS or another entity. Captain Lowden answered that it was through DPS in a different division where the employees compiled all records for every ticket and conviction. Co-Chair Seaton asked if a person had to appear in person at the DMV for a driver's license renewal. Ms. Ridle relayed that the DMV could issue a one-time renewal online or in person. If a person lost a license, the DMV could provide a duplicate with their paperwork on file. Co-Chair Seaton reminded the committee that he asked the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) about any breaches of information. He reported that the ACLU was not aware of any breach or problem with the 15-year retention of documents for Alaska. Representative Stutes asked if the records were currently kept for 15 years. Co-Chair Seaton responded in the affirmative. Representative Wilson MAINTAINED her OBJECTION. A roll call vote was taken on the motion. IN FAVOR: Kawasaki, Ortiz, Gara, Grenn, Stutes, Seaton, Foster OPPOSED: Pruitt, Thompson, Tilton, Wilson The MOTION to ADOPT Amendment 2 PASSED (7/4). Vice-Chair Gara MOVED to ADOPT Amendment 3 (copy on file): Page 1, line 10: Delete "$20" Insert "$10" Page 8, line 27: Delete "$20" Insert "$10" Representative Wilson OBJECTED for discussion. 1:50:25 PM AT EASE 1:51:07 PM RECONVENED Co-Chair Foster indicated that Representative Chris Birch had joined the audience. Vice-Chair Gara reported that the testimony he heard was that the current version of the bill added a $20 fee to obtain a Real ID compliant driver's license. He thought the amount was excessive and would produce roughly $1 million more revenue than needed in FY 19 and FY 20 and $500,000 more revenue than needed in FY 21 and FY 22. The department had proposed a $10 fee because it would make the Real ID license cost-neutral. However, a $20 fee would generate additional revenue. He understood the need for revenue but did not feel it was an appropriate place to get it. The fee would be a flat charge to people no matter their income. Ms. Ridle responded that in the original version of the bill the fee was $5, the cost of making the card. In the previous committee the amount was changed to $20. If the fee was reduced to $10, assuming that about half of people apply for a Real ID card (a guess based on other states), the state should be able to payoff about $1.06 million in 2 years. It would take a little more to pay off the cost of $1.4 million to implement it. Vice-Chair Gara asked Ms. Ridle whether $10 was an accurate amount to remain cost-neutral. Ms. Ridle responded in the affirmative. At a certain point $1.5 would be paid off and the remainder would go back into the general fund. She estimated that it would take 2.3 to 3 years to pay of the implementation costs. Vice-Chair Gara asked about the $5 fee that the administration had originally introduced in the bill. Ms. Ridle responded that the $5 fee would pay for the cost of the card. It did not include the costs of implementation. If the fee was $10, $5 would go towards paying the $1.5 implementation cost. Representative Kawasaki asked if there was a charge to become a member of American Association of Motor Vehicle Administrators (AAMVA). Ms. Ridle responded affirmatively. Representative Kawasaki wondered if the charge was a variable charge rather than a fixed charge. He understood the charge increased every year. Ms. Ridle did not know what the state paid in charges. She thought Marla Thompson from DMV could answer the question. 1:55:22 PM MARLA THOMPSON, DIRECTOR, DEPARTMENT OF MOTOR VEHICLES, DEPARTMENT OF ADMINISTRATION (via teleconference), asked Representative Kawasaki to repeat the question. Representative Kawasaki repeated his question. Ms. Thompson would have to double check. The fees increased and decreased, but the state received notice of any changes 12 months in advance. She would look up the information. Representative Kawasaki wanted the answer to his question. He believed the fees increased annually. He thought it was important because Alaska would have Real ID compliant identifications, and because the state was going through a national privately owned non-profit organization. He suggested that the fees would go up every year. He wanted to make sure the fiscal note reflected a downward trend. He thought the cost for implementing Real ID in Alaska would actually go up because of being part of AAMVA. He asked for the answer in writing. Representative Pruitt asked if the amount was in addition to the already set fee that the public currently paid for cards. Ms. Ridle replied affirmatively. It would be an additional $20. Representative Pruitt asked when the last rate increase occurred. Ms. Ridle thought it was sometime in the 80s. Representative Pruitt mentioned that 4 or 5 years prior Alaska changed how it produced its ID's. He asked if that particular program cost more than previously. Ms. Ridle deferred to Ms. Thompson. Ms. Thompson replied that the cost was similar because at the time managers really struggled with the printers and the quality of the products that the division used. In the end, her understanding was that the cost was similar between what the state was spending on printer costs, paper, and supplies versus what the division did with bids. Representative Pruitt asked if there was an increase in cost from the time the fee was set at $20. He suggested there was an increase in costs over the time frame. He asked if his statement was appropriate. Ms. Ridle responded that the cost most likely went up over time, particularly in personnel. Representative Pruitt asked if he could expect the cost to remain for an extended period since $5 was currently covering the cost. He wondered if the state should expect the amount to go up. Ms. Ridle thought it would increase incrementally. Co-Chair Seaton asked about the length of the current driver's license and what it would be under Real ID. Ms. Ridle answered that it was currently a 5-year renewal and the Real ID legislation would bump it up to an 8-year renewal. Co-Chair Seaton mentioned the differences in cost and the time between renewals. At a fee of $20, the cost of the card would be $5 to make and an additional $5 per year for the additional 3 years for a Real ID with an 8-year renewal instead of a 5-year renewal. He asked if he was approximately correct. Ms. Ridle responded affirmatively. Vice-Chair Gara relayed that his understanding of the testimony was that if the state charged $10, it would offset the cost for the first 2 years and there would be some money left over in the out years. He thought there would be less money if the costs went up. He thought it was possible that the license fee would have to be raised. Ms. Ridle answered that the DMV turned money back to the state every year in an amount between $30 million and $45 million. It would be the will of the legislature, at the time, if it wanted to increase the fee. Basically, it would be a fee to the public. Representative Wilson MAINTAINED her OBJECTION. A roll call vote was taken on the motion. IN FAVOR: Ortiz, Gara, Stutes, Kawasaki, Foster OPPOSED: Pruitt, Thompson, Tilton, Wilson, Grenn, Seaton The MOTION to ADOPT Amendment 3 FAILED (5/6). 2:02:14 PM Representative Wilson MOVED to ADOPT Amendment 4 (copy on file): Page 2, line 7: Delete "department" Insert "commissioner of administration" Page 2, line 12: Delete "or federal" Page 2, line 15: Delete "or federal" Page 4, lines 2 - 10: Delete all material and insert: "Sec. 28.05.068. Prohibition on data sharing. (a) The department may not convey, distribute, or communicate data to be used in a database, index, pointer system, or any other system managed by an entity other than the department, including the American Association of Motor Vehicle Administrators." Page 4, line 31: Delete "or federal" Page 5, line 3: Delete "or federal" Page 7, line 31: Delete "state" Insert "department" Vice-Chair Gara OBJECTED for discussion. Representative Wilson read the amendment (see above). She understood the attempt was to follow the Real ID Act. However, she thought the bill would require the state to get permission from the federal government. She believed the was the bill an overreach as currently written. She also expressed concerns about security within AAMVA. She was unfamiliar with what security measures the entity had in place and the potential for an information breach. She argued that there was a larger framework around the use of passport information. She did not think the framework was the same for AAMVA. She supported matching the list of requirements for the Real ID Act. Vice-Chair Gara was interested in the department's view of whether the amendment would violate federal law. Ms. Ridle pointed to Page 4, line 2-10. The changes would make the state non-compliant because AAMVA was the only vehicle in which to check state-to-state to make sure there were no duplicate licenses. If Alaska was unable to use AAMVA, it would not be compliant, and Alaska IDs would not be accepted by Real ID. Vice-Chair Gara asked Ms. Ridle to remind committee members of the importance of making sure a person did not have 2 licenses. He also asked her to review other reasons for checking a person's license. Ms. Ridle responded that every state had a state law that indicated a person could not have 2 licenses. Also, the state checked to make sure that someone was not under restrictions for a DUI or other problem driver issues in other states. Mainly, it was due to every state having a law that only allowed for one license. She added that Federal Homeland Security had certified the state-to-state AAMVA system as meeting strict federal requirements of security. Homeland Security did not convey that Alaska had to use AAMVA, but it met their standards of security. She reemphasized that it was the only system the state could use to be compliant. Co-Chair Seaton thought that lines 11-16 would make the state non-compliant. He wondered if the change on lines 5-6 would make the state non-compliant with other federal regulations such as commercial driver's licenses. He asked if he was accurate. Ms. Ridle reported that lines 11-16 of the amendment that would make the state non-compliant. Co-Chair Seaton asked about the other lines being in conflict with the retention of document requirements for commercial driver's licenses. He believed it was 55 years. Ms. Ridle called for a lifeline. 2:08:27 PM CORI MILLS, SPECIAL ASSISTANT, OFFICE OF THE ATTORNEY GENERAL, DEPARTMENT OF LAW, referred to lines 5 through 9. The issue the department was concerned with was that there were several different laws dealing with commercial driver's licenses (CDL), highways, and how to deal with identification. Eliminating the lines might not present too many issues. However, she was concerned it would become tangled as a person looked further into the laws. She could not report off the top of her head exactly what such a change might implicate. It could potentially create another tangle of issues. Co-Chair Seaton thought that if the state got into the problem of issuing non-compliant CDL's it would lead to a greater problem of not being able to use Alaskan CDL's in other states. He would be opposing the amendment. Representative Wilson reminded members that the legislature was only dealing with the Real ID Act. She did not want other issues tied to the Real ID Act. She expressed concerns about identifying a specific entity in statue. Co-Chair Foster recognized Representative Gary Knopp in the audience. Vice-Chair Gara suggested that the bill had 2 competing interests. The first was the concern of the business community and labor community that their members would not be able to travel by plane, into Canada, and would have difficulty getting work if the legislature did not pass this bill. The flip side was that there were privacy issues people were concerned about. The Department of Law was concerned about travel restrictions on workers, businesses, unions, military bases, and across state lines if the committee adopted the amendment. Ms. Ridle was concerned about the items Vice-Chair Gara had brought up. If the state was not allowed to use the AAMVA system, it would result in some of the things he mentioned. Vice-Chair Gara understood the privacy issues. He was not comfortable with people not being able to get to work. He would be opposing the amendment. Representative Wilson thought people could get to work. They had the option of getting a passport. She thought the legislature needed to know how to protect people's privacy and to make sure the options were clearly defined. She wanted people to get to work but was concerned with the amount of information that would be provided to an entity that could change. Vice-Chair Gara MAINTAINED his OBJECTION. A roll call vote was taken on the motion. IN FAVOR: Pruitt, Tilton, Wilson OPPOSED: Grenn, Stutes, Kawasaki, Ortiz, Thompson, Gara, Seaton The MOTION to ADOPT Amendment 4 FAILED (3/8). Co-Chair Seaton MOVED to ADOPT Amendment 5 (copy on file): Page 3, lines 1 - 2: Delete all material and insert: "(2) shall scan and retain the minimum documents necessary for issuance of the identification card; the department shall destroy any documents retained one year after the identification card expires." Page 5, lines 19 - 20: Delete all material and insert: "(2) shall scan and retain the minimum documents necessary for issuance of the driver's license; the department shall destroy any documents retained One year after the driver's license expires." Representative Wilson MOVED to ADOPT for discussion. Co-Chair Seaton asked for a brief at ease. 2:15:29 PM AT EASE 2:16:07 PM RECONVENED Co-Chair Seaton explained that the amendment addressed non- compliant ID's and licenses. It would allow the department to scan and retain the minimum documents needed for a non- compliant license and would require the documents to be destroyed within one year after the expiration of the identification card or the non-compliant driver's license. It would make the non-compliant ID's essentially the same as the status of the current licenses. The intention of the bill was to offer an alternative for people - they could get a Real ID compliant license or continue to use the current Alaska Driver's License. However, with the changes that had been made, the non-compliant license would not be applicable or identical and would not serve the same purposes as the current driver's license. A person would no longer be able to get a duplicate license. Also, without having the security of retaining the applicable documents, the DMV testified that it would be easier to falsify a license, as there would not be an audit available to track. Representative Wilson MAINTAINED her OBJECTION. A roll call vote was taken on the motion. IN FAVOR: Gara, Grenn, Stutes, Ortiz, Seaton, Foster OPPOSED: Pruitt, Thompson, Tilton, Wilson Representative Kawasaki was absent from the vote. The MOTION to ADOPT Amendment 5 PASSED (6/4). 2:20:37 PM Vice-Chair Gara MOVED to ADOPT Amendment 6 (copy on file): Page 1, following line 4: Insert a new bill section to read: "* Section 1. The uncodified law of the State of Alaska is amended by adding a new section to read: LEGISLATIVE INTENT. It is the intent of the legislature that the state will continue to work with the Alaska delegation in Congress to amend provisions of P.L. 109-13, Division B (REAL ID Act of 2005) that compromise the rights of Alaskans to the privacy of their personal information, while protecting the nation's efforts to combat terrorism." Page 1, line 5: Delete "Section 1" Insert "Sec. 2" Renumber the following bill sections accordingly. Page 9, line 10: Delete "Sections 13 and 15" Insert "Sections 14 and 16" Page 9, line 11: Delete "sec. 16" Insert "sec. 17" Representative Pruitt OBJECTED for discussion. Vice-Chair Gara acknowledged that privacy concerns had been raised with Real ID. Amendment 6 conveyed that the state took privacy concerns seriously. He thought that Amendment 6 in conjunction with Amendment 1 tried to limit the use of social security numbers. The amendment advocated for Alaska's congressional delegation to continue working to limit and reverse the provisions of the Real ID Act that compromised the privacy of Alaskans in a way consistent with the ability to combat terrorism. There were concerns about the privacy provisions of the federal Real ID Act. He was comfortable that Alaska had to follow it. Otherwise, he thought it would compromise the ability of people being able to travel. He wanted Alaska's delegation to work to reverse any of the provisions of Real ID that were not necessary and compromised people's privacy. Representative Pruitt asked that he be added as a co- sponsor to the amendment. Representative Pruitt WITHDREW his OBJECTION. There being NO OBJECTION, Amendment 6 was ADOPTED. Co-Chair Foster asked Vice-Chair Gara to walk the committee through the fiscal notes. Vice-Chair Gara reviewed the fiscal notes: [New Fiscal Impact Note] Department: Department of Administration Appropriation: Motor Vehicles Allocation: Motor Vehicles OMB Component Number: 2348 Representative Pruitt requested an at ease. 2:23:44 PM AT EASE 2:23:58 PM RECONVENED Vice-Chair Gara continued to review the fiscal notes for HB 74: [FN2 - Zero Fiscal Impact] Department: Department of Public Safety Appropriation: Statewide Support Allocation: Commissioner's Office OMB Component Number: 523 [FN1 - Zero Fiscal Impact] Department: Department of Military and Veterans Affairs Appropriation: Military and Veterans' Affairs Allocation: Homeland Security and Emergency Management OMB Component Number: 2657 Vice-Chair Gara referred to the first fiscal note (OMB Component Number 2348) and explained that the note assumed a capital appropriation cost of $1.5 million. Co-Chair Seaton MOVED to report CSHB 74(FIN) out of Committee with individual recommendations and the accompanying fiscal notes. Representative Wilson OBJECTED. Representative Wilson spoke to her objection. She believed the bill was important. She thought the legislation allowed the state to continue to scan and retain private information for 15 years. She disagreed with the 15-year period and with sharing the information provided to the DMV. She was also concerned with giving the information to a private entity and with the federal government changing the rules no longer requiring a Real ID. She could have supported the bill prior to adopting the amendments but could not support it in its current from. She stressed the importance of protecting individuals' privacy. She disagreed with the argument that people could not go to work without an ID. She felt that people could alternatively obtain a passport. She understood that the bill would make it more convenient. The bill had essentially removed driver's licenses and replaced them with federal IDs. She would not be supporting the bill. 2:27:51 PM Vice-Chair Gara understood Representative Wilson's concerns. The concerns were really with the state's congressional delegation and the actions of congress. The state's choice was to make it more difficult for people to travel and work, to have to carry around multiple documents, pay extra for a passport card and a driver's license, or have to carry around a passport. He thought the question was whether the state was going to make it more difficult for people to work. The bill contained provisions to encourage congress to make changes to the law. He would be siding in favor of getting people to work. Representative Wilson MAINTAINED her OBJECTION. A roll call vote was taken on the motion. IN FAVOR: Thompson. Gara, Grenn, Stutes, Kawasaki, Ortiz, Pruitt, Foster, Seaton OPPOSED: Tilton, Wilson The MOTION to REPORT OUT CSHB 74 (FIN) PASSED (9/2). CSHB 74(FIN) was REPORTED out of committee with an "amend" recommendation and with a new fiscal impact note by the Department of Administration and with two previously published zero fiscal notes: FN1(MVA) and FN2(DPS).