Legislature(2021 - 2022)BELTZ 105 (TSBldg)
05/11/2022 01:30 PM Senate LABOR & COMMERCE
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| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| HB363 | |
| SB181 | |
| SB237 | |
| HB363 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| *+ | HB 363 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| += | SB 181 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| *+ | SB 237 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| += | SB 232 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | TELECONFERENCED | ||
SB 237-AMBULATORY SURGICAL EMPLOYEES: OVERTIME
2:56:38 PM
CHAIR COSTELLO announced the consideration of SENATE BILL NO.
237 "An Act exempting certain ambulatory surgical center
employees from overtime pay requirements; and providing for an
effective date."
She noted that this was the first hearing and Deputy
Commissioner Munoz would provide the introduction.
2:57:18 PM
CATHY MUNOZ, Deputy Commissioner, Department of Labor and
Workforce Development, Juneau, Alaska, thanked the committee for
hearing SB 237 that would exempt certain ambulatory surgical
centers employees from the requirements of overtime pay.
She explained that federal and state laws govern the payment of
overtime. For purposes of paying overtime, federal law defines
the threshold as more than a 40-hour work week and state law
further defines the threshold as greater than 40 hours per week
or eight hours per day. AS 23.10.060 lists a number of
professions that are exempt from the eight-hour threshold for
calculating overtime. This list includes hospital employees who
work in the direct provision of medical services.
SB 237 adds employees working in ambulatory surgical centers who
provide direct medical care to the list of professions exempted
from the eight hour daily threshold for purposes of overtime
calculation. Importantly, the federal 40-hour work week
threshold would still apply, just as it applies to all the
exempted professions in state law.
MS. MUNOZ said this change provides parity. Ambulatory surgical
centers would be able to offer the same flexible scheduling to
employees that provide direct medical care as hospital employees
in similar positions.
She noted that Alecia Rathlin was available to answer questions
about the wage and hour law.
2:59:43 PM
SENATOR STEVENS asked if this means that someone who has already
worked an eight-hour day could be taking care of a surgery
patient such as himself.
MS. MUNOZ responded that current law allows hospitals to offer
flexible scheduling within the 40-hour work week such as four
10-hour days or three 12 hour days. SB 237 would provide the
same option to ambulatory surgical centers.
SENATOR STEVENS expressed dismay.
MS. MUNOZ replied it isn't a requirement. It's a scheduling
option that hospitals are able to offer these certain employees,
and employees from ambulatory surgical centers have requested
the same scheduling flexibility. She described it as a
recruitment tool.
CHAIR COSTELLO asked Senator Stevens if he would like Alecia
Rathlin to respond to his concern.
SENATOR STEVENS said yes; he asked Ms. Rathlin for her
perspective of the bill.
3:01:15 PM
ALECIA RATHLIN, Investigator, Wage and Hour Office, Division of
Labor Standards and Safety, Department of Labor and Workforce
Development (DOLWD), Anchorage, Alaska, explained that Alaska
wage and hour law does not prohibit employees from working more
than eight hours a day, but they must be paid overtime for the
time they work over that threshold. SB 237 provides an exemption
for that overtime pay.
SENATOR STEVENS summarized his understanding that the bill
doesn't change the work day or week; it's just about doing away
with overtime pay.
MS. RATHLIN agreed.
3:02:07 PM
CHAIR COSTELLO opened public testimony on SB 237.
3:02:21 PM
PAM VENGEN, Executive Director, Alaska State Medical Association
(ASMA), Anchorage, Alaska, stated that ASMA represents
physicians throughout Alaska and she was speaking in support of
SB 237, which would make it easier for surgery centers to
schedule employees. Nurses and other surgical staff who work in
hospitals have the option of working a longer shift than eight
hours. A typical schedule for these employees is to work three
12-hour days and have four days off in a week. SB 237 would
allow ambulatory surgery centers to offer similar flexible
schedules to their surgical employees, which would place them on
equal footing with hospitals and make it easier to attract and
retain surgery staff. She clarified that the schedule would be
an option for employees, not a requirement. The medical
association supports this bill.
SENATOR STEVENS asked if she thought this would lead to more
people working more than eight hours a day.
MS. VENGEN replied that the number of people working more than 8
hours a day might increase, but the bill does not change the 40
hour per week threshold for paying overtime. Anyone who works
more than 40 hours per week would be paid overtime. She
reiterated that the bill simply allows surgery centers the same
flexible scheduling that hospitals offer.
SENATOR STEVENS asked if this was a money saving effort.
MS. VENGEN replied it would save some money by not paying
overtime, but these employees currently have no option other
than to work five days a week. Employees who might want to work
three 12-hour shifts each week currently do not have that option
if they work for a surgery center. Only hospitals are able to
offer these schedules.
SENATOR STEVENS said it didn't make sense that somebody who had
worked a 12 hour day might be doing surgery.
MS. VENGEN clarified that the bill does not apply to surgeons;
it's about medical support staff.
SENATOR STEVENS maintained his position.
MS. VENGEN pointed out that hospital employees who work in the
direct provision of medical services currently have the option
and do work those shifts.
3:06:03 PM
SENATOR GRAY-JACKSON offered her understanding that SB 237
allows flex time.
MS. VENGEN answered yes, and noted that representatives from
surgery centers were online to answer questions.
3:06:31 PM
SENATOR MICCICHE asked if she was saying that hospitals
currently are able to offer this scheduling. He also asked where
in statute health care centers that are hospitals are separated
from health care centers that are ambulatory surgery centers.
MS. VENGEN replied that current statute allows hospitals to
offer flex time, but surgery centers are not mentioned. She
deferred further comment to Ms. Munoz.
MS. MUNOZ directed attention to the provision regarding payment
of overtime in AS 23.10.060(d)(12).
(d) This section does not apply to
(12) an employee of a hospital whose employment
includes the provision of medical services;
SENATOR MICCICHE observed that this places ambulatory surgery
centers on an equal footing with hospitals. He said he assumes
that overtime would be paid to employees in both hospitals and
ambulatory surgery centers who work more than 40 hours in a
week.
MS. MUNOZ answered that the 40 hour threshold is federal law and
that doesn't change. The bill exempts the eight hour per day
threshold.
3:08:19 PM
CHAIR COSTELLO questioned whether this might result in fewer
people volunteering to work overtime.
MS. MUNOZ deferred the question to representatives from surgical
centers, but pointed out that representatives and employees
brought the idea forward.
CHAIR COSTELLO asked Ms. Vengen for her perspective.
MS. VENGEN replied the employee would have the choice of working
five eight-hour days with an opportunity for some overtime or
three 12-hour days without any overtime.
SENATOR STEVENS maintained his position that someone who works
more than eight hours in a day should be paid overtime.
SENATOR GRAY-JACKSON relayed that the Municipality of Anchorage
offers employees nine 80s, which is to work 80 hours in a two
week period in nine days. She asked if that would be an option,
should the bill pass
3:10:19 PM
MS. RATHIN said she believes the two separate overtime
exemptions are being conflated. The overtime exemption for flex
plans requires the employee to agree to participate voluntarily.
The exemption proposed in SB 237 does not require voluntary
participation by the employee.
SENATOR GRAY-JACKSON clarified that she was just providing an
example.
CHAIR COSTELLO turned to public testimony.
3:11:22 PM
KEVIN BARRY, CEO, Alaska Surgery Center (ASC), Anchorage,
Alaska, stated strong support for SB 237 to give ambulatory
surgery centers the option of offering current and prospective
surgical staff the option of a flexible work schedule.
MR. BARRY pointed out that working people place more value on
family time now and they're choosing work options that are more
flexible. Current state law restricts surgery centers from
offering flex schedules even though hospitals have this option,
which is a distinct disadvantage.
MR. BARRY said Alaska has a shortage of health care
professionals and the center's recent interviews have shown that
nurses in particular want the option of working 12 hour shifts.
When candidates have asked about working 12-hour shifts the
center has had to explain that surgery centers are not allowed
to offer that option. Many of the nurses stated that was the
only reason they turned down the job offer. They view this as an
important option for their personal and family life.
SB 237 would allow surgery centers to offer the same shift
options to medical staff that hospitals enjoy. It has nothing to
do with taking away overtime. Shifts that are overtime eligible
after eight hours will still be available. SB 237 simply puts
surgery centers on equal footing with hospitals.
3:14:20 PM
SENATOR STEVENS asked if the idea was to save money by not
paying overtime.
MR. BARRY replied this would be an option. Employees may choose
to stay on an eight-hour five days a week shift.
SENATOR STEVENS asked if it would save the center money by not
paying overtime.
MR. BARRY replied it would save the center some overtime pay,
but the employee would have four days off each week and that's
what they're asking for.
SENATOR STEVENS pointed out that the center could offer 12-hour
shifts and pay overtime after eight hours. He maintained his
view that this was avoiding paying overtime.
MR. BARRY said the center only schedules employees for eight
hours and if they work more than that they're paid overtime. But
if the goal is to work just three days a week and be employed
full time, it would be an advantage for the surgery center and
the employee if this option were available.
SENATOR STEVENS offered his understanding that the center was
still saving money by not paying overtime.
MR. BARRY agreed, [should SB 237 pass,] that the center would
not pay overtime for those employees that chose the option to
work just three days a week and be employed full time.
CHAIR COSTELLO asked Mr. Jayne to provide his testimony and
respond to any questions that have come up.
3:16:09 PM
BRUCE JAYNE, CEO/Administrator, Surgery Center of Anchorage
(SCA), Anchorage, Alaska, stated strong support for SB 237. He
said he's worked in health care for 39 years, both in hospitals
and ambulatory surgery centers. He related that one thing that
appeals to people starting a nursing career is the ability to
work the shifts they choose. Nurses are in demand and hospitals
are able to offer three 12-hour shifts in a week if that's what
the nurse wants. Many like the option of a four-day weekend. He
agreed with Mr. Barry that nurses are asking for this option but
it's not an option for ambulatory surgery centers at this time.
In response to Senator Steven's concern, he said SCA does not
run its operating rooms for 12 hours, but it does provide
extended patient care. He agreed that, should SB 237 pass, SCA
wouldn't pay overtime to medical staff who opt to work three 12-
hour shifts per week, but that's generally what nurses were
asking for.
MR. JAYNE said many hospital medical staff are accustomed to
working 12-hour shifts and like the lifestyle it affords. That's
still what they're looking for when they decide they want to
change to a different type of facility. Not being able to
accommodate such requests inhibits a surgery center's ability to
recruit in this market, he said.
SENATOR STEVENS said he agrees that employees should have the
choice, but it seems that the advantage of passing the bill is
that surgery centers wouldn't have to pay overtime to employees
who work 12 hours. He asked if that was true.
MR. JAYNE replied that would be part of the outcome, but the
goal of the legislation is to put surgery centers on equal
footing with hospitals for the purposes of recruiting staff.
3:20:03 PM
SENATOR MICCICHE said he didn't have a problem with the bill
since hospitals already have this option, but he was curious
about the three letters of opposition. He expressed interest in
hearing that perspective.
CHAIR COSTELLO asked if the surgery center offers this schedule.
MR. JAYNE said there are two nurses who work flex 10s; they
wanted the shift specifically for their home life.
3:22:04 PM
MARY HOPKIN, representing self, Anchorage, Alaska, stated that
she is a nurse who manages an operating room in a surgery
center, and she requested this legislation. In the past the
state Board of Nursing has denied a 12-hour shift to surgery
centers and they want this option. The center currently offers 8
and 10 hour shifts and any work beyond those predetermined times
is considered overtime. She expressed the desire to be on equal
footing with the hospital in hiring staff. People want 12-hour
shifts because it works for their personal and family life, but
the only places that offers that currently are hospitals.
CHAIR COSTELLO asked her to talk about a 12-hour shift and if
there is any downtime or a diminution of energy at the end of
the shift.
MS. HOPKINS said someone who is working a 12-hour shift isn't
necessarily going to be working at high acuity for all 12 hours.
They're doing other things to help run the surgery center.
3:24:35 PM
SENATOR GRAY-JACKSON asked, if SB 237 passes, would an employee
who works a regular eight hour shift receive overtime if they
worked more than eight hours.
MS. HOPKINS said her understanding is they would receive
overtime. In the surgery center people are hired for 5 8s, 4,
10s, or 3 12s and any work beyond that predetermined number of
hours is considered overtime.
SENATOR GRAY-JACKSON said she asked the question to get the
answer on the record.
3:25:42 PM
BRIAN BERG, Leadership Team, Alpine Surgery Center (ASC),
Anchorage, Alaska, stated that working shifts that are longer
than eight hours is an option that is available to nurses in
certain settings, but these shifts are not eligible for
overtime. Whether or not to choose a longer shift is a personal
choice. It is not a mandate or a way to restrict pay or a way to
prevent a nurse from receiving the overtime benefit. It is a
quality of life choice some nurses are looking for. A nurse who
chooses a 12 hour shift has appropriate breaks, lunch time, and
down time to ensure safe and quality standards of patient care
are maintained.
SB 237 proposes to extend the ability to offer longer than eight
hour shifts to ambulatory surgery centers so they can offer
nurses the same schedules that hospitals are able to offer.
3:27:36 PM
CHAIR COSTELLO closed public testimony on SB 237.
3:27:41 PM
At ease
3:31:14 PM
CHAIR COSTELLO reconvened the meeting.
SENATOR MICCICHE asked where in statute it says hospitals can
offer 12-hour shifts.
MS. MUNOZ answered that the exemption is in the overtime section
that she read into the record earlier. She deferred to Ms.
Rathlin to discuss the law that specifically addresses overtime
for nurses.
3:32:20 PM
MS. RATHLIN explained that there are two separate exemptions.
The first exempts hospitals from the overtime requirement, and
it is this statute that SB 237 proposes to amend to include
ambulatory surgery centers. The second exemption is found in AS
23.10.060(d)(14) pertaining to flex plans. Employers must
specifically apply to the Wage and Hour Office for approval of a
flex plan and the statute limits those to up to 10 hours per
day. This statute would prevent the Wage and Hour Office from
approving an employer request for of a 3 12s schedule.
CHAIR COSTELLO asked if another approach would be to amend the
flex plan statute by extending the 10 hour limit to 12 hours.
MS. RATHLIN agreed that would work.
SENATOR GRAY-JACKSON said she'd like to see the statute.
3:34:34 PM
CHAIR COSTELLO explained her reasoning was to amend the section
of law pertaining to flex plans and extend the 10 hour limit to
12 hours.
SENATOR MICCICHE pointed out that AS 23.10.060(d)(12) is
specific to hospitals and if the statute relating to flex plans
were amended it would apply to all employers, not just
ambulatory surgery centers that made the specific request.
He observed that AS 23.10.060(d)(12) doesn't specifically say
that someone hired for an eight hour per day five days per week
schedule would be paid overtime if they worked more than eight
hours in a day.
3:36:51 PM
MS. MUNOZ said federal law requires employers to pay overtime
for work in excess of 40 hours per week. The specific addition
of ambulatory surgery centers under the exemption in AS
23.10.060(d)(12) allows for the exemption of the eight hour
threshold. She agreed that amending the flex plan exemption
would be a broader umbrella. She suggested Ms. Rathlin clarify
that for the record.
3:37:31 PM
MS. RATHLIN confirmed that was accurate.
CHAIR COSTELLO commented on the health and safety reasons for
limiting work hours for certain professions and noted that the
bill extends what hospitals are already able to offer certain
employees to ambulatory surgical centers. She opined that it
comes down to how comfortable the committee is with that idea.
SENATOR MICCICHE posed a hypothetical situation of an employee
with a 4 10s schedule who works 12 hours the first three days of
the week. He said his concern is that an employer might send
that employee home after they work four hours on Thursday, even
if they're needed, to avoid the federal 40/hour/week threshold
for paying overtime. He restated his wish to hear from people
who opposed the legislation to understand whether that was their
concern.
3:40:57 PM
SENATOR GRAY-JACKSON said it's a good point because some people
really want overtime.
CHAIR COSTELLO advised that three letters of opposition have
been mentioned, but one individual wrote two of those letters;
one to her as chair and another letter to the committee.
She asked Mr. Barry to address the concerns that have been
articulated during the hearing.
MR. BARRY stated that the bill is not intended to take advantage
of anybody or game the system. Should the bill pass, ambulatory
surgery centers would still offer eight and ten hour shifts. The
bill would simply allow these centers to offer 12 hour shifts.
Nurses primarily are asking for this option and it's already
available if they work in a hospital. Prospective employees are
turning down work in surgery centers because they can't get the
longer shifts that they want or have become accustomed to.
3:43:30 PM
CHAIR COSTELLO said she believes that the individual who wrote
one of the letters of opposition misunderstands the effect of
the bill. She read the following excerpt:
Singling out the medical field on this bill is wrong
and unfair. Often times we are asked to stay past our
8 hour shift to complete ELECTIVE surgeries. Taking
away overtime pay for 8 hour shifts will breed
reluctance to stay and work later. This is an
incentive to stay, and taking it away is wrong.
CHAIR COSTELLO asked Mr. Barry to confirm that a person who
signs up for an eight-hour shift will receive overtime if they
work longer than eight hours in a day.
MR. BARRY said that's correct and the same is true for a 10-hour
shift. He also noted that the federal threshold always applies
so someone who works 4 10s and comes to work on day five will be
paid overtime on that day. He clarified that a surgery center
can't operate with all employees on a 12-hour shift, but they
want to be able to make that offer. He restated that everyone
who works overtime is paid overtime and SB 237 wouldn't
eliminate that.
CHAIR COSTELLO summarized that ambulatory surgery centers are
only able to offer eight- and ten-hour shifts, although current
and prospective employees are asking for the option to work 12-
hour shifts. Only hospitals are able to offer 12-hour shifts and
surgery centers may lose prospective employees as a result.
MR. BARRY said that's correct but it's not that they may go to
hospitals; that's already happening. Some people are accustomed
to a 12-hour shift and like the lifestyle it affords.
SENATOR MICCICHE said he didn't object to moving the bill. He
believes that ambulatory surgery centers should be on equal
footing with hospitals in this regard. He commented that the
individual who objected to the bill may not realize that
hospitals already have this ability.
CHAIR COSTELLO offered her belief that the [title] caused some
of the confusion. She asked Mr. Barry if someone who is on a 12-
hour shift ever works overtime.
MR. BARRY said it hasn't happened at the Alaska Surgery Center
and he couldn't see that it would, but if it did they would be
paid overtime.
MS. MUNOZ pointed out that there is a shortage of health care
workers and COVID has made people aware of the benefit of having
more flexibility in their work schedules. Anything that makes
employment in this industry more attractive is worth
considering.
3:47:56 PM
At ease
3:48:35 PM
CHAIR COSTELLO reconvened the meeting and solicited a motion.
3:48:40 PM
SENATOR MICCICHE moved to report SB 237, work order 32-GS2117\A,
from committee with individual recommendations and attached zero
fiscal note(s).
CHAIR COSTELLO found no objection and SB 237 was reported from
the Senate Labor and Commerce Standing Committee.
| Document Name | Date/Time | Subjects |
|---|---|---|
| HB 363 v. W.PDF |
SL&C 5/11/2022 1:30:00 PM |
HB 363 |
| HB 363 Sponsor Statement.pdf |
SL&C 5/11/2022 1:30:00 PM |
HB 363 |
| HB 363 Sectional Analysis v. W.pdf |
SL&C 5/11/2022 1:30:00 PM |
HB 363 |
| HB 363 Explanation of Changes.pdf |
SL&C 5/11/2022 1:30:00 PM |
HB 363 |
| HB 363 Fiscal Note 3379 - DCCED.pdf |
SL&C 5/11/2022 1:30:00 PM |
HB 363 |
| HB 363 State of Alaska NTIA Comment 02.04.22.pdf |
SL&C 5/11/2022 1:30:00 PM |
HB 363 |
| HB 363 Written Testimony received by 5.5.22.pdf |
SL&C 5/11/2022 1:30:00 PM |
HB 363 |
| SB 181 v. G.PDF |
SL&C 5/11/2022 1:30:00 PM |
SB 181 |
| SB 181 Sponsor Statement.pdf |
SL&C 5/11/2022 1:30:00 PM |
SB 181 |
| SB 181 Sectional Analysis v. G.pdf |
SL&C 5/11/2022 1:30:00 PM |
SB 181 |
| SB 181 Explanation of Changes v. B to v. G.pdf |
SL&C 5/11/2022 1:30:00 PM |
SB 181 |
| SB 181 Fiscal Note 2360 - DCCED.pdf |
SL&C 5/11/2022 1:30:00 PM |
SB 181 |
| SB 237 v. A.PDF |
SL&C 5/11/2022 1:30:00 PM |
SB 237 |
| SB 237 Hearing Request 4.15.22.pdf |
SL&C 5/11/2022 1:30:00 PM |
SB 237 |
| SB 237 Fiscal Note 345 - DOL.PDF |
SL&C 5/11/2022 1:30:00 PM |
SB 237 |
| SB 237 Letter of Support AK Surgery Center.pdf |
SL&C 5/11/2022 1:30:00 PM |
SB 237 |
| SB 237 Written Testimony as of 4.24.22.pdf |
SL&C 5/11/2022 1:30:00 PM |
SB 237 |
| SB 232 v. A.PDF |
SL&C 5/11/2022 1:30:00 PM |
SB 232 |
| SB 232 Sponsor Statement.pdf |
SL&C 5/11/2022 1:30:00 PM |
SB 232 |
| SB 232 Sectional Analysis v. A.pdf |
SL&C 5/11/2022 1:30:00 PM |
SB 232 |
| SB 232 Fiscal Note 345 - DOL.pdf |
SL&C 5/11/2022 1:30:00 PM |
SB 232 |
| HB 363 Work Draft v. D.pdf |
SL&C 5/11/2022 1:30:00 PM |
HB 363 |
| HB 363 Shawn Williams Written Testimony 5.11.22.pdf |
SL&C 5/11/2022 1:30:00 PM |
HB 363 |