Legislature(2017 - 2018)HOUSE FINANCE 519

05/09/2017 01:30 PM FINANCE

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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+= HB 159 OPIOIDS;PRESCRIPTIONS;DATABASE;LICENSES TELECONFERENCED
<Bill Hearing Canceled>
+= HB 150 PAY, ALLOWANCES, BENEFITS FOR MILITIA MEM TELECONFERENCED
Moved HB 150 Out of Committee
+= HB 124 BENEFIT CORPORATIONS TELECONFERENCED
Moved CSHB 124(FIN) Out of Committee
+ HB 142 UNEMPLOYMENT COMPENSATION BENEFITS TELECONFERENCED
Heard & Held
+ Bills Previously Heard/Scheduled TELECONFERENCED
+= HB 74 DRIVER'S LICENSE & ID CARDS & REAL ID ACT TELECONFERENCED
Moved CSHB 74(FIN) Out of Committee
HOUSE BILL NO. 74                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     "An Act  relating to the implementation  of the federal                                                                    
     REAL  ID  Act of  2005;  and  relating to  issuance  of                                                                    
     identification   cards  and   driver's  licenses;   and                                                                    
     providing for an effective date."                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
1:33:27 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Foster relayed  that the  bill had  been heard  in                                                                    
committee twice  on April  20, 2018 and  April 25,  2018. In                                                                    
the meeting the committee would  be taking up amendments. He                                                                    
invited  Ms. Ridle  to the  table and  reviewed the  list of                                                                    
testifiers available online.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Gara MOVED to ADOPT Amendment 1 (copy on file):                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     Page 4, following line 20:                                                                                                 
          Insert new subsections to read:                                                                                       
               "(d) The department                                                                                              
                    (1)  may  not   share  more  than  three                                                                    
                    digits  of  a person's  social  security                                                                    
                    number  to  determine whether  a  person                                                                    
                    has  been issued  a driver's  license in                                                                    
                    another state;                                                                                              
                    (2) may share the  number of digits of a                                                                    
                    person's    social    security    number                                                                    
                    required by federal law.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
               (e) Notwithstanding  (d)(l) of  this section,                                                                    
               the department  may share  up to  five digits                                                                    
               but as  few digits as feasible  of a person's                                                                    
               social security  number to  determine whether                                                                    
               a person  has been issued a  driver's license                                                                    
               in another state if the department                                                                               
                    (1)  has taken  all  steps necessary  to                                                                    
                    secure  an agreement  to use  only three                                                                    
                    digits  of  a person's  social  security                                                                    
                    number; and                                                                                                 
                    (2)  has   been  unable  to   secure  an                                                                    
                    agreement to use only  three digits of a                                                                    
                    person's social security number."                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     Reletter the following subsection accordingly.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     Page 4, line 22:                                                                                                           
          Delete "(b) and (c)"                                                                                                  
          Insert "(b) - (d)"                                                                                                    
     Page 9, line 3:                                                                                                            
          Delete "AS 28.05.068(d)"                                                                                              
          Insert "AS 28.05.068(e)"                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Representative Wilson OBJECTED for discussion.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair  Gara  recently learned  that  in  order for  the                                                                    
Department  of  Motor  Vehicles   (DMV)  to  determine  that                                                                    
someone did not have a  driver's license from another state,                                                                    
it had  been required  by a  conglomeration of  agencies and                                                                    
non-profits  to share  5 social  security number  digits. He                                                                    
continued that with  so many Alaskans having  a "574" Social                                                                    
Security number  that shares 8 number  digits the department                                                                    
had not figured out a way  around having to share 5 numbers.                                                                    
The  amendment stated  that the  department should  share no                                                                    
more than  3 digits. If  3 digits  were not enough,  then no                                                                    
more than  4 should be  shared. He relayed that  federal law                                                                    
at times required  them to share 5 digits -  the state could                                                                    
not  make the  agencies violate  federal law.  The amendment                                                                    
advocated  that the  state should  attempt to  negotiate the                                                                    
number  of  Social Security  digits  down  to  3 or  4.  The                                                                    
purpose  of the  amendment  was to  protect an  individual's                                                                    
privacy.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair   Foster   indicated  Representative   Pruitt   and                                                                    
Representative  Tilton  had  joined  the  committee  at  the                                                                    
table.  He   also  noted  that  Representative   Stutes  was                                                                    
presently an alternate for Representative Guttenberg.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Wilson liked  the intent  of the  amendment.                                                                    
She referred to  lines 12 through 15 of  the amendment where                                                                    
it talked about  having taken all steps  necessary to secure                                                                    
an agreement.  She asked for clarification.  Vice-Chair Gara                                                                    
responded that  it was  a directive  to the  department. The                                                                    
intent  was for  the department  to work  with the  national                                                                    
non-profit  currently   requiring  5   digits  to   find  an                                                                    
alternative to that requirement.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Representative   Wilson  reiterated   that  she   liked  the                                                                    
amendment. She was  concerned with being brushed  off by the                                                                    
non-profit. She  was hoping the  department could  shed some                                                                    
light  on the  non-profit's  position. She  asked Ms.  Ridle                                                                    
about her dealings with the non-profit around this issue.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
1:37:52 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
LESLIE   RIDLE,    DEPUTY   COMMISSIONER,    DEPARTMENT   OF                                                                    
ADMINISTRATION, reported that the  non-profit dealt with all                                                                    
of the  DMVs across the  United States. The State  of Alaska                                                                    
was  a member  and had  a representative  from Alaska's  DMV                                                                    
attending meetings who also served  on the governance board.                                                                    
The  department  had already  sent  an  official letter  and                                                                    
would  have representation  and a  physical presence  at the                                                                    
meetings. She  assumed that  Alaska was  not the  only state                                                                    
with  concerns about  the 5-digit  requirement. She  thought                                                                    
the state would have allies in the matter.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Representative Wilson WITHDREW her OBJECTION.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
There being NO OBJECTION, Amendment 1 was ADOPTED.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Seaton MOVED to ADOPT Amendment 2 (copy on file):                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     Page 2, lines 13 - 15:                                                                                                     
          Delete "the minimum amount of time required by                                                                        
          P.L. I 09-13, Division B (REAL ID Act of 2005),                                                                       
          or other"                                                                                                             
          Insert "15 years after the date of application                                                                        
          unless otherwise required by another"                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     Page 2, line 29:                                                                                                           
          Delete "one year"                                                                                                     
          Insert "15 years"                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     Page 5, lines 1 - 3:                                                                                                       
          Delete "the minimum amount of time required by                                                                        
          P.L. 109-13, Division B (REAL ID Act of 2005), or                                                                     
          other"                                                                                                                
          Insert "15 years after the date of application                                                                        
          unless otherwise required by another"                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     Page 5, line 17:                                                                                                           
          Delete "one year"                                                                                                     
          Insert "15 years"                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Representative Wilson OBJECTED for discussion.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Seaton explained that the  purpose of the amendment                                                                    
was  to   keep  Alaska's   current  practice   of  retaining                                                                    
documents for 15 years. He  had heard from the Department of                                                                    
Administration  and  the  Department  of  Public  Safety  in                                                                    
testimonies  about  the  value   of  these  documents  being                                                                    
available.  He  had  also  heard  that  the  documents  were                                                                    
retained  in an  encrypted manner.  He continued  to explain                                                                    
that for  Real ID  compliant licenses  it would  change from                                                                    
the minimum  required by  REAL ID  retention to  the state's                                                                    
current 15  years. For non-compliant licenses  the amendment                                                                    
would keep the  same position as the current  bill. The non-                                                                    
compliant licenses  would not be scanned  or retained except                                                                    
for the photos which would be  retained for 15 years for the                                                                    
Department of Public  Safety and for internal  state use. It                                                                    
would maintain  the current status for  driver's license and                                                                    
use  of documents  within  the State  of  Alaska instead  of                                                                    
modifying it based on federal law.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Foster  clarified  that   Amendment  2  was  being                                                                    
addressed.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Representative Wilson  addressed her objection. She  was not                                                                    
in favor of the amendment. She  did not think the public was                                                                    
aware of their information being  retained for 15 years. She                                                                    
was concerned  with privacy issues.  She had a  problem with                                                                    
DPS using  a picture of  a person,  who had not  committed a                                                                    
crime,  in  a line-up.  She  did  not  believe it  had  been                                                                    
required. People had their picture taken for DMV purposes.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair  Gara stated  that  the testimony  had been  very                                                                    
clear from a  previous day that if the state  did not retain                                                                    
photos it would make it  more difficult for the Alaska State                                                                    
Troopers and other law enforcement  agencies to solve murder                                                                    
cases and cold  cases. It would also make  it more difficult                                                                    
to find  missing persons.  He opined  that everything  was a                                                                    
policy  call and  very  few policy  calls  were 100  percent                                                                    
black and white. He sided  with trying to solve murder cases                                                                    
and finding  missing persons.  It had  been reported  by law                                                                    
enforcement officials that keeping  photos helped them to do                                                                    
both.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
1:42:17 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Ortiz asked  if there  were other  practical                                                                    
benefits  for keeping  these records  on file  for up  to 15                                                                    
years  other  than  what  had   already  been  mentioned  by                                                                    
Representative Gara. Ms. Ridle  responded that it had mainly                                                                    
to do with public safety.  She added that the 15-year period                                                                    
was in state  statute. She reported that it  also helped the                                                                    
DMV to issue a duplicate license.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Representative Wilson did not  understand why an old picture                                                                    
would be kept for 15 years  since she was going back every 8                                                                    
years  to  renew  her license.  Ms.  Ridle  responded  that,                                                                    
foremost, it  was a matter  of public safety.  She mentioned                                                                    
the benefit  of having previous  addresses to help  verify a                                                                    
person's identity.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Wilson asked  at what  point within  the 15-                                                                    
year period DPS  had access to photos.  Ms. Ridle responded,                                                                    
"as needed." She elaborated that  DPS would contact DMV with                                                                    
what they needed.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Representative Wilson wondered about  the benefits of having                                                                    
an  older  license  on  file once  a  person  renewed  their                                                                    
license. Ms.  Ridle suggested having Captain  Lowden respond                                                                    
to  Representative  Wilson's  question.  The  Department  of                                                                    
Public  Safety  might  want to  verify  what  information  a                                                                    
person provided about where they lived.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
1:45:01 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CAPTAIN DANIEL LOWDEN, ALASKA  STATE TROOPERS, DEPARTMENT OF                                                                    
PUBLIC SAFETY  (via teleconference), answered that  when the                                                                    
troopers were working  cases that had any age  to them, such                                                                    
as cold cases,  they liked to get the picture  of the person                                                                    
suspected as close to the time period as possible.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Representative Wilson asked if  the troopers received all of                                                                    
the information rather  than just the photo  from a person's                                                                    
identification card.  Captain Lowden was unsure  of how much                                                                    
of the information was provided  to the troopers. The Alaska                                                                    
State Troopers dealt mostly with  photographs when trying to                                                                    
identify people and  to find wanted persons.  He thought the                                                                    
records  bureau used  more  of the  documents  in trying  to                                                                    
reconcile   a  person's   records.   Sometimes  people   use                                                                    
different names  and it  was necessary  to merge  records or                                                                    
split  them  out. The  troopers  might  use them  for  fraud                                                                    
investigations  or  for  identify  theft  investigations  as                                                                    
well.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Representative Wilson  asked if the groups  he was referring                                                                    
to  were  part of  DPS  or  another entity.  Captain  Lowden                                                                    
answered that  it was  through DPS  in a  different division                                                                    
where the  employees compiled all  records for  every ticket                                                                    
and conviction.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Seaton  asked if a  person had to appear  in person                                                                    
at  the  DMV  for  a driver's  license  renewal.  Ms.  Ridle                                                                    
relayed that the  DMV could issue a  one-time renewal online                                                                    
or in  person. If  a person  lost a  license, the  DMV could                                                                    
provide a duplicate with their paperwork on file.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Seaton reminded  the committee  that he  asked the                                                                    
American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU)  about any breaches of                                                                    
information. He reported that the  ACLU was not aware of any                                                                    
breach or  problem with the  15-year retention  of documents                                                                    
for Alaska.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Representative Stutes  asked if  the records  were currently                                                                    
kept  for  15  years.   Co-Chair  Seaton  responded  in  the                                                                    
affirmative.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative Wilson MAINTAINED her OBJECTION.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
A roll call vote was taken on the motion.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
IN FAVOR: Kawasaki,  Ortiz,  Gara,  Grenn,  Stutes,  Seaton,                                                                    
Foster                                                                                                                          
OPPOSED: Pruitt, Thompson, Tilton, Wilson                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
The MOTION to ADOPT Amendment 2 PASSED (7/4).                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Gara MOVED to ADOPT Amendment 3 (copy on file):                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     Page 1, line 10:                                                                                                           
          Delete "$20"                                                                                                          
          Insert "$10"                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     Page 8, line 27:                                                                                                           
          Delete "$20"                                                                                                          
          Insert "$10"                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Representative Wilson OBJECTED for discussion.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
1:50:25 PM                                                                                                                    
AT EASE                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
1:51:07 PM                                                                                                                    
RECONVENED                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Foster indicated  that Representative  Chris Birch                                                                    
had joined the audience.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair  Gara reported  that the  testimony he  heard was                                                                    
that the  current version  of the  bill added  a $20  fee to                                                                    
obtain a Real ID compliant  driver's license. He thought the                                                                    
amount was  excessive and would  produce roughly  $1 million                                                                    
more revenue  than needed in  FY 19  and FY 20  and $500,000                                                                    
more revenue than needed in FY  21 and FY 22. The department                                                                    
had proposed  a $10 fee  because it  would make the  Real ID                                                                    
license  cost-neutral. However,  a  $20  fee would  generate                                                                    
additional revenue.  He understood the need  for revenue but                                                                    
did not feel it was an  appropriate place to get it. The fee                                                                    
would be a flat charge to people no matter their income.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Ridle responded  that in  the original  version of  the                                                                    
bill the  fee was $5,  the cost of  making the card.  In the                                                                    
previous committee  the amount  was changed  to $20.  If the                                                                    
fee was reduced  to $10, assuming that about  half of people                                                                    
apply for  a Real ID card  (a guess based on  other states),                                                                    
the state should be able to  payoff about $1.06 million in 2                                                                    
years. It  would take a little  more to pay off  the cost of                                                                    
$1.4 million to implement it.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Gara asked Ms. Ridle  whether $10 was an accurate                                                                    
amount to  remain cost-neutral. Ms.  Ridle responded  in the                                                                    
affirmative. At a  certain point $1.5 would be  paid off and                                                                    
the  remainder would  go  back into  the  general fund.  She                                                                    
estimated that  it would take 2.3  to 3 years to  pay of the                                                                    
implementation costs.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair   Gara  asked   about   the  $5   fee  that   the                                                                    
administration had  originally introduced  in the  bill. Ms.                                                                    
Ridle responded  that the $5 fee  would pay for the  cost of                                                                    
the card.  It did not  include the costs  of implementation.                                                                    
If the  fee was  $10, $5  would go  towards paying  the $1.5                                                                    
implementation cost.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Kawasaki  asked if  there  was  a charge  to                                                                    
become  a member  of American  Association of  Motor Vehicle                                                                    
Administrators (AAMVA). Ms. Ridle responded affirmatively.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Kawasaki  wondered  if   the  charge  was  a                                                                    
variable charge  rather than a  fixed charge.  He understood                                                                    
the  charge increased  every year.  Ms. Ridle  did not  know                                                                    
what the state  paid in charges. She  thought Marla Thompson                                                                    
from DMV could answer the question.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
1:55:22 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MARLA  THOMPSON,  DIRECTOR,  DEPARTMENT OF  MOTOR  VEHICLES,                                                                    
DEPARTMENT  OF  ADMINISTRATION (via  teleconference),  asked                                                                    
Representative Kawasaki to repeat the question.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Representative Kawasaki repeated  his question. Ms. Thompson                                                                    
would  have   to  double  check.  The   fees  increased  and                                                                    
decreased, but the  state received notice of  any changes 12                                                                    
months in advance. She would look up the information.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Representative Kawasaki  wanted the answer to  his question.                                                                    
He believed the  fees increased annually. He  thought it was                                                                    
important  because  Alaska  would  have  Real  ID  compliant                                                                    
identifications, and  because the state was  going through a                                                                    
national   privately  owned   non-profit  organization.   He                                                                    
suggested that  the fees would  go up every year.  He wanted                                                                    
to make sure the fiscal  note reflected a downward trend. He                                                                    
thought the  cost for implementing  Real ID in  Alaska would                                                                    
actually go up because of being  part of AAMVA. He asked for                                                                    
the answer in writing.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Representative Pruitt  asked if  the amount was  in addition                                                                    
to the already set fee that the public currently paid for                                                                       
cards.  Ms.  Ridle replied  affirmatively.  It  would be  an                                                                    
additional                                                                                                                      
$20.                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Pruitt asked  when  the  last rate  increase                                                                    
occurred. Ms. Ridle thought it was sometime in the 80s.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Pruitt mentioned  that  4 or  5 years  prior                                                                    
Alaska changed  how it produced  its ID's. He asked  if that                                                                    
particular  program cost  more  than  previously. Ms.  Ridle                                                                    
deferred  to Ms.  Thompson. Ms.  Thompson  replied that  the                                                                    
cost  was  similar  because  at  the  time  managers  really                                                                    
struggled with the printers and  the quality of the products                                                                    
that the  division used. In  the end, her  understanding was                                                                    
that  the  cost  was  similar between  what  the  state  was                                                                    
spending on  printer costs, paper, and  supplies versus what                                                                    
the division did with bids.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Pruitt asked  if  there was  an increase  in                                                                    
cost from  the time  the fee  was set  at $20.  He suggested                                                                    
there  was an  increase in  costs  over the  time frame.  He                                                                    
asked if his statement  was appropriate. Ms. Ridle responded                                                                    
that the  cost most likely  went up over  time, particularly                                                                    
in personnel.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Representative Pruitt asked  if he could expect  the cost to                                                                    
remain  for  an  extended  period  since  $5  was  currently                                                                    
covering the  cost. He wondered  if the state  should expect                                                                    
the amount  to go  up. Ms. Ridle  thought it  would increase                                                                    
incrementally.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Seaton  asked  about  the length  of  the  current                                                                    
driver's license  and what  it would be  under Real  ID. Ms.                                                                    
Ridle answered  that it was  currently a 5-year  renewal and                                                                    
the  Real ID  legislation  would  bump it  up  to an  8-year                                                                    
renewal.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Seaton  mentioned the differences  in cost  and the                                                                    
time between  renewals. At  a fee  of $20,  the cost  of the                                                                    
card would be  $5 to make and an additional  $5 per year for                                                                    
the additional 3 years for a  Real ID with an 8-year renewal                                                                    
instead  of   a  5-year   renewal.  He   asked  if   he  was                                                                    
approximately correct. Ms. Ridle responded affirmatively.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair  Gara  relayed  that  his  understanding  of  the                                                                    
testimony  was  that if  the  state  charged $10,  it  would                                                                    
offset the  cost for the  first 2  years and there  would be                                                                    
some  money left  over in  the out  years. He  thought there                                                                    
would be less money if the  costs went up. He thought it was                                                                    
possible that the  license fee would have to  be raised. Ms.                                                                    
Ridle answered that  the DMV turned money back  to the state                                                                    
every  year  in  an  amount  between  $30  million  and  $45                                                                    
million. It  would be  the will of  the legislature,  at the                                                                    
time, if it wanted to  increase the fee. Basically, it would                                                                    
be a fee to the public.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Representative Wilson MAINTAINED her OBJECTION.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
A roll call vote was taken on the motion.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
IN FAVOR: Ortiz, Gara, Stutes, Kawasaki, Foster                                                                                 
OPPOSED: Pruitt, Thompson, Tilton, Wilson, Grenn, Seaton                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
The MOTION to ADOPT Amendment 3 FAILED (5/6).                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
2:02:14 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative Wilson  MOVED to  ADOPT Amendment 4  (copy on                                                                    
file):                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     Page 2, line 7:                                                                                                            
          Delete "department"                                                                                                   
          Insert "commissioner of administration"                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     Page 2, line 12:                                                                                                           
          Delete "or federal"                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
     Page 2, line 15:                                                                                                           
          Delete "or federal"                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
     Page 4, lines 2 - 10:                                                                                                      
          Delete all material and insert:                                                                                       
               "Sec.   28.05.068.    Prohibition   on   data                                                                    
               sharing. (a)  The department may  not convey,                                                                    
               distribute,  or communicate  data to  be used                                                                    
               in a database, index,  pointer system, or any                                                                    
               other system managed by  an entity other than                                                                    
               the   department,   including  the   American                                                                    
               Association       of      Motor       Vehicle                                                                    
               Administrators."                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     Page 4, line 31:                                                                                                           
          Delete "or federal"                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
     Page 5, line 3:                                                                                                            
          Delete "or federal"                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
     Page 7, line 31:                                                                                                           
          Delete "state"                                                                                                        
          Insert "department"                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Gara OBJECTED for discussion.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Representative Wilson  read the  amendment (see  above). She                                                                    
understood  the  attempt was  to  follow  the Real  ID  Act.                                                                    
However, she  thought the  bill would  require the  state to                                                                    
get  permission from  the federal  government. She  believed                                                                    
the  was the  bill an  overreach as  currently written.  She                                                                    
also  expressed concerns  about security  within AAMVA.  She                                                                    
was unfamiliar  with what security  measures the  entity had                                                                    
in place  and the potential  for an information  breach. She                                                                    
argued that there  was a larger framework around  the use of                                                                    
passport information.  She did  not think the  framework was                                                                    
the  same for  AAMVA.  She supported  matching  the list  of                                                                    
requirements for the Real ID Act.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Gara  was interested in the  department's view of                                                                    
whether the  amendment would violate federal  law. Ms. Ridle                                                                    
pointed to  Page 4,  line 2-10. The  changes would  make the                                                                    
state non-compliant  because AAMVA  was the only  vehicle in                                                                    
which to  check state-to-state  to make  sure there  were no                                                                    
duplicate licenses.  If Alaska was  unable to use  AAMVA, it                                                                    
would  not  be  compliant,  and  Alaska  IDs  would  not  be                                                                    
accepted by Real ID.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Gara asked Ms. Ridle  to remind committee members                                                                    
of the  importance of making  sure a  person did not  have 2                                                                    
licenses.  He also  asked her  to review  other reasons  for                                                                    
checking a person's license. Ms.  Ridle responded that every                                                                    
state  had a  state law  that indicated  a person  could not                                                                    
have 2 licenses.  Also, the state checked to  make sure that                                                                    
someone  was  not under  restrictions  for  a DUI  or  other                                                                    
problem driver  issues in other  states. Mainly, it  was due                                                                    
to  every state  having  a  law that  only  allowed for  one                                                                    
license.  She  added  that  Federal  Homeland  Security  had                                                                    
certified the state-to-state AAMVA  system as meeting strict                                                                    
federal requirements of security.  Homeland Security did not                                                                    
convey  that Alaska  had  to  use AAMVA,  but  it met  their                                                                    
standards  of security.  She reemphasized  that  it was  the                                                                    
only system the state could use to be compliant.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Seaton thought  that  lines 11-16  would make  the                                                                    
state non-compliant. He wondered if  the change on lines 5-6                                                                    
would  make  the  state  non-compliant  with  other  federal                                                                    
regulations such  as commercial driver's licenses.  He asked                                                                    
if he was  accurate. Ms. Ridle reported that  lines 11-16 of                                                                    
the amendment that would make the state non-compliant.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Seaton  asked  about  the  other  lines  being  in                                                                    
conflict  with the  retention of  document requirements  for                                                                    
commercial driver's  licenses. He believed it  was 55 years.                                                                    
Ms. Ridle called for a lifeline.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
2:08:27 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CORI  MILLS,  SPECIAL  ASSISTANT,  OFFICE  OF  THE  ATTORNEY                                                                    
GENERAL, DEPARTMENT OF  LAW, referred to lines  5 through 9.                                                                    
The issue the  department was concerned with  was that there                                                                    
were   several  different   laws  dealing   with  commercial                                                                    
driver's  licenses (CDL),  highways,  and how  to deal  with                                                                    
identification. Eliminating the lines  might not present too                                                                    
many  issues. However,  she was  concerned  it would  become                                                                    
tangled as a person looked  further into the laws. She could                                                                    
not  report off  the top  of her  head exactly  what such  a                                                                    
change might implicate. It  could potentially create another                                                                    
tangle of issues.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Seaton thought  that  if the  state  got into  the                                                                    
problem of  issuing non-compliant CDL's  it would lead  to a                                                                    
greater problem  of not being  able to use Alaskan  CDL's in                                                                    
other states. He would be opposing the amendment.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Representative Wilson reminded  members that the legislature                                                                    
was only  dealing with  the Real  ID Act.  She did  not want                                                                    
other  issues  tied  to  the  Real  ID  Act.  She  expressed                                                                    
concerns about identifying a specific entity in statue.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Foster recognized Representative  Gary Knopp in the                                                                    
audience.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair  Gara suggested  that  the bill  had 2  competing                                                                    
interests.  The  first  was  the  concern  of  the  business                                                                    
community and  labor community that their  members would not                                                                    
be  able to  travel by  plane, into  Canada, and  would have                                                                    
difficulty  getting work  if the  legislature  did not  pass                                                                    
this bill. The flip side  was that there were privacy issues                                                                    
people  were  concerned about.  The  Department  of Law  was                                                                    
concerned about travel  restrictions on workers, businesses,                                                                    
unions,  military  bases,  and  across state  lines  if  the                                                                    
committee  adopted the  amendment. Ms.  Ridle was  concerned                                                                    
about  the items  Vice-Chair  Gara had  brought  up. If  the                                                                    
state  was not  allowed to  use the  AAMVA system,  it would                                                                    
result in some of the things he mentioned.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Gara  understood the privacy  issues. He  was not                                                                    
comfortable with  people not being  able to get to  work. He                                                                    
would be opposing the amendment.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Wilson thought  people  could  get to  work.                                                                    
They had the  option of getting a passport.  She thought the                                                                    
legislature needed  to know how to  protect people's privacy                                                                    
and  to make  sure  the options  were  clearly defined.  She                                                                    
wanted  people to  get to  work but  was concerned  with the                                                                    
amount of  information that would  be provided to  an entity                                                                    
that could change.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Gara MAINTAINED his OBJECTION.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
A roll call vote was taken on the motion.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
IN FAVOR: Pruitt, Tilton, Wilson                                                                                                
OPPOSED:  Grenn, Stutes,  Kawasaki,  Ortiz, Thompson,  Gara,                                                                    
Seaton                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
The MOTION to ADOPT Amendment 4 FAILED (3/8).                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Seaton MOVED to ADOPT Amendment 5 (copy on file):                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     Page 3, lines 1 - 2:                                                                                                       
          Delete all material and insert:                                                                                       
               "(2) shall  scan   and  retain   the  minimum                                                                    
               documents  necessary  for   issuance  of  the                                                                    
               identification  card;  the  department  shall                                                                    
               destroy  any  documents   retained  one  year                                                                    
               after the identification card expires."                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     Page 5, lines 19 - 20:                                                                                                     
          Delete all material and insert:                                                                                       
               "(2) shall  scan   and  retain   the  minimum                                                                    
               documents necessary for  issuance    of   the                                                                    
               driver's   license;   the  department   shall                                                                    
               destroy  any  documents   retained  One  year                                                                    
               after the driver's license expires."                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Representative Wilson MOVED to ADOPT for discussion.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Seaton asked for a brief at ease.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
2:15:29 PM                                                                                                                    
AT EASE                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
2:16:07 PM                                                                                                                    
RECONVENED                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Seaton explained that  the amendment addressed non-                                                                    
compliant ID's  and licenses. It would  allow the department                                                                    
to scan and  retain the minimum documents needed  for a non-                                                                    
compliant  license and  would require  the  documents to  be                                                                    
destroyed  within  one  year after  the  expiration  of  the                                                                    
identification card  or the non-compliant  driver's license.                                                                    
It would  make the  non-compliant ID's essentially  the same                                                                    
as the status of the  current licenses. The intention of the                                                                    
bill was  to offer  an alternative for  people -  they could                                                                    
get  a Real  ID compliant  license  or continue  to use  the                                                                    
current Alaska  Driver's License. However, with  the changes                                                                    
that had been  made, the non-compliant license  would not be                                                                    
applicable  or  identical  and  would  not  serve  the  same                                                                    
purposes as the current driver's  license. A person would no                                                                    
longer be  able to  get a  duplicate license.  Also, without                                                                    
having the  security of retaining the  applicable documents,                                                                    
the  DMV testified  that it  would  be easier  to falsify  a                                                                    
license, as there would not be an audit available to track.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Representative Wilson MAINTAINED her OBJECTION.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
A roll call vote was taken on the motion.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
IN FAVOR: Gara, Grenn, Stutes, Ortiz, Seaton, Foster                                                                            
OPPOSED: Pruitt, Thompson, Tilton, Wilson                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Representative Kawasaki was absent from the vote.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
The MOTION to ADOPT Amendment 5 PASSED (6/4).                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
2:20:37 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Gara MOVED to ADOPT Amendment 6 (copy on file):                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     Page 1, following line 4:                                                                                                  
          Insert a new bill section to read:                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     "* Section 1. The uncodified law of the State of                                                                           
    Alaska is amended by adding a new section to read:                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
          LEGISLATIVE  INTENT.  It  is  the  intent  of  the                                                                    
          legislature that  the state will continue  to work                                                                    
          with the  Alaska delegation  in Congress  to amend                                                                    
          provisions  of P.L.  109-13, Division  B (REAL  ID                                                                    
          Act  of  2005)  that   compromise  the  rights  of                                                                    
          Alaskans   to  the   privacy  of   their  personal                                                                    
          information,   while   protecting   the   nation's                                                                    
          efforts to combat terrorism."                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     Page 1, line 5:                                                                                                            
          Delete "Section 1"                                                                                                    
          Insert "Sec. 2"                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     Renumber the following bill sections accordingly.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     Page 9, line 10:                                                                                                           
          Delete "Sections 13 and 15"                                                                                           
          Insert "Sections 14 and 16"                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     Page 9, line 11:                                                                                                           
          Delete "sec. 16"                                                                                                      
          Insert "sec. 17"                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Representative Pruitt OBJECTED for discussion.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Gara acknowledged that  privacy concerns had been                                                                    
raised with  Real ID.  Amendment 6  conveyed that  the state                                                                    
took privacy  concerns seriously. He thought  that Amendment                                                                    
6 in conjunction with Amendment 1  tried to limit the use of                                                                    
social  security   numbers.  The  amendment   advocated  for                                                                    
Alaska's  congressional delegation  to  continue working  to                                                                    
limit and  reverse the  provisions of the  Real ID  Act that                                                                    
compromised  the privacy  of Alaskans  in  a way  consistent                                                                    
with the  ability to combat  terrorism. There  were concerns                                                                    
about the privacy provisions of  the federal Real ID Act. He                                                                    
was comfortable that Alaska had  to follow it. Otherwise, he                                                                    
thought  it would  compromise the  ability  of people  being                                                                    
able to  travel. He  wanted Alaska's  delegation to  work to                                                                    
reverse  any of  the provisions  of  Real ID  that were  not                                                                    
necessary and compromised people's privacy.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Pruitt  asked that  he  be  added as  a  co-                                                                    
sponsor to the amendment.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Representative Pruitt WITHDREW his OBJECTION.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
There being NO OBJECTION, Amendment 6 was ADOPTED.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Foster asked Vice-Chair  Gara to walk the committee                                                                    
through the fiscal notes.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Gara reviewed the fiscal notes:                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     [New Fiscal Impact Note]                                                                                                   
     Department: Department of Administration                                                                                   
     Appropriation: Motor Vehicles                                                                                              
     Allocation: Motor Vehicles                                                                                                 
     OMB Component Number: 2348                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Representative Pruitt requested an at ease.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
2:23:44 PM                                                                                                                    
AT EASE                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
2:23:58 PM                                                                                                                    
RECONVENED                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair  Gara continued  to review  the fiscal  notes for                                                                    
HB 74:                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     [FN2 - Zero Fiscal Impact]                                                                                                 
     Department: Department of Public Safety                                                                                    
     Appropriation: Statewide Support                                                                                           
     Allocation: Commissioner's Office                                                                                          
     OMB Component Number: 523                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     [FN1 - Zero Fiscal Impact]                                                                                                 
     Department: Department of Military and Veterans                                                                            
     Affairs                                                                                                                    
     Appropriation: Military and Veterans' Affairs                                                                              
     Allocation: Homeland Security and Emergency Management                                                                     
     OMB Component Number: 2657                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair  Gara  referred to  the  first  fiscal note  (OMB                                                                    
Component Number  2348) and explained that  the note assumed                                                                    
a capital appropriation cost of $1.5 million.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Seaton  MOVED  to  report   CSHB  74(FIN)  out  of                                                                    
Committee   with   individual    recommendations   and   the                                                                    
accompanying fiscal notes.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Representative Wilson OBJECTED.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Representative Wilson  spoke to her objection.  She believed                                                                    
the bill was important.  She thought the legislation allowed                                                                    
the   state  to   continue  to   scan  and   retain  private                                                                    
information  for 15  years. She  disagreed with  the 15-year                                                                    
period  and with  sharing the  information  provided to  the                                                                    
DMV. She was  also concerned with giving  the information to                                                                    
a private  entity and with  the federal  government changing                                                                    
the  rules no  longer requiring  a Real  ID. She  could have                                                                    
supported  the bill  prior to  adopting  the amendments  but                                                                    
could not support  it in its current from.  She stressed the                                                                    
importance   of   protecting   individuals'   privacy.   She                                                                    
disagreed  with the  argument that  people could  not go  to                                                                    
work   without   an  ID.   She   felt   that  people   could                                                                    
alternatively  obtain a  passport. She  understood that  the                                                                    
bill   would  make   it  more   convenient.  The   bill  had                                                                    
essentially  removed  driver's  licenses and  replaced  them                                                                    
with federal IDs. She would not be supporting the bill.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
2:27:51 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair    Gara   understood    Representative   Wilson's                                                                    
concerns.  The   concerns  were  really  with   the  state's                                                                    
congressional delegation  and the  actions of  congress. The                                                                    
state's choice was  to make it more difficult  for people to                                                                    
travel  and   work,  to  have   to  carry   around  multiple                                                                    
documents,  pay extra  for a  passport card  and a  driver's                                                                    
license, or have to carry  around a passport. He thought the                                                                    
question was  whether the  state was going  to make  it more                                                                    
difficult for people to work.  The bill contained provisions                                                                    
to encourage congress  to make changes to the  law. He would                                                                    
be siding in favor of getting people to work.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Representative Wilson MAINTAINED her OBJECTION.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
A roll call vote was taken on the motion.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
IN FAVOR: Thompson. Gara, Grenn, Stutes, Kawasaki, Ortiz,                                                                       
Pruitt, Foster, Seaton                                                                                                          
OPPOSED: Tilton, Wilson                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
The MOTION to REPORT OUT CSHB 74 (FIN) PASSED (9/2).                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CSHB 74(FIN) was  REPORTED out of committee  with an "amend"                                                                    
recommendation  and with  a new  fiscal impact  note by  the                                                                    
Department  of   Administration  and  with   two  previously                                                                    
published zero fiscal notes: FN1(MVA) and FN2(DPS).                                                                             
                                                                                                                                

Document Name Date/Time Subjects
HB142 Memo of Changes 4.15.17.pdf HFIN 5/9/2017 1:30:00 PM
HB 142
HB142 Additional Documents-Unemployment Insurance Handbook 4.15.17.pdf HFIN 5/9/2017 1:30:00 PM
HB 142
HB 142 Additional Documents-WBA charts 4.15.17.pdf HFIN 5/9/2017 1:30:00 PM
HB 142
HB142 Opposing Documents - Opposition Letters 4.15.17.pdf HFIN 5/9/2017 1:30:00 PM
HB 142
HB142 Sectional Analysis 4.15.17.pdf HFIN 5/9/2017 1:30:00 PM
HB 142
HB142 Sponsor Statement 4.15.17.pdf HFIN 5/9/2017 1:30:00 PM
HB 142
HB142 Supporting Document - Support Letters 4.15.17.pdf HFIN 5/9/2017 1:30:00 PM
HB 142
HB142 Supporting Document-MWBA Analysis 4.15.17.pdf HFIN 5/9/2017 1:30:00 PM
HB 142
HB 74 Real ID Letter from Commissioner Fisher May 5 2017.pdf HFIN 5/9/2017 1:30:00 PM
HB 74
HB 124 Amendment 2 Foster.pdf HFIN 5/9/2017 1:30:00 PM
HB 124
HB 124 Amendment 1 Foster v.D.1.pdf HFIN 5/9/2017 1:30:00 PM
HB 124
HB 74 Amendments 1 - 4.pdf HFIN 5/9/2017 1:30:00 PM
HB 74
HB 74 _ background_complications of not retaining documents from non-compliant IDS.pdf HFIN 5/9/2017 1:30:00 PM
HB 74
HB 74 Native Am Airport Screening .pdf HFIN 5/9/2017 1:30:00 PM
HB 74
HB74_Oppose_050917.pdf HFIN 5/9/2017 1:30:00 PM
HB 74
HB74_Support_050917.pdf HFIN 5/9/2017 1:30:00 PM
HB 74
HB 74 Amendment NEW NEW 1.PDF HFIN 5/9/2017 1:30:00 PM
HB 74
HB 74 Amendment 5 .PDF HFIN 5/9/2017 1:30:00 PM
HB 74
HB 74 _ background_complications of not retaining documents from non-compliant IDS.pdf HFIN 5/9/2017 1:30:00 PM
HB 74