Legislature(1999 - 2000)

04/12/2000 02:13 PM Senate JUD

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
txt
Number 270                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
        SB 305-RIGHTS OF PROPERTY OWNER IN DISASTER AREA                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MS. PORTIA PARKER, aid to Senator Lyda Green, stated for the record                                                             
that SB 305 was introduced to address the concerns of private                                                                   
property owners and residents during emergency management of                                                                    
wildfires and disaster areas.  SB 305 establishes statutory                                                                     
guidelines for balancing the rights of private property owners and                                                              
emergency personnel during wildfires and natural disasters.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS. PARKER said the main provisions of SB 305 provide that an adult                                                             
resident or property owner can choose to evacuate or not to                                                                     
evacuate an area, unless a minor or young children are involved.                                                                
Property owners and residents shall be permitted to enter a                                                                     
threatened area if entry does not interfere with emergency                                                                      
personnel and proof of residency or property ownership is provided.                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MS. PARKER stated that SB 305 also provides statutory protection                                                                
for all emergency personnel from liability if a property owner or                                                               
resident is injured or killed because they choose not to evacuate                                                               
or they entered or re-entered a threatened area.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Number 432                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MAJOR TED BACHMAN, Alaska State Troopers, said he has been working                                                              
with the Department of Natural Resources (DNR), the Bureau of Land                                                              
Management (BLM) and Public Safety and Fire Services in the Matsu                                                               
Valley to develop a statewide evacuation policy.  The committee                                                                 
feels that SB 305 does not address all of the essential issues.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR asked about the granting of complete immunity for                                                               
people or organizations that might have some type of liability in                                                               
a disaster.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MAJOR BACHMAN said he thinks immunity is given to the emergency                                                                 
agency or organization that is handling the disaster if they advise                                                             
a resident to leave and the resident refuses or the resident                                                                    
obtains re-entry knowing there may be some danger to life and                                                                   
property.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Number 754                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CAPTAIN TOM SAVAGE, Alaska State Troopers, said the committee's                                                                 
policy is almost in the final stages of development  and it                                                                     
provides more flexibility for all concerned.  The policy provides                                                               
input for modifying areas that need strengthening or areas that                                                                 
need to be corrected and it clarifies the issues.  One area of                                                                  
difficulty has been the definitions of terminology, and the policy                                                              
defines these things and provides a clear direction for emergency                                                               
responders.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CAPTAIN SAVAGE said that one of the biggest issues has been access                                                              
into an area.  SB 305 has not changed current statutory issues--                                                                
firefighters can still restrict or close access to areas.  The                                                                  
policy approach allows more flexibility, greater input, and greater                                                             
mobility once issues are found.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR asked Captain Savage if he had specific instances                                                               
he wanted to address.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CAPTAIN SAVAGE said there is no provision in the statute for                                                                    
removing a intoxicated person or a mentally incapable person                                                                    
without their consent.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
CAPTAIN SAVAGE commented that re-entry or entry is also an issue                                                                
addressed by the policy.  The draft policy defines what will be                                                                 
expected if there is a road closure, road block or checkpoint.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR said he was not sure what policy Captain Savage                                                                 
was referring to.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
CAPTAIN SAVAGE responded it is the policy Major Bachman was                                                                     
referring to--what the committee has been developing for the past                                                               
nine or ten months.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR asked if this is a internal policy to guide                                                                     
personnel in making decisions or is it a policy that will be                                                                    
enforceable through regulation.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
CAPTAIN SAVAGE said the policy has not been addressed at this level                                                             
and certainly not in terms of regulation.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR asked how the policy addresses the issue of a                                                                   
intoxicated person wanting to go into a fire area?                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CAPTAIN SAVAGE responded that a incapacitated person will be                                                                    
prevented from going into a fire area, but a person with alcohol on                                                             
his breath who appears to be rational will be allowed to enter to                                                               
protect his property.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR asked to what extent does the policy assist in                                                                  
these circumstances.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CAPTAIN SAVAGE said it develops greater layers and levels for                                                                   
evacuation, providing for exigent circumstance when people are                                                                  
unable to protect themselves and have to be removed without their                                                               
consent.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Number 1211                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. LARRY WOOD, resident of Lazy Mountain, said he witnessed the                                                                
entire exercise at Lazy Mountain.   His house fronted Clark                                                                     
Wolverine Road where the majority of the activity occurred, and his                                                             
letter to the Governor was the catalyst for what has  happened.  He                                                             
also stated that he disagrees with Captain Savage.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR. WOOD said  he is a member of the Lazy Mountain Community                                                                    
Counsel Post-fire Committee which drafted the statutes.  The                                                                    
committee decided to reject the policy because policy changes,                                                                  
depending on who is in charge.  Contrary to Captain Savage's                                                                    
assertions, the policy is not benign for the residents of the area.                                                             
If an evacuation order is given, people who refuse to leave should                                                              
be removed even if force is needed.  There is no qualification for                                                              
this point in the policy.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. WOOD said the Lazy Mountain Community Council feels that SB 305                                                             
will insure that property owners are not treated as chattel.                                                                    
Federal mandate says that there should be no participation of                                                                   
property owners in defense of their property, but it was recognized                                                             
at Miller's Reach that homes were saved when residents stayed to                                                                
help.  Fire crews can bulldoze the property, the house or whatever,                                                             
in order to stop the fire but the State takes no responsibility for                                                             
that property.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. WOOD said his only criticism of SB 305 is that the proof of                                                                 
identification (ID) is raised beyond the level of a driver's                                                                    
license.  If a person is called at work or finds out over the radio                                                             
that there is an emergency, they may leave their ID behind in their                                                             
haste to leave.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. WOOD noted that the only thing he is trying to do with SB 305                                                               
is to insure that people have access to their property.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR TAYLOR asked Mr. Wood if he had a copy of SB 305.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. WOOD responded yes.  He said it varies little from what was                                                                 
drafted with the exception of the section that states: "contains                                                                
the photograph," and the original draft from the Lazy Mountain                                                                  
Council  said that a person who provides false witness should be                                                                
held criminally liable.  The financially responsible aspect of SB
305 is also objectionable because it makes "the person who vouches                                                              
is responsible for that individual who goes into the area and has                                                               
a fender bender, for example."                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. WOOD said the citizens of Lazy Mountain are not going to sue a                                                              
police officer for trying to do his job under the circumstances                                                                 
that were experienced at Lazy Mountain, but they most assuredly                                                                 
will object--SB 305 is that objection.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR. WOOD said the Lazy Mountain fire was handled very badly by the                                                              
Division of Forestry and the Alaska State Troopers in terms of                                                                  
security and perimeter control.  The draft plan addresses some of                                                               
this, but the residents of Lazy Mountain feel that it would serve                                                               
all of Alaska well to have the protection afforded by SB 305.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR thanked Mr. Wood and said he shares some of the                                                                 
same concerns.  One of his concerns is over the wording "legally                                                                
and financially responsible for another person," and another                                                                    
concern is over the liability aspects of the immunity provision.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR said it is the intent of the Committee to hold SB
305 and work on it in the interim.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Number 1900                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS. BARBARA LEISS made the following comments:                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
First of all, this is farm country.  Most of the people who live                                                                
here are farmers with large tracts of land, livestock and other                                                                 
animals.   A lot of the people have lived here all of their life                                                                
and everyone knows everyone.  Hence, the reason for all of the                                                                  
problems that occurred during the roadblock.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
People seeking access to a fire or disaster area must show good                                                                 
reasons to the officers or firefighters in charge for wanting to                                                                
enter that area, whether they are a resident, relative of a                                                                     
resident, or friend of a resident who wants to help.  There are a                                                               
lot of people in Alaska that do not have fire insurance and they                                                                
will take desperate measures to save their goods--firefighters and                                                              
police officers need to realize that.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Another problem was that the fire occurred in the afternoon and it                                                              
reached its peak around 1:30 or 2:00 on a weekday.  Elementary                                                                  
school children were being bussed home at that time.  They were                                                                 
dropped off on the main road to walk to their homes.  Shortly after                                                             
2:30, State Troopers were informed by the firefighters to put up a                                                              
roadblock to the mountain at its main entrance.  Remember, we have                                                              
only one way in and one way out and that's the problem.  Parents                                                                
returning home from work were denied access to get to their                                                                     
children who were home alone and the authorities did not know which                                                             
homes had children nor did they take any steps to evacuate the                                                                  
children.  There was no means of transportation for evacuating the                                                              
children.  There were also disabled people in wheelchairs who were                                                              
home alone.  The police should work with the residents when there                                                               
are children and disabled and elderly people involved.  This area                                                               
is not addressed in SB 305 and the citizens of Lazy Mountain would                                                              
like it included.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
There was also an incident with an old man who was in a wheelchair.                                                             
The man's son finally convinced the police to check on him.  The                                                                
police went to the door, didn't wait very long, and were already                                                                
out the driveway by the time the elderly man in the  wheelchair got                                                             
to the door.  Common sense needs to be used.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
"And, of course, you've already heard about the drawing of the gun                                                              
on a farmer boy here who has never had a criminal record in his                                                                 
life and the reason that boy was so desperate to get to his farm                                                                
and his family was because at the roadblock, he was told that his                                                               
house was on fire and his family was trapped."                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MS. LEISS said that changing the statutes to be more reasonable for                                                             
the majority of citizens is in order.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Number 2115                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. KEN ROWLAND, resident of Lazy Mountain, said he does not                                                                    
believe the policy is the way to address this problem, and he                                                                   
wholeheartedly agrees with Larry Wood that policy changes with the                                                              
people in charge.  He is also concerned about the gun issue.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. ROWLAND said that policy should not be at the whim of                                                                       
bureaucrats and firefighters who can change it indiscriminately.                                                                
He is also concerned that firefighters can burn a person's home to                                                              
enhance the firefighting effort.  Destroying property should never                                                              
be left to the decision of one person--at least three officials                                                                 
should make that decision.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR suggested the re-draft should have a provision                                                                  
saying that if there is a decision to burn a home or building the                                                               
State will rebuild or give the owner money to rebuild.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Number 2287                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS. HELEN MUNOZ said the other people who testified expressed her                                                               
concerns.  She said that for the first time in her life she felt                                                                
threatened by authority during the Lazy Mountain fire.                                                                          

Document Name Date/Time Subjects