Legislature(2021 - 2022)BUTROVICH 205
04/25/2022 03:30 PM Senate RESOURCES
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| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| Confirmation Hearing(s) | |
| SB133 | |
| SB229 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| += | SB 133 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| += | SB 229 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | TELECONFERENCED | ||
SB 133-REMOTE RECREATIONAL SITES; SALES; PERMITS
3:56:12 PM
VICE CHAIR MICCICHE announced the consideration of SENATE BILL
NO. 133 "An Act relating to the sale or lease of state land for
remote recreational sites; relating to permits for remote
recreational sites; and providing for an effective date."
He noted that this was the third hearing in this committee, the
second this session.
3:57:47 PM
CHRISTY COLLES, Chief of Operations, Division of Mining, Land,
and Water, Department of Natural Resources, Anchorage, Alaska,
stated that SB 133 would allow the department to offer state
land for recreational purposes. It would amend portions of the
existing Remote Recreational Cabin Staking Program statutes to
increase opportunities for Alaska residents to identify a remote
cabin site. It does this by expanding the pool of land where a
person can nominate a staking site to include existing lands
classified as settlements and all vacant, unappropriated or
unreserved land.
MS. COLLES stated that it would also prescribe a process to be
followed by the public and agency when adjudicating a nomination
to lease, purchase, or permit state land for a recreational
place. The bill would provide the commissioner authority to
identify areas where land is properly classified as recreational
sites suitable for disposal as remote sites and offer those
lands for staking. It would also allow Alaskans to nominate land
for disposal and establish a 10-acre parcel that may be staked
by an eligible participant while requiring specific information
for identifying the staked parcels.
3:59:17 PM
MS. COLLES stated that the commissioner could then approve such
disposals at their discretion without a written best interest
finding. SB 133 directs the commissioner to establish
regulations to implement the program. This process requires the
applicant to survey and appraise the site, and for the
commissioner to set the sales price at fair market value.
MS. COLLES indicated that the next component of the bill would
establish a process for leasing a remote recreational site. This
process would provide a timeframe for surveying and appraising
sites as well as a requirement for marking parcel boundaries and
allows for an initial 10-year leasing term and two additional
10-year leasing periods while restricting some of the
assignments or leasing and allowing for termination of a lease
for non-compliance. She stated that this would be a step someone
could take. The last component of the bill would enable the
department to issue a recreational site permit for up to 20
years. This process would allow the commissioner to revoke
permits or terminate them for any reason. Still, the department
would need to adopt regulations to specify lands eligible for a
remote recreational site. Permit holders could apply to lease or
purchase the permanent site during their 25-year permit term.
4:00:47 PM
SENATOR STEVENS related his understanding that this would not
prevent development, but it would require the applicant to build
a remote cabin. He asked what requirements someone who obtains
the property must comply with.
MS. COLLES answered that the department does not require an
applicant to prove up by building a cabin or structure. It was
more about having the property surveyed, appraised, and signing
a contract. One provision in the bill would allow the state to
issue a contract for 30 years instead of 20 years.
4:01:48 PM
SENATOR KIEHL raised questions from a previous meeting. He
recalled that one question was the historic average parcel size
for this type of land disposal. He asked whether there was a
public notice when a parcel transitions from being permitted to
being leased.
VICE CHAIR MICCICHE asked for a copy of the letter from DNR for
Senator Kiehl.
4:02:44 PM
At ease
4:03:48 PM
VICE CHAIR MICCICHE reconvened the meeting.
4:03:59 PM
MS. COLLES answered that since 2001, 807 of the 937 parcels were
purchased, totaling 10,655 acres. The average parcel size was
13.2 acres. She said if a site were nominated, it would go
through the leasing and sales provisions. She stated that it
would go through the public noticing if the land was not
properly classified, so it depends on the classification of the
land. The commissioner's list of lands that could be sold or
leased is exempt from the best interest finding, but it would
not prevent the department from public noticing.
4:05:27 PM
SENATOR KAWASAKI asked whether the remote recreational site
updates some existing language to include settlements. He
wondered how much extra land the term settlements would
consist of and whether it would double or triple the total
amount authorized under the current cabin staking program.
MS. COLLES answered that she was unsure whether it would double
it. Still, the current remote recreational cabin staking program
might consist of 10,000 acres, but the department would only
allow 100 people to stake a maximum of 20 acres within the area.
She said the department would limit the number of people who
could stake in that area. This would open it up to any
settlement lands or vacant, unappropriated, or reserved land.
She stated that the department had not completely calculated the
amount of land, but she offered to provide it. She envisioned
that the department could increase the number of people who
could go out and stake a parcel. She explained that currently,
the department would write a decision for a specific area with a
maximum number of people who could stake in that area.
4:07:05 PM
SENATOR KAWASAKI related his understanding that the department
was unclear about how much larger the settlement land or the
vacant, unappropriated land was compared to the current size of
the staking program.
MS. COLLES responded that she did not have those figures in
front of her today. She offered to provide the information to
the committee.
4:07:32 PM
SENATOR KAWASAKI pointed out the department had several staking
programs, including one for personal use cabins for
approximately 150 families dating back to the 1950s, a trapping
cabin permit program, and the remote recreational cabin sites.
He indicated that the programs were complicated because the
staking programs had different rules. He wondered whether there
was a way to consider the staking programs collectively rather
than having programs that overlap.
MS. COLLES agreed that the department had multiple types of
cabin programs. She related that Senator Micciche's bill
regarding the Personal Use Cabin Permit (PUCP) program refers to
cabins built on state land for recreational purposes without
proper authorization. In the 1980s, the department developed a
permitting program to address these recreational cabins, but it
prohibited anyone from building a personal use structure. She
related that the PUCP program would sunset because it disallows
the transfer of properties.
MS. COLLES stated that SB 133 would open the permitting process
to the general public to obtain recreational property. It would
also allow PUCP holders to apply for a 25-year permit and, if
appropriate, move to a lease or purchase. She explained that the
trapping cabin permits were developed in the 1980s solely for
the commercial trapping community and included reduced fees to
allow trappers to live a certain quality of life. She
acknowledged that the department has numerous programs, but they
all have different purposes. She said most are for commercial
purposes, but SB 133 is more specific to personal recreational
use.
4:10:38 PM
SENATOR KAWASAKI recalled discovering that the remote
recreational cabin staking was fairly prescriptive when he
worked on a similar bill. He related his understanding that DNR
established rules for people staking land in remote, vacant, or
unappropriated areas because the department might discover later
that the staked land had affected the rights-of-way for nearby
gas or oil leases or within an RS2477 right-of-way. If so, the
cabin might need to be destroyed. He asked whether that could
happen given the department's rules to establish which lands are
available for the existing remote recreational cabin staking
program.
MS. COLLES responded that was why the department would consider
lands classified as settlement lands or vacant and
unappropriated land. She stated that lands with a mineral
classification would not be included in the commissioner's list
of available lands. Further, the department would adopt
regulations to consider RS2477 and other easements. For
instance, if someone wanted to nominate or develop land in an
area, the department would have to perform its due diligence to
ensure there were no conflicts or better use for the state. She
stated that would be part of the adjudication process. The same
thing would be valid for existing personal use cabins. They may
qualify for nominating, but some cabins are in legislatively-
designated areas, so the department cannot dispose of the land
due to their classification.
4:13:15 PM
SENATOR KIEHL recalled that this bill would allow the
commissioner to reclassify any land. He asked what would prevent
a future commissioner from reclassifying mineral land.
MS. COLLES responded that the department has a statutory process
for reclassifying land. She related that it would require a very
prescriptive finding under AS 38.05.945. Thus, if lands are not
correctly classified, the department would go through the
reclassification process, including public noticing and agency
noticing, and be subject to an appeal.
4:14:48 PM
SENATOR KIEHL pointed out that she had referred to AS 38.05.945,
but the bill references reclassification under AS 38.04.065 and
38.05.300. He asked how these processes differ.
MS. COLLES answered you are correct. She explained that those
classification statutes reference AS 38.05.945.
4:15:38 PM
SENATOR KIEHL offered his view that this program is fraught with
issues and is not popular, noting that the department has issued
approximately 37 permits yearly since 2001. He compared that to
DNR's program, which is not a staking program, where the
department selects land, subdivides it, plats, surveys, and
records it. DNR uses several sales mechanisms to sell the land
to Alaskans. He said the program does not have a 14 percent
failure rate like the staking programs. He recalled that the
department sells 200 parcels per year under that program, which
demonstrates how popular that program is to Alaskans. He said
that in keeping with the administration's goal to keep more land
in private ownership, a more productive approach would be for
the department to create cabin subdivisions and sell them. He
offered that doing so would avoid endless reclassification
applications, controversies about recreational land
classification, habitat land, or future use by non-cabin
purposes, and removing the prove-up requirement. He wondered if
it would be more productive for DNR to create cabin subdivisions
and sell them.
4:17:52 PM
SENATOR MICCICHE suggested that each program had different
purposes and that some DNR programs may not be popular in
Southeast Alaska. He indicated that he had participated in
staking programs and had found them quite popular in some areas
of the state. He asked what the department's rationale was for
some programs and why some might be more attractive than others.
4:18:47 PM
MS. COLLES responded that the department created programs for
different purposes. For example, the subdivision sales have a
shared lot line. The Remote Recreational Sites do not have road
access and must be accessed by planes, ATVs, or snowmachines.
She related that those are auctioned with a minimum bid. They
are typically more expensive than the remote recreational cabin
staking sites. She offered her view that the difference relates
to the nomination. She suggested that the department would have
more success with individuals contacting DNR who want to locate
their recreational site in a specific area. Currently, it is
possible to nominate land, but it is not at the same level as
this program. This program would provide a solid path for those
seeking to establish a site, not just through lease or sale, but
by permit. She characterized it as similar to the PUCP, which is
no longer available. She explained that people might want to
think about where to purchase land, and the program provides
another way to decide if the location is an area they are
interested in purchasing.
4:21:02 PM
SENATOR KIEHL responded that it is a little incongruous to point
to the necessity of staking for the more remote areas when SB
133 removes any such requirement.
4:21:28 PM
At ease
4:21:42 PM
VICE CHAIR MICCICHE reconvened the meeting and solicited the
will of the committee.
4:21:48 PM
SENATOR STEVENS moved to report SB 133, work order 32-GS1026\A,
from committee with individual recommendations and attached
fiscal note(s).
VICE CHAIR MICCICHE found no objection, and SB 133 was reported
from the Senate Resources Standing Committee.
| Document Name | Date/Time | Subjects |
|---|---|---|
| Glenn Haight CFEC Application_Redacted.pdf |
SRES 4/25/2022 3:30:00 PM |
|
| Glenn Haight Cover Letter and Resume for CFEC Position_Redacted.pdf |
SRES 4/25/2022 3:30:00 PM |
|
| SB 133 Committee Follow-Up 2.8.22.pdf |
SRES 4/25/2022 3:30:00 PM |
SB 133 |
| SB 229 Sponsor Statement 3.10.22.pdf |
SRES 4/25/2022 3:30:00 PM |
SB 229 |
| O.pdf |
SRES 4/25/2022 3:30:00 PM |
SB 229 |
| UFA Letter of Support for Glenn Haight.pdf |
SRES 4/25/2022 3:30:00 PM |