Legislature(2017 - 2018)HOUSE FINANCE 519

04/20/2017 01:30 PM House FINANCE

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Audio Topic
01:36:18 PM Start
01:39:24 PM HB74
04:35:32 PM Adjourn
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
<Bill Hearing Canceled>
<Bill Hearing Canceled>
<Bill Hearing Canceled>
+ Bills Previously Heard/Scheduled TELECONFERENCED
Heard & Held
-- Testimony <Invitation Only> --
                  HOUSE FINANCE COMMITTEE                                                                                       
                      April 20, 2017                                                                                            
                         1:36 p.m.                                                                                              
1:36:18 PM                                                                                                                    
CALL TO ORDER                                                                                                                 
Co-Chair Seaton  called the House Finance  Committee meeting                                                                    
to order at 1:36 p.m.                                                                                                           
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
Representative Paul Seaton, Co-Chair                                                                                            
Representative Les Gara, Vice-Chair                                                                                             
Representative Jason Grenn                                                                                                      
Representative David Guttenberg                                                                                                 
Representative Scott Kawasaki                                                                                                   
Representative Lance Pruitt                                                                                                     
Representative Cathy Tilton                                                                                                     
Representative Tammie Wilson                                                                                                    
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
Representative Neal Foster, Co-Chair                                                                                            
Representative Dan Ortiz                                                                                                        
Representative Steve Thompson                                                                                                   
ALSO PRESENT                                                                                                                  
Leslie   Ridle,    Deputy   Commissioner,    Department   of                                                                    
PRESENT VIA TELECONFERENCE                                                                                                    
Sheldon Fisher, Commissioner,  Department of Administration;                                                                    
Brian   P.   Duffy,   Director,   Administrative   Services,                                                                    
Department  of Military  and Veterans  Affairs; Dan  Lowden,                                                                    
Captain,  Alaska   State  Troopers,  Department   of  Public                                                                    
Safety;   Marla  Thompson,   Director,  Division   of  Motor                                                                    
Vehicles,  Department of  Administration;  Tara Rich,  Legal                                                                    
and Policy  Director, ACLU of  Alaska, Anchorage;  Tom Roth,                                                                    
Chief   Operating   Office,   Anchorage   School   District,                                                                    
Anchorage;  Thor  Brown,  Teamsters  959,  Anchorage;  Julie                                                                    
Duquette,  Associate  Builders and  Contractors,  Fairbanks;                                                                    
Scott Eickholt,  Alaska Laborers Local 942,  Fairbanks; Kara                                                                    
Moriarty, President and Chief  Executive Officer, Alaska Oil                                                                    
and  Gas  Association  (AOGA), Anchorage;  Tim  Jones,  Vice                                                                    
President  of  Administration, Doyon  Utilities,  Fairbanks;                                                                    
Jeff  Stepp, Staff  to Fairbanks  North  Star Borough  Mayor                                                                    
Karl  Kassel,  Fairbanks;   Meg  Nordale,  President,  GHEMM                                                                    
Company, Inc., Fairbanks.                                                                                                       
HB 74     DRIVER'S LICENSE & ID CARDS & REAL ID ACT                                                                             
          HB 74 was HEARD and HELD in committee for further                                                                     
Co-Chair Seaton reviewed the meeting agenda.                                                                                    
Representative Wilson asked if  a multi-state issue would be                                                                    
Co-Chair Seaton  replied there would be  a presentation from                                                                    
the  Department of  Administration  (DOA).  He deferred  the                                                                    
question to the department during its presentation.                                                                             
Co-Chair  Seaton announced  that public  testimony would  be                                                                    
the following Tuesday from 4:30 p.m. to 7:00 p.m.                                                                               
Representative Kawasaki relayed  that National Conference of                                                                    
State Legislatures  (NCSL) was holding a  webinar to discuss                                                                    
the REAL ID Act the following morning.                                                                                          
HOUSE BILL NO. 74                                                                                                             
     "An Act  relating to the implementation  of the federal                                                                    
     REAL  ID  Act of  2005;  and  relating to  issuance  of                                                                    
     identification   cards  and   driver's  licenses;   and                                                                    
     providing for an effective date."                                                                                          
1:39:24 PM                                                                                                                    
SHELDON FISHER,  COMMISSIONER, DEPARTMENT  OF ADMINISTRATION                                                                    
(via  teleconference),  provided a  PowerPoint  presentation                                                                    
titled "CSHB 74  Driver's Licenses and ID Cards  and REAL ID                                                                    
Act" dated  April 19, 2017  (copy on file). He  listed staff                                                                    
available  to testify.  He turned  to slide  2 and  provided                                                                    
background about  the federal  REAL ID  Act that  covered 50                                                                    
states, 5 territories, and Washington,  D.C. He relayed that                                                                    
it   would   establish    minimum   requirements   for   the                                                                    
identification to  be valid in federal  facilities. He noted                                                                    
that  occasionally there  was an  argument that  the federal                                                                    
government should  not require  states to dictate  to states                                                                    
how they  may produce identification.  He believed it  was a                                                                    
valid concern,  but he thought the  federal government would                                                                    
argue it  was not mandating states  to do anything -  it was                                                                    
merely setting a  standard if individuals want  to use state                                                                    
identification in federal facilities.                                                                                           
Commissioner Fisher  discussed that the process  mandated by                                                                    
REAL ID Act  required the state to do two  things. First, it                                                                    
required the state  to take a photo at the  beginning of the                                                                    
process for  comparison against  the individual  receiving a                                                                    
license at the  end of the process to ensure  there had been                                                                    
no  fraud  between  the   person  presenting  documents  for                                                                    
validation  and the  person photographed  and receiving  the                                                                    
license or  identification. The act also  required the state                                                                    
to  validate  the  primary documents  used  in  establishing                                                                    
eligibility for  a license. There  were currently  26 states                                                                    
offering  REAL  ID  compliant  cards  and  20  more  states,                                                                    
including  Alaska, which  had extensions.  He detailed  that                                                                    
while Alaska did not currently offer  a REAL ID card, it was                                                                    
not  out  of  compliance.  Alaska  residents  had  not  been                                                                    
impacted  by the  act, but  it could  change in  the future.                                                                    
There  were  currently  4  states  that  were  non-compliant                                                                    
including  Maine, Montana,  Minnesota,  and Missouri;  these                                                                    
states did  not have a REAL  ID card and had  not received a                                                                    
waiver. He elaborated that  Washington had recently received                                                                    
a waiver from  the Department of Homeland  Security and bill                                                                    
similar  to HB  74 had  recently passed  both houses  of the                                                                    
Washington State  Legislature. He  did not believe  the bill                                                                    
had been signed into law yet.                                                                                                   
1:44:00 PM                                                                                                                    
Representative Guttenberg  asked about a compliant  card and                                                                    
asked if it was a passport  card or something with a chip or                                                                    
other.  He referred  to a  note on  slide 2  indicating that                                                                    
Minnesota had enhanced IDs with chip cards.                                                                                     
Commissioner  Fisher answered  that  essentially there  were                                                                    
certain requirements  to have a  REAL ID compliant  card. He                                                                    
detailed that  cards with chips  also satisfied  the federal                                                                    
requirement. He  continued that Alaska did  not have either;                                                                    
therefore,  without a  change in  the law,  Alaska residents                                                                    
would   be  required   to  have   an  alternative   form  of                                                                    
identification  (i.e. a  passport or  other). He  noted that                                                                    
the department  had a list  of acceptable  alternative forms                                                                    
of identification.                                                                                                              
1:45:32 PM                                                                                                                    
Co-Chair Seaton  noted Representative Guttenberg  would wait                                                                    
for more detail later in the presentation.                                                                                      
Representative  Wilson  asked   about  non-compliant  states                                                                    
including  Missouri and  Maine.  She  wondered about  issues                                                                    
that  had  arisen  in  those   states  related  to  REAL  ID                                                                    
compliance  and assumed  residents needed  to use  passports                                                                    
instead of driver's licenses.                                                                                                   
Commissioner  Fisher   answered  that  the   assumption  was                                                                    
partially true.  He addressed consequences that  would occur                                                                    
if the  legislation did not pass;  under current enforcement                                                                    
the  consequences may  vary. For  example, if  an individual                                                                    
with a  non-compliant license tried  to get on  a [military]                                                                    
base in one  of the non-compliant states,  they would either                                                                    
be turned away  or would have limited access  where they had                                                                    
to be  accompanied by  an official from  the base.  He noted                                                                    
the  option   was  somewhat   cumbersome  and   limited  the                                                                    
individual's  time and  activity on  the base.  He explained                                                                    
that  at  present  there  were  alternatives  available.  He                                                                    
detailed that if  a person showed up without  a license they                                                                    
could  verify   themselves  in   other  ways   including  an                                                                    
alternative form  of identification or enhanced  search. The                                                                    
department was being assured  that any individual attempting                                                                    
to travel without a REAL ID  after January 1, 2018, would be                                                                    
turned away.  He underscored that the  current options would                                                                    
no longer be available. He  used Montana and Minnesota as an                                                                    
example  and explained  that the  enhanced search  option or                                                                    
alternative identification would no longer be available.                                                                        
1:48:29 PM                                                                                                                    
Representative Wilson  stated that  Missouri had  some large                                                                    
federal  bases  and that  the  state  overall had  a  larger                                                                    
population. She found it interesting  that she had not heard                                                                    
many complaints  on why Missouri  or Maine had  decided what                                                                    
they  were doing  was not  a  good idea.  She surmised  they                                                                    
would  be hearing  more negative  information if  it [action                                                                    
under  the  bill] was  something  that  had  to be  done  at                                                                    
Commissioner  Fisher  deferred  to  another  department  for                                                                    
BRIAN   P.   DUFFY,   DIRECTOR,   ADMINISTRATIVE   SERVICES,                                                                    
DEPARTMENT   OF   MILITARY   AND   VETERANS   AFFAIRS   (via                                                                    
teleconference), used  Fort Leonard  Wood in Missouri  as an                                                                    
example of  a federal  base. He compared  the base  to Joint                                                                    
Base  Elmendorf-Richardson  in  Anchorage.  He  shared  that                                                                    
before  retiring  from active  duty  he  had served  as  the                                                                    
installation  commander from  2012  to 2014.  At the  Alaska                                                                    
base there  was an estimated 14,000  local service providers                                                                    
and contractors that would be  affected and required to have                                                                    
alternative forms  of identification  or would  otherwise be                                                                    
unable  to access  the installation.  He  continued that  it                                                                    
would  be highly  unreasonable  to  assume the  installation                                                                    
would provide escort  for all the visitors.  He referenced a                                                                    
previous Joint  Armed Services  Committee meeting  where the                                                                    
commander  at   Fort  Leavenworth  had  provided   the  same                                                                    
information.   Additionally,    Fort   Wainwright   provided                                                                    
estimates of  about 5,000  per month  and Eielson  Air Force                                                                    
Base provided estimates of about 2,600 per month.                                                                               
Co-Chair  Seaton  clarified   that  Representative  Wilson's                                                                    
question  pertained to  whether there  had been  problems in                                                                    
Mr. Duffy  answered that he  had not been  tracking specific                                                                    
problems of bases in Missouri.                                                                                                  
Representative  Wilson remarked  "and they're  non-compliant                                                                    
so that kind of makes you wonder."                                                                                              
Commissioner  Fisher  replied there  was  an  example of  an                                                                    
individual in Washington that was  subject to the same rules                                                                    
and had  very little  access. He  noted that  Washington had                                                                    
not been compliant until several  weeks earlier. He asked if                                                                    
Deputy  Commissioner  Leslie  Ridle wanted  to  address  the                                                                    
Co-Chair Seaton declined to hear more about the topic.                                                                          
Vice-Chair Gara referred  to Commissioner Fisher's statement                                                                    
that  Washington  had  received   an  extension  by  passing                                                                    
statute. He shared  that when the REAL ID Act  had passed he                                                                    
had privacy  concerns. He  noted that  the state  had passed                                                                    
legislation to  implement its privacy concerns.  He asked if                                                                    
Washington's  extension  lasted  any longer  than  Alaska's,                                                                    
which expired in the coming January.                                                                                            
Commissioner   Fisher   answered   that   Alaska's   current                                                                    
extension expired  on June  6 [2017].  Beginning on  June 7,                                                                    
REAL  ID compliant  identification would  be required  under                                                                    
normal  circumstances. The  administration had  been assured                                                                    
that if the  legislation passed, the state  would receive an                                                                    
additional extension  that would provide time  for the state                                                                    
to become  compliant. The  [federal] Department  of Homeland                                                                    
Security  understood   that  it  would  take   a  period  of                                                                    
implementation.  He  relayed  the  department  had  been  in                                                                    
conversation with  the Department  of Homeland  Security and                                                                    
had been assured  that if the legislation did  not pass, the                                                                    
state would  not receive another waiver.  The administration                                                                    
had been  told that  it could  not receive  a waiver  if the                                                                    
current  legislative session  was  still going  in June.  He                                                                    
relayed that the State of  Washington waiver was also set to                                                                    
expire  on June  6, but  he  believed that  with its  recent                                                                    
passage  of legislation,  Washington  would receive  another                                                                    
waiver  to  provide  the  state  an  opportunity  to  become                                                                    
Co-Chair  Seaton   asked  for   clarification  on   who  was                                                                    
speaking.   Commissioner  Fisher   clarified  he   had  been                                                                    
1:54:45 PM                                                                                                                    
Representative Kawasaki requested a  list of the individuals                                                                    
available online for questions.                                                                                                 
Commissioner   Fisher  moved   briefly   to   slide  3.   He                                                                    
communicated that the bill was  needed because current state                                                                    
law  prohibited the  Division of  Motor Vehicles  (DMV) from                                                                    
spending state  funds to comply  with the [federal]  REAL ID                                                                    
Act.  Without a  change in  state law,  the state  could not                                                                    
Representative Kawasaki  referred to a letter  from the ACLU                                                                    
that the  department was collecting information  outside the                                                                    
original scope  of typical driver's  licenses. He  asked for                                                                    
the accuracy of the claim.                                                                                                      
Commissioner Fisher  answered in  the negative.  He detailed                                                                    
that by  statute, the department could  collect and maintain                                                                    
individuals' applications, which it  did. The department was                                                                    
also allowed  by statute to maintain  and store individuals'                                                                    
photos. The department  maintained and stored a  copy of the                                                                    
primary  documents   provided  by  applicants   (e.g.  birth                                                                    
certificate, passport,  or other).  The ability  to maintain                                                                    
the  documents enabled  the department  to reissue  licenses                                                                    
when they  had been lost  or expired. He concluded  that the                                                                    
ability  to  store the  information  provided  a benefit  to                                                                    
Representative  Kawasaki  asked  for verification  that  the                                                                    
State of Alaska had sole possession of the data.                                                                                
Commissioner Fisher  answered in  the affirmative.  He added                                                                    
that  part of  the  department's  issuance process  involved                                                                    
confirming  that an  individual did  not have  a license  in                                                                    
another state.  To do  so, the  department shared  a minimal                                                                    
amount of  private information that included  five digits of                                                                    
an   individual's   social   security  number   (SSN).   The                                                                    
department did  not share  applications, photos,  or primary                                                                    
1:58:40 PM                                                                                                                    
Representative  Kawasaki  asked  if  the  five-digits  of  a                                                                    
person's  SSN had  always been  used pertaining  to driver's                                                                    
licenses.  Alternatively, he  wondered if  use of  the five-                                                                    
digit number was a new practice.                                                                                                
Commissioner Fisher  answered the practice had  been enacted                                                                    
recently,   which  mandated   the   five-digit  number.   He                                                                    
understood  the sensitivity,  therefore, the  department was                                                                    
in  discussion with  AAMVA  [American  Association of  Motor                                                                    
Vehicle  Administrators]  to   facilitate  the  transfer  of                                                                    
information.  He noted  that  his  colleague Marla  Thompson                                                                    
[DMV director]  was present and  was assuming a role  on the                                                                    
AAMVA board.  The department was  planning to try  to reduce                                                                    
the number  of digits shared.   He elaborated that  the full                                                                    
SSN  had  been  shared  by  the  department  for  commercial                                                                    
driver's licenses as required by federal law.                                                                                   
Representative  Kawasaki asked  if  the  five-digit SSN  was                                                                    
required by the REAL ID Act.                                                                                                    
Commissioner Fisher  replied in the negative.  He elaborated                                                                    
that the system had been  implemented to try to simplify the                                                                    
process  of comparing  and ensuring  that an  individual did                                                                    
not  inappropriately  have  multiple licenses  for  multiple                                                                    
jurisdictions. He  furthered that the department  had always                                                                    
done  that.  He  explained  that  when  the  department  had                                                                    
implemented  the  system  there  had  been  a  few  thousand                                                                    
individuals  who  had  multiple  licenses  that  had  fallen                                                                    
through  the process.  He believed  there  was an  important                                                                    
fraud detection  component that did  have a benefit  for the                                                                    
Representative  Kawasaki asked  if  it was  illegal to  have                                                                    
multiple  driver's  licenses   in  different  jurisdictions.                                                                    
Commissioner  Fisher replied  in the  affirmative; it  was a                                                                    
violation of Alaska law.                                                                                                        
2:01:46 PM                                                                                                                    
Representative Wilson  asked if the new  system Commissioner                                                                    
Fisher was speaking about was  related to a contract with an                                                                    
organization in Indiana.                                                                                                        
Commissioner Fisher replied  that he was referring  to a new                                                                    
state-to-state system  that was managed and  administered by                                                                    
Representative  Wilson   asked  it  had  been   included  in                                                                    
legislation   sponsored  by   Senator  Peter   Micciche  the                                                                    
previous year when Alaska had joined the multi-state.                                                                           
Commissioner  Fisher  asked  if  Representative  Wilson  was                                                                    
referring  to  ERIC   [Electronic  Registration  Information                                                                    
Center],  which  focused  on preventing  voter  registration                                                                    
Representative Wilson answered in the affirmative.                                                                              
Commissioner   Fisher  responded   that  the   system  under                                                                    
discussion  was different  [from  ERIC].  He explained  that                                                                    
under ERIC  the state  shared the  same type  of information                                                                    
already.  He clarified  that the  Division of  Elections and                                                                    
DOA shared the data with ERIC.                                                                                                  
Representative  Wilson asked  if the  state was  sharing the                                                                    
five digits with ERIC or the full SSN.                                                                                          
Commissioner Fisher replied  that four digits of  a SSN were                                                                    
shared  with  ERIC. He  elaborated  that  ERIC had  slightly                                                                    
different information.                                                                                                          
Representative Wilson  thought four  [digits] was  still too                                                                    
many for many individuals.                                                                                                      
Co-Chair Seaton asked members  to hold any non-clarification                                                                    
questions until the presentation was completed.                                                                                 
2:04:04 PM                                                                                                                    
Commissioner  Fisher  moved  to  slide  4  titled  "CSHB  74                                                                    
Driver's  License, State  IDs,  REAL ID  ACT." He  explained                                                                    
that the bill  had been structured by  the administration to                                                                    
offer Alaskans a  choice. He detailed that  if an individual                                                                    
did not want  a REAL ID compliant license they  did not have                                                                    
to obtain one.  However, the bill provided the  DMV with the                                                                    
ability  to  establish  a  REAL  ID  compliant  license  for                                                                    
individuals who  wanted one. The  bill would also  allow DMV                                                                    
to extend the term of a  license to eight years (an increase                                                                    
from  the current  five-year term).  He  continued that  the                                                                    
bill  attempted to  address privacy  concerns -  it directed                                                                    
the  DMV  to  destroy  scanned documents  once  the  minimal                                                                    
retention is  met; created a  limit of nine years  for photo                                                                    
storage    for    non-compliant   driver's    license    and                                                                    
identification; prohibited  the DMV from  scanning, copying,                                                                    
or  retaining  in any  form  documents  for a  non-compliant                                                                    
identification;  and restricted  data sharing  with entities                                                                    
to the  minimum amount  necessary to  be certified  for REAL                                                                    
ID, while still allowing SSN  and other data transfer to the                                                                    
non-profit  ERIC for  voter  registration  issues. The  bill                                                                    
required the  DMV to work  with other states to  address the                                                                    
use of  SSNs. He reiterated  his earlier statement  that the                                                                    
department  was going  to try  to reduce  the number  of SSN                                                                    
digits it shared. The bill  would also prohibit the DMV from                                                                    
engaging in bulk sharing of  photos. He noted that the state                                                                    
had never engaged in the bulk sharing of photos.                                                                                
Commissioner Fisher elaborated on  the slide. He referred to                                                                    
an  individual  available  from  the  Department  of  Public                                                                    
Safety (DPS)  to address  a specific  issue. He  believed it                                                                    
was important to  understand that DPS used  the material for                                                                    
a  number of  important  and  legitimate purposes  including                                                                    
missing persons, identifying  deceased persons, and criminal                                                                    
investigative activity.                                                                                                         
Co-Chair  Seaton  asked if  DPS  wanted  to address  privacy                                                                    
concern issues.                                                                                                                 
DAN LOWDEN,  CAPTAIN, ALASKA  STATE TROOPERS,  DEPARTMENT OF                                                                    
PUBLIC  SAFETY (via  teleconference), relayed  that DPS  had                                                                    
some  concerns  about  its  ability  to  access  photos  and                                                                    
documents. He  noted that the  department had sent  a letter                                                                    
outlining the  concerns [letter  addressed to  the co-chairs                                                                    
dated April  17, 2017 from  DPS legislative  liaison Allison                                                                    
Hanzawa  (copy on  file)]. The  department  used for  myriad                                                                    
tools  including missing  person fliers,  wanted fliers,  to                                                                    
identify  deceased  individuals,  and  on  the  street  when                                                                    
people had no identification.  He explained the photos could                                                                    
help  identify  the  individuals  and could  be  emailed  or                                                                    
texted from a  dispatcher to the officer on the  street on a                                                                    
phone  or car  computer. They  were used  for photo  lineups                                                                    
(arrays)  to  help identify  suspects.  He  shared that  the                                                                    
Records  and  Identification  Bureau  frequently  worked  to                                                                    
reconcile records. He detailed  there were times when people                                                                    
acquired criminal  histories using  different names;  it was                                                                    
necessary for the department to  try to merge those records.                                                                    
There were  also times  when two names  were similar  and it                                                                    
was necessary to  determine whether they belonged  to one or                                                                    
two individuals.  He explained that restricting  the ability                                                                    
for DPS to access the  documents would impair its ability to                                                                    
conduct investigations, find missing people, and so forth.                                                                      
2:10:18 PM                                                                                                                    
Vice-Chair Gara did not want  to create unnecessary cost for                                                                    
little reason. He asked if it  would be possible for the DMV                                                                    
to transfer  the information to  DPS prior to  destroying it                                                                    
(if it would be helpful to DPS).                                                                                                
Mr.  Lowden   answered  that  if   the  DMV   destroyed  the                                                                    
information the troopers would not have access.                                                                                 
Vice-Chair Gara  asked understood  the concern. He  asked if                                                                    
the DMV could  transfer the data to DPS  prior to destroying                                                                    
it, without any  major cost. Mr. Lowden replied  it would be                                                                    
one way to approach the situation.                                                                                              
Vice-Chair Gara thought  it would be the  ideal situation if                                                                    
there was no cost and the information could be encrypted.                                                                       
Co-Chair Seaton referred  to language on slide 4  of the DOA                                                                    
presentation:  "prohibits  DMV  from scanning,  copying,  or                                                                    
retaining in any form documents  for a non-compliant DL/ID."                                                                    
He  reasoned that  if DMV  could not  scan the  documents it                                                                    
would not have the ability  to provide them to another state                                                                    
agency. He continued  that whether the DMV or  DPS should be                                                                    
the repository  of information was something  to consider at                                                                    
a  later time.  He referred  to the  letter from  DPS [dated                                                                    
April  17, 2017]  and observed  that  it did  not include  a                                                                    
request for a  document retention period (e.g.  20 years, 30                                                                    
years, or indefinitely). He asked  the department to provide                                                                    
additional detail if  it wanted a certain  bill provision to                                                                    
be changed.                                                                                                                     
Mr.  Lowden  responded  that  DPS would  like  to  have  the                                                                    
information  retained as  long  as  reasonably possible.  He                                                                    
detailed that  the information had  been used in  cold cases                                                                    
that were  a number of  years old.  He would speak  with the                                                                    
commissioner's office  and they would provide  a timeline to                                                                    
the co-chairs.                                                                                                                  
2:13:37 PM                                                                                                                    
Commissioner  Fisher replied  that  the  department did  not                                                                    
really feel it  had a stake in whether the  DMV was the best                                                                    
repository, but he  stressed that the data  was encrypted in                                                                    
its data  bases. He continued  to address slide 4.  The bill                                                                    
would prohibit  the state  or municipalities  from requiring                                                                    
people to have  a REAL ID compliant license.  The bill would                                                                    
impose an  additional fee of  $20 that would cover  the cost                                                                    
of issuing  the licenses.  In addition to  offering Alaskans                                                                    
the  choice, those  who chose  the compliant  licenses would                                                                    
pay an additional  fee to cover the  cost. Additionally, the                                                                    
bill  would allow  the  DMV to  offer  licenses to  non-U.S.                                                                    
citizens for up to eight years.                                                                                                 
Commissioner  Fisher  referenced  an  earlier  question  and                                                                    
relayed  that  the  Missouri House  of  Representatives  had                                                                    
recently  passed legislation  approving compliance  with the                                                                    
REAL ID  standard. He  referred to  an online  article [U.S.                                                                    
News article  dated March 30,  2017] that  quoted [Missouri]                                                                    
Representative  Steve  Lynch  as stating  that  the  state's                                                                    
inaction had caused problems in the area:                                                                                       
     "Everywhere I  go, every weekend,  I run  across people                                                                    
     that stop me and tell me  'We need to fix this issue,'"                                                                    
     he said.  "People are angry. They  are frustrated. Many                                                                    
     people still  visit Ft. Leonard  Wood, but all  of them                                                                    
     are concerned that  they may lose access  to air travel                                                                    
     next year."                                                                                                                
Commissioner Fisher  elaborated that the quote  reflected at                                                                    
least   one  Missourian's   expression   of  concern   about                                                                    
challenges pertaining to the REAL ID Act.                                                                                       
Co-Chair Seaton pointed to the  last bullet point on slide 4                                                                    
stating that the bill would  allow the DMV to offer licenses                                                                    
to non-U.S. citizens for up to  eight years. He and asked if                                                                    
it  included both  REAL ID  Act compliant  and non-compliant                                                                    
Commissioner Fisher believed so.  He deferred to a colleague                                                                    
for confirmation.                                                                                                               
LESLIE   RIDLE,    DEPUTY   COMMISSIONER,    DEPARTMENT   OF                                                                    
ADMINISTRATION,  answered in  the affirmative;  the licenses                                                                    
could be REAL ID compliant.                                                                                                     
Representative Pruitt  referred to the  eight-year timeframe                                                                    
and assumed  the license  would expire at  the time  a green                                                                    
card or other documentation expired.                                                                                            
Ms. Ridle answered in the  affirmative. She detailed that if                                                                    
a person had a green card  allowing them to live in the U.S.                                                                    
for  five  years,  the  license would  not  go  beyond  that                                                                    
timeframe.  However,  some individuals  had  indefinite-stay                                                                    
cards that would  enable the license to be  obtained for the                                                                    
full eight years (just like a normal license).                                                                                  
2:17:38 PM                                                                                                                    
Commissioner Fisher  advanced to  slide 5 titled  "What Will                                                                    
Change for REAL ID Compliant Cards":                                                                                            
     · Alaska DMV will take a photo at the start of an of                                                                       
        application process and store that image in Alaska                                                                      
     · DMV will validate birth certificate, passport, or                                                                        
        immigration documents                                                                                                   
     · REAL ID compliant DLs/IDs will have unique design or                                                                     
        color indicator to clearly distinguish from                                                                             
        noncompliant cards                                                                                                      
     · DLs/IDs will be valid for 8 years instead of 5                                                                           
     Under CS for HB 74--Non-Compliant DLs/IDs                                                                                  
     · Will not be eligible for online renewal                                                                                  
     · Cannot be duplicated or replaced without showing                                                                         
        documents again                                                                                                         
Commissioner  Fisher  elaborated on  slide  5.  A photo  was                                                                    
taken at the start of  the application process to ensure the                                                                    
same  individual received  the  license at  the  end of  the                                                                    
process. He  shared that each validation  by DMV constituted                                                                    
a  "dip" into  a  database to  verify  that an  individual's                                                                    
birth certificate, passport,  and immigration documents were                                                                    
present. He clarified  that DOA would not  be establishing a                                                                    
database,  it would  merely be  confirming that  information                                                                    
was  present   in  existing  databases.  He   noted  it  was                                                                    
important to understand that  under the current legislation,                                                                    
there  would be  some implications  for people  who elect  a                                                                    
non-compliant  license. He  explained that  because DMV  did                                                                    
not  store  any  documents,  the individuals  would  not  be                                                                    
eligible for  online renewal and  would need to return  to a                                                                    
DMV with  their primary  documents (e.g.  birth certificate)                                                                    
to receive a replacement license  in the event a license was                                                                    
lost.  At present,  if  an individual  lost  a license  they                                                                    
could go to  a DMV where staff could  visually confirm their                                                                    
identity and issue a replacement license.                                                                                       
2:20:08 PM                                                                                                                    
Commissioner  Fisher turned  to slide  6 titled  "What Won't                                                                    
     · DMV will still require the primary document,                                                                             
        secondary document and proof of Alaska residency for                                                                    
        compliant and noncompliant cards                                                                                        
     · DMV will continue to background check employees and                                                                      
        Business Partners                                                                                                       
     · DMV will continue to use a secure facility to                                                                            
        produce compliant and noncompliant cards                                                                                
Commissioner Fisher  moved to a  bubble chart  outlining the                                                                    
REAL ID  process on slide  7. Highlighted text on  the slide                                                                    
reflected changes  from the  current process.  A box  on the                                                                    
upper  left  indicated  a  photo  would  be  taken  with  an                                                                    
application. A  larger box  in the  middle showed  the three                                                                    
different databases  the department used to  validate either                                                                    
a   person's   birth   certificate,   passport,   or   other                                                                    
immigration documentation.                                                                                                      
Commissioner Fisher spoke to the  timeline on slide 8. There                                                                    
were two  important upcoming  dates. The  first was  June 7,                                                                    
2017 when Alaska's waiver from  the Homeland Security Agency                                                                    
ended. At that time Alaska  residents with an Alaska license                                                                    
would need to present  an alternative form of identification                                                                    
to  access military  bases and  federal facilities.  Second,                                                                    
beginning on January  22, 2018, a REAL  ID compliant license                                                                    
or another form of  federal identification would be required                                                                    
to pass  through TSA security  checkpoints (unless  a waiver                                                                    
was received). The final date was  October 1, 2020 - REAL ID                                                                    
compliant ID/DLs  or other  federal ID  will be  required at                                                                    
TSA  security check  points and  no  additional TSA  waivers                                                                    
would be granted.                                                                                                               
2:22:54 PM                                                                                                                    
Commissioner  Fisher turned  to slide  9 titled  "REAL ID  -                                                                    
Accessing Military Bases." The  slide listed the individuals                                                                    
who would be impacted by  limiting access to military bases.                                                                    
The  list  included  state employees,  school  districts  in                                                                    
Anchorage and  Fairbanks, civilians, individuals  working on                                                                    
the base  and visitors. He cited  upcoming construction work                                                                    
planned  on bases  and  noted concern  about  the impact  on                                                                    
construction workers.                                                                                                           
Commissioner  Fisher   moved  to   the  conclusion   of  the                                                                    
presentation with  a list  of supporters of  HB 74  on slide                                                                    
10. The list  included workers and individuals  who would be                                                                    
impacted by  the limitations or  restrictions that  would be                                                                    
applied in  the absence  of a pathway  to REAL  ID compliant                                                                    
licenses.  He  reiterated  his earlier  testimony  that  the                                                                    
legislation had  been structured to give  Alaskans a choice.                                                                    
He detailed  that no Alaskan  was required to obtain  a REAL                                                                    
ID compliant  license. The organizations listed  on slide 10                                                                    
believed their  members had a  particular interest  and need                                                                    
to receive a compliant license.                                                                                                 
Representative   Wilson   asked    for   verification   that                                                                    
individuals  who  chose to  not  receive  REAL ID  compliant                                                                    
licenses could  obtain identification by providing  the same                                                                    
documents  as  required  under   the  current  process.  She                                                                    
surmised that  the only  thing that would  be saved  was the                                                                    
application and  "as long  as we  have an  alternative plan,                                                                    
they're going to write it off as being in compliance."                                                                          
Commissioner  Fisher replied  that individuals  with a  non-                                                                    
compliant license  would be required to  have an alternative                                                                    
form of identification when entering a federal facility.                                                                        
Representative  Kawasaki returned  to  the  topic of  social                                                                    
security numbers. He  wondered why the state  used a portion                                                                    
of  individuals'  social  security  numbers if  it  was  not                                                                    
required to do  so by the federal government  under the REAL                                                                    
ID Act.                                                                                                                         
Commissioner  Fisher   answered  that  the   department  was                                                                    
required to validate  certain information, including whether                                                                    
a person possessed  a license in another  state. Federal law                                                                    
did not  require, but  allowed the state  to use  the social                                                                    
security number for this purpose.  The system established by                                                                    
AAMVA  was viewed  as an  efficient  and minimally  invasive                                                                    
method  for doing  so. The  state  was trying  to share  the                                                                    
minimal amount  of information that  allowed it  to validate                                                                    
that an individual did not  have a license in another state.                                                                    
Without the system,  the department would have  to reach out                                                                    
to 50 states to validate that  they did not have a license -                                                                    
the method would be quite cumbersome.                                                                                           
Representative  Kawasaki  referenced  Commissioner  Fisher's                                                                    
earlier statement  that use  of SSNs  was a  requirement. He                                                                    
asked if  it was a federal,  state, or a requirement  of the                                                                    
one organization the state worked with.                                                                                         
2:28:00 PM                                                                                                                    
Commissioner Fisher answered that the  sharing of SSNs was a                                                                    
requirement of  the system  implemented by  the organization                                                                    
to validate  that an  individual did not  have a  license in                                                                    
another state. He  relayed that the state  collected SSNs at                                                                    
present and was also obligated  collect them as part of REAL                                                                    
ID. He clarified  that the state was not  obligated to share                                                                    
the information  with anyone else,  but it was  obligated to                                                                    
collect the information.                                                                                                        
Representative  Kawasaki surmised  that  the  state was  not                                                                    
required by law  to share SSNs, but it was  a requirement of                                                                    
an organization the state partnered with.                                                                                       
Commissioner Fisher  responded that  the state  was required                                                                    
(by  current  state  law  and  under the  REAL  ID  Act)  to                                                                    
validate that an individual did  not have a driver's license                                                                    
in  another state.  The SSN  was the  tool that  allowed the                                                                    
state to do  so. Thus far, a better  alternative process had                                                                    
not been  developed. He continued  that AAMVA had  created a                                                                    
"pointer" system  that only used  a subset of the  SSN (five                                                                    
digits). Without  utilizing the  SSN it would  be impossible                                                                    
to  confirm a  person  did  not have  a  license in  another                                                                    
Co-Chair Seaton asked  if all REAL ID  compliant cards would                                                                    
have a chip.                                                                                                                    
Commissioner Fisher  replied in the negative.  Alaska's REAL                                                                    
ID compliant  licenses would  not have  a chip.  He detailed                                                                    
that the presentation's  reference to a license  with a chip                                                                    
was a different license issued  in some states for different                                                                    
purposes. He clarified  that Alaska did not  intend to issue                                                                    
a license containing a chip.                                                                                                    
2:31:17 PM                                                                                                                    
Representative Grenn asked if there  was a difference in the                                                                    
information  an individual  would share  with the  DMV under                                                                    
the current system versus under a REAL ID compliant system.                                                                     
Commissioner  Fisher   answered  that   if  the   state  was                                                                    
authorized  to  issue  REAL ID  compliant  licenses  and  an                                                                    
individual wanted  a compliant license, the  first time they                                                                    
applied for  a compliant license  they would be  required to                                                                    
bring  a primary  document. He  referred to  an appendix  on                                                                    
slide  12 of  the  presentation, which  included  a list  of                                                                    
primary  documents  (i.e.  birth certificate,  passport,  or                                                                    
other  immigration  information)   and  secondary  documents                                                                    
(that can be used for  establishing residency in Alaska). He                                                                    
stated  the process  was essentially  what  people had  been                                                                    
doing previously.                                                                                                               
Representative  Grenn shared  that he  had recently  been to                                                                    
the DMV  to renew his license.  He had received a  black and                                                                    
white  copy  and was  told  he  would receive  his  official                                                                    
license in  the mail within 30  to 60 days. He  asked if the                                                                    
process  would  be  the  same   when  obtaining  a  REAL  ID                                                                    
compliant license.  He assumed  the license would  be mailed                                                                    
from out of state.                                                                                                              
Commissioner Fisher answered in the affirmative.                                                                                
Representative  Grenn  asked  if the  information  currently                                                                    
provided by  license applicants  would be  sent to  the same                                                                    
company  for   issuance  of  REAL  IDs.   Alternatively,  he                                                                    
wondered if the information would be sent to a new company.                                                                     
Commissioner Fisher  replied that  the information  would be                                                                    
sent  to  the same  company  as  was  used at  present.  The                                                                    
company kept the information for  30 days and then destroyed                                                                    
2:33:42 PM                                                                                                                    
Representative Pruitt  wondered if an individual  would have                                                                    
to pay again in the event  of a lost license (either regular                                                                    
or REAL ID compliant).                                                                                                          
Commissioner Fisher believed the  state had a duplicate fee,                                                                    
but he did not know the precise amount.                                                                                         
Representative  Pruitt stated  that at  one point  the state                                                                    
did not  have a duplicate fee  and he had spoken  with a DMV                                                                    
employee who  believed the decision was  unwise. He detailed                                                                    
that the  employee was  producing replacement  licenses four                                                                    
or five  times for the same  people for no cost.  He hoped a                                                                    
duplicate  fee had  been implemented.  Separately, he  spoke                                                                    
about the timeframe and the  employee need. He referred to a                                                                    
chart in the  presentation that indicated the  process was a                                                                    
bit more  extensive. He  asked how much  more time  it would                                                                    
take for  a person  to obtain a  REAL ID  compliant license.                                                                    
Additionally,   he  wondered   how  it   would  impact   the                                                                    
department's personnel  needs. He spoke to  the challenge of                                                                    
getting   a  license   in  a   timely   manner  in   regular                                                                    
Commissioner Fisher  answered that the average  wait time of                                                                    
getting a  license had  been reduced from  45 minutes  to 10                                                                    
minutes  over  the past  18  months.  He detailed  that  the                                                                    
decrease  had been  achieved  without additional  personnel.                                                                    
The   DMV  had   used  process   reengineering  -   using  a                                                                    
streamlining  process  and  improving queue  management.  He                                                                    
explained that when queues became  long the offices utilized                                                                    
staff  typically  performing  other functions.  He  did  not                                                                    
claim that  every individual was  served within  10 minutes,                                                                    
but  the  time  had  been  dramatically  reduced.  He  often                                                                    
received  positive emails  thanking him  for the  service an                                                                    
individual received at the DMV.  He was pleased and believed                                                                    
it was  a great  success story.  The department  believed it                                                                    
could implement changes the bill  would make (shown on slide                                                                    
7) without a  dramatic increase in time.  The department did                                                                    
not  believe  the  additional steps  would  be  particularly                                                                    
burdensome.  He  stated  that   the  higher  the  number  of                                                                    
different  processes and  different  licenses  and IDs  that                                                                    
followed  different steps,  the less  efficient the  process                                                                    
would become. He agreed that  efficiency should probably not                                                                    
trump  privacy.  The  department   was  trying  to  be  both                                                                    
efficient and  respectful of people's privacy.  The goal was                                                                    
to  develop   a  system  and   approach  that   would  allow                                                                    
exceptional customer service.                                                                                                   
2:38:07 PM                                                                                                                    
Representative  Pruitt  provided   a  hypothetical  scenario                                                                    
about an individual without a local  DMV who may need to fly                                                                    
to  the nearest  hub community  to access  a DMV  office. He                                                                    
surmised that  after 2020 the  individual would not  be able                                                                    
to use an Alaska license,  but it appeared individuals would                                                                    
have to go to  a DMV in person. He noted  it was a challenge                                                                    
for rural residents to obtain a  REAL ID. He asked what kind                                                                    
of burden  the law would  place on the individual  trying to                                                                    
fly to  Seattle or  another location  outside of  Alaska. He                                                                    
asked how to deal with the potential challenge.                                                                                 
Commissioner Fisher  recommended passing the  legislation to                                                                    
give  individuals an  alternative  and the  needed time.  He                                                                    
shared  that  if  the  legislation  passed,  the  department                                                                    
wanted  to  begin communicating  with  people  to help  them                                                                    
understand the need to get  their license renewed as REAL ID                                                                    
compliant. If  the legislation did  not pass  the individual                                                                    
would need a passport or  some other form of identification.                                                                    
He  agreed that  it would  be a  challenge for  individuals,                                                                    
which  was part  of  the  reason he  was  motivated to  give                                                                    
individuals  an option  to  choose a  REAL  ID compliant  or                                                                    
basic license  and to provide  as much time as  possible for                                                                    
individuals to  do so.  As an aside,  he relayed  that there                                                                    
was now a method to set up  an appointment at the DMV on the                                                                    
division's website. He encouraged  committee members to take                                                                    
advantage of the option.                                                                                                        
Representative  Pruitt remarked  that  at  present a  person                                                                    
looking to obtain  a passport could mail  information in for                                                                    
renewal. He stated  that the passage of  the legislation was                                                                    
different from whether  the individual had access  to a DMV.                                                                    
He stated  that no matter  what, REAL ID  would disadvantage                                                                    
individuals in  some Alaska  communities by  hindering their                                                                    
ability to  travel within  the U.S.  He surmised  the change                                                                    
would  be a  burden for  individuals aiming  to move  freely                                                                    
around  the  country.  He  asked for  the  accuracy  of  his                                                                    
Commissioner Fisher  replied that  the burden that  would be                                                                    
imposed was the  requirement to obtain a new  license in the                                                                    
next couple of years.                                                                                                           
2:41:49 PM                                                                                                                    
Co-Chair Seaton  asked for verification that  there would be                                                                    
a  burden to  obtain a  travel  document, whether  it was  a                                                                    
passport or  REAL ID compliant  license, in a  timeframe not                                                                    
controlled by the state, other  than through a waiver if the                                                                    
bill was passed.                                                                                                                
Commissioner Fisher responded in the affirmative.                                                                               
Representative  Pruitt  mentioned  that  the  committee  had                                                                    
recently  considered  legislation   related  to  off-highway                                                                    
licenses and had  discussed the lack of access to  a DMV. He                                                                    
stated  that related  to  the  current legislation,  certain                                                                    
individuals  had lack  of access  to a  DMV. He  believed it                                                                    
would be more difficult for  some Alaskans to travel if they                                                                    
had  to go  through one  of  Alaska's 17  airports with  TSA                                                                    
screening. He thought it would be  a burden. He did not know                                                                    
if  there  was legislative  solution  to  solve the  problem                                                                    
because the individuals had to go to an office in person.                                                                       
2:43:19 PM                                                                                                                    
Vice-Chair  Gara was  trying to  find a  way to  support the                                                                    
legislation  given  travel  problems that  would  exist  for                                                                    
people  in  the  future.  He  thought  the  largest  privacy                                                                    
concern had nothing  to do with REAL ID, but  was the use of                                                                    
SSNs for  a service used  by the department. He  believed it                                                                    
seemed  dangerous.   He  referenced   Commissioner  Fisher's                                                                    
earlier  testimony  that  the   department  was  looking  at                                                                    
options. He  wondered about the likelihood  a solution would                                                                    
be  found. He  thought  it constituted  the biggest  privacy                                                                    
Commissioner  Fisher explained  that the  administration was                                                                    
trying to reduce  the number of digits it  would be required                                                                    
to  share.  He  did  not  intend  to  communicate  that  the                                                                    
department believed it could eliminate  the use of a portion                                                                    
of SSNs  altogether. He believed  that with or  without REAL                                                                    
ID, the SSN  was the mechanism allowing the  state to ensure                                                                    
an individual only  had a single driver's  license. He noted                                                                    
that  current state  law mandated  that an  individual could                                                                    
only have one driver's license  - the restriction existed in                                                                    
all  50 states.  His ambition  was to  reduce the  number of                                                                    
digits  used,   but  not  to   eliminate  reliance   on  the                                                                    
2:45:40 PM                                                                                                                    
Vice-Chair  Gara   asked  the   commissioner  to   keep  the                                                                    
committee apprised  of any progress  made going  forward. He                                                                    
shared that he was not  personally informed about the danger                                                                    
of  having two  driver's licenses.  He surmised  it did  not                                                                    
seem  to be  among  the  biggest dangers  in  the world.  He                                                                    
understood the department  had laws it needed  to follow. He                                                                    
asked if  the commissioner  had looked  at options  to avoid                                                                    
charging a  fee of $20  per license. He questioned  the idea                                                                    
of charging individuals $20 more  to comply with the law. He                                                                    
guessed it was slightly offset  by the fact that the license                                                                    
would be good for eight  years rather than five. He wondered                                                                    
if there were small fees that  could be spread around at DMV                                                                    
or find  some fee  in another department  that would  not be                                                                    
burdensome  to   help  pay  for   the  cost.   He  suggested                                                                    
potentially using  a portion of  the motor fuel tax  for the                                                                    
purpose. The increase caused him some concern.                                                                                  
Commissioner Fisher  reported that the  legislation proposed                                                                    
by  the   governor  included  a   $5  fee   increase,  which                                                                    
represented  the  minimal  amount  necessary  to  cover  the                                                                    
incremental  costs with  each  additional license.  However,                                                                    
some legislators were concerned about  using GF to cover the                                                                    
bill's $1.5  million fiscal note.  The increased fee  of $20                                                                    
in the current bill version  would help to quickly repay the                                                                    
$1.5 million. He  indicated that the fee was  a policy call.                                                                    
He  explained  that if  the  legislature  did not  want  the                                                                    
department to charge  a fee, the department  could cover the                                                                    
cost in  other places. He  detailed that the DMV  made money                                                                    
and  returned money  to the  state's GF;  if a  fee was  not                                                                    
charged, the  DMV would return a  bit less to the  state GF.                                                                    
He  stated that  Alaska charged  one of  the lowest  license                                                                    
fees in  the nation; the  base license  fee of $20  was very                                                                    
inexpensive  compared to  many jurisdictions.  He reiterated                                                                    
that it was a policy decision for the legislature.                                                                              
Representative Tilton noted that  the license duration would                                                                    
increase from five years to  eight years. She asked what the                                                                    
reasoning was for changing the period.                                                                                          
Commissioner Fisher  replied that historically  licenses had                                                                    
been  good for  a  period of  five years.  The  REAL ID  Act                                                                    
allowed a license  to be issued for eight years.  Due to the                                                                    
proposed fee increase  the administration suggested allowing                                                                    
a license  to be extended  to the maximum  eight-year period                                                                    
allowed by the REAL ID Act.  He noted that the time could be                                                                    
reduced  by the  legislature  if desired.  The  REAL ID  Act                                                                    
allowed the  state to  issue one  renewal online,  meaning a                                                                    
person could receive the license  for a maximum period of 16                                                                    
years before  being required  to return to  the DMV  to have                                                                    
another picture taken.                                                                                                          
Representative  Tilton  asked   for  verification  that  the                                                                    
standard license had historically been  good for a period of                                                                    
five   years.   Commissioner   Fisher   responded   in   the                                                                    
Representative Kawasaki  referred to the increase  from five                                                                    
to eight  years for  license renewal.  He reasoned  that the                                                                    
increase meant that individuals would  have to visit the DMV                                                                    
fewer  times and  would  result in  a  decrease in  revenue.                                                                    
Separately, he referenced the fiscal  note and addressed the                                                                    
cost  breakdowns to  get  to the  $1.5  million request.  He                                                                    
observed the note included startup  fees. He wondered if any                                                                    
additional fee would  be ongoing in the future.  He asked if                                                                    
the state currently paid to be part of AAMVA.                                                                                   
Commissioner Fisher responded that  fees shown in the fiscal                                                                    
note  were   primarily  startup  fees.  There   was  a  cost                                                                    
associated  with  each  license  of  $5.  There  was  not  a                                                                    
recurring  component of  the $1.5  million  included in  the                                                                    
fiscal note. The  state paid to participate  in AAMVA, which                                                                    
was a nonprofit controlled by  the states. He detailed there                                                                    
was a board  of directors that Alaska's  DMV director [Marla                                                                    
Thompson] would be  joining soon. He did not  know the AAMVA                                                                    
membership fee, but he would  provide the information to the                                                                    
2:52:23 PM                                                                                                                    
Representative Kawasaki  asked if the ongoing  fees required                                                                    
for the  REAL ID  compliant database  were reflected  in the                                                                    
fiscal note.                                                                                                                    
Commissioner    Fisher   asked    for   verification    that                                                                    
Representative Kawasaki was  referring to the state-to-state                                                                    
database  the   department  used  to  validate   whether  an                                                                    
individual had a license in a different state.                                                                                  
Representative Kawasaki replied in the affirmative.                                                                             
Commissioner  Fisher responded  that the  department already                                                                    
paid that cost  at present; therefore, it  was not reflected                                                                    
in the fiscal  note. He believed it was  more efficient than                                                                    
any alternative mechanism that could be developed.                                                                              
Representative  Kawasaki   asked  if   the  fees   had  ever                                                                    
increased.  He wondered  if  it was  a  situation where  the                                                                    
state bought  a license  fee at the  beginning and  was then                                                                    
stuck using it again and  again, and the fees could increase                                                                    
and the state could not ever get out of the system.                                                                             
Commissioner Fisher was sure the  fees had increased, but he                                                                    
would have to follow up  with detail. He detailed that AAMVA                                                                    
had been around since 1933;  therefore, he was confident the                                                                    
fees had  changed and grown  over time. He pointed  out that                                                                    
the organization was  a nonprofit and was  not charging fees                                                                    
based on  a desire  to turn a  profit; the  organization was                                                                    
managed by states  for states and was managed at  a level to                                                                    
cover its costs.                                                                                                                
Representative   Kawasaki   stated  that   AAMVA   currently                                                                    
received basic  customer data  including names,  five digits                                                                    
of a social security number,  and birthdate. He asked if the                                                                    
organization had  required more  or less information  in the                                                                    
Commissioner Fisher  deferred to  his colleague  for detail.                                                                    
He noted that more information  was required, but he did not                                                                    
have specifics.                                                                                                                 
MARLA  THOMPSON,  DIRECTOR,   DIVISION  OF  MOTOR  VEHICLES,                                                                    
DEPARTMENT OF ADMINISTRATION  (via teleconference), answered                                                                    
that  AAMVA was  a backbone  for the  DMV and  was used  for                                                                    
commercial  driver's licenses  (CDLs)  and problem  drivers.                                                                    
She  explained that  if  a person  was  coming from  another                                                                    
state, there was a data dip  that would allow the DMV to see                                                                    
whether a person had a DUI  or had lost their license due to                                                                    
points. She relayed that the  process had been used for many                                                                    
years.  Additionally,   there  was   a  data  dip   for  CDL                                                                    
applications -  law required  a person  could only  have one                                                                    
CDL. The  state-to-state was more  of an evolution -  it was                                                                    
something DMV  had been doing  with other pieces of  data on                                                                    
things it was required to do.                                                                                                   
2:56:22 PM                                                                                                                    
Vice-Chair Gara referred  to the fiscal note  and the costs.                                                                    
He observed that  the costs would start out  at $528,000 and                                                                    
would decrease  over the  years. He  remarked that  the $1.5                                                                    
million in  revenue the  state would  receive, which  may be                                                                    
due to  the increased license  fee, was triple  the starting                                                                    
costs. He remarked that the  revenue would decline. He asked                                                                    
if  a former  legislative committee's  proposal to  increase                                                                    
the cost of  the license the reason the  bill would generate                                                                    
more revenue than it cost.                                                                                                      
Commissioner Fisher  replied in the affirmative.  The reason                                                                    
the revenue was initially high  and projected to decline was                                                                    
due  to the  expectation  that  there would  be  a surge  of                                                                    
individuals  going to  get a  license, which  would decline.                                                                    
The  department believed  that at  $20, the  costs recovered                                                                    
would be  above and beyond  the amount necessary to  pay for                                                                    
the legislation cost.                                                                                                           
Vice-Chair Gara agreed that revenue  needed to be increased,                                                                    
but if  the legislature implemented numerous  little fees it                                                                    
would  irritate  people.  He   recalled  that  under  former                                                                    
Governor  Frank  Murkowski's   tenure  there  were  numerous                                                                    
little  fees implemented.  He asked  what  the amount  would                                                                    
need to be to make the  bill cost neutral (where the license                                                                    
fee would cover the cost of the legislation).                                                                                   
Commissioner Fisher replied  that a $10 fee  would cover the                                                                    
$5  associated with  the incremental  cost for  each license                                                                    
and  $5 would  be collected.  The department  estimated that                                                                    
over the course  of five years the fee would  repay the $1.5                                                                    
million. He  noted that after  that time, the  additional $5                                                                    
fee would  be incremental. He  believed a payback  period of                                                                    
five years seemed to be a reasonable approach.                                                                                  
2:58:51 PM                                                                                                                    
Representative  Wilson   asked  if   the  picture   used  on                                                                    
passports  and  was  the same  type  of  facial  recognition                                                                    
software used for the REAL ID Act.                                                                                              
Commissioner Fisher answered that  when a person applied for                                                                    
a  REAL  ID  identification  a  photo  would  be  taken  and                                                                    
compared  with other  photos. If  there was  a match,  other                                                                    
photos with certain similarities  would be presented and the                                                                    
customer service representative would  inspect the photos to                                                                    
detect any potential fraud. The  goal was to ensure a person                                                                    
had  not previously  brought in  a photo  under a  different                                                                    
name.  He relayed  that  the department  did  not share  the                                                                    
photos or any information  from the photo facial recognition                                                                    
program; the tool  was for internal use to  detect fraud. He                                                                    
did not have information about the passport photo system.                                                                       
Representative  Wilson remarked  it was  very important  for                                                                    
her  district  to  know  if  the  two  were  the  same.  She                                                                    
countered  that the  information  was shared  with DPS.  She                                                                    
surmised  the federal  government was  involved in  both and                                                                    
that it would  not want an individual to  have two passports                                                                    
either.  She would  try to  get more  information about  the                                                                    
Commissioner Fisher  clarified that  the department  did not                                                                    
share the  information outside the  State of Alaska.  He did                                                                    
not   intend  to   be  misleading   and  relayed   that  the                                                                    
information was  shared with DPS,  the Office  of Children's                                                                    
Services,  and the  Permanent  Fund  Dividend Division.  The                                                                    
information was shared across the  state to ensure there was                                                                    
not  fraudulent   behavior  in  the  State   of  Alaska.  He                                                                    
discussed  that   passports  were  issued  by   the  federal                                                                    
government  and  he  was  certain there  were  a  series  of                                                                    
mechanisms  to   ensure  that  passports  were   secure  and                                                                    
validated. The state did not share  any of its data with the                                                                    
federal government.                                                                                                             
3:02:21 PM                                                                                                                    
Co-Chair  Seaton noted  that DPS  had raised  a concern  and                                                                    
asked if  DOA had any  objection to holding the  database in                                                                    
encrypted form  for a  longer period than  as listed  in the                                                                    
Commissioner Fisher asked for clarification.                                                                                    
Co-Chair Seaton clarified he was  asking about the DMV under                                                                    
Commissioner Fisher shared that  DOA currently encrypted all                                                                    
the data and would continue to  do so. The department had no                                                                    
objection  to keeping  the  data longer  if  desired by  the                                                                    
Co-Chair  Seaton  referred  to some  discussion  outside  of                                                                    
committee related  to a passport  card and whether  it could                                                                    
be used. He noted the cost  of issuance was $55. He referred                                                                    
to a  U.S. Passports and International  Travel passport card                                                                    
information  sheet provided  by his  office (copy  on file).                                                                    
The card could be used for  land or sea crossing into Canada                                                                    
and  Mexico. He  explained  that even  though  the card  was                                                                    
issued  by the  federal government  at  the same  time as  a                                                                    
passport, it could  not be used for  air transportation into                                                                    
Canada, Mexico, or other foreign countries.                                                                                     
3:04:27 PM                                                                                                                    
Representative  Wilson   observed  that  the  REAL   ID  Act                                                                    
identification could not be used  for foreign travel either.                                                                    
She stated that  a passport would still be  required for all                                                                    
the  travel mentioned  by Co-Chair  Seaton.  She stated  she                                                                    
could not go to Europe with only a REAL ID card.                                                                                
Co-Chair Seaton believed  an individual could use  a REAL ID                                                                    
driver's license to travel to  Mexico and Canada by air, but                                                                    
a passport card would not be sufficient.                                                                                        
Ms. Ridle believed  a passport would be needed  to travel to                                                                    
Canada and Mexico.                                                                                                              
Co-Chair Seaton  remarked that the committee  would get some                                                                    
verification  on  the  issue.  He asked  if  Mr.  Bob  Doehl                                                                    
[Colonel  Robert Doehl,  Deputy Commissioner,  Department of                                                                    
Military and Veterans Affairs] was online to testify.                                                                           
Mr. Duffy  answered there was  no testimony from  Mr. Doehl.                                                                    
He  provided testimony  for the  Department of  Military and                                                                    
Veterans  Affairs (DMVA).  He emphasized  the importance  of                                                                    
understanding that federal installations  such as Joint Base                                                                    
Elmendorf-Richardson (JBER)  were complying  with provisions                                                                    
of the  REAL ID Act  at present. Visitors wishing  to obtain                                                                    
unescorted  access and  did  not  have identification  cards                                                                    
compliant  with  the  REAL  ID  Act  were  denied  entry  or                                                                    
required to escorted  with a Department of  Defense (DOD) ID                                                                    
card holder while on the  installation. He continued that it                                                                    
included  individuals  with  driver's licenses  from  Maine,                                                                    
Missouri,  and  Montana  and individuals  with  non-enhanced                                                                    
licenses from  Minnesota. He noted  the committee  had heard                                                                    
about changes  underway in the  State of  Washington earlier                                                                    
in the  meeting. He elaborated  that if there was  no change                                                                    
in  statute by  Alaska's extension  expiration date  of July                                                                    
[June]  6,  2017,  Alaska   driver's  licenses  and  similar                                                                    
identification  cards from  six additional  states (assuming                                                                    
no change from  them as well) would be added  to the list of                                                                    
identification cards  designated as insufficient,  much like                                                                    
Maine and  Montana were  added at the  end of  January 2017.                                                                    
The installations  had no waiver authority  and there should                                                                    
be no expectation they would pursue any.                                                                                        
Mr.  Duffy  referred  to his  earlier  testimony  about  the                                                                    
challenge  associated  with  individuals wishing  to  obtain                                                                    
unescorted access  to the  installations in  Alaska. Leaders                                                                    
at  JBER  estimated  approximately  14,000  contractors  and                                                                    
local  service providers,  Fort Wainwright  had about  5,000                                                                    
per month,  and Eielson Air  Force Base had about  2,600 per                                                                    
month.  In the  case  of JBER  there  were approximately  50                                                                    
different  mission   partners  on  the   installation  (some                                                                    
federal and  some state) with  others from either  public or                                                                    
private organizations. Currently,  individuals without other                                                                    
DOD credentials  could be issued  (from the base)  a defense                                                                    
biometrics  identification  system  (DBIDS) card  to  attain                                                                    
unescorted access.  Upon that card's normal  expiration date                                                                    
and absent  a change  in statute,  individuals would  need a                                                                    
different  form of  REAL ID  compliant identification  other                                                                    
than  their current  Alaska driver's  license  to renew  the                                                                    
DBIDS card. In  coordination with DOA and the  Office of the                                                                    
Governor,  the  previous  month the  DMVA  commissioner  had                                                                    
published  instructions  to   teammates  working  on  Alaska                                                                    
installations  advising them  of  the  potential impact  and                                                                    
potential need for action to  ensure they could get to work.                                                                    
However,  it was  not  only state  DMVA  employees who  were                                                                    
likely to be  affected - he anticipated  the committee would                                                                    
hear testimony  from labor  providers, the  Anchorage School                                                                    
District, and  others. He relayed that  the recently arrived                                                                    
Alaska  Military   Youth  Academy  (AMYA)  class   would  be                                                                    
impacted as well.                                                                                                               
3:09:26 PM                                                                                                                    
Mr. Duffy  continued that with  almost half of  the students                                                                    
being  18 years  of age  or older  or projected  to turn  18                                                                    
while  enrolled,  they would  also  need  REAL ID  compliant                                                                    
forms  of  identification  to  obtain  the  DBIDS  card  for                                                                    
continued  base  access.  He noted  there  were  times  when                                                                    
students   were   transported   for  personal   or   medical                                                                    
appointments   by  family.   Additionally,  the   department                                                                    
foresaw  a  potential  adverse   action  for  AMYA  sponsors                                                                    
needing to visit the campus on base.                                                                                            
Representative Kawasaki stated  when he had been  a youth he                                                                    
had  a friend  with a  parent in  the military.  He recalled                                                                    
that  to access  base he  had to  obtain a  tag for  his car                                                                    
window  -   his  friend's  military   issued  ID   had  been                                                                    
sufficient  to get  on the  base. He  stated that  somewhere                                                                    
along the line  it became more frequent  for any individuals                                                                    
to  access a  base.  He asked  about  generalized access  to                                                                    
Mr. Duffy believed Representative  Kawasaki was referring to                                                                    
what was  currently known as  the Trusted  Traveler Program.                                                                    
He used his personal experience  as an example. He explained                                                                    
that he was retired from DOD  and had a retired DOD ID card.                                                                    
Under the  Trusted Traveler Program,  he could escort  up to                                                                    
nine  people  with  some  form  of  valid  ID  (it  did  not                                                                    
necessarily  have  to be  REAL  ID  compliant) on  the  JBER                                                                    
installation.  As  an escort,  he  had  to remain  with  the                                                                    
individuals during  their time  on the installation  and was                                                                    
required to  escort them off  the base. He believed  that to                                                                    
anticipate  the installation  would  be able  to escort  the                                                                    
14,000  service  providers  on  a  routine  basis,  was  not                                                                    
feasible.  He referenced  a  previous  Joint Armed  Services                                                                    
Committee hearing  where the  challenge had  been discussed.                                                                    
He  explained that  individuals  on the  base  had day  jobs                                                                    
rather than providing recurring escort.                                                                                         
Representative  Kawasaki stated  that  legislators who  were                                                                    
members  of  the  Military and  Veterans  Affairs  Committee                                                                    
(maybe living  near a  base) received  identification cards.                                                                    
He asked if the cards were REAL ID compliant.                                                                                   
Mr. Duffy  answered that the cards  did not have to  be REAL                                                                    
ID  compliant. To  receive  the card,  it  was necessary  to                                                                    
present  a   form  of  identification   that  was   REAL  ID                                                                    
compliant. For example,  the DBIDS cards were  issued by the                                                                    
installation - receiving  a card required showing  a REAL ID                                                                    
Act compliant form of identification.                                                                                           
3:13:05 PM                                                                                                                    
Representative Kawasaki  surmised a person would  still have                                                                    
to have  a REAL  ID compliant ID  before obtaining  a USARAK                                                                    
[U.S. Army Alaska] installation card.                                                                                           
Mr. Duffy  answered in the  affirmative. For example,  if an                                                                    
Anchorage School  District employee was issued  a DBIDS card                                                                    
in  September  of 2016,  they  may  have used  their  Alaska                                                                    
driver's license  in its  current form  to obtain  the card.                                                                    
Upon  expiration  in  2017,   the  current  Alaska  driver's                                                                    
license would be insufficient to renew the card.                                                                                
TARA  RICH,  LEGAL  AND POLICY  DIRECTOR,  ACLU  OF  ALASKA,                                                                    
ANCHORAGE (via teleconference),  spoke to the organization's                                                                    
prior  opposition   to  REAL  ID.   She  relayed   that  the                                                                    
organization had  supported the legislature's  resistance to                                                                    
REAL ID in 2008. However,  the ACLU of Alaska recognized the                                                                    
political  reality the  legislature was  currently facing  -                                                                    
having  to choose  between two  "terrible"  choices that  it                                                                    
seemed no one  asked for. She addressed  the current version                                                                    
of  HB  74  that  had  come from  the  House  State  Affairs                                                                    
Committee. She relayed the current  version was a product of                                                                    
working earnestly and in good  faith with DOA to ensure that                                                                    
if Alaska became compliant through  the legislation, that it                                                                    
contained the  least amount of privacy  invasive policies as                                                                    
possible. At  the outset, the  organization had  requested a                                                                    
number  of provisions  to be  included  in the  legislation,                                                                    
including that  the minimum number of  documents required by                                                                    
REAL ID  would be fixed (so  that DMV would require  no more                                                                    
than  the  minimum),  the timeframe  for  retention  of  the                                                                    
documents would be fixed (Alaska  DMV would retain documents                                                                    
for  no more  than the  minimum timeframe  required by  REAL                                                                    
ID), and that there would  be no bulk sharing of photographs                                                                    
or other documents.  She believed it related  directly to an                                                                    
earlier   question   by   Vice-Chair  Gara   about   sharing                                                                    
photographs  between DMV  and DPS.  As  the legislation  was                                                                    
currently   drafted,  the   sharing  would   be  prohibited.                                                                    
Additionally,  the   organization  had  requested   that  no                                                                    
documents  that  were  not  required by  REAL  ID  would  be                                                                    
obtained by DMV.  Lastly, although REAL ID  would require an                                                                    
individual's picture to  be retained if they  did not obtain                                                                    
a driver's license or identification  card for at least five                                                                    
years,  the  organization  had  requested  that  a  person's                                                                    
photograph  would  not  be  retained by  DMV  if  they  were                                                                    
obtaining  a non-compliant  card. The  organization did  not                                                                    
see any purpose  for maintaining the photograph  in the case                                                                    
of  obtaining non-compliant  cards. Additionally,  it was  a                                                                    
privacy concern.                                                                                                                
Ms. Rich relayed that the  organization had not been able to                                                                    
get everything it wanted -  the issue of SSNs being provided                                                                    
to the interstate  pointer system had been a  focal point in                                                                    
the [House]  State Affairs  Committee. The  organization had                                                                    
concluded that if the law were  to require that SSNs did not                                                                    
get sent to the interstate  pointer system, Alaska would not                                                                    
be deemed compliant.  She stated that if  compliance was the                                                                    
goal  of  the  legislation,  it would  not  be  feasible  to                                                                    
include the provision  in HB 74. She  referenced other items                                                                    
the organization  had requested  such as  paper applications                                                                    
and relayed  that the existing  DMV process was to  scan the                                                                    
documents;  therefore, it  had  not been  realistic for  the                                                                    
ACLU Alaska to get everything  it wanted. She focused on two                                                                    
areas that were currently enshrined in the bill.                                                                                
3:17:43 PM                                                                                                                    
Ms. Rich spoke to the  first item. She explained that people                                                                    
requesting a driver's license or  identification card at DMV                                                                    
were  required to  present certain  forms of  primary source                                                                    
identification   (i.e.   a  passport,   birth   certificate,                                                                    
marriage license, and other). She  detailed that if a person                                                                    
was not applying  for a REAL ID form  of identification, the                                                                    
ACLU  Alaska  emphatically  supported   the  idea  that  the                                                                    
documents did not get scanned  or copied in any way. Current                                                                    
regulations  only   required  individuals  to   furnish  the                                                                    
documents  and  did  not allow  [require]  for  scanning  or                                                                    
copying  and  retaining   the  documents.  The  organization                                                                    
believed  the topic  was critical  because the  entire basis                                                                    
for the  legislation appeared to be  establishing a two-tier                                                                    
structure that  allowed people to  opt into REAL ID  if they                                                                    
wanted to  forego the privacy  protections to trade  off for                                                                    
the convenience  of the ability to  fly domestically without                                                                    
worrying about  bringing a passport  or alternative  form of                                                                    
identification or regularly travel onto a military base.                                                                        
Ms.  Rich  stressed  that   for  individuals  valuing  their                                                                    
privacy,  it was  the last  remaining distinction  between a                                                                    
compliant card  and a non-compliant identification  card and                                                                    
driver's license.  She did not  believe it would  make sense                                                                    
to create  a two-tiered  structure when the  structures were                                                                    
essentially meaningless in terms  of privacy protections. It                                                                    
also seemed  it would be  unnecessary for the DMV  to retain                                                                    
the documents.  She referred to  testimony from DPS  that it                                                                    
did use  the documents  in certain  circumstances -  she did                                                                    
not know  whether the sharing  of documents between  DMV and                                                                    
DPS had been a long-term  practice. She assumed that as time                                                                    
went  by  the  retained  documents  became  stale  and  less                                                                    
relevant. She surmised there would  be a limited purpose for                                                                    
retaining   the  documents.   Lastly,   she  addressed   the                                                                    
retention of  facial images. She spoke  about the difference                                                                    
between  the time  facial images  were required  to be  kept                                                                    
under  REAL ID  and the  time in  which Alaska  retained the                                                                    
images. The  REAL ID  minimum was 10  years and  the current                                                                    
law required facial images to  be retained for 15 years. The                                                                    
ACLU  believed   the  use  of   facial  recognition   was  a                                                                    
significantly important piece of  data for an individual; to                                                                    
the extent  the images  could be purged  on a  regular basis                                                                    
increased an individual's privacy rights.                                                                                       
3:21:35 PM                                                                                                                    
Representative   Wilson   asked   for   a   restatement   of                                                                    
information related to facial images.                                                                                           
Ms. Rich complied.  She detailed that DPS  had advocated for                                                                    
keeping  facial images  as long  as possible  within reason.                                                                    
The minimum time required under  REAL ID was 10 years. Under                                                                    
the current  version of the  bill there was no  maximum time                                                                    
listed for  REAL ID cardholders.  For individuals  with non-                                                                    
compliant cards, the  time would be the term  of the license                                                                    
plus one year;  at that time the facial image  would have to                                                                    
be destroyed. The ACLU requested  affixing the time limit to                                                                    
the  minimum   in  REAL  ID,   consistent  with   the  other                                                                    
provisions included related to document retention.                                                                              
Representative  Wilson  asked   for  verification  that  the                                                                    
current bill version contained no  time limit, but that some                                                                    
other states had  a time limit of eight years  plus one. She                                                                    
stated  her  understanding  that  the  bill  would  need  to                                                                    
include a  time limit of  nine years or the  documents would                                                                    
be kept in the database indefinitely.                                                                                           
Ms. Rich  responded that  the eight years  plus one  was for                                                                    
the non-compliant  cards. For the  REAL ID  compliant cards,                                                                    
it would  have to be the  term of the license,  which was up                                                                    
to  eight years,  plus two  (10 years  minimum). She  agreed                                                                    
that the  bill currently contained no  maximum time. Current                                                                    
law included a retention period of 15 years.                                                                                    
Representative Wilson asked if  there were other states with                                                                    
an opt-in/opt-out program like Alaska was considering.                                                                          
Ms.  Rich replied  that there  were a  number of  two-tiered                                                                    
systems under development in other  states - particularly in                                                                    
states that had been REAL ID  holdouts for a number of years                                                                    
(states like Alaska that did  not initially intend to comply                                                                    
with REAL ID).                                                                                                                  
Representative Wilson asked Ms.  Rich to provide information                                                                    
comparing  Alaska   to  other  states.  She   asked  if  the                                                                    
committee had  a letter from the  government specifying that                                                                    
the  two-tiered   system  would   be  counted  as   REAL  ID                                                                    
compliant. She did  not want the federal  government to come                                                                    
back in the future telling  Alaska that all residents needed                                                                    
to comply with the REAL ID Act.                                                                                                 
Ms. Rich  answered that the  DMV may  be the best  entity to                                                                    
provide the  assurance to the  committee. Colleagues  in her                                                                    
office had  correspondence with  the Department  of Homeland                                                                    
Security and had  been told that the  federal government did                                                                    
not  regulate non-compliant  ID cards  and licenses  at all.                                                                    
The Department of Homeland Security  did not take a position                                                                    
on  what requirements  should  be  related to  non-compliant                                                                    
cards  as long  as the  state  had an  option for  compliant                                                                    
Vice-Chair  Gara was  struggling with  idea that  DPS needed                                                                    
the   information   that   may  be   destroyed   under   the                                                                    
legislation, to help solve cold  cases and help with finding                                                                    
missing persons.  He wondered the concerns  expressed by DPS                                                                    
should not be taken seriously.                                                                                                  
Ms.  Rich responded  that by  affixing  a maximum  retention                                                                    
period  for  facial  retention   would  be  taking  the  DPS                                                                    
concerns  seriously. She  believed that  largely the  images                                                                    
were used by DPS for  photographic lineups. She relayed that                                                                    
DPS  had been  using driver's  license photographs,  but the                                                                    
ACLU urged  the photographs to be  obtained through mugshots                                                                    
due  to  the  privacy  implications of  sharing  a  person's                                                                    
photograph in that  context. She had attempted  to reach out                                                                    
to DPS  on what  the documents were  used for.  For example,                                                                    
how  a  marriage  or  birth   certificate  was  used  during                                                                    
investigations  that the  department  would not  be able  to                                                                    
access through another means apart from DMV.                                                                                    
3:27:40 PM                                                                                                                    
Vice-Chair Gara  stated that he was  sympathetic to allowing                                                                    
the DMV  to transfer  information requested  by DPS  for the                                                                    
criminal  purposed identified  by the  department. He  asked                                                                    
what the problem would be  with ensuring the information was                                                                    
encrypted during the process. He  stated it would be pretend                                                                    
to  think there  was not  a significant  amount of  personal                                                                    
information inside myriad state databases at present.                                                                           
Ms.  Rich replied  it  was important  to  recognize that  in                                                                    
terms  of government  databases, DMV  databases were  one of                                                                    
the  most powerful  -  they contained  some  of the  highest                                                                    
amounts  and   types  of   personal  information   about  an                                                                    
individual.  For   example,  an  Internal   Revenue  Service                                                                    
database may  contain SSNs but  did not  necessarily contain                                                                    
an  address.   The  DMV  also  contain   facial  recognition                                                                    
photographs. She furthered that  if non-compliant cards used                                                                    
identity  documents  the  DMV  would  also  have  copies  of                                                                    
original documents (e.g.  passports and birth certificates),                                                                    
which were not found anywhere  else. She stated that copying                                                                    
personal documents was  made was akin to making a  copy of a                                                                    
person's house key.  She reasoned that a person  may trust a                                                                    
neighbor or sibling with their  house key, but the more that                                                                    
were made,  the more difficult  it became to trust  that the                                                                    
copies would  be maintained securely. She  explained that it                                                                    
became  critically important  to  safeguard the  information                                                                    
and to ensure copies were  not created for purposes that may                                                                    
not justify the privacy implications for individuals.                                                                           
Representative Guttenberg  understood that the  DMV database                                                                    
was  data-rich.   He  remarked  that  some   private  sector                                                                    
databases were very  data-rich. He asked how  secure the DMV                                                                    
was against  hacking or incidental leakage  and transmission                                                                    
to AAMVA. He  asked about the strength  of AAMVA's security.                                                                    
He asked  about parameters the organization  was required to                                                                    
Ms. Rich responded  that she was not an  authority on levels                                                                    
of encryption  or technical specifications of  the databases                                                                    
in  terms of  security. She  had  read in  a privacy  impact                                                                    
assessment on  the specific database  run by AAMVA  that the                                                                    
data  was  encrypted, but  she  did  not know  the  specific                                                                    
security  measures in  place to  ensure the  information was                                                                    
not  susceptible  to hacking.  Since  2012,  there had  been                                                                    
eight  separate  database   breeches  ranging  from  private                                                                    
hospital records to  state records. The breeches  could be a                                                                    
result of  hacking or a  result of leaving information  on a                                                                    
laptop  in  an unsecure  location.  She  believed DMV  could                                                                    
better  speak to  its systems.  She added  that Commissioner                                                                    
Fisher  had testified  the database  was encrypted,  but she                                                                    
did not have further detail.                                                                                                    
3:32:02 PM                                                                                                                    
Representative     Guttenberg     asked    about     AAMVA's                                                                    
responsibility to control and keep  the data provided by the                                                                    
state. He asked if the  organization sold or marketed any of                                                                    
the  information.   He  understood   it  was   a  tax-exempt                                                                    
nonprofit,  but   he  believed  it  did   not  preclude  the                                                                    
organization from marketing the information.                                                                                    
Ms. Rich  was not  aware of any  obligations AAMVA  owed the                                                                    
state for security of the  information. She believed DMV may                                                                    
be  able to  provide  the information  through its  contract                                                                    
with AAMVA.                                                                                                                     
Representative  Pruitt addressed  the  topic of  individuals                                                                    
living in rural areas and  their ability to travel. Separate                                                                    
from  the bill,  he  asked if  individuals  living in  rural                                                                    
areas  of Alaska  without access  to  a DMV  or location  to                                                                    
obtain a REAL  ID in an expediate manner  would have grounds                                                                    
to argue that REAL ID put them at a disadvantage.                                                                               
Ms.  Rich  believed  there  were  significant  hurdles  that                                                                    
placed  residents   in  rural   Alaska  at   a  disadvantage                                                                    
considering the tight  timeline and access to  DMVs in terms                                                                    
travel after the  REAL ID waiver expired. It  remained to be                                                                    
seen whether DMV could provide  an option to access the REAL                                                                    
ID without having to experience  disruptions in their travel                                                                    
Representative Pruitt  surmised if  the legislature  did not                                                                    
pass  the  bill   it  would  be  standing  in   the  way  of                                                                    
individuals  getting  access  because it  had  not  provided                                                                    
individuals   an  option   for   REAL  ID.   He  asked   for                                                                    
verification that  if the  bill was passed  it would  not be                                                                    
the legislature  standing in the  way and  individuals could                                                                    
look  at  the  federal  government  as  their  challenge  to                                                                    
access. He  reasoned that the  state could probably  work on                                                                    
some system for  accessing some sort of DMV  [in rural areas                                                                    
without a  DMV], but he  did not  know whether DMV  would be                                                                    
able to  come up with  a mechanism because  individuals were                                                                    
required  to provide  documents in  person. He  stated there                                                                    
was  not even  a Walgreens  option  as was  available for  a                                                                    
passport; it appeared  individuals were required to  go to a                                                                    
DMV.  He asked  if the  passage of  the bill  would give  an                                                                    
individual  in a  rural area  better ground  to argue  their                                                                    
ability  to  travel  had  been  hampered  in  comparison  to                                                                    
individuals living in an urban area.                                                                                            
Ms. Rich replied that the  short answer was no. She believed                                                                    
Representative Pruitt was asking  whether the bill needed to                                                                    
be passed to provide  individuals with sufficient grounds to                                                                    
challenge whether their right  to travel had been interfered                                                                    
with. She could not opine  without a specific set of factual                                                                    
circumstances  about what  would be  needed to  successfully                                                                    
mount that challenge.  However, the ACLU did  not believe it                                                                    
would  be  the  legislature  standing   in  the  way  of  an                                                                    
individual's right to  travel if the bill did  not pass. She                                                                    
reasoned  that individuals  always  had  the alternative  of                                                                    
obtaining  a passport  or passport  card.  She conceded  the                                                                    
option was more expensive, but  a bit easier for individuals                                                                    
in rural  communities to obtain  because they  could receive                                                                    
the passport in  the mail. The ACLU's position  had not been                                                                    
in favor of  passing the bill for those reasons,  but it had                                                                    
not been  opposed; if the  bill was passed, the  ACLU wanted                                                                    
to see the most privacy protections included as possible.                                                                       
3:37:29 PM                                                                                                                    
Co-Chair Seaton stated that they  had been working on trying                                                                    
to keep Alaskans safe and  trying to look at convictions and                                                                    
gaining the  ability to  compare some  of the  databases. He                                                                    
spoke about efforts in another  bill to get outstanding rape                                                                    
kits processed.  He asked if  there was  a push to  have the                                                                    
current 15-year database retention  timeframe reduced due to                                                                    
REAL  ID. He  had  not  seen anything  come  forward in  the                                                                    
legislature  indicating there  had been  a problem  with the                                                                    
current 15-year  retention. He wondered whether  a reduction                                                                    
to the retention  would in some way impacting  DPS and child                                                                    
welfare  enforcement. He  asked if  there had  been any  big                                                                    
problem with the 15-year number.                                                                                                
Ms.  Rich  answered  there had  been  no  significant  event                                                                    
indicating  that retention  for 15  years as  opposed to  10                                                                    
years  would  make a  substantial  difference.  In terms  of                                                                    
privacy prevention, the  less data kept about  a person, the                                                                    
better. From  ACLU's perspective,  a 15-year  old photograph                                                                    
of a  person was of limited  utility even for cold  cases or                                                                    
missing  persons  investigations.  She  believed  it  was  a                                                                    
policy  decision  for  the   legislature  to  weigh  whether                                                                    
outdated  photographs  were worth  the  amount  of data  the                                                                    
government  amassed as  a result  of keeping  photographs of                                                                    
every Alaskan driver's license and  identity card holder for                                                                    
five additional years.                                                                                                          
3:40:51 PM                                                                                                                    
TOM   ROTH,  CHIEF   OPERATING   OFFICE,  ANCHORAGE   SCHOOL                                                                    
DISTRICT, ANCHORAGE (via  teleconference), supported passage                                                                    
of legislation that would enable  residents to obtain state-                                                                    
issued   REAL  ID   compliant  identification   or  driver's                                                                    
licenses.  He relayed  that  the  Anchorage School  District                                                                    
educated  approximately 1,600  students  at five  elementary                                                                    
schools   located  on   JBER.  The   district's  information                                                                    
technology and  fine arts departments  were also  located on                                                                    
JBER. At any given time  during the standard school day, the                                                                    
district   had  up   to   500   employees  supporting   JBER                                                                    
activities, schools,  and students. To maintain  its mission                                                                    
on JBER after June 6th,  the district issued guidance in the                                                                    
current month  to employees  to obtain  a REAL  ID compliant                                                                    
identification at  individual cost. He endorsed  the passage                                                                    
of the legislation.                                                                                                             
3:42:44 PM                                                                                                                    
THOR BROWN,  TEAMSTERS 959, ANCHORAGE  (via teleconference),                                                                    
spoke  in support  of the  legislation.  He provided  detail                                                                    
about  the members  the union  covered including  school bus                                                                    
drivers,  delivery drivers,  port companies,  and other  who                                                                    
were responsible  for delivering  food and materials  to and                                                                    
from   bases   for   construction   and   maintenance.   The                                                                    
legislation  would enable  its  members  to access  military                                                                    
bases without the  added cost of a passport.  He believed it                                                                    
seemed like a fair compromise  to have an opt-out option for                                                                    
individuals  not  wanting to  participate  in  REAL ID.  The                                                                    
union  had  concerns  with   security  and  appreciated  the                                                                    
involvement of the ACLU as  far back as 2008. Many Teamsters                                                                    
members were  already part of  culture of  background checks                                                                    
for security purposes.  He was puzzled by the  total lack of                                                                    
concern  for commercial  driver's license  holders' privacy.                                                                    
He spoke  to background  checks that  were required  for ten                                                                    
years. He  had learned earlier  in the current  meeting that                                                                    
his entire social security number  had been shared, which he                                                                    
found  bothersome. He  relayed that  individuals working  at                                                                    
the port  received a background check,  those with hazardous                                                                    
materials  working  at  the  port  received  two  background                                                                    
checks, and individuals working  at the post office received                                                                    
three background checks.  He stated that if he had  to get a                                                                    
passport he would have to have  a fourth to access the base.                                                                    
He shared it  was becoming cumbersome to  pay the background                                                                    
checks  involved. He  stated that  the passport  or passport                                                                    
card was just another cost  members would absorb. There were                                                                    
several thousand individuals accessing  the base and much of                                                                    
the  cost would  go to  the people  who worked  and live  in                                                                    
Anchorage and Fairbanks.                                                                                                        
Representative  Kawasaki  asked  if most  Teamsters  drivers                                                                    
working on  base had a Transportation  Worker Identification                                                                    
Credential (TWIC) card.                                                                                                         
Mr. Brown  replied that  primarily the  people going  in and                                                                    
out  of  the  port  had  a  TWIC  card.  He  clarified  that                                                                    
currently  many  CDL holders  had  a  TWIC card  because  it                                                                    
provided access to the port, airport, and other areas.                                                                          
3:46:47 PM                                                                                                                    
JULIE   DUQUETTE,   ASSOCIATE  BUILDERS   AND   CONTRACTORS,                                                                    
FAIRBANKS (via  teleconference), testified  in favor  of the                                                                    
bill. She read from a prepared statement:                                                                                       
     I've worked  in the construction industry  for the past                                                                    
     30 years. I'm currently  employed with Slayden Plumbing                                                                    
     &  Heating.   Slayden  Plumbing   is  a   full  service                                                                    
     mechanical contractor specializing  in large commercial                                                                    
     and  Department of  Defense projects.  We have  several                                                                    
     projects this  year at Eielson  Air Force Base  for the                                                                    
     F-35 program  and we  just received  notice on  the UAF                                                                    
     hangar at Fort Wainwright.                                                                                                 
     I'm   here  today   speaking  on   behalf  of   ABC,  a                                                                    
     construction  industry   trade  association   with  142                                                                    
     members  and 279  active apprentices.  While I  respect                                                                    
     the differing  opinions on this  issue and  the debate,                                                                    
     but for all  of the philosophical debate for  us in the                                                                    
     construction industry  it comes down to  the reality of                                                                    
     jobs  and work  and not  philosophy. Homeland  Security                                                                    
     and  our local  bases  have now  told  us that  current                                                                    
     Alaska driver's licenses will not  be accepted for work                                                                    
     on the  military base.  This is  our reality.  With the                                                                    
     state capital  budgets cut to  a minimum,  federal work                                                                    
     on  the military  bases  are  the largest  construction                                                                    
     projects in  Alaska. We need Alaskans  working on these                                                                    
     projects. The  financial impact that the  military work                                                                    
     is  playing in  Alaska,  specifically the  construction                                                                    
     industry,    is    enormous   and    quite    honestly,                                                                    
     singlehandedly saving the  construction industry in the                                                                    
     State of Alaska. It is our  reality that not all of the                                                                    
     workers  will be  successful in  getting passports.  In                                                                    
     Fairbanks it now  takes five weeks just  to schedule an                                                                    
     appointment  to submit  your  passport application  and                                                                    
     then  another  three  to  six   weeks  to  process  the                                                                    
     request.  In our  short construction  season this  will                                                                    
     prevent Alaskans from working.                                                                                             
     I  believe  when  we checked  today  they're  into  the                                                                    
     middle  of  May  for taking  new  appointments.  Alaska                                                                    
     construction companies  and ABC fought  for Alaska-hire                                                                    
     provisions in  the federal contracts. We  won. There is                                                                    
     very  strong language  that  requires Alaska-hire.  How                                                                    
     ironic  that the  largest  impediment  in meeting  this                                                                    
     local hire is  our own inability to  field workers with                                                                    
     compliant  IDs.  Eielson  security told  us  this  week                                                                    
     global  access cards,  although acceptable  to TSA  and                                                                    
     requires a passport to be  issued, will not be accepted                                                                    
     as ID  at Eielson.  They also told  us that  there will                                                                    
     not be escort service  and bussing construction workers                                                                    
     on site will not be permitted.                                                                                             
     The  governor has  submitted a  bill that  seems to  be                                                                    
     reasonable  compromise. Alaskans  that want  a REAL  ID                                                                    
     compliant license  can get one,  those that  don't want                                                                    
     one can still get a  regular driver's license. It's our                                                                    
     choice. Please  give us, give  Alaskans, the  choice to                                                                    
     get a  REAL ID or  not. In  the end, Alaskans  will not                                                                    
     remember why  this bill  did not  pass, they  will only                                                                    
     remember  that they  could not  go to  work and  make a                                                                    
    living. Please pass this legislation this session.                                                                          
Vice-Chair  Gara  asked  which cards  Eielson  had  recently                                                                    
specified they would no longer be accepting in the future.                                                                      
Ms.  Duquette answered  it  was a  global  access card.  She                                                                    
detailed   it  had   been  another   idea  of   a  type   of                                                                    
identification people may be able  to use. She continued the                                                                    
item  was global  card for  national travel  to get  through                                                                    
TSA. However, Eielson would not accept the card.                                                                                
Co-Chair  Seaton  asked  if Ms.  Duquette  had  mentioned  a                                                                    
passport card not being acceptable.  Ms. Duquette replied in                                                                    
the negative.                                                                                                                   
3:51:24 PM                                                                                                                    
SCOTT EICKHOLT,  ALASKA LABORERS  LOCAL 942,  FAIRBANKS (via                                                                    
teleconference),  spoke  in  favor of  the  legislation.  He                                                                    
stated that it  was well-known the issue had  existed for 12                                                                    
years  and that  the  legislature had  chosen  to defer  any                                                                    
action. He  believed that it  would cost the state  close to                                                                    
$1.5 million to  become compliant. Possibly one  of the less                                                                    
talked about facts was what it  would cost the state in lost                                                                    
revenue due to  residents being forced to  spend their money                                                                    
outside of the state to  the federal government. He surmised                                                                    
the  amount  could reach  tens  of  millions of  dollars  if                                                                    
hundreds of thousands of people  opted for the $135 passport                                                                    
option. He continued  that in a rare  showing of solidarity,                                                                    
the business  and labor communities were  standing united on                                                                    
the issue.  He stated that  failing to act  would negatively                                                                    
impact  the  close  to  1,000  members  he  represented  and                                                                    
hundreds of thousands  of others. He asked  the committee to                                                                    
listen  to  what  appeared  to  be  the  majority  of  state                                                                    
residents by passing the legislation.                                                                                           
3:53:30 PM                                                                                                                    
KARA  MORIARTY,  PRESIDENT   AND  CHIEF  EXECUTIVE  OFFICER,                                                                    
ALASKA  OIL  AND  GAS  ASSOCIATION  (AOGA),  ANCHORAGE  (via                                                                    
teleconference),  testified in  support  of the  legislation                                                                    
because  it provided  the option  for Alaskans  to obtain  a                                                                    
REAL  ID.  Member  companies wanted  to  ensure  there  were                                                                    
seamless,  uninterrupted  access  to the  North  Slope.  She                                                                    
detailed that  almost every  worker had  to reach  the North                                                                    
Slope by  plane and would be  required to have a  REAL ID to                                                                    
travel if they  did not already have a  passport. She stated                                                                    
that due to the timeframe, it  could be cutting it close for                                                                    
individuals  to   get  a   passport.  The   association  was                                                                    
supportive  in passing  the legislature  during the  current                                                                    
session to avoid disruption to slope operations.                                                                                
Vice-Chair Gara stated he was  leaning towards agreeing with                                                                    
Ms.  Moriarty on  the issue.  He remarked  that some  people                                                                    
wondered  what was  wrong with  asking people  to get  a $55                                                                    
passport card.  He asked  Ms. Moriarty  for her  thoughts on                                                                    
the idea.                                                                                                                       
Ms.  Moriarty answered  that the  passport process  could be                                                                    
cumbersome. She  shared that it  had taken her  family close                                                                    
to  nine weeks  to  obtain passports.  Additionally, it  was                                                                    
also difficult  to replace  a passport if  it was  lost. She                                                                    
explained that it  would be an easier option  for workers to                                                                    
go to the DMV to obtain a REAL ID compliant card.                                                                               
Vice-Chair Gara  asked for  clarification if  Ms. Moriarty's                                                                    
personal experience had  been related to a  passport card or                                                                    
passport. Ms.  Moriarty replied her  family had  applied for                                                                    
passports  and passport  cards, which  had all  come at  the                                                                    
same time.                                                                                                                      
3:57:14 PM                                                                                                                    
TIM   JONES,  VICE   PRESIDENT   OF  ADMINISTRATION,   DOYON                                                                    
UTILITIES, FAIRBANKS (via  teleconference), spoke in support                                                                    
of  the  legislation.  He shared  that  the  company  owned,                                                                    
operated,  and maintained  the utilities  on the  three army                                                                    
installations  in Alaska.  He shared  information about  his                                                                    
professional background.  He understood the  arguments about                                                                    
federal overreach  and privacy,  but he also  understood the                                                                    
impacts  of failing  to pass  the  legislation. The  company                                                                    
employed  170  Alaskans,  all of  whom  required  access  to                                                                    
Alaska's military  installations. Nearly all of  the workers                                                                    
used their  Alaska driver's  license to  gain access  as did                                                                    
hundreds  of  other  Alaskans   working  as  contractors  on                                                                    
military installations.  He continued that if  the state did                                                                    
nothing many  individuals would be required  to get passport                                                                    
cards  or compliant  form of  identification  to keep  their                                                                    
job. Employers  who worked on  military bases would  have to                                                                    
find  ways  to get  the  work  done.  He spoke  about  prior                                                                    
testimony  to  the  Joint   Armed  Services  Committee  that                                                                    
hundreds of millions in  military construction dollars would                                                                    
be spent  in Alaska in the  next few years -  the last thing                                                                    
the state needed  was another reason to  award the contracts                                                                    
to non-Alaskan companies.                                                                                                       
Mr.  Jones stated  there would  be a  real impact  on hiring                                                                    
individuals who  did not  already have  a form  of compliant                                                                    
identification  because it  could take  several weeks  for a                                                                    
newly hired employee  to gain access to  their workplace. He                                                                    
acknowledged that the  state could require a  person to have                                                                    
a passport or passport card,  but practically speaking as an                                                                    
employer, when Doyon hired someone,  they had to work on the                                                                    
military installation  and had  to have access.  He detailed                                                                    
that  individuals had  to demonstrate  that they  could gain                                                                    
unescorted  access  to  the installation  before  they  were                                                                    
hired.  Therefore,  anyone applying  for  a  job with  Doyon                                                                    
would  have  to  have  a  passport  during  the  application                                                                    
process,  which  would  likely force  an  employer  to  hire                                                                    
individuals with  compliant identification. He  believed the                                                                    
bill's language allowing Alaskans to  opt out of the program                                                                    
and  the   other  stipulations   in  the   bill,  adequately                                                                    
addressed the  concerns of privacy  and overreach.  He urged                                                                    
the committee to pass the legislation.                                                                                          
Representative Kawasaki  referred to a document  provided by                                                                    
Commissioner  Fisher specifying  that one  of the  currently                                                                    
acceptable  forms   of  identification  was   an  employment                                                                    
authorization  document  containing  a photograph  and  Form                                                                    
I766. He asked what the document was.                                                                                           
Ms. Jones was not familiar with the document.                                                                                   
4:01:12 PM                                                                                                                    
JEFF  STEPP, STAFF  TO FAIRBANKS  NORTH  STAR BOROUGH  MAYOR                                                                    
KARL  KASSEL, FAIRBANKS  (via teleconference),  testified in                                                                    
support  of  the  legislation.   He  read  from  a  prepared                                                                    
     Back  in  October of  2016,  the  Fairbanks North  Star                                                                    
     Borough   Assembly  passed   a  resolution   supporting                                                                    
     efforts  by the  legislature  to resolve  the State  of                                                                    
     Alaska's compliance  with the  REAL ID  Act. Throughout                                                                    
     this  committee   process  and  in   conversation  with                                                                    
     legislators,  we have  heard  many reasonable  concerns                                                                    
     about individual privacy  and civil liberties, unfunded                                                                    
     federal mandates,  and federal  overreach. In  order to                                                                    
     better understand  the potential  risks of  passing the                                                                    
     proposed  REAL ID  legislation,  we  have reviewed  the                                                                    
     ACLU's  written  testimony   and  the  ACLU's  proposed                                                                    
     amendments.   We  are   in   agreement  that   Alaska's                                                                    
     compliance must focus to  the greatest extent possible,                                                                    
     on protecting  Alaskans' individual privacy  rights and                                                                    
     civil  liberties.  It appears  to  us  that the  ACLU's                                                                    
     proposed  amendments   may  offer  a   reasonable  path                                                                    
     forward  that  greatly safeguards  individual  liberty,                                                                    
     thus improving the legislation.                                                                                            
     Since   passing  the   Fairbanks  North   Star  Borough                                                                    
     resolution last  fall, we have continued  to be engaged                                                                    
     in  the  debate  and continue  to  support  legislation                                                                    
     bringing  Alaska  in   compliance.  During  Tiger  Team                                                                    
     meetings  here   in  Fairbanks,  Chamber   of  Commerce                                                                    
     meetings,  Fairbanks  Economic  Development  Commission                                                                    
     meetings,    town   halls    with   legislators,    and                                                                    
     correspondence   with    members   of    our   Interior                                                                    
     delegation,  we  have consistently  encouraged  elected                                                                    
     officials  to  protect  Alaskan residents  and  workers                                                                    
     from the  consequences of non-compliance. We  have also                                                                    
     read the letters of support  for HB 74 from our friends                                                                    
     and  neighbors   at  the   Chamber  of   Commerce,  the                                                                    
     Fairbanks  North Star  Borough  School District,  Doyon                                                                    
     Utilities,   and  many   other   local  and   statewide                                                                    
     organizations that  are in your  bill packets.  We echo                                                                    
     their statements and strong support  for the passage of                                                                    
     this legislation.                                                                                                          
     Fairbanks North  Star Borough remains committed  to our                                                                    
     resolution that  was passed last  fall. We  are hopeful                                                                    
     that you  will be  able to reach  a compromise  so that                                                                    
     Alaskans who choose  to do so can  receive state issued                                                                    
     REAL    ID   compliant    driver's   licenses    and/or                                                                    
     identification cards  before tens  or even  hundreds of                                                                    
     thousands  of   Alaskans  are  adversely   impacted  at                                                                    
     airports,  border  crossings,  military  installations,                                                                    
     and  other  federal  facilities.  Thank  you  for  your                                                                    
     service to our great state of Alaska.                                                                                      
4:04:14 PM                                                                                                                    
MEG NORDALE, PRESIDENT, GHEMM COMPANY, INC., FAIRBANKS (via                                                                     
teleconference), spoke in favor of the legislation. She                                                                         
read from prepared remarks:                                                                                                     
     I'm the  president of GHEMM Company,  a Fairbanks-based                                                                    
     general building contractor, and  a former president of                                                                    
     the  Associated General  Contractors  of  Alaska. I  am                                                                    
     urging  your consideration  and support  of House  Bill                                                                    
     74,  allowing  for  those residents  of  the  State  of                                                                    
     Alaska to  secure a REAL ID  compliant driver's license                                                                    
     or other REAL  ID compliant state-issued identification                                                                    
     in  order  to  access federal  military  installations.                                                                    
     Specifically,  I would  like  to  have assurances  that                                                                    
     Alaska's construction workforce will  be able to report                                                                    
     to   work  on   projects  that   my  company   and  all                                                                    
     construction  companies   in  Alaska  might   have  the                                                                    
     opportunity to  perform for any  branch of  the federal                                                                    
     The  current  economic  situation  that  our  state  is                                                                    
     facing does not lend itself  to robust budgets for both                                                                    
     public    and   private    construction.   Construction                                                                    
     companies  are  looking  at fewer  opportunities,  much                                                                    
     lower capital  budgets, much more  competitive bidding,                                                                    
     much  more levels  of employment.  Federal spending  in                                                                    
     Interior Alaska is  a bright spot that  should be taken                                                                    
     advantage  of  by  all   Alaskan  companies  and  their                                                                    
     workforces.  If we  as employers  and our  employees do                                                                    
     not have  easy access  to the  workplace, out  of state                                                                    
     workers will  fill those slots  just as  Julie Duquette                                                                    
     mentioned  earlier. The  last thing  that the  State of                                                                    
     Alaska  should be  doing  in my  opinion  is making  it                                                                    
     easier to hire out of  state workers who live in states                                                                    
     with REAL ID compliant forms of identification.                                                                            
     The  2017 construction  season is  upon us  and we  are                                                                    
     making  plans  for  work  activities  well  beyond  the                                                                    
     current June 6th waiver  expiration date. GHEMM Company                                                                    
     is  currently  working  at  Fort  Wainwright  employing                                                                    
     approximately 20  individuals who  will need  access to                                                                    
     the  installation on  a daily  basis. Additionally,  we                                                                    
     are bidding on  projects at Eielson Air  Force Base and                                                                    
     will be faced  with the impact of REAL ID  should we be                                                                    
     successful  there. Right  now, today,  we have  already                                                                    
     started   making   provisions   to  meet   the   access                                                                    
     requirements to both Eielson  and Fort Wainwright after                                                                    
     June 6th. We are  expending resources, real dollars, to                                                                    
     make certain  that all  of our  office and  field staff                                                                    
     will be  ready and  available to work  on June  6th and                                                                    
     beyond. Not only  will our process be  made much easier                                                                    
     with   the   passage   and   implementation   of   this                                                                    
     legislation, but  the resources  that we  are expending                                                                    
     today to find alternative  means of compliance could be                                                                    
     redirected in other ways which  would perhaps mean even                                                                    
     more jobs for Alaskan residents.                                                                                           
     I urge you to please give  Alaskans the choice to go to                                                                    
     work  by providing  them with  the option  to obtain  a                                                                    
     REAL  ID. Unemployment  could  be  the alternative  for                                                                    
     many and  in my  opinion the multiple  costs associated                                                                    
     with  unemployment are  great  for all  of business  in                                                                    
     Alaska and  the state  as a  whole. Please  keep Alaska                                                                    
     open  for   business  and  keep   it  easier   for  our                                                                    
     businesses to  work and employ Alaskans.  Thank you for                                                                    
     considering my comments.                                                                                                   
Co-Chair  Seaton relayed  the  committee  would hear  public                                                                    
testimony the evening of Tuesday, April 25.                                                                                     
Representative Wilson  wanted to know whether  an individual                                                                    
was required  to go to the  post office when applying  for a                                                                    
passport.  She thought  it could  make a  big difference  if                                                                    
everyone had  to go to the  post office. She thought  it was                                                                    
interesting   the  invited   testimony   had  included   one                                                                    
testifier  from  Anchorage,  six  from  Fairbanks,  and  six                                                                    
statewide.  She speculated  it may  have been  a message  to                                                                    
Fairbanks  legislators.  She  stressed that  she  and  other                                                                    
Fairbanks  legislators were  merely  trying  to protect  the                                                                    
privacy of state residents.                                                                                                     
Co-Chair Seaton stated  that the goal was to  have access to                                                                    
the base and jobs.                                                                                                              
Representative Wilson  remarked that there were  large bases                                                                    
in Anchorage as well.                                                                                                           
Co-Chair Seaton  thought the committee  may want to  ask the                                                                    
department about a  $20 fee increase in the  license fee and                                                                    
concern about  villages across the state  not having access.                                                                    
He thought it could be possible  to ask the department if it                                                                    
could  consider sending  someone around  the state  to rural                                                                    
Alaska. He reasoned  that a small eyesight  machine would be                                                                    
necessary in order to test applicants' vision.                                                                                  
Ms. Ridle  replied that the  department did not have  a plan                                                                    
yet,  but  it would  develop  one  immediately if  the  bill                                                                    
passed. She relayed  that it would include trying  to have a                                                                    
presence at  the Alaska  Federation of  Natives (AFN)[annual                                                                    
conference] to access people when  they traveled to the city                                                                    
in the  next couple of  years. She noted that  hopefully the                                                                    
extension would  get the  state to  October 2020.  She noted                                                                    
that the  department was concerned  about rural  Alaska. One                                                                    
thing that would  help some individuals in  rural Alaska was                                                                    
a Bureau  of Indian Affairs card  with a photo on  it, which                                                                    
was  also accepted  by TSA  for flying.  She envisioned  the                                                                    
department would  have extended  hours during AFN  and would                                                                    
travel to  rural areas to  help as many people  as possible.                                                                    
She reiterated that a plan  had not been formulated, but the                                                                    
department had been having discussions about the topic.                                                                         
Co-Chair Seaton surmised that  the additional revenue coming                                                                    
through  would probably  enable the  department to  mount an                                                                    
effort throughout  villages. He  understood it would  not be                                                                    
possible  to  travel  to  every village.  He  asked  if  the                                                                    
department would  consider traveling  to rural  hub villages                                                                    
without DMVs.                                                                                                                   
Ms.  Ridle confirmed  it would  be something  the department                                                                    
would want to do. The department  would try to do as much as                                                                    
possible and would probably need  to ask permission to spend                                                                    
a bit of extra funding for the effort.                                                                                          
Co-Chair Seaton  stated that if  the department  was looking                                                                    
at  a  plan it  could  identify  the  fiscal note  from  the                                                                    
receipts it would receive. He  noted the bill would be heard                                                                    
again the following Tuesday.                                                                                                    
4:12:57 PM                                                                                                                    
Vice-Chair  Gara stated  the bill  contained vague  language                                                                    
that  the DMV  would tell  a  person their  options if  they                                                                    
chose a non-REAL ID license. He  noted that the bill did not                                                                    
specify   that   the  DMV   would   tell   the  person   the                                                                    
ramifications.  He assumed  that the  DMV would  tell people                                                                    
about the  ramifications of selecting  on ID or  another. He                                                                    
asked for verification the specification  did not need to be                                                                    
added to the legislation.                                                                                                       
Ms. Ridle concurred  that the specification did  not need to                                                                    
be included in the bill.  She believed the DMV would outline                                                                    
the  information   so  customers  could  make   an  informed                                                                    
decision  about the  ID they  selected. She  added that  the                                                                    
department  wanted   to  provide  the  information   to  its                                                                    
customers and did not want to hide anything.                                                                                    
Representative   Wilson   asked   if  there   was   anything                                                                    
preventing the department from implementing  a travel DMV to                                                                    
rural villages. She used Nome as an example.                                                                                    
Ms. Ridle  replied that the DMV  had an office in  Nome. She                                                                    
detailed that the camera was  very fragile and required high                                                                    
speed internet. Therefore, DMV would  more likely try to set                                                                    
up  in rural  hub communities  for a  longer timeframe  with                                                                    
extended  hours. She  surmised that  perhaps during  AFN the                                                                    
department could run buses to DMV and offer extended hours.                                                                     
Representative  Wilson  asked  why there  were  not  private                                                                    
businesses offering  some DMV services in  locations with no                                                                    
Ms.  Ridle replied  that a  pilot program  had begun  in the                                                                    
current  month where  private partners  were doing  driver's                                                                    
licenses.  The department  envisioned that  private partners                                                                    
would help with  the REAL ID as well. The  program had begun                                                                    
with one  group and  would be offered  to others  wanting to                                                                    
4:15:45 PM                                                                                                                    
Representative Wilson thanked the department.                                                                                   
Vice-Chair Gara spoke to the  requirement to go an office to                                                                    
get a REAL ID compliant  form of identification. He asked if                                                                    
a person could  currently get a license without  going in to                                                                    
Ms. Ridle replied  that an individual was required  to go to                                                                    
a DMV  to receive their  initial license. The  license could                                                                    
then be renewed online at least one time.                                                                                       
Vice-Chair Gara remarked to the  department that the glue on                                                                    
the vehicle license plate tags did not work in the winter.                                                                      
Representative  Kawasaki asked  if the  paper identification                                                                    
card  a person  would get  from DMV  allow them  to board  a                                                                    
Ms.  Ridle answered  that it  did at  present. However,  the                                                                    
department  had  checked  with the  Department  of  Homeland                                                                    
Security and  it would  not in the  future. She  addressed a                                                                    
difference  between  licenses  and passports.  She  detailed                                                                    
that  passport renewal  required  mailing  the passport  in,                                                                    
which  meant an  Alaskan had  to  find a  six to  eight-week                                                                    
period when they  would not fly. She  stated that personally                                                                    
that was very difficult - for  a ten-year period she had not                                                                    
had a  six to  eight-week period when  she had  not traveled                                                                    
(even driving  through Canada to get  to Anchorage). Whereas                                                                    
it  was  possible to  keep  an  old driver's  license  while                                                                    
waiting  to  get  the  new   one,  which  was  part  of  the                                                                    
convenience of a driver's license versus a passport.                                                                            
Co-Chair Seaton  asked for verification that  a person could                                                                    
not  renew or  replace a  non-compliant license  because DMV                                                                    
did not keep the original paperwork.                                                                                            
Ms. Ridle agreed that under  the current version of the bill                                                                    
the  DMV would  not have  backup  documents on  file and  it                                                                    
would require an individual to come  back in to the DMV with                                                                    
documentation. Whereas, if  a person had a REAL  ID, the DMV                                                                    
would maintain  the person's  documents, and  the individual                                                                    
would  be able  to  come back  in to  receive  a renewed  or                                                                    
replaced license.                                                                                                               
4:18:35 PM                                                                                                                    
Representative  Kawasaki provided  a scenario  using October                                                                    
3, 2020 and asked for  verification that an individual would                                                                    
not be able  to fly if they  only had a paper  card and were                                                                    
waiting to receive their REAL ID compliant card.                                                                                
Ms. Ridle  answered in the  affirmative. The  department had                                                                    
been told that people would be  turned away by TSA without a                                                                    
compliant ID (including a passport).                                                                                            
Representative Guttenberg  stated his understanding  that if                                                                    
an  individual went  to fly  at present  without an  ID they                                                                    
would be  subject to a  more intensive "pat down."  He asked                                                                    
if the same would be true in the future.                                                                                        
Ms. Ridle replied  in the negative. She shared  that she had                                                                    
asked  the  question  in  an  email  to  the  Department  of                                                                    
Homeland  Security and  had been  told  that the  individual                                                                    
would  be turned  away if  they did  not have  a REAL  ID or                                                                    
passport that was compliant (beginning October 2020).                                                                           
Representative    Guttenberg   thought    the   constitution                                                                    
specified  that a  person's  right to  travel  could not  be                                                                    
Ms.  Ridle  replied  that  she   was  not  a  constitutional                                                                    
scholar,  but  she  did  believe people  had  the  right  to                                                                    
travel. She  specified there was  a legality of  the federal                                                                    
government  "your   entry  into  their  facilities"   -  she                                                                    
explained that the TSA and  military bases were both federal                                                                    
facilities  and  the federal  government  had  the right  to                                                                    
limit a person's entry into  its facilities. She deferred to                                                                    
the Department of Law for further detail.                                                                                       
Representative  Guttenberg  understood  the  point  about  a                                                                    
federal facility, but countered that  an airport is a public                                                                    
Representative   Wilson  asked   for  verification   that  a                                                                    
person's  first REAL  ID would  still be  a paper  copy. She                                                                    
surmised there would still be an issue of a paper copy.                                                                         
Ms. Ridle  answered in the  affirmative - it would  still be                                                                    
the  same  process to  create  the  REAL  ID. She  had  been                                                                    
surprised that  Representative Grenn had been  told he would                                                                    
receive a  hard copy of  his new license  in 30 to  60 days.                                                                    
She clarified  that the wait time  should be closer to  7 to                                                                    
10 days. She reiterated her  earlier statement that a person                                                                    
could hold  onto their old  license when applying for  a new                                                                    
Representative Wilson  stated that  she wanted to  make sure                                                                    
the paper copy would be for both.                                                                                               
Co-Chair Seaton  relayed he was considering  an amendment to                                                                    
maintain the  current statutory 15-year period  in order not                                                                    
to  impact  other state  agencies.  He  noted the  ACLU  had                                                                    
testified  they  knew  of  no   problems  with  the  current                                                                    
encrypted system.                                                                                                               
4:23:11 PM                                                                                                                    
Representative   Kawasaki  referred   to   AAMVA  and   SSNs                                                                    
collected by DMV.  He stated it was not required  by REAL ID                                                                    
and he could  not determine why the process  was required at                                                                    
all other than acting as a  source of identifier. He did not                                                                    
know the  process of  other states  that were  not currently                                                                    
AAMVA members, but he was  concerned about the issue related                                                                    
to  privacy. He  reasoned that  if the  first three  numbers                                                                    
were  commonly   known  and  the  last   five  numbers  were                                                                    
provided,  it meant  someone  had  a one  in  ten chance  of                                                                    
figuring out  the remaining digit.  He believed  his concern                                                                    
was shared by some other committee members and the ACLU.                                                                        
Co-Chair  Seaton   asked  if  Representative   Kawasaki  was                                                                    
thinking about including a letter  of intent to ask that the                                                                    
fifth digit not  be provided. He believed  the testimony had                                                                    
been that four  digits were required to ensure  a person did                                                                    
not have another license in a different state.                                                                                  
Representative Kawasaki replied that  his concern began with                                                                    
the fifth  digit. But  he wondered  why the  information was                                                                    
collected at  all and  was interested  in what  other states                                                                    
did who were not AAMVA participants.                                                                                            
Ms.  Ridle  believed  the  requirement to  get  a  SSN  when                                                                    
applying  for a  driver's license  was a  federal regulation                                                                    
that existed under the current  system as well as under REAL                                                                    
ID.  There  was  also  intersection  with  other  state  law                                                                    
related  to child  support enforcement  and collection  that                                                                    
used  the   SSN.  She   believed  Commissioner   Fisher  had                                                                    
testified there was not a  requirement that the DMV send the                                                                    
five  digits. She  explained that  the  SSN was  one of  the                                                                    
documents  required to  get a  driver's license  at present.                                                                    
Additionally, all 50  states were involved in  AAMVA and she                                                                    
believed they always had been;  the organization had been in                                                                    
place  since   1933.  She  continued  that   AAMVA  was  the                                                                    
organization  of DMV  directors  - it  worked  to make  sure                                                                    
state's set  consistent policy that  was similar  from state                                                                    
to  state.  She furthered  that  AAMVA  was the  vehicle  to                                                                    
comply with the  REAL ID - it was the  vehicle that Homeland                                                                    
Security  had certified;  there  was not  another option  to                                                                    
achieve  compliance. She  reasoned it  there may  be another                                                                    
database in  the future. She  explained that  the department                                                                    
had  reached out  to AAMVA  (additionally,  the state's  DMV                                                                    
director was  on the organization's  board) to  request that                                                                    
the required social security digits  be reduced to four. She                                                                    
relayed that it was similar  to an ERIC bill the legislature                                                                    
had  passed  the  previous  year that  only  used  four  SSN                                                                    
digits; ERIC  was a similar  nonprofit organization  made up                                                                    
to work on voter issues.                                                                                                        
4:27:05 PM                                                                                                                    
Vice-Chair  Gara   relayed  was  planning  to   offer  three                                                                    
amendments. He detailed the first  was related to asking the                                                                    
department  to limit  the  number of  SSN  digits shared  as                                                                    
quickly as  possible. He  was not  even sure  that releasing                                                                    
four social  security digits was right.  The amendment would                                                                    
request reducing the  number of digits shared  to three when                                                                    
feasible. Second, he was concerned  about the non-release of                                                                    
information internally to DPS for  cold cases. Third, he was                                                                    
not convinced a  $20 hike in the license  fee was warranted.                                                                    
He  was more  compelled by  Commissioner Fisher's  statement                                                                    
that a $10 would make the bill cost neutral.                                                                                    
Representative Wilson  provided a  scenario about  getting a                                                                    
license at present. She asked  if all the documents provided                                                                    
to  DMV  by an  individual  seeking  a license  (e.g.  birth                                                                    
certificate) were scanned.                                                                                                      
Ms.  Ridle  answered  that  the   DMV  scanned  primary  and                                                                    
secondary  documents provided  by applicants  (shown in  the                                                                    
presentation appendix  on slide 12). The  department did not                                                                    
scan the information  an individual brought in  to show they                                                                    
live in Alaska  (e.g. a checkbook or utility  bill showing a                                                                    
person's address).                                                                                                              
Representative  Wilson understood  the DPS's  use of  photos                                                                    
provided to  DMV, but she did  not want her photo  used in a                                                                    
lineup  for  any  reason.  She  wondered  about  purpose  of                                                                    
keeping a  scanned copy  of a  birth certificate  and social                                                                    
security card other than not  having to ask an applicant for                                                                    
them again in the future.                                                                                                       
Ms. Ridle  responded that one  reason was for  convenience -                                                                    
enabling a person to renew  online or receive a duplicate if                                                                    
they  lost a  license while  traveling. Another  purpose was                                                                    
for fraud detection. The department  worried a bit about the                                                                    
non-compliant cards  - she had  shared her concern  with the                                                                    
ACLU  that if  the  DMV  was not  taking  documents for  the                                                                    
cards, the division  had no way of doing an  audit on a card                                                                    
that was issued  if there were no backup  documents kept (to                                                                    
ensure  the DMV  clerk did  receive the  information and  to                                                                    
ensure  another  person  was not  getting  a  license  under                                                                    
someone else's name).                                                                                                           
4:30:51 PM                                                                                                                    
Representative  Wilson asked  if  the  primary or  secondary                                                                    
information went anywhere outside the DMV.                                                                                      
Ms.  Ridle answered  that the  information  was shared  with                                                                    
DPS, but not outside the state system.                                                                                          
Representative  Wilson detailed  her understanding  that DMV                                                                    
shared   primary  and   secondary  information   with  other                                                                    
agencies  besides DPS,  including the  Office of  Children's                                                                    
Services and  child support. She asked  which other agencies                                                                    
DMV would share the documents with.                                                                                             
Ms.  Ridle  answered that  she  believed  the division  only                                                                    
shared the  information with  DPS and  that DPS  shared with                                                                    
other agencies. For example, if  the Permanent Fund Dividend                                                                    
Division  or Division  of Public  Assistance  was trying  to                                                                    
prove  a  fraud case.  She  did  not believed  DMV  directly                                                                    
provided  the data  to the  other agencies  - it  was routed                                                                    
through DPS.                                                                                                                    
Representative  Wilson believed  no one  had previously  had                                                                    
the problem with  the issue because they had  not been aware                                                                    
of it. She did not know  that DPS could use anyone's picture                                                                    
in  a   lineup  or  that  people's   primary  and  secondary                                                                    
documents  were shared  outside the  DMV. She  remarked that                                                                    
she now understood that DPS  could share the data with other                                                                    
Ms.  Thompson clarified  that when  DMV shared  data it  was                                                                    
based on  a court subpoena  or something that  was required.                                                                    
The data shared  with DPS was "more on the  photo side." For                                                                    
example, if a  person was pulled over  driving, the driver's                                                                    
license was hooked into the DPS system.                                                                                         
4:33:39 PM                                                                                                                    
Representative  Pruitt asked  for verification  DPS did  not                                                                    
have  access  to source  documents  if  they pulled  someone                                                                    
over. Ms. Thompson  replied that an officer  would only have                                                                    
access to  the photo and  driver's license - they  would not                                                                    
have the ability to access source documents.                                                                                    
HB  74  was   HEARD  and  HELD  in   committee  for  further                                                                    
Co-Chair  Seaton addressed  the schedule  for the  following                                                                    
4:35:32 PM                                                                                                                    
The meeting was adjourned at 4:35 p.m.