Legislature(2007 - 2008)HOUSE FINANCE 519

03/27/2007 01:30 PM FINANCE

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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
Moved CSHB 136(FIN) Out of Committee
Heard & Held
Scheduled But Not Heard
+ Bills Previously Heard/Scheduled TELECONFERENCED
Moved CSHB 19(FIN) Out of Committee
                  HOUSE FINANCE COMMITTEE                                                                                       
                       March 27, 2007                                                                                           
                         1:44 p.m.                                                                                              
CALL TO ORDER                                                                                                                 
Co-Chair Meyer called the House  Finance Committee meeting to                                                                   
order at 1:44:19 PM.                                                                                                          
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
Representative Mike Chenault, Co-Chair                                                                                          
Representative Kevin Meyer, Co-Chair                                                                                            
Representative Bill Stoltze, Vice-Chair                                                                                         
Representative Harry Crawford                                                                                                   
Representative Richard Foster                                                                                                   
Representative Les Gara                                                                                                         
Representative Mike Hawker                                                                                                      
Representative Reggie Joule                                                                                                     
Representative Mike Kelly                                                                                                       
Representative Mary Nelson                                                                                                      
Representative Bill Thomas, Jr.                                                                                                 
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
ALSO PRESENT                                                                                                                  
Michael  Pawlowski,  Staff,  Co-Chair  Meyer;  Ben  Mulligan,                                                                   
Staff,  Representative   Bill  Stoltz;  Representative   Paul                                                                   
Seaton; Representative   Bob Buch; Linda Gohl,  AARP, Capital                                                                   
City Task Force, Juneau                                                                                                         
PRESENT VIA TELECONFERENCE                                                                                                    
Dr.  Higgins,  Fairbanks;  Dr. Glenn  Martin,  Public  Health                                                                   
Dentist;  Royann  Royer,  Dental  Hygienist,  Chugiak;  David                                                                   
Logan,  Alaska Dental  Society, Juneau;  Mary Cerney,  Dental                                                                   
Hygienist; Dr. Mike Booth, Chugiak;  Jim Towle, Alaska Dental                                                                   
Society;  Rena Bower,  Alaska  Dental Hygienist  Association;                                                                   
Herb Simon, Nelchina; C.D. McCurry, Kenny Lake                                                                                  
HB 19     "An Act relating to ignition interlock limited                                                                        
          driver's license privileges."                                                                                         
          CSHB (19) was REPORTED  out of Committee with a "do                                                                   
          pass"  recommendation and  with a  new zero  fiscal                                                                   
          note  by  the  Department   of  Transportation  and                                                                   
          Public Facilities,  and with fiscal note  #2 by the                                                                   
          Department of Administration.                                                                                         
HB 136    "An Act relating to dental hygienists."                                                                               
          CSHB 136  (FIN) was REPORTED out of  Committee with                                                                   
          "no  recommendation" and  with a new  indeterminate                                                                   
          fiscal   note  by  the   Department  of   Commerce,                                                                   
          Community and Economic Development.                                                                                   
HB 137    "An   Act  amending   the   requirements  for   the                                                                   
          identification  card   needed  for  sport  fishing,                                                                   
          hunting,   and  trapping   without  a  license   by                                                                   
          residents who are 60 years of age or more."                                                                           
          CSHB 137 (RES) was heard  and HELD in Committee for                                                                   
          further consideration.                                                                                                
HB 168    "An Act  authorizing two exchanges of  land between                                                                   
          the Alaska Railroad  Corporation and the Department                                                                   
          of  Transportation   and  Public   Facilities;  and                                                                   
          providing for an effective date."                                                                                     
          HB 168 was scheduled but not heard.                                                                                   
1:44:53 PM                                                                                                                    
HOUSE BILL NO. 19                                                                                                             
     "An Act relating to ignition interlock limited driver's                                                                    
     license privileges."                                                                                                       
1:45:00 PM                                                                                                                    
Vice Chair  Stoltze MOVED to ADOPT  the work draft to  HB 19,                                                                   
labeled  25-LS0133\N,  Luckhaupt, 3/20/07.    There being  NO                                                                   
OBJECTION, it was so ordered.                                                                                                   
MICHAEL  PAWLOWSKI,  STAFF,  CO-CHAIR  MEYER,  explained  the                                                                   
changes in  the new CS.   The first technical change  on page                                                                   
1,  line  13,  clarifies  language.   The  second  change  in                                                                   
Section 2 (d),  addresses the concern about how  to deal with                                                                   
a  person who  lacks access  yet  wants to  get an  interlock                                                                   
device installed.   This section provides that  such a person                                                                   
can apply to the  court for the old type of  limited license.                                                                   
It removes DMV's authority to grant a limited license.                                                                          
Mr.  Pawlowski  explained  the  change  in Section  3.    The                                                                   
primary change  is on page  4, lines  4-6, where the  type of                                                                   
person  qualified to  request a limited  license is  changed.                                                                   
It eliminates the  person who is guilty of refusal  to take a                                                                   
breathalyzer test.   Page 4, lines  24-30, adds items  to the                                                                   
application  process for  a limited license.   These  changes                                                                   
allow that  someone who  is eligible to  apply for  a limited                                                                   
license  today is  also  eligible to  apply  for an  ignition                                                                   
interlock device.                                                                                                               
1:49:01 PM                                                                                                                    
Mr. Pawlowski  summarized  that the purpose  of the  ignition                                                                   
interlock device is to keep a person from re-offending.                                                                         
Co-Chair Meyer asked  if a person convicted for  a felony DUI                                                                   
would be  eligible for the  device.  Mr. Pawlowski  clarified                                                                   
that they  could not under  current statute, and  they cannot                                                                   
under CSHB 19 (FIN).                                                                                                            
Mr.  Pawlowski referred  to  the letter  from  DPS about  the                                                                   
reduction  of repeat  DWI's with  the use of  this device  in                                                                   
Canada (copy on file.)                                                                                                          
1:50:54 PM                                                                                                                    
Representative  Hawker asked  if  there is  a  change to  the                                                                   
fiscal  note.    Mr. Pawlowski  reported  that  DMV  did  not                                                                   
anticipate higher  costs because the new CS  would expand the                                                                   
number of persons qualifying for a limited license.                                                                             
Representative Crawford  thought the original version  of the                                                                   
bill was  a better bill.   He wondered about  safeguards that                                                                   
would prevent  misuse of the  device.  Mr. Pawlowski  related                                                                   
several scenarios.   He described  how the device  works when                                                                   
someone  impaired  tries  to   drive.    He  noted  that  new                                                                   
technologies are  coming up with new ways to  prevent misuse.                                                                   
He pointed out that the devices  are fairly tamper resistant.                                                                   
Co-Chair Meyer added  that currently there are  abuses of the                                                                   
system.   Representative  Crawford agreed  with the  ideas in                                                                   
the bill, but liked the original bill better.                                                                                   
1:56:29 PM                                                                                                                    
Representative  Gara pointed  out  that this  version of  the                                                                   
bill is  strong and  includes two  requested provisions.   He                                                                   
asked  if the  language is  acceptable  to the  courts.   Mr.                                                                   
Pawlowski indicated that it was.                                                                                                
Representative  Gara summarized  the two  parts of the  bill.                                                                   
One part  allows for the  interlock device while  the license                                                                   
is suspended.   The  second provision  allows for the  device                                                                   
during probation.   He spoke in favor of the  revised version                                                                   
of  the bill,  including limiting  the  device to  non-felony                                                                   
1:59:20 PM                                                                                                                    
Representative  Joule asked for  data on  the success  of the                                                                   
device  in  Canada.   Mr.  Pawlowski  read,  "In  neighboring                                                                   
Canada,   one   province  that   has   implemented   ignition                                                                   
interlocks is showing  a reduction in the repeat  DWI rate by                                                                   
80% during the  first 12 months for first-time  offenders and                                                                   
by 74%  during the first  24 months among repeat  offenders."                                                                   
Representative Joule  recalled a personal story  and spoke in                                                                   
favor of the bill.                                                                                                              
Mr. Pawlowski  pointed  out that motorcycles  are covered  on                                                                   
page 2, Section 2.                                                                                                              
2:01:29 PM                                                                                                                    
Representative  Gara MOVED  to REPORT  CSHB 19  (FIN) out  of                                                                   
committee   with    individual   recommendations    and   the                                                                   
accompanying fiscal notes.  There  being NO OBJECTION, it was                                                                   
so ordered.                                                                                                                     
CSHB (19)  was REPORTED  out of  Committee  with a "do  pass"                                                                   
recommendation  and  with  a  new zero  fiscal  note  by  the                                                                   
Department of Transportation and  Public Facilities, and with                                                                   
fiscal note #2 by the Administration.                                                                                           
2:02:12 PM                                                                                                                    
HOUSE BILL NO. 136                                                                                                            
     "An Act relating to dental hygienists."                                                                                    
Vice Chair Stoltze  MOVED to ADOPT the work draft  to HB 136,                                                                   
labeled  25-LS0364\K,   Bullard,  3/26/07.  There   being  NO                                                                   
OBJECTION, it was so ordered.                                                                                                   
Vice Chair  Stoltze noted that  this is the third  reading of                                                                   
the bill.   It is a continuing  effort for access  for health                                                                   
services for Alaska, especially  underserved areas.  He spoke                                                                   
of the  need for allowing  dental hygienists to  perform more                                                                   
services.   He  referred to  letters of  support included  in                                                                   
members' packets.                                                                                                               
2:05:09 PM                                                                                                                    
BEN MULLIGAN,  STAFF, REPRESENTATIVE  STOLTZE, explained  the                                                                   
three provisions of  the bill.  It would allow  hygienists to                                                                   
obtain  a restorative  function  license  endorsement.   This                                                                   
would allow  a dental  hygienist to  place "fillings"  into a                                                                   
cavity  prepared by  a  dentist.   It  would  allow a  dental                                                                   
hygienist  to   administer  local  anesthetic   agents  under                                                                   
general supervision of a dentist.   The bill would also allow                                                                   
hygienists  and  dentists  to   enter  into  a  collaborative                                                                   
agreement,  which  would  allow  the  hygienists  to  perform                                                                   
certain duties unsupervised.                                                                                                    
Mr. Mulligan  related the changes  from the original  version                                                                   
of  the bill.   On  page  1, line  14,  the jurisdiction  was                                                                   
clarified.   Page 3, line 2,  references the statute  where a                                                                   
dentist is  licensed.  Line 13  on page 3 is  a clarification                                                                   
of terminology.  Line 26 on page  3 adds a new subsection (d)                                                                   
in  order  to  clarify  the  number   of  agreements  between                                                                   
dentists and hygienists.                                                                                                        
2:08:25 PM                                                                                                                    
Representative   Crawford   inquired   about   the   training                                                                   
necessary for hygienists to administer  radiographs.  He also                                                                   
wondered about  follow-up procedures  by a dentist  after the                                                                   
hygienists  have done  their  work.   His  concern was  about                                                                   
having  less-qualified health  care  for rural  areas due  to                                                                   
this bill.                                                                                                                      
2:10:53 PM                                                                                                                    
Vice  Chair  Stoltze recalled  a  past  issue with  a  dental                                                                   
therapist,  not a  dental hygienist.    He  explained that  a                                                                   
dental assistant does not have  a licensing board or training                                                                   
requirements.    Representative  Crawford thought  that  past                                                                   
opposition  was to  a dental  therapist.   He questioned  the                                                                   
amount  of  training for  each  level.   Vice  Chair  Stoltze                                                                   
thought there were two separate issues.                                                                                         
Mr. Mulligan related the amount  of training needed to become                                                                   
a dental  hygienist.  Representative  Crawford asked  if they                                                                   
can take x-rays.  Mr. Mulligan  deferred to others to answer.                                                                   
Representative  Foster said  Indian  Health Service  dentists                                                                   
used to  serve the rural areas  and were not licensed  by the                                                                   
2:15:38 PM                                                                                                                    
Representative  Nelson explained  what federal dental  health                                                                   
aids are.   They  are studying  in New  Zealand now  and will                                                                   
return to serve rural communities  in areas such as education                                                                   
and diet.   She emphasized  the void  in dental providers  in                                                                   
rural areas.  She noted broad support for dental providers.                                                                     
Representative  Gara asked for  clarification of  the various                                                                   
categories of aids  and providers.  He questioned  the amount                                                                   
of x-ray training a hygienist has.                                                                                              
Vice  Chair Stoltze  voiced  a  concern about  public  health                                                                   
issues.   In his experience  a dentist  has not been  present                                                                   
when x-rays were taken.                                                                                                         
2:20:38 PM                                                                                                                    
ROYANN   ROYER,  DENTAL   HYGIENIST,   CHUGIAK,  shared   her                                                                   
educational experience as a dental  hygienist.  She addressed                                                                   
the restorative  functions performed  by a dental  hygienist,                                                                   
including training  and personal  experience.  She  described                                                                   
how a  hygienist would  work together  with  a dentist.   She                                                                   
spoke about the  collaborative agreement, which  would have a                                                                   
great impact on rural dental services,  as well as in nursing                                                                   
homes and other facilities.                                                                                                     
2:25:30 PM                                                                                                                    
Ms. Royer maintained  that currently dental  hygienists would                                                                   
take  advantage of  providing  services on  a limited  basis.                                                                   
She addressed  the local anesthesia provision.   Forty states                                                                   
have  incorporated this  provision  without any  disciplinary                                                                   
action.    She  reported  that the  Alaska  Board  of  Dental                                                                   
Examiners support  the bill.   The goal is to  provide access                                                                   
to quality dental care.  She spoke in favor of HB 136.                                                                          
2:29:06 PM                                                                                                                    
Representative   Gara   asked   how  many   states   have   a                                                                   
collaborative  agreement.   Ms.  Royer thought  about 10  do.                                                                   
Representative Gara asked what  training a hygienist gets for                                                                   
radiology  and  local anesthesia.    Ms. Royer  replied  that                                                                   
there is a one semester course  on radiology followed by four                                                                   
clinical  training  semesters.       Local  anesthesia  is  a                                                                   
separate  licensing  requirement  with written  and  clinical                                                                   
exams.  In  response to a question from  Representative Gara,                                                                   
Ms. Royer clarified how the instruction  and testing is done.                                                                   
2:31:49 PM                                                                                                                    
DR.  HIGGINS,  FAIRBANKS,  addressed  the  "access  of  care"                                                                   
issue.  He noted that under the  CHAP program, hygienists can                                                                   
already  perform cleanings  in rural  areas.   In Oregon  the                                                                   
program has been a success.  He  questioned if the bill would                                                                   
change  the  access  problem.   He  related  that  hygienists                                                                   
already  spend  their  time cleaning  teeth.    He  suggested                                                                   
expanding the number  of dental auxiliaries.   He thought the                                                                   
bill would be helpful, but does  not address the real problem                                                                   
of lack of hygienists.                                                                                                          
Representative Crawford asked  if the collaborative agreement                                                                   
would  make health  care  cheaper.   Dr.  Higgins thought  it                                                                   
would  cost   more  because   hygienists'  duties   would  be                                                                   
expanded.  In order  to see more patients, the  duties of the                                                                   
auxiliaries would have to be expanded.                                                                                          
2:40:40 PM                                                                                                                    
Representative Crawford asked  if the collaborative agreement                                                                   
would allow  hygienists to travel  to the villages  without a                                                                   
dentist.  Dr.  Higgins replied that the CHAPS  program should                                                                   
be doing  that already.   He questioned  how many  hygienists                                                                   
would be willing to go out alone.                                                                                               
Vice  Chair  Stoltze  asked  for  the  definition  of  dental                                                                   
auxiliary.   Dr. Higgins  replied that  they are  uncertified                                                                   
assistants,  trained in occlusions.   They  would need  to be                                                                   
certified and pass the boards.                                                                                                  
Representative  Gara asked  if Dr. Higgins'  concern  is that                                                                   
the bill would not expand treatment,  but not with the safety                                                                   
of service  delivery.   Dr. Higgins  repeated that  this bill                                                                   
trains the wrong workforce and  should be training assistants                                                                   
rather than hygienists.                                                                                                         
2:45:24 PM                                                                                                                    
DR.  GLENN MARTIN,  PUBLIC HEALTH  DENTIST,  read a  prepared                                                                   
statement.  He  described his job experience  in traveling to                                                                   
62 villages.   He  spoke in strong  support for  HB 136.   He                                                                   
spoke in favor of collaborative  agreements and described how                                                                   
that would result in better dental care in villages.                                                                            
2:48:13 PM                                                                                                                    
DR. DAVID  LOGAN, ALASKA DENTAL  SOCIETY, JUNEAU,  noted that                                                                   
the  Alaska Dental  Society is  in  favor of  CSHB 136  (FIN)                                                                   
except  for  in  the collaborative  agreement  section.    He                                                                   
referred to page  3, line 22, which currently  reads "without                                                                   
the dentist's  diagnosis and treatment plan  unless otherwise                                                                   
specified in  the collaborative agreement  or in (a)  of this                                                                   
section".   He preferred  it to say  "prior to the  dentist's                                                                   
diagnosis and with a treatment  plan completed within a year"                                                                   
to  insure  continuation   of  care  and  a   full  range  of                                                                   
Representative Gara  asked if a  hygienist can do  a cleaning                                                                   
now  without a  dentist's  diagnosis.   Dr.  Logan said  they                                                                   
cannot.  All  treatment requires a dentist's  diagnosis and a                                                                   
treatment  plan.    Representative   Gara  thought  that  was                                                                   
excessive.   Dr.  Logan  agreed.   He  thought the  hygienist                                                                   
should be able to work prior to  a dentist's diagnosis and/or                                                                   
treatment  plan.    He  emphasized   the  importance  of  the                                                                   
completion of the treatment plan.                                                                                               
2:52:12 PM                                                                                                                    
MARY CERNEY,  DENTAL HYGIENIST,  testified in support  of the                                                                   
legislation   and   provided    information   regarding   the                                                                   
legislation.   She  observed that  a restorative  endorsement                                                                   
would be  a separate endorsement.   She detailed  restorative                                                                   
care that would  be given.  The collaborative  practice would                                                                   
provide  care  that  would  occur   prior  to  the  dentist's                                                                   
treatment  plan,  not  in  lieu  of a  plan.    Every  dental                                                                   
hygienist    receives   a    Registered   Dental    Hygienist                                                                   
certificate, which  compares to a RN degree.   She maintained                                                                   
that  the legislation  would result  in  additional care  and                                                                   
noted  the  backlog  in  some   areas.    She  reported  that                                                                   
hygienists had  to have a dentist  do an exam on  each person                                                                   
before  a cleaning  could be  given.   The legislation  would                                                                   
improve  health care  for the  whole  state, while  providing                                                                   
In  response  to  a question  by  Representative  Kelly,  Ms.                                                                   
Cerney  noted that  she  supports the  committee  substitute.                                                                   
She  maintained that  there is  excellent  training for  both                                                                   
radiology and radiography.                                                                                                      
3:00:27 PM                                                                                                                    
DR.  MIKE  BOOTH,  CHUGIAK,  testified   in  support  of  the                                                                   
legislation.   He spoke  in support  of promoting  hygienists                                                                   
into rural areas.   He maintained that local  anesthesia is a                                                                   
drug, which can  cause side effects.  He wanted  to know that                                                                   
hygienist  were  capable  of dealing  with  conditions  which                                                                   
could occur with the use of anesthesia.                                                                                         
3:03:32 PM                                                                                                                    
JIM TOWLE, ALASKA  DENTAL SOCIETY, informed the  committee of                                                                   
his group's  efforts to work on  the bill.  He noted  that he                                                                   
had provided  the committee  with a  list of amendments  that                                                                   
they  would like  to see  in the  bill  (copy on  file.)   He                                                                   
requested  that  safeguards be  included  with  collaborative                                                                   
3:05:20 PM                                                                                                                    
RENA BOWER,  ALASKA DENTAL  HYGIENIST ASSOCIATION,  testified                                                                   
in  support of  the legislation  and  maintained that  dental                                                                   
hygienists  are  highly  trained  in  radiology.    Radiology                                                                   
equipment  is maintained  and monitored  by the  state.   She                                                                   
hoped that the legislation would  encourage students in rural                                                                   
areas  to go  into the  field.   She  spoke in  favor of  the                                                                   
collaborative  agreement and  the ability  for hygienists  to                                                                   
administer anesthesia.                                                                                                          
3:10:14 PM                                                                                                                    
LINDA GOHL, AARP, CAPITAL CITY  TASK FORCE, JUNEAU, testified                                                                   
in  support  of  the legislation.    She  stressed  that  the                                                                   
legislation  would  increase  access  and  pointed  out  that                                                                   
Alaska's  dental care  is the  most expensive  in the  United                                                                   
Vice Chair Stoltze  acknowledged the issue of  anesthesia and                                                                   
stated that he would look into it.                                                                                              
Representative  Hawker referred  to  a letter  from James  R.                                                                   
Towle with a concern about how  the local anesthesia would be                                                                   
administered.  He requested more information about this.                                                                        
Co-Chair Meyer  noted that that  concern would be  dealt with                                                                   
before the  bill goes to the  House Floor.  He  mentioned the                                                                   
new indeterminate fiscal note that accompanies the bill.                                                                        
3:16:22 PM                                                                                                                    
Representative Foster  MOVED to REPORT CSHB 136  (FIN) out of                                                                   
committee   with    individual   recommendations    and   the                                                                   
accompanying fiscal  note.  There being NO  OBJECTION, it was                                                                   
so ordered.                                                                                                                     
CSHB  136  (FIN)  was REPORTED  out  of  Committee  with  "no                                                                   
recommendation" and  with a new indeterminate  fiscal note by                                                                   
the   Department   of  Commerce,   Community   and   Economic                                                                   
3:16:59 PM                                                                                                                    
HOUSE BILL NO. 137                                                                                                            
     "An    Act   amending   the    requirements    for   the                                                                   
     identification  card needed for sport  fishing, hunting,                                                                   
     and trapping  without a license by residents  who are 60                                                                   
     years of age or more."                                                                                                     
REPRESENTATIVE  PAUL SEATON, sponsor,  explained that  HB 137                                                                   
amends  the  requirements for  the  permanent  identification                                                                   
card (PID) that would allow residents  who are 60 and over to                                                                   
fish and hunt.  The House Resources  Committee version of the                                                                   
bill adds  a provision  to "grandfather  in" the current  PID                                                                   
Representative Seaton explained  that a problem arose because                                                                   
there was  no way to determine  if the card-holding  resident                                                                   
still lived  in Alaska.  The  bill provides that  the license                                                                   
would  need  to be  renewed  after  three years  after  being                                                                   
checked by the Permanent Fund  Dividend Division.  The $2,000                                                                   
fiscal note by the Department  of Fish and Game is to pay for                                                                   
the notices for license renewals.   There is also a provision                                                                   
for those who chose  not to get a permanent fund  to obtain a                                                                   
3:20:32 PM                                                                                                                    
Representative  Seaton  referred  to enclosures  in  members'                                                                   
packets, which  show that there have been  enforcement issues                                                                   
in the past.    He related  that more PID's have  been issued                                                                   
than there are qualifying Alaskans.   He emphasized that this                                                                   
license is for Alaskan seniors, not non-residents.                                                                              
Co-Chair  Chenault  questioned  the  definition  of  PID  and                                                                   
wondered  what   they  look  like.    Representative   Seaton                                                                   
referred to  a copy of the PID  in the members' packets.   He                                                                   
explained  the   requirements  on  the  card.     He  related                                                                   
enforcement difficulties.                                                                                                       
3:26:07 PM                                                                                                                    
Representative  Hawker  thought  the bill  would  create  two                                                                   
classes of ID cards, the old ones  and the new 3-year renewal                                                                   
ones.    Representative   Seaton  noted  the   legal  opinion                                                                   
regarding  that.   Representative Hawker  suggested a  sunset                                                                   
for  the first  category  of  cards.   Representative  Seaton                                                                   
reported  that  there  is  no way  to  notify  those  people.                                                                   
Legislative  legal suggested  that there  are no  fundamental                                                                   
rights   lost,    and   therefore    the   change    is   not                                                                   
Representative     Hawker    read    the     definition    of                                                                   
"grandfathering" and agreed with that policy direction.                                                                         
3:30:30 PM                                                                                                                    
HERB SIMON,  NELCHINA, testified  as a disgruntled  vendor of                                                                   
Fish and Game Licenses  in favor of HB 137.   He spoke of the                                                                   
abuses  of the  license.   He  spoke  of the  differences  in                                                                   
rights of  residents vs. non-residents.   He suggested  a way                                                                   
to renew current PID holders by attaching a sticker.                                                                            
3:35:43 PM                                                                                                                    
Representative  Hawker thanked Mr.  Simon for his  testimony.                                                                   
He  agreed  with  the  idea  to   renew  current  PID's,  but                                                                   
suggested  it would be  "annoying and  degrading" to  have to                                                                   
update the PID.  He asked for Mr. Simon's opinion.                                                                              
Mr. Simon replied  that he does not know of  anyone who would                                                                   
object to the renewal requirement.                                                                                              
3:38:31 PM                                                                                                                    
Representative   Thomas  asked  if   the  vendors   have  the                                                                   
authority to  not sell a license  if the driver's  license is                                                                   
out-of-state.   Mr. Simon replied  that the vendors  tired of                                                                   
dealing  with it  and  do not  have  the authority  to  deny.                                                                   
Representative  Thomas  suggested   giving  the  vendors  the                                                                   
authority to destroy a false ID.   Mr. Simon thought it would                                                                   
complicate a vendor's position and would not work.                                                                              
3:42:03 PM                                                                                                                    
C.D.  MCCURRY,   KENNY  LAKE,  asked  about   the  185  days'                                                                   
requirement for proof of residency.   He wondered about fraud                                                                   
possibilities surrounding  the issue.  Representative  Seaton                                                                   
addressed PFD  fraud and maintained  it is a  separate issue.                                                                   
He  suggested  people   turn  in  reports  of   fraud.    The                                                                   
identification cards  will not be offered by  vendors, but by                                                                   
the Fish and Game local field office.                                                                                           
Representative  Hawker suggested  adding a  sunset clause  to                                                                   
existing  PID's.   Representative Seaton  replied that  there                                                                   
was a  concern about  people having  to reapply  for a  once-                                                                   
termed  permanent card.    He spoke  of  the difficulties  of                                                                   
finding  current cardholders.    He said  he is  open to  the                                                                   
3:48:51 PM                                                                                                                    
Representative Thomas  asked if a vendor could  destroy cards                                                                   
of people  who are abusing the  PID cards and driving  with a                                                                   
license  from  another  state.   Representative  Seaton  said                                                                   
there is nothing  illegal about not having a  current license                                                                   
plate, so it would  be hard to enforce.  There  are residency                                                                   
issues that complicate the matter.                                                                                              
3:51:26 PM                                                                                                                    
HB  137  was   heard  and  HELD  in  Committee   for  further                                                                   
The meeting was adjourned at 3:51 PM.                                                                                           

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