Legislature(2017 - 2018)HOUSE FINANCE 519

04/13/2017 01:30 PM FINANCE

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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
-- Recessed to a Call of the Chair --
-- Delayed to 2:00 PM --
Moved CSHB 127(FIN) Out of Committee
Moved HB 47 Out of Committee
<Bill Hearing Canceled>
+ Bills Previously Heard/Scheduled TELECONFERENCED
Heard & Held
HOUSE BILL NO. 127                                                                                                            
     "An Act  relating to a  permanent fund dividend  for an                                                                    
     individual   whose   conviction   has   been   vacated,                                                                    
     reversed,   or   dismissed;   and   relating   to   the                                                                    
     calculation  of   the  value  of  the   permanent  fund                                                                    
     dividend by  including payment to  individuals eligible                                                                    
     for a  permanent fund dividend because  of a conviction                                                                    
     that has been vacated, reversed, or dismissed."                                                                            
2:10:55 PM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE SCOTT KAWASAKI, SPONSOR, did not have                                                                            
additional information to add related to the bill.                                                                              
2:11:43 PM                                                                                                                    
Representative Wilson MOVED to ADOPT Amendment 1, 30-                                                                           
LS0480\A.4 (Martin, 4/7/17) (copy on file):                                                                                     
     Page 2, line 1:                                                                                                            
     Delete "120 days"                                                                                                          
     Insert "one year"                                                                                                          
     Page 3, line 3:                                                                                                            
     Delete "120 days"                                                                                                          
     Insert "one year"                                                                                                          
Representative Pruitt OBJECTED for discussion.                                                                                  
Representative  Wilson explained  the  amendment that  would                                                                    
delete "120 days" and replace it with one year.                                                                                 
Representative Kawasaki  appreciated the bipartisan  work on                                                                    
the amendment.                                                                                                                  
Representative Grenn  asked to  sign on  as a  co-sponsor to                                                                    
the amendment.                                                                                                                  
Representative  Pruitt WITHDREW  his OBJECTION.  There being                                                                    
NO OBJECTION, it was so ordered.                                                                                                
2:13:48 PM                                                                                                                    
Representative  Pruitt  MOVED  to  ADOPT  Amendment  2,  30-                                                                    
LS0480\A.5 (Martin,  4/12/17) (copy  on file) [Note:  due to                                                                    
length of  amendment it  is not included  here. See  copy on                                                                    
Representative Kawasaki OBJECTED.                                                                                               
Representative Pruitt explained  the amendment. He explained                                                                    
the amendment had been brought forward by a victim.                                                                             
Representative  Ortiz  asked  for  clarification  about  the                                                                    
intent of  the amendment. He  wondered if it would  offer an                                                                    
option for repayment during the timeframe.                                                                                      
Representative Pruitt  stated it was an  option available to                                                                    
the  courts. He  explained  the person  in  the scenario  he                                                                    
outlined had been living freely.                                                                                                
Representative Grenn  asked where the repayment  funds would                                                                    
Representative  Pruitt  replied  that  he  had  contemplated                                                                    
putting  the money  in the  victim's funds.  He was  open to                                                                    
putting  the  money  wherever. The  goal  was  to  recognize                                                                    
victims.  He was  amenable to  having  the money  go to  the                                                                    
victim fund.                                                                                                                    
Representative   Guttenberg  was   in   support  of   making                                                                    
restitution  for someone  convicted of  a felony.  He stated                                                                    
that a conviction  did not make a person  ineligible for the                                                                    
dividend. He  believed there were many  questions pertaining                                                                    
to the  issue. He did not  know what the legal  aspect would                                                                    
be. He did not support the amendment.                                                                                           
2:20:27 PM                                                                                                                    
Representative   Pruitt   answered    there   were   certain                                                                    
situations where  a person was  made eligible.  He explained                                                                    
the only reason a person  was not ineligible was most likely                                                                    
because they had not been caught.                                                                                               
Co-Chair Foster  noted there were individuals  available for                                                                    
Representative   Kawasaki  had   some  concerns   about  the                                                                    
amendment. He  stated the amendment could  probably be added                                                                    
to a separate bill. He did not support it at present.                                                                           
2:25:01 PM                                                                                                                    
SARAH  RACE,  DIRECTOR,  PERMANENT FUND  DIVIDEND  DIVISION,                                                                    
DEPARTMENT OF  REVENUE, provided  detail on  current statute                                                                    
related  to eligibility  for individuals.  Prior to  payment                                                                    
the  Department  of Corrections  (DOC)  provided  a list  of                                                                    
individuals who  should be ineligible for  the dividend. She                                                                    
spoke to  how to  move forward with  the collections  of the                                                                    
Co-Chair Foster recognized  Representative Jennifer Johnston                                                                    
in the audience.                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Seaton  saw  the amendment  as  unrelated  to  the                                                                    
current bill. He wondered if  the maker of the amendment had                                                                    
received  a Legislative  Legal Services  memo regarding  the                                                                    
Representative Pruitt replied in the negative.                                                                                  
Co-Chair Seaton wondered about a  fiscal note related to the                                                                    
amendment. He provided a scenario  that could cost money. He                                                                    
wondered what would be the  effect if the individual did not                                                                    
have any money. He wondered about past circumstances.                                                                           
Representative Pruitt  stated the  question was good  and he                                                                    
could not fully answer it.                                                                                                      
2:29:45 PM                                                                                                                    
Representative  Wilson stated  the  amendment  would not  go                                                                    
backwards. She reasoned  the court would not  have imposed a                                                                    
conviction. She offered a conceptual  Amendment 1 related to                                                                    
victims compensation fund.                                                                                                      
Vice-Chair Gara OBJECTED.                                                                                                       
Representative  Wilson  stated that  the  goal  was to  help                                                                    
Vice-Chair Gara understood the intent,  but he did not think                                                                    
there was  an easy way  to do it.  If it  were up to  him he                                                                    
would  send the  money directly  to the  victim. Instead  he                                                                    
thought they  were building a  bureaucracy around  the issue                                                                    
that would require multiple steps.  He observed they did not                                                                    
know the  cost or  if the compensation  fund would  give the                                                                    
money to the victim                                                                                                             
2:33:13 PM                                                                                                                    
Representative  Guttenberg   asked  queried  the   order  of                                                                    
victim's compensation versus repaying the defendant.                                                                            
KACI   SCHROEDER,  ASSISTANT   ATTORNEY  GENERAL,   CRIMINAL                                                                    
DIVISION, DEPARTMENT OF LAW, deferred the question to DOR.                                                                      
Ms. Race asked for clarification on the question.                                                                               
Representative  Guttenberg  asked  who would  be  paid  back                                                                    
first - the victim or the fund.                                                                                                 
Ms. Race answered it would  go back into funds available for                                                                    
carrying forward the next year's dividend calculation.                                                                          
Representative Guttenberg  surmised that the money  would go                                                                    
to the  victim's compensation  fund. He  asked who  would be                                                                    
paid back first.                                                                                                                
Ms.  Race replied  that typically  when the  division did  a                                                                    
collection of funds that had been  paid out. There was not a                                                                    
priority  order established.  She thought  another structure                                                                    
may need to be put into place.                                                                                                  
Ms. Schroeder stated her understanding  of the question. She                                                                    
stated that  unfortunately the  answer was  not known  . She                                                                    
explained that restitution was what  the defendant owed - it                                                                    
would have  to be  sorted out. The  court system  was taking                                                                    
over collections of restitution.                                                                                                
Representative Pruitt  returned to a  previous conversation.                                                                    
He underscored  that the amendment  included "may"  and left                                                                    
the  concept  in  the  court's hands.  He  agreed  with  the                                                                    
amendment to the amendment.                                                                                                     
2:39:11 PM                                                                                                                    
Representative  Wilson provided  wrap up  on the  conceptual                                                                    
Vice-Chair  Gara  WITHDREW  his OBJECTION.  There  being  NO                                                                    
OBJECTION,  Conceptual  Amendment  1   to  Amendment  2  was                                                                    
Representative  Ortiz  wondered  whether  the  argument  was                                                                    
based on similar crimes that may not have been tried.                                                                           
Representative Pruitt  explained the  intent was  related to                                                                    
individuals who had eluded the state for several years.                                                                         
2:43:11 PM                                                                                                                    
Vice-Chair Gara  understood the intent of  the amendment. He                                                                    
stated a court  would not do that - the  standards had to be                                                                    
in  the  provision. The  court  would  have no  standard  to                                                                    
follow. It  was not possible  to assume the court  would act                                                                    
like  the  finance  committee. He  thought  in  concept  the                                                                    
amendment made  sense, but that  it should be written  in an                                                                    
enforceable way.                                                                                                                
Representative  Guttenberg agreed.  He  thought the  concept                                                                    
was  interesting,  but  he   believed  there  were  numerous                                                                    
questions  that  needed  to   be  answered.  He  provided  a                                                                    
scenario and asked how far back they could go.                                                                                  
Ms. Schroeder answered  that it was for  crimes committed on                                                                    
or after the effective date.                                                                                                    
2:46:14 PM                                                                                                                    
Representative Guttenberg  pointed to  page 3, Section  4 of                                                                    
the amendment that  would add a new section  to the dividend                                                                    
application.   He  asked   about  the   complexity  of   the                                                                    
Ms.  Race   believed  it  would   be  merely   a  disclaimer                                                                    
statement.  There were  several  different  bullets where  a                                                                    
person  had to  certify everything  they wrote  was accurate                                                                    
and true.                                                                                                                       
NANCY   MEADE,  GENERAL   COUNSEL,   ALASKA  COURT   SYSTEM,                                                                    
introduced herself.                                                                                                             
Vice-Chair  Gara  would  prefer  to  see  the  money  go  to                                                                    
restitution.  He  asked if  the  money  were  to go  to  the                                                                    
Victims  Compensation  Fund  would   it  reduce  the  amount                                                                    
available  for restitution.  Second, the  amendment language                                                                    
stated "the  court may  order" but  did not  specify whether                                                                    
the individual had money.                                                                                                       
Ms.  Meade  answered  the  money   would  be  due  from  the                                                                    
Vice-Chair  Gara clarified  there had  been an  amendment to                                                                    
put the money into the Victims Compensation Fund.                                                                               
Ms. Meade replied that there  the fund would be appropriated                                                                    
from that  fund. She  stated that  the money  collected from                                                                    
the defended, and there would be more money available.                                                                          
2:51:32 PM                                                                                                                    
Vice-Chair Gara  wondered whether the amendment  would limit                                                                    
restitution to the victim.                                                                                                      
Ms. Meade replied  that the money in  the Permanent Dividend                                                                    
Fund was  not being used  for restitution. The  court's role                                                                    
would  be to  act as  a funnel  between the  debtor and  the                                                                    
creditor in the scenario. By  adding money into the dividend                                                                    
fund there would be more money available.                                                                                       
Vice-Chair Gara  asked wondered  whether the  court received                                                                    
the money.                                                                                                                      
Ms. Meade did  not believe the court would  be collecting or                                                                    
receiving  any  of  the  money.  Currently  fines  were  not                                                                    
collected by the court.                                                                                                         
2:53:42 PM                                                                                                                    
Vice-Chair Gara did not understand  the answer. He explained                                                                    
the standard was  not included. He asked if  the court would                                                                    
only go after people with money.                                                                                                
Ms. Meade clarified that the  court did not go after anyone;                                                                    
it imposed fines. The court  could impose a maximum fine set                                                                    
out in  statute. The  court did not  ensure the  person paid                                                                    
the  fine. If  the court  were to  order a  person to  repay                                                                    
their PFD it would not go  after the person for payment. The                                                                    
PFD Division would have to pursue the issue.                                                                                    
Co-Chair Seaton pointed  to page 1, line 9  of the amendment                                                                    
related to a  defendant convicted of an  offence. However on                                                                    
page 2,  a person  had been convicted  of a  misdemeanor. He                                                                    
asked if the amendment could be  imposed on a person who had                                                                    
been convicted for a misdemeanor.                                                                                               
Ms. Meade believed Co-Chair Seaton was correct.                                                                                 
2:57:29 PM                                                                                                                    
Co-Chair Seaton  was trying  to figure out  how it  could be                                                                    
distinguished  from  a  person  working for  the  state  who                                                                    
received wages.                                                                                                                 
Ms. Meade replied  that she believed if  someone committed a                                                                    
crime in  2012, must pay  back to  the PFD office  the total                                                                    
amount of the  2014 through 2015 dividend. She  did not know                                                                    
if the court would have  enough information about a person's                                                                    
2:59:25 PM                                                                                                                    
Representative  Grenn   asked  about  the   PFD  eligibility                                                                    
process.  He thought  the bill  would only  deal with  a few                                                                    
people per year.  He thought the amendment  could pertain to                                                                    
numerous  people. He  asked what  number of  individuals who                                                                    
applied for a PFD were deemed ineligible.                                                                                       
Ms. Race  answered it  was roughly  between 1,000  and 2,000                                                                    
Representative  Grenn asked  for verification  of the  1,500                                                                    
Ms. Race explained the current process.                                                                                         
3:01:45 PM                                                                                                                    
Representative Grenn  asked for  verification it  dealt with                                                                    
the current year.                                                                                                               
Ms. Race answered in the affirmative.                                                                                           
Representative Grenn queried the communication efforts.                                                                         
Ms. Race  responded that  the division would  have to  be in                                                                    
direct communication  with the  courts. She  highlighted the                                                                    
several  different  aspects  a  person would  need  to  meet                                                                    
including paying back a given number of dividends.                                                                              
Representative Grenn asked about the administrative load.                                                                       
Ms.  Race answered  it depended  on  the communication.  She                                                                    
stressed without the information they  would not know how to                                                                    
proceed with the collections in general.                                                                                        
Representative  Wilson  remarked  that  it  was  simply  the                                                                    
courts  would make  the determination  and would  pass along                                                                    
the information  to the PFD Division.  She characterized the                                                                    
items as  tools in  the toolbox  for the  court to  use. She                                                                    
thought the amendment  worked well with the  bill before the                                                                    
committee. She  remarked that  sometimes court  cases lasted                                                                    
several  years. She  believed the  amendment  sent a  strong                                                                    
message  that people  would not  be able  to gain  from what                                                                    
they did.  She would have  been opposed to the  amendment if                                                                    
it included  "shall" she thought  it sent a  strong message.                                                                    
She wanted to get as much back to victims as possible.                                                                          
3:06:39 PM                                                                                                                    
Ms. Meade responded further to  an earlier question by Vice-                                                                    
Chair Gara.  She thought  the concern  he may  be expressing                                                                    
was that defendants  had limited means and if  the money was                                                                    
owed  there was  that much  less money  available for  other                                                                    
things.  It  would  be an  additional  monetary  obligation,                                                                    
which may be less money available for restitution.                                                                              
Representative   Guttenberg   thought    the   concept   was                                                                    
interesting.  He did  not think  people  committing a  crime                                                                    
thought   about  the   issue  -   they  were   not  thinking                                                                    
rationally. He spoke to the  misdemeanor component and asked                                                                    
about  a low  level crime  a  person could  be convicted  of                                                                    
where they would have to give the money back.                                                                                   
3:09:12 PM                                                                                                                    
Ms.  Meade answered  in  the affirmative  -  a person  would                                                                    
become ineligible  for a  third misdemeanor  including three                                                                    
instances of shoplifting.                                                                                                       
Representative   Kawasaki   MAINTAINED  his   OBJECTION   to                                                                    
Amendment 2 as amended.                                                                                                         
A roll call vote was taken on the motion.                                                                                       
IN FAVOR: Pruitt, Thompson, Tilton, Wilson                                                                                      
OPPOSED: Guttenberg,  Kawasaki, Ortiz, Gara,  Grenn, Foster,                                                                    
The MOTION to adopt Amendment 2 as amended FAILED (4/7).                                                                        
3:10:35 PM                                                                                                                    
Representative  Thompson  provided a  hypothetical  scenario                                                                    
related to Permanent Fund checks.                                                                                               
Ms. Race did not believe she could answer the question.                                                                         
Representative   Thompson  spoke   to   his  concern   about                                                                    
Ms.  Race  responded replied  that  it  did not  necessarily                                                                    
carry the same garnishment from year-to-year.                                                                                   
Representative  Thompson  asked if  a  person  were to  have                                                                    
their  conviction  reversed  whether   they  would  have  to                                                                    
collect their money.                                                                                                            
3:15:36 PM                                                                                                                    
Ms. Race  answered that it was  a question, but was  not the                                                                    
current process.                                                                                                                
Representative Thompson  asked if  the person would  have to                                                                    
reapply to be eligible.                                                                                                         
Ms.  Race answered  there  would  have to  be  some sort  of                                                                    
process like the one he mentioned.                                                                                              
Vice-Chair  Gara   explained  the   fiscal  note   from  the                                                                    
Department  of Revenue.  The  funds would  come  out of  the                                                                    
Dividend fund and.                                                                                                              
Co-Chair  Seaton  MOVED  to  REPORT  CSHB  127(FIN)  out  of                                                                    
committee   with   individual    recommendations   and   the                                                                    
accompanying fiscal note.                                                                                                       
CSHB  127 (FIN)  was REPORTED  out of  committee with  a "do                                                                    
pass" recommendation and with  one previously published zero                                                                    
fiscal note: FN1 (REV).                                                                                                         
3:17:50 PM                                                                                                                    
AT EASE                                                                                                                         
3:22:58 PM                                                                                                                    

Document Name Date/Time Subjects
HB155 Additional Document-AMHTFA Fact Sheet.pdf HFIN 4/13/2017 1:30:00 PM
HB 155
HB155 Additional Document-SEACC Comments on No Name Bay.pdf HFIN 4/13/2017 1:30:00 PM
HB 155
HB155 Invited Testimony-Wyn Menefee.pptx HFIN 4/13/2017 1:30:00 PM
HB 155
HB155 Letter of Comment-SEACC.pdf HFIN 4/13/2017 1:30:00 PM
HB 155
HB155 Additional Document-Maps as of 3.3.17.pdf HFIN 4/13/2017 1:30:00 PM
HB 155
HB155 Opposing Document-Doug Rhodes Letter.pdf HFIN 4/13/2017 1:30:00 PM
HB 155
HB155 Sectional Analysis 03.07.17.pdf HFIN 4/13/2017 1:30:00 PM
HB 155
HB155 Sponsor Statement 03.07.17.pdf HFIN 4/13/2017 1:30:00 PM
HB 155
HB155 Summary of Changes ver O to ver U.pdf HFIN 4/13/2017 1:30:00 PM
HB 155
HB155 Supporting Document-AFA Letter.pdf HFIN 4/13/2017 1:30:00 PM
HB 155
HB155 Supporting Document-AFA Response to SEACC.pdf HFIN 4/13/2017 1:30:00 PM
HB 155
HB155 Supporting Document-Bob Weinstein Letter.pdf HFIN 4/13/2017 1:30:00 PM
HB 155
HB155 Supporting Document-Federal Legislation.pdf HFIN 4/13/2017 1:30:00 PM
HB 155
HB155 Supporting Document-Letters Compiled.pdf HFIN 4/13/2017 1:30:00 PM
HB 155
HB 127 Amendment #1.pdf HFIN 4/13/2017 1:30:00 PM
HB 127
HB 47 - Amendment #1.pdf HFIN 4/13/2017 1:30:00 PM
HB 47
HB 127 - Amendments.pdf HFIN 4/13/2017 1:30:00 PM
HB 127
HB47 Actuarial Letter 3.16.17.pdf HFIN 4/13/2017 1:30:00 PM
HB 47