Legislature(2011 - 2012)BELTZ 105 (TSBldg)
03/23/2012 01:30 PM Senate JUDICIARY
| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| SB200 | |
| SB210 | |
| SB212 | |
| SB180 | |
| SB138 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| *+ | SJR 19 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| += | SB 180 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | SB 138 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | TELECONFERENCED | ||
| += | SB 200 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| += | SB 210 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| += | SB 212 | TELECONFERENCED | |
SB 180-NATURALLY OCCURRING ASBESTOS IN GRAVEL
1:43:52 PM
CHAIR FRENCH announced the consideration of SB 180 and asked for
a motion to adopt the proposed committee substitute (CS),
version E.
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI moved to adopt the work draft CS for SB
180, labeled 27-LS1219\E, as the working document.
CHAIR FRENCH announced that without objection, version E was
before the committee. He asked Mr. Scott to review the changes
made in the CS.
1:44:24 PM
At ease from 1:44:53 p.m. to 1:45:00 p.m.
DAVID SCOTT, staff to Senator Donny Olson, sponsor of SB 180,
explained the following changes:
Page 3, line 25, following "aggregate material." insert all
language to the end of Section 1, page 4, line 4, as follows:
Health risks resulting from asbestos exposure vary
according to the level, type, and duration of
exposure. While exposure to very small concentrations
of asbestos may pose some health risk, there is not a
practical way to prevent all exposure to asbestos for
residents in close proximity to deposits that contain
naturally occurring asbestos. The intent of this act
is to establish a sensible analytical threshold for
detection of naturally occurring asbestos in gravel or
other aggregate material and to establish appropriate
exceptions for the use of gravel or other aggregate
material that contains naturally occurring asbestos
for certain public facilities and transportation
projects involving unusual circumstances, including
projects in remote locations or in regions where
gravel or other aggregate material free from naturally
occurring asbestos is not reasonably available.
Page 6, lines 12-13, insert:
(2) coordinate with the Department of Natural
Resources to establish and maintain a database of
MR. SCOTT noted that he also provided additional backup material
for the bill packets.
CHAIR FRENCH expressed concern about the reference on page 4,
lines 17-18, and throughout the bill, to "content equal to or
greater than 0.25 percent naturally occurring asbestos by mass."
Initially, the bill said, "less than or equal 0.25 percent
naturally occurring asbestos by mass." He said he would look to
witnesses to find out how much gravel varies in the content of
naturally occurring asbestos (NOA), and if a lower-limit cap
might be in order so people would know they were being directed
to use gravel with the lowest possible asbestos content.
MR. SCOTT responded that discussions with other legislators and
the administration indicate that 0.25 percent was "the new
zero." He offered his belief that it was an issue of testing,
and deferred further explanation to the representative from
Department of Transportation and Public Facilities (DOTPF).
CHAIR FRENCH listed the individuals that signed up to testify
and answer questions.
1:49:21 PM
ROGER HEALY, Chief Engineer, Department of Transportation and
Public Facilities (DOTPF), explained that the change in
definition emulates what California did in regard to the use of
gravel with naturally occurring asbestos. That state set up an
analytical testing method called California Air Resources Board
(CARB) 435. After a number of test iterations, the board adopted
a detection limit of 0.25 percent by mass, or 1 in 400. Samples
are analyzed according to certain points and if 1 asbestos fiber
is found in 400 points, the asbestos content is 0.25 percent. If
there is not an asbestos fiber under one of those points, the
material is classifies as non-NOA.
1:51:35 PM
CHAIR FRENCH asked how many samples from a gravel pit would
ensure a good representation.
MR. HEALY replied the follow-up regulations should address that.
CHAIR FRENCH asked for a ballpark estimate.
MR. HEALY estimated that DOTPF drilled 12 or more holes on a 3-5
acre site in the Ambler area.
1:53:14 PM
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI asked if DOTPF takes or suggests
precautions for people working with material that potentially
contains asbestos.
MR. HEALY explained that working with naturally occurring
asbestos was a different issue than asbestos abatement in a
building. Both Occupational Safety Health Administration (OSHA)
and Mining Safety Health Administration (MSHA) have a 0.1 fiber
per cubic centimeter airborne standard for exposure to both NOA
and asbestos in a building. If DOTPF is aware of naturally
occurring asbestos in an existing project, it will meet the
existing airborne standard. Drillers and anyone operating near a
crusher or driving on the road should be following the laws
regarding dust mitigation, he said.
1:56:45 PM
CHAIR FRENCH asked if these workers wear respirators.
MR. HEALY replied, "this would be the safety component of the
contractor, but they should." He added that dust in general is a
health issue and anyone on a dusty site should take precautions.
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI asked if he was familiar with the
Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) recommendations for
working with naturally occurring asbestos.
MR. HEALY answered yes; the EPA has recommendations but not any
true direction. For construction standards on projects, DOTPF
will rely heavily on the California restrictions such as speed
limits, watering, and a dust mitigation program.
CHAIR FRENCH asked if there was an upper limit beyond which NOA
material should not be used.
MR. HEALY said no, but states have wrestled with the issue.
CHAIR FRENCH asked what concentrations of naturally occurring
asbestos were in the gravel pits in the Ambler area.
2:00:26 PM
MR. HEALY replied the DOTPF test results were preliminary, but
two sites tested below 0.25 percent by mass, and another site
tested both above and below .25 percent by mass.
CHAIR FRENCH asked if in the past DOTPF had worked with the
provision in subsection (d) on page 9, lines 13-17. It says the
department may not use material that contains equal to or
greater than 0.25 percent NOA unless it is economically
unreasonable to undertake the project using material that is
free from NOA.
MR. HEALY replied DOTPF balances what is economically reasonable
on every project. The focus of the bill is to allow the use of
NOA material within a project; it is not to say that the final
exposure will be NOA material. The assumption is that the
surface cap will minimize any airborne NOA.
CHAIR FRENCH asked how DOTPF would apply that standard in
building a road.
MR. HEALY said he and others would consider things like the
daily traffic and maintenance procedures over the lifespan of
the road.
CHAIR FRENCH said it sounded like capping material would be a
viable option in Ambler, but he had not gotten that impression
from other conversations.
MR. HEALY replied that in the case of a gravel road, he would
consider the daily traffic and the maintenance requirements over
a 20-50 year lifespan. If the operational intent was to do
seasonal grading and the expected disturbance level was 6-9
inches, a safety factor would be added to the cap to accommodate
the expected activity. A maintenance component would also be
contemplated to bring in additional non-NOA material to build up
the capping layer as necessary.
CHAIR FRENCH asked if the use of a capping material was a viable
option in Ambler.
MR. HEALY said that from a health perspective, the acceptable
level of exposure by the public on a new project was less than
0.25 percent by mass.
CHAIR FRENCH commented that for all practical purposes the
acceptable exposure level for the public was zero.
MR. HEALY said yes, and DOTPF found materials in the Ambler area
that were less than 0.25 percent by mass. However, an economic
component of the project was that the materials were not
immediately accessible by permanent road.
2:09:06 PM
MR. SCOTT added that NOA containing material or aggregate would
only be used if it was economically unreasonable to do
otherwise.
CHAIR FRENCH said he would like to discuss the idea further to
try to give it "more teeth."
SENATOR COGHILL asked what other potentially harmful particles
in dust might have a concentration of 0.25 percent by mass.
MR. HEALY deferred the question to Dr. McLaughlin.
2:11:33 PM
JOE MCLAUGHLIN, MD, state epidemiologist, Department of Health
and Social Services (DHSS), said he was not aware of any other
toxin with the same 0.25 percent threshold, but at certain
levels dust itself was a human health concern. Available data
indicates that dust that is 2.5 microns (PM 2.5) in diameter is
strongly associated with adverse health events, such as coronary
heart and cerebral vascular diseases. The data are less clear
for dust particles that are 10 microns (PM 10) in diameter, but
have been associated with adverse health effects.
CHAIR FRENCH asked if 10-micron particulate matter was actually
more dangerous than 2.5-micron particulate matter.
DR. MCLAUGHLIN answered yes, because the smaller particles can
travel into the alveoli in the lung. Material at the PM-10 level
is courser and often works its way up the respiratory system and
is swallowed or spit out.
CHAIR FRENCH asked if he was familiar with the report prepared
May 20, 2005 by John P. Middaugh, M.D. and Scott Arnold, Ph.D.
DR. MCLAUGHLIN said yes.
CHAIR FRENCH asked if that was the most recent report available
on asbestos-related diseases in Northwest Alaska.
DR. MCLAUGHLIN replied the agency for toxic substances and
disease registry (ATSDR) published a report in June 2007. It was
a report on an investigation that ATSDR conducted in August 2005
in the Ambler area looking at whether road dust from all-terrain
vehicles (ATVs) exposed riders and walkers to harmful levels of
asbestos. The final report concluded that: 1)the dust levels in
Ambler were a public health hazard for the community; 2)
asbestos levels resulting from riding an ATV on the gravel roads
posed an unacceptable public health risk; and 3) most asbestos
fibers found in Ambler were shorter in length. The final
recommendations were to: 1) close access to the gravel pit; 2)
stop using gravel from the pit; 3) place a barrier and clean
fill where children may have contact with contaminated soil; and
4) educate the community about asbestos and dust.
CHAIR FRENCH asked Dr. McLaughlin to send him a copy of the
report.
DR. MCLAUGHLIN agreed.
2:16:23 PM
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI referred to the third bullet point on page
2 of the May 20, 2005 report, and asked the name of the DHSS
epidemiologist who visited Maniilaq.
DR. MCLAUGHLIN recalled that it was Dr. Marc Chimonas, and
offered to follow up if that was incorrect. He added that Dr.
Chimonas worked with DHSS but was from the U.S. Centers for
Disease Control and Prevention.
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI reviewed the chest x-ray and pleural change
data in the second bullet point and asked how it compared to
national or statewide averages.
DR. MCLAUGHLIN offered to follow up with the information.
2:18:37 PM
MORGAN JOHNSON, Mayor, City of Ambler, Ambler, AK, urged the
committee to pass SB 180 with the 0.25 percent NOA threshold.
2:20:20 PM
SCOTT JONES, Vice-Mayor, City of Ambler, Ambler, AK, confirmed
that dust was a problem in Ambler when conditions were dry. In
fact, the 2005 report said it was difficult to measure the
asbestos levels because of the dust. He described palliative
measures to control dust and said masks and respirators were
commonly used. Referring to the chest x-ray data in the 2005
report, he said it did not take into consideration the number of
smokers. He reviewed the existing gravel pits in the Ambler area
and asked the committee to set the standard so that 0.25 percent
was equivalent to zero contamination.
CHAIR FRENCH asked how many of the projects that Ambler needed
were roads and how many were non-roads.
MR. JONES replied most of the pending projects need gravel.
These include foundations for houses, capping the road to the
gravel pit, erosion control, and the Grizzly Bridge and road to
the airport.
CHAIR FRENCH restated the question.
MR. JONES estimated that more than half of the projects were
road-related.
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI asked if it was typically very windy in
Ambler.
MR. JONES replied it could be very windy at times.
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI asked if it might be a problem to have a
gravel pit near town that generated dust that contained
asbestos.
MR. JONES replied the gravel pit caused minor problems because
the area was not silty. The road to the airport was much more
problematic, because the crush and fill material was mostly
silt. In conclusion, he reiterated the importance of adopting
the 0.25 percent standard as equivalent to zero contamination.
CHAIR FRENCH pointed out that the original bill set the standard
at equal to or less than 0.25 percent and the current version
said equal to or more than 0.25 percent, which was appreciably
higher.
MR. JONES said he had lived in Ambler for four years and had yet
to see any asbestos-related health problems.
CHAIR FRENCH pointed out page two of the report said, "Of 28
residents of Ambler whose chest x-rays were reviewed, 2 had
pleural changes that were probably caused by prior exposure to
asbestos."
MAYOR JOHNSON said he would like to see more dust abatement
measures to protect current and future generations. He added
that Ambler had an opportunity if a nearby mine were to open.
2:32:15 PM
ELIZABETH SAAGULIK HENSLEY, Corporate and Public Policy Liaison,
NANA Regional Corporation, stated support for SB 180. She
highlighted that NANA closed the gravel pit after becoming aware
in 2003 that the gravel contained NOA. NANA was also aware that
there were ways to work with the gravel and mitigate potential
risks, and they were willing to do that.
2:33:55 PM
LANCE MILLER, Vice President of Resources, NANA Regional
Corporation, said that in the discussion about dust and the use
of gravel that contains NOA, it was important to realize that
Ambler was under snow for a significant number of months each
year. He said NANA would be willing to change the upper limit
and perhaps the lower percentage if that would help move the
bill along. He said it was important to remember that El Dorado
County California successfully addressed the issue and those
asbestos levels were higher than typically found in the Ambler
area. There are ways to mitigate the asbestos with SOPs and
proper protections for workers and construction projects, he
stated.
CHAIR FRENCH pointed out that the California Air Resources Board
took steps to mitigate the use of NOA and set the allowable
level at less than 0.25 percent. He said another difference was
that California did not offer the immunity that SB 180 offered.
The immunity provision was a central concern of the bill
proponents and that was why the committee was wrestling with it,
he said.
He asked Ms. Hensley if she had considered saying that the
gravel should contain no more than 0.5 percent NOA.
MS. HENSLEY replied NANA would consider a different level.
MR. MILLER said NANA would have to think hard about 0.5 percent.
CHAIR FRENCH urged them to think about some compromise because
0.25 or greater did not have an upper limit.
MR. MILLER said NANA would agree to an upper limit. He added
that a lot of the material in the area was in the 0.1, 0.25, to
0.5 range, and California recognized 0.25 percent as NOA free.
SENATOR COGHILL said he understood the bill to say that a
certified plan would be required when NOA levels were equal to
or greater than 0.25 percent. He surmised that the higher the
level of NOA, the tighter the plan would be.
MR. SCOTT agreed.
CHAIR FRENCH referred to page 4, line 17, and asked if the bill
offered immunity when the gravel or other aggregate material had
equal to or greater than 0.25 percent naturally occurring
asbestos by mass.
MR. SCOTT said yes.
CHAIR FRENCH pointed out that, as written, the bill offered
immunity if the level was 0.5 percent, 1.0 percent, or 5.0
percent NOA.
SENATOR COGHILL offered his understanding that the plan differed
based on the level of NOA in the aggregate material.
CHAIR FRENCH asked Ms. Anjilvel to comment.
2:41:35 PM
SARITHA ANJILVEL, Assistant Attorney General, Civil Division,
Department of Law (DOL), said she was advising DOTPF. She
offered her understanding that regulations prescribe for each
project a site-specific plan that takes into account the amounts
of naturally occurring asbestos.
CHAIR FRENCH asked if the bill, as currently drafted,
established an upper limit of NOA that the gravel could contain.
MS. ANJILVEL answered no.
CHAIR FRENCH observed that the bill could potentially offer
immunity to people who use aggregate that had two percent
naturally occurring asbestos.
MS. ANJILVEL replied that was the correct reading, but
regulations could be promulgated to require the site-specific
plan to balance the use of gravel that contained high
concentrations of NOA against how economically reasonable it was
to go elsewhere to find gravel.
CHAIR FRENCH asked if there was a definition of "economically
unreasonable."
MS. ANJILVEL answered no, but DOTPF as accustomed to using the
concept, as it related to doing projects in the best interest of
the state. A complicating factor was that because there was no
safe level of asbestos, DOTPF had to strike a balance between
getting the project done and any potential risk. As Mr. Healy
testified, taking proper mitigation procedures struck that
balance. The more likely the asbestos was to cause a hazard, the
more DOTPF would scrutinize the project to see if it was
economically reasonable to use that material.
2:45:41 PM
CHAIR FRENCH commented that DOTPF would probably work harder if
they were potentially liable.
MS. ANJILVEL agreed that immunity removed a protection.
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI asked if she believed that it was possible
to make the use of NOA safe for everyone involved.
MS. ANJILVEL replied she did not have the expertise to answer.
2:46:50 PM
CHAIR FRENCH closed public testimony and held SB 180 in
committee.