Legislature(2017 - 2018)BARNES 124

02/07/2017 08:00 AM COMMUNITY & REGIONAL AFFAIRS

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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ HB 80 MUNI ENERGY IMPROVEMNT:ASSESSMNTS/BONDS TELECONFERENCED
Moved CSHB 80(ENE) Out of Committee
-- Public Testimony <Time Limit May Be Set> --
*+ HB 85 MUNICIPAL LAND SELECTIONS: PETERSBURG TELECONFERENCED
Moved HB 85 Out of Committee
-- Public Testimony <Time Limit May Be Set> --
**Streamed live on AKL.tv**
          HB 85-MUNICIPAL LAND SELECTIONS: PETERSBURG                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
                 [Contains discussion of SB 28]                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
9:01:57 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR PARISH announced  that the final order  of business would                                                              
be HOUSE BILL NO.  85, "An Act relating to the  general grant land                                                              
entitlement  for  the Petersburg  Borough;  and providing  for  an                                                              
effective date."                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER  began a motion at the  chair's request to                                                              
bring  HB  85  before the  committee;  [however,  the  motion  was                                                              
subsequently deemed unnecessary].                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
9:02:25 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
The committee took an at-ease from 9:02 a.m. to 9:03 a.m.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
9:03:19 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR PARISH [confirmed that before the committee was HB 85].                                                                
                                                                                                                                
9:03:38 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
JONATHAN  KREISS-TOMKINS,  Alaska   State  Legislature,  as  prime                                                              
sponsor, introduced HB  85.  He stated that HB 85  has a companion                                                              
bill in  the Senate.   He noted that as  part of the  process that                                                              
made  Petersburg  a  borough,  it  was  allowed  to  select  land.                                                              
Because  of  idiosyncrasies with  the  land  base from  which  the                                                              
borough  is  allowed to  select,  there  is  a minimal  amount  of                                                              
acreage  available.   He explained  that HB  85 would  recalibrate                                                              
the acreage  to the  historic norm that  newly formed  boroughs in                                                              
the  past in  Alaska have  been  able to  select.   Representative                                                              
Kreiss-Tomkins  noted  that  he and  Representative  Talerico  had                                                              
held a conversation  about the issue the day before  and learned a                                                              
lot about the  process.  He deferred  to his staff to  present the                                                              
bill in more detail.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
9:05:46 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
BARETT  WILBER,  Staff,  Representative  Jonathan  Kreiss-Tomkins,                                                              
Alaska  State   Legislature,   presented  HB   85  on  behalf   of                                                              
Representative  Kreiss-Tomkins, prime sponsor.   She  conveyed the                                                              
information from  the sponsor's  statement, which read  as follows                                                              
[original punctuation provided]:                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     HB  85 would  allow  the  Petersburg Borough  to  select                                                                   
     14,666 acres  of land as part of their  land entitlement                                                                   
     for incorporating into a borough.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     The City of  Petersburg dissolved in 2013  to become the                                                                   
     Petersburg Borough.  Under AS 29.65.050, the  Borough is                                                                   
     entitled  to  claim  a  land grant  from  the  state:  a                                                                   
     percentage  of  the vacant,  unappropriated,  unreserved                                                                   
     land  (as   calculated  by  the  Alaska   Department  of                                                                   
     Natural  Resources), minus  land which  belonged to  the                                                                   
     old city  and State land  conveyed to the University  of                                                                   
     Alaska,  Alaska  Mental Health  Trust,  Southeast  State                                                                   
     Forest, and private ownership.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     This  leaves Petersburg  with  only  1,438.53 acres,  or                                                                   
     .08% of  their actual Borough  land area, which  is well                                                                   
     below  the  average  of  other   municipalities  and  is                                                                   
     insufficient   to   meet  the   borough's   development,                                                                   
     economic, cultural, and resource needs.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     Boroughs  in Alaska  typically  request additional  land                                                                   
     from  the legislature  by  amending  AS 29.65.010  on  a                                                                   
     case  by  case  basis, providing  a  specific  date  and                                                                   
     amount of  land for  a newly incorporated  municipality.                                                                   
     Fourteen such  land grants  have been given  to boroughs                                                                   
     across the state since 1990.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     Petersburg  calculated   the  average  amount   of  land                                                                   
     granted   through  legislation   to   new  boroughs   in                                                                   
     proportion to  their size: on average,  they've received                                                                   
     .79%  of their  total  land base  from  the state.  This                                                                   
     bill   would   give   Petersburg    a   reasonable   and                                                                   
     proportionate  amount   based  on  their   size:  14,666                                                                   
     acres.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MS.  WILBUR  noted  that  new  boroughs  have  gone  through  this                                                              
process  14  times  wherein  they  have  edited  land  entitlement                                                              
grants  through   statute,   and  that  is   what  Petersburg   is                                                              
attempting to do right now.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
9:07:27 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SADDLER  asked   the  bill  sponsor  to  cite  the                                                              
statute that  pertains to the awarding  of land to a  newly formed                                                              
borough.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
9:07:35 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  KREISS-TOMKINS  deferred  to  Ms.  Wilbur  or  the                                                              
Department of Natural Resources.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
9:08:27 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MARTY  PARSONS,  Deputy  Director,  Central  Office,  Division  of                                                              
Mining, Land  and Water,  Department of  Natural Resources  (DNR),                                                              
told  Representative  Saddler  that   the  particular  statute  he                                                              
sought  is AS  29.65.030,  which established  that  10 percent  of                                                              
vacant, unappropriated,  unreserved land  be available to  a newly                                                              
formed  municipality  or borough  to  select  to create  its  land                                                              
entitlement.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
9:09:02 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SADDLER, regarding  "historic norms"  and the  use                                                              
of  term  "traditionally,"  asked  if those  standards  appear  in                                                              
statute   or  "any   place  else"   or  is   just  "a   post-facto                                                              
construction."                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  KREISS-TOMKINS   mentioned  past   legislation  of                                                              
former Representative  Peggy Wilson  from Wrangell,  Alaska, which                                                              
he  offered his  understanding calibrated  the  7.8 percentage  of                                                              
land that  a borough or municipality  could select.   He expressed                                                              
that  limiting a  small  percentage  of land  to  boroughs may  be                                                              
taking  away  the  incentive  of   local  governments  to  create,                                                              
because "they  wouldn't have  a land base  from which to  work and                                                              
offer the local control that helps them function."                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SADDLER  asked  if  - since  there  have  been  14                                                              
formed  municipalities or  boroughs that  considered it  necessary                                                              
to get an  additional land selection  - the bill sponsor  had ever                                                              
considered  changing the formula  to avoid  the problem  of having                                                              
the formulaic allocation of land be di minimus.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  KREISS-TOMKINS answered  that  he generally  finds                                                              
an appeal to changing  a system to make it more  functional rather                                                              
than addressing  a series of stopgap  solutions; at the  same time                                                              
he  indicated he  may proceed  cautiously.   He suggested  perhaps                                                              
"that  could be  pursued  in parallel."   He  stated  that he  was                                                              
giving his  best effort  to accelerate  the Petersburg  issue, but                                                              
did  not  think  it  should  be   exclusive  of  a  more  holistic                                                              
solution.   He expressed  willingness to  confer with  the members                                                              
of the committee toward that end.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SADDLER indicated  there  was a  request from  the                                                              
Nikiski Borough in the works, as well as "other things."                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
9:12:57 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SADDLER  asked  what  the  Borough  of  Petersburg                                                              
would do with land that would help support its economy.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
9:13:26 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KREISS-TOMKINS  deferred to representatives  of the                                                              
Borough of  Petersburg.  Notwithstanding  that, he  proffered that                                                              
the  community  has  a keen  interest  in  developing  value-added                                                              
industry with  seafood and  marine services.   He said there  is a                                                              
high  cost of  living,  partly because  of  a  limited land  base,                                                              
which makes it difficult to develop new housing.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
9:14:44 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  RAUSCHER   asked,  "This  went   through  Boundary                                                              
Commission, right?"                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   KREISS-TOMKINS  offered   his  belief   that  the                                                              
formation  of the  Petersburg  Borough did  go  through the  local                                                              
boundary commission.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
9:15:03 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR PARISH opened public testimony on HB 85.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
9:15:21 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MARK JENSEN, Mayor,  related that the Petersburg  Borough Assembly                                                              
had passed Resolution  2017-02, included in the  committee packet,                                                              
which  supports  HB  85  and  its  companion  bill,  SB  28.    He                                                              
confirmed that  the residents of  Petersburg had gone  through the                                                              
local boundary commission  process to form a borough  in 2013.  He                                                              
said the borough  is asking for the legislature's  support to help                                                              
Petersburg   acquire  up   to  14,666  extra   acres  within   its                                                              
boundaries.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
9:16:51 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SADDLER offered  his understanding  that about  96                                                              
percent of  the land  encompassed by  the borough's boundaries  is                                                              
[Tongass] National Forest land.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MAYOR JENSEN confirmed that is correct.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SADDLER  stated that in  general the large  area of                                                              
the  Tongass National  Forest puts  a cap  on private  development                                                              
throughout  Southeast Alaska.    He asked  Mayor  Jensen, "So,  to                                                              
further push the  point, if there were a little  bit less national                                                              
forest  in  your  borough  areas,  would that  open  up  land  for                                                              
development  that  could  benefit  the people  of  the  Petersburg                                                              
region?"                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MAYOR JENSEN answered that he imagines so.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
9:18:32 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
LIZ CABRERA,  Director, Community  Development, Petersburg  City &                                                              
Borough,  read  her  written  testimony,  which  read  as  follows                                                              
[original punctuation provided, with some formatting changes]:                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     HB  85   increases  the  general  land   entitlement  of                                                                   
     Alaska's  newest borough, Petersburg,  to be  comparable                                                                   
     to the land  entitlement received by all  other boroughs                                                                   
     in the state.  An amount equal to approximately  .79% of                                                                   
     a borough's  land mass,  which in  Petersburg's case  is                                                                   
     14,666 acres.  For those of you who are  unfamiliar with                                                                   
     our  community, the  Petersburg  Borough  is located  in                                                                   
     central  Southeast  Alaska and  encompasses  an area  of                                                                   
     3,800  square  miles  of land  and  sea.  The  borough's                                                                   
     population  center is  located  on the  northern tip  of                                                                   
     Mitkof Island,  which is home to a diverse  and prolific                                                                   
     commercial  fishing   fleet  and  three   major  seafood                                                                   
     processing facilities.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     In 2013,  the residents  of Petersburg  voted to  form a                                                                   
     borough    for a number  of reasons, including  having a                                                                   
     greater  say on land  use decisions  in our  surrounding                                                                   
     area, having  an opportunity  to increase our  municipal                                                                   
     land base, and  many also felt it was important  for all                                                                   
     area  residents to  support  our school  system  through                                                                   
     local taxes.   About 12 months after  borough formation,                                                                   
     Petersburg  received a  general  land grant  entitlement                                                                   
     certification   from  the   state  indicating  we   were                                                                   
     entitled to  1,896 acres under  AS 29.65.010.   However,                                                                   
     this  amount was  reduced by  the  457.47 acres  already                                                                   
     received  by   the  City  of  Petersburg,   even  though                                                                   
     certain   tracts  of   the   City's   457.47  acres   is                                                                   
     restricted  from  development  and  only  available  for                                                                   
     public,   charitable,  or   recreational  use.     After                                                                   
     deducting   the  457.47   acres,   the  Borough's   land                                                                   
     entitlement was  1,438.53 acres.  An area  roughly 1/3rd                                                                   
     the size of the Anchorage International Airport.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     In  making  this  calculation,   DNR  uses  a  statutory                                                                   
     formula    a  municipality  is entitled  to  10% of  VUU                                                                   
     land  within its boundaries.   The  lands available  for                                                                   
     selection   are   designated    as   VUU   or   "vacant,                                                                   
     unappropriated  and  unreserved" land  by  the State  of                                                                   
     Alaska.    These  lands  are  either  "unclassified"  or                                                                   
     classified   as   "agricultural,   grazing,   materials,                                                                   
     public    recreation,    settlement,     and    resource                                                                   
     management"  but for  the most part  no development  has                                                                   
     occurred on any of the VUU lands.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     You  may  wonder  why  we received  such  a  small  land                                                                   
     entitlement  to  begin  with.    The  majority  of  land                                                                   
     within  the  borough,  over   96%,  is  managed  by  the                                                                   
     federal government  as the Tongass National  Forest.  Of                                                                   
     the  non-federal  lands  within the  borough,  1.73%  is                                                                   
     owned by  the Goldbelt Corporation,  1.34% by  the State                                                                   
     of Alaska,  and .4%  by the  Alaska Mental Health  Trust                                                                   
     and  University  of Alaska.    Only  .3% is  in  private                                                                   
     ownership   and   a   mere   .04%  is   owned   by   the                                                                   
     municipality.   When  DNR applied  the land  entitlement                                                                   
     formula  to the Petersburg  Borough,  only a very  small                                                                   
     amount of land remained in VUU status.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     As  we began  to evaluate  our  potential selection,  we                                                                   
     realized that  our entitlement wasn't adequate  for what                                                                   
     we were  hoping to  accomplish and  many other  boroughs                                                                   
     also  received  small land  entitlements  initially  and                                                                   
     then   were  able   to   increase  these   through   the                                                                   
     legislature.   You'll note in  HB 85 that Petersburg  is                                                                   
     listed as  the 16th  borough, so 15  boroughs out  of 18                                                                   
     boroughs   have   received    an   increase   in   their                                                                   
     entitlement  through the legislature.   The most  recent                                                                   
     example  was  in  2010 when  both  Wrangell  and  Haines                                                                   
     received additional acreage.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
9:22:45 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. CABRERA continued reading from her written testimony, the                                                                   
remainder of which read as follows [original punctuation                                                                        
provided, with some formatting changes]:                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     Why is  this important to  Petersburg specifically?   As                                                                   
     I mentioned  previously, just over 96% of  our land base                                                                   
     is federally  managed and of  our non-federal  lands the                                                                   
     major  landholder  are  Goldbelt   Corporation  and  the                                                                   
     State  of Alaska.   In short,  while the borough  itself                                                                   
     is relatively  large, the  majority of  land is not  and                                                                   
     will never be  included in the local tax  base1 and most                                                                   
     is not  available to  generate economic  return for  our                                                                   
     residents or the state.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     The  Petersburg Borough  would like  the opportunity  to                                                                   
     move  some these lands  into private  ownership and  add                                                                   
     them  to  our  tax base  as  residential  or  commercial                                                                   
     developments.  We would like  the opportunity to  secure                                                                   
     new  sources of  rock for  construction and  maintenance                                                                   
     of  our roads  and other  projects. And,  we'd like  the                                                                   
     opportunity  to use  some  of our  land  to address  the                                                                   
     requirements   of   the   Army    Corps   of   Engineers                                                                   
     compensatory  mitigation  rule,   which  effects  nearly                                                                   
     every  new development  project within  the borough,  by                                                                   
     establishing  a  community   wetlands  mitigation  bank.                                                                   
     This  would  directly benefit  residents  by  expediting                                                                   
     the  process  of obtaining  a  wetlands permit  for  new                                                                   
     development  projects, including  projects  as small  as                                                                   
     single-family residences.   1,400 acres simply  does not                                                                   
     provide  sufficient developable  land  to support  these                                                                   
     goals.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     In  our  discussions  with  the  Department  of  Natural                                                                   
     Resources,  they  explained  that the  agency  generally                                                                   
     does  not voice support  for this  type of  legislation,                                                                   
     but  neither   does  the   agency  oppose   Petersburg's                                                                   
     request.   We provided  a general  outline of the  lands                                                                   
     we  would select  under HB  85 and DNR  did not  express                                                                   
     any concerns about these potential selections.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     Lastly, the  members of this committee know  better than                                                                   
     most that these  are difficult times.  In  our own small                                                                   
     way,  we,  in  Petersburg,   want  to  be  part  of  the                                                                   
     solution, not  a casualty of crisis.  An  increased land                                                                   
    base   is    a   key   component   to    the   long-term                                                                    
     sustainability of our municipality.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
9:24:51 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SADDLER  asked what  the characteristics  of  land                                                              
Petersburg hopes to  acquire are and how the extra  land will help                                                              
the community.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MS.  CABRERA related  that  the  Department of  Natural  Resources                                                              
(DNR)  had  already  provided  a  "pool" of  land  that  would  be                                                              
acceptable, and it  ranges from muskeg in the middle  of an island                                                              
with no road  access or utilities,  to the top of a  mountain, and                                                              
to some waterfront  property.  She explained the  land selected by                                                              
DNR  is  not  contiguous.    She  indicated  that  the  Petersburg                                                              
Borough put  together an  ad hoc  land selection committee,  which                                                              
included  residents, some  of which are  licensed land  surveyors.                                                              
The committee  set  criteria by  which it then  figured out  which                                                              
lands would be suited  for what purposes.  She  said, for example,                                                              
some  land is  suitable  for settlement,  while  some  has a  rock                                                              
quarry on  it that would be  useful, because Petersburg  is almost                                                              
out of  its rock  source.   She said  the committee  is trying  to                                                              
identify  where it  might have  an  entire watershed  on which  it                                                              
could  create  a  "wetlands  mitigation  bank."   She  added  that                                                              
hopefully that would be land for which there is no other use.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
9:27:24 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE WESTLAKE  asked, "How  much acreage does  the state                                                              
have  down  there for  granting  your  wish?"   He  asserted  that                                                              
Alaskans absolutely  believe in home  rule and creating  their own                                                              
destinies.   He queried,  "By everything  said  and done,  will we                                                              
[emphasis on 'we'] have land (indisc.) state of Alaska?"                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MS. CABRERA  responded  that while  she does  not know the  entire                                                              
amount the  state has, she does  know that there are  18,000 acres                                                              
in  vacant, unappropriated,  and  unreserved  (VUU)  status.   She                                                              
said  that   leaves  out  a  large   acreage  in  the   center  of                                                              
Petersburg's  main population  area,  which  includes the  airport                                                              
and any  developed  facilities.   She explained,  "So, all  of the                                                              
things that the  state has used for a state function  have already                                                              
been developed and  set aside.  And so, all we're  looking at is a                                                              
portion of  that land that they  haven't used anything  for."  She                                                              
said she could get the numbers for the committee.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
9:28:56 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  TALERICO asked if  it would  be a fair  assessment                                                              
to describe Petersburg  as a community with a desire  and drive to                                                              
be self-sufficient.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MS. CABRERA answered yes.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
9:29:31 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR PARISH,  after ascertaining  that there  was no  one else                                                              
who wished to testify, closed public testimony on HB 85.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
9:29:59 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SADDLER  said the state apparently has  a system in                                                              
which the formula  under statute does not give  sufficient land to                                                              
local  boroughs, thus  there is  an  ad hoc  selection process  by                                                              
modifying  AS 29.65.030.   He asked  Mr. Parsons,  "After  all the                                                              
adjustments  are made,  what have  we come  up with?   About  what                                                              
percentage  of  the VUU  land  do  boroughs  actually have  now  -                                                              
obviously with  an eye towards  looking at possibly  modifying the                                                              
formula to reflect the ... end state?"                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
9:30:52 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  PARSONS  answered  that  AS  29.65.010  provides  a  list  of                                                              
communities  and   boroughs  in  the  state  that   have  received                                                              
entitlement.   He  said it  is important  to remember  that 12  of                                                              
those   are  under   that   statute  as   part   of  an   historic                                                              
memorialization  of  pre-1978  land  selections,  and  those  were                                                              
"approximately  10 percent of  the VUU  land within the  borough."                                                              
He  indicated  that   the  Aleutians  East  Borough   reduced  its                                                              
entitlement,  because it  did not  feel  comfortable managing  the                                                              
vast amount  of VUU  land.   Mr. Parsons  noted that recently  the                                                              
City  & Borough  of Wrangell  and  the City  &  Borough of  Haines                                                              
requested  an  additional  entitlement  above and  beyond  the  10                                                              
percent VUU  land, but  primarily the  amount is calculated  under                                                              
AS  29.65.030, which  is 10  percent of  the VUU  land within  the                                                              
borough.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SADDLER asked  for confirmation  that Mr.  Parsons                                                              
was  saying  that  historical  boundaries   are  10  percent,  but                                                              
Wrangell and Haines - and now Petersburg - have requested more.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. PARSONS confirmed  that 10 percent is the  historical average.                                                              
He added, "Regardless  of how many acres are  contained within the                                                              
boundaries of  the borough, it's  only those state lands  that are                                                              
considered VUU that are used in the calculation."                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SADDLER  ventured  that Petersburg  is  a  special                                                              
case because  of the preponderance  of land  that is locked  up in                                                              
the Tongass National Forest.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  PARSONS advised  that Haines  received  an additional  amount                                                              
[of land] to bring  its land to 21 percent of  the VUU land within                                                              
its borough;  Wrangell negotiated for  42 percent of the  VUU land                                                              
within  its borough.   He stated  that the  Wrangell Borough  also                                                              
contains a large percentage of the Tongass National Forest.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
9:33:53 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER  asked if passage of HB 85  would open the                                                              
door for "past municipalities to ask for a little more."                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
9:34:16 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  PARISH directed  Representative  Rauscher's question  to                                                              
Mr.  Parsons and  offered  his understanding  that  Representative                                                              
Rauscher was  asking if  the proposed  legislation would  open the                                                              
door  for  municipalities  that  had  already  been  granted  land                                                              
allotments to ask for more.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
9:34:26 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  PARSONS answered  that  although he  could  not predict  what                                                              
would happen, when  Wrangell asked for more land,  Haines followed                                                              
suit;  therefore,   "it  would  not   be  outside  the   realm  of                                                              
possibility that  other boroughs would ... decide  that they would                                                              
like to increase their entitlement through this process."                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
9:35:27 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  KREISS-TOMKINS  suggested  that some  history  and                                                              
precedent   might   inform  the   question.     He   offered   his                                                              
understanding  that in the  past when  boroughs were formed,  they                                                              
got  their allotment  and  tried  to "take  care  of  it then  and                                                              
there," and he  is not aware of previously formed  boroughs coming                                                              
back many years  after the fact asking for more.   He advised that                                                              
the Petersburg  Borough just  formed, so this  is all part  of the                                                              
borough creation  process.   He ventured  that the Denali  Borough                                                              
had a  similar proportion of  land during its process;  therefore,                                                              
it may  ask for  more, "because  in proportional  terms, it's  all                                                              
quite equitable."                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
9:36:35 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE TALERICO  added that the Denali Borough,  with just                                                              
under 2,000  residents, was  given a land  grant of  44,000 acres.                                                              
He continued as follows:                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     I  think  probably  the real  difficulty  would  be  the                                                                   
     borough approaching  the state and passing  the red-face                                                                   
     test  to ask  for  ... more  land.   The  limit here,  I                                                                   
     think,  in  Petersburg,  is  all  about  their  economic                                                                   
     development, being  sufficient.  ... If you  look at the                                                                   
     grants that  most of the other municipalities  have been                                                                   
     given,  it's  been reasonably  substantial  piece[s]  of                                                                   
     land.    ...   I  know  that  the  Denali   Borough  was                                                                   
     certainly aware  of when the  formation of the  Wrangell                                                                   
     and Haines [Boroughs]  came about, but I  don't remember                                                                   
     any  discussions of  approaching  the state  to try  and                                                                   
     acquire more.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  TALERICO quipped  that  his borough  over-selected                                                              
in hopes that the  state would not notice, but the  state stuck to                                                              
its "original acreage."   He said he thinks most  of the organized                                                              
boroughs have  a substantial land grant  now.  He added,  "I don't                                                              
believe  all  of the  selections  have  even  been done  with  the                                                              
larger municipalities;  I think  several of  them still  have land                                                              
to select."                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
9:38:08 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SADDLER  asked the  bill  sponsor  what drove  the                                                              
Petersburg formation  from the  City of Petersburg  to the  City &                                                              
Borough of Petersburg.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  KREISS-TOMKINS  answered  that  there had  been  a                                                              
spirited discussion  in Petersburg.  He noted there  were areas on                                                              
Mitkof Island that  were receiving various municipal  services but                                                              
were not  part of  the City  of Petersburg.   The current  request                                                              
from Petersburg is  an attempt to create a more  coherent means by                                                              
which to  deliver local services,  including fire and school.   He                                                              
said there  may have been other  motivation, as well.   He said he                                                              
thinks the  local boundary  commission process  was both  engaging                                                              
and complex, and  there were interactions with the  City & Borough                                                              
of Juneau related to jurisdiction.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SADDLER  asked  if the  additional  acreage  being                                                              
requested under HB  85 would be sufficient for the  City & Borough                                                              
of Petersburg  to adequately provide  fire, road,  and educational                                                              
services.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  KREISS-TOMKINS answered  yes.   He commented  that                                                              
many  communities  are acknowledging  there  could  be less  state                                                              
support  in  the coming  years  and  are moving  toward  increased                                                              
self-sufficiency.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SADDLER  offered  that  he did  not  know  whether                                                              
state  educational   support  had,   in  fact,  been   reduced  in                                                              
Petersburg.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  KREISS-TOMKINS  responded  that he  believed  that                                                              
statement is accurate.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
9:41:45 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SADDLER  asked  whether DNR  had  ever  considered                                                              
changing the formula  under which land is made  available, such as                                                              
increasing the percentage  of VUU land, to avoid  the "circle back                                                              
to pick up some spare acres."                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
9:42:10 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. PARSONS  answered that because  the formula is in  statute, it                                                              
would  take  legislative  amendment   of  statute  to  modify  the                                                              
percentage of VUU land from which boroughs can select.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SADDLER said that  is true,  but pointed  out that                                                              
the governor does request bills from time to time.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
9:42:40 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR PARISH  noted that the  proposed legislation  had another                                                              
committee of referral, the House Finance Committee.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
9:42:59 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  FANSLER moved  to report  HB  85 out  of committee  with                                                              
individual recommendations and the accompanying fiscal notes.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
9:43:25 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SADDLER  objected for  purposes of discussion.   He                                                              
indicated there had  been prior discussion about  moving bills out                                                              
of committee  after only a single  hearing, and at that  time [one                                                              
of  the committee  co-chairs] had  said that  if a  bill had  been                                                              
heard by a  previous committee, then "that might  mitigate towards                                                              
... passing  out a bill after just  one hearing."  He  offered his                                                              
understanding  that  the  House  Community  and  Regional  Affairs                                                              
Standing  Committee was  the first  committee of  referral for  HB
85, and he questioned, "Is that consistent with your policy?"                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
9:43:50 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  PARISH answered,  "The policy,  as clarified  by my  co-                                                              
chair, is going to  be pretty case by case.  In  such cases as the                                                              
bill only  has one committee of  referral, then I think  it's very                                                              
reasonable  to hold it  over for  at least two  hearings.   In the                                                              
event that it  has additional committees of referral  and there'll                                                              
be additional  occasion for public  testimony, I see no  reason to                                                              
hold it over."                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
9:44:18 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SADDLER removed  his  objection.   There being  no                                                              
further objection,  HB 85 was reported out of  the House Community                                                              
and Regional Affairs Standing Committee.                                                                                        

Document Name Date/Time Subjects
HB085SponsorStatement1.31.2017.pdf HCRA 2/7/2017 8:00:00 AM
HB 85
HB085 Supporting Documents Land Selection 1.31.2017.pdf HCRA 2/7/2017 8:00:00 AM
HB 85
HB085 ver A 1.31.2017.PDF HCRA 2/7/2017 8:00:00 AM
HB 85
HB 80 - Legislation - HB 80 (ENE) Ver U - 2.3.17.PDF HCRA 2/7/2017 8:00:00 AM
HB 80
HB 80 - Sectional Analysis Vers U 2.3.17.PDF HCRA 2/7/2017 8:00:00 AM
HB 80
HB 80 - Sponsor Statement 2.3.17.pdf HCRA 2/7/2017 8:00:00 AM
HB 80
HB 80 - Supporting Document - Letter of Support -APA 2.3.17.pdf HCRA 2/7/2017 8:00:00 AM
HB 80
HB 80 C-PACE House CRA 02.07.17 AEA presentation.pdf HCRA 2/7/2017 8:00:00 AM
HB 80
HB085 Supporting Documents Letter PEDC 2.6.2017.pdf HCRA 2/7/2017 8:00:00 AM
HB 85
Fiscal Note HB080-DCCED-AEA-01-25-17.pdf HCRA 2/7/2017 8:00:00 AM
HB 80
HB085 Supporting Documents Cabrera Testimony 2.6.2017.pdf HCRA 2/7/2017 8:00:00 AM
HB 85
HB085 Supporting Documents Resolution 2.6.2017.PDF HCRA 2/7/2017 8:00:00 AM
HB 85
HB085 Supporting Documents Letter PBurg CoC 2.7.2017.pdf HCRA 2/7/2017 8:00:00 AM
HB 85