Legislature(2007 - 2008)BELTZ 211
03/13/2007 01:30 PM Senate LABOR & COMMERCE
| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| SB101 | |
| SB97 | |
| SB18 | |
| SB99 | |
| HB108 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| *+ | SB 99 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| *+ | SB 18 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | HB 108 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| += | SB 97 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| += | SB 101 | TELECONFERENCED | |
SB 99-POLICE STANDARDS COUNCIL MEMBERSHIP
1:58:42 PM
CHAIR ELLIS announced SB 99 to be up for consideration.
SENATOR FRENCH, sponsor of SB 99, read the sponsor statement. It
adds three certified police officers with at least five years of
experience working with the police to the Alaska Police
Standards Council (APSC). He said the idea is to allow those who
are charged with the daily enforcement of the law to have input
into their training standards as participating members of the
state's board which certifies police officers.
At present, the APSC is the only board in state government that
does not have any representation by the group most affected by
its decisions. Although the APSC has seats assigned to the
chiefs of police, the commissioners of public safety and
corrections and to members of the public, it has no line
officers on the board. By contrast, he said, according to a
survey done by Legislative Research staff of 10 western states,
only two have no line officers on their police standards boards.
SENATOR FRENCH stated that he has no quarrel with the APSC and
believes it has done a fine job, but he thought it could benefit
from the presence of line officers who could bring their
particular experience and perspective to the board.
SENATOR BUNDE asked if a specific problem generated the
legislation.
SENATOR FRENCH replied no; he just thought it would provide more
balance and harmony with both the police and the board - between
those who are regulating and those who are being regulated.
SENATOR STEVENS asked what the composition of the council is
now.
SENATOR FRENCH listed the members referencing page 1 of the
bill. It's made up of 4 chief administrative officers or chiefs
of police, a commissioner of public safety or a designee, a
commissioner of corrections or designee, one correctional
administrative officer who is employed at the level of deputy
director or higher and 4 members of the public at large with at
least 2 from a community of 2,500 or less.
2:02:08 PM
JOHN CYR, Executive Director, Public Safety Employees
Association (PSEA), added some background to the issue. He said
about 35 years ago the Alaska Police Standards Council (APSC)
was created. Since 1972, however, the state has changed
significantly; the population has grown and problems confronting
officers have changed. Officers have to be versatile, organized
and extremely well-trained. He said, "Giving those who work
closest to crime a voice in the decision-making body that had
direct effect on the training officers receive and the standards
by which they work should be encouraged and welcomed."
He supported SB 99 because it adds three rank and file officers
to the Alaska Police Standards Council - however, it keeps the
composition of the Council at 11 members and keeps operating
expenses within its budget. It adds three police officers by
reducing the number of chief administrative officers or chiefs
of police from four to three and it reduces the public members
from four to two. It allows three representatives of police who
are working law enforcement officers with five years of
experience to serve. He emphasized that their years of
experience are critical in the training of officers.
SENATOR BUNDE asked if a particular incident prompted the
legislation.
MR. CYR replied no; but rather they want more direct input into
promulgating regulations and especially the training component.
SENATOR BUNDE commented that it's not broken, but we're going to
fix it anyway.
MR. CYR responded in his mind he wants folks to do a better job
in the field. Their decisions are critical and they should have
some say in their regulation as a matter of fairness.
2:08:10 PM
SENATOR BUNDE asked if the Council sets the standards for
training.
MR. CYR replied to a large degree, yes.
SENATOR STEVENS asked if the Council has anything to do with the
Academy and does it establish promotion standards.
MR. CYR replied that their packets list training, standards and
curriculum and compared them to teaching standards. It has
nothing to do with promotion.
SENATOR STEVENS asked if there is a connection between the
Council and the State Academy.
MR. CYR replied that the Council sets the Academy's standards.
2:10:46 PM
SERGEANT TARA TIPPET, Patrol Division, Fairbanks Police
Department, gave her credentials and reasons she thought her
extensive police experience would add much to the Council. She
is a certified police instructor and she has personally attended
over 4,000 hours of police training. She also became a national
certified and through delivering law enforcement training, she
has trained over 1,700 multi-disciplinary students within 700
hours of training.
She said that SB 99 corrects a basic fairness issue. The APSC is
the only board in Alaska that doesn't include members of those
who are licensed by it. She said that many states include rank
and file members on their council committees. Those members
participate in the process of developing standards, training and
curriculum for public safety officers.
She recapped that officers selected to serve on APSC will have
at least five years of police experience giving them a depth and
breadth of knowledge regarding policing issues. These officers
will broaden the base involvement at the APSC and can provide a
from-the-ground-up flow of communication and input that will be
invaluable. "Every police officer in the State of Alaska has a
stake in the decisions that are made by APSC and could
potentially affect their careers."
SERGEANT TIPPET reasoned that APSC currently has seven people
who are in top administrative positions in law enforcement and
corrections for civilians. Participation by representatives from
these groups is very important and rather than increase the
number of Council members, SB 99 proposes a change to the number
of people in two groups, chief administrative officers or chiefs
of police and civilians. For that reason these groups are still
adequately represented, but there is no additional fiscal note
and it will still fall within budget.
There are far more police officers in the State of Alaska than
there are chief administrators or chief of police. Yet their
representation on APSC will be equal. He reasoned:
There are far more civilians than police officers in
the State of Alaska; their positions will only be
reduced by one and although their interests are very
important and the public certainly has the right to be
represented, the police have a much closer vested
interest in the decisions that are made by APSC.
2:15:29 PM
SENATOR BUNDE asked if she were on the Council, could she
envision a problem with passing judgment on someone who has her
back the next time they go out on a call.
SERGEANT TIPPET responded, "Sir, I have no desire to retain bad
thoughts. There is no room for dishonest or disreputable police
officers on any police force anywhere in the United States and
certainly not here where I'm serving in the State of Alaska. I
certainly have personally no issue with performing such a role."
SENATOR STEVENS asked if this is a volunteer or paid position.
SERGEANT TIPPET replied because this has not been enacted, she
didn't know how it would happen. She saw value in serving on a
voluntary basis in that position and would petition her chief
for some happy medium for having time away to be able to
participate in such an important role.
CHAIR ELLIS directed the question to Senator French.
SENATOR FRENCH replied that he understands it to be a volunteer
position.
2:17:40 PM
ROB COX, President, Public Safety Employees Association (PSEA),
said he has been employed as an Alaska State Trooper for 16
years - 14 of those years as a DPS and APSC certified instructor
and instructor trainer. He believed that APSC has done a good
job in determining training criteria, but some gaps will exist
when there is no avenue for participation by those subject to
the criteria that are set by APSC. As a trainer and an officer
who works a patrol shift, he believes that he and officers like
him offer practical perspectives to the APSC regarding how
training courses impact the performance of police duties in the
field. He explained:
It can be very difficult to understanding the
practicality and impact of training policy, course
content from a policy-making position without input
from and a discussion with the so-called boots on the
ground. Additionally, when training is determined and
implemented with mutual discussion, inclusion and
inclusive acceptance then the acceptance at the field
level increases. Specific valuable input that would be
provided by having well-respected and experienced
police officers on the APSC include: 1)
appropriateness of course length; 2) practical
certification requirements; 3) logical course syllabi;
4) appropriate APSC instructor requirements; 5)
ongoing APSC instructor improvement courses; 6)
pertinence of course content based upon up-to-date
road experience; and 7) effective legislative actions
on practical law enforcement and how this impacts
training and training criteria - to name a few.
The vast majority, I believe, of the police officers
in the State of Alaska are highly motivated,
qualified, and professional individuals who desire to
reach their full occupational potential in terms of
understanding and fulfilling their enforcement
duties....
SENATOR STEVENS asked how he saw this being funded in terms of
working out volunteering for pay and asked if members could be
compensated with time?
MR. COX replied this would be a voluntary position. Those
officers who would potentially sit on APSC under SB 99 would not
necessarily be APSC members. The governor's function of
appointing the officers is still preserved.
SENATOR STEVENS was concerned about additional costs to the
Kodiak Police Department. He asked if a member is from another
community, who pays for him to get to a meeting that isn't held
there and how often did he think the meetings would occur.
MR. COX replied that he didn't know the details, but that the
number of members was not increased and a number of those who
sit on the council now are from various police departments
around the state. So he guessed there already was some provision
for travel compensation.
2:23:44 PM
SENATOR BUNDE asked how many officers are in the PSEA.
MR. COX replied that he didn't know - more are outside of the
union than in it.
SENATOR BUNDE speculated there would be ample opportunity for
both union and non-union members to be on the council and
informed them that members of boards and commissions receive a
per-diem.
2:24:46 PM
BRIAN DALLAS, Juneau Police Department, read his statement that
supported previous testimony and SB 99. He said that adding
officers to APSC would bring the high standards of their front-
line knowledge and experience to the APSC training program.
2:27:58 PM
WALT MONEGAN, Commissioner, Department of Public Safety (DPS),
said he was a police chief and member of the Anchorage Police
Department for almost 33 years. In that time he sat on board of
APSC. He was also an APSC instructor for about 12 years. He
commended everyone who spoke so far; they are high caliber
individuals.
He said when training comes to APSC's attention comes from the
departments. It wouldn't know what a TASER was until someone
brought it to their attention. The course on TASER training
would be put together by the subject matter experts - in this
case the instructors of any various departments' staff and then
presented through their chain of command up to the chief and the
chief would eventually see that it was brought up to APSC for
certification. He agreed with having input from the people who
are actually out on the streets, but it is already done that
way. APSC does not formulate these policies or training
guidelines just out of the blue. "So, the input is there."
COMMISSIONER MONEGAN said they do not want bad officers in any
department, but what is missing, in his mind, is a dialogue
between the PSEA or any union and the APSC Board, itself. This
has not been an agenda item that APSC has entertained or looked
at.
He said that communication is the lifeblood of all relationships
and that includes APSC and the members that it certifies or
decertifies. Finding out about this issue is counterintuitive to
a good cooperative working relationship. He suggested giving
them an opportunity to discuss this within the Council first
before rushing off and changing something that they didn't know
was broken before this.
2:32:21 PM
SENATOR BUNDE said he was concerned with cutting the number of
public members from four to two.
COMMISSIONER MONEGAN replied he was also concerned that the
public needs to see what they do as a police agency. By cutting
the public membership from four to two, this bill would
compromise that transparency. He said that people sometimes
think that civilian review boards might be the right answer, but
everything he has ever read and heard is that they are not.
Initially they start out great guns, but eventually they blend
and become part of the department because they work so closely
together. He explained:
We need to keep that objectivity and APSC provides
that right now - because of the distance and the
experience and the civilian participation. Something -
that we make decisions based on fact not on emotion.
I'm not saying it couldn't be done otherwise, but my
experience has shown that in times at APD, in my
tenure there, I did come across very emotional
responses to actions and decisions I have made.
2:34:25 PM
SENATOR STEVENS asked how frequent the meetings are and what the
locations were.
COMMISSIONER MONEGAN replied they try to meet twice a year on a
rotation basis between Juneau or Fairbanks and Anchorage - for
transportation purposes. Meetings are an open forum with a lot
of discussion. They usually last one day, but can stretch out
longer. He said there is always a lot of discussion from all
sides.
2:35:41 PM
TERRY VRABEC, Director, Alaska Police Standards Council, said he
served as a police line officer, supervisor and as a chief of
police. He said the Council has concerns with the line officers
replacing higher ranking chief executive officers. They feel
that the wealth of knowledge and experience is very important in
dealing with very sensitive issues on the Council.
Another concern he heard expressed was having multiple union
representation spots on the Council. He explained when a
potential decertification case comes to the Council, if its
chief of police is on it, he does not participate in the vote.
The concern is that if several union representatives were on the
Council and they had a member before it, they would not be able
to vote on the issue at hand. A lot of potential decertification
issues involve officers that may be with an organized unit. He
added that an appeals process is available with a hearing
officer picked by the governor's office.
MR. VRABEC clarified that the Council covers the costs for the
members' travel to meetings. The only out-of-pocket cost is for
officer time and usually the departments are supportive of that.
He expressed the desire to work with the various bargaining
units and wanted to put this issue on the next agenda for public
discussion before it comes before the legislature again.
SENATOR BUNDE asked if a union member would have to declare a
conflict on a decision that would affect a fellow union member.
MR. VRABEC replied yes.
SENATOR BUNDE said he wanted clarification from Legislative
Legal on that.
2:39:34 PM
JOHN LUCKING, Chief of Police, City of Soldotna, said he has
climbed up through the ranks and holds high regard for all of
the individuals who are testifying and he thought the Council's
good work and composition as it now stands has served well in
weeding out some of the bad and maintaining the best. After
reviewing SB 99 he was immediately concerned about the proposed
changes to the composition of the Council and how that might
affect accountability and discipline in law enforcement within
the state. He said:
The Council's mission is about standards, training and
accountability and the removal of two public seats and
a chief seat and replacement with union officers
would, to me, bring an imbalance to this council. To
maintain integrity and public trust I believe that a
chief with, you know, with many years of experience
has a need for broader vision, has direct
accountability to the public through being an at-will
employee. And citizens that have volunteered to serve
on this board with no vested interests are just much
more capable and create a cleaner composition - when
it comes to discipline - than would a police officer
who is a union member of a union, who by its very
nature, who is obligated to stand up for and defend
and represent the interests of their members at every
level of discipline. So, I think it would be difficult
in compromising, in some instances, in that regard."
MR. LUCKING gave an example where he decertified someone and the
city attorney negotiated a deal afterwards and he had no power
to change that decision. In short, he thought the unions would
support the issues that would make their service on the Council
very difficult. He saw it as a removal of public trust.
2:43:33 PM
JEFF MARTIN, Senior Police Officer, Anchorage Police Department,
said he is a member of the APEA and that he had been with the
department since 1990. Over that time he has been awarded with
Canine Officer of the Year in 1997 and Police Officer of the
Year in 1998, along with numerous police commendations.
His testimony is from a unique perspective because in 1999 his
police certificate was forwarded to the Alaska Police Standard
Council for decertification. He argued that a majority of
members should remain higher ranking administrators because of
their education, training, life-experience and leadership
abilities better prepare them to deal with complex issues that
the APSC is faced with.
MR. MARTIN said he also looked at it as a checks and balance
issue. "Somebody has to police the police when the time calls."
2:46:15 PM
CHUCK KOPP, Chairman, Alaska Police Standards Council, and Chief
of Police for the City of Kenai, focused on some of the comments
about the abilities of the chief administrative officers on the
Council to understand the experiences of the troops on the
ground. His response is that the chiefs on the Council right now
are all life-time career Alaskan law enforcement officers that
have resume's rich in experience and diversity in all patrol,
investigative and administrative functions. He has found that
the network in the minds of the people that serve on the Council
is very diverse in the sense of the need to understand how an
officer's actions affect a community.
He said that everyone understands that perspectives change with
more responsibility. This issue has never been brought to his
attention as a problem as Council chair. He spoke with Mr. Cyr
last week who told him he did not have a specific issue in mind
and he asked if it's not broke, what is to fix.
He encouraged letting them have a public dialogue at the APSC
meeting coming up in April that coincides with Alaska Peace
Officers Association Crime Conference, the largest conference of
training for officers in Alaska. The Council could provide a
resolution of support or not and the reasoning behind it. The
Alaska Association of Chiefs of Police meeting immediately
follows and those agencies probably represent the folks that are
most impacted by a structural change to the Council and are in
the best position to come forward with a resolution that he
would hope the Legislature would want to hear.
MR. KOPP said he thought the integrity of the Council would
suffer in the eyes of the public if the two public positions
were replaced with three officers nominated by organized labor.
He has spoken to all of the Council members and they are a
strong group; not one of them is afraid to look at this issue.
The reasons for composing it this way were very wise and he said
this change is very significant.
2:52:30 PM
CHAIR ELLIS said he would hold SB 99 for further consideration.
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