Legislature(2009 - 2010)BUTROVICH 205
02/23/2009 01:30 PM Senate HEALTH & SOCIAL SERVICES
| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| SB32 | |
| SB52 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| *+ | SB 98 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| += | SB 52 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | TELECONFERENCED | ||
| = | SB 32 | ||
SB 52-SALVIA DIVINORUM AS CONTROLLED SUBSTANCE
2:07:51 PM
CHAIR DAVIS announced consideration of SB 52.
SENATOR THERRIAULT, sponsor of SB 52, said the legislation
before the committee is a reintroduction of a previous bill that
would move to place salvia divinorum onto the list of controlled
substances. This drug is primarily grown in the mountainous
regions of Mexico; it has a history of use as a vision-inducing
substance by the Aztec Indians of the region. Because it is so
easy to misuse and can produce long-term psychological effects,
it has been banned in several countries and a growing number of
states across the nation.
The leaves of this perennial herb, once processed, can be eaten,
can be drunk as tea or inhaled. It is presently available to
people in Alaska who choose to order it on the internet and,
although purchasers of the substance are asked if they are 18
years of age or older, those restrictions are very loosely
applied. Sellers promise that it will produce mind-altering
experiences, but experts warn that that depression and
schizophrenia are very real risks with this drug.
SENATOR THERRIAULT said he has received some criticism over the
past couple of years for introducing the legislation, by people
who say that the if they don't want their children to use the
drug, they shouldn't introduce legislation that will generate
headlines. That pretends the word doesn't spread over the
internet on sites like My Space and Facebook that are frequented
by young people. Salvia is enjoying a rise in use due to its
powerful effects; he asked that Alaska follow the lead of many
other countries and states and put this on the list of
controlled substances along with peyote, mescaline and LSD.
2:10:38 PM
SENATOR ELLIS asked what Senator Therriault's response would be
to the religious freedom argument that some folks have made to
the committee and to members of the Alaska Libertarian Party
regarding the personal freedom of adults aspect of this issue.
2:11:15 PM
SENATOR THERRIAULT answered that he would say, from the
libertarian perspective, while he tends to agree with them on
many things, this is in the same category as mescaline and LSD
and the state does not give people the freedom to order that
over the Internet and exercise their free will to use those
drugs. The society has realized that there are certain
substances that cause damage to the individual and society as a
whole that is great enough to justify putting restrictions on
them. He did not see the religious argument as any different
from the argument surrounding peyote and that has been placed on
the controlled substances list. He would guess that if
scheduling this drug causes a problem, they already have that
problem with the drugs they have listed, yet he does not hear
people asking that legislation be introduced to remove the
restriction on those other drugs.
2:12:25 PM
SENATOR PASKVAN questioned whether Senator Therriault had asked
the Alaska Medical Association about this, or if the American
Medical Association has produced any type of study that puts
this particular drug in a specific category.
DAVE STANCLIFF, staff to Senator Therriault, said there has been
a fair amount of debate as to how this substance reacts in the
mind and it is unique among all other hallucinogenics. There is
ongoing research by both the Alaska Medical Association and the
American Medical Association with regard to how it might be used
safely in a medical setting and this bill does not preclude the
use of this substance for medical studies.
SENATOR PASKVAN pointed out Mr. Stancliff's use of the term
"misuse" and wanted to know what the difference is in these
studies between appropriate use and misuse.
2:14:02 PM
MR. STANCLIFF said his research has revealed that there is no
quality control for this substance, so buyers don't know what
they are really getting. Also, frequent users of this and other
psychic substances state that they have not found a level that
is predictable; there is no way to predict what the reaction
will be from one use to the next. Since this is so much more
powerful than any other natural hallucinogenic substance, it
takes very little to induce a trance or put people into a
catatonic state if they use too much; even the most experienced
"mind travelers" warn about this particular substance. There is
no medical way at this point to measure or determine response.
2:15:46 PM
SENATOR PASKVAN assumed this would make users of salvia felons
and he wondered why it is classified that way.
MR. STANCLIFF said that in some states it is on Schedule I, but
they have chosen to put it on Schedule II because it seems to
have the same difficult properties as those other substances
have. He thinks they will hear from others in the administration
who can speak to exactly how Schedule II works in terms of the
degrees of criminality involved. Certainly it is no less
dangerous, and perhaps far more dangerous, than mescaline, LSD,
peyote and other drugs that are on this schedule. It might be
worth putting on record that since Senator Therriault started
this effort three years ago when he was aware of only one place
where a person could obtain this, it has escalated to the point
that smoke shops all over state are carrying it and 4,600 sites
on YouTube are showing people using it.
2:17:58 PM
SENATOR PASKVAN explained that what he is struggling with is the
concept of felony vs. misdemeanor vs. infraction for something
that he has heard no definitive medical statement about.
MR. STANCLIFF said he understands and doesn't know of anywhere
that those organizations have made a statement regarding what
degree of criminality would be appropriate.
2:18:41 PM
SENATOR THERRIAULT added that they are left to make comparisons
with the other drugs they have already listed and try to match
its effects with those of other substances on the list.
MR. STANCLIFF quoted from the Navy's Drug Detection and
Deterrence Branch:
There has been a recent interest among young adults and
adolescents to re-discover ethnobotanical plants that
can induce changes in perception, hallucinations, or
other psychologically-induced changes. … information
provided by abusers indicates that the negative long-
term effects of Salvia Divinorum may be similar to
those produced by other hallucinogens such as LSD
(lysergic acid diethylamide) including depression and
schizophrenia." The [Drug Enforcement Agency] DEA
states "It's a drug of concern because of its wide
availability and unknown long-term effects." And DEA
spokeswoman Rogene Waite said "...just because it
hasn't been scheduled doesn't mean it's safe or
healthy.... It's dangerous from what you can see from
anecdotal material.
2:20:03 PM
SENATOR ELLIS said he has gone on YouTube and watched some of
the videos and has no doubt it can be damaging, but wonders if
there is anything to include in the packet about the health
impacts of the substance to justify making it illegal.
2:21:01 PM
SENATOR THERRIAULT said placing it on controlled substance list
does just that; it could still be prescribed but is controlled
like many medications that pharmaceutical companies determine
have a beneficial use but are not available without a
prescription. He added that he is not aware of any scientific
research showing that it has any specific use; but if that were
determined in the future, the fact that it is on this list would
not preclude its use.
SENATOR THERRIAULT stated that he does have a letter of support
from the Advisory Board on Alcohol, Drug Abuse and Mental
Health.
2:22:22 PM
CHAIR DAVIS said she would think that if there is a concern from
a health standpoint someone would be here to testify to that.
They have heard this bill twice before and have not heard
anything from representatives of any health organizations or the
department.
CHAIR DAVIS asked the will of the committee.
2:24:02 PM
SENATOR DYSON moved to report SB 52 from committee with
individual recommendations and attached fiscal note(s).
SENATOR ELLIS said he would not object, but wanted it on the
record that he will be signing "no recommendation." He thinks
there are a few things still to be addressed before this becomes
law.
CHAIR DAVIS announced that SB 52 is moved from committee.
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