Legislature(2019 - 2020)FAHRENKAMP 203
03/27/2019 06:00 PM Senate JUDICIARY
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| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| SB23|| SB24 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| += | SB 23 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| += | SB 24 | TELECONFERENCED | |
SB 23-APPROP:SUPP. PAYMENTS OF PRIOR YEARS' PFD
SB 24-PFD SUPPLEMENTAL PAYMENTS
6:03:40 PM
CHAIR HUGHES announced that the only order of business would be
SENATE BILL NO. 23, "An Act making special appropriations from
the earnings reserve account for the payment of permanent fund
dividends; and providing for an effective date." and
[Before the committee was the CSSB 23(STA).]
SENATE BILL NO. 24, "An Act directing the Department of Revenue
to pay dividends to certain eligible individuals; and providing
for an effective date."
[Before the committee was CSSB 24(STA).]
6:03:51 PM
CHAIR HUGHES made opening remarks and provided the address for
testifiers to submit written public testimony
[email protected].
6:06:16 PM
CHAIR HUGHES opened public testimony on SB 23 and SB 24.
6:06:44 PM
LYNDA SAVANT, representing herself, Wasilla, spoke in support of
SB 23 and SB 24 because as a single mom she relies on the
permanent fund dividend. In response to Chair Hughes she said
she supported both SB 23 and SB 24.
6:07:41 PM
KRISTEN BUSH, representing herself, Eagle River, spoke in
support of SB 23 and SB 24. She offered her belief that what the
state has done with the permanent fund dividend is taxation
without representation. She said that children do not have a
voice. The permanent fund dividend program is not an entitlement
program but was related to citizens' mineral rights. She said it
was wrong in the first place [to reduce the PFDs] and she will
fight for all of Alaska.
6:08:56 PM
SHAWN DOCHTERMANN, representing himself, Kodiak, spoke in
opposition to SB 23 and SB 24. He said that as a 40-year
resident and fisherman in Kodiak he was adamantly opposed to SB
23 and SB 24. The PFD is an entitlement because people expect
the permanent fund dividend, he said. He said that Alaska has
problems funding state government, yet the governor wanted to
give back money from three years ago. He expressed a willingness
to give up the PFD for essential state services.
6:10:16 PM
GREGORY BARTLETT, representing himself, Soldotna, offered his
support for both bills.
6:10:51 PM
TANYA KITKA, representing herself, Kodiak, spoke in support of
SB 23 and SB 24. She urged members to support the historical
formula for calculating the permanent fund dividend. She said
that it only recently became an appropriation item on the
state's budget. She found it appalling that the legislature
allowed Governor Walker to single-handedly make the change. She
found it appalling that legislators were waffling on the issue.
6:12:08 PM
DON BULLOCK, representing himself, Juneau, stated his concern
about the constitutional issue raised by the residency
requirements in SB 24. He stated that the legislature has
dueling memos between the Legislative Legal Services and the
Department of Law. He found the memo by Emily Nauman to be more
convincing. He expressed concern that the bill requires a two-
year residency to qualify for the repayment, but said he was not
aware of any other program that would require two years of
residency. Under the bill, the first year of residency would be
based on the eligibility requirements in 2016, 2017, and 2018.
The additional requirement would be the residency requirements
in 2019-21. He pointed out that alternatives suggested by Ms.
Nauman should be considered, such as making the payment based on
the original qualification or the residency in 2019-21, but not
both qualifying periods.
6:13:41 PM
CHAIR HUGHES asked whether he supports the bill.
MR. BULLOCK answered that he has no opinion.
6:14:00 PM
JEFF KINNAN, representing himself, Sitka, spoke in support of SB
23 and SB 24. He said that tampering with the permanent fund
dividend would be a disaster for [legislators seeking re-
election]. He is 100 percent disabled and the permanent fund
dividend allows him discretionary income to travel and buy
gifts.
6:15:17 PM
CHARLES SIMON, representing himself, Hooper Bay, spoke in
support of SB 23 and SB 24. He supports the repayment of the
PFD.
6:15:58 PM}
JENNIFER REAGAN, representing herself, Wasilla, spoke in support
of SB 23 and SB 24. She said this is a right provided by the
Constitution of the State of Alaska.
6:16:51 PM
LYNDA MYERS, representing herself, Anchorage, said that she
resided in Alaska for the period 1969-2018. She said that the
government should not have taken it away from Alaskans in the
first place. She recalled that a portion was initially set aside
for government spending and a portion for the people. She said
that the legislature has gone overboard with spending. It needs
to go back to the people. She said the previous governor stole
the money.
6:19:09 PM
At-ease.
6:20:33 PM
CHAIR HUGHES reconvened the meeting.
6:20:55 PM
KAREN PERRY, representing herself, Chugiak, spoke in support of
SB 23 and SB 24. She supported a full statutory permanent fund
dividend. She expressed concern over government spending and
quoted from an article to support her concern. The permanent
fund dividend belongs to the people of Alaska. She supported
cutting government spending and returning the PFDs that were
stolen from Alaskans. She supported the historical statutory
PFD. No one can get away with breaking the law, including
legislators, she said.
6:23:03 PM
CHAIR HUGHES commented that the public can submit written
testimony to [email protected].
6:23:33 PM
CATHY HENDERSON, representing herself, Kenai, spoke in support
of SB 23. She said that she and her mother are disabled seniors.
The permanent fund dividend helps them throughout the year. The
permanent fund needs to go back to the people.
6:24:35 PM
DAWN BARNARD, representing herself, Talkeetna, spoke in support
of SB 23 and SB 24 to have the PFD paid back to Alaskans.
6:25:08 PM
TAMARA SCHMIDT, representing herself, Talkeetna, said she is a
life-long Alaskan. The state needs to live within its means just
as the people do, she said. She spoke in support of SB 23 and SB
24.
6:25:46 PM
LYNN WILLIS, representing himself, Eagle River, stated that this
is going to cost $1 billion. He suggested taking it from another
source of revenue. He asked whether the legislature thinks it
can afford to pay out $1 billion. He suggested a needs-based
dividend for the poor if needed. In response to Chair Hughes, he
answered that he supports SB 23 and SB 24 if the state can
afford it.
6:27:03 PM
DAVID OTNESS, representing himself, Cordova, spoke in support of
SB 23, but now is not the time for it. He said that the state is
being pressured to make rash decisions without understanding the
long-term consequences. He worked hard to help establish the
permanent fund in the 70s. It should be sustained for the
future. He said he would love to see a state bank or other means
to sustain the fund.
6:29:08 PM
MICHELLE HAHN, representing herself, Cordova, said she is a 46-
year resident. She spoke against SB 23 and SB 24 because it
would devastate the economy. She once supported the full
statutory permanent fund dividend, but it was during the time
when the state had $14 billion in the state's savings account.
Governor Dunleavy made promises without consequences. She
recalled promises that were made about maintaining services.
6:30:27 PM
JEFF GUARD, representing himself, Cordova, spoke against SB 23
and SB 24 because it will destroy the state's economy and
property values will be diminished. He said that there would not
be anyone to manage the fisheries. He said that there are costs
for government to supply services the public needs and help
maintain a vibrant economy. He said he expects the Senate to
ensure that state projects are funded.
6:31:58 PM
MARIA BYFORD, representing herself, Wrangell, spoke in
opposition to SB 23 and SB 24. She did not support the
governor's proposal to repay the PFDs for the last three years.
The money would be better spent to provide pre-K-12 education,
the university system, and work for future programs. She further
thought it was important to keep transportation and
communication alive via the public radio and ferry system. She
also supported funding for Medicaid expansion to keep people
healthy and to provide treatment for opioid addiction. Finally,
she stressed the importance of maintaining the permanent fund
for the future.
6:33:12 PM
SUSAN STEVENS, Member, Wrangell Tlingit & Haida, Wrangell, spoke
in support of SB 23 and SB 24 because it provides cash for the
village economies since the PFD provides a bigger percentage of
income to Native people. They lag behind every social need in
the communities and this money would really help. She said the
land was Native land initially.
6:34:33 PM
PAT HOLMES, representing himself, Kodiak, spoke in opposition to
SB 23 and SB 24. He said that it comes down to "Me first now or
we for the long run." He said that he would say no to both. He
and his wife consulted on their taxes and a $3,000 PFD would put
them into a different tax bracket. He said that low income
residents are also pushed up. He said that people should think
about it before they push for "me first." It's a payoff for
votes, he said.
6:35:47 PM
LARRY BEACH, representing himself, Wasilla, spoke in support of
SB 23 and SB 24.
6:36:20 PM
JIM SWISHER, representing himself, Wasilla, spoke in support of
SB 23 and SB 24. He lived in rural Alaska for 17 years, so he
understands the importance of the permanent fund dividend to
rural Alaskans.
6:37:29 PM
SHERYL SMITH, representing herself, Wasilla, spoke in support of
SB 23 and SB 24. She acknowledged that the courts need to be
funded but at the same time some people in the Mat-Su Valley
rely on the PFD for energy costs, including fuel to run the
generator for people who live off the grid.
6:38:40 PM
JACK JOHNSON, representing himself, North Pole, spoke in support
of SB 23 and SB 24. He asked members whether the permanent fund
was used to fund government four or five years ago. He believed
not. Therefore, there should not be a question about using the
funds now. He would like people to have more access to testify.
He noted that he was on hold for 49 minutes.
6:40:35 PM
BARBARA SEYBOLB, representing herself, Eagle River, spoke in
support of restoring the permanent fund dividend. She said that
the government was taking it away without any input. She
preferred a partnership relationship instead of the government
telling people what they will do. She supported having the
permanent fund dividend stay the way it was set up and letting
the public vote on changes. She said the legislature should
follow the law and care about the people.
6:41:41 PM
LARRY CHRISTENSEN, representing himself, Soldotna, spoke in
support of SB 23 and SB 24. He said he has lived in Alaska since
1991. He has observed the government taking over. The state
should not have taken away the permanent fund dividend without
giving the people an opportunity to vote. He said he must pay
for things that the dividend previously covered.
6:42:56 PM
FAYE SARREN, representing herself, Anchorage, spoke in support
of SB 23 and SB 24. She said that legislators spend the money
unwisely, which makes people angry. Now they have taken the
dividend away and it makes people even angrier. She would like
the legislature to repay the permanent fund dividends.
6:44:28 PM
MICHAEL BECK, representing himself, Wasilla, spoke in support of
SB 23. The permanent fund dividend needs to be given back to the
people. There are lots of elderly and disabled people who need
it and the money goes into the economy and helps keep costs
down. The government needs to live within its means.
6:45:09 PM
GREGORY WHITE, representing himself, Anchorage, spoke in support
of SB 23 and SB 24. He said he does not support government using
the permanent fund to fund the budget. He emphasized the need to
restore the full permanent fund dividend.
6:46:28 PM
SHEILA FAIGE, representing herself, Wasilla, spoke in support of
SB 23 and SB 24. She said that her husband lost his job in 2016,
just as Governor Walker decided to take their money, [the
permanent fund dividend]. She had to file for bankruptcy. She
needs the PFD to cover expenses, she said.
6:47:25 PM
OLIVIA SELLERS, representing herself, Wasilla, spoke in support
of SB 23 and SB 24. She has lived in Alaska for over 20 years.
When the permanent fund was created it was not intended to be
used for the budget. She expressed concern for those who rely on
the permanent fund dividend, such as seniors who are on fixed
income and need food and fuel, and for young families and single
families who rely on the permanent fund dividend to boost their
income. She would like government to balance the budget just as
citizens must.
6:48:38 PM
ELISPAPETA SHECK, representing himself, Anchorage, spoke in
support of SB 23 and SB 24. He said he thinks that government is
too big. He said that the legislature should follow the
constitution.
6:51:23 PM
HERMAN MORGAN, representing himself, Aniak, spoke in support of
SB 23 and SB 24. He said that the money was taken from people,
which for a family of five would have been $75,000 in the three
years. This money would be spent on snow machines and to pay for
medical bills. He expressed concern that the state will go
bankrupt.
6:53:07 PM
VIKKI JO KENNEDY, representing herself, Kodiak, spoke in support
of SB 23 and SB 24 because the permanent fund dividend was
illegally taken. She said she was out of state for those three
years. She urged members to stop spending wildly.
6:54:29 PM
JEFF MAY, representing himself, Wasilla, spoke in support of SB
23 and SB 24. He said that he is a 25-year resident of Wasilla.
He said the arguments presented tonight speak for themselves.
6:55:04 PM
SABRINA MARTINO, representing herself, Wasilla, spoke in support
of SB 23 and SB 24. She said she supports the governor's efforts
to make a sustainable budget, and that spending should be cut.
She does not think the permanent fund dividend should have been
taken in the first place. The government spending is increasing
at a [disproportionate] rate to inflation and the population
growth in Alaska.
6:55:48 PM
LILA JENSEN, representing herself, Anchorage, spoke in support
of SB 23 because a lot of elders depend on the money. She said
she is a lifelong Alaskan and mother of five. She said that her
family relies on the permanent fund dividend to buy winter
clothes. The permanent fund dividend is supposed to be
permanent, she said. She expressed concern that her children
will not be able to benefit from the program because the money
will be gone.
6:57:22 PM
FEDERICK TRIESELMANN, representing himself, Homer, spoke in
opposition to SB 23 and SB 24 because it is a ploy to garner
votes and good will. He said that the payback timeline falls in
line with the election. It would provide a means to buy votes
while gutting state services, like the state ferry system and
education, he said.
6:58:28 PM
LINN MCCABE, representing herself, Big Lake, spoke in support of
SB 23 and SB 24. She said she supports using the original
formula to calculate the permanent fund dividend and it should
not be changed. The permanent fund dividend is the people's
money and should not be used for funding government without a
vote by the people. She urged members to create a sustainable
budget and not use the PFD to continue bloated spending. She
said the legislature should not create any new taxes.
6:58:55 PM
SENATOR SHOWER joined the meeting.
6:59:51 PM
SENATOR MICCICHE said the sound quality is very poor. He asked
testifiers to indicate whether they support or oppose the bills.
7:00:30 PM
ARMANDO HERNANDEZ, representing himself, Anchorage, spoke in
support of SB 23 and SB 24. He said that the PFD belongs to the
people and the state cannot steal it. He works in construction
at the state office building. He expressed alarm at the high
price of doors and other construction needs. The state needs to
stop spending that amount of money. He said, "Give us our money
back. Period."
7:01:21 PM
CHAIR HUGHES reminded testifiers they can submit written
testimony to [email protected]
7:01:49 PM
LEIGH SLOAN, representing herself, Anchorage, spoke in support
of SB 23.
JAKE SLOAN, representing himself, Anchorage, spoke in support of
SB 23 and SB 24. He said that the permanent fund dividend was
attached without a vote of the people. He said, "That's a wrong
that needs to be righted."
7:02:43 PM
ELIZABETH SWEET, representing herself, North Pole, spoke in
support of SB 23 and SB 24 because she counts on that money to
pay her bills.
7:03:14 PM
MARK SWSLER, representing himself, Soldotna, spoke in support of
SB 23 and SB 24. He asked when the legislature will start
cutting the government. He expressed concern that the
legislature would continue to take more and more of the
permanent fund dividend. He offered his belief that those
testifying in opposition to the bills were educators or
government workers. He favored privatizing the Alaska Marine
Highway System.
7:04:31 PM
DAVID DENZINE, representing himself, Kasilof, spoke in support
of SB 23 and SB 24. He said that government needs to live within
its means. He said he would like stricter law enforcement. He
thinks that the social services need to be cut. He said he is a
retired Vietnam veteran. The schools need to be consolidated, he
said. People should spend their money wisely instead of [relying
on] the government.
7:05:43 PM
WENDY MORALES, representing herself, Anchorage, spoke in support
of SB 23 and SB 24. She disagreed with how the permanent fund
dividend was taken because the public should have voted on it.
She said that the right thing to do is repay the permanent fund
dividends. She has a family of five and she depends on the money
to pay important bills.
7:06:29 PM
ANDREW HAAG, representing himself, Talkeetna, spoke in support
of SB 23 and SB 24. He said he is a 20-year Alaskan. The
permanent fund dividend was established in exchange for mineral
rights. He said just as he has to reduce costs, government
should balance the budget. He supported repaying the permanent
fund dividends.
7:07:42 PM
SHARRY EICHENLAUB, representing herself, Eagle River, spoke in
support of SB 23 and SB 24. She supported cutting the budget.
She expressed concern that funding for education is too high in
Alaska.
7:09:21 PM
JAMES SQUYRES, representing himself, Rural Deltana, spoke in
support of SB 23 and SB 24. He said he is a certified public
accountant by profession. He said that he supports a full
permanent fund dividend to restore the public's trust. He said
that the unpaid permanent fund dividends belong to individual
Alaskans and not to the earnings reserve account. He offered his
belief that an error occurred. He said that not paying back the
PFDs would cover up the errors made and set precedent to what
amounts to a crime. The earnings reserve account has enjoyed
investment returns from these "parked" funds. This has benefited
the state. The state will come out ahead once the payback occurs
over the three-year timeline, he said.
7:10:36 PM
NORMAN CLARK, representing himself, Kotzebue, spoke in support
of SB 23 and SB 24. He said he is a Native Alaskan. He expressed
concern that people move to Alaska to get the permanent fund
dividend, but Alaskans do not move to their states to receive
benefits. He offered his belief that these funds belong to
Alaskans.
7:11:53 PM
MIKE COONS, President, Greater Alaskan Chapter, Association of
Mature Citizens (AMAC), Palmer, spoke in support of SB 23 and SB
24. He said that the people were robbed by Governor Walker and
the legislature. "The time is now to give back what was stolen
from us and ensure it never happens again," he said. He said
that this money will have a huge impact on the economy. He
recalled that the Institute of Social and Economic Research
(Institute of Social and Economic Research) said that every
[PFD] dollar creates six dollars. He said that those who are
opposed to these bills can apply for the dividend and give it
back via the "Pick.Click.Give." program or write a check to the
State of Alaska.
7:13:04 PM
PAMELA SAMASH, representing herself, Nenana, spoke in support of
SB 23 and SB 24. She said that families benefit from the PFD and
spending their PFDs benefits their communities. She offered a
suggestion how the state could become more independent of
government. "Don't ask what your country can do for you, but
what you can do for your country," she said.
7:14:07 PM
TIMOTHY MARTIN, representing himself, Sterling, spoke in support
of SB 23 and SB 24 because the permanent fund dividend helps him
provide health care for himself, his wife, and his grandchild.
The PFD helps supplement their budget. The permanent fund
dividend helps his small business. He favored cutting the budget
and providing a better education for our children. He said he
favors having the public and the government working together on
these issues.
7:15:19 PM
VALERIE BECK, representing herself, Wasilla, spoke in support of
SB 23 and SB 24. She believes that the PFDs should be restored.
The PFDs were taken without giving the public an opportunity to
weigh in on the matter. She thinks that government has been
wasting money and now it wants to take the permanent fund
dividend to fix its problems. She said that she works with a lot
of elderly people in the Mat-Su valley. She offered her belief
that many of these people rely on the permanent fund dividend to
provide money for their medications, treatments, utilities, and
other basic needs.
7:17:06 PM
SUSAN FLETCHER, representing herself, Big Lake, spoke in support
of SB 23 and SB 24. She said she is a member of the social media
group, "Save the PFD." She said that families who live off the
grid rely on their PFDs.
7:18:07 PM
CHAIR HUGHES reiterated that people can submit testimony in
writing to [email protected].
7:18:29 PM
ADAM CARDWELL, representing himself, Willow, spoke in support of
SB 23 and SB 24. He said that most of his neighbors depend on
the money that the permanent fund dividend provides. When the
permanent fund dividend was taken it made their lives difficult.
He said that he is disabled and losing his PFD made his life
much harder. He offered his belief that state employees make
almost double what other people make. The budget needs to be
dealt with, people need to be paid a fair wage, and quit giving
oil and mining industries a break, he said.
7:19:43 PM
SUSAN CARLSON, representing herself, Willow, spoke in support of
SB 23 and SB 24. She said that the schools and government need
to be more accountable for their funds. She urged government to
budget just as the people must budget.
7:20:31 PM
DEBRA JOHNSTON, representing herself, Anchorage, spoke in
support of SB 23 and SB 24. She said that the PFD was never
meant to support the state budget. The split [between funding
the government and funding the PFD] was set at 50:50 and it
should remain at that rate. She urged members to repay the PFDs.
She said that Alaskans must live within their means. She also
asked members to review the school budgets to determine where
that money is being spent.
7:21:29 PM
KEN BROWN, representing himself, Soldotna, spoke in support of
SB 23 and SB 24. He said that the money belongs to the people
and to the private sector.
7:21:58 PM
DAVID STAMPER, representing himself, Wasilla, spoke in support
of SB 23 and SB 24. He said that elderly people need this money.
He said that having the permanent fund dividends cut caused him
to be homeless for two years. He said he thinks about the people
who need the PFDs.
7:22:57 PM
CHRISTINE HUTCHINSON, representing herself, Kenai, spoke in
support of SB 23 and SB 24 and SJR 4. She said that her
testimony was cut off during her testimony on SJR 4. She offered
her belief that the state must maintain the rule of law. She
said that Governor Walker cut the PFD contrary to the law, so it
needs to be restored. She urged members to get spending in line
with revenue. She supported the governor's approach to
restructuring the budget. She said she is not an economist, but
the end is coming. The budget must be cut if Alaska is to
survive.
7:24:22 PM
ROSE GEISERT, representing herself, Wasilla, spoke in support of
SB 23 and SB 24. She said the government should give us back our
PFDs because it was taken without permission or a vote. She said
that the permanent fund dividends provide the money for the
things they need. The permanent fund dividend was meant for the
people, she said.
AARON BENJAMIN, representing himself, Talkeetna, said he is a
42-year resident. He spoke in support of SB 23 and SB 24. He
said that no matter what a person's economic condition is that
this is not an entitlement, but a right for Alaska's citizens.
He said that Alaskans have lost their mineral rights and at
least the people are getting something for it. He suggested the
legislators should be criminally prosecuted for theft.
7:25:56 PM
DIXIE BANNER, representing herself, Wasilla, spoke in support of
SB 23 and SB 24. She said that the people demand the legislature
cut the budget. She said that citizens expect them to listen and
not do as they please. Legislators are not above the law and are
employees of the people. She agreed with the testifier who said
they committed treason and should be prosecuted. She would like
a constitutional budget.
7:26:59 PM
MARY CONSTANTINE, representing herself, Fairbanks, spoke in
support of SB 23 and SB 24. The rural Alaska economy is a
subsistence economy and rural villages depend on the dividend to
pay bills and buy merchandise like chainsaws, snow machines,
fish nets, boats and motors.
7:28:11 PM
GEORGE PAUL, representing himself, Wasilla, spoke in support of
SB 23 and SB 24. He suggested that the committee consider an
amendment to add the "Pick.Click.Give." option to departments so
people who do not wish to receive their PFD can give them to the
departments.
7:29:12 PM
HOLLIE BENSON, representing herself, Fairbanks, spoke in support
of SB 23 and SB 24. She said that she supports Governor
Dunleavy's plan. She does not believe that funds should be moved
and used for another purpose. She is a third generation Alaskan.
The PFD is unique to Alaska and shows that Alaska cares about
their elders and that Alaska invests in its future. She
characterized taking the PFD as taxation without representation,
as unconstitutional, and going against Alaska's laws.
7:30:18 PM
PATRICK MARTIN, representing himself, Wasilla, spoke in support
of SB 23 and SB 24. He said he is a 47-year resident of Alaska.
He said he was grateful that Governor Dunleavy is strong enough
to speak for the people. The government has overspent in every
respect and the [budget] needs to be cut. The permanent fund was
created for the people by Governor Hammond, who was a
homesteader, but not many people remember that.
7:32:01 PM
SALLY JOHNSON, representing herself, Palmer, spoke in support of
SB 23 and SB 24. She said that Governor Dunleavy speaks for
every Alaskan. She said, "We need to trim government spending."
7:32:39 PM
RYNN BURTON, representing herself, Anchorage, spoke in support
of SB 23 and SB 24. It was illegal to take the permanent fund
dividend. He said that people who live a subsistence lifestyle
and those with disabilities are dependent on the permanent fund
dividends to pay medical costs and other items to survive. He
supported balancing the budget and repaying the back permanent
fund dividend.
7:33:58 PM
SENATOR MICCICHE joined the meeting.
7:34:06 PM
RONALD VAIDAUS, representing himself, Kasilof, spoke in support
of SB 23 and SB 24. He said that the people elected Governor
[Dunleavy] to cut the budget, protect taxpayers, and restore the
permanent fund dividend.
7:35:19 PM
MELODY MCCULLOUGH, representing herself, Wasilla, spoke in
support of SB 23 and SB 24. She said that Alaskans are owed the
permanent fund dividend. It does not belong to the government
because the government got its share. She said that the state
needs to cap government spending and learn how to budget. She
said that she is raising two grandchildren. Her husband works in
an industry that Governor Dunleavy would like to bring to the
state for more revenue. The PFD means a lot to her family and a
portion goes to her oldest grandchild's college fund, she said.
7:36:55 PM
MIKE WHITNEY, representing himself, Big Lake, spoke in support
of SB 23 and SB 24. He said he is the chair of the "Save the
PFD" group. He said he cannot improve on the earlier testimony
given by many Alaskans. He offered his belief that it is
despicable that politicians will do this. Every politician knows
that money is not to be on the table in this discussion and
should go to a vote of the people. We intend to fire those
[legislators] who are trying to steal from the people of Alaska.
7:38:06 PM
LORENZO DELEON, representing himself, Valdez, spoke in support
of SB 23 and SB 24. He said that people in Valdez use the
permanent fund dividend to catch up on their bills and pay fuel
oil costs. He said the government needs to be pared down. He
suggested getting rid of unnecessary government. He offered his
belief that the capital should be moved from Juneau to Anchorage
or Wasilla to save money.
7:39:03 PM
DEBORAH HOLLAND, representing herself, Anchorage, spoke in
support of SB 23 and SB 24 and SJR 4. She said she found it
disconcerting that Alaskans are not being helped by their
legislators. She supported restoring funds that were stolen by
the previous governor. She said that the state faces a national
disaster and it seemed to her that such a disaster would shake
funding from the legislature. She said that some people cannot
live in their homes. She asked members to do the right thing.
7:40:26 PM
KRISTA BURTON, representing herself, Anchorage, spoke in support
of SB 23 and SB 24. She supports Alaska cutting spending. She
said it is ridiculous to take the money away from the people.
She suggested that the Alaska National Wildlife Refuge could be
opened to put people to work.
7:41:29 PM
EDWARD ZINGONE, representing himself, Anchorage, spoke in
support of SB 23 and SB 24. She said that the permanent fund
dividend was implemented incorrectly by Governor Walker and the
previous legislature did not have the courage to call him out on
it. He said that [taking the permanent fund dividend]
implemented a regressive tax that took money from the poor and
from families. He said his family of seven are all life-long
Alaskans. He said that it has taken over $15,000 from his family
in the last two years. He would like to have the money restored.
He said the permanent fund dividend is being used for college.
He said that most of his children attend private schools, so he
is not receiving any benefits from the state education system.
7:42:43 PM
CHAIR HUGHES after first determining no one wished to testify,
closed public testimony on SB 23 and SB 24.
7:43:42 PM
SENATOR MICCICHE said that he appreciated Alaskans calling in.
7:44:09 PM
CHAIR HUGHES said that the committee took testimony from
everyone except for those who experienced technical issues. She
said that the public is welcome to submit written testimony to
[email protected].
7:44:35 PM
SENATOR MICCICHE moved to report CSSB 23(STA), work order 31-
GS1014\M, from committee with individual recommendations [and
attached fiscal note(s)]. There being no objection, CSSB 23(STA)
was reported from the Senate Judiciary Standing Committee.
7:45:04 PM
SENATOR MICCICHE moved to report CSSB 24(STA), work order 31-
GS1013\M, from committee with individual recommendations and
attached fiscal note.
SENATOR KIEHL objected.
7:45:28 PM
SENATOR KIEHL said that these bills got a referral to the Senate
Judiciary Standing Committee to examine a specific
constitutional issue. He expressed appreciation for the
testimony of the Alaskans who spoke tonight. Most of the
testimony was on the broader policy issue, but it was the
constitutional issue that gives him pause. The way this bill is
put together it has a constitutional problem under the Alaska
Constitution and the U.S. Constitution, he said. It imposes a
series of waiting periods for applicants to obtain additional
payments. As one testifier pointed out SB 24 would create a two-
year residency requirement to qualify for each payment. It would
also create a waiting period in between, which makes it very
difficult for Alaskans to exercise their right to travel and to
live in another state, if need be, as Americans.
He said that when the committee held discussions with several
attorneys about the issue, he was struck with the question about
how the courts might look at this and what test they might apply
and the connection back to the [Zobel v. Williams] case. In that
case, the courts said it is not necessary to look at whether a
rational or compelling basis since "you didn't get anywhere, you
didn't even get to the first test. It's not a question of who
won the race. Nobody's at the starting line." He offered his
belief that this strange approach of a multi-year, stepwise,
two-year residency waiting period eligibility.
SENATOR KIEHL recalled the committee talked through more
fiscally efficient ways to provide the extra permanent fund
dividend funding. The committee further discussed more efficient
ways from an administrative standpoint to do this. However, no
one got us to a rational basis for this structure that imposes
these additional burdens on Alaskans' constitutional rights, he
said. He restated objection to the way the bill is put together
since he does not see a viable constitutional way to use this
structure. He acknowledged that other ways could be used, but
the structure of this bill does not meet the test.
7:48:14 PM
SENATOR MICCICHE said he is convinced of the opposite view. He
said the best comparison is Harris v. Hahn. A Texas law provided
free tuition to veterans to attend state public universities if
the resident had either enlisted in Texas or was a resident of
Texas at the time the individual enlisted. He said that could
apply to a benefit that could go for many years. He said that
was the comparison that was made. He said, "I don't think it has
any comparison to the Zobel decision. I like the basis. I like
how the three years track each other, remembering the fact that
the PFD is designed for Alaska residents." He said he thinks
that is the right approach and he appreciated the administration
taking that approach in this bill. He concluded that he has a
different point of view. He stated that he was not going to
emphatically say that [his argument] proves it beyond a "shadow
of a doubt." However, he said that he follows this rational
basis and he believed it was the same approach that is in SB 23
and SB 24. Therefore, he said he supports the approach taken in
the bills.
7:49:52 PM
CHAIR HUGHES remarked that the Texas case is significant and
relevant. She said, "I don't see it as a waiting period when a
person can leave and has the freedom to travel in between. It is
very different than having to wait in state."
7:50:11 PM
SENATOR KIEHL maintained his objection.
7:50:16 PM
A roll call vote was taken. Senators Micciche, Shower, and
Hughes voted in favor of moving CSSB 24(STA), work order 31-
GS1013\M from committee and Senator Kiehl voted against it.
Therefore, the CSSB 24 (STA) was reported from committee by a
3:1 vote.
| Document Name | Date/Time | Subjects |
|---|---|---|
| SB0023B.PDF |
SJUD 3/27/2019 6:00:00 PM |
SB 23 |
| SB 23 TL - Senate President.pdf |
SJUD 3/27/2019 6:00:00 PM |
SB 23 |
| CS SB23 Sectional.pdf |
SJUD 3/27/2019 6:00:00 PM |
SB 23 |
| SB0024B.PDF |
SJUD 3/27/2019 6:00:00 PM |
SB 24 |
| SB 24 TL - Senate President.pdf |
SJUD 3/27/2019 6:00:00 PM |
SB 24 |
| CS SB24 Sectional.pdf |
SJUD 3/27/2019 6:00:00 PM |
SB 24 |
| SB0024-1-2-011619-REV-Y.PDF |
SJUD 3/27/2019 6:00:00 PM |
SB 24 |